/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12207605
The surplus population either revolts or dies out.

>>12207692
This

Alternatively an equilibrium state is reached where the rich can't get richer because the poor only have enough to not revolt

Labour produces wealth, as long as there is a Labour supply there will be wealth generation.

>>12207721
Not a nash equilibrium unfortunately

>>12207605
>all the wealth etc
It doesn't. It's a pareto distribution.

>>12207605
If the rich are hoarding lots of money for it to be problematic how come our money is not worth more if supposedly there isn't much of it in circulation?

>>12207605
https://youtu.be/BUu8u7fX8Pc

>>12207605
Wealth is created. You can't just run out of it unless everyone decides to just stop doing anything.

>>12207605
We may be entering a stage where the owners of capital no longer need 99% of the population as labor inputs. Everything automatable will be automated, leaving 'work' only for high-end engineers and the like. That's when things get ugly.

>>12207750
The Central Banks of the world issue new money to Mega Corps every quarter. The wealth you would have been able to use is effectively transferred from your savings and assets to the savings, assets and production lines of the Mega Corps. The power to issue currency is the secret power of the Elite and the Kings. It is illegal for you to issue currency but legal for them or the Central Bank. Whoever controls the issuance of currency, controls all wealth in his territory.

>>12207741
Why not?

>>12207750
They generally aren't hoarding it but are instead putting it back into the financial system in the form of investments. So that money is not cash but an equivalent value of debt and equity securities.
Also, even money that is bank deposits is not immobile in the economy as the bank will write loans to others against those deposits.

>>12207728
when there is no labour left to do because robots do everything, what happens

>>12207821
>They generally aren't hoarding it but are instead putting it back into the financial system in the form of investments.
They aren't investing, though. Businesses can't operate in the absence of demand. Investing in them becomes pointless. The rich end up trading assets back and forth amongst themselves, with no stimulative impact on the real economy.

>>12207605
>What happens next?

Either transhumanist utopia or extinction. Either way, it is capitalism all the way there because all other "systems" are just memes.

>>12207728
>Labour produces wealth.

retarded marxists

>>12207905
art revolution

>>12207605
Corporate psychopats will stsrt having a bad time once they run out of suckers to exploit.

>>12207937
No. A rebellion will come when people adopt more rational morals that prevent explitation. It has hapoened before.

>>12207605
Altruism

>>12207905
The robots will still do labor, sperg
The question then becomes where does the wealth they produce go

More or less this >>12207692

>1% eventually get immortality and sentient robots that do everything self-efficiently.
>The news network still portray the 1% as self-made men.
>The 99% keep fighting against taxes anyone because someday they'll be rich themselves.
>In due time, the 1% who created reserves for the 99% they like decide to upload them to take less space.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E

>>12207605
> All the wealth goes in one direction
towards niggers and women?

>>12207605
Global ecological collapse.

>>12208032
What makes you think that'll ever happen?

>>12207605
The rich get richer, but so do the poor motherfuckers. Everybody gets richer, at different rates.

>>12207605
I have exactly 0.6 pound of gold and 23 pounds of silver vacuum sealed and buried 5 feet underground.

COME AT ME IRS YOU FUCKING DOGS

>>12207605
The biggest game of high intensity musical chairs since Game of Thrones anon. Except the losers will definitely die.

>>12208696
adjusted for inflation?

>>12208729
ARE YOU INSANE?

>>12208220
yes.
wealth is the creation of value.

value is overwhelmingly created by white men, through invention, construction, industry and engineering.

however, women are the biggest spenders in households, and minorities recieve massive subsedies from western states.

>>12207721
You better pray robotics, automation and AI haven't advanced to a sufficent level by then...

>>12207949
Has nothing to do with marxism. Has to do with classical liberalism.

>>12208634
Game theory. The simulations always go: nice players->psychos->nice, but vengenceful.
The nice players get the highest advantage, but they can easily get exploited by psychopaths, but once the nice players are gone, the psychopaths start ruining each other, and the nice but vengeanceful win, which are a little bit worse off than the nice ones, but are not vulnerable to the psychopaths.

>>12208696
Your picture clearly show only the top quintile get richer, the rate difference is pretty important since the advantage grow exponentially, and the top 1% wouldn't appear on this chart anymore.
Oh I can't wait future plutocrat to tell us we should be happy to not live like medieval peasant and shouldn't ask for part of "their" money, money they got from the work of others and use to shape the world as they wish, excluding poor people thanks to the power of ownership.

>>12207605
It keeps going lol. There is no end state and never will be. Capitalism has never lead to collapse. The worst that it has lead to is a few slightly poorer years every half century or so.
Sure, it'll change over time but so does everything. Capitalism isn't a zero or negative sum game, it only ever gets better.

>>12208762
I am completely insane.

>>12208961
are you blind or deliberately retarded?

>>12208976
Are you delusional?
Bottom stay the same.

>>12208982
Here's a better graph 4u

>>12208982
And here's the real income growth since 1967

>>12208964
Exactly this. Capitalism is reality. All else is ideology.

>>12209055
Again, the bottom quintile might as well not have improved since the cost of life in typically increase just as much. Capitalism is all about making as much money as you can from consumer even if your working cost didn't rise as much.
So saying
>Everybody gets richer
Is like the Donald saying "Covid is no problem" after receiving treatment quality that millions won't get.

So unless someone invent a 1$ pill that make you immortal and godlike, the wealth difference will keep getting less and less fair.

>>12209482
Nobody's supposed to care about that bottom quintile. Work your ass off and provide value for other people so that others are willing to pay you for said value. If you can't or won't do that, then you're a parasite by definition and you deserve death by poverty or death by cop.

>>12207605
>What happens next?
Human progress like never seen before with the advent of anarchocapitalism

>>12207605

When all the wealth goes in one direction, that wealth becomes useless since the market price of their assets becomes 0 since no one can afford to buy it. The open market thrives when society has money and spends it. So the eventual fate is that it is continuous.

>>12207922
>the real economy.
lol

it's poor people wanting free money who use this word.

>>12209482
>Is like the Donald saying "Covid is no problem" after receiving treatment quality that millions won't get.
covids death rate has been bottomed out for months, if youre going to make an irrelevant point, then make a good one

>>12207605
First Capitalism does not exist.
The dichotomy left-right is inherently humanistic, since it is what the judeo crhistian bourgeois created in the Parliament of their republics. They put the monarchists on the right and the secular humanists on the left

you see thus that being right wing in a the republic just means monarchist, but now that the humanists killed any political power of the theists, the right is still socialist but dubbed ''right'' and the left is still socialism but dubbed ''left''

There is no difference between left and right in a humanistic republic.The only which changes is the symbols tied to each group.
The underlying basis does not change.
The underlying basis of the republic is the constitution about the Human rights. These rights are the jewel of the judeo chrisitans.

Now the subtle point is that leftists and rightists are okay with that. All what matters for the judeo christian bourgeois is that theists do not take power again. And this happens exactly by giving the illusion to the midwits like you that left and right are separate doctrinally.
So the plebs can vote one time for the left, then they see that the bourgeois ruling class does XYZ, then the plebs whine that the ruling class is not doing what they promised during the campaign, then the next election the plebs swing to the rightists, which is exactly the same people.

Thus there is no ''capitalism'' or anticapitalism.
What there is the Humanist Republic, the dogma of their Human Rights .
This is what capitalism is in its entirety.

Second capitalism cannot be destroyed without destroying the republic and its dogmas. This is what liberals hate to hear.

Third capitalism cannot be destroyed because by the dogma of the Human Rights, any doctrine is turned into a bulk of opinions, which are always shat on if the humanists see it as anti Human rights.
The doctrines which are the most appealing to those people are commodified and capitalism remains unaltered.

>>12210484

This is why btw all the motto and slogans in the humanist elections are always about ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''change'''''''''''''''''''''''''''
the only thing that does not change is exactly the fake symbols made up by the bourgeois about their political dichotomy.

The most important thing for the bourgeois is that the plebs really believe that the rulling class will stop the bourgeoisie after any election.


This is part of the fantasy of the humanist of the '''''''''''''''''perpetual revolution''''''''''''. T'hose people live on their laurels of doing revolution over and over, fighting the cops int he streets as part of the humanistic ritualistic baptism, because killing theist Christians is the only thing they did in their entire history and they only live for this.
but now that theists are destroyed, they have nothing left to do and get bored, so they try to find new topics to ''''''''''''revolutionize'''''''''''''' and just say cops are evil.

>>12207750
You make a valid point. Why don't we mark every circulating dollar with red paint and have that be the "commoner pool money" so goods are only exchanged with marked dollars while the richfag digital money loses value from sitting down?

>>12207764
What's the incentive to work if pepople are already working for peas while lifestyle costs ever more because of inflation? Recession comes and the rich become richer and the poor become poorer, money is printed and now the value of work is worth even less. What incentive is there to keep working, and how will the worker be allowed to sustain himself if all land is privately owned?

>>12207821
An investment implies debt. They ARE hoarding it by making it circulate in a luxury pool where elite servants create elite commodities for the rich, these elite servants also spend money in similar high end pools, little of the money goes back to the farmer who sustains the whole chain. However, whenever someone makes an investment, they are essentially buying debt. If the investment is successful it will go to themselves, if the investment is not successful it goes into an unsustainable project in which the labor of the workers isn't able to be put in use, think of a faulty building that must be demolished because it was built in inappropriate ground. Now, the money doesn't lose value, but as it changes hands it turns the subsequent labor more expensive, which implies the money keeps flowing back up.

>>12210469
The real economy is where goods produced are useful to actual existing persons, not numbers going up and down in a screen.

>>12208036
When the rebellion comes and wealth goes back above the threshold, corruption will ensue again and a new capitalism will be born to become extinct and start yet a new rebellion.

>>12208696
>at different rates

>>12209505
Have you ever told a nigger that? Go ahead and say it to his face, faggot. Tell him he deserves to die, bring a cop with you if you want.

>>12207605
Nothing, while mankind doesn't reach a godlike status, capitalism will be the main drive of society.

>>12208964

This. Commies have been predicting the inevitable end of capitalism since the days of Marx.

As long as there is scarcity, capitalism will be here with us. For post-scarcity you need abundant energy (fusion), abundant resources (asteroid mining), abundant lebensraum (space colonization) and abundant artificial intelligence to tie it all together without requiring much human work (human-level or superhuman AI).

We are not there yet, and wont be for a long time.

>>12210547
>As long as there is scarcity, capitalism will be here with us.
And capitalists will make sure to create enough of it.

>>12210530
No. The change is far more fundamental than moving wealth between people.

>>12210469
The real economy means the production and consumption of goods and services.

>>12207605
There obviously needs to be a reset of sorts, I think part of the problem now is too much corporate welfare and not enough welfare for the ordinary people. The past year for example, governments have been pumping billions into companies and stocks in exchange for keeping jobs around, so value of the stock goes up. The majority of a billionaire's wealth is usually in stocks so as a result the billionaire gets richer, while the worker's wealth has stagnated or gotten worse due to inflation from printing money.

Another problem now is a lot of liberal governments are promising stuff like UBI, while simultaneously lowering taxes for corporations. So where is the money coming from? National debt and squeezing the individual dry, especially fucking future generations and the middle class.

We are never going to get full on socialism or communism until we at least get a proper slave/worker class. This can only happen with robotics/androids, which are still decades away. Then we will start seeing things like UBI, social housing, SNAP, etc becoming more common. Just the bare minimum to keep people content while the elite keep control as always.

Until then, I think we are going to get more and more twisted versions of capitalism with both state and mega-corporations working together to control people's lives, and fuck the individual and small businesses.

>>12208768
Actually white states receive massive subsidies from nonwhite states

>>12210991
>rhode island
white af

>>12207728
robots will replace all the workes
wut do?

>>12208087
to those who own them obviously

>>12210991
>2005
lol

>>12207605
you'll be able to sell your citizenship

>>12207605
>when it runs out
It doesn't. Not until the sun dies and stops putting energy into the system.

>>12209505
>Nobody's supposed to care about that bottom quintile. Work your ass off and provide value for other people so that others are willing to pay you for said value. If you can't or won't do that, then you're a parasite by definition and you deserve death by poverty or death by cop.
Say the anon, part of the 99% who will eventually be defined as a parasite by the 1% if he isn't already.
Sucking-up to superriches won't make you part of them, someday they'll consider you aren't providing enough value anymore and are already looking to replace you with someone they can pay less for the same job or ideally a robot.

Other retards like you will tell you to "get good", still oblivious to the fact the system is not meritocratic and geared against (You).

>>12211898
Bros...

What happens to people who don't have enough money to move through the percentiles? It's like having a car that ran out of gasoline, but it's still far from the gas station, what happens to those people?

>>12210529
numbers going up and down a screen are investments in said real economy dumbass

>>12212188
>Be rich piece of shit
>Buy toilet made of gold from Gold Toilet Maker inc.
>Gold Toilet Maker inc. CEO buys Gold Leaf Ice Cream from Gold Icecream co.
>Gold Icecream co. bought the milk to make icecream from the supermarket at $0.50 the litter
So, how did the average worker become richer from this exchange?

>>12212173
Are you answering the right post?
Also analogy are dangerous tools, I'm too afraid to touch that one.

>>12212252
You seem to have an interest in riches, actual shit and cow. So you may be interested by this bullshit.

>>12207605
>All the wealth flows in one direction
No it doesn't. Contrary to popular belief, wealth is created all the time, and everyone's wealth has overall been increasing along this whole time (minus recessions and crap). I mean air conditioners and TV's are luxuries meant only for the richest once upon a time. But yeah, the super wealthy always accumulate way more than the lower class. They have the capital to invest more than just their personal time and effort.

I mean the easiest argument really to dismantle the OP post is "paychecks" or "welfare"

>>12212252
We're assuming they're not unpaid slaves?

>>12207605
Despite growing wealth inequality, you are richer than your parents in absolute terms. Particularly in access to affordable technology. It's like getting a thinner slice of the pie but the pie is still bigger.

Houses are more expensive, but that's because of energy and safety regulations + scarcity of materials. Also land is more expensive because there are more people, flying real estate values accounts for a lot of inequality. You can't blame capitalism for this, well except maybe if people starved there would be less people in the market for real estate.

>>12208087
Robots don't do labor, they do work. Robots are not given any wages and cannot bargain with their employer about those wages.

>>12212173
A whole lot of tough shit is what happens, anon. Do you not get that yet. Oh, but get this: The same "Leftists" who publish and slobber over the Holingsworth Hound comics are lead by ultra rich elitists and guess which religion you find a lot of at the highest levels? That's right. Judaism. So why are all their villains white Gentile Christians? Because the Leftwing parties are not interested in lifting up common people like they say. They are interested in distracting from Jewish dominance of every cent you have ever used and every thing you see and hear. Education, entertainment, courts, cops, military, etc. The people making the decisions at the highest levels are either Jews or Good Goys who compete for who can serve the Jews the most. Getting ideas about supporting some Rightwing movement to help common white people out? Too bad. The highest levels of their movements are also run by the very Jews who may never be questioned. You can't name the highest level of society. The Elite of the elite. It is illegal to question their version of the Holocaust in many European countries. They are over represented in every major institution that has a say in how YOU and everyone lives their lives. But if you name them all the Good Goys act like you hit them below the belt. You need to start asking more questions about Jewish Authority.

>>12212389
Value is extracted from workers by Capitalists in the form of surplus value. This is where profits are derived from.
>I mean air conditioners and TV's are luxuries meant only for the richest once upon a time
This is due to gains in technology and productivity despite stagnation in real wages.