/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12162394
Why fuck SLS?

>>12162394
This nigga in a swimming pool

>>12162394
Nice design.
If only the mars ones could be this aesthetic.

>>12162413
kek

first for licking the inside of female astronauts' space diapers

>>12162409
the Space Launch System being developed by NASA for the Artimus Program - expensive and shit

>>12162388
>>12162388
>>12162388
>>12162388

>>12162952
I know what it is. Why is it shit?

>>12162394
is 8 bar differential lower than they expected?

>>12162952
SLS isn't a "moon rocket", it's a "keep Congress from de-funding NASA" policy

>>12163787
The SLS program is years late (which is particularly damning since much of it is using already existing components from the Space Shuttle - they have working engines & solid fuel booster designs to use) and very expensive. The price NASA agreed to pay Rocketdyne PER SINGLE RS-25 engine is only a bit less than what SpaceX would charge for a full expendable Falcon Heavy.

>>12163787
SLS only slightly outperforms an expendable Falcon Heavy for it's stated mission goal (Launching an orion stack and modules for Gateway to lunar orbit)
Which is funny because Falcon heavy has just enough overhead to do all of that, for the price of one rs-25, SLS is overpowered for launching a crew capsule to the moon lmao, it doesn't even have a fucking lander with it

nuclear teakettle water ssto when

>>12165777
>>12165698

The tragedy of it (and the reason I do blame Nixon to some degree) is that they DIDN'T have everyone convinced. The OMB in particular saw that if you used a high discount rate to factor in the high-risk nature of the project that the costs far outweighed the benefits. They sent a memo to Nixon saying it was a bad idea to put all our eggs in one basket by having the shuttle replace all expendable rockets. If they had had their way then the biggest spacecraft NASA would have been allowed to build would have been a small glider launched on a Titan III-L.

In retrospect, they were amazingly prescient. Even at the time, their arguments were watertight. Nixon should have known better, but instead he thought he had done his due diligence and saved enough money by getting NASA to give up on the flyback booster. And he was worried that he was going to lose California if he didn't give North American some big new project to work on.

But if /sfg/ had been around in 1970 we all would have absolutely been shuttle huggers, starry-eyed with visions of 60 launches per year.

>>12165820
Are you implying Starship will be anything less than perfectly safe, on schedule, and transformative

What role is each space agency/company going to play in the near future?
It's looking like it'll be something like this:

NASA: Probes and research, systemwide human transport
SpaceX: Heavy Earth/Mars transport and support, human-capable
Rocketlab: Light systemwide transport
Everyone else: Light - medium Earth transport, some human-capable

The problem is that "everyone else"; their scope and efficiency of operations is pathetic, they will only do what SpaceX can already do, just at a much higher cost and lower punctuality and reliability. Is anyone else even doing anything useful?

>>12165543
Imagine, 240 tons into LEO for the same cost as four RS-25s. More than half the total mass of the ISS. If you used habitat modules comparable to the B330 with four launches you'd already have more habitable volume than the ISS.

>>12162394
thinking bout that bean

What should someone interested in space buy? Anything cool?

>>12165833
an education

>>12165833
An LR101 or a 3d printed working engine

>>12165827
Assuming that Blue Origin actually does anything, I could see them muscling their share of a defense contract launch + rich people space tourism role. I can completely imagine them eventually being used mostly to launch and service private orbital resorts and corporate labs.
>>12165833
I'd say books on rocketry and the history of rocketry.

>>12165833
Gamestop stock

>>12165833
The Owner's Workshop Manual for the Saturn V is really fucking cool if you like in-depth stuff.

>>12165822

It is pretty sobering to read how most of the top minds behind Apollo could delude themselves into thinking that they could predict the exact performance, reusability, and reliability of a spacecraft that was totally unlike anything ever built before. And I guess reading up on that sorta stuff does make me relatively pessimistic on Starship. I think it can eventually become what Elon wants, but it's probably going to take decades to get there.

But at least Elon isn't having to cancel Falcon production to fund it.

>>12165833
Kerbal

>>12165864
Well, here's the bull case: Starship is built on a technology base 50 years newer than Shuttle, using better understood materials, with modern computer simulations backing it up, by a company with expertise in both propulsive landing and booster reuse. And the SpaceX team is no doubt fully aware of every pitfall that Shuttle development struck.

>>12165864
The good thing is that Starship is NOT a complete unknown. The real challenge will definitely be the reentry vehicle, but the booster is a well known quantity at this point, SpaceX are by far the most experienced entity on the entire planet in both the theory and practical realities of landing rockets. And importantly, unlike the Shuttle, defense contractors and chair fliers in Airforce will not be dictating it's required mission profile, or intruding on the project with special requirements to guarantee funding.

>>12165872
The most important distinction for me is that the development processes of the Shuttle and Starship are night and day. The biggest vested interest SpaceX has to worry about is some Japanese dude who just wants to fly around the moon. Meanwhile, the Shuttle had to go through the behemoth bureaucracy of NASA and every contractor involved.
It's still a death trap though.

>>12165820
>But if /sfg/ had been around in 1970 we all would have absolutely been shuttle huggers, starry-eyed with visions of 60 launches per year.
oh god i can imagine the hype threads for enterprise's captive flights. imagine being around back then honestly believing every nasa press release because you had nothing else to compare to

>>12165543
>>12165830
Remember, Falcon 9 actually costs 28 million to launch reused.

>>12165827
>NASA: Probes and research, systemwide human transport
The whole point of SpaceX is system wide human transport anon.

>>12165872
>>12165881

At this point Starship certainly seems like a much lower-risk development than the Shuttle ever was. Raptors seem to be pretty far along, although we have no idea how reusable they really are. But even if they only can fly ten missions that's still going to be a dramatic improvement even over the Merlin in terms of reducing launch costs. The TUFROC tiles have already been proven on the x-37 and the upper stage doesn't even need to land for the system to be cost-effective.

So even my pessimism is pretty optimistic I guess. Even if the early Starships needs a year to refurbish between launches it's still going to be the biggest leap forward in spaceflight since you-know-what.

>>12165827
>virgin galactic: nothing

NASA could actually be a pretty powerful space agency again if they commissioned some existing and new engine designs from SpaceX. Engines are clearly SpaceX's forte and NASA's weakness.
The problem is that SpaceX doesn't have a hydrogen engine design, and NASA likes to fling stuff out really far which is hard without hydrogen.

It'd be great if NASA paid SpaceX to not only develop hydrogen engines, but also to put a refuelling station into orbit which stores water and produces fuel and oxidiser as necessary. With that combination, the price of the SLS would plummet and its capabilities would increase, it'd actually be acceptable for its price.
I think SpaceX should lean heavily into a support role, because the fact is it can't do everything that needs to be done; but it sure as hell can make it a lot easier for everyone to do it.

Actually, what if SpaceX designed support vehicles? Things that can fit around anything big and cylindrical (i.e. a rocket), help it out, then are returned to LEO. Need some extra delta-V? Hire a vacuum booster, which will put you on your desired trajectory then detach. Want to return your second stage? Plenty of ways to make a vehicle that does that too.
SpaceX could make a lot of money that way, while also massively benefiting the space industry. Instead of only making money off their own launches, they'd be making money off of other people's launches too.

>>12165927
MODS

>>12165903
I thought that was marginal cost on a new one

>>12165896
>Just be patient anons, I know it sucks having to wait all the way until 1978 to get back to orbit but the space station we're gonna build is gonna be way better and way cheaper than anything we could have done before

>>12165927
>wanting space X engineers to be bogged down developing more things for nasa
To a certain point the money is necessary, but beyond that it's just wasting talent that could go towards a space program that isn't controlled by politics

>>12165927
>>12165933

>>12165927
They should just offer Raptors at a flat rate as crate engines, like car manufacturers do

>>12162394
Wut this is my old thread. I thought I deleted it lmao. I made it right after another anon made his
LINK TO ACTUAL PREVIOUS THREAD >>12162388

>>12165927
IMAGINE if SpaceX built a staged combustion hydrolox engine and then sued to start a new bid for the SLS engines, all they'd have to do is publicly name some price an order of magnitude or two below the RS-25 price

>>12165948
By the way the thread theme is in reference to the SHIT orion helmet

>>12165927
It'd be cheaper to just use falcon heavies than develop something new. NASA could put 1 kiloton of ice in orbit for less than 5% of its budget if they used reusable FHs.

>>12165957
Correction: I did the math and it would be 7% of nasa's 2021 budget.

>>12165971
NASA should dedicate 5% of it's yearly budget in a continuous program to yeet bulk ice. Build an massive American ice moon in orbit. Why bother with the tankage of a depot? Just mine it lmao

>>12165935
Nope, i think marginal cost for new boosters is 15 million though

>>12165948
Only mods have been able delete threads for many years now.

>>12165982
Just say it's free for use to anybody who can reach it too. Then you'd see some REAL newspace shit start up real fast.

>>12162409
>>12162952
>>12165539
The shuttle really fucked us long term, the plans for the Saturn MLV would have given us more capability cheaper while maintaining the capacity to produce the largest rocket is history.

>>12166005
>260-inch solids

matrioshka brain to finally run ksp smoothly when?

single-molecule starship hulls when

SpaceX should stay in LEO, BEO isn't their job, it's government's business or big company like Boeing or LM.

>>12166025
I'm not a fan of solids for manned flight but it would be great to big-boy payloads like a lunar station or base.

>>12166038
>Expendable Superheavy throwing a massive 500 ton station into LEO using xboxhuge solids

>>12166037
Give this kid a grant, he's a genius.

>tfw you will never get to ride the forbidden firecracker to orbit

>>12166058
What was expected peak g-load on this beast? I can't help but think the second stage solid wouldn't have been fun.

>>12166066
second stage would have been hydrolox with a j-2x, but solids can be designed for arbitrarily low thrust if so desired, like for deorbit thrusters.

>>12165834
>have american citizenship but am studying in leaf-land
am i gonna make it bros?

>>12166088
>a fucking arm

>>12166005
i know i'm probably the last guy to realize this but if you stuck an s-ivb on top of one of those f-1 strapons guess what fictional rocket you get?

>>12166103
SLS block 2

>>12166103
There were plenty of designs for cheaper / lighter rockets based on Saturn hardware, the Shuttle really did fuck up everything.

The project name "DIRECT" referred to a philosophy of maximizing the re-use of hardware and facilities already in place for the Space Shuttle program (STS), hence a "direct" transition. The DIRECT Team asserted that using this approach to develop and operate a family of high-commonality rockets would reduce costs and the gap between retirement of the Space Shuttle and the first launch of Orion, shorten schedules, and simplify technical requirements for future US human space efforts.[citation needed]

>>12166131
>Citation needed.
NASA's ass.

>>12166131
>It will be cheaper trust us dude, look at all these fuckign RS-25s laying around.
>Oh yeah they'll be super cheap to refurbish.
>Why spend all that money on a first stage booster that can actually lift the rocket, we'll just use the SRBs!

>>12166076
Wait the Mercury retro thrusters were solid motors?

>>12166088
Pretty sure you're still good to go as far as ITAR is concerned. Not sure what industry connections in Canada are like, but I'd have to assume most Canadian aerospace engineers end up working in the US.

>>12166131
DIRECT would've been great if they pursued the architecture in its original form.

>>12166139
Mercury and Gemini both. At the time it was thought that solids would give you the most reliable ignition in space and they weren't gonna take any chances. I think that's the reason the earliest US orbital rockets all had solid final stages too

>>12165940
SpaceX is gonna need a hydrogen engine eventually, otherwise they're very limited in what they can do beyond Earth and Mars.
A Mars colony would develop very slowly and bleed money besides tourism, and it wouldn't be as popular for tourism as the moon; you'd be travelling for months each way to visit what is essentially a low gravity desert, with all the discomfort and inconvenience involved in EVA in a cold vacuum whenever you're outside.

How realistic would it be for SpaceX to, in the next few years, send off a laser ablation plasma thruster to an asteroid to bring that asteroid to Earth orbit?

>>12166219
unless they've been secretly working on laser ablation plasma thrusters for a while then not at all

Hey /SFG/. I’m thinking of writing a short story collection set in an alternate timeline where the loss of Challenger leads NASA to develop an in line cargo launcher for the DoD like pic related. Eventually in the mid 90s NASA is given the green light to upload it from “Fat Titan IV” into a heavy lifter like SLS was supposed to be, except with STME engines instead of RS-25’s so it’s cheaper, and plus all the hard parts of redesigning the tank are already done. Anyways NASA returns to the moon in 2009 and it’s cool.

I want to end it in an alternate 2012, with the maiden launch of the “Falcon 7” from the company “Space Exploration Technologies”, and then end it there.

Also if anyone is curious pic related is one design for the “Jarvis” rocket. This version took a space shuttle core and placed a payload on top. It used a single Space Shuttle engine, but it was decided that throwing away 1 SSME was cheaper than reusing 3 (lol). This vehicle was apparently cheaper to fly than the Titan IV because, but lost the DoD competition.

You don't want to mess with Starship!

>>12166319
Rockets are technically munitions, so they require military-scale security measures.

>>12166217
wrong, Raptors will never die until the end of civilization

>>12166319
welcome to Texas

Oh shit, I didn't realize that Snate got moved to the pad. This one was going to get a nosecone for the 20km flight, right? Bit strange that it looks like they're installing it out at the pad and not in the high bay.

>>12165140
it's acceptable
they want a little bit better but it'll work

>>12166217
>SpaceX is gonna need a hydrogen engine eventually, otherwise they're very limited in what they can do beyond Earth and Mars.
Methane exists everywhere in the solar system, there is enough methane on Titan for human uses in billion years alone.

>>12166317
Post-Challenger is the one big what-if in nasa history that hasn't gotten much of an alternate history treatment that I know of. Would the shuttle keep flying or would Jarvis boosting one of the Personnel Launch System concepts?

Pic related, Boeing's PLS proposal which Roscosmos later ripped off with Kliper

>>12166378
Installing a nosecone on the pad is probably easier than installing engines on the pad

I almost wonder if the long-term plan might be to replace the nosecone after every flight so you can pack the payload in before stacking. It could reduce turnaround time.

>>12166378
judging by the process for SN5 and SN6, it's going to be like this:
1. cryo test on the pad
2. static fire on the pad (multiple engines?)
3. 150 m hop and translation
4. haul it back to the build site for refurbishment
5. ????
6. spaaaace

>>12166378
>>12166395
what sort of joint are they using to hold the nosecone on

>>12166403

>>12166389
The late 80s/Early 90s had a bunch of really cool shuttle derived ideas that actually were being pushed by the Air Force to launch big 40 ton satellites into LEO. They were also cost competitive with Titan and other launchers just because they actually reused shuttle components without cost plus retardation.

But I do wish we had more Sci fi about alternate history shuttle era. Pic related is another version of the Jarvis rocket from 1985 I think. This one had two F-1’s boosting a Kerolox shuttle external tank, and a second stage with a fattened up SIVb

>>12166403
adhesive tape (which also serves as RCS through outgassing thrust)

>>12166479
Anything using the term 'Jarvis' is going to be 1986 or later since it was named after Greg Jarvis who died on Challenger. But the concepts had been floating around for a while before.

As much affinity as I have for the F-1 and J-2 I'm not sure it would have worked because it would have been in that same jam as the Titan IV where you're making a new rocket with very limited demand. On the other hand it would have been much more capable than Titan IV was.

i'm trying to find a photo of zubrin that's especially goofy (more than normal goofy)

Can any anons assist?

>>12166539
The goofiest possible picture of Zubrin would be one where he looks normal.

>>12166539

>>12166539
JUST

>>12166539

SN8 is going for a stroll

>>12166539
babby

>>12166319
i thought you meant that UNIT towing the stack

>>12166539
bruh

>>12166560
>>12166563
>bob will die in your lifetime

I love the crotchety old bastard and I really hope he lives to see us go to mars

>>12166563
He should’ve stuck with the hat.

>>12166588
>flings (flappy wings /aerosurface)
the state

>>12166598
look, it's not my fault that everybody in tourist trap/cartel territory south Texas is fucking retarded

>>12166539

thanks Nomadd for the kayak images

>>12166590
my fav zubby pic

>>12166609
>Elon say mini staship is gay
>mfw

going kayaking out behind the SpaceX launch site looks really fun and cool, I've got to do that some time

the spiky bits are the mount for the Tesla battery Starship will use to power the flaps during descent

>>12166605
>>12166610
>>12166613
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub
>pressure test
>engines mounted
>scrub
>scrub
>Static fire
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub
>150m hop
>legs fucked
>sn8 taken to mid bay for refurb
>new engines installed, new legs
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub
>new static fire
>150m hop on new engines
>survives
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub
>15km hop, failure, engines fail during launch around 5km

>ywn have a rave underneath starhopper
this sucks

>>12166623
God I hope this happens!

>>12166603

dank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FQhtMrUQlE

how far we've come

>>12166623
>>15km hop, failure, engines fail during launch around 5km
Wait, really? Did I miss the 5km hop?

>>12166635
yeah that was last month

>>12166621
make sure to do it when they're about to do a flight test

>>12166578
>AUH20 = HOT AIR
probably the least crass goldwater pun that any 12-year-old boy ever came up with

>>12166635
no, he's shitposting

>>12166642
>scrubbed due to idiot tourist kayaker intruding into the keep out zone

>>12166632
>SPACEX DESIGNED THE FALCON 1 FROM THE GROUND UP FOR HIGH RELIABILITY

oh dear

>>12166653
lmao high reliability Falcon 1

>>12166623
>15km hop, failure, starhopper accidentally launches and collides with sn8 at 10km

NSF with another really good comparison

>>12166217
>SpaceX is gonna need a hydrogen engine eventually, otherwise they're very limited in what they can do beyond Earth and Mars.
No, you need NON CHEMICAL engines. LCH4's Isp vs. thrust relationship to LH2 is proportional for every propulsion system, so build beamed power stations in orbit around Mars and build laser-thermal RVac ships for exploring the outer planets.

>>12166659
>the cartels shoot it down with manpads provided by the CIA

Mars 2024

>>12166663
lmao no

>>12166669
planets aren't allowed to run for president anon and even if they were mars would be my fourth choice at best

>>12166672
I'd vote for Ceres

>>12166672
my first choice? planet benis

>>12166672
This. Uranus is the only planet experienced enough to trust. They’ve seen some shit.

>>12166623
you forgot scrubbed for boats

>>12166683
Ur-ah-nus
say it with me please

>>12166688
I prefer the more standard greek pronunciation of ooh-rahn-ohs

>>12166693
sure whatever let's talk it over at the next big conference

blue urine

can't wait for the NGRST to launch

>>12166697
>4ASS conference
imagine the smell (and autism)

>>12166693
I prefer the more consistent Caelus because the rest of the fucking planets are Roman

>>12166702
>the NIGGEREST is late again
damn CPT

>>12166709
maybe the planets should be Greek, anon
Hermes, Aphrodite, Gaea, Ares, Zeus, uhhhhhhhhhhhh Saturn doesn't have a direct equivalent but got conflated with Cronos, Uranus, Poseidon, Hades

planets should be inuit

Scientifically speaking, what is the spaceflight equivalent of this?

planets should be nigger gods
nguugugklunkgth
nigurihuok
kyun'kunthung
guhduschka

>>12166721
new shepard because both get scrubbed as much lmao

>>12166721
Any toilet on a spacecraft is, by definition, a portable toilet.

>>12166721
Scientifically speaking, what is the spaceflight equivalent of the blue water?

>>12166724
Space itself is already black.

>>12166730
Space is actually, on average, pale as fuck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_latte?wprov=sfti1

here we see the Russians searching the corpse of the Soviet space program for leftover bottles of vodka

here we see the Russians searching the corpse of the Soviet space program for leftover bottles of vodka

>>12166732
That's an average of starlight. Most of the universe is empty black.

>>12166744
also: holy shit they're actually encapsulating Nauka in a payload fairing
they're actually going to launch this thing
https://youtu.be/DAw1CXu-pqE

>>12166745
it's Black, not black

>>12166756
With what?

>>12166757
*BAME
bigot

>>12166760
a trampoline

>>12166760
SLS

>>12166760
your mom

>>12166744
>>12166756
Is that the lab module they’ve been 2 years away from launching since the early 2000s?
>inb4 the proton it’s riding on flies into the ground

>>12166769
yes

>>12166578
Was he a child savant or something or is this photo just a coincidence with him in front of a chalk board?

is any footage public of the N1 explosions? god i would die to watch those

>>12166781
soon https://fr.ulule.com/n-1_rocket_documentary/

>>12166789
hasn't it been Soontm for like a decade now

>>12166794
it's only been a year

>>12166801
>>12166794
nahhh project is at least 4 years old

>>12166809
sure, but the reel scanning only started happening in the last year

>>12166789
if you read the news section, pandemic seems to have significantly setback the project by years.

at least we got this teaser of NK-15
https://youtu.be/rCyxnBKVI9M

>>12166502
Kek

>>12166103
based, eyes turned skyward is so fucking cool

>>12166915

>>12166922

>>12166929

>>12166931

>>12166936

>>12166939

>>12166943

>>12166945

>>12166948

>>12166951

>>12166955

>>12166957

>>12166963

>>12165864
Let's see:
>superheavy (booster)
I don't realy see much new here, the concept is more or less a scaled up F9 booster with different fuel, materials and engines.
The engines have proven to work, so that's tested.
The materials seem to work as shown by destructive testing.
So at least for superheavy there isn't much unknown.
>Starship (upper stage "spaceplane")
I could see issues with the TPS and re-entry, but aside from that they are sticking to propulsive landings wich they have perfected years ago.

So the only big variable is the thermal protection system, but as the structure is made from stainless steel instead of aluminium or composites, it doesn't need to keep the vehicle as cool as the TPS of the shuttle was required to.
So this is a big unknown to me:
It could work great, but it could also suck.

>>12166623
SN8 isn't doing a 150 meter hop, and I doubt the engines would fail on launch considering they've done a shit ton of testing with raptor. This post just seems like boeing tier doomerism.

diesel mars rovers when?

how long until I can buy an electric shitbox with 120k miles on it for $700 bros
elon pls

From what I heard and read, bringing all the nitrogen alone to Mars for terraforming would be a gargantuan endeavour, dwarfing our biggest logistical successes combined. That with the Martian gravity unaltered.

That brought me to a very simple question:

What are we closer to, uploading our brains into computers and therefore cyborg bodies, or finding anything remotely resembling a garden world?

>>12167062
>our biggest logistical successes combined
Like that one time when I hauled that boat and a case of beer on my rallycar miata.

>>12166613
Imagine if they dropped it lmao

>>12165915
>TUFROC
>TOUGH ROCK

Delta IV Heavy scrub happening on Sept 29

>ULA pushes the D4H launch right for yet another day
They're now just screwing with SpaceX

>>12166915
>>12166922
>>12166929
>>12166931
>>12166936
>>12166939
>>12166943
>>12166943
>>12166945
>>12166948
>>12166951
>>12166955
>>12166957
>>12166963
>>12166966
they took this from you

>>12167180
shut the fuck up racist chud

>>12167181
>chud

Tfw I just found out that one month equals to one lunar cycle around earth. I feel so dumb right now.

>>12167181
>chud
this word is so fucking stupid
"cannibalistic-humanoid-underground-dweller" lmfao, best case is 1/1000 people called that even live underground and the other parts doesn't apply to anyone
if you're gonna insult someone u should at least have the insult actually be insulting desu

>>12166713
>Hades
isnt a planet anymore in this universe too

>>12166974
there is still the issue of not having an abort system (even the shuttle could at least glide down) and the question if ss will be as cheap as predicted. if not, launching multiple rockets for refueling might not be feasable which would basically kill the mars missions. we would still have a pretty good heavy lift cargo rocket though.

>>12167204
>All of this cope and deflection
CHUD CHUD CHUD CHUD CHUD CHUD CHUD

>>12166623
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub
>scrub

This isn't ULA

>>12166217
If you are talking about moving big payloads around the solar system the only thing hydrolox is good for is leaving LEO, boiloff makes it terrible for anything else.
Sure they are talking about hydrolox for lunar work but that is all based on lunar ISRU to produce hydrolox on the surface, the only people talking about launching hydrolox from Earth for refueling in lunar orbit are oldspace giants trying to remain relevant with their existing hydrolox engines.

>>12167078
more pixels

>>12166662
is orange wire bad? Should we warn elon?

>>12167315
Orange wire is industrial standard but not well suited to high vibration, red wire should really be used here.
t. industrial electrician

>>12167078
Just right it again, and use a bunch of these.

can starship lay on its side? Do you have to partially pressurize it with gas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jISagq2Uko
How bright would a starship launch be from this far away?

>>12166974
I like everything I've seen from the Raptors so far and I want to buy the FFSC-means-1000x-reuse meme but it's got a long way to go before I'd consider it proven. Merlin was a reliable engine from the start but it was also an easy and well-understood configuration which had been flying since the 50s. We haven't even seen a full-duration Raptor burn yet. Can they ramp up production without sacrificing quality? Can it be reliably restarted in flight? How much inspection and refurbishment will it need between missions? Can you fire 30 of them at once without N1ing it?

>>12167224
If you just had some sort of space-based infrastructure where you could... deposit... fuel then you could still do the Mars missions even with a low SS launch cadence.

>>12167241
no anon, what u gotta do is call someone u dont like a nigger, people are actually upset by that.
calling me a chud means nothing, as that word does not apply to me.

SN9 ready for a lot of thermal tiles

>>12167473
>Oh shiEET

>>12167500
omg no that's racist

>>12166915
Eyes Turned Skywards is awesome. Does anyone know how to read the whole thing?

>>12167512
no anon... that's GAMER!
>>12167519
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/eyes-turned-skywards.208954/reader/

Today in history:
>2003 – The SMART-1 satellite is launched.
>2007 – NASA launches the Dawn probe to the asteroid belt.
>2008 – CNSA astronaut Zhai Zhigang becomes the first Chinese person to perform a spacewalk.

I want to marry her bros

great job on the OP idiot

>>12167541
great job on the- oh wait u never did a good job on anything ever faglord

>>12167486
Its 28 engines now, not 30. Also, merlin is worse for reuse then raptor because it burns hotter and leaves soot deposits (because it is an RP-1 engine)

SLS and New Glenn vs Starship be like
>https://youtu.be/zevhWP-5twg

>>12167541
retard

>>12165833
a spaceship

>>12166613
>>12166610
>>12166605
ugh grey steel.... what an eyesore.......

>>12165915
>no LES

>>12167723
...and? Shuttle didn’t have one

>>12167726
That seems to have worked out well for it.

>>12167730
It’s 50/50. The shuttle only had 2 launches with problems on the way up. STS-51-L blew up, rest their souls- but STS-51-F did an abort to orbit, and was the only mission to do so. Fun fact; these were both the Challenger orbiter lmao

Alright /sfg/, we’ve been tasked with building a test vehicle for a plasma magnet sail vehicle
The requirements are that it has to be cheap enough that a company can produce it
>It must be small enough to be launched from a commercial rocket
>plasma magnet sail must be its main propulsion outside a magnetosphere
>The sail generator must be able to run in propulsion and breaking modes
>It must fly to one of the gas giants and communicate back to Earth
>Instrumentation for measuring data from outside is optional
Alright, how do we achieve this?

>>12167195
it's not exact but yeah, each lunar day is about a month

>>12167218
fuck you fuck you fuck you he doesn't deserve to be shafted like this
I can't believe Zeus got away with it

>>12167704
chromium, not steel
the surface layer of stainless is chromium (this is self replenishing)

>>12167749
What was the reason they didn't go with the little mini-shuttle escape system? I know I've seen that concept art posted here before.

>>12167776
money money money money

>>12167776
Pre-challenger they didn't go with it because the nasa propaganda was that the shuttle was going to have airline-like operations, with only a 1 in 10000 chance of failure. Airliners don't have escape pods, so therefore the shuttle couldn't have one either.

After Challenger, >>12167780 is correct.

fucking frogs

>>12167766
Dipole drive you idiot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93pX9_7vYb0

>>12167789
where have I heard this before

rip starship

>>12167810
the shuttle didn't work because oldspace was inflexible and cash-starved, on a permanent dripfeed

>>12167810
At least starship can do unmanned test flights. If they actually fly it hundreds of times before send up people like Elon says then that's probably as good as can be hoped for.

Certainly better than declaring it "operational" after it had flown a grand total of 4 times.

>>12167827
there's also:
no orange foam to destroy the heat shield
double the number of engines on the upper stage (they can lose more engines than shuttle and still make it to orbit)
no fireworks to burn holes in the tanks

>>12167844

There's a threat that Starship will have to contend to that the Shuttle didnt have to; ULA snipers.

>>12167858
and the cartels, I've heard they've got manpads from the CIA (thanks Obama)

oh nice timeline

>>12167875
I feel like we are in an even better timeline. A small little dragon propulsively landing on Mars wouldn't be the best bet for colonization. Starship (even the smaller 9m variant compared to the proposed BFR) opens up so many more options- and will only get bigger in size as they perfect it

>>12167875
based on the fact that booster dev has begun, we can safely say we're halfway done with the ship dev :DD

>>12167875
Roughly 1 year delay. Not so bad for a completely revolutionary rocket. Aim for star, and be happy you get to the moon.

>>12167886
>>12167881
mostly I'm just really amazed that it's perfectly in line with current day Starship development even though this is from the 2016 IAC conference

>>12167890
everything is shifted about a year or two, but I seriously think if they can get a starship into orbit by 2022, they will send cargo to mars. Even if they miss 2022, hitting 2024 is almost guaranteed

>>12166631
what is this? Just some access panel?

>>12167890
Okay so maybe y'all have more information than me, but my conjecture is that Starship will be ready to go orbital this time next year. Has elon mentioned anything on it?

And regardless of when it makes its first official orbit and Earth landing... how long will it take to iron out all the SMALL details and produce the first factory Starship? This is what I am most interested in. Basically first orbital test -> first official launch (presumably with a starlink payload) should not take more than a few months correct?

>>12167908
it's the manhole to access the tank
instead of putting an actual cover on it, there's a very fancy one with laser cut holes and the SpaceX logo
>>12167909
>this time next year
I would believe Q1 or Q2 2021 dates

>>12167062
Bro just slam asteroids into Mars, just melt the ice caps lmao, how are orbital mechanics even real dude xD.
On a more serious note, it's certainly doable, but the energy costs would be insane, and it'd still get mogged by Earth.

>>12167909
>>12167916
If they can pull off a successful 15/20km hop by the end of this year I'll buy an orbit before the end of 2021. There's still a bunch of unknowns with the landing maneuver and Raptor clustering that could take a long time to iron out.

>>12167931
yeah, booster thrust structure is going to be wack
looking forwards to the pipe spaghetti

>>12167881
Red dragon was meant to be significantly larger than Crew Dragon. It's still not as big as Starship, but it would've been awesome to see a fuckton of them landing with Starships.

>>12167931
Getting it to 20 km before the year is out is completely within the realm of possibility- and Elon will have his team on overdrive if he knows it's even slightly possible. Why does everyone mention to difficulties with Raptor clustering and stuff? I thought this was "easy" compared to N1 technology? I know a lot of anons mention difficulties with the "thrust puck". What exactly is complicated about this?

>>12166572
>>12166576
>>12166581
>>12166588
https://youtu.be/4eQMA_noRYQ

>>12167938
Oh I did not know this. What are the chances Orel will do something similar? Was orel designed with red dragon in mind or is it just coincidence (funny to think that Elon might have sent Russia down the wrong path before deeking them out and switching to SS and now they are too far in to cancel it lol). Is Orel intended to land on surfaces like the Moon like a lander?

>>12167949
I'm glad somebody else understands

>>12167949
gonna go play skate now

>>12166769
since 2007, but compications have driven it to 2021 (mainly the fact that the station itself was still not completely finished and some of the modules were still needed

>>12167945
more engines means more plumbing in the thrust structure to feed them propellant and that means more failure points. sn4 blew up because it busted a pipe with a 5-second single-engine static fire on the ground. they fixed that issue but soon they're gonna be dealing with way more plumbing while flying in the air, which may well mean pogo oscillations.

>>12166922
SON OF A BITCH I JUST REALIZED THAT THIS IS KSP

>>12167995
Well good luck to super heavy then... how tf are they gonna deal with ~30 engines??
(pic outdated but gets the point across)

>>12168003
Very carefully. They've already demonstrated hop capability with Raptor/SS and gridfins on the F9, so the thrust puck and plumbing are the only real challenges for SH.

>>12167311
it genuinely hurts to look at

>>12167527
Zhai Zhigang isn't an astronaut he's a taikonaut

>>12168011
Oh yeah I didn't think about that. They have a lot of knowledge from Falcon which they can carry over. I have a feeling they will figure it out relatively quickly (i.e. might be a few months, and might cause a few delays, but it will probably beat SLS to orbit either way hahah)
>>12168022
I can only imagine the tension in the office that day. Lots of people trying to convince themselves / their boss about how this wasn't their fault

>>12165820
>Nixon
He wanted a legacy.
And he got it.
Just not quite an attractive one.

>My laptop just died while I was watching NSF's Starship video today.

>>12168003
by blowing up a super heavy or two hopefully. i don't want starship delayed THAT much but if we could get the greatest RUD videos of all time by delaying it 3 months i'd kinda be on board for that

>>12168003
28 engines.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-moon-lander-nasa-review-blue-origin/

>>12167793
I bet it really chafed them to have to put an English translation on that poster.

>>12167999
>that mystery good container
it's pretty clear cut now that I look at it, yeah

>>12166403
FLEX TAPE
>>12166563
That was in his Paul Simon period
>>12166688
YOU-REKT-UM
>>12166728
Just dehydrate by exposing the poop to vacuum
>>12167195
Imagine if somehow the words MONth and MOON were related.

>>12167224
>even the shuttle could at least glide down
Dream on.

>>12166915
tks>apollo
vulkan-atlas > saturn v

Okay, the ayyys land in your backyard and challenge you and two buddies to a dance battle. The outcome of which will will have a major impact on any further interactions.
You have one shot.
What do?
And what song?

>>12168031
it's a made up term that doesn't mean anything

>>12168048
Texas tank watchers like you are scum of the earth

>>12168139
Not in my language and English always pulls weird shit where you can't assume anything.

>>12168155
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vkR1G_DUVc

>>12168166
from a russian point of view, astronaut makes no sense, whilst cosmonaut does

>>12168182
yeah well kosmonaut is an actual word that russians use. astronaut is an actual word that americans use. taikonaut is fanfiction

>>12168178
Well English definitely isn't the only language to do this. In Finnish we have the word Kuu (moon) and Kuukausi (month) which literally translates to moon season

>>12167766
>>12167797
I drew up what using a Dipole Drive tug with Greason's 2500kg Neptune orbiter demo mission might look like.

>>12168191
Well mine fucking didn't

>>12168189
Taikonaut comes from the word taikong (space) and has been an official term since 1998

>>12168198
What language do you speak?

>>12168205
Ger

>>12168199
it is not an official term and no one except popsci morons use it. just because some english speaker made it up doesn't make it a real thing dumbass

>>12168209
Not me

>>12168209
but mond and monat do the same thing anon...

>>12167195
Where did you think month as a unit of time came from?

>>12168216
yea I'm spanish, no idea who that was.

>>12168211
but it works best for the english language, unless you want to say tàikōngrén to be accurate

>>12166628
>mini starship and chill

>>12168199
>>12168228
A Chinese astronaut is called yǔháng yuán (宇航员). Taikonaut is an American invention. Most English natives with self respect just say "Chinese astronaut"

>>12168211
Yeah I agree. The word is astronaut, but cosmonaut exists because it comes from кocмoнaвт (kosmonavt) and they got to space first. In reality americans should have just called it cosmonaut but they were salty during the space race. There are weird exceptions like the Chinese calling them space-universe navigating personnel, which doesn't translate well... but for all intents and purposes its astronaut/cosmonaut because they are the same thing. Taikonaut is popsci and if every country wants to create a name for their own personnel they are just being gay

>>12168223
Now I'm kinda curious about the etymology of mes vs luna. Also, I wonder if there's any connection between luna and lunes.

>>12168219
economy because of how much it's involved with money. Or the church. Like something non scientific because of the idiotic handling of each months duration.

>>12168234
>"russian astronaut"

>>12168246
It's in the name, anon.
>mo(o)nth

>>12168248
That was already established but thanks for repeating, anon.

>>12168242
>if every country wants to create a name for their own personnel they are just being gay
I kinda think countries having their own terms is a cool mark of distinction for any nation that can independently put people in space

>>12168234
not an american invention. it was coined by Zhao Liyu in 1998 and Chen Lan brought it to western media

>>12162394
anything interesting happening with the space force?

>>12168247
yes, or kosmonaut

>>12168181
We're fucked.

>>12168181
First confirmed sighting of aliens on Mars in 2034

>>12168257
>>12168258
you don't really think the chinese call themselves taikonauts do you? lmao

>>12168278
Or worse, this is the first thing they pick up and decrypt from starlink. That and a random season of anime.

europeanaut

>>12168282
no, but it works better for english and helps to separate different types of space explorers.

Though pretty much I believe different "nauts" can be named only if their country of origin has the capability to send people into orbit

none of you will care because who it is but estronaut calls out nasa and boeing big time in one of his latest videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O15vipueLs

New HULLO vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp8jbP_22c

>>12168297
we dont need separate words for every country's astronauts. there's no word in english for "russian sailor" or "french sailor" etc. astronaut and kosmonaut are both real words used by their respective countries. taikonaut is a borderline propaganda term used in media alone

>>12168309
I really want that lego ISS

>>12168300
shut up faggot, i'll watch what i want and decide for myself. you are a nigger, kill yourself chud

>>12166615
>>12168229
I GOT YOUR MINI STARSHIP RIGHT HERE

>>12168318
you again

Mission control i need your strongest propellants.

>>12168318

Looks like the terminator is slightly west of Mare Humorum.

>>12168325
>classic vicon hay rake
a man of taste

>>12168337
>MARE FECUNDITATIS
>>>/mlp/

>>12168335
behold my power

>>12168367
Is that the N1?

>>12168375
the N10000000000000000000000000

>>12168375
yes it is, and it's coming for you

>>12168313
You're in luck, it's an official kit you can get at the LEGO site or Amazon for 70 bucks.

>>12168290
Jesus Christ that's terrible!

back up chump

Okay Br/sfg/os,
it's 2025 and for some reason
>Zimbabwe
and
>Venezuela
have a spacerace. Both countries have no significant change of course in economy or wealth to this point,
but there is an unshakable desire in beating the respective other nation both politically and socially through all social groups. which is just one by then.

What happens?

>>12168481
NO2/Prop fuel blend?

>>12168496
Zimbabwe would at least have be able to by shit from the chinks plus their Mars colony

>>12168496
Both factions also have talked major shit about each others and the international community is way too intrigued into what will happen next to intervene, except airdropping tons of popcorn on poor neighbouring countries.

>>12168496
Venezuela has oil, so they could go with RP-1, and then bus some Venezuelans up to boca chica by pretending to be mexican tourists whilst taking notes on steel watertower construction

>>12168500
HYPERGOLIC
ZIMBABWEAN
STARSHIPS

Guess what SpaceX stans, mini starship IS HAPPENING. I can't wait to see you squirm when Elon himself announces it hand in hand with Zubrin at the october update. You guys are so fucked

>>12168554
What is a "mini starship"?

>>12168562
Here, I'll draw it for you

>>12168003
>>12167995
Falcon heavy has 27 engines, and works lel
Falcon 9 has 9 engines, and fuckloads of launches, and has only ever had 1 engine fail, during one of the f9 1.0 launches years ago, the rocket still made it to orbit
SpaceX's bread and butter is engines, they can print state of the art engines that are reliable like it's nobody's business

Q.
Were any of the threads from time when spacex started to build watertower archieved?
It would be interesting for historical understanding purposes to re-see reactions.

>>12168575
of course
>>/sci/thread/S10237471

I couldn't find a hi res version of this spacex render so i used an algorithm

>>12168586
>crashes into the martian ground just soft enough to let the crew survive, but hard enough to destroy the vehicle
what do?

>>12168596
buy my book

>>12168601
The shitty compression makes it even funnier haha

>>12168596
I suppose they would just die? Slowly, painfully

>>12168596
Survive on food rations and wait for the next starship to come pick me up

I have an announcement

>>12168582
thanks!

>>12168628
EVERYONE BE QUIET

>>12168596
take a big shit

>>12168582
"

>>10237554
This is why I'm doubtful.

>>10237557
>Nobody except state sponsored rockets are going to survive Starship entering the market.
This is also why I'm doubtful. Extraordinary claims, such as what this scenario amounts to, require extraordinary evidence, so I'm unconvinced they're going to trounce everyone."
will this guy kill himself upon starship's first orbital flight?

>>12168596
Build a colony at or near the crash site
This isn’t gonna be another Roanoke

>>12168596
SCIENCE THE SHIT OUT OF IT HAHAHAHA FUCK

>>12168582
>>12168575
The spaceX landing threads from 2015 were gold lmao, same for Falcon Heavy

>>12168628
>>12168629
I HAVE DISCOVERED ELECTRICITY

>>12168636
get a load of this guy

>>12168658
Methane...comes from farts

Friendly reminder for you Muskbaby shills, scrubs, pad explosions, collapsed landing legs, and exploded engines will never get humans to Mars

>>12168677
w-where am i? who are you??

>>12168686
>”I’m you, but on Mars”

>>12168682
uhh why is Mengele overlapped with LOPG

>>12168601
Based merchant of despair

>>12168481
>"I'm gonna make the N1 look like a fucking joke"
>posted from ULA HQ

>>12168695
Because it’s the angel of death toll booth for a manned mars mission

>>12168682
>>12168682
you're about to get hey stinky'd by elon musk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2WTMpXjS4

>>12168562
Hi Bob!

>>12168636
On mars it's not called "shit", but rather "mart".
Your're taking a big mart, hon.

>>12168752

>>12168762
hi bob!

>>12168762
Honestly he should just shave his hair already and maybe grow a beard to even it out, since his current haircut is the embodiment of JUST.

>>12168596
Use the tools and repurpose the starship by cutting/welding the steel to appropriate structures.

>>12168783

>>12168329
kek

>>12168791
>PROPELLANT DEPOTS PROPELLANT DEPOTS PROPELLANT DEPOTS PROPELLANT DEPOTS

>>12168817
lol

>>12168329
You can't handle my propellants, traveler

>>12168817
can you dig it?

ZUBRIN
LIVES!

>>12168834
hi bob!

>>12168840
No but I can probably print it

>>12168852
like.. in 3D?

Prediction: NASA will down select to the Dynetic and Starship landers, but give Dynetics the majority of funding.