/sci/ - Science & Math

what does RP1 taste like bros?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQW_2qtBDfY

>>12187972
cherry

>>12187972
salty dinosaurs and milk

That timing

>>12187979
lemon-lime RP1 when

Jessie + Insprucker <3

>>12187982
like clockwork

S P A C E F O R C E

First for Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems > SpaceX

OmegA will rise again

>if you want to launch or GPS sat you have to play this recruitment /propaganda video

>>12187931
Just for you anon

I suffer with no mach diamonds in space bros....

>>12187979
forbidden punch

>>12187994
oh nvm, even more embarrassing, it was a LM ad

>>12187995
>/sfg/ launches first rocket

>>12187993
>two solid core stages with two SRBs
>oh and a small liquid third stage
OmegA was a giant flying shitpost and I want to see it fly at least once for that alone.

Still remember my dad calling me a faggot for liking rockets and space

>>12187979
wtf why is it so pretty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JESG7x0X0ek

>>12188005
My dad was programming for fun as kid so he can't call me a nerd about anything.

>>12187949
MY BRAVE KING HAS RETURNED
>>12187966
>image limit
too much image spamming going on, that's why launches get their own thread faggots (even I didn't notice the launch thread, I'm a faggot too)
>>12187466
>>12187466
>>12187466
>>12187466

>>12188005
he was right

I just realized Starship won't have kino boiloff plumes and smoke

>>12188007
1 min 15 sec

>>12188006
Forbidden kool-aid.

>>12187966
HERE WE GO, BOYS!

>>12188005
Faggot

>>12187982
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP5c_MEs9mo

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD

WOOOOOOSSHHHH

>>12188022
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH ABORT

ABORT

AAAAAAAAAAAH

SPACEX IS FINISHED

ITS OVER

Failcon None

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

YEAAAAAH OK

SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB
SCRUB
>SCRUB

ELON BTFO
ELON BTFO
ELON BTFO
ELON BTFO
NORTHROP CHADS UNITE

this is why we need a conservative supreme court to make aborts illegal again

>>12187993
I TOLD YOU

APOLOGIZE /SFG/

APOLOGIZE TO NGIS

APOLOGIZE TO THE ONLY LAUNCHING ROCKET IN THE WORLD

OH NO NO NO NO
WE GOT TOO COCKY MUSKBROS

Scrub :/

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ABORT

OLDSPACE WINS AGAIN

CYGNUS DABBING ON FALCON 9 FROM ORBIT

inb4 another GSE

Fuck this cursed ass shit.

OH NONONONONO

Northrop Grumman SHALL RISE AGAIN

ITS OVER ELON

WE HAVE THE HIGH GROUND NOW

w-what happened bros?

so what is the track record for launch scrubs recently?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

>scrubbed
Why?

A P O L O G I Z E

the virgin fancy webcast vs the chad broken polygons

>>12188067
Abort at T-2 and no time in the window to recycle the countdown.

what can cause a scrub at 2s? Did one of the flight controllers spill coffee on the abort button?

ScrubX

>>12188061
spacex finished
starship will be cancelled tomorrow
jeff will win the moon contract
starlink will be sold to the chinese
jim will be fired

It’s all so tiresome

>>12188061

>SCRUBBED
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>12188003
>OmegA was a giant flying shitpost and I want to see it fly at least once for that alone.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I wanted to see Northrop and BO win this so they could out-autism each other.

>>12188081
not this time

>>12188070
You were always a kino system and I hope you continue flying new payloads after cygnus.

>>12188070
N O

NORTHTROP GRUMMAN- 1
SPACEX - 0
ULA - 0

>>12187995
>>12188072

>>12188083
OMEGA HEAVY STEALS ALL DOD CONTRACTS

THE FUTURE IS ON SOLID GROUND

>>12187995
soul

>>12187993
Can't scrub an SRB can you? They are technically more reliable in that sense

I wish OmegA won

>>12188094
more like 1/2, 0/2, and 0/7

>>12188098
Needs more strap-on SRBs so it can replace SLS to yeet orion to the moon (while turning the astronauts into jelly from the vibrations lol)

>>12188101
in American NASA, SRB scrub you!

SRBS ARE BACK ON THE MENU BOYS

>>12188101
>Can't scrub an SRB can you?
Well you can, it's just not as likely. You can still weather-scrub or ground-scrub.

how is this retard not fired wtf

>>12188111
yeah but this spacex scrub wasn't either, since they were seconds from lighting the engines, so its an engine issue, if it was an SRB it would be up there no problem

>>12188112
She was probably suspended without pay for her little Starlink stunt.

>>12188112
i want to cream in her so bad anon you have no fucking idea. i am obsessed, i dream about her every night. she is my queen and i will be will her one day

You can't get scrub over ground support equipment issue if you airlaunch

>>12188117
Unrelated but she's also a BLM commie jew. But that's why spacex is based. They have a lot of people with cringe personal lives but Elon nips it in the bud and makes sure they don't bring it into the work place
>astra blm explosion.png

>>12188094
Cygnus is a nice soup can. I proonted a little one for my desk some months back, I like it.

>>12187966

When are we going to mine asteroids? Its the only viable way to get serious resources dedicated to space. There's got to be money involved to motivate anyone properly.

>>12188061
Sticky aliexpress valve

>>12188120
Based

>>12188120
nofap is making you hornypost anon please go relieve yourself and look at her instagram after and realize how crazy she is

>>12188125
its a kino piece of tin can

This "Helicon Double Layer Thruster" looks cool.

https://physics.anu.edu.au/cpf/sp3/hdlt/how_does_it_work.php
>Power is required only for the maintenance of plasma and the creation of the magnetic field. In our current bench top prototype, 250W is sufficient to create several milli-Newtons of thrust. In space the solenoids that generate the 250 Gauss of magnetic field this requires we estimate could be cooled to 200K, reducing the resistance in the coils by a factor of 5 and representing a power consumption of a few 10s of Watts. Relative to other existing systems this constitutes quite a power saving and is well with-in the capabilities of solar panels. The 0.5sccm of feed gas represents a mass consumption of 160 mg/hr, so that a typical 5 hour burn would use 0.8g of propellant.
http://www.researchcareer.com.au/archived-news/testing-ground-set-for-plasma-jar-to-the-stars
>“The HDLT is also really cheap. It can use all sorts of propellants and it doesn’t use much of these. We’ve tested ten types of propellants and it’s worked for all of them.
>“The HDLT can also work with carbon dioxide. So with planets like Mars and Venus where you mostly have carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, you could refuel as you go. This is a great advantage because at the moment all missions require that you carry the propellants from Earth.
>“There are also no major issues with parts or erosion. As long as you provide the power and the propellant you can go forever. So with the right development this technology might get us very, very far… and hopefully back again.”

So ~1N/kW (tens of mN from 50W) with 200K solenoids, and ISRU with cheap inert gases. This seems like it'd pair really well with a plasma magnet sail and a 1MWe fission driven Brayton engine.

>call it 0.05N from 0.05kW of power
>0.05N of thrust from 0.000160kg/hr of propellant
>scale up to 1MW
>3.2kg of propellant per hour for 1kN
That's actually insanely fucking good if it scales linearly.

Fuck it, Cygnus appreciation thread for the little rocket that could.

A 4.5m wide Cygnus Extra Chubby would be the perfect payload stage for pic related.

>>12188126
too expensive to get anything of significant mass to them.

>>12188132
If you can scale it to 50 mw it's even sexier. I've seen fusion concepts that can churn out that much from a reactor the size of a shipping container. you could get to mars in less than a month.

>>12188101
Scrub is better than launch a flawed rocket and destroy payload.

>>12188117
What was the stunt again?

>>12188140
>you could get to mars in less than a month
I swear nothing gets me harder than hearing ambitious timelines like this

>>12188148
not a stunt, she opened up her starlink test box on camera,which was against the rules. It wasn't that big of a deal,she's still working there.

>>12188137

Not even to get the theoretically trillion dollar asteroid loaded with sexy metals back here and close enough to harvest?

>>12188140
>50MWe input
>50kN output
>you can burn for 24 hours with more than half the thrust of an Apollo CSM for less than four tons of propellant
>get to Mars in a month
>and you can refill your propellant tanks for the trip home by opening an intake to scoop up martian atmo (96% pure CO2) as you aerobrake
Jesus, that's really fucking good. Mars in less than a month, you say?

>>12188123
that's how it should be everywhere, you go to work to do your fucking job and get paid for it, leave the personal shit at the door

it's crazy how many companies are forgetting this

>>12188153
unless you can process it into small chunks in low earth orbit it's not worth shit, since much of it will burn up on reentry

>>12188159
No kidding, weird times. How does any capitalist company not recognize that any political nonsense they pull will always alienate some potential customers? The obvious answer is to play neutral and take everyone's money, I don't get why any company wouldn't intrinsically operate this way.

I have a question /sfg/. Does anyone know why the Falcon 9 interstage is BLACKED? Some sources say its carbon fibre, but others say its TPS.

I cannot believe how well my mach 3 X plane flies

>>12188150
The drive itself isn't even that complex, it's a can with a gas input pipe on one end, a nozzle on the other end, and some antennae pumping RF and a magnetic field into it. It's just one of the many spaceflight technologies that are limited by the weight density of electric power supplies right now. FUSION PLEASE HURRY.

>>12188165
<pol>
The reason large companies promote lefty woo woo nonsense is they think that if their guys institute socialism they'll get nationalized and thus preserve all their power without any need to compete. Picture tangentially related.
</pol>

>>12188166
if any part of the core needed TPS you'd figure it'd be the thrust structure so i kinda doubt it's that

>>12188165
What are the odds that Elon keeping politically low-profile and only mentioning stuff that can very easily be spun in a lot of different directions are related to him growing up in apartheid-era South Africa?

>>12188166
I want to kiss space mommy's feet.

why the fuck do they keep scrubbing?

>>12188174
>preserve all their power without any need to compete
Seems kind of evil when you put it that way.
>>12188181
100%

>>12188181
Very high
>>12188165
Great question. I have no clue. I mean for some companies like Netflix and Twitter it is understandable; silicon valley is an echo chamber. But for companies like Amazon or even the NBA or MLB... it's fucking mind boggling. I think it's a trend because they realized they somehow get MORE income. It brings liberals in (i.e. liberals will watch the NBA because they are pushing the BLM agenda) and they realize the republicans are too commited to the sport or company to leave. You really don't want to cancel your amazon prime just because they are liberal do you? No. Because you use it too much. It's all about the money
Here's a rearside photo to keep the thread on track lmao

>>12188165
>The obvious answer is to play neutral and take everyone's money, I don't get why any company wouldn't intrinsically operate this way.

That was generally how they operated but OWS forced a shift in strategy it seems, as well as the rise of social media, and twitter sealed the deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrLequ6dUdM

>>12188165
a lot of it is tech companies with too much money to burn, combined with ideologues at the top, or just narcissists who need to feel like they're making a difference in the world. you could literally fire 80% of the people working there, leaving only the engineers, a few competent marketing people, lawyers, etc., and the actual productive output would be the same, if not better

>>12188166
Block 5 Falcon Heavy has a white interstage

>>12188191
D4H cursed the ground. The Antares's first scrub was due to the after effects of D4H latest scrub. It subsided overnight and receeded from Wallops. Alas the curse is still going strong in Florida.

>>12188181
Elon is sitting on a ton of /pol/ tier views, as are a lot of silicon valley guys, and he keeps that shit locked the fuck down in public.

I think everybody knows about the 1969 Space Task Group report and its wildly overoptimistic expectations but Reagan appointed a National Commission on Space in 1985 that was even more ambitious in some ways - calls for rotating tethers, cycler stations, space manufacturing.

Members included Yeager, Armstrong, Bernard Schriever (USAF general who pushed for Dyna-Soar and MOL), Tom Paine (man behind the 1969 STG report), and Gerard O'Neill.

>>12188188
is she single?

>>12188209
>That was generally how they operated but OWS forced a shift in strategy it seems, as well as the rise of social media, and twitter sealed the deal.

IdPol is a hedge against economic populism because it convinced the PMC upper middle class and downwardly mobile college educated whites to attack the white working and middle classes in the name of racial justice rather than unite with them to attack our corporate oligarchy instead.

>>12188181
He's made his view clear politicaly. Socially liberal (human rights/clean air/electrification/solar/etc) and financially conservative (against subsidies for business in general, though will take subsidies when its offered so as to not be uncompetitive given that his competition gets ton of subsidies)

Forget about scrubs, anon. Let's take a moment on this balcony to ponder our destiny on Mars. What wonders await us in the great beyond?

>>12188235
the subsidy trap blows. we need aggressive reform, but the energy lobbies are very powerful.

>>12188239
Lotta dirt.

>>12188197
>KSP2.jpg
>>12188235
>Socially liberal (human rights/clean air/electrification/solar/etc)
Pretty sure you could say the same about the American Nazi Party if you just left out mentions of race.

>>12188209
It's also the same year POTUS repealed the law blocking government funded propaganda

>>12188255
i wonder why Trump never brought it back, not like Fox News was acting as his personal mouthpiece for the most part, the rest of the media was totally against him and could get away with a lot of shit thanks to that law being repealed

>>12188252
>Pretty sure you could say the same about the American Nazi Party if you just left out mentions of race.
Dumb. You have the party ideology in the name itself. How the fuck is Elon supposed to be same as Nazis?

>>12188257
I mean when talking about what they stand for. Obviously people are going to know they're Nazis if you say they're the American Nazi Party. But you could probably grab something from their website about them wanting a clean world for aryans, just remove the mentions of race, and then what they've said seems very unassuming.
Point is: Being a Social Liberal/Fiscal Conservative may as well just be saying you aren't involved in politics (or aren't willing to speak about politics). It's like Zodiac signs.

>>12188263
>Point is: Being a Social Liberal/Fiscal Conservative may as well just be saying you aren't involved in politics (or aren't willing to speak about politics). It's like Zodiac signs.
No. Its called being independent. There isn't a solid party for this because America is a two party system and the independents are forced to choose between two of the shitty political parties.

GODAMN IT

THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE NATURAL PROGRESSION FROM THE SHUTTLE, from retard stack of death to SSTO Spaceplane kino

Godamnit, I can't get over it, the shortsighted fools who canceled X-33 only for Columbia to happen 2 years later sealing the end of the shuttle without a vehicle in work to replace it, because they fucking canceled it like retards

godamnit

Trump got it, pretty sure Pence will get it too since this is the event where everyone got it from and Pence is front row. Our space dreams may soon be torn asunder.

>>12188272
>biden and harris die too
what do bros

>>12188278
at this point it would be too late to change the ballots. many have already voted. they might actually postpone the election a month or two if both the president and vice president somehow died

>>12188270
and then we were supposed to have a fleet of hundreds of venturestar-derived vehicles and it'd be off into star trek, i know the feel bro

>>12188272
Pence and his wife tested negative

>>12188278
They weren't big on spaceflight anyway. Trump and Pence are both big on it, and losing them will be a setback to the industry.

>>12187966
I am sick of driving to CCAFS over and over again for I think 4 consecutive scrubs.

>>12188272
Why are you addicted to fear and hysteria?

>>12188284
it can take a while for you to test positive even if you have it. a buddy of mine was exposed, got tested three days later, and tested negative only to come down with symptoms a few days later and test positive. although im sure the vp has multiple tests a day

>>12188278
celebrate

>>12188270
I refuse to believe that such a vehicle could have achieved orbit using only onboard fuel.

>>12188290
it doesn't seem right to me either anon

>>12188272
They'll be fine, they've got literally the best medicine/care that money can buy in the western hemisphere. Look at how long RBG took to die.

Continuing the discussion about Helicon Dual Layer Thrusters, the fact that you get ~1mo Mars manned ferry class thrust levels out of 50MWe input even hauling a fusion reactor along is really cool, because that means if it's for fixed routes between Earth and Mars, it might be possible to have one ferry route without using nuclear power at all. Assuming we can leave the entire mass of the reactor at home, we can probably get away with 20% of the electric power and propellant flow to get the same delta-V, so we'll use 10MWe as our target value for the engine input.

Assuming that the math checks out at Atomic Rockets[1], usually a safe bet, we have a rough beam efficiency factor for converting laser received input to electrical output of 0.63. That means to make our 50MWe HDLT-rod go, we need 10/0.63 = 16MW of laser hitting its receiver dish. During the standard launch window the loss from Earth to Mars is less than 50%, so we can call the source beam power 32MWe.

Assuming solar panels that are 15% efficient, and a laser array that is 50% efficient at turning electricity into light, and 1367 W/m^2 light at 1AU, that means we could build a solar powersat of 312,119 m^2... less than 0.4km^2, and without the political problems of a nuclear reactor in orbit. Then you can have slowboat Starships haul about 1km^2 of solar panels (to account for weaker solar flux at Mars orbit) and a laser emitter to Phobos or Deimos for providing the boost for the trip home.

[1]: www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/infrastructure.php#id--Solar_Power_Stations--Beamed_Power

>On a side note, can you guys take the political discussion to >>>/pol/ ? I just want to talk about rockets. I have /pol/ open in another tab to talk about Trump stuff there.

>>12188290
>>12188291

hazegrayart's render of it is weird to watch because when it goes to the zoomed-in distant shot i keep feeling like there needs to be some staging event happening but instead it just keeps chugging along

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciYWLbjH5qc

>>12188244
Sedimentology anons wya?

>>12188290
The margin certainly wouldn't have been particularly high, X33 didn't have payload at all, it was simply a testbed for the lifting body design, fuel tank design, and new Aerospike engine. VentureStar would have only had 20 tons of payload capacity but it was a 1000 ton vehicle, that's an absolutely tiny payload fraction.

>>12188297
based and soilpilled

Mars is bright tonight anons. Right next to the Moon

>>12188304
>moon is dark red
>can barely see mars at all
who california here bros?

>>12188304
It was beautiful at dusk. Super bright and super red

>>12188295
I don't like this

>>12188270
so many tiles, would be a shame if something were to happen to literally just 1 of them

>>12188312
Buran lost 7 in mission 1. It made it down.

sure would be a shame if someone happened to put some accelerometers in upside down!

>>12188322
IVAN NO

>>12188300
would probably have been higher and less gay if they used methalox instead of hydrolox

>>12188325
*pomf*

>>12188325
>design square peg specifically not to fit in round hole to avoid disaster due to incompetence
>the greater idiot hammers the peg into the fucking hole regardless

>>12188294
I don't know how to do electricity but if I'm reading you right then that means we need 64 MW collected by the panels and according to wikipedia state-of-the-art solar panels are 6.7 kg/kW so that would come out to about 430 tons for the Earth array. Well within Starship's capabilities.

>>12188270
Rest in hell giant boondoggle piece of junk.

>>12188353
It wasn't that much of a boondoggle. The whole thing cost less than $1 billion and adjusting for inflation that's less than $1.5b today. Compare that to $2.3 billion we're burning on a certain orange rocket every year.

>>12188353
Venture Star was never built

>>12188304
Been spotting it on my smoke breaks every night.
I love that red dot.

>>12188390
X-33 was VentureHopper

>>12188315
>lost 7
Baby numbers

>>12188132
How much power can you push into that thing before it melts? I doubt it's more than a few kilowatts, unfortunately.

>>12188405
when did the backwards flag meme start with the government. It makes no sense. Isn't it supposed to "symbolize" a flag blowing in the wind

>>12188418
In vexiology the host side always goes forward. It's a whole branch of autism.

>>12188140
>I've seen fusion concepts that can churn out that much from a reactor the size of a shipping container.
NERVA was a fission reactor the size of a fridge with a nozzle strapped to one end, and it had a thermal output of more than 3 gigawatts. The problem with nuclear power in space is that it works by making heat, which you use to heat a working fluid which then performs work to spin a turbine to generate power, at maybe 40% efficiency if you're REALLY good. However, you need to get rid of the heat in your working fluid before you can reuse it, otherwise it would take the same amount of work to compress it as it was able to perform in your generator. Therefore, you attach big ass radiators to the cold side of your heat engine, and your max thermal output from your reactor is limited by how much heat you can radiate.
Fusion and fission both behave exactly the same in this regard. However, fission has the very real advantage that it is vastly more power dense than fusion, because it doesn't need a large vacuum vessel surrounded by huge superconducting magnet loops buttressed up by half-foot-thick steel superstructure. A fission reactor can use solid fuel rods in a core, molten salt high temperature working fluid, and a supercritical CO2 Brayton cycle heat engine to generate and use megawatts of heat, then cool off the supercritical CO2 by sending it through aluminum radiators coated in a thin layer of carbon soot (aluminum because it's thermally conductive and light, and carbon coating because extremely light-absorbing materials are also extremely thermally-emissive materials, meaning maximum heat rejection overall). A fusion reactor could also use the same heat management system, but the reactor itself would be eight meters across and weigh 500 tons, instead of being 1x1x2 meters in size and weighing 5 tons for the same thermal output.

Who will be the first person to blow big vape clouds outdoors on Mars?

>>12188426
braaaaaAAAAAP
my ass anon

>>12188163
>since much of it will burn up on reentry
Lmao just send it down in passively stable capsule-shaped slugs ten meters across weighing 3000 tons each, sure you'll ablate off a few inches of exposed platinum/gold/whatever, but who cares? The other 2900 tons of paydirt are gonna slam into the desert/ocean/ice cap just fine, ready to be daintily plucked and packaged for transport.

>>12188166
It's made of carbon fiber, and it's coated in a thin layer of black TPS. This is not a joke, CF needs TPS even at Falcon 9 booster reentry speeds, and the stuff they picked is apparently similar to felt in texture but is really good at radiating heat and really bad at conducting heat.

>>12188424
Lmao good answer. Gave me a laugh

>>12188154
That's pretty close to enabling brachistone trajectories, isn't it?

We Rocinante now

>>12188411
Most of the wattage just goes to establishing a static magnetic field. If you can use superconducting solenoids you could probably get away with running entirely passive except for the RF exciter.

>>12188447
As usual that depends on a compact fusion reactor that doesn't weigh a gorillion tons, and keeping the magnets cooled to 200K.

I just want to thank /sfg/ for all the support. Without you, none of this would be possible

you know, virgin galactic are actually pretty impressive if they can make a profit off of 2 million in revenue per each flight,all things considered. How much lower could that price go?

>>12188476
what's 2 million times zero

>>12188174
>FUSION PLEASE HURRY.
Again with the fusion. Fusion doesn't help you. Fusion power is just thermal power, in which case you're stuck with heat engines and their radiator array issues.
If you want to wish for a pie from the sky to solve your electrical engine problems, wish for direct-energy-conversion. That would let you treat ALL generated heat as waste heat, which means you can now use carbon-coated tungsten radiators and molten nickel coolant to blast infrared light out into space from the 3000 K surface of your small radiators, and therefore let you ramp up total reactor output to make up for the likely-to-be-less-efficient direct energy conversion mechanism by just throwing more power at it until you're doing better than if you used a heat engine.
Ideally a direct energy converter would be able to make use of whatever mechanism it was built upon with at least a 10% efficiency, and ideally could do so either without needing to be kept cryogenic or without generating much heat itself. A direct energy converter that needed to be cooled using liquid helium would be a waste because it would never be able to achieve the scenario above, where you have a 10% efficient electrical generator pumping out 500 megawatts of electricity from a ten ton fission reactor core being kept cool by four white-hot radiators with a thermal flux of five gigawatts.

>>12188479
that depends

>>12188425
>The problem with nuclear power in space is that it works by making heat, which you use to heat a working fluid which then performs work to spin a turbine to generate power, at maybe 40% efficiency if you're REALLY good.
not if you're using direct energy conversion and most of your output is alpha particles. heat is still an issue,but much less of one. you could use heat pipe or phase change cooling.

>>12188487
If most of your output is alpha particles you already have a rocket.
>magnetic fields to deflect the particles rearward
>MHD generator behind the nozzle to pick up electricity from exhaust
The electric thrusters are secondary propulsion at that point.

>>12188476
What profit? They've been in development for like 20 years without major progress.

Scrub today because "Unexpected pressure rise in the turbomachinery gas generator"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1312252573575860226

>We’re doing a broad review of launch site, propulsion, structures, avionics, range & regulatory constraints this weekend.
>I will also be at the Cape next week to review hardware in person.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1312251818731167744

>We will need to make a lot of improvements to have a chance of completing 48 launches next year!
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1312249542125842434

>>12188270
Piece of literal shit that would have never worked, every single piece of technology required to even let it make orbit was falling far short of minimum performance requirements before the thing was finally put out of its misery.

Venture Star NEEDED the carbon fiber composite tanks because if they built it out of Al-Li using the lightest construction methods they had it would still be too heavy; the only way to shave off more weight was to imagine the ability to create carbon composite tanks with the same amount of joinery mass as a metal tank, which is impossible.
Venture Star NEEDED the super high performance aerospikes to work, because it needed both high thrust to weight ratio propulsion AND very high Isp. The problem is, the smaller engine they built to work out the specifics in the aerospike design ended up being very over weight, very under powered, and not nearly as efficient as they'd hoped. Jesus Christ man, they had baseline assumed that the main engine they were going to develop was going to be more efficient and higher thrust than the RS-25, while also being lighter than it, but chances are the opposite would have been true of the thing in all three categories.
Combine these two already program-killing flaws with the fact that the Venture Star design itself was ass-heavy and difficult to control during all phases of reentry and glide to landing, and you have a recipe for an even worse boondoggle waste of time and money program than Shuttle. The fact that ANYONE thought that Venture Star made any sense is just more evidence to the fact that people are unable to think if they are convinced something is cool.

>>12188300
>X33 didn't have payload at all
It was also not even close to being an SSTO, it was only meant to get up to like mach 5 or something gay like that. X-33 was basically a nothingburger, it was only in development at all to prove that the tech was ready to build Venture Star, but what it ended up proving was that the tech was not even close to ready, oops.

>>12188350
Before anyone jumps in with "muh fusion", solar panels are actually the lightest option out of any option for making electricity in space, at least out until you go past Jupiter. A ~50 MWe nuclear fission power source would easily weigh 800 tons, and a ~50MWe nuclear fusion power source would easily weigh 1500 tons.

>>12188390
Because it was a piece of shit
>>12188353
based and practical engineering pilled
>>12188371
It was going to be worse than Shuttle, but luckily got shitcanned (ironically because of the perceived threat to Shuttle era legacy jobs).
Instead of Venture Star we got SLS. At least with SLS there is no excuse. If Venture Star were still in development hell today a lot more people would be willing to shill for it with "space is hard, this has never been done before" blah blah bullshit

>>12188453
>If you can use superconducting solenoids you could probably get away with running entirely passive except for the RF exciter.
Okay, so the RF exciter is what will melt first, got it. Either that or the chamber walls themselves.

>>12188526
The RF exciter uses less than 10% of the power, so if you're running superconducting magnets you only need 1MWe for the beamed power version... and these things are clusterable due to neutral exhaust so you can split it into ten cans, ten solenoids, ten RF exciters, each of which only needs to handle 100kW. That

>>12188493
>The electric thrusters are secondary propulsion at that point.
Yeah exactly
>>12188487
>not if you're using direct energy conversion
see >>12188482
Direct energy conversion doesn't solve all your problems and more importantly it doesn't real. It depends on us perfecting high gain fusion with a fusion fuel combination that requires vastly higher pressures and temperatures than what is required to achieve Q of more than 50 with D-T fusion. At that point you can hook up a nozzle you your juiced up roid-rage fusion reactor and blast off on direct fusion plasma thrust.

>>12188531
that is completely doable. Without the superconducting magnets I do think that would be your constraint since they lose 80% of their efficiency going from 200K to room temperature.

>>12188531
I'm not saying it won't work because it'll melt.
I'm trying to figure out what part would break if I hooked it up to a power supply and ramped up the power arbitrarily high.
Even if it's using all-superconducting everything, even superconductors can't have infinite current passed through them; they can go until they get too much current to handle and then the superconducting effect breaks down into normal resistive conduction, even though the temperature does not increase first (of course, as soon as the superconductor stops working, it suddenly feels the resistance of those tens of thousands of amps of current and rapidly vaporizes).

>>12188522
The reason I say that it wasn't that much of a boondoggle is because they at least learned from shuttle that you should demonstrate all the necessary tech before you commit your entire space program to one vehicle.

They should have run with a low-risk development like the HL-42 in the 90s and once they had a reliable fallback in place THEN they would have been in a position to start taking swings at SSTOs.

>>12188154
>>12188132
>1N/kW
>3.2 kg propellant per hour for 1kN
Rocket equation.
Thrust (in newtons) * Exhaust velocity (in m/s) * 1/2 = power (in watts).
1 N/kW thrust implies a 2 km/s exhaust velocity at 100% efficiency.

3.2 kg of propellant for an hour of operation means an exhaust velocity of 1.125 million meters per second, and a power rating of over 500 MW at 100% efficiency.

>>12188533
>It depends on us perfecting high gain fusion with a fusion fuel combination that requires vastly higher pressures and temperatures than what is required to achieve Q of more than 50 with D-T fusion
Literally in the final finishing stages. Aerospace applications will take some time, but should be possible by the latter part of this decade,

>>12188549
brainlet here, is that an ISP of over 100000s?

what will space shipping containers look like

>>12188540
I don't know enough about the plasma physics involved to know how much you need to scale the magnetic field strength and RF intensity to maintain exhaust velocity with increasing mass flow.

>>12188549
From what I've read on their website the input wattage is basically just the equivalent of a preburner on a chemical rocket, using field geometry to create the plasma, which then accelerates out the back. 500MW for a standing plasma wave seems reasonable.

https://physics.anu.edu.au/cpf/sp3/hdlt/how_does_it_work.php

>>12188556
Yeah, ~115,000 Isp

>>12188562
Big Chygnus

>>12188563
>the input wattage is basically just the equivalent of a preburner on a chemical rocket
In terms of function or in terms of power output? Cuz that'd be a massive power output for an electric engine

"SDA's Tracking Layer will provide global indications, warning and tracking of advanced missile threats, including hypersonic missile systems."

https://beta.sam.gov/opp/107a9e2ef34a455a8894c2dc7be5fad1/view

SpaceX wins contact to build Tracking Layer leo satellites for DOD

>>12188576
In terms of function. The link goes into more detail.

>>12188578
star wars is back on the menu boys?

Why is fusion bullshit can I have a dumbed down explanation pls

>>12188595
it's not that easy in nucleaketry

>>12188595
A fusion reactor plus shielding gives you worse specific power (power/mass) than fission except for enormous multi thousand ton space ships.

>>12188581
Congress cut funding for an orbital neutral particle beam demonstrator last year so it's probably not the cool shit. But if they're putting up an entire constellation of LEO tracking satellites it could mean that they're getting ready to support the cool shit in the coming years.

>>12188543
Now that SpaceX has convinced everyone the key is two stage flyback reuse, do you think we'll see a new round of spaceplanes on top of boosters? Not just X-37B on Falcon, but something much bigger on Superheavy?

>>12188608
All I want for christmas is the gleam of particle accelerator shots across the sky

Starlink/Brilliant Pebble combination satellites when bros?

Sea Dragon wet workshop?

God damn I just started watching the [new] cosmos with NDT and it fucking sucks. Should I watch the original Cosmos? I've seen clips on youtube and it looks good as fuck. Most of the information is stuff I already know for the most part, but Sagan was honestly a true science communicator without the cringe

>>12188628
it's obviously nothing groundbreaking, but it's pretty comfy to listen to and it has some really nice art

>>12188626
Go figure out the combustion instability and get back to us when you're done. We'll be in space, relaxing in dry workshops that number in the hundreds and cost less than $10 million each.

>>12188631
Yeah that's why I like it. It was made in the golden age of film making. I really like sagan's weird voice and the effects are cool if you want to actually pay attention. Modern cosmos is drowned out by the fact that all CGI looks the same these days. The original cosmos had soul. Kind of looks like something wes anderson would parody because it's so iconic y'know?

when you think about it, a can of diet mountain dew is NASA propellant in a handy balloon tank format

Yo mamma's wet workshop?

>>12188641
Diet Mountain Dew wet workshop?

>>12188635
adolf schaller's art for it is pure KINO

>>12188641
speaking of diet mtn dew, im gonna kill that anon that photoshopped mtn dew zero on the spaceman instead of diet.

>>12188652
Use the "Hitler did nothing wrong" Dew logo and hide a Haunebu in the background.

>>12188623
Probably after the particle beam demonstration gets funded. Even pebbles would probably still need support from some sort of particle beam to paint their targets and distinguish between warheads and decoys, since it's always gonna be cheaper for an enemy to make a decoy than it is for us to make a pebble.

I say probably because sensors and computing have come a long way since the 80s so maybe it's simpler to do these days.

>>12188620
Steady yourself, anon. The days are coming.

>>12188651
This is dangerously based

>>12188654
gooshing granny

>>12188651
https://www.planetary.org/articles/20131023-on-hunters-floaters-and-sinkers-from-cosmos
good article on the background of that painting

25 megaton yield casaba howitzers when?

>>12188654

>>12188660
>I also added a more conventionally recognizable 'twister' emerging out from the ceiling of the canopy at the upper left because I wanted to give the camera a chance to come across one unobstructed funnel, and there was no other convenient place to place it. Its bothered me because strong vertical convection of the sort typically required to form them would normally not be taking place within a laminar stratus plume of that kind. It was placed there for the convenience of the shoot: it wouldn't be very noticeable in the long shots, but only when the camera panned over the region at close quarters, making the ceiling resemble the base of a convective cell.
based and aspergerpilled

i think starship will work, but flight rate will not achieve what's necessary to cost 2mil per launch

>>12188651
some more of his art I found

>>12188700

>>12188702

>>12188700
>That spaceship
Yooooooooo we are truly living in the past's futuristic vision. It looks like starship

>>12188709
Once they went with the steel body I wish it had gotten rechristened as Rocketship but it's close enough

>>12188704

>>12188270
Didn't this thing have such mass problems that it would require essentially fictional tank materials to be light enough to reach space?

>>12188717
I wish there was a good compilation of all his work available, but it's spread across a lot of different books and shows he worked on over the years

>>12188717
I hope we find aliens one day.

I’m sad

>>12188717

>>12188722
last I have for now

>>12188722
What the fuck would the scientific community think if we sent a Europa ocean submarine and this was the first photo it sent back. It would be another hubble moment. "Why the fuck didn't we send a mission here earlier??????!"

>>12188270
SSTO and Venture Star are impossible
you're suggesting that they waste billions of dollars on a fucking pipe dream

>>12188742
light can't get through the ice it would look more like a marianas trench video

>>12188152
SHE NEEDS TO OPEN UP ANOTHER BOX ON CAMERA IF YOU CATCH MY DRIFT

>>12188771
Ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh I see what you mean anon, but why would she show us her mail?

>>12188761
SSTO isn't impossible, just wildly impractical. Starship could probably SSTO with single digit tons of payload, but adding the booster takes this to triple digits.

>>12188763
Some organisms actually perform photosynthesis using only the very faint glow produced by black smokers

>>12188783
I don't think that's correct but I don't know enough to refute it. Black smokers do not emit light themselves and it is FAR too deep for any natural sunlight to penetrate. Anything down there is chemosynthesis or heterotrophs feeding off of other organisms for energy.

>>12188789
https://www.pnas.org/content/102/26/9306

stupid fucking lander update:
lander is just about complete, need to do a few more test runs and get everything to work perfectly in one run but the design is pretty much finalized
went back to the rover that it's going to carry on the first mission, removed some mounting points I don't need anymore because of the new deployment method and redid the solar panels and batteries and blinged it up with some lights
I wanted to add some nitrogen thrusters to the rover for extra traction and gofast/braking, but figuring out a way to control them without KSP firing them all over the place would take some effort and they would run out of gas pretty quickly with what I can carry on here so I dropped them

next up: manufacturing and payload integration!

>>12188501
this man is correct
Venture Star is impossible, the mass fractions they were imagining are impossible, especially for hydrogen
staging is difficult or scary, people, it's not the fucking 50s

>>12187979
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enCrAlNHrYo

>>12188615
Starship is a spaceplane
I want to see some dolphin sex

>>12188718
all SSTO have that problem, yes
>>12188777
you MIGHT be able to do it if you put modern engines on an Atlas balloon tank, but nobody's made a rocket with that good of a mass fraction since because it's just not necessary

>>12188825
SSTO isn't difficult if you're expending the booster, Atlas could and did SSTO (including a mission where they used the booster tank itself as a comms relay)

SSTO becomes almost impossible when you add the extra mass of recovery hardware and heat shielding

>>12188839
Atlas never did SSTO, they always staged off the booster engines

>>12188841
Okay, 1.5STO. Which can improve to SSTO with something like Raptor replacing the sustainer. The point is the hard part of SSTO memes is having any mass left over after reusability needs (heatshield, landing fuel, etc).

>>12188844
Yes. Unless you're using hydrolox, in which case it'll never close on SSTO (you can't make your tanks light enough, even before you contemplate reuse)

Honestly, what the fuck is SpaceX doing right now? Do they have nothing but janitors working on these launches and the a-team working on the crew mission? Is that why everything gets fucking scrubbed?

>>12188849
Yeah, hydromemes are a shit. If you really must force a space plane SSTO into existence through sheer persistence and autism, you'd probably go down the route of a methalox SABRE

>>12188793
Woooooah what the fuck?! Thank you this is so interesting. Also what the heck does “obligately” mean, literally never heard of that phrase in my life

>>12188854
subcooled propane and liquid oxygen balloon tank (only one tank, put your propane in a bag inside the LOx tank)

>>12188855
>Also what the heck does “obligately” mean, literally never heard of that phrase in my life
"Adjective - restricted to a particular function or mode of life.Often contrasted with facultative."

>>12188855
it can only survive through that mechanism, as in an obligate carnivore is obligated to eat meat if it wants to live

>>12188858
MAKs spaceplane, but with a single Raptor. Retain the bulge on orbit as wet workshops. Launch it from Stratolauncher since they're not doing anything more important

>>12188865
methalox single vacuum raptor powered air launched fully reusable stainless steel spaceplane, huh?
also: no, internal propellant storage, no drop tanks

>>12188855
I bring it up because such a method could be used by organisms on the seafloor of Europa to produce useful energy, in addition to other possible sources.

Obligate means need or requirement. An obligation carnivore is required to eat meat.

“He was obligated to perform his duty.”

>>12188868
Single RVac, launched from airliner altitude. 380+ ISP, dense propellants. If anything would make spaceplanes work it's that.

Martian GPS and data satellite constellations when?

>>12188839
The Venture Star.

>>12188516
Just have the astronauts use stationary bikes to generate electricity.

>>12188371
orange rocket bad may at some point perform some mission for those billions of dollars.

venture star would have never made orbit.

>>12188800
What mods are you using?

Why is everyone so obsessed with wet workshops?

>>12189027
they make me wet

>>12188946
when Elon launches Marslink

>>12189022
posted it the other day here, these plus B9 aerospace and infernal robotics that I added recently and a few others manually installed
mostly it's just everything in the recommended mods section of the RO/RP1 install guide and then some other stuff like NF that don't have proper configs yet but are still useable

>>12189027
They're a fun practical way of way getting a large space station quickly

hypergolic sea dragon wet workshops

>>12189027
Until infrastructure is set up, wet workshops are the fastest cheapest way to get a lot of useful volume off earth. And obviously you need a lot of useful volume to start a working infrastructure.

>>12187966
daily reminder space travel is impossible

>>12189027
Actually you should explain why you aren't.

>>12188235
i don't think clean air/electrification/solar is socially liberal

>>12189192
"space travel" is a weird euphemism for you losing your virginity.

>>12188304
Noticed a bright red looking star above the moon and i thought it was a red giant or something, lets just say I got a nice surprise when I looked at it with my 10 inch aperture telescope.

>>12188425
>However, fission has the very real advantage that it is vastly more power dense than fusion, because it doesn't need a large vacuum vessel surrounded by huge superconducting magnet loops buttressed up by half-foot-thick steel superstructure.
Thats a meme. Look into non ITER fusion reactors.

>>12188154
>50MWe
What unit is this?

>>12189194
Because I want a window when I'm working in space. What's the point of going to space and not having a window? Just sitting in an empty fuel can in space. What am I? Space Diogenes in my fucking space barrel? Hey space Alexander you'll give me anything I want? I want you to stand out of the way of my solar panels k thnx. Oh look I fucking died fighting space dogs over rancid space meat woooooow.

>>12188694
Could tornadoes exist on jupiter

>>12189222
Megawatts(Electric)

>>12189250
I never heard of it. Why the need to differentiate between MW from electricity vs MW from any other source? Power is power right?

>>12189227
this would go over much better in your natural habitat, r*dditor

>>12189282
You're an imbecile who sees a simple problem and comes up with the most inane overcomplicated solution possible.
Just launch another rocket with another module if you need a new lab or whatever. Wet workshops are as retarded idea as SLS. Do you have any idea how much work it would take to convert a fuel tank into habitable space?
Everyone and their fucking dog is trying to get out of the obvious solution to all of our space problems. Build a bigger rocket. They had that bit figured out in the 60's. But you're all still too stupid to grasp something so simple. Want more people in space? Build a bigger rocket. Want more stuff in space? Build a bigger rocket. Want cost/kg to come down? Build a bigger rocket.
The amount of time and money that has been spent on pursuing retarded ideas just to avoid building bigger rockets could probably have been spent building enough massive rockets to move the population of earth to the moon. And yet you're still all here talking about living in a fucking fuel tank because you're too afraid to just build a bigger fucking rocket. And it's become some sort of cult like following for you imbeciles on top of that.

>>12189297
bigger rockets with bigger fuel tanks for bigger wet workshops!

>>12189297
It's not that easy in rocketry.

>>12189297
>Do you have any idea how much work it would take to convert a fuel tank into habitable space?
flush it and re-pressurize it lol
i bet you're one of those whiney niggers that thinks trace methane is mustard gas
>desperately trying to imply wet workshops are mutually exclusive with bigger rockets
bigger rockets are what make wet workshops an attractive option, are you fucking retarded? yeah you are

but what about dry workshops?

>>12189314
>flush it and re-pressurize it lol
Wow, you're retarded.
>>12189328
Sky lab was too cool for the cultists in this thread.

>>12189297
>Do you have any idea how much work it would take to convert a fuel tank into habitable space?
Not as hard as you make it out to be.
>Everyone and their fucking dog is trying to get out of the obvious solution to all of our space problems. Build a bigger rocket.
Sometimes building a bigger rocket isn't practical or feasible.

Skylab wet workshop when?

>>12189328
That looks like a fine idea if the big upper stage was gonna be ready for SLS before 2030 but I guess LOPG is gonna have to do.

I know Zubrin hates the gateway but I'm fine with having a moon station just so we can spur some demand for regular commercial deliveries to lunar space. And I'm just happy we can finally have a moon station.

>>12189379
I thought Zubrin hated gateway because it's in that weird "sorta around the moon, but not really if we get another presidential shuffle" orbit?

>>12189384
It's in an orbit that Orion can reach with the Delta IV upper stage. Once we get a rocket that can put Orion in a more useful orbit like L1 or L2 then the station can be moved there too if they want.

>>12189379
the only reason we have a gateway is because of that dumb fuck gerstenmaier, which is why he had to go. now we have its vestigial sucking funds away from HLS. None of the landers require a gateway. It's a waste of fuel to stop there.

>>12189398
Just starting with a barebones power module + hab module means that you've got the option to give it more servicing or science capabilities later, which is how they should've done a space station instead of the ISS.

I agree i'd be better if they started with a lander but it's not the worst thing in the world either.

>>12189396
>Orion with the Delta IV upper stage
What a sad program. Even Boing made an improved Centaur upper stage for their Starliner in short order.

>>12189414
Everybody knows that clustering four RL-10s is much harder than clustering six and takes 20 years to actually implement.

>>12189412
i dont get as pissed about it as i used to since they've deprioritized the shit out of it. but before HLS talks began, gateway was getting all the attention by nasa and media

>>12189427
The Saturn I completely mogs the SLS in every practical way. Anyone who thinks that the SLS's delayed development is a good thing should be shown pictures of this rocket.

>>12189447

>>12188114
Anon, I recommend you read up on Challenger

>>12189447
I've never really thought about it, was the rocket just vertically integrated with its stool?

>>12189509
All of the IBs for Skylab and ASTP were stacked with the stool in the VAB.

For all the Saturn I/IBs up through Apollo 7 they were vertically stacked by a crane at Launch Complexes 34/37 but those pads were shut down before skylab.

>>12189509
I can't find a source that specifically said so, but the milkstool was made so that the Saturn IB could be integrated into the launch infrastructure of the Saturn V with minimal change, so it seems like the Saturn IB would have been assembled in the VAB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0-8Pd7fK9w

>>12189489
Only 1.97% of all shuttle crew members and 1.23% of all astronauts total have been killed by Solid Rocket Boosters anon.

>>12189528
They just wanted those sweet delta-v savings.

Why do we distinguish female astronauts from regular astronauts?

>>12189575
Because it's [Current Year], Sweaty.
But in all seriousness? Beats me. It's probably the above and some belief that it will make the normalfags pay attention to NASA and give them a bigger budget or something.

But it won't.

>>12189575
There's a reason it's called a cockpit anon.

>>12189575
gemini shit bags vs 0g vag toilets

>>12189575
Because we're all equal.

>>12189578

>>12189575
This anon >>12189578 has the right idea. Making special attention to women doing something that was previously male dominated is popular right now. NASA has been culturally irrelevant for a long time and has been trying for so long to be relevant. There's also a political angle. It would be career suicide for a politician to try to kill a program that would bring the first woman to the moon.

Not that it matters in the end. This kind of endless chasing for feel-good firsts was what got NASA in this mess in the first place. What space agencies/companies should do is to focus on getting real work done first and foremost. It's easy to argue against spaceflight when it's this nebulous idea of exploration and firsts, but it's harder to argue against real industry and real discoveries.

>>12189575
Spaceflight is German at heart.

>>12189559
Sounds worse than the Corona-chan numbers. So why do we have to wear fucking masks and lock ourselves up until Bill Gates comes by to inject us with a """vaccine"""?
>>12189578
if only we could somehow convince the normiefags that more manned space missions would somehow overcome the coof.

>>12189297
based

Today in history:
>1942 – A German V-2 rocket reaches a record 85 km (46 nm) in altitude.
>1962 – Project Mercury: Wally Schirra in Sigma 7 launched from Cape Canaveral for a six-orbit flight.
>1985 – The Space Shuttle Atlantis makes its maiden flight.

>>12189622
we dont actually have to do anything. these government restrictions are unenforceable. if private institutions require masks and other gay measures, so be it.

>>12189642
Mercury-Atlas must've been a wild ride at the time given the experimental nature of everything involved.

>>12189297
it's like the fish that swim up the shaft to live inside the bladder. people that like wet workshops are parasite leeches. it is by definition weak

>>12189671
https://youtu.be/Ppk7I2iaNKY?t=67

>>12189693
Karl is a treasure of the universe.

>>12189543
I didn't even realize this but the little fellow above the s-iv is supposed to be the dual-RL10 s-v upper stage. No wonder Von Braun wanted Centaur cancelled.

>>12189659
Before Glenn flew there had been 5 Mercury-Atlas test flights. 3 successes and 2 failures. It was probably the most dangerous rocket to ever put a man in orbit, including the shuttle.

Change my mind: wet workshops are ONLY good for cargo storage.

>>12189713
>not repurposing a large propellant tank for micro-g football

>>12189713
they can be good hangars for shirtsleeve servicing too

>>12189027
We just wanna see habitat accruing up there because every square foot of livable space in Space means it’s that much more likely for neets to get a ticket in

>>12189622
Because an SRB can't kill you by coughing on you, you have to fly a rocket in order for it to do so. Astronauts do take measures to make themselves safe, which is their equivalent of wearing a mask. People who rode the Space Shuttle didn't say "less than 2% of people died on this why should I wear a seatbelt?"
And for every person that dies of Covid, there are 20-30 people who have permanent lung damage, seizures, heart failures. Total deaths is not the whole picture.

Space fission is great, but expect a fight from the more paranoid radophobes.

>>12189717
Imagine how many years would have been saved if we had a pressurized garage to assemble the Webb Telescope in.

Also, Big G cameo.

>>12189733
Too useful for Congress to allow.

Why don't they just pressurize space so you don't need a space suit?

>>12188075
>>12188497
Elon: "Unexpected pressure rise in the turbomachinery gas generator"

>>12189746
because you wouldn't look as cool if you weren't wearing one

>>12189746
Just wrap duct tape around your skin to keep yourself together.

>>12188916
if you've got a mach 3 carrier aircraft that can drop it in a climb it'll work
I'm not sure about subsonic carrier aircraft

>>12189266
no, power as heat is much less useful than power as electricity

>>12189233
>>12189251
>SRB booster that fly back and land
That's a light once-burn til dry gig. It would be a "challenging" task even to stage an SRB before it's burn't out completely, impossible ( I hate that word) to land it on the rest of the burn because the lighter it gets, the more it will not want to land, except if you...
...
Mother of...
Fucking hell!
What if we did that and attached a gliding kite and skies to it?


Why the fuck do we have two sfg threads btw? You fucker have one job and you're so abysmal at it ffs.

>>12189213
I was assuming REBCO magnet non-ITER designs. ITER isn't even going to be a functioning power supply, it's just a fusion experiment, and also it weighs tens of thousands of tons. ARC, a reactor meant to be capable of producing several hundred megawatts of electrical power, will be about 5 meters across and weigh hundreds of tons, without considering the mass of the power generation system attached to the reactor.
Other designs like Z pinch etc may eventually work someday, but not for a long while if technological trends continue at their current accelerated pace (REBCO magnets have basically cut the time to working fusion power supplying the grid by a factor between 5 and 10).

GIANT
DEEP SPACE
LASER
TELESCOPES
Elon's already planning to put NASA out of the job of deep space communication

>>12189805

>>12189266
It matters a lot in spacecraft since conversion rates from thermal to electricity are so bad with only radiators to manage temperature and dump waste heat. If you managed to convert all waste heat to electricity through some magical process you'd be able to run arbitrarily large spacecraft.

>>12189810
Nasa isn't doing shit from here on out. They used to be the big man in charge but it is clear that commercial companies are going to do their own thing while NASA beats around the bush and tries to suck congress' cock for the next 50 years with no real goal in mind other than
>muh vaginas on the moon

>>12189805
old one hit image limit during launch so a new one was made

>>12189810
>Elon's already planning to put NASA out of all their jobs

Ftfy, soon there will be literally nothing NASA can bring to the table. With the revenue from starlink, Elon can bankroll any colony tech he needs to be developed.

>>12189805
The other thread hit image limit and we were expecting a SpaceX launch to not scrub.

Can someone post the ULA space economy meme?
Please

>>12189266
>Why the need to differentiate between MW from electricity vs MW from any other source?
There is no megawatts "from electricity", it's a description of how much power your power supply can actually supply.
No power conversion system is 100% efficient, heat engines are the best we've got and they can do 40% efficiency if you push them with extremely autistic levels of engineering.
A 100 MW reactor doesn't supply 100 MW of electrical power, it produces 100 MW of heat. This translates to about 40 MWe, if you have the aforementioned very good heat engine to use heat to generate a rotating magnetic field and thus create electrical power.
This is a very important distinction, especially in space where getting rid of heat is a fundamental problem involving waste heat radiation into space. In fact the need to be able to reject large thermal flux into space in order to set up the thermal gradient necessary to produce a lot of power is the reason why nuclear power has never been favored for spacecraft unless those spacecraft have low power requirements and are going somewhere that solar power is impractical (ie, far from the Sun or onto a planet or moon).

>>12189412
Not having an actual final design in mind when starting a space project is a god damn mistake.
>"we will figure it out later"
No they fucking wont.

>>12189819
>>12189822
nevermind, my bad.
Both threads ran parallel for hours and the "new thread" post got buried. I fucked up, but I'm not taking back anything what I said about OP.

>>12189713
Wet workshops are ONLY good for propellant storage, actually.

>>12189821
NASA will exist solely as a rubber stamp approval of congress and as a spaceflight technology archive

>>12189838
You can just use a dry workshop for storing propellant.

>>12189813
Basically. More specifically, if we had a means of direct energy conversion (such as using the fast radiation exiting a reactor to push electrons) and didn't use heat engines, then we could treat all heat like waste heat, attach super high temperature radiators to the reactor, and ramp up the power until everything was glowing white hot and we were getting 1kWe/kg of specific electric power to mass ratio. If you want to be really fancy you could probably extract some kind of minuscule extra benefit by using mirrors to bounce radiated heat backwards in a beam as it left your spacecraft, basically giving you a kind of photon rocket. Would probably be a real option for something like a several-ton interstellar probe with 100 kg of nuclear fuel and the ability to remove fission products from the fuel as it was used so the core didn't just poison itself after ten years.

>>12189847
propellant stored in soda cans kicking around the hab module

>>12189845
enh, I think once starship is proven Nasa could become a colony org. Unlike rocketry, there aren't exactly wild possibilities for budgest bloat when building autonomous working machines and habs / infrastructure. It might be a lot easier for them to make plans and get approval knowing they will have starships at a fixed price to launch whenever and however many they need

>>12189828
>all that equipment
FFS just wrap the capsule in some high density polyethylene and eat the mass ratio downgrade.

>>12189853
Yup.

>>12189848
I've heard RTG's use direct-energy converters... but I have heard they suck dick at their job. Can someone explain this to me? Also is there currently anything more efficient than a sterling engine? It seems dumb to me that some "cutting edge tech" like kilopower literally rely on steam engines- is there seriously nothing better in our inventory?

>>12189852
>Nasa could become a colony org
>aka how to make sure you never get a colony

Get the fuck out of here, Elon is gonna bankroll this shit and use indentured slave labour for maximum speed of growth.

>>12189853
That goes against decades of spaceflight. Minimizing dry mass to force the use of rare expensive materials to increase the budget is a stable of spaceflight. Taking that away is like removing Phil Collins from Genesis.

>>12189864
Yeah NASA's job in the future should be to do everything BUT human landing logistics. They should be in charge of R&D for commercial companies (such as trying to perfect an aeromeme engine) as well as building more expensive orbiters and planetary missions because the cost of launch will be dirt cheap (so they could afford to do more expensive and complex rovers and orbiters)

Will Mars have it's own currency or just use USD? Using USD off-planet would be wild, the Fed already can't keep track of the dollar in overseas markets. Imagine the wild lawless investment banking on Mars.

>‘Well, we went on this long sea voyage, and we had everything except vitamin C.’ OK, great. Now you’re going to get scurvy and die—and painfully, by the way. It’s going to suck. You’re going to die slowly and painfully for lack of vitamin C. So we’ve got to make sure we’ve got the vitamin C there on Mars.

>>12189871
Begone banking shill, Elon will be using command economy which will transition to LABOUR BACKED CURRENCY

>>12189872
Lithium can substitute for vitamin C

>>12189872
Martian orangeries when?

>>12189871
water-backed Dogecoin

>>12189888
Checked and lmao

>>12189869
>NASA puts /sfg/ in charge of coming up with retarded engine, module, and mission designs
>tries all of them since commercial rockets are so cheap
>Big Jim creates a solar sailing race
>Larry Ellison throws billions of dollars at it like he does ocean sailing races
>other billionaires scramble to compete
>Starliner gets pushed back another year

>>12189882

>>12189888
Dangerously based

>>12189899
>retarded engine design for cheap
FISSION TORCH SRB FISSION TORCH SRB FISSION TORCH SRB

>>12189871
Etherium coin. Haven't you seen Elon's twitter?

>>12189828
To be fair...it’s a neat plan. It’s just too bad ULA doesn’t do anything unless you give them a government contract.

>>12189908
I actually have some ETH I use to renew my Pass.

>>12189910
that's the real plan, the meme had rapidly increasing numbers of EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLES in every panel

http://forum.purdueseds.space/pspodcast/episode1/
>Starliner coder
I feel bad for this chick, working for Boeing sucks dick
>BPS.Space
JOEY B

what time is the spaceX scrub tonight?

>>12189937
Bad weather moving through today, next scheduled launch is starlink on monday now.

>>12189937
Sorry bro I spilled coffee on the special NASA approved launch button, going to take a few weeks to get approval from shelby to order another one from alabama.

>>12189947
I found these two leads, we can just short the rocket, anon!

>>12189954
>>12189954
Gene Kranz is a blessed angel from heaven

>>12189872

>>12189872
Space-Franklin expedition when?

Say either Starship proves to be single use or the one you’re on shows that it can’t fly again, and you’re the first crew on Mars. You have about 2 years before a retrieval rocket will come for you and you have equipment for your mission to establish an outpost
What do?

>>12190013
masturbate

>>12190013
set up the life support and propellant depot, then spend two years fapping to hentai

if Starships can't refuel and take off from Mars the whole system doesn't work and we die on Mars

>>12190013
Female astronauts are gonna be well fucking used by the end

Also probably watch the sopranos

>>12190034
>Female astronauts are gonna be well fucking used by the end
Ha ha baby printer go brrrrr