/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12144691
Nobody would do that. But to study how a heap subjects to being pushed around is generally unproductive, devoid of abstract power, is somewhat selective against creativity and therefore even more generally speaking ,devoid of interest to a person who has the faculties to excell at say, math, arts or philosophy or something else that genuinely captivates their imagination.

Fun question. Give me one therapeutically sound pharmaceutical drug that was developed by behaivioural science. (it may not be of recreational value)

>>12144709
>Behaviorism
Refuted by Whitehead in one sentence over the dinner table

>>12144691
well, it's a soft science, for one
these are mathematicians and doctors and physicists and engineers. anything that isn't concrete is irrelevant, as far as the majority of these people are concerned.

>>12144716
Please tell me.
My sister is a behaviorist psychologist and she's always talking about behaviorism as its gods word.
Never really cared about arguing with her but shutting her up once might be fun

>>12144691
mostly not science
the few topics that are science are unethical

if you want to study REAL psychology, just look at what faceberg, jewgle, ad companies, con men, salesmen, and politicians are doing -- clear, replicable tricks of habit and confidence.

>>12144716
So what is psychology then? Shamanism? Computational Biology? Literature? Art?
and why is it not completely worthless once people start debating about it while the cosmic stopwatch does its thing?

>>12144744
or is psychology even martial art? But then why does it lack etiquette (dinner table, lol)

>>12144691
There is plenty of legit psychology things that even the biggest haters of psychology would agree with. I probably wouldn’t bring up Freud as non pseudo science Ideas in psychology though.

>>12144753
>legit psychology
>haters of psychology
>Ideas of psychology

apart from the fact that you became increasingly vague about something you feel responsible to elaborate, while the nominalistic object you talked about remained unphased you present a primo example of someones brain on psychologyor any other pseudoscience that just increases physical stress without producing anything worthwhile.

>>12144763
Completely wrong what do you think psychology is? Do you think mental disorders are bogus what out psychology is pseudo science anon?

>>12144763
that just serves as an expression of organismic stress sorry.
But some psychologists know that theyre just reform scientists or lutheranians. It's okay to have some of those. But they dont profit from academia culture. mostly. And i think we should be more pragmatic about our resources.

>>12144765
So psychology is the study of mental disorders?
How do i construct general rules to measure such disorders. I mean in a mathematical sense? And if its just a very simple operation or a very general one, or at least one that ensures me of your capabilities to construct mathematical objects and discuss their properties so we can derive subsequent properties from them just as we discuss certain topics with dictionary language. I will wait. At what level of reality do you plan to observe a mental disorder? And how can you make sure your argument is so sound that i should care about it? Stage 3 syphillis was once considered a purely mental disorder in the sense that it was chosen to be a more empirical property of 'the mind' than just an infectious disease, at least when you cater to the heuristic behind the argument of calling something a mental disease you should at least be able to establish certain boundaries, that in the case of psychology and mental illness should not be based on trivial language. So tell me. What is mental illness?

>>12144738
When I was looking through psychology papers I noticed that alot of them were focused on the applications towards advertising.

Things like if a consumer is not conformist then they respond negatively to advertising
>For example, attempts to encourage conforming behavior, such as in advertising appeal promoting a brand on the basis that its purchase makes one part of the crowd, may have the opposite, unintended influence on some consumers.
Its gross how the papers go into detail. Titles of this shit
>Perceived situational appropriateness for foods and beverages: consumer segmentation and relationship with stated liking
>Political Ideology and Brand Attachment
>You can’t have that! A study of reactance effects & children’s consumer behavior
Basically everybody being cut up into little groups and being studied on how to be targeted for what have you.

>>12144779
Do you also think biology is not science because you can construct formulas to describe a species?

>>12144765
I dont really care what psychology is. But i think a competent mathematician or a competent poet just becomes a more competent psychologist as a side effect by default. To generalize that side effect into a dubious suprematist program is stupid and worthless.

>>12144781
Its almost as if every pot had its kettle or something. or as the germans used to say jedem das seine

>>12144779
In recent times the American Psychological Association said toxic masculinity is a mental illness. Clearly we can't leave the definition to the "experts".
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKGa6g8Kk5g

Problems with psychology.
>Can't replicate many experiments
And
>The constant addition of new and ridiculous mental illnesses

I almost feel this board would be better at psychology than psychologists because at least its actually more or less self critical.

>>12144816
>(((association)))
I don't care what field you're in, avoid these parasites like the plague

>>12144691
Not saying psychology isn't useful in extreme cases. But psychiatrists and pharma companies are largely opportunistic grifters trying to make a buck by getting their patients dependent on unnecessary drugs and therapy.

>>12144784
You can describe formulas of how to built equipment to make observations how to compare general properties of geometric shapes and pictures with, of how to order dictionaries of how to measure the energy output of a ramjet missiles propulsion emission against the energy convertion of the propulsion system of a procaryotic cell.
These instruments predictive power diminishes by no mean when the picture book you study has an infinite amound of pictures in it. Is it therefore demeaning to call biology a study of picture books? no not really. and because these abstractions are as physically real present as the mind could ever be while recursing to it they do not diminish the degrees of freedom of the human mind but enrich them by choice. Biology is precisely a rich science because it is mainly a picture science of comparison and of dictionnaries. A very good observer with a sharehold of a huge part of reality could probably establish thousands of observations from studying a person for 30seconds, but the knowledge required would be outwards of arms reach of anyone who would see them as part of some sort of generality. similarily. How much can you study of an organism in your lifetime when for the most interesting properties your observational time would not suffice to produce interesting experiments, at least if the organisms youre working with are not VERY small VERY similar or idk very dissimilar by choice. You cant teach any fish how to grow speech and to talk to you in a lifetime.

>>12144781
>Things like if a consumer is not conformist then they respond negatively to advertising
No fucking shit. finally.
Now hopefully they'll fuck off, stop trying, and let the paypigs do the work

>>12144838
similarily, you still have a thread of classical philosophy running through every worth while science. The establishment of set theory probably was the biggest philosophical gelehrtenstreit in the history of mankind.
But most papers on the behaivioural properties of schizophrenic patients for example just read alot like trying to have a fish grow a spine or something. To see how certain anatomical or organic structures express over their life circle, or as a shared property between species and how we can transgress and inherit these procedures in relation to our own observational time is very prone to failure. without working by analogy biology wouldve never happened, therefore alot of analogy would have to be steadfast already when it came about. Its threatening how psychology on the other hand joins the expressiveness of the person together with the behaiviour of the organism and doesnt even factor in the analogous nature of it. Brain science could b created from one brain. Biology is a science because we already implied alot about it with its maturity as a science, ethically. But you cant derive any properties about a word as dubious as 'the mind' from it. No less than you can by watching 'the mind' in an mri or a microscope.

>>12144691
Street Magic
Why are so many people here against it? You can call it pseudo but how do you explain Blaine and Angel who applied it successfully on a large scale?

>>12144998
Why are you pretending they didn't influence society?

>>12145027
What do you mean?
I am saying street magic has had a lot of influence on society and culture.

>>12145035
Not compared to the influence of a single Bernays book.

>>12145271
The lets go ask 100 random people if they have read that book versus seen a David Blaine special and see who has more apparent influence today.

>>12145271
nothing compared to euklids elements. nothing compared to anything. Youre fucking retarded. I hate people like you.

>>12145288
That isn't influence. His books are still used in marketting and by news media today. The co-founder of Netflix is related to Bernay and uses the same techniques.

>>12144691
>succesfully
Freud never cured a patient.
If by succesfully you mean the demonstrated effect of commercials on purchase behaviour, then I certainly disagree this effect is a succes.

>>12145307
The success in this case is them being able to steer it.

>>12145302
David Copperfield's material is still used in marketing and media Today.
The founder of Fashion Café is related to Copperfield and uses similar techniques.

>>12145302
>the same techniques
>techniques
Overromanticising conditioning of people to reduce them to even more conditioning.

>The co-founder of Netflix is related to Bernay and uses the same techniques.

>The co-founder of Netflix
What an interesting PR move to make you think that being able to use PR signifies a smart individual
Not considering that a corporate boob might just be the most boring idiot on the planet. . .

>>12144737
Can I fugg her?

>>12145302
Also. Even if he could shoot invisible energy beams from his head that he uses to mind control people, how would that be any more impressive than if he just coerced them by physical force?

>>12145344
I wouldn't say impressive, finding a new way to do it without the requirement of physical force would be exactly why it would be pressive though.

>>12144691
4chan is filled to the brim with haters and edgy teenagers
Dont waste time trying to understand this place and also dont take the consensus on 4chan as a given - keep in mind this place attracts certain kind of people so of course some consensuses will be skewed

I deny Freud, I deny Jung, I accept Jesus christ

>>12144691
Psychology is pseudoscience and Freud was a pedophile.

>>12144691
I can successfully make a website where people purchase a subscription to be told what their daily fortune and warnings are. It will be nothing more than astrology and it could be a successful endeavor. Regardless of its success, it is not science.

>>12144691
>Physics
I have a hypothesis about the way that atoms move. How do I test it? I put atoms under various conditions and see if they move in the way that I expect
>Psychology
I have a theory about how people behave. How do I test it? I'll give people questionnaire where they rate how they feel on a 1 to 5 scale.

I feel like reductionism is not a good approach to human nature.

>>12144691
>Freud and Bernays who applied it successfully on a large scale
Excuse me?!

Nerds can't into abstract concepts

>>12144709
you like those big words don't you

Blame ethics codes for by allowing psychology to flourish. Same goes for other sciences as well

>>12146160
nonsense
All your emotions are just chemicals

>>12144744
>So what is psychology then?
Neurobiochemical gradients.

>>12144691
It's hard to non apply tautology, not to apply it.

>>12148468
Who says theyre big?

>>12148662
non-expression

>>12144691
having a friend > psychology
psychiatry > psychology
a friend is free
or in the worse case you could go to a bar if you have no friend

>>12144781
We are all test subjects in experiments that we never consented to. That's what market research has become.

>>12144691
because 4chan is a massive honeypot and ((they)) don't want you to know

>>12149928
Very funny

>>12149856
having a friend >>>/reddit/
Psychiatry < Murder

Psychology is a pandoras box.
Most people here i think hate on psychology mainly becuase of how insufferable the pop psychology bullshit is.
Its like new hot trends to become the person you always wanted.
Pop psychology is horrible becuase it makes clickbait headlines based off of harvard undergraduate psych experiments that use surveys and shit. Which are then pooped out to the masses and the masses get all enraputed by "what it all means" becuase they dont have the skill to prpperly evaulte the experiment or the data.
The dangerous thing is that these fads catch on quick through brainwashed social workers and hr managers that an undergraduate psych presentation will end up an hr and maybe even state policy in a matter of months.

Like back in the day all the mystery schools had something important to say.
Alk the fucking alchemists, and gnostics, amd shamans, amd monks, amd viziers, all knew about ALL the school of psychology even before weber popped out his mommys pussy.
But these were mystery schools where there whee strict vows,high secrecy, and initian rites,
statecraft and mind and self craft were highly sought after, and tools that if wielded dangerously could seriously fuck up the world.
With freud, and skinner, and all the others you took whats was usually only privvy to priests, statesmen, and leaders was npw known to the masses.
Tools easily understood, essentially intuitive, that anyone, no matter how nieve and reckless could wield them.

psychology is not without merit or usefullness, but laypeople tend to put it on a pedestal when it really doesn’t deserve it. Once you learn more about psych the «the more you know, the less» meme really kicks in. If you are interested in psychology I would recommend doing a masters in neuroscience, get good at statistics and programming ala MATLAB
>t. psych major

>>12144691
Freud is the reason why we have psychology in the field
but it's because everyone else thought that there must be a better way of going about things
so they went out to find it

Psych is important. If anything, we need more and more people need to see them.

>>12144691
psychology is real, but as an institution it doesn't have the proper scientific rigor. Essentially the problem isn't with the notion of psychology, but with psychologists.
Psychology is also a very young science, so there isn't a lot for them to work off of.

>>12144691
Because it puts you in group you don't belong to and makes you conform.