/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12181693
Oh, also.
>It's far more complex than just chromosomes
So, you can change everything else, but the one thing you can't change you must ignore?

it's gender identity disorder which so far has no effective cure but to embrace it repressing it causes psychological distress and in severe causes suicide all psychologists know this but until we have an effective cure for it they allow transitioning

Science says that gender dysphoria can be cured with schizo meds.

>>12181693
Science says transgenders are far more likely to kill themselves. It makes absolutely no sense to "identify" as a gender, gender isn't about identity, it's about biology. If you want to chop of your dick and prance around in a balleraina costume in the women's bathroom, more power to you, but that doesn't change your underlying biological condition of being male.

>>12181786
Therapists have given up on mankind, instead of telling people the truth about transgenderism and how they will get over the feeling in a couple of weeks or months they cheer them on and try to transition them whenever possible. Fact is even when they're successfully transitioned, the suicide rates still stay abnormally high and they need to be constantly on meds. I used to hate transgender people but now I see that they are just a victim of therapists and society who forced them on the notion that converting is the right choice instead of their natural instinct that it's wrong. Such a shame that something which was considered a mental illness a couple of decades ago where scientists would've never even consider the idea of transitioning has completely flipped creating more fucked up situations.

I hope transgender people the best, don't let someone in authority tell you what is right but instead evaluate the risks of transitioning and all the risks by looking at the testimonies of people that have transitioned and what they have live through daily. It's a fucked up situation to put yourself and I understand why a good portion of them commit suicide, these people needed help the most and they got the worst solution possible

I honestly think it will no longer be a problem once medecine and technology will be able to provide true transition.

>>12181693
Gender isn't the same thing as sex, and gendered behaviors and interests are in large part socially defined rather than biologically mandated.
Some people are born with an internal sense of gender-associated interests that does not match the social consensus for their biological sex.
There's nothing weird or freakish or abnormal about this state of affairs, and if you retards stopped conflating sex with gender at every possible opportunity then maybe these people wouldn't feel like they need to mutilate their genitals.

By constructing rigid gender norms and constantly perpetuating the idea that sex and gender are the same thing, YOU have created an environment where somebody experiencing gender dysphoria is more likely to map that internal dissonance onto their biological sex and believe that they cannot be truly happy without doing irrevocable damage to their organs.

>>12181828
We're basically there. Check out >>12181607

>>12181831
Dilate

>>12181848
You are responsible for the evil you decry, cuck.

>>12181828
you mean technology to basically rewrite your entire DNA? dream on, meanwhile we'll just make this shit illegal

>>12181896
I work in this field. Won't be illegal, but it will be first accessible only to the elite.

>>12181811
>something which was considered a mental illness a couple of decades ago
outdated beliefs from the 1950s

Gender doesn’t exist, considering there is no real concrete thing that could be ‘defined’ or ‘considered’ as “Gender.” There is sex, female and male; along with masculine and feminine—there can be a feminine male, or a masculine female, but their biological sex does not change because of this—and hence why I reject the notion of ‘Gender’ entirely. I am a non-realist in that regard.

Gendered nouns or adjectives or verbs in languages, or the lack thereof, is not a problem whatsoever.

>>12181828
>>12181839
What is "true transition"? Something that can fool you? Why do you think that's true transition? It's still a man.

>>12181831
>By constructing rigid gender norms and constantly perpetuating the idea that sex and gender are the same thing, YOU have created an environment where somebody experiencing gender dysphoria is more likely to map that internal dissonance onto their biological sex

Who are you talking to? Gender is just a social categorization that arises out of biological differences between the sexes to more efficiently assign social roles, courtship habits, etc. Nobody is deciding any of this should happen, it just emerges naturally into the collective unconscious of society.

Scolding people that THEY are responsible is useless, you might as well yell at a brick wall.

>>12181993

Something that's either genetically female or at least functionally female or vice versa.

What would be the difference between a female born and a man becoming capable to bear children?

>>12181831
>Gender isn't the same thing as sex, and gendered behaviors and interests are in large part socially defined rather than biologically mandated.
Why do you think that? So, you are saying tomboys aren't women? Concept of effeminate men dates back to the Ancient Greeks, but before last few decades, they still identified as male.

>>12181993
I interpreted it as when the end result is basically indistinguishable from a cis woman.

>>12181981
It would be very interesting to see a study from the 1950s or any time before 1990 and current day to see how effective the different approaches taken to transgender patients were successful. I could bet you that the suicide rates back in the 1950s would've been way lower than what a transgender would experience today since from looking at testimonies of transgender people who've transitioned it's a nightmare. You're being a useful idiot and ruining countless peoples lives just because you want to virtue signal

>>12181693
Basically science is experimenting with using drugs and surgery to alter the genetic expressions in the dna. Transgender couldn't exist without science. Has science gone too far?

>>12182042

>implying most us here could exist without Science.

kek

>>12182001
One is a woman and one is a cyborg man whose mental issues aren't going to away no matter how much their body is modified. The cyborg's body modification won't fix anything, it merely fuels their delusions and prevents them from accepting reality, they won't find the happiness that way, it will never be enough.

>>12181693
So I get that gender =/= sex
BUT
Transgender = Switched Sex
BECAUSE
Transsexual = Now opposite sex
Please I am dumb on this I admit it just explain to me I need to understand what it all means.

Also is hermaphrodite considered offensive to use?

>>12182102
On top of that, what historical examples are there of hermaphrodites and people with gender dysphoria?

>>12182019
But that will never happen, even if modify men's modifies for childbirth that doesn't make them woman, everything between men and women is different, different bone structure, different skin-cells, different brain.

Trannies can believe whatever they want about themselves. It's when they use the power of the state to force everyone else to claim to believe in the tranny's delusions that there is a problem. Trannies pulled this crap in Germany in the 1900s and we know how that turned out for them.

>>12182113
Yeah, I was just thinking visually indistinguishable. I thought the guy in the OP of that thread is pretty close already.

>>12181723
Yeah my doctor told me ai should embrace my identity as Don Quixote. He's getting me hooked up with a sweet suit of armor and everything. What a supportive dude.

>>12182123
Yeah we bashed their skulls in with the power of communism and capitalism.

>>12181839
>asian
That's cheating, they're basically like fantasy elves and have very little sexual dimorphism compared to any other ethnicity.

>>12181894
God i wish that was me

>>12181693
[math]Psychology∉[science, math][/math]

i trooned out because i hated my body no matter what
being on hrt has made me want to kill myself less and less
if it weren't for (society) i would still probably identify as a homosexual male but it is the path of least resistance for me to get documents changes etc
i don't particularly care about make up or gendered clothing but this could just be because i rarely leave my house i guess

I don't understand why they don't just give trans people testosterone if they're male and estrogen if they're female.
Like nigga, you just watched too much anime.

>>12182439
this is literally the first thing people tried, they even tried it in Auschwitz and it just doesnt work

>>12181693
(Quoting Kathleen Stock)
Several of us endorse a cluster account of femaleness, according to which possession of some vague number of a certain set of endogenously-produced primary sex characteristics — including vagina, ovaries, womb, fallopian tubes, and XX chromosomes — is sufficient for femaleness, though no particular characteristic is necessary or essential. We don’t think even that XX chromosomes are essential for femaleness. According to us, someone with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is correctly categorised as female, at least for most non-technical uses of that term. Whether or not this is ultimately right, the main point is that a cluster account is consistent with realism about biological sex categories, and with the claim that those who have none of the named primary characteristics in question cannot be correctly categorized as female. In other words, our view still rules out all or nearly all trans women from counting as female, without committing us to an essentialist account of femaleness.

>>12181693
>>>/lgbt/ you forum sliding attention whore.

>>12181693
view them with disgust

>>12181723
Their suicide rates are still big even after doing transition. Many also regret doing it and felt scammed by their therapists.

>>12181896
Rewriting DNA at such level is going to be used to things like cancer first, no? This is going to be real life eugenic genetic engieniering.

>>12181693
Talked to some retard on StasiTube some days ago. I asked why I am supposed to pay for surgery with my forced social security.
>they are more likely to harm themselves
>especially if they can't cut off their schlong
>then cutting off their schlong is cheaper than giving them therapy
>muh trannies are just as good parents, if not BETTER, than cis parents, study shows
I asked about the study and how people who harm themselves due to mental disorders can be better than normal people at parenting. Still waiting for a reply I probably will never get.
>TL;DR
There is no scientific proof they should be a thing you should tolerate so it's better you don't.

>>12181831
>and gendered behaviors and interests are in large part socially defined rather than biologically mandated.
They really aren't.
Anyone who has had the misfortune of watching a tranny do its woman impersonation will immediately see that it's an incredibly forced and awkward act, and not "secretly being a woman on the inside" or whatever.
Hell, they don't even have real hobbies, they just go with whatever they think it is women do, like try to bust into feminist groups.

>>12181693
>Personal identity is just what you feel you are?
Gender identity is by definition subjective.
>Am I god if I identify as one?
Nobody feels god in a manner similar to feeling male or female.
>So, you can change everything else, but the one thing you can't change [chromosomes] you must ignore?
The primary mechanism of action of steroid hormones is to modulate gene expression. That means hormone therapy modulates the activity of genes.
>>12182900
>I asked why I am supposed to pay for surgery with my forced social security
Do you ask smokers why you have to pay their lung cancer treatment? Why are you paying insulin for type II diabetes? Knee surgery for the obese? Blood thinners and beta blockers for those with a poor life style? All of these treatments you are forced to subsidize, but of course trannies are the evil ones for being born with their condition.

>>12182874
no, delusional people's feels will always be prioritized curing a disease

>>12183527
Actually I do. But cool way of making baseless assumptions. Real scientific mind right there with all your biases.
Not sure why I'd bring up smokers and diabetes people in a thread about trannies or under a video about trannies. Usually your type calls that whataboutism, which is a bad non argument anyways but w/e. And yeah.
>subsidising some mentally ill people (trannies) by playing along with their dillusions is good, but subsidising paranoid people by playing along is bad.
Really weird man. Really weird.

Transgender is natural. Just as cancer and down syndrome.

>>12183567
You are completely missing the point.
>Not sure why I'd bring up smokers and diabetes people in a thread about trannies or under a video about trannies
That is for the simple reason that you yourself brought up "forced social security".
>I asked why I am supposed to pay for surgery with my forced social security
The purpose of that system is that everybody shares in the burden collectively to theoretically create a fair and even distribution of medical costs including those of self-inflicted disorders including type II diabetes and lung cancer in smokers. That is why I brought those diseases up.
>subsidising some mentally ill people (trannies) by playing along with their dillusions is good, but subsidising paranoid people by playing along is bad
You seem to think gender dysphoria is some sort of mental illness with delusions. You are ill-informed, recent research all point to it being an endocrinological disorder. Medical transition is the only proven and effective treatment for gender dysphoria and since evidence-based treatment is the golden standard in health care, you are "forced" to subsidize transgender surgery.

>>12183527
>Nobody feels god in a manner similar to feeling male or female.
That sounds like hatespeech, who are you to deny my celestial existence?

>>12183527
>Do you ask smokers why you have to pay their lung cancer treatment? Why are you paying insulin for type II diabetes? Knee surgery for the obese? Blood thinners and beta blockers for those with a poor life style?
Yes

>>12181693
None of this is empirical; none of this is science. "Identity" is a philosophical concept, and no amount of scientific research can prove the "truth" of a trans person's identity one way or the other.

This is really a debate about how society should be structured. Should we allow people to self-determine identity? And if so, are we obligated to respect their identity?

Neuralink will shock the gay away.

>>12181693
What science? Is it science if you prefer to have a pony tail instead of a crew cut?
Same shit. Some males want to do gay/girly shit and they do it. Literally not science at all.

>>12181693
From a psychiatric point of view, all trannies have borderline personality disorder.

Transexuality is legit a psychiatric disease, however the ethics of the trade made the approach to this disease to shift from "Fix until it's normal" to "it's hopeless to treat, heal their distress instead", and their growing political backing has made purely political documents such as the dsm manual to normalize them, but we all know what they really are like.

>>12183527
>Do you ask smokers why you have to pay their lung cancer treatment? Why are you paying insulin for type II diabetes? Knee surgery for the obese? Blood thinners and beta blockers for those with a poor life style? All of these treatments you are forced to subsidize, but of course trannies are the evil ones for being born with their condition.
False equivalency, those people are going to die if they don't get the treatment they need while a gender dysphoric person would continue to live. Holy fuck are you seriously comparing a mental illness, gender dysphoria, to life threatening situations as if the patients will die if he doesn't transition? Transitioning is not healthy at all too, the suicide rate still say abnormally high after transitioning and the mental problems persist. You're a useful idiot

>>12181693
Dumbfuck.. is someone pressuring you to take hormones and get gender reassignment surgery? No? Then FUCK OFF it's not your business what other people DO.

Not /sci/ related. FUCK OFF BACK TO /pol/

>>12181693
Trannies are furries but with gender

>>12183849
How do you explain these opinions?
>More to these facts in science than you are aware of, cause you're parroting decades old beliefs about this topic. Outdated beliefs.
>Try reading a biology book written after the 1950s.
>I obsessed over these people until I took the time to understand them instead of reciting every conservative talking point with no factual data backing it up. It's never too late to keep an open mind about the things you choose not to understand.

>>12184372
People who I talked insists it's science-backed so it's /sci/ related

>>12184372
Kill yourself, bastard.

>>12181831
>gendered behaviors and interests are in large part socially defined rather than biologically mandated.
>Some people are born with an internal sense of gender-associated interests that does not match the social consensus

>Gender is mostly socially mandated.
>But my gender is still biologically strong to the point I need to cut my dick/tits to account for it's importance.
>But PLEASE don't forget that gender is a social construct.

You cannot even make your own mind lmao

>>12183137
Trannies and feminism seems to go together like peas in a pod

>Feminist activist women are masculinized in terms of digit-ratio and social dominance: a possible explanation for the feminist paradox
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.01011/full

>>12181831
>Some people are born with an internal sense of gender-associated interests that does not match the social consensus for their biological sex.

>>12181693
If you cut your tits off and make a sausage out of thigh shirt and attach the sausage to your pelvis and wear a flannel shirt and take some pills to make your cheeks a bit more hairy you'll be a man.

>>12181693
If you cut your tits off and make a sausage out of thigh skin and attach the sausage to your pelvis and wear a flannel shirt and take some testosterone to make your cheeks a bit hairy you are a man and always were.

>>12183621
>recent research

>>12184391
>Trannies are furries but with gender
Furries are at least usually capable of hiding their power level when they're not actively yiffing.
Trannies just try to turn absolutely everywhere and everything into their designated dilation stations.

>>12184372
>is someone pressuring you to take hormones and get gender reassignment surgery?
Yes, on this very website.

>>12185372
Join us

>>12181693
You are right, they are doing it because those weirdos would feel sad and more would try to kill themselves.
The problem is that you are inserting a "different human species" in a normal human society with lies and that fucks with people minds

>>12185326
Is that a new /pol/ meme? They are decreasing quality wise which is sad as some of your memes used to be really nice eye openers for many people.
>>12184261
>False equivalency, those people are going to die if they don't get the treatment they need while a gender dysphoric person would continue to live
Instead of stating that those people die without treatment, we may just as well state that those people die as a consequence of their own behavior. People with gender dysphoria die from suicide if they do not receive the treatment that they need. There is no legitimate reason to exclude transgender people from medical care. If you are going to treat obesity, type II diabetes, smoking-related lung cancer, you should also provide health care for trans persons.
>Holy fuck are you seriously comparing a mental illness, gender dysphoria, to life threatening situations as if the patients will die if he doesn't transition?
Firstly, gender dysphoria should be perceived as an endocrinological disorder, not as a mental illness. Secondly, those life threatening situations we are talking about are entirely self-inflicted. More than a few people may have doubts on obesity-related surgery on fat people especially if they are refusing to even attempt to diet. We can question whether it is fair and reasonable to carry collective burden over life style choices of the individual.
>Transitioning is not healthy at all too, the suicide rate still say abnormally high after transitioning and the mental problems persist
Utterly false. Medical transition has numerous times been shown to drastically reduce rate of suicide, psychological well-being and mental disorders. Transition in fact is very healthy for those suffering from gender dysphoria. Why do you think it is covered in health care at all? Just for fun?

>>12185556
It is utterly insane that this tranny bullshit is the only mental illness on the planet where your proposed solution is to further enable their delusions.
Because you things are all the same, we all already know your next shitpost is going to be
>BUBUBUT THAT'S THE CURE, SCIENCE SAYS THAT'S THE CURE, SCIENCE SAYS I'M A WOMAN
It's not a cure.
You're not a woman.
It's a fetish taken to an insane level.
You don't give a shit about science, all you care about is trying to misrepresent it for validation that you're somehow "a real woman".
You don't give a shit about a cure either; you just want to keep pushing surgeries and pills in the hopes they get better, because this is all about enabling your insane fetish, not an actual cure.
If we ever reach the level of gene therapy required to actually turn someone into the opposite gender, that will be the most asinine, basic bitch application possible for it. But that doesn't matter, because you'll never live to see that anyway.
We have already heard every single point that your insane low autist dysfunctioning ass has to say, so please go kill yourself before you decide to groom more children into following in your disastrous footsteps.

>>12185556
If you insist it's an endocrinological disorder, how do you think people in the past dealt with it? Do you think they all just committed suicide?
Furthermore, if it's an endocrinological disorder, how do explain masculine men in their thirties suddenly deciding that they are women? If they were suffering endocrinological disorder but suppressed it, wouldn't they have committed a suicide already?

>>12185595
>>12185595
>It's not a cure
Here is an overview of the literature on medical transition:
https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/
>We identified 55 studies that consist of primary research on this topic, of which 51 (93%) found that gender transition improves the overall well-being of transgender people, while 4 (7%) report mixed or null findings
>We found no studies concluding that gender transition causes overall harm

>You're not a woman
I have the common sense to realize I will never be a "real woman" as you phrase it.

>>12185652
>If you insist it's an endocrinological disorder, how do you think people in the past dealt with it?
We can only speculate on this. The best approach would probably be to head over to /lgbt/'s /repgen/ and get a glimpse of how repressing the inner trans affects daily life.
>Do you think they all just committed suicide?
Nah, I would conjecture many lived sad, miserable lives. There is always something stopping you from suicide: loved ones, life events, distractions or just plain survival instinct. Again, see the pitiable souls on /repgen/ for reference.
>Furthermore, if it's an endocrinological disorder, how do explain masculine men in their thirties suddenly deciding that they are women?
Nobody suddenly decides that they are women. Arriving at the decision to transition takes extreme amounts of thought, consideration, doubt, etc. It may easily be the most important decision in life and therefore is not taken lightly and may take years and years of reluctance. Repression of thoughts and feelings, particularly socially undesirable ones, is a common psychological defense mechanism, which is why you sometimes see masculine men deciding to transition.
>If they were suffering endocrinological disorder but suppressed it, wouldn't they have committed a suicide already?
What kind of logic is this? Are you assuming suicide is inevitable after suppressing an endocrinological disorder?

>>12185914
>Because you things are all the same, we all already know your next shitpost is going to be
>BUBUBUT THAT'S THE CURE, SCIENCE SAYS THAT'S THE CURE, SCIENCE SAYS I'M A WOMAN
I already called it you retarded tranny.

Why do you retarded faggots bump these off topic forum sliding threads?
Just fucking report this trash and move on.

>>12181723
This

>>12185916
>/repgen/ and get a glimpse of how repressing the inner trans affects daily life.
>Again, see the pitiable souls on /repgen/ for reference.
That's grooming.
They aren't "repressing being a woman", because they are not women, either mentally or physically. Watching any tranny's woman impersonation confirms this beyond all reasonable doubt.
But thanks for admitting you're one of those psychos who unironically uses /tttt/.

>>12185939
Because after they're done shitting up /sci/, they'll just rotate to the next board to try and turn it into yet another one of their designated dilation stations. There is quite clearly no co-existing with these things, so the only solution is to explicitly blow the fuck out of all their retarded lies they spam over and over again, until they either get actual therapy for their mental insanity, or kill themselves. I'm fine with either, since it means no more grooming children, and no more turning everywhere into dilation stations.

Most modern male trannies are groomed, insecure autists with minor hormonal problems such as sparse facial hair. Lmao.
Trannies as nothing but an illness is such a first world problem, as it's mostly mental derangement.

>>12185916
>There is always something stopping you from suicide:
So, that defeats your own claim that if they don't transition they will commit suicide.

>>12185961
It appears as if trans men outnumber trans women 1:10. Strange.

>>12181699
people can be born with the wrong chromosomes, and im not talking about trans people. Women can be born with XY chromosomes, and they will have hormone production issues as a result. Nobody is calling them men.

If this can happen, chromosomes are not a good enough metric for gender/sex. We need something better if you want to play scientist.

>>12185935
I cannot decipher your gibberish.
>>12185948
>They aren't "repressing being a woman", because they are not women, either mentally or physically
I never said that. I think you are attacking some sort of Twitter message or something you have seen somewhere.
>Watching any tranny's woman impersonation confirms this beyond all reasonable doubt
The trans women that successfully imitate female behavior and appearance aren't recognizable as trans persons by definition. That means you would not identify them as such and never know you would have observed one because your brain would perceive them as a real woman.
>But thanks for admitting you're one of those psychos who unironically uses /tttt/
You're welcome.
>>12186171
>So, that defeats your own claim that if they don't transition they will commit suicide
This is fair to point out. I should have said that for the majority, there is something to hold them from suicide and only a minority actually engages in suicidal behavior.

>>12186418
>Nobody is calling them men.
I'm.
>This is fair to point out. I should have said that for the majority, there is something to hold them from suicide and only a minority actually engages in suicidal behavior.
Props for admitting it, I know some people would have insisted on bullshiting it.

>>12181693
>the brain of a trans woman and a cis woman are nearly identical
what the fuck is this?

>>12181693
Gender Dysphoria makes someone want to be seen as their desired gender by society.
Society has social norms designated feminine/masculine.
They try to fit in to more masculine/feminine things.
They change their appearance (and undergo sex changes) so it matches their vision of themselves.
Might be mental illness which makes them think "I have to be female to like these things, or I must be female if I want to act like one", or something. It's just people not being comfortable with who they are and doing unusual shit to try and fix that. Nothing new.

>>12187149
What is gender?
According to Wiktionary:
>Identification as a man, a woman or something else, and association with a (social) role or set of behavioral and cultural traits, clothing, etc; a category to which a person belongs on this basis.
I don't understand this. I get the idea is make sex biologial and gender social, but how do what variabes make the gender?

>>12181693
Why even care about Trannies? They all kill themselves and they make up near negligible amounts of the population.

>>12181693
Cosmetic technology and plastic surgery is much more advanced now then it was 20 years ago.

>>12186505
>the myth of the invisible tranny
kek
no, everyone can tell

>>12187223
>what variabes make the gender?
It's whatever stereotype the tranny has in their head, which is usually offensively shallow, because they're not actually women.

>>12181693
Like most retardation, the story begins in the US of A...

>>12181983
Follow the money

>>12184501
Ask them to post their evidence

>>12185108
Kipling would be in tears

>>12182857
>Their suicide rates are still big even after doing transition
Their suicide rates stay exactly the same after transition

>>12189105
Proof?

>>12186418
>Women can be born with XY chromosomes
Yeah you need to source that
I know of klinefelter's and other such anomalies, but a pure XY being woman.. ?

>>12189224
Look up Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS).