/sci/ - Science & Math

Wrong in what direction?

>/sci/ is a collective mind
don't lump me in with mr. clamp

>>12165681
clampbro is unironically the smartest guy here

topic has been coopted by a manipulative ruling class media.
Most of /sci is incapable of having a rational discussion on moldy pomanders, because of cognitive bias related to political polarization.

>>12165651

>>12165726
Curve has been flattened, hospitasl are no longer at rish of being overwhelmed, there is literally zero reason to continue wearing masks, keeping distance, etc

>>12166042
now all we have to do is kill off 2-3 million to get our herd "mentality"

You first

>>12166052
If you don't want to get infected, stay home.

>>12166052
Last time i checked 1% of sweden didn't die

>>12166101
Sweden hasn't reached herd immunity. New York may be close, however.

>>12166101
>swedentard
THERES ALWAYS ONE

>>12166132
*many

>>12166042
"flattening" was bullshit. The best course of action was absolutely not letting the shit pass. The curve now is "flattened' and widened.

>>12166141
The best course of action was
a)Recommend old people to be careful
b)Maybe introduce strict regime at places like nursing homes
c)Do nothing with the rest of population.
This way you will quickly get collective immunity with almost no deaths.

>>12166132
It's always the same one.

>>12165651
>Why won’t /sci/ ever admit they were wrong about the coronavirus?
I will. It’s way less of a threat than I initially assumed it to be. If anything, it’s saved the west by highlighting the China problem.

>>12166144
>This way you will quickly get collective immunity with almost no deaths.
And millions of people with long term health issues as a result.

>>12165651
What do you mean? The threads I remember talked about the long-term organ damage that was evident pretty much from the start. It was also mentioned that the back then death rate was overblown since testing was scarce. Pretty much turned out right on every level.

>>12166162
All of the studies that I've seen pointing to long term health issues (heart, brain, kidney damage) seem to either have a remarkably small sample size, include only the elderly, or are conducted solely on already-hospitalized patients, including in cases where those patients were allegedly asymptomatic.

>>12166171
Thousands of asymptomatic patients have been studied at this point, and lung damage is incredibly common. Another alarming trend is that up to 35% of mild infections (symptomatic but not requiring hospitalization) are turning into long-haulers.

>>12166181
> and lung damage is incredibly common
It isn't.
>35% of mild infections (symptomatic but not requiring hospitalization) are turning into long-haulers.
They don't.

>>12166188
>It isn't.
Over 50% isn't common?

>They don't.
Oh, okay. I hope someone will let all those people know that they're no longer ill.

>>12166202
No, if you cherrypick thousand out of millions and call anything you can find severe lung damage, that will still not make the disease more dangerous.
> let all those people know that they're no longer ill.
They know that.

>>12166130
>Sweden hasn't reached herd immunity.
Then why do they have very small amount deaths for several months?
> New York may be close, however.
It may, but it also has several times more deaths per capita.

>>12166214
>No, if you cherrypick thousand out of millions
You don't know what cherrypick means. We have asymptomatic patients studied from many different countries in different situations. The trend of silent lung damage is persisting. That's not cherrypicking. Do you really expect all 30 million people to get CT scans?

>that will still not make the disease more dangerous.
Plugging your ears and pretending something doesn't exist won't make it less dangerous.

>>12166218
You're confused about what herd immunity means, apparently.

>>12166232
If not having herd immunity and not doing lockdowns/masks still leads to almost no deaths, then call it whatever, but it is still great.

>>12166214
Idiot.
>>12166229
Don't forget inflammatory heart tissue damage. Myocarditis is the most common problem and scar tissue on the heart the culprit. Next is the brain.

>>12166229
>The trend of silent lung damage is persisting.
It does not. Hardly any survivors have persisting lung damage and small minoruity who do are old with comorbidities.
>Plugging your ears and pretending something doesn't exist won't make it less dangerous.
Pretending that something benign actually has some hidden danger (after previous claims about its danger failed) will not make it more dangerous.

>>12166245
Whatever you say, but case counts show Sweden clearly doesn't have herd immunity, in fact their health czar is even blaming the rise in cases on lack of proper social distancing and failure to follow health guidelines. If there was herd immunity, those things shouldn't matter.

>>12166250
Happily nothing of that is true. Just like claims about some horrible death rate for corona.

>>12166258
It has very small number of deaths for several months already. If it's some secret magic and not "herd immunity", then herd immunity is completely unnecessary and so are lockdowns and masks.

>>12166255
>Hardly any survivors have persisting lung damage
Cool. So they've been studied and showed *not* to have lung damage? I'd love to see that. Where can I find that information?

>>12166263
Herd immunity has nothing to do with deaths, it has to do with protection from getting infected in the first place because there's no one to pass the virus. The fact that it's spreading at an increased rate shows there is no herd immunity.

>>12166264
You asset the lung damage exists. It is up to you to prove it does. It is not up to everyone else to assume your argument is correct and then go find evidence disproving it. You prove it correct first, then others will try to disprove it.

>>12166264
Fine, but if you will first prove to me that you are not an alien with viral anencephaly. Because supposedly it's you who should prove that some outrageous claim *did not* happen.

>>12166250
Myocarditis occurs with any viral infection, even with common cold viruses

>>12166273
If some disease leads to almost no deaths without immunity and without protective measures, then such a disease is simply irrelevant and is a benign cold.

>>12166274
Okay, but you need to do the same. You just made a claim hardly any survivors have persisting lung damage. If you're not going to back that up with studies, then why should I bother wasting my time? Especially when you could simply google "asymptomatic lung damage" and be greeted with dozens of studies showing it's a common occurrence.

>>12166278
>If some disease leads to almost no deaths without immunity
Deaths are in the millions.

>>12166282
Masks and lockdowns lead to brain cancer in 90% of cases. If you disagree, provide your studies which disprove that.

>>12166284
1-2 deaths a day is not "millions".

>>12166291
Sweden isn't the only country with the virus. :-)

>>12166296
Then it looks like you forgot what was discussed a few posts above (hint: it's present Swedish state).

>>12166307
You're confused, but I understand, you don't even know what herd immunity is. Sweden does not have herd immunity, we know that from the case count, deaths are irrelevant in that regard, because herd immunity applies to preventing infection, not what happens after someone is infected Your next claim was that "if some disease leads to almost no deaths without immunity and without protective measures," but we also know that's not true because millions have died from it.

>>12166320
>You're confused
If we are discussing Sweden and you respond with "Sweden isn't the only country with the virus. :-)", then it seems like it's you who are confused.
> "if some disease leads to almost no deaths without immunity and without protective measures," but we also know that's not true because millions have died from it.
It seems like you forgot what we were discussing again. Hint: it's current Swedish state, Swedish deaths and Swedish immunity, not the whole world (which still does not have "millions" of deaths by the way).

>>12166162
I haven't seen a single credible study on that
our options now are a vaccine with unknown long term effects or a disease with unknown long term effects and we chose the option that also destroys society and the economy

>>12166278
>moving the goalpost

>>12166259
Keep on ignoring it. I won't pity you when become a perma-coofer.
>>12166277
True, but not the tissue-ravaging that Corona does.

>>12166328
>If we are discussing Sweden
We did, in terms of herd immunity. They don't have it. You then made a general point about the virus not being deadly, at which point we can look at the virus at the world level.

>it's current Swedish state, Swedish deaths and Swedish immunity
Yes, and for some reason you think immunity and deaths are linked, because you refuse to acknowledge what herd immunity means. If the virus is still spreading at a high level, then there's no herd immunity.

>>12166284
not all deaths are equal
for some reason nobody can distinguish between a healthy 20 year old and an 85 year old cancer patient with a bad back

>>12166340
"The disease isn't dangerous and the reaction to it is way worse that the disease itself" is the obvious initial truth. But you just saw "moving the goalpost" phrase in some thread before and decided to use it without understanding, right?

>>12166348
you need to go back

>>12166343
Great, I'll continue to ignore the anti-covid measures as much as I can. Meanwhile you should stay home forever to avoid coofing.

>>12166347
>You then made a general point about the virus not being deadly
Non, anon, I made a simple claim: during the few last months death rate in Sweden is negligible. It is not because of lockdowns or masks. Therefore it is either because of immunity or because disease isn't actually bad. Maybe you have some secret third option?
>Yes, and for some reason you think immunity and deaths are linked, because you refuse to acknowledge what herd immunity means. If the virus is still spreading at a high level, then there's no herd immunity.
If virus is spreading, yet almost no one dies, then the virus turned from a somewhat harsh seasonal cold to a mild seasonal cold and does not merit any response.

>>12166328
Not him. You said Sweden has herd immunity. For BTFO by the fact it doesn't. Then you said it's a harmless virus then, which got BTFO by the fact that millions are dead alone. You then said that those numbers weren't confined to Sweden, which is idiotic. You can't follow the discussion obviously.
The list death rate is caused by better treatment options and younger people getting it.
>It seems like you forgot what we were discussing again
You brought up Sweden in a pitiful attempt to say the original discussion to something you think you know at least something about. It's not what was originally discussed. Sweden is also very small. Why do you even think it matters in a discussion about 7 billion people?

>>12166352
You need to stay the fuck home.

>>12166339
Then you didn't look. There are several out there with a combined thousands of patients. Long et al on Nature for example.

>>12166351
No. You said there was herd immunity in Sweden, then when someone pointed out you were wrong moved to saying the virus isn't dangerous anyway. Textbook example of moving the goalpost. Remove that anal stick, narcissism is ugly.

>>12166360
If Sweden does not have herd immunity, then why does it have very little deaths? Come on, riddle me this.
>The list death rate is caused by better treatment options and younger people getting it.
That's the perfectly solid argument against any lockdowns. Just advise older people to be careful and introduce stricter regimes at certain rare vulnerable places and you are doing great without any global concentration camp.
>You brought up Sweden in a pitiful attempt to say the original discussion to something you think you know at least something about.
No, we were discussing Sweden, but you pathetically forgot what we were talking about.
> Sweden is also very small.
Then its deaths are also very small.
> Why do you even think it matters in a discussion about 7 billion people?
Because a negligible amount of these people died compared to other causes?

>>12166353
Yeah, why try to solve the problem when you can be part of the cause, right?
Staying at home isn't an option when you have a job, but how would you know?

>>12166368
No, my friend, herd immunity was brought by another poster. If you will read the thread you will notice that. Meanwhile I asked why Sweden has very small death rate now and that was my original question (which made you pretty nervous). So you should learn some reading comprehension instead of moving the goalposts.

>>12166374
>Yeah, why try to solve the problem
Covid is an extremely small problem compared to the anticovidist dystopian craze. So I'm trying to solve it (at least) by noncompliance.
>Staying at home isn't an option when you have a job, but how would you know?
Covidists claim that if you go out, you literally kill people and you should stay the fuck home. Is your job important enough to let you murder people?

Well, my country's statistics agency just posted the yearly (Total) death count ( how many people in the country died regardless of cause) and the number is actually lower than last year when covid was not arround...
How can the total number of dead decline if theres a "black death plague" going around?

>>12166373
>If Sweden does not have herd immunity, then why does it have very little deaths? Come on, riddle me this.
If Sweden has herd immunity, then why is the virus spreading at an increased rate? You have no point, deaths have nothing to do with herd immunity. If I get hit by a car and survive, that doesn't mean I was never hit by the car.

>No, we were discussing Sweden, but you pathetically forgot what we were talking about.
You're talking to at least 2 people, FYI.

>>12166386
>Well, my country's statistics agency
What country?

>>12166388
>You have no point, deaths have nothing to do with herd immunity.
If virus is causing almost no deaths, then it doesn't even matter if you have herd immunity or not - it is a benign cold now and it does not merit any response. If it became benign cold only in Sweden, then it again proves the Swedish success. By the way, as you can clearly see, "herd immunity" was brought in >>12166130 so it's something important for you, not for me.
>You're talking to at least 2 people, FYI.
Then go and read what that other person said instead of getting completely confused.

>>12166373
>why does it have very little deaths?
Same as Germany. Better understanding of the disease, better treatment options, younger average patient. You would have known if you looked it up instead of pulling shit out of your ass.
>That's the perfectly solid argument against any lockdowns
Because only life and death exist? Stop being retarded please. Look at what people who had it say. Six weeks of agony. Plus possible long-term organ damage. You conveniently and consistently ignore these.
>No, we were discussing Sweden, but you pathetically forgot what we were talking about
Ah really? I'm able to click on post numbers to see where this started. You brought up Sweden when something else was discussed. I believe you're simply trolling at this point.
>Then its deaths are also very small.
And hence, irrelevant to the discussion, thanks for proving us right.
>Because a negligible amount of these people died compared to other causes?
You may want to check that number again. Also, again, this is not about deaths.

>>12166396
>If virus is causing almost no deaths, then it doesn't even matter if you have herd immunity or not
Except for all the deaths it has caused and continues to cause.

>By the way, as you can clearly see, "herd immunity" was brought in >>12166130 so it's something important for you, not for me.
That's not where it was initially mentioned.

>Then go and read what that other person said instead of getting completely confused.
I don't even think you've read the thread to be honest, you're all over the place.

>>12166399
the virus turned out to be a meme.
sorry that made you and your hysterical friends look like retards

>>12166377
You didn't call it "herd immunity", but that doesn't matter for the fact that you moved the goalpost from "Sweden does great" to "virus isn't dangerous anyway".

>>12166383
>Covid is an extremely small problem
Wrong.
>anticovidist dystopian craze
Oh boy, a conspiracy theorist! That explains a lot.
>Covidists claim that if you go out, you literally kill people and you should stay the fuck home
Wrong.
>Is your job important enough to let you murder people?
Thankfully, my boss isn't a goddamn idiot. Only one person per office plus home office for those who don't come.

>>12166399
>Same as Germany. Better understanding of the disease, better treatment options, younger average patient. You would have known if you looked it up instead of pulling shit out of your ass.
Wonderful, then provide this "better treatment options" instead of forcing house arrest, muzzles and surveillance on people.
>Because only life and death exist? Stop being retarded please. Look at what people who had it say. Six weeks of agony. Plus possible long-term organ damage. You conveniently and consistently ignore these.
Sure, and there is also a woman who was hit by a meteorite. But if you want no "agony", stay the fuck home and fuck off from others.
>Ah really? I'm able to click on post numbers to see where this started. You brought up Sweden when something else was discussed. I believe you're simply trolling at this point.
Correct, we were discussing Sweden to see the death rates of the virus. You confusing one thing with another is your fault.
>And hence, irrelevant to the discussion, thanks for proving us right.
Then covid itself is completely irrelevant.
>You may want to check that number again. Also, again, this is not about deaths.
Yes, I just checked and the total number of deaths in the world is a bit under million, not several millions.
>this is not about deaths.
Now that's what called a "goalpost moving" - you majestically failed to show that covid is ultradeadly and now switch to different conspiracies.

>>12166401
>Except for all the deaths it has caused and continues to cause.
Judging by the fact that in Sweden they almost stopped, Swedish way is correct way to end them.
>That's not where it was initially mentioned.
No, that's where it was initially mentioned.
>I don't even think you've read the thread to be honest, you're all over the place.
It's you who mistake Sweden with the world, world with Sweden, herd immunity with deaths and so on.

>>12166404
Sure, if you say it, it must be true.
>>12166412
>Wonderful, then provide this "better treatment options" instead of forcing house arrest, muzzles and surveillance on people.
I wonder how you can be so retarded. These treatments lower deaths, but not the other effects. Do you know what being ventilated does to your body?
>Sure, and there is also a woman who was hit by a meteorite. But if you want no "agony", stay the fuck home and fuck off from others.
That retarded argument again. Go look it up if you don't believe me. If you bring me food and money to my home, I will stay at home. Until then, I want you to respect my right not to get infected by you. Forced hosue arrest, surveillance, you're fucking retarded. These don't happen.
>we were discussing Sweden to see the death rates of the virus
No, check again. Go up till the start.
>covid is ultradeadly
You're parroting the same bullshit again and again. Must be trolling.

>>12166411
>Wrong.
Correct. It was worth no response besides maybe protecting nursing homes (certain US states did the opposite).
>Oh boy, a conspiracy theorist! That explains a lot.
Oh no, some secret future consequences are not even necessary. The current abuse and plunder governments openly inflicted on people are perfectly enough.
>Wrong.
Correct. That's literally what they claim.
>Thankfully, my boss isn't a goddamn idiot. Only one person per office plus home office for those who don't come.
Wonderful, then you are also allowed to teleport to your office (you don't want to murder people by using transport, right?).

>>12166424
>Do you know what being ventilated does to your body?
Then arrest ventilator operators who cause 50%? 80%? of people to die (so the number of people under ventilator is essentially included in deaths).
>That retarded argument again. Go look it up if you don't believe me.
Just looked it up, you are inventing conspiracies.
>If you bring me food and money to my home, I will stay at home.
I absolutely agree! Let us pay covidists some small allowance enough to survive - but only if they will never show their muzzled faces outside again. That would be just perfect.
>Until then, I want you to respect my right not to get infected by you.
That's your free choice you entertained by going out. Pic is fully related.
>Forced hosue arrest, surveillance, you're fucking retarded. These don't happen.
That's literally what covidists inflicted and want to continue to inflict on people.
>No, check again. Go up till the start.
Just checked, I'm correct.
>You're parroting the same bullshit again and again. Must be trolling.
If covid causes hardly any deaths, then covidists are destroyed again.

>>12165651
How can anyone criticize the current economic system if the entire planet can be shut down for almost a year, and everyone is still fine?
Doesn't this basically prove that globohomo capitalism is perfect?

>>12166425
>It was worth no response besides maybe protecting nursing homes (certain US states did the opposite).
You saying so doesn't make it right. Sorry.
>The current abuse and plunder governments openly inflicted on people are perfectly enough.
What are you even talking about? There's nothing except for "wear a mask in closed spaces" and "keep distance to people around you". You are insane.
>Correct. That's literally what they claim.
Bullshit. Show proof.
>Wonderful, then you are also allowed to teleport to your office (you don't want to murder people by using transport, right?).
Thank God good measures are taken in public transit as well. Good ventilation, distance and masks and nothing will happen. Cool how that works, huh? Meanwhile, everything else fails. What's even your point?

>>12166431
>pic
Bobody claims or claimed that. You're fighting windmills. All people want is distance and that you wear masks in closed spaces. Everything else is dreamed up by you.
>Then arrest ventilator operators who cause 50%? 80%? of people to die (
I don't know why I even care enough to reply to your retardation. Read again what I wrote. People in need of ventilation die if not ventilated, people being ventilated long enough suffer various long-term symptoms. Not death. Please get some reading comprehension.
>Just looked it up, you are inventing conspiracies
Nah, that would be you. Surely you can produce a link then?
>That's your free choice you entertained by going out.
No. Being unharmed is a basic human right. That's why e.g. battery is an offense. Same retarded "asking for it" argument.
>That's literally what covidists inflicted and want to continue to inflict on people.
Bullshit. Not happening outside of China.
>Just checked, I'm correct.
Surely you can produce a link then.
>If covid causes hardly any deaths, then covidists are destroyed again.
No, as again, this has always been about long-term organ damage. It's you who permanently brings up deaths.

>>12166446
>You saying so doesn't make it right. Sorry.
It is obviously right, just like covidist insanity is obviously wrong.
>What are you even talking about? There's nothing except for "wear a mask in closed spaces" and "keep distance to people around you". You are insane.
How about you read the news? You have all sorts of grotesques around the world up to welding people in buildings and total lockdowns. If your place has only forced muzzles, then congrats.
>Bullshit. Show proof.
Ah, sorry I am wrong. If I go out I don't kill people. Then I guess I'll continue to go out a lot.
>Thank God good measures are taken in public transit as well.
Wonderful! Now if everything is so great and you have little chance to get disease, stop your covidism. And if there is a huge chance, stay home.
>Good ventilation, distance and masks and nothing will happen.
Happily many people ignore that.
>Meanwhile, everything else fails.
As Sweden shows you need no muzzles to fight the cough.

>>12166458
Oh no, don't try to gaslight me. After the whole world had various degrees of lockdowns and covidists fought for more, your "distance and masks only" is a blatant lie. But I am ready not to get close to you - unless the place is crowded. No muzzle though - wear it yourself.
>I don't know why I even care enough to reply to your retardation. Read again what I wrote. People in need of ventilation die if not ventilated, people being ventilated long enough suffer various long-term symptoms. Not death. Please get some reading comprehension.
Ventilators kill people at such a high rate that it's fairly questionable if they have any use (or are not actively harmful). Anyway, ventilated people are a small fraction of people who died, so it does nothing to change stats.
>Nah, that would be you. Surely you can produce a link then
Just look it up yourself, it's easy ;-) You asked me to do that, so I'm returning the favour.
>No. Being unharmed is a basic human right. That's why e.g. battery is an offense. Same retarded "asking for it" argument.
If going out can harm someone, then you are a criminal yourself. And if it can't, then I'll go out as much as I can.
>Bullshit. Not happening outside of China.
China, Europe and many other places around the world.
>Surely you can produce a link then.
You asked to go up to the start, so you clearly saw that.
>No, as again, this has always been about long-term organ damage.
No, that's your goalpost-moving conspiracy, after the deadliness claims failed.

>>12166386
>How can the total number of dead decline if theres a "black death plague" going around?
less traffic accidents,murder,etc
this should be the case in most countries following lockdown

Sure. I didn't expect the measures to actually be so effective and that people would follow the guidelines.

Wasn't worth it at all, still a flu and only a danger to the infirm, but I'm impressed by the sheer dedication of society to pull together and fuck itself when there's cause to do so.

Ever notice how the most offensive shitposters on /sci/are from non American states where they have been bred to believe America is a great satan? It's just an interesting observation given this thread.

>>12166489
America is nice, it had saner reaction to covid compared to many countries. Of course it happened mainly due to the Republicans.

>>12166461
>How about you read the news?
Post link or gtfo.
>If I go out I don't kill people
Same bullshit argument as before. Try all you want. Nobody claims this.
>Happily many people ignore that.
So you're agreeing that ignoring these simple things helps spreading the virus, causes prolonged measures and makes the economy suffer? And that adhering to these simple things would shorten the pandemic? Cool, thanks.
>As Sweden shows you need no muzzles to fight the cough.
Check again. All Sweden does is not enforce wearing masks, they rely on common sense for people to distance and protect themselves. You are delusional.

>>12166474
>After the whole world had various degrees of lockdowns
Show specifically what you mean. Nobody except China had lockdowns. Even if you and some "news" outlets call it that.
>your "distance and masks only" is a blatant lie
Show evidence of your claims or shut up.
>You asked me to do that, so I'm returning the favour.
I could post links. Apparently you can't.
>If going out can harm someone
Nobody said that you need to stay at home, why do you keep bringing it up? Maybe /pol/ is a better board for you?
>Europe and many other places around the world
Small parts of France and Italy, nobody else. Show proof of your claim or shut up.
>that's your goalpost-moving conspiracy
No, that has always been my argument. Do you even know what "moving the goalpost" means? It seems you have a lot of trouble with reading comprehension.

>>12166558
>Same bullshit argument as before. Try all you want. Nobody claims this.
See lockdowns in Italy, Spain, UK, Russia, India, Israel and so on.
>Same bullshit argument as before. Try all you want. Nobody claims this.
If going out doesn't kill, then I'll go out as much as I want. If it does, you stay home.
>So you're agreeing that ignoring these simple things helps spreading the virus, causes prolonged measures and makes the economy suffer?
No, prolonged measures are caused by malignant enforcers of these measures. The best tactic are protests and voting against them, but noncompliance is OK too. It can also be comfier.
> And that adhering to these simple things would shorten the pandemic?
Of course not, to stop the pandemics you need to encourage going out to get the immunity sooner.
>Check again. All Sweden does is not enforce wearing masks, they rely on common sense for people to distance and protect themselves. You are delusional.
If common sense is enough, then all other measures are malignant.

>>12166569
>Show specifically what you mean. Nobody except China had lockdowns. Even if you and some "news" outlets call it that.
That's absolute bullshit, you probably didn't follow 2020 at all.
>Show evidence of your claims or shut up.
See above.
>I could post links. Apparently you can't.
No, you can't.
>Nobody said that you need to stay at home, why do you keep bringing it up?
Wow, lockdowns are the fantasy? Safer-at-home orders never existed? Closing the businesses is a fairy tale? You are clueless.
>Maybe /pol/ is a better board for you?
Covid is political problem, but alas, it is claimed as scientific, so we can discuss it as such.
>Small parts of France and Italy, nobody else. Show proof of your claim or shut up.
That's already a progress compared to your only-china claim.
>No, that has always been my argument. Do you even know what "moving the goalpost" means?
Yes, it's when government installs lockdowns because of the terrible deadly disease, but it turns out to be not-so-deadly, so you invent new organ-damaging conspiracy.

>>12166569
Here, enjoy the list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_responses_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic
>and on 16 March, French President Emmanuel Macron announced mandatory home confinement, a policy which was extended at least until 11 May
>On 24 March 2020, the United Kingdom brought in "some of the most far-reaching curbs on personal freedom ever introduced" in peacetime, including a three-week lockdown of the country. This included a ban on public gatherings of more than two people (excluding those one lives with) and the closing down of all non-essential businesses.
>On 14 March, due to the increased number of cases, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez declared a state of alarm, placing all citizens in quarantine except for those working in healthcare or other vital activities, closing all non-critical businesses, and only allowing citizens to go outside for activities such as grocery shopping or walking a pet.
>On 29 March, Moscow issued a stay-at-home order for all residents starting on 30 March.
>Israelis were not allowed to leave their homes unless absolutely necessary.
>On 24 March, the government announced a nationwide lockdown to be in effect for 21 days from 25 March until 14 April.[278] This lockdown included Indian Railways, the biggest employer in India; it was the first shutdown of the trains in 167 years
Many more, many more. Have you totally missed 2020?

>>12166569
Also enjoy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_and_local_government_responses_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic

>>12166218
>Then why do they have very small amount deaths for several months?
Because there are two possible S proteins.
Either one is just the cold.
But get the other one after you came through the other one, and you are pretty much dead.
Travel restrictions may limit deaths initially by not allowing the strains to mix, but the strains are just a mutation away - every nonsymptomatic carrier has essentially "schrödinger AIDS": the virus can mutate at any moment into the lethal form that will not only kill them, but also can spread to anyone around them. Basically if you attempt heard immunity, you basically kill everyone, and you will have uncontainable deadly outbreaks popping up at random.

>>12166601
>See lockdowns in Italy, Spain, UK, Russia, India, Israel and so on.
There were no lockdowns. See for example
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do
>If going out doesn't kill, then I'll go out as much as I want. If it does, you stay home.
Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? We already established that nobody is trying to force you to stay at home. You still couldn't produce a source.
>No, prolonged measures are caused by malignant enforcers of these measures.
That's a symptom, not the cause.
>Of course not, to stop the pandemics you need to encourage going out to get the immunity sooner.
There is no immunity. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2025179
See also other publications, and older research about the human body's immune response to Coronaviruses.
>If common sense is enough, then all other measures are malignant.
It isn't enough, as is evident by the rising infection numbers.

>>12166681
>There were no lockdowns.
>Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? We already established that nobody is trying to force you to stay at home.
That's blatant lie, see >>12166657 >>12166660
>That's a symptom, not the cause.
No, that's the only problem we have. If we have someone who locks the country due to a cough, he will lock it next year after the different cough.
>There is no immunity.
Then why do deaths almost stop in Sweden who has no lockdown or masks?
>It isn't enough, as is evident by the rising infection numbers.
So you introduced the dystopia and then failed to even contain the disease? Truly a success.

>>12166612
>That's absolute bullshit, you probably didn't follow 2020 at all.
Show me which country forced people to stay at home. There were parts of France and Italy, but nothing else. You misunderstand what lockdown means. Closing some businesses isn't a lockdown.
>>Show evidence of your claims or shut up.
This.
>No, you can't.
What do you want me to post?
>Safer-at-home orders never existed?
You said people are forced to stay at home. Now you're changing this to people are encouraged to stay at home. What now?
>You are clueless.
No, you are dreaming up a fairytale.
>That's already a progress compared to your only-china claim.
Well, even in those communities people weren't locked up and were allowed to go outside. No comparison to a lockdown.
>not-so-deadly
You're STILL using that bullshit argument. Why? Because you have no other argument?
> new organ-damaging conspiracy.
No, this has been known since at least February. See for example https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051582/man-killed-coronavirus-had-organ-damage-similar-caused-sars

>>12166657
>President Emmanuel Macron announced mandatory home confinement, a policy which was extended at least until 11 May
Not for the whole country, just small communities where it was ravaging. Already mentioned that.
>United Kingdom brought in "some of the most far-reaching curbs on personal freedom ever introduced" in peacetime, including a three-week lockdown of the country. This included a ban on public gatherings of more than two people (excluding those one lives with) and the closing down of all non-essential businesses.
Not a lockdown. No enforced stay-at-home as you claim.
>Minister Pedro Sánchez declared a state of alarm, placing all citizens in quarantine except for those working in healthcare or other vital activities, closing all non-critical businesses, and only allowing citizens to go outside for activities such as grocery shopping or walking a pet.
See above plus
>allowing citizens to go outside
>Moscow issued a stay-at-home order for all residents starting on 30 March.
I didn't know about that. I'll look into it.
>government announced a nationwide lockdown to be in effect for 21 days from 25 March until 14 April.
Not a lockdown.

>>12166689
>Show me which country forced people to stay at home.
A vast multitude of countries, see >>12166657
>This.
See above.
>What do you want me to post?
You show me the link which shows that most of coronavirus cases end with significant organ damage. Not "some man somewhere lost 1% of lung function for a week"
>You said people are forced to stay at home. Now you're changing this to people are encouraged to stay at home. What now?
Both.
>No, you are dreaming up a fairytale.
Are you a time-traveller from 2019?
>Well, even in those communities people weren't locked up and were allowed to go outside. No comparison to a lockdown.
That's bullshit (not that lighter measures are not gross abuse too).
>You're STILL using that bullshit argument. Why?
Because the awful dystopia you praise is based on obvious lies.
>https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051582/man-killed-coronavirus-had-organ-damage-similar-caused-sars
Wow, some man in China got organ damage in February? Truly a reason to stay home forever. But what about meteorites?

>>12166685
>That's blatant lie, see
If you start calling everything a lockdown, sure, we're still in lockdown. That's not reality though. It just sounds better and is easier to write for newspapers.
>No, that's the only problem we have
Bullshit. If Corona is gone, so is the need for measures.
>Then why do deaths almost stop in Sweden who has no lockdown or masks?
Learn to read, this was explained several times now.
>So you introduced the dystopia and then failed to even contain the disease?
No. Learn to read.

>>12166701
So all of these countries did, in fact, install a lockdown. But your
>government announced a nationwide lockdown
>not a lockdown
is pretty fun.

>>12166710
>You show me the link which shows that most of coronavirus cases end with significant organ damage. Not "some man somewhere lost 1% of lung function for a week"
Never claimed that. Also
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists
https://www.helmholtz.de/en/health/what-damage-is-potentially-left-behind-after-surviving-an-infection/
Etc.
I won't honor your other trolling with any more time-wasting.

>>12166715
Again, it doesn't magically become a lockdown just by calling it one. Closing some businesses isn't a lockdown..

>>12166712
>If you start calling everything a lockdown, sure, we're still in lockdown. That's not reality though. It just sounds better and is easier to write for newspapers.
Yes, there is still a lockdown (continuing or repeated) in many places. As you said, others call it a lockdown too, because that's what it is.
>Bullshit. If Corona is gone, so is the need for measures.
Corona merits no more measures than seasonal flu. If someone installs someting completely inadequate, then corona was just a cause and he can easily use different cause for that.
>Learn to read, this was explained several times now.
No, you didn't because it crashes your mask-lockdown theory.
>No. Learn to read.
Sweden has monthly amount of deaths order smaller than USA deaths per day. That's without masks and with minimum of other abuses.

>>12166718
Your articles say only that some people may get sick after getting corona. If you claimed just that, then congrats, it's nothing and adds nothing to the necessity of corona measures. No, "someone somewhere can get somewhat sick" is not really dangerous.
>I won't honor your other trolling with any more time-wasting.
Bye then, anon! Wear a muzzle and stay home.

>>12166731
>Sweden has monthly amount of deaths
I'm tired of your trolling. Bye.

>>12166720
"Closing some businesses" is already an abuse, but it's far from the thing which happened in many places.

>>12166735
>Your articles say only that some people may get sick after getting corona.
If by "some" you mean 10-20%, yeah. Have fun with your heavily impeded workforce.

>>12166740
>far from the thing which happened in many places
Where do they force healthy people to stay at home, which is what you claimed?

>>12166737
Yes, anon, Sweden has 50-60 deaths per month, meanwhile USA has almost thousand per day. Your mystical organ damage conspiracy completely failed too, so bye! Don't attempt trolling next time.

>>12166741
10-20% of Swedes are seriously impeded? Surely you can provide a source for that claim. Inb4
>but only 1% of Swedes had corona!
Then it's just 0.1-0.2% (which isn't proven too).

>>12166748
>>12166657

>>12166488
>I'm impressed by the sheer dedication of society to pull together
They didn't though. Blacks and marxists have been rioting the entire time, and the same media and health authorities that want everyone to be mad at imaginary "anti maskers" have done nothing but cheer them on.
Unless it's some kind of socially aware virus that's decided to step aside in solidarity or some shit, there is no argument that can be made that justifies the lockdowns yet praises the riots. If "systemic racism" or "capitalism", or "cisnormativity" or some other gay shit is a greater threat to world health than the virus, then the virus is a meme.

Should we have shut down the entire planet during swine flu, bird flu, etc?
Should we shut down the planet again in a couple of years once the next meme virus emerges?
This is utterly unsustainable, and people trying to use this kind of disruption in order to say:
>OMG look the system has failed lol
are shooting themselves in the foot. The fact that the system has held up so well *validates* the system. No other system in history could survive the entire planet being shut down for this length of time with minimal interruptions to supply chains or increases in prices.
If the pandemic has convinced me of anything its that capitalism is basically the optimal system.

>>12166181
> asymptomatic patients with lung damage

>>12167811
Correct.

>>12167839
It even has a name, happy hypoxia. Low-grade hypoxia that isn't enough to cause noticeable breathing difficulties. It leads to necrosis of lung tissue, which eventually becomes scarring.

>>12166416
>Swedish way is correct way to end them
Sweden has a very small population and much of it is rural. When summer hit many people went outdoors which helped decrease the number of cases. This is expected to change once winter hits and people are forced indoors again.

Remember, to defeat a virus you simply need the R factor to be below 1. If the R factor rises above 1 the disease spreads again. All Sweden managed to do was get their R below 1 for a few months.

Meanwhile you can tell Sweden failed because of its cases compared to its neighboring countries, not by comparing it to high population countries like England and the United States. You're not doing this and are therefore misconstruing the data.

Look at the US as an example. The president of the United States denied there was a disease and told his people it 'was just the flu' for months. Despite lockdowns put in place people broke them, the president encouraged this. We have pictures of college kids going to beaches for spring break despite lockdowns. The virus spread further in the United States. Despite health experts pleading for lockdowns to continue the president encouraged states to lift them. Lockdowns were lifted while cases continued to rise, the disease spread even further. People went to motorcycle rallies and rock concerts. The disease spread even faster despite the fact that it was summer. Sweden was not going to motorcycle rallies and rock concerts.

The US has the most deaths from Coronavirus of any nation on the planet. Despite having only 4% of the population they have 25% of its deaths. This is what you get when you do nothing to curb a pandemic. Sweden is only lucky because their population is small and remote, the US is what happens when you are trying to reach 'herd immunity' you so stupidly praise.

>>12166759
You claim people are forced to stay at home. I don't see anything of the sort in that article.

>>12167884
>Sweden has a very small population and much of it is rural.
Thanks for starting your post with such a majestic nonsense that you don't even need to read the rest. Sweden urbanization rate is 88%, one of the highest in the world.

>>12166042
Then the curve would stop being flattened you retard

>>12168138
>Sweden urbanization rate is 88%, one of the highest in the world.
Still, it has only one city of around 1milluon, and lots and lots of towns with tens of thousands.

>>12168138
>National definition of 'urban'
>Sweden
>Built-up areas with 200 inhabitants or more and where houses are at most 200 metres apart.

>>12166445
not everyone is fine. i live in a major american city. some of my favorite cafes and restaurants have permanently closed.

>>12168448
Sure, and it has 35 times less deaths compared to USA. Masks surely did work great, right? Not 2 times, not 5 or 10 times, but 35 times more great.

>>12170003
You keep missing the point and making idiotic statements.
Try to find an argument not revolving around Sweden, if you can't understand that Sweden isnt in any way a good data point.

>>12170113
No, Sweden is an good data point (it is even better because a significant portion of deaths happened due to local hospital fuckups and not due to the general population being free). But great, you provide me a list of countries without lockdowns or forced masks and we compare.
>You keep missing the point and making idiotic statements.
If you don't understand the difference between absolute and per capita numbers, make idiotic statements about rurality, call >10M country very small and make even more glaring errors, then it's solely on you.

>>12170156
Im not the Anon you were talking to.
>Argue without Sweden
>brings up Sweden again
youstrolling.jpg

>>12170178
No, anon, I will not stop arguing using Sweden as an example just because you want it so much.
> But great, you provide me a list of countries without lockdowns or forced masks and we compare.
Anyway, if all countries had enforced muzzles, then it would be even better argument in favour of the muzzles being harmful - full suppression of the alternative data.

Also if you are not The Same Anon, then don't jump into the discussion defending his (and yours) idiocy.

>>12170156
>>12170183
As I posted above, Sweden only calls itself "urban" by classifying all but the tiniest settlements "urban". It's the population of a major city spread over the area of Sweden.

>>12170242
No, Sweden is more urban than most countries of the world, and also has 15-20% living in Stockholm which is again more that most other capitals have. It also has half of the country basically empty, so the population is concentrated in the remaining half (specifically in Stockholm and other cities).

>>12170248
>No, Sweden is more urban than most countries of the world
No it doesn't: >>12168476

>>12170248
>No, Sweden is more urban than most countries of the world
No it isn't: >>12168476 Basically if you live in a village of 250, you still count as "urban" by the Swedish definition.

>>12170253
No, it "does" - your random decision to avoid counting some areas as urban does not change anything (and even if you'll randomly drop them out, you will still get majority of population living in concentrated areas, so you will not add anything to your cause).

>>12170255
But it's completely ridiculous to count a place with a few hundred people as urban.
If Sweden was a city, it wouldn't make it into the top 20.

>>12170183
>Also if you are not The Same Anon, then don't jump into the discussion defending his (and yours) idiocy
Newfag. Also, I didn't defend him, I attacked your lack of reason.
Just look at the data for countries with enforced mask wearing yourself. It's easy. Spoiler: they were the first to get it under control.
>No, anon, I will not stop arguing using Sweden as an example
So you have no point whatsoever apart from your projected image of the Swedish response and conspiracies about le gubberment taking away our freedoms. Okay.

>>12170265
As said, if you will drop all the smaller locations, you will still get majority of population living in larger locations (and you will need to do the same to all other countries). Even if you have a lot of tiny villages, their total population is small due to them being tiny. In fact, if you will limit everything to the largest city/capital, Sweden will still win if compared to most other countries.
>If Sweden was a city, it wouldn't make it into the top 20.
The total population is irrelevant, unless you compare total deaths (in which case see >>12170113)

>>12170279
That's correct, your newfagish "but that wasn't me" excuse does not work. Either disavow himn or defend him, but don't try to do the both at once with samefagging.
>Just look at the data for countries with enforced mask wearing yourself.
Yes, USA, Spain, UK, Italy, Mexico, Peru love masks and they have more deaths than Sweden both absolutely and relatively.
>So you have no point whatsoever apart from your projected image of the Swedish response and conspiracies about le gubberment taking away our freedoms. Okay.
No, I'm using Sweden as a good example of the fact that not raping your population does not cause any black death genocide. But you are free to use other countries who had no lockdowns and forced masks. And if absolutely all countries enforced masks everywhere, then you'd lose any way to argue in favour of them.

>>12170285
Stockholm has a bit over 1k deaths per 1M, it would sit right on top withthe exception of San Marino, which might be a statistical anomaly due to the tiny population few deaths.

>>12170297
It's still noticeably less than New York (whole state, not New York City which has it even worse).

>>12170285
Stockholm has a bit over 1k deaths per 1M, it would sit right on top with the exception of San Marino, which might be a statistical anomaly due to the tiny population and few deaths.
>>12170291
Samefagging means the exact opposite retard. It means one person posting to make it look there are multiple people defending the idea. You see the opposite because your argument is retarded

>>12166320
Making more tests increases the number of "cases".

>>12170301
> It means one person posting to make it look there are multiple people defending the idea.
Which may be the case, but it doesn't even matter. If you agree with that totally-different-anon, defend his idea. If you disagree, say so. I'm not interested in i-kind-of-agree-but-kind-of-disagree-but-he-is-totally-different-anon ramblings on the anonymous board.

>>12170291
>That's correct, your newfagish "but that wasn't me" excuse does not work. Either disavow himn or defend him, but don't try to do the both at once with samefagging.
Honestly, I don't even understand what this paragraph means.
>USA, Spain
>love masks
Are you high? Also, Italy was hit hard in the beginning and slow with their response. Since you're arguing with deaths rates; theirs has been roughly constant since July. How about you try to have an open mind and accept that the facts do not coincide with your world view?

>>12170305
This. Basically by manipulating your testing you can draw every trend you want (and invention of "asymptomatic" cases makes it even more arbitrary).

>>12170306
I din't care about the other anon and for what reason he disagrees with you, I disagree with you for the reasons I stated. Stop caring about who is posting and reply to the post instead.

>>12170311
>Honestly, I don't even understand what this paragraph means.
That I'm not interested if you are him, his wife, or his total stranger. Argue about ideas, not about your anonymous identities.
>theirs has been roughly constant since July.
If we count since July, then epidemics basically causes no deaths both in Sweden and multitude of other countries. So it turns from "somewhat serious cold which is noticeable but does not merit dystopia" into "literally nothing".
>How about you try to have an open mind and accept that the facts do not coincide with your world view?
Facts fully support me though.

>>12170313
"Inventing" asymptomatic cases would make it seem milder, not worse.

>>12170317
>and reply to the post instead.
Which I do (and I will not discuss your identities if you will not endlessly dwell on "Im not the Anon you were talking to.").

>>12170322
That was the other anon.

>>12170320
You can not count them "because we don't test them!" to pump up the official CFR, but also use them to justify lockdowns/masks because "we are full of evil asymptomatics!"

>>12170325
I'm absolutely happy to know that. This revelation will change my life.

>>12166569
>Some part of France and Italy
We stayed and home and didnt go to work for month everywhere in France. isn't that considered a national lockdown ?

>>12165651

too many redditors

>>12165709

high IQ post

>>12170319
>That I'm not interested if you are him, his wife, or his total stranger. Argue about ideas, not about your anonymous identities.
Then why did you attack me instead of what I wrote? You make no sense, Anon.
>So it turns from "somewhat serious cold which is noticeable but does not merit dystopia" into "literally nothing".
If you only care about deaths and not the actual danger, which is multiple organ damage, then yes. Unfortunately, reality collides with your world view again.
>Facts fully support me though.
You wish.

>>12170403
You were allowed to go outside, so not quite. I'd consider it very close to a lockdown though, closer than any other country besides China and its neighbors. The French suffered a lot.

>>12166181

>Long-haulers

>>12166284

>deaths in the millions

500,000 is 1 million?

>>12170484
>Then why did you attack me instead of what I wrote?
I'm attacking entirely
>don't understand the difference between absolute and per capita numbers, make idiotic statements about rurality, call >10M country very small
If you don't think that Sweden is small and rural or mistake absolute numbers with per capita, then continue.
>If you only care about deaths and not the actual danger, which is multiple organ damage
So instead of filmsy and extremely overblown something you want me to be afraid of literal conspiratorial nothing? Wonderful, if coronavirus causes the ORGAN DAMAGE, then you stay the fuck home. Otherwise you have the chance to damage your poor organs or damage someone else, and that's assault, right?
>You wish.
Of course.

>>12170498
isn't it 990k+ ?

>>12170597
>>12170498
Official data is million. Of course you can ask how much of this data is reliable, but still.

>>12170529
Sweden is small and rural, as other Anon explained.
>So instead of filmsy and extremely overblown something you want me to be afraid of literal conspiratorial nothing?
Your terrible attempt at ridiculing the million of preventable deaths and millions of people suffering won't change the facts standing against you. Be an ass about this all you want, your conspiracy about population control is as logical as flat earth.
Btw yes, Gates does want to control population growth. But not in the way you suspect.

>>12166167
>long-term organ damage
which turned out to be a meme apart from 0.000000001% cases of ready to die boomers with preexisting conditions

>>12170905
If you think young people getting strokes are boomers I think you have much worse problems than reading comprehension alone.

>asymptomatic damage
>your lungs, heart, and brain are all asymptomatically fucked
>what do you mean you can't feel it
>you are asymptomatically dead

>>12166399
>Better understanding of the disease, better treatment options,
lol what? what understanding, what treatment, there is no treatment.
why would one single county know something that others dont. this is so stupid.

>>12170929
>there is no treatment.
I siad treatment, not cure. For example we now know not to turn up the pressure in ventilators too much. We know which kinds of medicine work/help and which don't.
The average infected patient is now much younger than before.
Vitamin D plays a crucial role in regulating bradykinin levels. Cytokine storms can be soothed with nicotine.

Do you live under a rock?
>this is so stupid
Yeah, indeed.
>one single county know something that others dont.
Never said that.

>>12171001
>we know
and others dont?

>>12166130

Sweden has 0 deaths most days.

However, liberals got all excited one day when Sweden had a brief uptick where they had a whole 5 deaths from coronavirus. That caused liberals in the US to talk about how Sweden didn't have herd immunity. Liberals then went crickets when Sweden's death count went back down to 0 or 1 the next day.

Liberals in the US are literally rooting for Swedish people to die just so that they can prove their lockdowns in the US are justified. Liberals are sick.

>>12171019
Your question makes no sense.

>>12171030
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
This doesn't look like herd immunity at all. You don't know what you're talking about.

>>12171035

Sweden's deaths are going way down. They literally have no deaths most days. On their "bad" days, they have 2 deaths. On their worst ever day (which liberals in the US celebrated), they had 5 deaths.

Anyway, before coronavirus, I thought liberals were supposed to like Sweden. I also thought that liberals believes in greater income equality. Instead, liberals are asking for more coronavirus shutdowns so that Jeff Bezos and other billionaires can get richer while everybody else gets poorer.

Anyway, it's an article of faith for many that we would have over 2 million coronavirus deaths without the lockdowns.

Nothing will cause them to abandon that idiotic belief.

>>12170629
No, anon, Sweden is moderately sized and highly urbanized (and its size does not matter, unless you are discussing absolute deaths, in which case >>12170003)
>million of preventable deaths
Sure, preventable by them STAYING THE FUCK HOME. It will also prevent ASYMPTOMATIC ASYMPTOTIC BRAIN FART.
>Btw yes, Gates does want to control population growth.
Then he should be jailed. And him sterilizing africans may be bad, but him trying to imprison me and put muzzle on me is no better.

>>12166445
I'm completely broke and about to kill myself before this I was a chemistry PhD student and life was good

>>12170909
If you think people getting hit by meteorites is a joke, you have no heart, so STAY IN THE FUCKING BUNKER.

>>12171035
If you have
-no immunity
-no masks
-no lockdown
-and almost no deaths
then you have basically a common cold, and if you are afraid of common cold - do the capslocked fucking thing.

Everything is turned into a faith politically here. You can't just observe an issue and allow your opinion on it to shift as the circumstances do. It was fair to be cautious about this thing last spring but at some point you need to let the fear and hysteria go and move on with life.

>>12171042
>Sweden's deaths are going way down
Who cares? Anon said they have herd immunity which they clearly don't. Shove your death rate argument up your ass.
>hurr durr libtards
>>>/pol/

>>12171174
What's your point? Now that you got BTFO by the numbers of infected people, you switch the topic to not lose face? Pathetic.

>>12171168
>Sweden is [...] highly urbanized
I'd be willing to argue about Sweden not being small, but this is plain wrong.
>preventable by them STAYING THE FUCK HOME.
Nobody said that. Also, you don't seem to understand what asymptomatic carriers imply.
>Then he should be jailed. And him sterilizing africans may be bad, but him trying to imprison me and put muzzle on me is no better.
lmao you really believe that bullshit? You're too funny. Which part of the world has the lowest population growth? Why is that so? And what does gates try to do?

>>12171173
How is that related to what I said? Can you form coherent sentences?
>>12171184
Almost agree, but I didn't see any hysteria apart from a few fights over toilet paper. It seemed like hysteria because that sells clicks on news articles, but hardly anyone turned into a bunker bitch.
The thing is, if everybody kept distance and wore masks in closed places, there would be no need to be afraid at all. You wouldn't even need to wash your hands permanently as smear infection is highly unlikely.

Funny how euros went through excruciating soul crushing lockdowns but as soon as they reopened they are spiking again. But all of those spikes are without deaths so corona is
a nothing burger.

>>12171042
I think it is hilarious that Sweden is doing better than most Euro cunts except maybe for germany. Countries like Spain or France suffered for nothing. They have reopened and are spiking again.

>>12171435
The reason is that Swedes aren't fucktards who instantly hold 300-people parties as soon as the government allows it.

>>12171452
Yeah, but those are infections do not result in death spikes. So maybe it is ok to party. All the weak died long time ago. The strong can party and help spread herd immunity.

>>12171394
>Anon said they have herd immunity
Care to show that anon?

>>12171417
I am not interested in your anecdote-based conspiracies. If you have reliable statistics showing that a significant percentage of those who got covid get serious organ damage, bring it in. If it's "but one man somewhere got retarded due to covid", then there was a woman who was hit by the meteorite, so everyone should dig in.

ITT: moving the goalpost

>>12171535
Goalpost tugging on a horseshoe!

>>12171394
>Now that you got BTFO by the numbers of infected people
I can't be BTFO by the numbers of infected people because I don't care about the number of infected by the mostly harmless disease. In fact if the number of infected is way larger than it seems, then fatality rate is also not "bad seasonal cold", but "mild seasonal cold". Also >>12171494

>>12171467
>death spikes
So exposing people to a chance of death is okay? Giving them strokes, heart inflammation, dementia, scarred lungs is acceptable, as long as the death rates don't go up? Is that what you're implying?

>>12171598
>I can't be BTFO by the numbers of infected people because I don't care about the number of infected
Then why did you reply to a post about herd immunity?
Seethe harder.

>>12171720
what percentage of those who contracted corona in the last 3 months have any of these conditions? probably close to zero but every such case is widely discussed to make it sound like once you get corona, you will never be the same. thats fear mongering to prevent large parties.

I wasn't wrong I just panicked like everyone else back in March. There was so much bullshit in the media like OMG IT LINGERS IN THE AIR AND STAYS ON SURFACES FOR 2 WEEKS AND CAN GET YA FROM 30 FEET, so a lot of people were wiping their groceries etc. which is totally ridiculous. Since then most people realized it is just bad flu.

>>12171733
>then why did you reply to post
Because I can? Now
>>Anon said they have herd immunity
>Care to show that anon?

>>12171746
>what percentage of those who contracted corona in the last 3 months have any of these conditions?
Can't tell, there's no data since we can't give every 35 million or so people a CT scan. Fact is, there are more than enough of these cases especially in young people to warrant the measures in effect currently. Feel free to search for covid-19 clinics full of patients who can't handle daily life anymore on their own.
I doubt you'd do. I have the feeling you're too scared to find something that goes against your convictions.

>>12171720
If you don't want to be exposed to ASYMPTOMATIC DAMAGE, then STAY THE FUCK HOME. It's your choice, plainly and simply.

>>12171772
>Can't tell, there's no data
Wow.

>>12171766
*Anon implied they had herd immunity and the "liberals" he accused of trying to fabricate that there is no herd immunity were shown to be correct.
Happy now?
>Because I can?
No, because you're seething and need to vent that anger to every post misaligned with your narrative.

>>12171764
I was initially cautious of it too and even bought a mask. But then when various governments decided to put people under house arrest, I saw what was the actual reason for corona hysteria.

>>12171775
>STAY THE FUCK HOME. It's your choice, plainly and simply.
Wrong. Are you retarded?

>>12171780
What's your problem? Anything you didn't understand? Are you implying we shouldn't care about the thousands of preventable victims because... yeah, because of what? What's even your argument here?

>>12171772
Anyone can find anything depending on their "convictions". Same applies to you. Different people treat the same facts differently. Of course you can find that of data. The question is how to interpret hogwash like "full of patients". If there is a medical condition and if you visit a facility that treats that condition then imagine that, you will see a place full of patients with that condition! So?

>>12171784
No, anon implied that if you don't have herd immunity but also have almost no deaths, then the disease is mostly harmless and merits no special reaction, let alone house arrests and muzzles.

Anyone have an idea for a small research project on corona? e.g. simulating effectiveness of social distancing.

>>12171797
I understand that you didn't even follow some official fearmongering, you just pulled some fantasy out of your ass and now wave it as a flag.
>Are you implying we shouldn't care about the thousands of preventable victims because.
No, we shouldn't care about "thousands" of victims if that forces everyone into poverty, muzzles and house arrests. I hate to tell you, but ~60 millions of people die each year in the world. If you don't like, go to the transhumanist thread.

>>12171793
Correct. You are afraid of ASYMPTOTIC ASYMPTOMATIC LUNGFUCK, stay home. You are not, go out. If you are always home, then no non-muzzler will ever get you.

>>12171792
>I saw what was the actual reason for corona hysteria.
Which is?

>>12171835
So you are retarded. People need to buy groceries and work, you know? You're fucking pathetic. What are you so scared of?

>>12171802
>Same applies to you. Different people treat the same facts differently.
True, but there's a difference between interpreting facts in different ways and claiming they're not there.
>So?
So long-term organ damage is neither made up nor only affecting the elder with preexisting conditions, like that Anon claimed.

>>12171827
>you just pulled some fantasy out of your ass and now wave it as a flag.
What fantasy? You're claiming there are house arrests which is downright bullshit.
>if that forces everyone into poverty, muzzles and house arrests.
It doesn't. That's your fantasy.
>I hate to tell you, but ~60 millions of people die each year in the world.
Whataboutism.

>>12172492
You can have your groceries delivered and work from home,

>>12172567
Nope, not possible everywhere. By far. Humans also need to go outside sometimes and have a social life to stay healthy. You probably didn't know that

>>12172500
Nobody is claiming they are not "there".
Both sides agree that there are deaths and complications. The disagreement is about how to react to them. And what percentage of those complications is considered "omg this has never happened before this is the new world all the drastic measures are totally justified" vs "yes, people fall sick all the time and covid adds to that list".

>>12172710
>Nobody is claiming they are not "there".
In public discourse, perhaps. I'm talking to that Sweden-fetish Anon here though, and he denies that a huge number of these cases exist.

>>12171174
>-no immunity
True.

-no masks
True.

>-no lockdown
False. They're not calling it that, but they've essentially self-imposed it. Also, Sweden has a stupidly high rate of single households. 55%. The average in Europe and USA is closer to 35-40%. Primary spread is within household. They've already nuked their old folks, but having few intergenerational households certainly helps to prevent spread to the more vulnerable.

>then you have basically a common cold,
Except that COVID-19 has killed more Swedes than the flu/cold in any single year in at least the last decade.

>>12171030
Nothing you said implies herd immunity. If they're getting infected, they're not immune. Survival is a different factor.

>>12172710
>I don't want to wear masks so fuck you and your disease.

>>12173340
so you admit a bad cold/flu would be worse which no one would've done shit against?

>>12173889
That's not at all what he wrote, retard.
We already vaccinate high-risk individuals against the flu btw. For free. Seems like your entire point revolves around some imaginary construct you don't even understand yourself.

>>12173889
No, he said it's worse than the worst flu in at least the last decade. Worse than anything except the spanish fly, I would say.

>>12173889
It already killed about five as many people as the typical flu season in the US.

>>12173889
It's already killed about five as many people as the typical flu season in the US. There are no signs it's about to end.

>>12173340
>-no masks
>True.
Wonderful, so we can at least conclude that masks are useless if not harmful.
>False. They're not calling it that, but they've essentially self-imposed it.
> They've already nuked their old folks
Other countries simply have no old folks to nuke (but Democrats still somehow managed it).
>Primary spread is within household.
If primary spread is "within household", then fuck off from shops, transport and other public spaces.
>Except that COVID-19 has killed more Swedes than the flu/cold in any single year in at least the last decade.
Which is still a small fraction of total yearly deaths (and Sweden has worse death rates in at least several other years in the previous couple of decades with no covidism implemented).

>>12172492
No. If you think that going out is literally killing people (or assaulting them with "organ damage"), then your social grocery work isn't worth becoming a murderer. And if you think that said above is nonsense, then choose for yourself how much do you want to go out.

>>12172500
>So long-term organ damage is neither made up nor only affecting the elder with preexisting conditions
It is simply and plainly "no data" fantasy.
>>12172812
No, I deny that you have any data about a "huge number of these cases exist.". /sci/entific approach, right?

>>12172517
>What fantasy? You're claiming there are house arrests which is downright bullshit.
Which is a clear fact in many countries (both dictatorial and previously considered "first-world"
>It doesn't. That's your fantasy.
No, that's what you covidist forced on people for many months
>Whataboutism.
Yes, what about the vastly higher number of deaths from all the other causes? Where is the quarantine since... the beginning of times?

>>12173830
That's literally correct.

>>12165651


ayyy
>bio
weapon
>bio
weapon

>>12174178
Hey, look at my heaps of misinformation and conspiracy garbage.

Look, no matter how much garbage and hearsay you throw together we know this was not bioengineered in a lab and we've known since the start. Bioengineering leaves very obvious marks on DNA. Covid-19 has none of them. Stop with the crap.

>>12166477
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard

>>12174200
"Bioengeneering" does not necessarily mean "atoms manipulated via quantum needle". It may be simply "take thousands of rats, keep infecting them until the virus will achieve necessary transmission and fatality rates". Thing possible in WWI (and before).

>>12173949

The 1957-58 flu was actually worse on a per capita basis, and nobody had even heard of that flu until the last few months.

>>12170911
>what do you mean you can't feel it
Anon, people with cirrhosis, advanced kidney disease, heart disease, and alzheimer's often have no symptoms until there's already been a significant loss of organ function. That's the norm with organ damage.

>>12173830
vs
>i am 92 and a heavy smoker and 300lbs overweight and have diabetes from all the coke and junk food so everyone should stay indoors for 6 months to let me live a couple of years longer
clearly these are the two extremes everyone is arguing. but real life situations are not that black and white.

>>12175042
lol how the hell would you not know you have cirrhosis or advance kidney disease or advanced anything. people die of cirrhosis within weeks.

>>12175173
That's incorrect.

>https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cirrhosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20351487
>Cirrhosis often has no signs or symptoms until liver damage is extensive.

>https://www.urologyhealth.org/urologic-conditions/kidney-(renal)-failure
>A patient with CRF may not have any symptoms until kidney function declines to 20% or less.

All of our organs have reserve capacity. By the time you start developing symptoms, you've already lost a significant amount of function. Organ damage does not need to cause pain in the earlier stages, so the argument that you can't be asymptomatic with organ damage is inaccurate. I had walking pneumonia confirmed via x-ray years ago despite never noticing any issues with my lungs, I was only at the doctor for a sinus infection.

>>12174463
>About 70,000 to 116,000 people died in theUnited States,

>>12175042
Masks cause cirrhosis then
>but I wear mask and don't have one!
It's asymptomatic cirrhosis.

>>12175264
Back then US population was almost twice smaller (and noticeably younger)

>>12175286
No anon, not wearing a mask causes cirrhosis. Look at prior to masks all the cases of cirrhosis, you dummy.

>>12173943
>We already vaccinate high-risk individuals against the flu btw.
With flu vaccine effects being worse than flu itself.

>>12175315
Mask-wearers immediately get the asymptomatic cirrhosis, it's clear as day.

Tell me straight /sci/

I know Corona could be dangerous, but I firmly believe that a majority of the "Western Powers"/"Western Nations" have over-reacted to this pandemic. Do you think this over-step was done on purpse for a more nefarious purpose, like social conditioning and engineering?

>>12175307
Now it's at 210,137 and it hasn't stopped yet.

>>12175341
That's already higher than Swedish numbers.

>>12175341
Not to mention per capita flu deaths have been steadily falling since the 1930's, thanks to antibiotics and vaccines, to the point that influenza only kills an average of 5k Americans per year.

>>12175340
You can ask yourself: there are people governing the most important countries in the world. They are the strongest and most powerful people at the pinnacle of every hierarchy. Are they also the most clever people or idiots? If it's the latter, then it may be a honest mistake. But if they are clever, then nefarious purpose is an understatement here.

>>12175260
OK. How is this related to corona virus cases? How long would it take for someone who has recovered to detect hidden organ damage? Like months, years.

>>12175356
Where else do you hide a tree but in a forrest? I can't tell who's an idiot, a useful-idiot, a well-meaning fool/tool or a psychopath in sheeps clothing

>>12175352
>5k
more like 60k according to cdc

There is really no "right" or "wrong".
It is all about your reaction to the data. And the reactions tend to flip between the two extreme steps: from total panic to complete denial. I think it is a coping mechanism in both cases.

>>12175465
That's for pneumonia + flu deaths. They provided them as separate statistics until 2014, then started lumping them together and reporting them all as flu deaths. You can still see the separate numbers here: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/mortality.html

Numbers for 2013 and earlier can be seen here: https://www.lung.org/getmedia/98f088b5-3fd7-4c43-a490-ba8f4747bd4d/pi-trend-report.pdf.pdf

>>12175316
Surely you can post a link for that ridiculous claim?

>>12173963
> If you think that going out is literally killing people (or assaulting them with "organ damage"
I don't and I never said that. Your strawmen constructions are pathetic.

>>12175529
Well, the entire covidist philosophy is based on a strawman after all. Anyway, if me going out or not wearing a muzzle does not kill or damage organs, then I'll continue to do it (and you stay home).

/sci/ are midwit soiboys they are too stupid to know when they are wrong and too ego maniacal to admit it even if they did. I have been here for 5 years literally spoonfeeding them what is going on and who is behind it. If you can't even be spoonfed and understand you are literally a NPC drooler which describes this board perfectly. The faggots here are suffering severe cognitive dissonance because they don't understand the world they thought they lived in was an illusion and the suburban future they had planned isn't gonna happen. That illusion is over the new future isnt pretty and /sci/ are incel cucks that will do anything and everything to avoid acknowledging this fact

https://banned.video/watch?id=5f7257f00e32ef0b8c4f0a78

>>12175517
but isn't there a good reason to lump them together since pneumonia is a common complication caused by flu?

>>12175641
Pneumonia deaths are good to look at, to qualify them all as influenza deaths is not. Any respiratory infection has the risk of leading to pneumonia, especially during the winter and in the elderly. True influenza deaths are probably higher than 5k, but many of those pneumonia deaths likely had nothing to do with influenza and they shouldn't be promoted as such.

>>12175665
Took me a while to find some kind of stats like this:
>Pneumonia can be caused by lots of different types of
microbes, and no single one is responsible for as many as
10% of pneumonia cases.
So there are like 30 different kinds. Some sources claim that flu is largely responsible for bacterial pneumonia but I can see how it can be hard to prove. However that doesn't seem important when talking about corona. Can't we just say that 60k people die from complications caused by various respiratory diseases and leave it at that? So instead of arguing corona vs flu, just replace flu with respiratory diseases.

>>12175740
>Can't we just say that 60k people die from complications caused by various respiratory diseases and leave it at that? So instead of arguing corona vs flu, just replace flu with respiratory diseases.
That's a totally fair way of wording it, and we're at about 200k pneumonia deaths since February, which only started at the tail end of the 2019-2020 cold and flu season, and we've yet to start the 2020-2021 cold and flu season. So we're at about 140k excess pneumonia deaths with traditionally the worst months right around the corner.

>>12173967
>It is simply and plainly "no data" fantasy.
Sources were posted. Go figure. Visit your local hospital and ask people from radiology if you don't trust peer review. You are either delusional or a troll with exceptional stamina.
>I deny that you have any data about a "huge number of these cases exist.". /sci/entific approach, right?
So you did not click on the links?

>>12175603
>Well, the entire covidist philosophy is based on a strawman after all.
Strawman again. Stop replying if your not discussing with me.
>if me going out or not wearing a muzzle does not kill or damage organs
Strawman again. Another try?