/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12174357
Your comfort and personal happiness is secondary to the importance of your work. You're better off giving up ideas of things like relationships and losing yourself in your field for the rest of your life.

>>12174357
> he fell for the PhD meme
> moreover it's physics
kek, anon. you fucked up. which branch of physics though? if theoretical physics, cosmology or particle physics, you are basically studying modern equivalent of theology
>Your comfort and personal happiness is secondary to the importance of your work. You're better off giving up ideas of things like relationships and losing yourself in your field for the rest of your life.

> modern physics
> anything useful or even connected with reality
kek
pretty much most useful technology doesn't care about the developments in theoretical physics since 1960s. most nanotech can be derived with basic QM and numerical methods, don't even need relativistic corrections for anything.

>>12174357
Build space ship and fly away.

>>12174357
Should have done a PhD in engineering

>>12174377
>modern equivalent of theology
It's so funny when people still can't accept there's more to physics than the velocity of a ball rolling

>>12174365
>Your comfort and personal happiness is secondary to the importance of your work. You're better off giving up ideas of things like relationships

How do you even consider that?
At the end of the day, I wouldn't be doing a PhD if they didn't pay me. We are all after the $$$ or the status of intellect.
Do you want to "help humanity advance" or some similar pop-sci shit?
I think it would be way more fulfilling to create a company, and I admire successful business people more than any academic I've met.

>>12174377
Photophysics and raman spectroscopy

work out how to clone crypto trends, seriously
if u cloned yfi like 50 others did last month you would already be a millionaire

>>12177161
>if u cloned yfi like 50 others did last month you would already be a millionaire
I am a heavy /biz/ user and I have never come across the phrase "cloning crypto trends"
can you elaborate?

>>12177166
i just meant, copy whatever token pumps since most are open source or close to it.
im sure you know earlier this year hex did 100x, clones like hex2t popped up and did well.
then last 2 months it was the yield farming and uniswap clones that popped up like mushrooms.
easier said than done though

>>12174357
>>15.000 a year (UK)
Jesus fucking christ. Unironically this is what I make but in a third world country where the cost of living is half of what it is in the UK. God damn...

Yeah, I'll probably never do a Ph.D. unless I become Taleb wealthy or something.

you are retarded for going all in on something you aren't sure about. a lot of the boomer PhDs that i know got a degree in something to secure a job then studied what they like later

>>12176265
This is a great way to see it, I'm stealing this. Thanks anon

>>12177155
Why would you go into academia if you are after money? Stop thinking about this for a few days and then you'll probably forget about it.

>>12174357
The wage thing is fair (although you should apply to more scholarships/fellowships if you want more money), but if you care this much about the fact that only a handful of people will ever understand your work, well then I'm afraid you're a fucking idiot for ever considering a PhD. How is this such a major concern? Do you really care that the average midwit is unable and unwilling to grasp research-level physics? They can't even understand balls rolling down a slope.

Some of your other points are garbage too.
>Don't stay in academia if all you can find is postdocs.
>Every postdoc I know has a stable relationship with their spouse despite moving and dealing with the 2-body problem
>Quit academia and get a real job if you want to be a homeowner
>I have no idea what you're talking about with the friends thing, but it sounds very much like a personal problem, completely unrelated to being in a PhD program
Basically, it seems like you have no idea what you want, what you're doing, or even why you're doing any of it. Get your personal issues sorted out first. I'm not saying going for a PhD wasn't a mistake - it's definitely not for everyone. But the fact that you didn't realize it until now signals much more fundamental problems.

>he fell for the academia meme

wait until you find out how the system works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgGZMRJ15oY

>>12177760
just kill me. where do you live?
>>12177837
>Why would you go into academia if you are after money
for the status. Regretting now however.

>>12177837
>This hardworking, intelligent fellow who is investigating novel problems at the frontier of the human knowledge wants to have a livable salary? OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU MUST WORK FOR FREE LIKE A FUCKING MONK NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU MERCENARY

Unironically kill yourself. Lazy leach niggers earn as much as a PhD student. This is completely bullshit Go fuck yourself you fucking faggot moron.

>>12178085
>just kill me. where do you live?
I live in Panama.

>>12174377
not OP but
is plasma physics considered a good field?

>>12178118
Go back to bed kiddo

>>12174357
>>9.000 alone is rent

Buy a van and live inside. Get a gym membership for hygiene facilities. There, saved you 9k.

>>12174357
wish I was smart enough to pursue phd in physics..

>>12174357
>will have to spend the rest of my career moving from postdoc to postdoc every three years
Do at least one post. doc, preferably in different countries. I did two, one in Japan, can recommend.
>will never have a stable relationship
You could leave academia. I did too in the end, the student debt was a bit overwhelming. I ended up as a patent attorney and we have several physicists, most have a PhD. In this line of work a PhD is appreciated.

>>12174357
So quit and get into something else.

>>12178049
>How is this such a major concern?
I will give you that, but the sheer doom that waits me leads me to finding excuses for dropping out, like the fact that very few people will read/appreciate my work.

>Don't stay in academia if all you can find is postdocs.
1-2 postdocs is mandatory if you want lectureship at a decent university.
This means turning 33 at least.

>Every postdoc I know has a stable relationship with their spouse
Good for them, in my book NOONE will follow you after a short relationship. You can't have a 2-3 year relationship as a PhD/postdoc and expect the other person to follow you wherever the fuck.

>friends
I left my friends in my home country to do a BSc, I left my BSc friends to do PhD, and I will leave my PhD friends to do postdoc. Family too.

I appreciate your long post by the way. These questions rang a few bells in my head
>it seems like you have no idea what you want >why you're doing any of it
But the more I continue it seems the path of academic success and life-outside-work success are very different.
My home country has zero industry and is a completely service based economy, which means if I continue it will be abroad and I'll be a glorified immigrant in the end.

>>12174357
LMAO
>roll in theoretic physics PhD from piss easy chem degree
>nobel prize winner in faculty
>work 30 hours a week
>still publish in nature and physical review becaus physlets only learn math and have 0 physical intuition
>save 10000 bucks a year
>married my qt3.14 gf and gonna shoot babies in her next year

LMAO'ing @ studacious nerds who follow the straight and narrow straight into the swamp

>>12179028
>went into theoretical physics from chemistry
Nice LARP faggot

>>12174357
Drop it. It's honestly not worth it. I did. I hated my advisor, he was a dick and he wasted my time as much as he complained about me wasting his. After you do you'll feel like shit and it'll be hard to move on, find a job, but you can do it.

>>12178049
>But the fact that you didn't realize it until now signals much more fundamental problems.
Why do people say shit like this? Nigger what fucking fundamental problems could he possibly have? He's a midwit? Who cares. His problem is that he doesn't like the program as much as he thought he would. He stuck with it because sunk cost fallacy.

>>12179018
>1-2 postdocs is mandatory if you want lectureship at a decent university.
I thought it was 2 - 3 postdoc rounds, and increasing. Around here postdocs are considered slave labour. There are many career killing places to avoid.

>>12174357
>be doctor
>unemployed
>Wife is jew with 250 million dollars to her name
>Marry rich is a meme for girls they said

>>12178375
Ha you got me son

>>12179481
>Around here postdocs are considered slave labour.
Where is here?

>>12181040
the world

>>12181040
Norway.
We just had a court case where a PhD student accused her professor of filing a patent application for her work. There have been plenty of other dog-eat-dog cases too.

Threads like this really discourage me to pursue a PhD. Is it really that bad? I just wanted to work on things that I liked. Can you even live comfortably?

>>12174377
based retard

>>12177155
>Photophysics and raman spectroscopy
You are doing important work in furthering our imagine techniques. Too bad you are getting paid peanuts and not even a middle income wage.

>>12181177
>Is it really that bad?
Depends on where and on what.

>>12181177
I did a PhD and I don't regret it. Just keep in mind it is a lot of hard work and little money. Then again, life is about new experiences and you get that in spades doing a PhD and one or two postdocs.

>fell for the PhD in physics meme
It's not a meme, you just have to be realistic. PhDs is a specialization in R&D, and is possibly helpful should you need international recognition (to be come an expat for example). If you're not doing it for either reasons or for the love of research, you fucked up. You wouldn't need to take a masters in civil engineering to become a plumber. Why would you do a PhD if you're not doing any of the above ?
>a slave to my PIs desires
Why ? It's extremely hard to fire a PhD and most PIs/professors know that. Once the money is invested on you they cannot redirect it towards anything else. As long as you show some honesty and you don't turn the phd subject into a fucking farce, you have your say as your cooperation is needed if they want to produce any papers
>15.000 a year (UK)
>9.000 alone is rent
Why did you accept such a shitty stipend ? Can't you be a TA ? Can't you get any other scholarships ? 15k for financing is a fucking irresponsible offer. The only way i'd accept that is if Feynman himself gave me that shitty offer.
>will have to spend the rest of my career moving from postdoc to postdoc every three years
If you are not doing a postdoc in anything that is not the top 20 universities in the world, you're doing it wrong. IF you're doing more than a postdoc, you're doing it wrong. If you do not get a tenure after a post doc, go private.
>will never have a stable relationship
A PhD is the perfect time to have a stable relationship. You can manage your own time, arrange for dates and whatnot.
>will always be a rentcuck
>never own a house
Go private you cunt
>making and leaving friends behind all day
That's just you being an asocial sperg, see stable relationships
>at least will have publications in magazines which 1 out of a million people read
If you wanted to publish in Nature then you should've had the right grades to get the right professor. If you want citations, make papers that are not just incremental.

Cuck

>wanting a bitch to tie you down
>wanting a house and mortgage like some boomer
To be honest, the only problem is the pay. However, there are postdoc positions which pay reasonably well.

>>12181177
PhDs are okay as long as you don't jump into the first offer you get like a fucking retard.

Do a background search on professors, citations, h index, relevancy in the field, impact factors of the journals they publish in. If a guy publishes often in Nature, you might have a chance to publish in Nature too. If the guy is good, he probably got money, which means more conferences. Conferences are great for networking (and a perfect place and pretext to hook up with some cute chinese phd student).

Apply for scholarships, international scholarships, be ready to internationalize yourself and even expatriate. A*Star in singapore have a great scholarship scheme called SINGA. Germany has some of the best paid phds in the world. The US is literal shit at that. The only way i'd see myself in the US is if i got a post doc in harvard or shit like that.

Get good grades so people will actually want you. The more you are wanted, the more leverage you'll have when it comes to stipend. Don't haggle like a cunt, justify why you need that extra cash.

Do all of this and I guarantee you'll have a blast during your PhD. You should be doing something very similar when looking into any job offer so it's good exercise. All the people bitching and moaning about how bad they have it during a PhD are typically idiots who didn't do their research right.

>>12178157
not him but i thought you lived in Somalia or some fagistan or kekistan or something

>>12179028
>t. kekistani scientist

>>12182178
this. blamung phd for lack of relationship sounds like le olde incel cope

jesus christ this thread gave me anxiety. thank god I’m in CS and will live forever in effortless, well-paid mediocrity

>>12182573
I want to get a PhD in CS. Will I have better time than OP?

>>12177166
based /biz/tard, always on the lookout

>>12174357
Try this:
1. Take the advice of an anon who uses his masters to live as a NEET permanently. He enrols on PhDs and then shows up lackadaisically. I'm not clear on the details and I forget which board he posted on but apparently it takes a long time to disqualify him and in the meantime he still gets the cucksalary.
2. As a NEET, grok Miles Mathis theory and use it to make a legitimate discovery. Then translate the discovery's plain English description into mainstream gibberish and file a physics patent.

I don't have to do the first because I'm disabled. Currently working on the second.

>>12179481
>2-3 postdoc rounds

Imagine being this fucking delusional. Either you do ONE postdoc in a top 20 uni or you just DONT. If your advisor is not well connected enough to help you get a position you sure as hell won't get one.

>>12182761
>2. As a NEET, grok Miles Mathis theory and use it to make a legitimate discovery. Then translate the discovery's plain English description into mainstream gibberish and file a physics patent.
You can file a patent application for a pink elephant. Just as in this case, don't expect it to be granted. Also discoveries are not patentable, garbage even more so.
>I don't have to do the first because I'm disabled.
Neo-Cleo?
>Currently working on the second.
Please let us know how this goes.

t.Patent attorney.

>>12182178
>for the love of research
I LoVe SciEnce!! cringe
>Why did you accept such a shitty stipend?
The absolute cancer that is academic culture dictates that you should be glad you got a PhD offer, and that the stipend is secondary.
In fact, starting PhD salary in the UK is 12.000; I have an industrial PhD which pays me more. I am not aware of any PhD making more than 18.000 in the UK.
>TA
My PI is like, if you want to be a TA you have to compensate me for the lost research time by coming in on the weekend.

What the fuck do you mean "go private" ?
Not everyone is familiar with shitty burger slang.

>>12182202
>wanting a house and mortgage like some boomer
you always pay mortgage, the issue is if it's your own or the landlords.

>>12176265
>oh look the ball is bouncing while it's rolling and I can calculate it's bounciness AND tell you the influence of a Pulsar over in Andromeda Galaxy!
Wow anon, I'll hire you immediately for 150k a year. Who needs to make money with business, engineering or marketing if you can calculate that.

>>12182819
>Either you do ONE postdoc in a top 20 uni or you just DONT.
I did two in national laboratories. There are far more with a PhD than you can fit into the top 20 universities who can still do valuable work. I find it hard to believe you have any academic experience.
>If your advisor is not well connected enough to help you get a position you sure as hell won't get one.
And here is the second part that makes me sceptical about your experience, if you have any. It takes a lot of time to get proper understanding of who is well connected or not. The PI in my group got onto a funding board while I did my PhD and BAM! all of a sudden he was well connected and money flowed in. And you could not have known that either in advance.

>>12175729
scientists can't build anything

>>12178049
No I completely disagree with your dismissal of his home owning complaint. It's absolutely criminal that the university system is locking its researchers out of stable homes.
While he can't change it on his own, it isn't a garbage point. It's something people should be pressuring universities about a whole lot more.

>>12182978
>I did two in national laboratories. There are far more with a PhD [...] I find it hard to believe you have any academic experience.

There are several ways of doing research that do not involve slaving away for years jumping from post doc to post doc. That you had a mediocre curriculum does not mean everyone does. I did my PhD in Paris, i am currently doing my post-doc in Harvard, and my father is fully tenured. I have heard everything you can possibly hear about academia through his perspective, and confirmed through my own experience. Every country has its specific thing going on, but some unwritten rules are common to all. If you are doing two post docs, you have no right to fucking complain about the current state of academia. Not only you are enabling administrators into thinking it's ok hire people on precarious terms, but you delude yourself into thinking you're gonna make it the same way a gambler think his luck will turn out.

Were I not accepted in that program or similar ones, i would not bother continuing an academic career. There are great private labs that do great work and actually work with academia. You'll be going there eventually, better sooner than later mate.

>And here is the second part that makes me sceptical about your experience, if you have any. It takes a lot of time to get proper [...]And you could not have known that either in advance.

Again, you think you know shit because you've been accustomed to doing things the wrong way because you've been listening to idiots, but you really are in the wrong here. Some professors are adept at finding fundings. Some suck dick. It's not about luck, it is actually a learned skill. How do you know if a prof is balling ? If his "team" is made of one phd student and one post doc, that's one hint.

It's pretty easy to track former post docs or phd students and check in what proportion do they get tenure. That's another hint.

>>12182862
>I LoVe SciEnce!! cringe
Grow the fuck up instead of using buzzwords to keep yourself from formulating a coherent thought. You don't get into academia for money. You either like the shit you're doing or this life isn't for you.

>The absolute cancer that is academic culture dictates that you should be glad you got a PhD offer, and that the stipend is secondary.
In fact, starting PhD salary in the UK is 12.000; I have an industrial PhD which pays me more. I am not aware of any PhD making more than 18.000 in the UK.

Stipends can be negotiated. Everything can be negotiated, and everyone, including HRs in private sectors, will try to shame you for asking for more. Grow some fucking balls. Or get an industrial one if the money is not satisfactory : that's what you did, and that's also what i did in France.
>TA
Stand up to your PI you cocksucking sperg. Take the TA position and when he asks why you don't show up during the week ends, tell him to shove it.
>go private
What are you, retarded ? It means to do your r&d in the private sector intead of whoring up to stingy professors.

>>12174357
You get to forever feel superior to engineers and CS people, regardless of how your life turns out, which is priceless

>>12174357
anon please tell me about research

>>12181401
>>12182207
Thx for the comments and tips
I really appreciate

>>12183140
>tell him to shove it
>tell your boss
>who will award you with a PhD
>to shove it
>coherent thought

>>12184039
what do you want to know?

>>12183140
>Stand up to your PI
As mentioned earlier, one PhD student went as far as suing her PI in court. I am not sure she will ever get her PhD.
Success, in your view?

I want to do a PhD because I think it's the only chance I have to get out of my shithole country. Can someone from a third world country get a job in a western country with a master's degree in engineering and average grades?

>>12181201
>imagine techniques
LSD does that and we've had it for ages.

>>12185260
>Can someone from a third world country get a job in a western country with a master's degree in engineering and average grades?
Unlikely. In some countries like Germany a lot of people have a PhD (there are at least two types of doctorates there), so you won't survive the competition.

>PhD in computational chemistry/drug design
>working with friendly PI
>designing useful workflows for drug design that anyone can use
>live with gf in a 3 bed house pay 2k / yr in rent
>working almost entirely from home in my comfy office
>learning and doing lots of cool shit

glad im not a physics autist

>>12183140
>starting PhD salary in the UK is 12.000

Not true. The UK stipend for PhDs is nationally set (at least for sciences) at ~£15.2k and it increases with RPI annually. Some programmes increase it to £18k if they're well funded.

>>12185331
>1250 pounds a month
What kind of quality of life does that buy you in bongland?

>>12177155
>photophysics and spectroscopy

Kek, me too, though not Raman. It is cursed.

However, as >>12185331 pointed out the "standard" PhD stipend is around £15k. I get around £21k currently due to applying for other funding. Used to get some income from tutoring undergrads, but not doing so this year.

>>12185324
>live with gf in a 3 bed house pay 2k / yr in rent
There's three scenarios where I can see this being the case:
>Your "3 bed house" is a hole in the ground, possibly with a tarpaulin
>Your dad owns the house
>You live in a third-world country

>>12177155
>Do you want to "help humanity advance" or some similar pop-sci shit?
Actually yes and I've managed to separate the ego from the logical goal, but sadly I'm a dropout and there's only so much that I can do. I don't think that people who truly remove the ego from the equation of contributing to science actually end up contributing to it, because the drive to stay in the race drops to zero and the level of enlightenment needed to actually have the energy to hustle so hard all the while expecting zero in return, is practically unreachable for a primate who's entirely driven by his social status desires. I think that this is a problem that humanity should start addressing soon before it's too late, the problem of forcing one's consciousness to perform calorie-intense tasks when there's a zero personal payout in the end. Not everything should be run through and evalued by reward centers because some things are simply too abstract for them and their payout is intergenerational. Think about this: how many papers have you seen out there that are written completely anonymously and do not have a traceable financial/status gain tied to them? From all of organized academia's existence, even if it's as easy to publish an anonymous paper as simply posting it anywhere on the net and shilling it a bit, the single case ironically ends up being 4chan and that was just pure luck that wasn't repeated again. People simply refuse to engage in science without a personal gain, and if you forced them to not include their names under the title, then they'd simply not do it at all save for some minor exploratory ventures (which are selfish again).

>>12185352
>quality of life

>>12185445
So you're a dropout who just sits around shitposting on 4chan all day, and you tell others that they should do their job without any regard for their personal wellbeing?

Sincerely, fuck you.

>>12185352
Quick maths suggests 5000 quarter pound burgers.

>>12185445
So you're a dropout who just sits around shitposting on 4chan all day, and you tell others that they should do their job without any regard for their personal wellbeing?

Sincerely, pretty based

>>12185008

Fucking retarded, the both of you.

I'm not telling you to litterally tell him to go fuck himself you fucking idiot, i'm talking about explaining in polite but honest and firm terms why his offer was ridiculous to begin with. If you are doing your PhD right you are probably working at home like crazy anyway. What the fuck, do I have to tell you how you should behave with your boss ? Quit being a crybaby, stand up to your PI/advisor if you have to. I did it, and we still have a very good rapport. Their interest is in you slaving away like a cuck. Your interest is in your mental and physical health. I'm sure you guys can work something out provided you do not behave with him the way you behave here because I swear to god you deserve a smack on the head if you're OP.

>>12185220
There's standing up to your boss and there's trying to screw him. There are ways to defend your interest that do not necessarily jeopardize your relation with your professor or PI. But you fucking autists wouldnt acknowledge a middle ground if it bit you in the ass.

>>12174357
Sad

>T MD in Eastern Europe,making 10k euros a month

>>12185331
I just quoted the guy. But my point still stands. Also, you guys are getting a fucking diploma out of it. If anyone's getting screwed, its the professors negotating contracts and fundings without any sort of commission or compensation. Litterally any other field rewards such initiatives. Academia is a fucking disgrace and anyone not going in the private sector are smoothbrained or autistic.

>>12185700
>If you are doing your PhD right you are probably working at home like crazy anyway.

People keep saying things like this but I basically work around 40h per week, almost entirely at the office or lab and things are going just fine.

>>12185700
>There's standing up to your boss and there's trying to screw him.
So how would you go about it? The patent application was already filed.

>>12185390
>Your "3 bed house" is a hole in the ground, possibly with a tarpaulin
~90 m^2 in a nice market town
>Your dad owns the house
I own the house
>You live in a third-world country
Semi. It's the North of the UK, very pretty though

>>12185911
>Own the house
>Pay rent

nigger what

>>12178401
>lmao just become homeless you tard
Unironically been thinking about doing this. If any anons in the thread have done it, how do you deal with electricity/keeping food? How do you deal with getting laid??

>>12174357
>1 out of a million people will read
kek, try 1 out of 100 million

>>12185994
I remember a postdoc sleeping under his desk for a while. He successfully evaded security.

>>12186130
Specifically thinking of living in an RV

Speaking of academia why do I have to pay for a copy of my grades diploma or any paper coming from the administration for that matter?

I already pay 5.7k a year

REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>12186247
Shoulda learned a trade

Man I'm glad I dropped science and am pursuing a JD (for free) instead.
Since you have a physics PhD though, couldn't you work for some kind of quant finance firm?

>>12174365
okay chinky

>>12186416
The meme finance jobs are mostly interested in the theoretical physics people, not spectroscopists.

>>12185773
>So how would you go about it? The patent application was already filed.
Not him but shut up already with your nitpicked example lmao. NO ONE cares about the lawsuit in some noname Scandinavian country, jfc lmao

>>12186494
Nah I'm in astrophysics and grads get inundated with quant offers

>>12186494
I heard that prop trading shops cared mostly about your software engineering and mathematical modeling skills. I'm referring to trading firms in general, not the top ones like Rentech, Two Sigma etc for whom I assume a PhD isn't even the bare minimum

>>12186551
Tell me more about rentech and two sigma anon. How much would you earn with a PhD + multiple ML papers and patents?

>>12186568
m8 I'm in law school how the fuck should I know about the top quant finance firms' hiring policies?
That said I remember reading somewhere a long time ago (on WSO I think) that for Rentech, a top PhD was barely enough for an internship and that they pretty much recruited exclusively from the cream of the crop of academia. Whether this has changed, or if it was never true to begin with, I don't know
As for quant firms in general, I think they have multiple (around six or seven?) interview rounds during which you're tested on various subjects, mostly software engineering and mathematics but I'm guessing the specific subjects depend on the firm's specialization (a prop trading shop will probably have some mental math tests, an HFT firm will have its own thing, etc) and you should obviously take that into account
Anyway, a PhD, patents and publications would get you a foot in the door I'm guessing, but you'd still have to go through that hiring process if you're not a genuine big shot. Regarding earnings, IIRC quant finance was at an all-time low a couple years ago salary-wise

>>12186670
Thanks anon, just assumed you were in one since you mentioned them.

However, that does not sound worth it at all. You'll get a better return with a startup. And you'll get less stress staying in academia or aiming to work for bigcorp.

Also I noticed you said "all time low", that's probably still pretty high, right? Like going from $200000 to $150000 would be an "all time low".

>>12186550
Well I'm in spectroscopy, certainly get no quant offers and have never heard of anyone going for a quant job from here

How is it studying photophysics and spectroscopy?

>>12186703
>that does not sound worth it at all.
A startup is more risky, academia pays way less, bigcorps I don't know but I don't think any industry would pay as much as quant finance does, except perhaps high level tech positions but at this point you're looking at a similarly difficult hiring process
>still pretty high
For sure, it's just that bonuses are way lower than a decade ago. This is true for all finance jobs, though.
Counting bonuses, I think 150k is fairly entry-level, and you would expect to earn between 250 and 500k in the mid-to-long term. Keep in mind this is in the NYC area and other similarly big (and expensive) cities, and also that American quants command the highest salaries and bonuses last time I checked

>>12186734
Probably there's a bit of a difference between developing new spectroscopic techniques and applying existing spectroscopic techniques to study the photophysics of your particular system. I'm on the latter side and it's solid midwit territory, on the positive side you can drag your way through a PhD and tag onto any number of projects you like despite being incapable of doing any actual physics.

>>12185352
That is minimum wage.

You can rent a place. Cheaper in North England for that and pay the bills. The odd weekend treat out with mates.

Then that is it.

If your interest is purely intellectual, it will see you through, fine.

>>12186751
I don't know enough to gauge where it sits on the challenging scale in physics but photophysics definitely looks interesting.

I think it is also interesting to see what the findings in photophysics will mean for other parts of physics or real world applications. I've not looked into that part to comment on it.

Anons is it better to just be a wagie???

>>12186494
>>12186550
You can also try companies like McKinsey, that tend to recruit graduates without much industrial experience.

>>12187095
Define "better".

Better paid? Yes. Better career prospects? Yes. Better security? Yes.

But I'm basically about five seconds away from necking myself at any given moment, so all of that becomes less relevant compared to the absolute existential dread of "is this all it's ever going to be" that wagecucking fills me with.

>>12187631
> better in every way
> still want to neck yourself

Ah fuck

>>12186754
But why do they pay PhD students, highly skilled workers, so little? It's not like that in Norway.

>>12187631
I wish I was one of those trust fund people. Then I could do literally whatever I wanted without worrying about rent or food or other necessities.

>>12186734
Anything that has to do with optics and spectroscopy will butter your bread. It is the field that blows me away by their progress every five years. Time dependent electron microscopy is becoming common, shits crazy. Non-linear optical techniques are also taking off.

Flipside is that if you have a subpar adivisor or a abrainlet you will be left behind.

>>12188791
Because they aren't guaranteed to output meaningful work

>>12188791
There are many reasons to that. I'll try to be as exhaustive as possible.

First,Because you're not only working, you are being taught a skill. A PhD is a certification the same way your masters is. Also, phd students are really just that for the most part. Students. They're kids, they have no experience in the workforce, and have only done some superficial research work if they ever did some, and they are selected based on grades, which in no way are a guarantee that said student will be good at innovating. Also, for an entire year, as the student discovers the field, nothing is published. One fourth (or third or fifth) of your phd will be operated at a complete loss. Any industry would find that unacceptable.

Second, because publishing is high risk low reward activity for all financial parties involved. Very rarely do phds yield incredible advancements in a field, yet alone anything that can later be used for monetary benefits. The technology readiness level (TRL) of academic studies is often very low, even in experimental phds or engineering ones. For example, there's a guy who recently had a talk on time varying permittivity. How the fuck do you implement that ? Can it even be implemented ? If the answer is no, why should we pay around half a million dollar (and that's ONE phd contract with all things included, equipment, stipends, possible trips, publication fees, man hours for the professor) for this shit ? I mean yeah we have a moral obligation and a very-long term benefits to stay ahead of the tech curve, but for the most part academia is just a gigantic circlejerk were 99% of what is produced will never ever serve humanity in any way. So why should anyone invest serious money on a phd student ?
Third, publish or perish culture forces the professor to maximize what funds he has, and funding is not often a given. If he gets, say, 1 million, he'll try to make the most of it.

Cont.

>>12189024
Cont'd.

If he gets say a million buck, he'll try to get as many phds as possible and a few post docs. And that requires him to pay everyone with the minimal amount possible. Now there can be some leeway. Maybe he understands that paying minimal wage can fuck someone's morale and give you some extra. On the contrary, maybe he won't give you extra because he fears you might not achieve publication requirements in time, and will save up for an extra year. If minimum wages for phd were set, that could help, but again, the student status, as well as reason 1 and two, do not help at all.

Fourth,and that is true for many other fields, when you're working for something like this, your main drive the satisfaction your work brings you (and also the fact that after 4 years doing this shit sometimes you dont really see yourself doing anything else) That's why some faggots are willing to get into 2 postdocs like that faggot above in order to keep doing research with the hopes they'll be tenured. People are way more willing to sacrifice their dignity if that means doing something they like doing. And so even when the offer is shit, the demand stays high. If people were to think "fuck, there's no way i'm doing this for a waiter's wage and with no tenure", there would be far more tenures and far less precarious contracts.

And last but not least, there is no drive for research in this century (yet). Many labs receive a fraction of what they would receive in the sixties. When technologies weren't shared with the eastern bloc and vice versa, that gave way more drive for the state to put the cash to stay ahead technologically. There is no drive for this anymore.

>>12189011
>>12189024
>>12189035
>meanwhile

>>12185716
there is no real private sectors for what I want to do. What do you recomnend?

>>12189068
This cant be real

>>12174357
change career to CHEMIST

>>12187631
This is where I think basic pay will have a lot of impact. I never did my PhD or postdocs for the money but my student debt meant I had to go to industry. That was the first time I experienced this weird concept of "disposable income". My old lifestyle is hard to shake so I still hardly spend much.

>>12189035
>If he gets say a million buck, he'll try to get as many phds as possible and a few post docs. And that requires him to pay everyone with the minimal amount possible. Now there can be some leeway. Maybe he understands that paying minimal wage can fuck someone's morale and give you some extra.
Academia is not big on morale. For instance, in the 90's a lot of Chinese students were afraid of going home, and with a good reason too. So a lot of professors split their postdoc budgets and hired two Chinese postdocs for the normal budget post of one. These Chinese guys just worked and slept with no money for much else. I think that was the reason why we now have so many Chinese postdocs in academia. And the professors got away with it, publishing skyrocketed and few cared about how this was achieved.

>>12174357
But if you don’t get one how will you be big brain and get all the nice post doc positions and invent/discover something amazing

It’s a catch 22 any way you looks at it

>boohoo me no get girls because le PHD

Grow up and man up.

>>12189125
Getting girls is pretty straightforward in university, but building a long-term relationship (which OP was talking about) is more difficult when you're bound to be moving every few years for the next decade but don't know exactly when or where.

>>12189125
>oy vey

>>12189070
I'll assume that you're actually asking for advice.

You could switch to similar but more applied fields. If you're doing optics or electromagnetism, there are many job offers on this topic. Hell, if you join an R&D department, as it is typical for a PhD, you could even publish some fundamental papers on the side.

If you can't do that, chances are (but there are of course exceptions) that you may have done the wrong career choice. It happens. At some point you have to come to terms with what you're doing and what you actually want.

From my personal perspective, from what I see daily on this board, on reddit, IRL, academia suffers from a diploma inflation. PhDs are not as prestigious as they used to be, and tenure positions as well as fundings didn't keep up with the demand. Because of how few positions there are, people want their horses to win and nepotism is fucking rampant. My advisor, an associate professor, just lost a full prof position to a woman that had, in her whole career, only one phd student. He, on the other hand, has at least three at all times and he's been topping 2500 citations a year for the last three. This is how absurd academia has become.

When I was an undergrad my dream was to get a tenure track position at some world class city, like Paris, NYC, LA, HK, Singapore... I know that will be absolutely impossible now. But i could just go and find some engineering position in any of these cities for similar salaries, they're dime a dozen.

As to my earlier comment about autists, not knowing when to compromise is one hell of a sign that someone is on the spectrum. And we both know that A LOT of academicians are on that fucking spectrum alright.

>>12189096
> I think that was the reason why we now have so many Chinese postdocs in academia.

That's partly the reason, but the real reason is because chinese people give scholarships like hotcakes, and in order to get a tenure in China you have to have international experience (i lived inTaiwan for a few years, i was a TA/RA in National Taiwan Uni.). And in your case, european contracts are usually stolen by the industry. They won't do the slightest bit of r&d, but they sure won't say no to free bucks.

And since chinese give money, that's one more source of income. In our lab there was a guy who'd bring those fuckers in droves.

>>12185757
Good on you mate, as long as you publish

>>12189140
Great post but I’m on the spectrum so I have to add my own 3 cents in some capacity.

>>12189161
Well its my personal belief that even if you are, you still are a sentient being capable (and better at it than most if you made it this far) of logical reasoning and decision making. Also, academia has this annoying tendency to give tunnel vision to phd students. When you are constantly surrounded with likeminded people, that tenured profs are the big cheese, you kinda believe that is all there's in life. The good news is that less and less people believe so as they become more cynical and see their colleagues stagnate. My entire lab wants to go private. the only guy who wants to be a lecturer is a mess, barely speaks english and his advisor is out of any loop there is.

>>12189140
>You could switch to similar but more applied fields.
I kind of fell for this meme and ended up doing work that, while motivated by industry relevance and answering relevant questions in physics, is simultaneously not something that the private sector would ever bother with and not particularly interesting from a fundamental physics point of view. I wanted both and got neither.

>My advisor, an associate professor, just lost a full prof position to a woman that had, in her whole career, only one phd student
I've noticed similar stuff going on. Hell, looking at the university vacancy announcements in the physics magazine I subscribe to, they invariably include something about seeking a candidate that would help promote diversity and inclusion. When a post-doc was hired for our group, one of the people making the choice was casually talking to me about how they preferred a candidate because she was a woman (who ended up getting the position) and nobody bats an eye.

>not knowing when to compromise is one hell of a sign that someone is on the spectrum
Yes, but as you point out a lot of people are on said spectrum, quite possibly including the PI. Can lead to interesting situations, and being professional becomes necessary when dealing with these kinds of people. It's important to remain non-emotional and polite, even (or especially) if they aren't.

When making a demand (such as "I want to do TA work") either find a written rule that justifies your request, or alternatively ask someone in a higher position at the department/university to back you up. Preferably someone that isn't buddies with the PI. If you don't know who that is, find someone that could help; this might be HR or someone providing pastoral support. Try to have things in writing, email is fine.

Not the guy you're replying to btw, in case this causes confusion.

>>12174357
Hey, thanks for slaving away so I can read your brilliant papers for free a month or so after they debut. It's people like you that make it possible to obtain a knowledge base comparable to several PhDs for free while I work my comfy desk job.

>>12179066
I got a msc in pchem and I'm starting a phd in physics, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility, though he still sounds like a cunty fag

>>12189193
You make some very good points. The only issue i have here is about the whole TA problem (which isn't my issue, but OP's).

Here is what we know :
>OP asked for a TA position
>PI told him that he had to work week ends.

There are many, many ways to solve this situation pacifically. But the story abruptly stops here. And I suspect it's because the OP declined the offer, and is now whining about why he didnt have it. He could take on the offer and tell the PI just to deal with it and explaining how unreasonable his offer was to start with, even though it's a ballsy move and could get you in trouble (but how much trouble really ? For a few hours of teaching? And you really needed the money ? What kind of heartless fuck would take the bread out of your mouth if you pleaded your case well enough ?) Or you could take on his offer, show up the first week ends for a few hours and just stop doing it altogether, pretexting its easier to work at home, esp. with no meetings scheduled, etc. This is employee boss relations 101.

Lots of people do this shit. They ask for something, and instead of working out the possible solutions, would rather whine about it (while making sure the PI is not within earshot).

Yesterday, a guy complained that his professor didnt read his dissertation draft. When we discussed the issue together, he told me the guy asked the prof, prof said yes, but he never contacted him back to give his feedback (the prof is very busy). It turned out the guy didn't even arrange a meeting or ask for possible meeting dates, or even just remind him to read the draft ! That is insane. What if the professor forgot ? And it turned out he did !
If i didn't tell him that, the dude would be going around in circles whining on and on about his professor not reading his shit.

>>12182988
i built an xray spectrometer while still doing my msc hbu

>>12174357
ngl you're pretty retarded if you went into academia and the basic considerations of academic jobs (which literally everybody makes clear to you before you start) are such big problems for you.

people do this because they love the subjects they study and want to have freedom in their research. I finished a PhD in the UK, after that I moved to a postdoc in Singapore, then Japan, and I'm considering Hong Kong or China next. I'm absolutely loving the freedom to go anywhere in the world and do the shit I love without having to work the usual 9-5 wagie lifestyle. this is the absolutely perfect way of life for me and I'm enjoying every day of this.

btw, 15k is a comfortable PhD salary and you don't have to spend your time TAing like American students do, so it's genuinely a sweet deal. if you went to do a PhD to get rich, then you're doubly retarded.

just finish your PhD and go work in the City if that's all you want from life. they target PhD graduates often.

>>12182274
There are tiers even in the third world. But my point really was that if you made what I made but in a higher cost of living place then you'd be very fucking poor. Therefore OP is very fucking poor. I've been to the UK and god damn is everything so fucking expensive there. Insanely more expensive than it is here, so I would not see myself surviving there with the same amount of money.

>>12186494
you sound like this dude at my old department whose only skill was knowing how to operate the laser and plot shit using origin, he had no idea about laser physics or a programming language. learn fucking skills

>>12189259
Is doing a post doc in nus or ntu the best way to get a position there for us ang mohs ? Or is it better to do it in like, a top us university and then try your luck there ?

>>12186734
basically prep a sample, measure it with time resolved methods, plot it and get some kinetics information

>>12189269
uhh, in my experience they love hiring locally so it's definitely good to come to Singapore before you apply for faculty-level positions, but they are also obsessed with credentials so having a top school on your CV will do wonders for your application. if you don't have a degree from some fancy university, then I'd recommend first going to a top school for a short stint and then doing a postdoc in Singapore. once you're in SG, it's piss-easy to keep getting postdoc positions because a lot of PIs have shitloads of money, so you can stay there for a while and try your luck applying several times.

>>12189267
>learn fucking skills
Who says I haven't? I know some python (who doesn't), have taken courses in nonlinear optics and even dabbled in doing computational chemistry myself. It's just that they're not spectroscopist skills. Spectroscopy work is basically summarized by anon in >>12189270, and hence nobody looking for laser aficionados or skilled programmers will be specifically targeting spectroscopists.

Just switch to private sector if academia bothers you that much.

>>12178118
>YOU MUST WORK FOR FREE LIKE A FUCKING MONK
Yes

>>12188791
>It's not like that in Norway.
Tell more.

>>12174357
Leverage your PhD to get a well-paid 9-5, M-F job and pursue your research as an avocation. Marry a girl who just wants to be a housewife and not a social butterfly. Develop a network of friends who are also high-level amateurs or even professionals in your field. I seem to recall that the guy who invented CAT scan was such a person and let's not forget that the gentleman scholar was the norm in previous centuries.

>>12174357
>UK
>15k
>switzerland
>70k
lmao the absolute state of the UK

>>12189140
yes, I am.
I’m not locked in on anything yet, but I would love to do theoretical physics, as fundamental as possible. If I can live comfy doing that I’m okay with my life. Do you think that is possible?

>>12189140
>>12189161
also I'm not autistic like this bitch ass anon if that helps

>>12189154
isnt it because chinese have at least decent education and there are like 1.3 BILLION that want to leave the shithole?

>>12189228
if you buy the journal it doesnt do shit for OP anyway, so go ahead. you're only hurting people that deserve it.

>>12179028
300k starting too I bet?

>>12189228
Don't worry anon, your tax dollars are at work partially funding OP and also that fourth wave feminist research.

shoulda gone plasma physics OP. very dynamic,energetic field right now in both academia and private research. UK is very active-Culham has tons of new opportunities for plasma physicists and engineers.

>>12182207
>(and a perfect place and pretext to hook up with some cute chinese phd student)

>>12190063
Solid state physics is probably the safest if you want to have an escape route to industry.

Couldn't you just go into finance after PhD?

>>12189068
I see Diogenes is up to his old shitposting tricks

>>12190091
Never undestood why amerimutt baby in the pic is mulatto colored. It should be hapa colored

>>12190098
Or computational physics

>>12189964
Personally, "living comfy" would be defined as getting in a tenure track. You'll start with shitty salaries, sure, but it's still better than non tenure and way more stable. Problem is, by the time you reach that goal, by nowadays' standards, you'll be around your mid thirties if you ever reach that goal. Meanwhile, peeps have been spending 10 years earning money, halfway into paying up their house loans / mortgage.

I'm not in fundamental, so take what i say with a grain of salt, but i'm certain it's insanely hard to get tenure. The fields themselves are really hard to grasp, funding is a bitch because there is no direct incentive to encourage working there.

Now i may sound a tad pessimistic, but it's not impossible to have a good career, provided you had a great thesis with lots of good papers and citations, a well respected prof in the field, and a top uni, you may face some nepotic bullshit but you'll get there, especially if you use nepotism to your favor.

In my opinion, academia isn't comfy at all. What's comfy is to get a nice r&d job. You'll be decently paid, as a highly skilled worker you could potentially get more benefits than your average wagie, and getting an r&d position at some big industrial firm, say, Raytheon, or Thales, is basically the same as getting tenured in terms of stability

>>12189985
That would make no fucking sense. Why would China pay billions in phd scholarships every year for their citizens to leave and never go back ? As a matter of fact, a growing number of chinese that are doing their phd or part of it abroad come back.

China may be a shithole, but it's a shithole that would give you a tenure far quicker than any western country would. Also, it really isn't that bad if you're paid well and are Chinese, believe me. It's hell for westerners, and i'm not talking about discrimination, but about how the country and the mentality is built, but it's way, WAY more bearable and arranging for them.

Just think of the flirting game(among many, many other issues). Chinese men are awkward as fuck, because their parents take care of that shit. In America, they not only have to step up their game, but face stigma due to them being chinese (small dicks, etc.), different behaviors, and well, most of them just suck at speaking english in an elegant enough way. Most of the shit that i said also stands for job interviews too. Chinese just have it better in China.

>>12190091
Get back to masturbating to BBC, polfag

>>12190106
Totally. But you gotta do the right phd I guess ? Applied maths is a good way to get boco money

>Start a PhD a couple years back
>Advisor isn't a big name (yet, still relatively young) but does solid work and is very involved and accessible
>Everything going well, funding for extra things like a few months' visit to collaborators to try computational things
>Three publications (not first-author) by early second year, one first-author paper at writing stage, conferences lined up
>Advisor forced to leave due to reasons
>Department throws me under a new advisor who knows jack shit about my research, is busy with other things and has a reputation for not being at all involved
>Funding was through the previous advisor so suddenly there's no money for anything
>Corona closes down labs for months, can't do any further experimental work
>All conferences cancelled
>Stuck with paper, working from home with zero external input or guidance despite repeated requests for such from collaborators and advisor
>Lose motivation, do essentially nothing for half a year
>Second year ends, I have no first-author papers, no conferences attended, and no direction

And here we are. Labs have reopened and I'm picking up the pieces, but god damn did it all go to shit real fast. I can probably still scrape together a PhD but I'm finding it hard to cope with the fact that it will be significantly less impressive than it could have been had things gone as they should have.

>>12190818
To add to this, I recognize that I'm not without blame. There were many things I could have used to lockdown time for, and for a while before/after the lockdown I was also not really putting in all my effort.

>>12182207
does getting grades still matter at the phd level? i am flunking everything now that i'm in..

>>12190876
Probably this is again different for US students, but at least where I am there is no grading within a PhD program. There are no examinations, there are no courses (unless you want to take some), there is no grading for the final degree.

However, grades are pretty important for getting into a good PhD program.

>>12190726
thanks for your input.

>>12190856
Honestly, as long as you got your first year done well there is no reason you couldn't keep up the good work.

Lots of asian phd students get stuck with a team of 15 phd students a professor who just couldn't give a fuck. Some still manage to become brilliant scholars (some, not all, certainly not the majority).

You have to crank your discipline up. You already have experience writing papers, so you know when you got enough material to be publishable. Also, conference papers are wayyyyy easier to get published.

>Stuck with paper, working from home with zero external input or guidance despite repeated requests for such from collaborators and advisor

It all depends on how you've been asking. Doing things amicably sometimes just doesn't work. You should at least set up a weekly or bi weekly meeting with your professor so that you keep him updated. And most importantly, sometimes you just HAVE to show you're pissed at your predicament. If you breeze through your presentation and the professor has no input ever, you gotta tell him. Also, formalize any review request. Be done asking nicely. Your professor HAS to review any draft you write. Give him the draft and immediately suggest a meeting date to discuss the draft.

Keyword is discipline. If you stay in academia or go private, you will have to deal with similar situations your entire life. Sometimes you'll hang out with inspiring people, sometimes you'll have to contend with mediocre fucks. It is up to you whether you want their mediocrity to fuck your career up or not.

You had a great start, we're only in october, don't fuck this up. Also, conferences are going virtual. Don't worry about not attending, especially if your funding is now fuck all. That's one less plane ticket to pay up.

>>12177837
>Stop thinking about this for a few days and then you'll probably forget about it.

Yeah. That's a cope.

>>12191557
Eh. How?

>>12191511
Thanks, anon. Things have been a bit better since late July when I was able to resume somewhat normal working (though office work is still heavily discouraged). I'll try to get weekly meetings going, that would probably also kick me into gear periodically. We did have regular meeting around August but those petered out, I definitely shouldn't have let that happen. I've found working from home really challenging, but that is entirely up to my own discipline.

>>12190461
The not so subtle hint is that the husband is not the father of the child.

>>12190726
>Now i may sound a tad pessimistic, but it's not impossible to have a good career, provided you had a great thesis with lots of good papers and citations, a well respected prof in the field, and a top uni, you may face some nepotic bullshit but you'll get there, especially if you use nepotism to your favor.
I agree. I know someone who is incredible sharp and learns languages, poetry and calligraphy with same ease as theoretical physics. And even with a top notch PhD from a leading university, early invitation to be a reviewer, it was still 3 postdocs before tenure. And indeed there was a case of losing out in a case of nepotism.
Academia is rather brutal these days and the environment favours cheaters and frauds. Retraction watch is sad reading, especially how it is "leading" people getting caught. And you can see how they achieved that position.

>take meme courses in (((theoretical physics))) during undergrad
>specialize in molecular simulations in grad school. Still get to fuck around with some cool shit.
>earn big dosh working for big pharma
you dun fucked up my dude

>>12185445
>I've managed to separate the ego from the logical goal, but sadly I'm a dropout
The fact that you've dropped out but feel the need to write a long as diatribe about why they should be fucked over for the greater good is a huge sign your egos still in it. Otherwise why the fuck would you be posting all this shit when you feel the need to tell personal details which discredit your argument.

>>12192672
The fucked up thing about this is that my father, a third world immigrant, with the shittiest of advisors, still managed to get a tenure track after two years as an adjunct lecturer in a top 30 in the shanghai ranking. That's how good things used to be 30 years ago. I really just can't fathom why people that are so smart just willingly partake in this pyramid scheme.

>>12185390
link/describe other funding pls

im on 17k in L O N D O N

im with friendly big name PI who lets me do whatever i want

>>12185445

That has nothing to do with scientific recognition. It's about the intrinsic reward system built within us. We do shit because shit makes us happy. Scientific recognition is the way to go, so is your career, but trust me, both of them just are not enough to justify staying in academia. Call it selfish, but science make people happy. It's about the little things. The funding that has been accepted, the paper published "as is", the experiment that is finally working. People have their own ways of making sense to their lives. Gentlemen scholars of the ages did it mostly for the fun of it than for actual scientific recognition. Call that selfish if you want, but my point is that people mostly do not do it for the recognition. there are 4.5 million phds in the world. The ones that get any kind of significant recognition in their field are a tiny fraction of that (plenary and keynote speakers are usually like what, 1 to 5% of all conference attendees ? For a conference of 1000 people, you'd get 5 plenaries, and a dozen keynotes ?).

If I may, you sound like a NEET who believes himself some kind of greek philosopher. We gots bills to pays dude.

>>12174365
Kek do PhD fags really? you're going to write a paper about slightly improved bounds estimates for operators on bare hilbert spaces that nobody will ever read.

say it with me ALL KNOWLEDGE IS NOT EQUALLY IMPORTANT

>>12193619
That paper you write is not what is the most important about doing a PhD, rather it is the set of skills you acquire to become a researcher. And that is what will serve you also in industry should you decide to switch. That is what I did.

>>12193378
The funding I get is a combination of 20k euros (about £18k) per year from a funding body back in my home country, and a £3k/year "bonus" that my advisor threw in for saving him a lot of money (my funding was originally through him). The former isn't available for foreigners, unfortunately.

I was originally meant to get £15k/year, but wanted more so I applied for what I hoped was top-up funding back home but ended up being awarded another full funding. Since having two full maintenance stipends was against the terms of my original funding (but apparently not the second one), the original maintenance contribution was removed, and I kept the larger full maintenance and got some extra on top.

>>12193730
I negotiated my own PhD contract.
My story is so crazy I doubt anybody would actually think it was believable.

I have some questions anons.
Do most PhD positions in the west come with a stipend? Is it considered a job? Like how surgical residents are paid something (small) for the work they do.
Also, how competitive are TA positions in your experience? Does any PhD student that wants a job (any job) get one?

>>12194341
Unless we're talking humanities, in which its fucking blurry, phd positions do come with a stipend (so called funding we've been talking about this whole thread). Their terms may or may not be shaky. Don't hesitate to ask about it at some point during the application process. If you feel like it's not enough, don't haggle like you're haggling tapestry. Justify in a polite and respectful manner why you'd need the extra money (knowing full well it may jeopardize your application but sometimes not enough is just not enough). Do NOT apply for phds without any kind of scholarship. It'll fuck your morale up (working for free) and any prof who is okay with that is fucking dodgy to begin with. On the other hand, you're getting a diploma from this shit so don't be too extravagant, you're not in this for the money.

Some dude up there explained what you should be looking for in a phd advisor too. Check h indexes, how many papers published per year, how many citations.

As for ta positions, it depends on the uni. You normally shouldnt have too much trouble getting a TA position, but it will take some of your time. Don't overdo this shit and i suggest you avoid doing ta work the first year.

And as for jobs, if you're talking tenures, it's not granted anymore. In the private sector however, it depends in what uni you did your phd, but you'll probably be good. Companies usually prefer when you patented shit. Academia will consider your citations, and the impact factor of the journals you've been published in and whatnot.

>>12174357

> 15.000 a year

vs

> 500 EUR/month

beat me to it

>>12174357
Look for a job as a data scientist, they love hiring physicists. If you could pull off a PhD in physics you already know most of what you need to make yourself a competitive applicant, just do a coding bootcamp and you're set. It can be a hard job for a lot of people because of the amount of abstraction and math, but you're a physicist so it's easy.
Good luck anon.

>>12193827
Post your story bb

>>12174357
>>9.000 alone is rent
>>will never have a stable relationship
>>will always be a rentcuck
>>never own a house
>>making and leaving friends behind all day
A shitty zoomer who would probably kill himsel if social networks went down and he was unable to message his friends anymore.
Newsflash, life is fucking shit and you are nothing special, people do worse jobs their entire lives and friends come and go. If you pay 9k in rent, then where the fuck do you live, Ritz?
if wish people like you who are constantly glued to their phones get kidnapped and transported to some uninhabited island or something with, no other people around, no phones, no internet, maybe couple of books (literarure classics), and you fucking have to live there for a year on your own.

>>12195105
>Newsflash, life is fucking shit and you are nothing special
bro am not even gonna debunk your points I just wish you a better life because it seems things are going south for you.

>>12195119
Unless one is 0.01% of population, things are always going south and will never het better.

>>12194733
Thanks for the response anon.
>Do NOT apply for phds without any kind of scholarship
In your experience how common are these? In my country basically no PhD position, even in the best universities are funded.
>And as for jobs, if you're talking tenures, it's not granted anymore.
No I meant jobs for extra money while you're doing your PhD.
Extra question: How big of a problem is overqualification for PhDs looking for jobs in the private sector? I'm looking for an engineering PhD program and have heard some worrying things about companies not hiring PhDs.

>>12195477
So you want to work full-time *for free* to get your PhD, during which time you will also get another job because you didn't get funding? And then you're not even sure if you'll get a job in your field after that? Some well-thought-out life plan you have there, buddy

>>12195489
wat? no. The reason I'm looking to go abroad is that I don't want to work *for free*. But I've also heard that western companies are hesitant about hiring people with PhDs.

>>12195507
you are in the UK, where will you go "abroad"? Most western companies outsourced their r&d and will not hire someine like you.

>>12195535
>you are in the UK
I think you're confusing me with someone else, I'm not in the UK.

>>12182918
How do you think those engineers regulate the heat coming out of their devices cause they sure as shit don't study thermodynamics like physicists.

>>12195602
Are you not OP?

>>12195649
he asked a completely different question than op

>>12195477
You don't do a PhD unless you're paid for it. In the US, this involves a fuckload of TAing duties, while in Europe it's usually comfy cruisin' with no or very limited teaching. The salaries differ a lot by country, as you can see ITT.

>>12190773
>zoomer pinko literally can't stop thinking and posting about BBC

>>12195477
>In your experience how common are these? In my country basically no PhD position, even in the best universities are funded.

They're actually not very common. By law, as some anon said above, some countries will even forbid you from doing a PhD without a salary. But I really insist; don't do this shit. Even if you're a millionaire, not having a scholarship really takes out from the whole dignity of working as a PhD student. But that's my two cents on the issue, as I deeply believe that all work deserves pay.
>No I meant jobs for extra money while you're doing your PhD.
Oh yeah, my mistake. While you should be looking for a paid phd, i honestly suggest you avoid having a side hustle, except TAing or at the very least, teaching some classes to some high school kids at their home for some easy bucks.

>wat? no. The reason I'm looking to go abroad is that I don't want to work *for free*. But I've also heard that western companies are hesitant about hiring people with PhDs

The reason why he's asking is because you're kinda asking some weird ass questions buddy bud. Get a PhD with a good scholarship and do some TAing for the right reasons, which are getting to teach the basics (and review them again), not for getting money. If you don't have either your PhD will be shit and you won't get a job with a shitty PhD.

>>12185473
>So you're a dropout who just sits around shitposting on 4chan all day, and you tell others that they should do their job without any regard for their personal wellbeing?

that's literally 95% of 4chan

>>12195659
>Europe it's usually comfy cruisin' with no or very limited teaching
Just look out for other duties. In some countries here you are considered little more than slave labour and the professor has all incentives to keep you bound as long as possible.

>>12195723
In my opinion, the main reason why professors treats their phd students like that is because the students themselves do not have the spine to stand up to them.

my co-advisor, who was himself a phd student of my advisor, told how surprised he was when he saw him giving feedback on a paper I wrote. He told me he remembered how rude he was when reviewing paper drafts. My fellow phd students confirmed this shit. Turns out all you have to do is stare at the fucker and say "don't call me an idiot" for a professor to respect you. But you gotta be neurotypical to pull off this shit, you fucking spergs.

>>12174357
I feel like doing a decent master program is probably the best thing you can do.
>Can get hired for R&D
>Can earn a decent amout of money before you turn 30
>Don't have to slave away the best years of your life in academia for pittance
I'd say unless you have some serious talent going for a PhD is a really bad idea.

>>12195730
As mentioned earlier in this thread a student ended taking her professor to court. I just found out that this case is now in the Supreme court.

>>12196055
Yes, because every instance of a professor being a dick to you should end up in supreme court.

This kind of shit is litterally one of a kind. We're talking daily pet peeves here, not cases of intellectual theft or sexual harassment. More often than not, people shut up, or even worse, attempt to file formal complaints for shit that could be solved with a simple talk.

>>12196385
How do you know it was not attempted at first a simple talk? If the professor is channelling his inner warlord and he correctly assumes the university will support him no matter what, it will go to court.

>>12196699
That's a false equivalence you retard. Not all advisors/PI want to fuck you over at this level. Standing up to them doesn't necessarily mean you WILL have to sue them. Did you read my post ? 99% of the time, if not more, the situation you have does not require legal rescourse.

>>12196907
I read your post. I just cannot find any documentation or basis for your claim. I have documentation on conflicts going to court (there are more than this one case) as well as severe academic breeding.

>>12195659
There was a chinese guy in my lab whose parents paid for his PhD.

He actually was pretty motivated and did decent work, but I know some people definitely thought less of him for it.

>>12197808
Why do you people do the reddit spacing?

>started PhD in theoretical chem last week
>£17k/year
>Office is closed - sitting alone in small room
>No friends in the city
>3 more years of this ride

>>12198239
Lol well done

>>12197092
Oh i'm sorry, i thought i didn't need documentation, since i assumed we were talking about basic human interactions.

I didn't know i was talking to a fucking retard. You can resume being an autistic fuck whining on why everyone in your life is trying to fuck you over as you never state any boundaries.

>>12174357
>all these wizard-tier physics shit being researched amounts to barely anything
>mfw third world ecology M.S.

jesus christ it's like seeing people upset at getting a C while you're balls deep in F territory, what hope is there for me

>>12198817
The moment I show just a single case that blows your argument out of the water, is the moment you have to come up with some seriously impressive documentation for your point.
It would seem you are quite unfamiliar with scientific principles and methodologies.

>>12197989
Rent free

>>12174357
On the plus side, you're autistic, so you'll get used to it.
And it beats begging.

My best decision in life was to finish my masters in physics and get the fuck out of there. Academia is fucked. You'll have massive problems finding a job with a physics degree. Going into physics in academia is for people who want to become professors. If you just want a good degree so you can have a good job later it's thw worst decision ever and I regret every single bit of my 5 years in university.
I can't find a job and am unemployed for 3 months now despite having a really good GPA in experimental semiconductor physics. You are worth nothing for companies, all they want are EE's. Bail out of there and learn how to code. This is your last choice.

>>12195735
is this for the US? my country has no industry, there is no R&D. kill me
>>12198239
city/country?
>>12199248
>all they want are EE's
what is this?

>>12199295
electrical engineers

>>12199164
No, it's just that you just really do not understand my point. You are singling out one case of shit hitting the fan. And even if there were more, how many such cases were avoidable ? And lets say for the sake of argument that they were really the only way to deal with certains issues with their PI, what proportion of said situations arise per PhD ?

>>12195730
This post was referring to the fact that PhD students have an issue standing up to their advisors for basic shit. That could be explained through many reasons. Before doing my PhD, i did two years at Thales (think Raytheon but french). I had experience dealing with upper management, as well as managing a few kids (internships, one apprentice). I came into a phd with experience on how to talk to bosses and with a very basic understanding of how it feels to manage students.

Phds are mostly done right after your masters. The only "superiors" you ever dealt with were professors, and in most curriculi (except phds, we'll get to that) professors are gods that can fuck your career on a whim. When you're used to thinking that way with them, you'd think phds are the same.

But they're not. Professors wage a bet when they hire you for a PhD. The bet that you'll bring them publications. The bet that you'll do what you're told, that you won't try to publish shit behind their backs, the bet that you won't just stop publishing altogether. You're not just some kid in undergrad anymore, in many aspects and intents, you are a collaborator. When a PhD students becomes undesirable he is a bitch to fire. When lawsuits happen the professor's reputation within the university and abroad is seriously affected. Sometimes it's unavoidable, sure, but it is not a desirable outcome at all. You can weigh in on all this.

You may not be equals, sure, but you have a say in things. many phd students forget that.

If you need scientific proof for what i'm saying, kindly refer to >>12196907 and go fuck yourself.

>>12199248
>experimental semiconductor physics

Here's your issue bro. This shit is explicitely made for phds because that is a clearly r&d domain. Private won't hire non phds for r&d (very rarely), and academia well you obviously need a phd.

Don't shit on phds because you made terrible curricular choices.

>>12195735
Good luck getting hired for r&d or doing any kind of research with only a masters. You'd be considered a farce.

You've spent 23 years of your life not getting paid. You'd think you could wait three more getting paid a small amount.

>>12199366
>semiconducor is explicitly made for phds
What the fuck, how does that make sense? Technology is based on semiconductor, how the fuck does nobody need people who are well versed in the field of it and know how to process things etc.?
But well, my own fault, should have just stopped after my bachelor's. ALready seemed pointless back then.

>>12199373
Semiconductors are mass produced and vastly standardized. And in any mass producing environment, very few design engineers are needed, and those are usually engineers that took or one or two courses on semiconductors, due to their polyvalence. And if they need an actual expert on the domain, why take a masters when you can take a PhD ?


But it really isn't your fault. Universities do not teach people how to choose courses or studies wisely, based on market demand and whatnot.

>>12199295
No r&d ? In the western world ?

Why did you do a PhD in Serbia ?

>>12199384
Yeah already thought so. Guess I got memed into that field.
I really don't know what to do with my degree now. I feel pretty lost right now.

>>12199387
May I suggest doing a PhD ? With your good academic records and some solid recommendations you could get a good one. :)

>>12199392
Not an option for me. I really don't wanna stay in academia. This shit bores me to death and I'm happy i'm finally out of university.

>>12199370
>3 years PhD

>>12199437
Yeah i meant 4

>>12199410
Its not really academia. You may be required to attend a few courses, like 4 or 5 but thats over 8 or 9 semesters.

For the most time, you'll be putting real actual work.

>>12176265
>It's so funny when people still can't accept there's more to physics than the velocity of a ball rolling

now tell me where his statement is wrong
>pretty much most useful technology doesn't care about the developments in theoretical physics since 1960s. most nanotech can be derived with basic QM and numerical methods, don't even need relativistic corrections for anything.

>>12199459
Even that is really optimistic and completely dependent on your field and department. My department only does sandwich theses where you need at least three published conference papers with four being the standard. If you can't get your papers out the door you can potentially be stuck for many many years. A four year PhD happens only if everything goes perfectly fine and you and your supervisor and the university do everything right and perfect, which is quite frankly a ridiculous idea.

>>12199437
It takes 3 years in the UK. Imagine wasting 6-7 years doing a PhD, fucking lmao

>>12199480
6 -7 years is what happens when the professor sees you as cheap slave labour.

>>12199477
It does depend on the field, but also the country. Some actually do 3, some do 4. In asia you'll be doing 5 and up to 7 years.
Not all unis in the world have publishing requirements. In france it's three years and no requirements but you could extend it.

Also, again, it does depend on the field but you can do some good shit depending on who's your supervisor. All the more reason to check his background.

>>12199362
>If you need scientific proof for what i'm saying,
A circular argument? Nice. Just repeatedly claiming something does not make it true. Had you really had any background in science and research you would never have tried that little stunt.

>>12199529
You sure showed me, anon. Next time i will give share any personal experience or anecdote, i will make sure to supply plenty of studies to make them rigorously true and prove that i am a real scientist.

What a retard.

>>12199541
You have a long way to go.

>>12199542

>>12175750
Based engineer

>>12199248
>My best decision in life was to finish my masters in physics and get the fuck out of there.
My experience is that to get the interesting jobs you need a PhD in Physics.
>Academia is fucked.
Sadly true.
>You'll have massive problems finding a job with a physics degree.
Strange. We have been recruiting and of 4 physicists, 3 have a PhD and one a Master's degree, and also our competitors are looking for physicists.
>Going into physics in academia is for people who want to become professors.
No. A physicist can also escape to industry where the skills are valuable. Admittedly not everyone will understand this even if the figures are there. I had a job that involved a lot of analysis and had 5x more results than my non-PhD colleagues.
>If you just want a good degree so you can have a good job later it's thw worst decision ever and I regret every single bit of my 5 years in university.
I am sorry to hear that. Where are you located?
>I can't find a job and am unemployed for 3 months now despite having a really good GPA in experimental semiconductor physics. You are worth nothing for companies, all they want are EE's. Bail out of there and learn how to code. This is your last choice.
I too struggled at first to get a job and had the sinking feeling I had done the greatest mistake in my life. Thankfully things improved a lot.
Solid state physics should be good, I did that, though not semiconductors.

So hang on in there, stay comfy.

>>12199477
UK has a three-year standard duration for PhDs (in practice, this often extends to three and a half years, with four years being the absolute maximum after which your studentship ends). At least in my department, three first-author papers is "standard", although there is no official requirement.

Given this, I don't see how three papers in four years is a ridiculous idea requiring perfection.

>tfw started uni a year late and took three years to do my masters instead of 2 so I'm 26 instead of 24 as I should be at this point in my life

>>12174357
you decided to forsake the real world where you would develop competence and instead chose academia which would buy you a few more years of not being an adult
you get what you get

>>12201586
What's "this point" in your life? Just finished your master's? That's pretty much the average age where I'm from since people finish high school at 19, men have national service for a year, Bachelors + Masters takes 5 years. Add in competitive entrance exams for many popular fields that add a year or two for many and most people not finishing on time and most graduates are in the later half of their twenties.

>>12201649
He's comparing himself with his peers, not with random third worlders.

>>12177837
>just turn your brain off
You are a slave

>>12201706
It's a Northern European country, but whatever floats your boat, anglo mutt.

>>12201649
>>12201649
Thanks fren, that actually made me feel better.

>>12201591
>buy you a few more years of not being an adult
This makes me question what knowledge you really have about doing a PhD.

>>12182862
There is a phd at ucl gatsby theoretical neuroscience and artificial intelligence, 23k a year

but you need a double first from oxford in theoretical physics and statistical mathematics.

t. rejected and looked up the guy who got it.


the uk phd salary is low but 15k in the uk is like 250k anywhere else in the world because of the standard of living and education, free healthcare etc

>>12203260
>the uk phd salary is low but 15k in the uk is like 250k anywhere else in the world because of the standard of living and education, free healthcare etc

Please stop lying, even with NHS, 15k/y is shit.

im not doing physics but it is a similar degree called optics, just a masters for now, but this thread is making me think to just get a job with the MS and dont try for a phd. my university has pretty good industry connections and even most of the phds go into industry or govt labs so maybe it isnt such a bad idea?

>be German M.Sc. Mech Engineer
>Start a Phd with full salary that starts at ~44k/y
>after 4 years its ~57k/y
sucks to be you, OP

>>12203260
The UK has a very high cost of living, don't be a retard. Is 15k enough to live? Yeah. Is it a good salary? Fuck no.

>>12203315
Check the job market now. If yo cannot get a job now, doing a PhD will improve your position. Corona will be with us, probably another 3 years.

>>2199818
>Where are you located?
Germany.
Thanks though friend, made me feel a little bit better.

>>12174357
You only make 15k a year as a Physics PhD? Hows that possible?

>>12177837
>Stop thinking
The absolute state of the modern "academic".

>>12201839
>Northern European country
هل تلعثم عندما قال العالم الثالث؟

>>12203676
Sorry I don't speak London

>>12176265
Cope.

>>12203320
Are you unironically bragging about making 57k /year after a PhD? Congratz you earn as much as goodish/somewhat above average car dealership vendor

>>12203722
He's German,most of his salary goes towards supporting Achmed.

>>12203722
57k euros in France or Germany is easily worth 100 to 120k USD in terms of buying power.

kek pretty much EVERY STEM PhD knows this symbol. Go make your millions sciencebro

>>12203783
ouf

>>12203722
during Phd; salary increases nearly every year.

>>12203726
does not make any sense, you forgot you are not on pol

>>12203779
yeah, since Im working in east Germany it is a nice salary considering Im getting Phd

>>12203320
>Start a Phd with full salary that starts at ~44k/y
How does one obtain such a PhD position in Germany?

>>12195735
>Can get hired for R&D
>with a masters
No one takes them seriously.

>>12205149
they can be data """scientists"""

>>12203779
Is this true? Yeah I know the american wages are oversized but they have to pay a bunch of bullshit too (not only healthcare but also in rent). In real terms is there a ~1:2 relationship between buying power in America to Europe? Like is a 80k in Germany like 160k in America?

>>12178118
Based

>>12203685
based

>>12205516
Honestly, it depends on a lot of factors. Basically, software engineers are usually the most paid on average in france (due to france culturally placing engineers above universities through the Grande Ecole system) and they get an average of say, 38k a year after graduation. mid career, probably 50k more or less 10k. (i'm talking euros, so basically 60k USD more or less 11k USD). You can hope for more if you get a PhD, if you're in luck.


Now is it really 2:1 pound for pound ? I doubt it, and that's why America is so attractive for young european engineers. But if you earned 58k in Germany, you sure as hell won't be living like a car dealer in the US.

>>12205686
Damn I thought the europoor thing was just a meme. They really are poor.

>>12174357
go design missiles for the jews in israel

>>12174357
dude id love to be your pal
cheeseareeno@protonmail.com
write me OP
i am from london too

>>12190763
>Chinese just have it better in China.
Must be nice not to be actively discriminated against in the land your forefathers built.

>>12196907
This. Just approach them holding a screwdriver after hours in the carpark as they're leaving and talk through your problems

>>12189832
it's 52k in Switzerland but it's still a fine amount for one person. You end up with cca 3600 CHF (net salary) per month which you can live ok with.

>>12205707
$50k in Berlin = same quality of life with $100k in New York. sure thing burger. And i doubt you even earn close to that amount so yea Europeans live better by far on average than burgers.

>>12205782
Perks of living in an ethno-state :^)

At least they can have a career in the West, unlike us white monkeys.

>>12205816
100k in New york is nothing. 50k in Berlin will get you a far better life.

>>12205804
watch out, the professor might take you to the supreme court

>>12193393
>That has nothing to do with scientific recognition. It's about the intrinsic reward system built within us. We do shit because shit makes us happy.

Completely agree. Anyone who's in science for any other reason besides personal enjoyment will end up miserable without ever having achieved anything

>>12174357
Quit.

>>12176265

yeah bro, how about you spend the next ten years making a mathematical proof of a singularity in the Segue 1 Galaxy, so that it can be proven wrong by some random Hubble picture a few months latter. Truly humanity could not survive with this noble discipline.

>>12206248
I agree with this opinion. Imagine spending all your life writing proofs for dark matter and then having a a laser not detect any dark matter. Experimentalists are the only ones needed in physics

>>12206346
I am fine with theoretical physics as long as we can drop supersymmetry and these people who have rejected the scientific process for decades. How did they get away with it!?

>>12204175
At the moment its quiet easy; the number of students are dropping on many universities, to get Phd student many professors are willing to pay full salary. It depends though on the object. I heard different stories from Physic/Math/Chemistry. They get usually half salary.

>>12207493
>At the moment its quiet easy; the number of students are dropping on many universities, to get Phd student many professors are willing to pay full salary
Allah be praised :DDDD
I'm going to start aggressively searching German universities for positions now. What would you say is the best way to do this? Do they advertise available positions somewhere?

>>12207574
In eastern Germany the chances maybe higher (Saxony maybe the best). Look for smaller universities, since they have the biggest problem with decreasing students .. watch for institutes that research your topic of interest and maybe write e-mail to the prof that you are interested in the topic of research and whether they have an available position; but do a very good research and write it in a good way, since we are often spammed by chinese or indian students who mass spam us with this shit ..

>Do they advertise available positions somewhere?
thats rarely the case; usually if you see it advertised on the homepage, it is most likely taken; they have to do this procedure for "fairness reasons" ..

>>12174365
plenty of physic grads have a rich history of going into other fields where they make more money.

We are getting close to 310 posts. This was a good thread, anyone else up for a Physics and/or PhD career general?

>>12207909
Post it pleb

>>12207617
>whether they have an available position
So I won't know exactly what the PhD project is about, just the general topic. I express interest and if there's a position available the professor will explain what it's about? Is that correct?

>>12207909
Do it, I learnt a lot just from this one thread.

>>12206346
>I agree with this opinion. Imagine spending all your life writing proofs for dark matter and then having a a laser not detect any dark matter.

this requires the legendary quote
"I can’t believe what this once-venerable profession has become. Theoretical physicists used to explain what was observed. Now they try to explain why they can’t explain what was not observed."

>>12207967
>>12208226
Tempting. Do we have a Wiki we could use to aggregate the information? Cybsec is down still.

>>12206936
>I am fine with theoretical physics as long as we can drop supersymmetry and these people who have rejected the scientific process for decades. How did they get away with it!?
Those people likely just dont like the constraints the scientific process puts on them and would rather work like a mathematician or a philosopher. If thats the case, they have gotten into the wrong field.

>>12206936
>>12208570
This theoretical physicist explains what is wrong with modern theoreticians quite well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srzqvmUVOTA

>>12208910
I don't think it's necessarily bad or uninteresting to research something that can't be experimentally verified yet. What gets me more is the elitism of theorists, some of whom seem to think that working as far from experiments as possible is the "real physics".

>>12209241
I work in theoretical physics and I rarely see this attitude, tbqh. I do theoretical physics because it's math, not because it's physics.

>>12209247
It may be just me having a chip on my shoulder and spending too much time on /sci/. People in real life are, of course, usually more reserved in the opinions they put out there.

>>12208910
He seemed really grounded and well reasoned.

>>12209241
>I don't think it's necessarily bad or uninteresting to research something that can't be experimentally verified yet.
True. Where the problem comes is when decades of research is leading nowhere while experimental results are always explained after the fact. which is always possible since their framework has so many knobs and dials it can adapt to anything. That means there is no predictive power. At this point the alarms should go off, loudly.
>What gets me more is the elitism of theorists, some of whom seem to think that working as far from experiments as possible is the "real physics".
Being an experimental physicist and no longer active, I never met those.

>>12209269
>People in real life are, of course, usually more reserved in the opinions they put out there.
There are people willing to let their views be known: https://youtu.be/SXxHfb66ZgM
I attended a lecture he gave once, he tends to be crystal clear and brutally so.