/sci/ - Science & Math

First for anonymous russian space qt

This is now a Pocкocмoc thread, you have been ANNEXED!

starship'll be more dangerous than shuttle, prove me wrong

>>12113850
Elon and his Starship have the clear favor and blessing of God or meme magic or whatever supernatural force you care to attribute it to. The Shuttle didn't have that.
I unironically think that he's the result of some kind of intervention intended to save humanity from itself.

>>12113850
No srbs, massive wings, and it sits on top. So it's already safer than the shittle

>>12113805
Based

>>12113850
I’m with you. Regardless of how much SpaceX wants to make rockets as reliable as airliners, the lack of any way to recover the passengers after some sort of massive systems failure on launch is concerning. At least the shuttle could theoretically get into a stable glide for the crew to bail (assuming that whatever catastrophe caused the abort miraculously left the orbiter intact).

It’s quite likely I’m just paranoid, but I sincerely hope they manage to install an LES of some sort on the first generation of passenger vehicles.

>>12113883
All NASA has to do is require a LES for Starship to be human rated. Elon is maybe too optimistic about his futuristic spaceship... not that being optimistic is a bad thing but with human beings it’s better to err on the side of caution.

>>12113873
It is Ahura Mazda the conscience of the universe trying to avoid mass suicide on Earth by blackpilled people.

>>12113898
Starship is the LES.

Starships only really flaw is probably gonna be getting the hoverslams to be reliable enough to land on a launchpad every time
What is starship supposed to do if they need to ditch orbit ASAP, or abort a transfer into orbit over the Atlantic, can it land at an airport?

>>12113924
>be me
>sn8
>i'm a pioneer
>i'm an explorer
>i stick the bellyflop landing first try
>screencap this

>>12113898
the first spacex rocket explosion with humans onboard is going to ground spacex ambitions. like it or not,we live in the time of regulators and public opinion.
That suicide landing that starship wants to do is going to fail a couple of times and end in tragedy unless they just refuel in orbit so they wont have to take such a risky landing vector.

>>12113924
the probablility of failure is higher with starship just because of insane landing profile.

>>12113935
not if we move hq and production to mars first, no gooberment baby!

>>12113935
i also think public opinion is gonna be a problem. But i guess they will make sure that the astronaut and their close family understand the risk and the consequences beforehand. they wont go in there unaware

Mommy Shotwell isn't a fool. SpaceX will land cargo and tanker ships dozens of times before manned flight

>>12113898
no nasa astronauts then it'll be the faa doing the regulation.

>>12113935
Sign legal wavers letting the goobernment and astronauts know they're probably doing something dangerous

>>12113883
Just put crumple zones in.

>>12113935
Spacex is probably better equipped to suffer a disaster and move on then NASA is. They can investigate, fix the problem, and move on, instead of being defunded and having massive organizational shuffling around.

>>12113955
no, a million times

>>12113898
I'm fully in support of controlling overpopulation by volunteering random people as rocket test pilots and passengers.

littoral SPACE combat ships whens?

>>12113924
just jump out nigga lmao

>>12113991
nature is healing, we are the virus

VENUSIAN
BALLOON
ORIGAMI

>>12113985
spaceX is not as dependent as nasa from public opinion, as spaceX isn't really funded by government money. They wont be shut down after a disaster like nasa would, they are not as accountable to the public.

WIth nasa basically being space exploration, we got used to a big dependency to public opinion.

what i fear is that people got used to having so much power over space program, and that at the slighest scandal they will go down on spaceX just like nasa even if spaceX dont own a dime to them.

Anyway, how much is the government giving to spaceX currently ?

https://youtu.be/6zlEh2b0FV8

>>12114028
AEROSTAT HABITAT

>>12114046
>tell me when I'm gonna hit my head
>BONK

>>12114058
you're going to hit your head

>>12114044
SpaceX is on NASA life support. Reusable rockets? It'll never work. Face it, it's just too hard, didn't you watch the news? Also we should be spending the money on climate change. SpaceX waste tax dollars. Besides you can't go to Mars. Haven't you heard of a little thing called radiation? Plus no air. Can't breath on Mars, simpletons. All the money you spend on space could go to underpriveledged childen instead or fund healthcare for all. When Biden cancels SpaceX and NASA, you'll all see and wish we did it sooner. Apollo was a waste too, and I don't care that white priveledge good ol boys walked on the moon. That's colonialism.

>>12113902
is interesting that zoroastrians thought of fire as the representation of a sort of "cosmic energy" latter the legends say that 3 zoroastrian priest or "magi" followed a start that appeared in the sky because they belived something important was goin to happen in the west (apparently within zoroastrianism there were legends that a "being of love" will come...) and so christianity was born now using the more precise greek concept of "logos" instead of fire

the philological and symbological explanation for this inter-relationship is that zoroastrians needed the sophistication of the greeks to fully express the concept.
almost all the old-testament comes from mesopotamia, the assyrian empire (ancient sumeria) conquered the region of canaan(israel), Abraham is also from Ur one of the main cities of sumer

[Agustine: The greek “logos”, in latin signifies both Reason and Word. here is better to interpret it "Word" as it represent not only the Father but also the creation of things, "Word" is operative power whereas Reason, though nothing it can make (on its own), is rightly called Reason.]

>>12114004
This but unironically

https://earthsky.org/space/life-on-venus-astrobiology-phosphine-biosignature
oh shit bros someone leaked it and they released early
V E N U S

>>12114088
Lens cap based lifeforms?

>>12114088
>The newpeer-reviewedresearch paper waspublishedinNature Astronomytoday, September 14, 2020
NICE FIND ANON

>>12114088
UNLISTED VIDEO
https://youtu.be/dCXF8FUux74

>>12113985
you still dont understand the power of regulators do you? remember starship wants to put 50 to 100 people in those rockets. Eventually there will be a launch were children of very wealth people are on it
and they will demand answers when those rockets blow up and put pressure on regulators.

>>12114097
VENUSIAN BALLOON PROBE VENUSIAN BALLOON PROBE VENUSIAN BALLOON PROBE

welp I guess both venus missions are getting chosen for discovery 15 and 16
rip triton and io

>>12114113
>>12114088
It's a race against time, the first discovery of extraterrestrial life. Will it the Venus Balloon, or Mars 2020? Hell, coulda been Viking even

>>12114088
ok they keep saying phosphine isn't naturally produced on rocky planets (it is known to be produced on gas giants through known processes). What's to say Venus' thick atmosphere mimics the same phosphine condusive conditions on gas giants? Wish I could read the paper, but it's not yet public

So where did phosphates come from in the venereal attmosphere?

>>12114088
>phosphine is produced by microbes that don’t need oxygen
BROS

>>12114127
Either chemical processes we don't know of or microbial life.

>>12114127
I mean they are necessary to make phosphine?

>>12114124
I'm not sure what process creates phosphine in gas giants, but it is supplied from quite deep in the atmosphere so most likely it requires higher pressures than venus can produce

>>12114127
volcanic eruptions and space probably

Chances that the soviets introduced bacteria into venus on the venera the balloon probes?

>>12114141
Pretty flipping close to zero.

>>12114124
>>12114135
sci-hub tw/10.1086/506245
sci-hub tw/10.1089/ast.2018.1954
might have something about it in one of these, haven't finished reading them yet

>>12114141
>>12114142
even if this were true, we could look at it's biochemistry to determine if it has DNA and Earth relatives

>>12114141
pretty much none, since venus cloud droplets are just straight up sulfuric acid with a small amount of water in them that would require significantly different biochemistry to survive in them

Phosphine is not known to be created in volcanoes on Earth, space is unlikely. Probably some unknown abiotic process, but we'll have to wait till Peter sends that balloon

>>12114204
that was talking about phosphorus sources to be turned into phosphine, not phosphine itself

>>12114210
oh yeah, phosphates are common. fun fact tho, phosphorus is the least abundant element cosmically relative to its presence in biology

>>12114070
I thought you were being serious at first.

>>12114113
i dont care about triton yet but i really wanna see a dedicated io mission before the mid 2030s

>>12114113
One of the missions would have to be reworked completely for new planetary protection measures, added new instruments to the second.

>>12114088
Honestly after reading various papers on phosphine production on Earth, I think it's much more likely abiotic, though I'd love to be wrong

HIGH ALTITUDE SRB POWERED VENUSIAN SAMPLE RETURN MISSIONS

>>12114306
why dont we just lower a bucket on a really long rope from orbit???

>>12114310
What if we took a really long stick and pushed a grasper/bucket into the things we want samples of?

>>12114303
yup sulphuric acid corrosion of iron filings can liberate phosphine, and can explain why there's high phosphine occurance in strong acidic conditions (landfills, anaerobic fermentation gas). while microbes may be the dominant source of phosphines on earth, it's not a big leap to attribute an abiotic process on venus

>>12114070
imagine ever meeting someone who thinks like this

>>12114331
You are thinking in short terms. All the surface iron would already be reacted.

>>12114097
it's obviously abiotic
this is arsenic based life all over again

>>12114345
it's just one known example. we don't actually know that phosphine is predominantly created by microbes on earth. there's not enough research on abiotic sources to say definitively

>>12114352
the article is quite misleading, and leads one to believe phosphine is only ever created by life. if you read carefully there's plently of asterisks, weasel words, and outright half truths.

>>12114372
Dude, its not some guess of the undergraduate. They already looked at the posible sources of this gas, and it was suggested even before as one of the more valuable biosignatures
https://sci-hub.st/10.1089/ast.2018.1954

>>12114088
They removed the article!

https://archive.is/L7MT1

>>12114379
there's phosphine in the atmospheres of all the gas giants, brown dwarfs, and small dwarf stars. don't fall for the hype, it's not life until it's life

>>12114385
Kek how did they know people found it

>>12113830
Ayyy
https://twitter.com/MikhailKondra13/status/1303396785277358081?s=20

>>12114395
twitter found out about the article like half an hour ago lmao

>>12114378
>>12114389
There it happens in pressures and temperatures not found in terrestrial planets

>>12114398
i'm waiting to read the new paper before i get too excited

>>12113873
>>12113883
He is clearly cheating someway

Hope Venus race starts and USA, Europe, Russia, China, Japan, India, Korea all send spacecrafts there in less than 10 years.

>>12114407
lmao musk is dabbing on us all

>>12114070
I wish you didn't make such a shit argument.
Mars will never be colonized with mere rocket-truck, you'll have human on Mars to satisfy someone hubris but that's all. It would be spending more money than needed to do the same science.

As much as I hate Elon, SpaceX is profitable as far as simple orbital mission goes. We could use a reusable Heavy launcher but we don't actually need anything rated for Mars. Even the moon will be a nice bonus.

We should be investing in Space dock to assemble spaceship capable of more mission with less constrain.

>>12113883
make the cabin detach and put a parachute on it lmao what's so hard about that

There's no life on Venus, no life period. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. It's plain right there in the Bible. You atheist fools want to believe all kinds of fanciful things that are against GOD. Desperate and sad. Earth is our Lord's sole vessel of life in the cosmos. It is the holy dominion.

>>12114454
BASED

>>12114454
Nowhere in the bible does it imply there cannot be life on other planets. Anyways, this is why Mormons, Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, etc etc will be the ones colonizing space, not pr*testants

>>12114454
and only he will bless AMERICAN made rockets built by AMERICAN contactors in AMERICA

>>12113873
Ooooor... he's created a company that avoids the step where you jump through hoops of securing budget from a senate that's only concern is to make the most evil and deranged decisions possible over the last few decades.

>>12114454
Ok, I'm thinkin based

So life on Venus is going to trigger christcucks like hell

>>12114482
and being 100% on life-support from companies ran by vampires.

>>12114495
how?
where do atheists get this idea that believers are opposed to the idea of life being on other planets?

>>12114500
God created man in his image or something like that

>>12114500
Nowhere in Bible it says there are other planets with life, Giordano Bruno was heretic because he said otherwise.

>>12114500
1) Life on other world is not in the bible
2) Venus associated with Lucifer, the morning star, meaning shizos will go crazy.

>>12114503
>>12114506
>>12114508

the bible also didnt talk about chocolate i dont see your point.
belief in life on other planets is not an anti-christian position, the vast majority of christians dont see this an issue

>>12114514
Chocolate is fake though. You didn't know? It is devils trick to make you forget about praying.

>>12114482
As shitty as the American government is, you are still going to need the same budget security since you can't make money colonizing Mars.
Even spamming perishable microsat in low orbit isn't a guaranteed income forever.

>>12113991

Astronauts are the opposite of 'random' people, they are creme of the crop

>>12114514
doesn't matter if it's a good argument. christians who believe in aliens are hellbound, cope more, not based

>>12114514
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/alien-life/

>>12114517
>Even spamming perishable microsat in low orbit isn't a guaranteed income forever.
I'm sure holding the monopoly in dumping satellites into leo for cheap is gonna stay being pretty lucrative for a foreseeable amount of time.

>>12114530
yes i too i can do iamright.com

>>12114500
>>12114514
It doesn't matter if the vast majority are hypocrite or aren't as willing to invent meaning from lines of old translated fiction. Other will and they represent their religion more than the others, especially the majority who only call themselves religious out of family pressure.

I love spaceflight

>>12114590

>>12114530
>https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/alien-life/
at least that website believes space is real

>>12114503
>>12114514

the concept made in his image doesn't necessarely mean antropomorphism, the concept comes from john 1.1 and is because God is identified as a the primordial logos this means the primordial logic that created the universe, so humans also have logos meaning we have the capacity for logic and to create

this view means that conciousness/logos is a characteristic of the universe itself and is not an emergent characteristics, is intrinsic to the universe this doesn't necessarely mean that a rock can think but that conciousness is chararcteristic of the universe kinda like my brain is a characteristic of me but my fingers do not think, that kind of deal.

on the other hand the concept of the nephilim from genesis 6 does have a double meaning more anthropomorphic (the "giants", the "men of renown" matting with the daugthers of men) this view is still puzzling because it basically implies extraterrestial beings creating the human race, this account comes from ancient sumer the oldest known civilization none the less...and even more puzzling is that this flood story is basically a retaling of the atlantis tale to the point that the atlanteans/atlas are the "giants" the "men of renown"

generally this giants are considered angels
Noah is named Utnapishtim in the sumerian epic poem of gilgamesh https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utnapishtim

>>12114618
How do you know have you ever been there?

If there is life out there that's even more reason to focus on fixing Earth first before wasting money on vanity space projects

>>12113924
>>12113935
They'll have plenty of launches and landings before going manned. What are the main reasons for F9 landing failures? Too hot of a mission profile for the amount of fuel remaining, and non-redundant grid fin control, which they have since fixed. And the grid fin failure still resulted in a survivable water landing.
They also have multiple redundant engines on the way down. The only thing that can keep all of them from working is lack of fuel.
>>12113850
>>12113874
And what are the main reasons for Shuttle failures? SRB failure, yeah fuck SRBs and fuck hydrolox first sages, and broken fragile heat shielding tiles, lol tiles, lol aluminum frame.
>>12113883
>At least the shuttle could theoretically get into a stable glide for the crew to bail
It "glides" like a rock, and certainly not stable if it has to detach at 72 seconds. And then it's too low to bail. And you could do fuck-all if there was a pad problem. SS is literally more survivable than Shuttle from the start.
>>12113898
>>12114440
>LES for Starship
Yes, let's add all this weight that we have to carry around like a millstone around the neck because some assholes decided A) we've launched in the cold before, GO! and B) it's super important that we don't use CFC in the foam, and let's not even look at the tiles with a camera or even tell crew there might be a problem. Orange tank bad.
>>12113993
What does littoral mean in terms of space? I guess LEO would be the "shoreline" of space.

>>12114665
Why is this line only used for space travel, something that is such an obvious investment in the next step of humanity. More money is spent on cosmetics annually than space,

>>12114654
i read the article and it claimed that extrasolar planets exist and that microbes and other non-intelligent life could exist on other planets, but that there is no other intelligent life in the universe

>>12114004
Not at the speeds you would be going. Fighter planes eject by SHOOTING you out, and UPWARD as well. You ain't just climbing out the door, even a little bit of atmosphere would yoink you right into the wing.

>>12114687
Because the cosmetics industry fulfills a need, else it wouldn't exist. Space exploration while heavily subsidized by taxes on the other hand only serves a tiny technocrat elite and fossil fuel interests who use it to justify the status quo. We already have solar cells and satellites, there's no excuse to sit by while Earth turns into Venus.

>>12114709
4/10 i began to seriously reply

>>12114681
>SS is literally more survivable than Shuttle from the start.
if there is any problem, you die. the shuttle at least had abort modes. the only case were you could actually survive a SS desaster would be failure of superheavy and only of the starship could abort away on its own fast enough.

>>12114720
The solar system will still be there in 200 years. Discretionary government spending isn't endless, funding space exploration means less funding elsewhere.

>>12114728
>the shuttle at least had abort modes
Just lighting the engines and launching off of the first stage is more abort modes than Shuttle had. It had zero capability for pad abort.

If the USA has retrieved crash alien spacecraft, why haven't we used them for space exploration yet?

>>12114734
>>12114709
Perfect illustration of the difference between libertarian and libertine modes of thinking: this kind of person doesn't argue against government spending in general - they just whine that the government isn't spending money on them.

>>12114747
still if there is any problems with the startship engines everyone is dead. since it does a suicide burn, there isnt even enough time to switch to different engines if there is a failure in one.
dont get me wrong, starship will be a great vehicle, but it should absolutely have an abort system and i hope Nasa will require one.

>>12114787
>since it does a suicide burn
It doesn't

>>12114113
good
honestly my picks were davinci and trident, but as long as we get more venus exploration I'll be happy

>>12114755
they couldn't get it on cost-plus

>>12114755
that doesn't sound like it would make a lot of jobs, sonny.

>>12114454
youre the defund nasa guy

>>12114070
Its like reading a combination of Thunderf00t's tirades and my uncle's ramblings

>>12114482
You mean congress, not the Senate, there are funding and budget committees in the senate or including senators, but congress is the body of the US government that actually handles the money.
And yes, the congressional majority right now is abso-fucking-lutely completely batshit insane.

When do you think humanity will encounter their first proper space horror occurrence?
And what's it gonna be like?

>>12114855
my bad, I was just waking up and my brain in startup.

>https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dUWrpm80WHsJ:https://earthsky.org/%3Fp%3D343883+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
article that is supposed to be published tomorrow talking about the supposed finding of microbial life in the atmosphere of Venus

>>12114834
It would make tons of jobs as we could go into space and do viable economic activities..

>>12114868
haha, this poster said the wrong thing haha!

>>12114893
you sound insane, just stop talking commie scum. I bet next you're gonna say... the "d" word.

If Starship does a launch for say $5mil/100tons, would orbital solar power actually be feasible? assuming it could fit stacks of 400w solar panels, at 22kg each, and 2m x 1m x 4cm size

>>12114905
>he thinks such low quality bait will elicit a strong emotional response in me.

>>12114906
I don't think we have the technology for transferring energy efficiently through the atmosphere

>>12114910
not really no

>>12114911
does it have to be efficient though? if you place the panels in a way so that they are in almost 24h sunlight, it wouldn't really matter. They'd just have to make enough power to repay the system and launch costs within a few years, then free money

>>12114385
>got out of bed quick to save the video
It is gone.

>>12114906
Imagine beaming power down to a warzone from space or recharge a ship stuck in ocean or special beam cannon from space.

>>12114951
clear an area, airdrop tesla powerpacks, unfolding microwave power receiver, tents and some extra folding solar panels, instant military base

>>12114396
is this that buran that was sitting alone in a hangar? Did they finally decide to demolish the place and just trash the thing?

>>12114906
Idk if ot makes that much sense. The loss is very large but I don't recall how much. The advantage is 100% availability without batteries.
I don't think batteries are expensive enough to make ot worth it.

>>12114728
No different from conventional capsules after the LES is jettisoned.
Any sort of LES would necessarily massively decrease the passenger count, killing the economies of scale necessary for the thing to be viable.
The real solution is to engineer it to have failure rates that approach the aviation regime.

>>12114984

Yes, that was the Buran who got crushed by the collapsing roof of the warehouse it got stored in. Honestly, it was about time they cleaned up that place.

>>12113850
Burden of proof is yours. You can’t meet it, so you lose. GG

>>12114541
Anon I went to catholic school and in both biology and geology class my teachers talked about how space is larger than you could ever imagine and you’d have to be a fool to not believe alien life is out there. My biology professor was a deacon who was the most religious man i have ever met, and i’m pretty sure my geology teacher was a jew lol

>>12115035
seems like a lot of militant atheists LOVE to tell religious people that they believe this or that to discredit them..

>>12113850
A fully reusable rocket will, by design, be safer than any rocket in history. Because it can be reused, that means it can technically be tested as many times as they can afford to do so. And anytime they launch it without humans on board that is essentially a test.

>>12115030
oh it was just the smashed one, not the mostly complete looking one?

>>12115048
Yeah idk what the big deal is. I mean there is dumb shit out there like that creationist ark museum and whatnot. But from my own experience the catholic church has been very peo science. My teacher had a PhD and we did this cool lab where we took this weird archea strain and multiplied them out. We then selectively added harsher and harsher things to the environment and watched as some died out and the more resistant ones lived. A week later we ran the DNA and saw that we had created a new strain out of natural selection. We even got to name the strain and upload it to some data base. I think we named it thomasium aquinisium or something to do with st thomas aquinas

>>12114787
>suicide burn
Yeah, no, that's because F9 engines can't throttle low enough to hover when the stage is almost empty of fuel. It's like an empty soda can.
And there's six engines to work with, even needing two or three there's still 100% or better redundancy. Literally the only thing that isn't redundant is the fuel. I'm sure that even the guidance system will be 3-way redundant.

>>12115108
Falcon 9 has 1 to 10 landing failure.

So if Life is found on Venus, Europa, Enceladus, etc, then that raises the question of “if life is so common, how come we don’t see more intelligent life?”

>>12115132
It depends if life in our solar system (if it is confirmed) turns out to be related to life on Earth or not. If they independently evolved that doesn't bode well for humans

>>12115132
Yes. It would be especially interesting if we found life in our solar system that wasn't DNA-based, or at least had way different metabolic pathways (that way we would know for sure it wasn't just earth life contamination that we measured).

However, even if we found life in our own solar system, I don't think it would add anything to the popsci fermi paradox argument. Space is fucking vast. Our own galaxy alone is huge. Even if there were other intelligent civilizations in our own galactic neighborhood I doubt we could see them zipping around the stars.

>>12114864
Furries from outerspace.

>>12115140
Yeah and I just though bout my question >>12115132 and realized that all of those other worlds are either locked under ice (or in the air for Venus). Just because life shows up doesn’t mean it can build technology and the like. There’s probably millions of civilizations that lived and died without ever gaining true technology. That sounds PopSci though

>>12115132
the answer is time probably. life has been on Earth for 4.5 billion years, and since it's the only case we have that means the average time it takes for the earliest form of life to get to where we are now is 4.5 billion years. And beyond where we are now you also have to evolve to the point where you can travel in space/communicate. It very well may be that intelligent life is somewhat common, but perhaps we are the most advanced species in our neck of the galaxy.

>>12115144
If squids hadn't picked such a shit biome to occupy maybe they could figure out manipulation of their surroundings like the cool apes.

>>12115144
No no what you said is correct. More likely than not there is probably a gajillion planets near us with little microbial life forms. But to make the jump to advanced civilization is probably hard. Even with plentiful energy sources like starlight and food and minerals, something on Mars (for example) will of course evolve over time but might not ever develop sentience if it can only live in rocks. I mean imagine if Earth was an ocean world with no continents. The smartest thing to evolve would probably something akin to dolphins. You'd never get apes that could build computers and launch itself to other planets using chemical rockets.

>>12115112
>1 to 10 landing failure.
I don't understand what those words mean. You're an ESL, aren't you?
Except for the one grid fins failure, they know ahead of time when it's a marginal trajectory and, such as GTO launches and some Starlink launches. The center cores of F9 have been especially troublesome.
But they won't be trying such fuel-wasting trajectories with SS/SSH, and certainly not with manned SS re-entry. SS is not F9, and you can't say that SS will have problems because F9 does.

>>12113924
As long as there's flat land, they can surely program it to land there. That's how they're going to land on Mars too.

What does SNx actually stand for?

>>12115136
>>12115152
Lmao I hope you are the same anon. You are thinking on the same wavelength as me right now

>>12115154
BROS HURRY HE IS TRYING TO LEAVE HIS HOME PLANET

>>12115154
I’ve always wondered about a word where microbial life could become sentient. Kind of like a slime mold is made of billions of individual amoebas acting in unison, why can’t they share their input with each other too? Imagine a sentient being living in the skies of Venus. Imagine a whole civilization that builds their beliefs and society in this world. It’s pretty cool.

>>12115035
The Quran asserts that creatures live amongst the Heavens

>>12115160
Serial number

>>12115160
Series Number x, basically an alternative to Mark X

>>12115173
Or better yet, if there were a gaseous cloud in space that was thick enough, and around for long enough, could there TECHNICALLY be enough chemical reactions to create life in space without a planet? I say it's entirely possible. Imagine microbes formed in a chemical soup nebula

Also are y'all prepared to take the silicon life pill? It is technically possible for rocks to be alive. (Albeit it's a lot harder than carbon based life, if it's possible at all). But the universe is huge and this leads to almost infinite possibilities of "well it COULD happen SOMEWHERE". I'd bang a rock if I found one

>>12115182
Based geology anon will have a child with a rock. Show her your room on starship

>>12115154
>dolphins
Dolphins are mammals. Octopus are a better example.

>>12115182
Life is incredibly interesting. I’m in OrganicChem right now at Uni and it’s amazing how some huge molecules are able to replicate themselves, take in “nutrients”, etc.

RNA is a pretty cool thing because a ribosome+RNA+Collection mechanism can form a super simple life form of sorts. Lipid bilateral are my favorite structure ever and believe it or not a difference in pH actually can cause them to become motile even.

>>12115182
Some carbon-based life lives inside of rocks and metabolizes them extremely slowly

>>12115182
You are describining Boltzmann brain

>>12115173
Reminds me of Father from the Ellimist Chronicles, part of the Animorph series of YA books.
>single lifeform sponge spreads over entire crust of ocean world, becoming the ocean bed
>parasitizes anything that crash-lands, hijacks their biology and keeps them 'alive' with brain-tentacle
>does this enough times over enough years that ocean floor fills with tethered bodies of multiple unlucky aliens
>combined hijacked brainpower of captured prey forms a sentience, sponge/planet is now 'alive'

>>12115182
based fellow lithophile.

>>12115192
Yeah I thought about that. They had the advantage of living on land first. You mentioned octopi (?) and I would argue that a lot of cephalopods (mollusks) in general are really smart. Octopuses, cuddle fish, Nautilus, vampire squid.

If we found anything on Enceladus anywhere CLOSE to these my mind would be blown and it would be a big paradigm shift for all of science

So, does the paper really confirms that there are microayys on Venus or is it just wishful thinking?

>>12115182
imagine plasma based life, like c'tan

>>12115218
Detected products that aren't easily explained by known abiotic processes.

>>12115199
Im pretty sure a boltzmann brain is a little more complicated. It's an argument that virtual particles could spontaneously form and create a "brain" (or anything capable of thinking) for a fraction of a fraction of a second before disappearing, but it would have the entire memory of a whole lifetime before dissipating into the void again
>>12115198
Archea I believe. You find the same thing in antarctica. Extremophiles live INSIDE of huge glaciers and metabolize minerals that leech through the ice. Very... very... very slowly.
>>12115195
I've taken the RNA-world pill a long time ago. It's my belief that life started by chemical evolution next to hydrothermal vents 3-4 billion years ago. RNA was probably created due to pure chance, and found natural protocells to sit in. After a while they started multiplying and evolving into different organisms

>>12115210
Anon, even finding slime molds with metabolic pathways on enceladus would be a game changer. As would single cell life. If we found anything as complicated as cephalopods on another planet it would just make me mad that we didn’t launch a mission there way earlier lmao

>>12115247
spac sushi

>>12115170

>>12115254
>Aquatic lifeforms discovered in our solar system
>JAXA's budget increased 100-fold

>>12115154
what if they reached the dinosaur stage, and avoided getting rekt by an asteroid? space dinosaurs

>>12115159
Not him, but you forgot two starlink missions. One where one of the engines failed and second where they had incorrect weather data at ASDS position

>>12115265
China would hunt them to extinction for food.

>>12115266
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708878/

>>12115182
I can't believe Rebecca Sugar posts on /sfg/

>>12115266
Hmmm if the dinosaurs didn't get 360impactscoped, I'm pretty sure the avian dinosaurs would eventually reign. They would have eventually met some sort of extinction event / selective pressure by now. And look at modern birds (which are technically dinosaurs by definition). A lot of them such as crows are smart as shit. If they evolved the correct hands for manipulating their environment they could probably make it to space if the right set of evolutionary events lead to it

>>12115275
I was thinking that most likely any alien would be inedible to humans, but then I realized the Chinese would eat them anyway.

>>12115287
There is entirely too much beak on that fucking thing, look at it.

>>12115290

>>12115297
It would only take a few million years to become bipedal and lose that big ass beak I think.

>>12115290
Chinese aren't human

>>12115290

>>12115290
>Ambassador from Echolocatia IV dead after tragic misunderstanding with delegation from Space China
>>12115304
Sure I'm just wondering now how that thing didn't constantly tip over from being so top-heavy. Beaks are usually dense, right?

>>12115233
The RNApill is incredibly based and likely to be true. However RNA is a giant goddamn molecule. Then again if I remember correctly even in the Miller Urey experiment they built like 20 or so Amino Acids using just chemicals and muddy water (and lighting) so it’s not impossible. Pic related though apparently is a “small molecule” that can self replicate. Would it be alive? It can replicate, but it lacks genetic information. It also doesn’t metabolize, but its does produce waste.

Could someone make an enzyme that can self replicate? They’re already pretty “smart”

>>12115287
Birds were and are inferior to pterosaurs at flying, and inferior to other kinds of dinosaurs in many niches.

>>12115266
There’s no such thing as a “dinosaur stage”. Evolution is not a linear process towards humans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O15vipueLs
Finally

>>12115403
The only basedboy I can tolerate

>>12115403
My favorite basedboy.

>>12115403
His videos are way too fucking long

>>12115403
>Is Artemis an improvement over Apollo
How is that even a real question? Artemis blows Apollo out of the water.

>>12115436

>>12115353
Pterosaurs were being outcompeted by birds in almost all of their niches, the fact is that birds are simply better at many of the roles that pterosaurs previously filled, for many, many reasons more than something as reductive as "flight ability".

>>12115035
Any religious person who accept scientific result as more factual than part of their religious fiction become less believers and vary between victims of brainwashing or plain hypocrite. By their nature religion are all or nothing.

>>12115048
>militant atheist
And 'religious people' love to pretend atheism is another belief you campaign for.
Still, I recognize it's usually an abuse of language to design agnosticism which is a default stance.

>>12115090
Since you wonder why rational being are touchy about it
>idk what the big deal is
The big deal is that religion (the root cause of it) is the source of countless problems in the world even in the country were we've rendered them more harmless. The progress of a civilization is easily linked to the disappearance of religious belief.
We may not know how to fix the problem of religion, but explain the danger is usually better than leaving irrational belief propagate.

We wish we could ignore religious people and discuss more rocket instead.

>>12115438
Were you trying to make a point anon or were you just itching to use something from your meme folder even if it didn’t make any sense

>>12115445
How’s middle school going cody

>>12115446
I think he was implying that having a low attention span for longer videos was a sign of low intelligence. I can't be certain though, I'm not anon.

>>12115334
aw shid i god gorona :DDDD

>>12115445
Go away you spergy child. Im not religious but you are a fag.

>>12115455
Ah that makes sense then

>>12115439
t.

>>12115436
I agree, I'd rather more 20min videos like manley. Attention span isn't the issue, it's just that if he makes a video on a topic idgaf about, it's a month wait for another one.

>>12115437
I don't even know if this is a meme.

Good thread today though, only minimal bullshit

>>12114757
It's about priorities, humanity is facing an existential crisis

>>12115472
>I'd rather more 20min videos like manley.
Yeah that was the point I was trying to make. Estronaut’s videos best around the bush a lot. He likes to pride himself on “wanting to do all the research first”, but hullo can get the same point across in 1/3 the time and uploads are way more frequent
>>12115470
lmao

>>12114500
>>12114503
>>12114506
>>12114508
Y'all need more mormons in your lives. Worlds without number...

>>12115470
Kek

Also, holy fuck estronaut has a fuck ton of patreons..
https://everydayastronaut.com/partners/

>>12115048
militant athiests are just as annoying as zealous evangelicals. That they dont see themselves in one another is quite humorous

>>12115494
he's pulling in at least $20,000 a month

Venus had oceans before they boiled and evaporated, right? It probably took billions of years, so the microbial life had plenty of time to evolve and adapt.

>>12115540
Very likely. Sun also used to be a lot dimmer than it is now.

>>12115538
...WHAT

>>12115540
They surely had few billion years of habitable conditions, but how quick that runaway greenhouse planet boiling thing was? Could have been pretty fast in geological/biological terms.

>>12115540
Yeah venus almost certainly had life at one point. It was ahead of the curve, being all Earth-like before it was cool. I don’t know how fast it went through it’s green house feedback- but life could have found a niche under the rocks and might be there today. It’s also possible that life on earth is a product of panspermia from venus but I doubt we will ever know that unless we can terraform venus and go study some lithophiles there

>>12115538
>Rich and best friends with Elon
Maybe I should start drinking the onions...

>>12115572
Anyone have any idea how much Scott makes? Probably not as much. Also he has a day job but i’m pretty sure he only works there because he likes it and it keeps him in the sanfranlibral bubble

What happened to the royal astronomy society announcement? Life on venus?

>>12115436
I agree, I think I'm just going to go read the article instead

>>12115561
Well he has a store and sponsors and ad revenue too. Smaller channels than his earn that much, so him pulling in at least $20,000 is a safe bet.

>>12115572
He probably spends alot of it on his channel though. His videos have nice animations, he pays for live feeds, he has to travel to space launches and interviews, etc. so even if he makes $20,000 a month, he only gets to keep a portion of that.

>>12115576
Men In Black shutitdown.

>>12115576
Phosphine on Venus atmosphere
https://archive.is/L7MT1

>>12115580
How long does it take to foster a community like that? I would love to make a geology channel like Hullo’s. But spaceflight is way easier to consume than rock outcrops and stuff lmao

>>12115503
>militant athiests are just as annoying as zealous evangelicals
We both know the first is better to have around than the second, at least they stop when the zealot isn't around.

>>12115592
Years. Successful YouTube channels like EA are a serious commitment and take alot of resources. You have to have a great personality though. Without that you're not going to make it.

>>12115595
Atheism is not inherently bad but most atheists also are liberals. Liberalism is inherently a flawed ideology yeah I said it).

It’s kind of like how socialism is not entirely bad, but people who are socialist tend to fall down the hill and end up supporting communism

>>12115602
>estronaut has a good personality
lol

>>12115602
Yup, the hardest part of youtube is sticking through a year or two of basically working for free. Not to mention it all has to be on your own initiative. It's hard work. But the payoff is great

>>12115576
Its on 14th September, in less than 24 hours embargo will drop and official news and outlets will start talking about it. There are probably hundreds of different channels, some people wrote articles, recorded videos - everyone just waiting for the embargoe to drop to start talking.

>>12115581
>>12115584
okay, that's a bit spooky

>>12115622
I would make space YouTube videos if I knew how to use video editors and had a good voice. Pic is me

>>12115620
> trust me, I, a denizen of 4chan, am an expert in charisma.

>>12115439
>Pterosaurs were being outcompeted by birds in almost all of their niches

This was believed historically but is currently doubted.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25609421

The biggest flying things ever were pterosaurs, and they could fly higher and for longer. Birds ain’t shit and can’t even become apex land predators like the other theropods were

>>12115575
He works at Apple so probably more than Basedstranout.

>>12115629
Based, hitting bench right now actually. Do you work at ULA?

>>12115619
ameriburgers in charge of understanding isms.

>>12115653
Why are Euros obsessed with Americans?

>>12115659
sadly i'm also a burger-american, but anyone who's done even a tiny bit of reading can see how the average burger doesn't understand half of the political terms they throw out.

>>12115670
Anyone who's done a tiny bit of reading already knows more than the average American or European.
Spend some time in Europe, you'll find them just as intelligent as Americans.

fuel depots

>>12115708
You really cant fucking say that.

>>12115708
MODS HE SAID THE D WORD

>>12115728
>>12115724
>>12115708
this meme is getting stale from overuse

>>12115619
Classical liberalism isn’t a problem. I’m pretty sure the REAL definition of liberalism is what libertarianism is trying to be. Live and let live, don’t bother people, etc.
>>12115620
He’s søy to the bone but his personality isn’t bad, per se. I don’t watch estronaut but I respect what he does. And he has way less politics, if any, than other space youtubers.
>inb4 he defended china
He did not and y’all blow this way out of proportion. He was just mad that people were taking the piss at another country. He subscribes to that cringey star trek philosophy where he wants all countries to hold hands and work as “team humanity”
>>12115653
lmao. Yes.

>>12115738

>>12115744
Libertarianism is retarded because it is flat-out unable to prevent society from being destroyed by cancers.

>>12115755
I agree. Also their debates are fucking schizo-level weird. Men dressed like little girls, booing gary johnson for wanting drivers licenses, wanting cocaine to be legalized and the constant commitment to “muh market will fix itself!” Classical liberalism is way better but democrats have claimed it and tainted it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O15vipueLs

Numale astronaut on SLS

>>12115629
Are you a bottom? Be my bf

>>12115619
Here we go again, mixing up religion with politic, some countries don't get the point of the separation between church and state.

>>12115659
It's natural to worry about a country with a lot of power and not that much restrain or political stability. Yes I'm a yuropean, but even the burger-citizens are getting worried to be ignored by their government.

If you guy insist on bringing politic and religion here, how about switching to the political structure of a Mars colony? I mean beside worshiping Elon as the prophetic CEO-Emperor of Mars.

SN5, SN6, SN8, SN9

>>12115808
literally cant hold all these starships

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXsXyZB7T5I

>>12115808
God, they really do look like silos. Complete with the dust filter on top.

>>12115839
Ohhh this showed up in my recommended videos today and I watched it. His deployable solar panels are strange and the lifeboat idea is weird.

>>12115839
>tfw spacex just watches starship design speculation vids for their starship designs

So like, will NASA pay to use a starship to study Venus? NASA could send a sample return probe to Venus, and set up a mobile laboratory on a starship to analyze whatever the process is that's making phosphine, that way if there is microbial life, we won't risk contaminating Earth with it

>>12115808
Remember when people laughed at them being rusty and wrinkled?

>>12115881
Launching off Venus is basically impossible

So what happens now? There is effectively enough evidence to say there is life on venus... Will there be actual momentum to do anything about it?

>>12115904
>There is effectively enough evidence to say there is life on venus...

Source now

>>12115900
if you're in the clouds, you can launch to LVO with the same sort of vehicle that can launch to LEO
a note: you can fit an Electron into Starship's payload bay

>>12115900
Just drop an SRB return rocket off of a big origami balloon probe bro, similar to a pegasus lmao

>>12115900
Sample the atmosphere instead, that's where the shit is isn't it?

>>12115904
no, these findings will be scrutinized by every astrobiologist and astronomer on earth until they either disprove them or give up

Venusian rockoon sample return

>>12115881
Not trying to be a snarky asshole, but please enlighten me as to how we could do a sample return mission. Aside from the hostile environment that will melt lead, the gravity well is basically the same as Earth's. You would need some ingenious design to get even a gram off the surface and into LVO

>>12115659
They’re still mad that all the Europeans worth a damn either moved to America or died during the world wars.

>>12115881
maybe

>>12115808
My ancestor :^)

>>12115913
Lol doubters seething

>>12115919
Use a rocket similar to the Pegasus
NASA even has concept manned Venus airship that uses a rocket similar to a pegasus to return the crew to orbit

>>12115928
I bet Electron would have enough payload from Venusian cloudtops to return a man to LVO with his spacesuit

>>12115919
the cool stuff is on the top of the atmosphere, a flyby will do
for the surface, maybe a balloon and SRB as other mentioned

>>12115928
Oh shit that’s actually not a bad idea. Our air launch tech sucks dick though. But if NASA and SpaceX were determined they could get it done. Once you get a sample to the upper atmosphere you could air launch it, but the only problem is, how do you go from ground -> air launcher?

>>12115287
>>12115628
Chad Ruskies gave Venus a venereal disease probing it with Venera 7.

>>12115932
Would the extreme heat not ignite your SRB fuel? I guess it’s better than using a propellant that needs to be cryogenically fueled lol. Any fuels that perform better at higher temperatures?

>>12115936
same way you stay in the middle atmosphere in general on Venus
balloons

>>12115940
you cannot launch from the hot parts of Venus with a rocket, so you don't need to worry about the temperature
it's rather temperate in the middle atmosphere above and in the cloud tops

>>12115770
Is Artemis 1 really necessary?

>>12115936
Check out the madman concept NASA proposed called HAVOC
https://youtu.be/0az7DEwG68A

>>12115940
good point. you could just have any kind of rocket on a balloon on the higher atmosphere and send the samples up with another balloon.

Chad Ruskies gave Venus a venereal disease probing it with Venera.

>>12115956
I meant in terms of launching from the surface, but as >>12115949 pointed out we could use a balloon.
So what I gather is this:
• Starship launches everything to Venus
• Zeppelin is deployed to middle atmosphere with Pegasus-style air launcher
• Ground collection probe is deployed - drops from zeppelin and parachutes down. Needs some hardy ass parachutes and needs to be made of something that won't fucking melt right away
• Quickly scoops up dirt and rocks. This needs to be fast, and for best results the landing area should be pre-determined by radar for best geological sample (duh)
• Sample secure; balloons inflate and probe rendezvous with zeppelin
• Transfer of sample to Pegasus-launcher, payload launched to LVO where starship then gets it and brings it back to Earth

>>12115986
>pegasus-style air launch
literally an Electron

>>12115991
>Using a cryogenic liquid fuel rocket on your high risk high chance of failure mission instead of stable SRBs
Sorry bruh, SRBs just werks
You also need to have that rocket survive the forces of reentry without any issue

>>12115991
Okay fine fine electron it is. Also I'm not sure a baloon could survive on the surface but if y'all think it could work let me know. Also how could it rendezvous with the baloon? You cant exactly put rotocopter blades on the thing without it melting... Maybe as long as it gets close enough through some clever aerodynamic wings or something we could slap a Canadarm on the bottom and it can just grab it when it gets close. The Canadians can make themselves useful if they want

>>12115986
Maybe starship could just stay on venus' orbit as a f_e_ d__o_, and a smaller transport vehicle would bring it to earth and go back to venus.
Idk how hard it would to scoop co2 from venus to make methalox.

>>12116004
We can put metal blades on it. But to answer those questions we need to be more specific about altitudes.

>>12114420
>China

>>12115998
>>12116004
>high risk rocket development on top of high risk origami balloon and high risk atmospheric rendezvous
anyway if it doesn't work, just send a few more Starships

There's no way the phosphine is a biotic reaction on Venus. The planet has such incredible chemistry, heat, and pressures that it is most likely an abiotic reaction.

>>12115437
Apollo is real, we've seen it down at KSC...

>>12116029
HYPERGOLIC
CHINESE
SPACE ZEPPELINS

>>12115889
They are beautiful now, aren't they?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-msYufs3nY

>>12116042
We could literally try it a million times on a Starship and probably save money compared to one SLS launch

life on venus means that the great filter is ahead of us

>>12116306
how the fuck can something live on the surface of venus when it's literally hot enough to melt lead

>>12116316
>surface
>>12116306
Elaborate pls.

>>12116316
it doesn't live on the surface

>>12116306
Perhaps. Definitely reinforced by the Carter Catastrophe/Doomsday Argument.

>>12116320
>>12116322
im still pretty sure that some puddle kilometres underground won't host more than single cellular life

>>12116289
You are joking but the SLS is expected to cost about 1000 times per launch when compared to the Starship.
>>12116316
Venus upper atmosphere is far cooler and have a far lower pressure, to the point it is regarded as Earth-like, so life would have a easier time there. Also, there were multiple reports of dark clouds which might be the result of microorganisms living in the upper atmosphere there.

>>12116328
It's not underground either

>>12116320
>Elaborate pls.
Life on Venus means life could be common in the universe. If life is common then how come we don't know of any other intelligent species or civilizations? Because they're all dead.

>>12116316
>surface
no, the cloud layers

>>12116345
Could also mean that we were one of the few to pass it. We already have some good candidates: mitochondria, nukes, boomers, intelligence might be rare, etc.

>>12116320
>Elaborate pls.
Should there be life on Venus, and should said life not be the result of panspermia, then life should be relatively common in the universe, meaning that abiogenesis isn't the great filter.
It don't necessarily means that the great filter is still ahead of us, though.

>>12116361
>intelligence might be rare
Or an evolutionary dead end

>>12116361
>Mitochondria
Forgot about that. Yeah it’s amazing the processes that led us to having actual organelles. If some bacteria billions of years ago didn’t eat up a chemotroph we may have never progressed past the prokaryotic stage.

>>12116339
>>12116352
>bro they live in the clouds bro
no.

>>12114910
lurk moar

>>12116389
do your reading, kid, the venusian cloud layer is almost hospitable to life

>>12116389
You know about the leak of tomorrows announcement? That is why we are larping about venus.
https://archive.is/L7MT1

video from tomorrow's venus conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBDyp06qp1U

>>12116306
>Elon's pinned tweet for months

>>12115738
This. No more talks of depots anymore.

>>12116409
aha
this time i managed to save it, thanks anon

What are the chances NASA presses the brakes on Mars colonization in light of life being found on Venus?

>>12116426
idk idc
elon chan will take me to mars on his lap

>>12115900
Can you do any sort of reasonable ISRU in the clouds of Venus?

Give it to me straight. Have we found aliens? I don’t want to be blueballed like with that Martian Meteorite or the Dimming Dyson Sphere star

>>12116440
2H2O + CO2 -> 2O2 + CH4

>>12116330
>You are joking...
I was being serious lmao. I don't know the exact numbers (and this is probably wrong) but for back of the envelope thinking I usually go with $2 billion for an SLS launch and $2 million for Starship.
Yeah that's a huge number for shit launch system but keep in mind development has been fucking off the charts, and SpaceX is doing it on their own dime plus want to get launches low for any customers such as NASA right off the bat

>>12116453
No. You are going to be blue balled. We are just larping.
But you are going to be blue balled by qt3.14 (>>12116409) astrophysicist, which could become a nice fetish.

>>12116471
>$2 billion for an SLS launch and $2 million
That is 1000 anon, not one million.
>>12116330
Don't forget the development costs.

>>12116471
Uhhhh cost per launch is currently listed as “over $2 billion” on Wikipedia. Kek I’m pretty sure you are right. Development has been fucked for the past 10 years, and each engine on the thing costs about $200 million (and won’t be reused this time).

Musk wants to launch a starship for 1/100th the price of a SINGLE ENGINE for SLS. So yeah, you were correct. NASA could absolutely send 1,000 attempts for a venus sample return on SS and save money compared to an SLS mission

>>12116479
Okay that number was a joke lol. 1000 is still fucking insane. I mean even -HALF- the price would put SLS to shame

>>12116426
I would argue that it would increase the funding to explore and study all planets within the solar system and that life being found on Mars might not that big of a concern if it's already found on Venus. The worse situation is if it's only found on Mars.

>>12116490
WHAT THE FUCK?!?! How is SLS even a thing?? Starship could go over budget five-hundred fold and you’d still be cheap as fuck compared to SLS. The RS-25’s really cost that much??

>>12113805

>>12116479
>Don't forget the development costs.
SLS launch price doesn't take into account its dev price.
Shelby really outdone himself this time.
>>12116506
Jobs ain't free. Are some commie that want to see AMERICANS jobless?

>>12116506
2m is aspirational, likely starship costs 90m or something per launch. Not including tanker flights. Still great but not OMFG BTFO 1000 TIMES

>>12116506
A single R25 costs about the customer price of FH (off the lot, no reuse discount)

>>12116506

>The RS-25’s really cost that much??

Yeah, the RS-25 engines are expensive as fuck but at least on the Shittle, they got reused so their expense was kind of worth it. But now, they are being discarded after every launch.

Keep in mind, they are first going to use up all the old RS-25's that were made for the Shuttles and have seen space dozens of times. These ones, that realisticaly should be in museums, are being thrown away after each launch.

Welcome to SLS.

>>12116526
Hydrogen is the gayest element on the periodic table

>>12116519
>Shelby really outdone himself this time.
He did it for the american people.
A true american hero!

>>12116539
t. carbon blob

>>12116537
What's worse is SLS has been delayed so many times, they have a stockpile of new RS-25E's ready to go. But they are still using the workhorse shuttle engines because they told congress they would.

>>12116361
Oh jesus christ alien boomers are the most terrifying concept I can imagine.

tfw we get genocided not by alien zealots or by alien strip miners but by some alien NIMBYers who don't like the look of our spaceships.

>>12116520
I think Musk can get it bellow 20 million per launch. Remember, it is fully reusable and Falcon 9 already manages to 28 million/launch, and that is being brand new.

>>12116506
The best part is they can only realistically build two per year if they really get their asses in gear. And it's expendable, so you can only *launch* two per year.
Yes, the Shelby Launch System is truly the future!

>>12116549
tim diddley just released a video in which he analyses sls cost it ends up being like a couple of billion dollars per launch in the best case scenario assuming no more budget increases (yeah right)

how will they deal with all of this once starship starts flying?

i mean its like investing all of the money in your country on swords when a guy is about to invent the machinegun, there's just no way this won't have consequences

>>12116581
*sip*
ahh space mustangs, yup those were the days.
ayy lmao

>>12116656
>how will they deal with all of this once starship starts flying?
They will just throw more money at it. Remember, Uncle Sam pockets are deep, and Shelby ain't some goddammit commie to let AMERICANS go jobless.

>>12116666
>They will just throw more money at it. Remember, Uncle Sam pockets are deep, and Shelby ain't some goddammit commie to let AMERICANS go jobless.
but it will be ridiculous, like, starship will be doing the same, no not the same ,something MUCh better for like 1000 times less cost it will be completely unhidable. there's no way heads wont roll here.

some things never change... until they do, and thats exactly whats about to happen to old space

mfw the fucking Venusian balloon memers might have been right all along
Did we get too cocky, Martian bros?

>>12116683
>but it will be ridiculous, like, starship will be doing the same, no not the same ,something MUCh better for like 1000 times less cost it will be completely unhidable. there's no way heads wont roll here.
Are you some commie, son? Why do you hate an industry that give thousands of patriotic AMERICANS so much?

>>12116689
>patriotic AMERICANS
patriotic AMERICANS jobs*

>>12116648
Biggest hurdles will be ensuring raptor can stay cheap. Even if a raptor can only pull out about 10 flights, it’s okay as long as it’s cheap enough to where you can make a stockpile and replace them once SS comes back to the Astrodome in boca for refurbishment [reminder that elon said he expects 1000 flights from them and he’s already approaching 375 sec isp (!) and they aren’t that expensive already]

Secondly would be getting the manufacturing cost down low. It will fuck everything up if the raw steel and fuel cheap but it costs hundreds of millions to make each SS. You don’t want to have to rely on expensive welds and weird custom heat shield pieces [reminder that elon is testing SS like software, iterating each piece to make it as cheap as possible. Also SS is fully reusable so cost will inherently be cheaper]

It’s basically fundamentally cheap. As long as Elon can get the thing flying without exploding or decompressing or something, it’s gonna be a cheap ass rocket all things considered. Hardest part right now is getting the heat tiles bolted and working (at least that looks like the biggest problem). Everything else seems to be running smoothly. Am I missing anything else in this post?

>>12116687
Lmao this gave me a good laugh anon

>>12116689
>Are you some commie, son? Why do you hate an industry that give thousands of patriotic AMERICANS so much?
fucking shit, elon musk is the fucking epitome of capitalism, he's like adam smith, ronald reagan and the us dollar himself genetically spliced into one super capitalist.
It's old space themselves who act interestingly similar to how the soviet union worked, huge organizations with a bit of autonomy but under direct favoritism from a comically oversized state, the difference was more in the name.

>>12116705
>heat tiles bolted
is it confirmed the attachment method will be bolted? also the idea ist o quickly replace them right?

also, is sweaty cooling off the table?

also, how wil lthey bolt to the surface? i thought the outer surface was basically the wall of the fuel tank wouldnt driving a screw trough it basically be puncturing the fuel tank?

>>12116687
I'd still rather go to Mars.

>>12116656
>how will they deal with all of this once starship starts flying?
They will cancel SLS and go private.
>i mean its like investing all of the money in your country on swords when a guy is about to invent the machinegun, there's just no way this won't have consequences
To be fair the machine gun doesn't exist yet.
SLS' virtue is being un-cacellable, that is how it was conceived. There was zero political will to invest in space exploration, so NASA shielded the project in bureaucratic armor. A large part of it is "made" of actual laws, not executive orders.
Do you think it is a coincidence that the Senator Shelby of fucking Alabama is so involved with it? He was the cheapest one to buy (politically).

>>12116705
Um well I don't think he's approached 375 yet. I think it's more like 340 (which is still really good). He said 375 is a goal and he expects raptor to be able to go beyond this. Isn't the RS-25 rated around 450?
Also I think the heat shield problem is just speculation right now. But from the looks of it they don't really have a way to bolt them on correctly yet. But they've been testing this thing for like what, 2 years? And they just started with the heat shields. They'll figure it out.
Everytime Elon says something like "375 isp" it sounds like he's making shit up and lying through his teeth to sell us some snake oil... but somehow he always gets the product out there. The man is a gift from the gods and I'm fairly certain he is Von Braun reincarnated

>>12116705
Starship is going to be fully reusable, and a raptor is said to be around 2 million per unit, so yeah, its gonna be cheap.
>>12116687
2020 have been a wild ride of a year.

>>12116687
Mars gays are done
Venus lesbians rise up

>>12116729
This isn’t a direct quote coming up here, but yes, musk said “I expect to get to 375 sec isp and beyond”. Which is fucking astounding. It’s like the jump from falcon to falcon full thrust.

Not to mention he already has the idea on the table of coming up with a new engine once Raptor has done its thing for a while. The whole “it will be named after a dinosaur” thing. Raptor is already amazing, I don’t even want to thing about what his company could pump out that could outdo it. Is a chemical 500+ sec isp engine even in the realm of possibility?

>>12116726
>To be fair the machine gun doesn't exist yet.
fair, but its not like they're tring to invent a mouth loading musket that will have niche uses and could some day become dominant as a weapon but it will take many generations for it to do so.

no, they are literally going from sword to m-16 rifle, that's the difference between sls and starship, its a gigantic and complete game changer

>>12116726
>Do you think it is a coincidence that the Senator Shelby of fucking Alabama is so involved with it? He was the cheapest one to buy (politically).
you make it sound as if nasa leadership is composed of the foundation from isac asimov novel

>>12116726
>o be fair the machine gun doesn't exist yet.
Neither does the sword so far, and everything is point to the machinegun coming out first.

>>12116758
but a sword once existed and the people working on the new sword are many of the same who made the original one

>>12116747
>Is a chemical 500+ sec isp engine even in the realm of possibility?
I think it tops around 450 for LH2-LOX.

>>12116771
the theoretical maximum for hydrolox is like 530, so you could probably squeeze out a bit more
RL-10 gets up to like 465 in vacuum

so the raptor ended up being higher chamber pressure than expected, doesnt that mean more thrust and therefore more cargo to leo and therefore even lower $/kg to orbit?

i mean arent some of the estimates actually close to space elevator tier ?

>>12116758
SLS is un-cancelable atm, it was conceived this way when elon didn't even have the falcon 9.
They will only cancel it once SS is proven and even then SLS will be used for a while.
>>12116755
They did what they had to take the thing off the ground. (I'm aware of the irony in my choice of words.)

>>12116806
>i mean arent some of the estimates actually close to space elevator tier ?
This clark tech. Basically anything with regards to it can be disregarded.

>>12116812
why doesnt anyone from nasa/the armed forces finds a way to invest directly in starship, if it turns out its even close to possible then no matter what political speculations are going on the benefits to whoever invest in it will be incredibly fantastic, like, whoever invests heavily in it could have short term moon landing, and thats just for starters

>>12114875
>"supposed finding of microbial life"
>it's actually just phosphines
Pop science clickbait article. Why the fuck do you think they pulled it?

>>12116729
375 s ISP is for the vacuum engine in vacuum

>>12116806
According to wikipedia, it would cost about 220 dollars/kg to ship shit into GEO with a space elevator, while starship state goal is to to achieve 20ish bucks/kg into LEO, so I guess it is comparable.

>>12116828
Phosphines are a strong indicator of ayys, since Venus should have next to nothing of it in the atmosphere.

>>12116833
Did no one know methane was even a fuel in the 70s? I'm joking but I'm also kind of serious. Surely in the dumb chase for ISP they looked at hydrogen and said
>Wow this is really good, but we need a shit load of it and it boils off too fast
Like why is methalox only now becoming an option? It sounds just as good as hydrogen. You sacrifice a little bit of isp but it's better in every other category

>>12116835
>so I guess it is comparable
its mind blowing that this absolute madlad will seriously attempt to achieve an irl working spaceship with the efficiency atributed to a fucking piece of fucking honest to god science fiction made up thingie that is conceived to sound as amazing and impressive as possible

>>12116823
SS has already been selected as a lander and transport ship for Artemis. SpaceX will receive (or already did) the 300 million (I think) they asked for.

>>12116838
The addiction of chasing ISP made engineers forget the tanks need to be larger (and weigh more as result) and that price and difficulty of engineering components goes through the fucking roof
Engineers =/= good at business and economies of scale

>>12116839
Musk aimed high and reached the sky. He will probably be remembered as Archimedes of the modern era, should he truly deliver.

>>12116520
i think starship can get to 5m with it being fully reusable

dude
WHAT IF
what if we just make some more RL-10s?

>>12116838
RP-1 is a great option too. It is easier to work with than methane too. Downside is that it fills your engine with polymers from half burn long hydrocarbons.

>>12116856
Would that create more jobs? American jobs, that is.

>>12116835
starship goal is 13$/kg to LEO, thats 150 metric tonnes for 2m per launch

RL-10 POWERED CARBON FIBER STARSHIP

>>12116856
cost plus :^)

>>12116837
There are phosphines on Jupiter. It's fucking everywhere.

Starship need to switch to hydrolox, implement a large orange foam fuel tank for its first and second stage, use good american-made rs-25's and to give it that extra kick at lunch use a couple good american-made SRBs

>>12116838
subcooled propane is actually the best, it's only slightly worse ISP than methane and almost as dense as RP-1

>>12116875
I like the sound of this proposal, how many jobs are we talking?

>>12116872
Jupiter atmosphere is very different, and the abiotic reactions that create phosphines in Venus shouldn't be enough to achieve the amounts detected. That is why it is being regarded as a strong indicator that there is something wacky going on there.
Of course, the article is gonna get scrubbed from top to bottom by basically everyone with a chemistry degree, so the way is to wait and see.

>>12116878
We could utilize existing shuttle infrastructure to keep patriotic American jobs, that way our talented American workforce can produce Space Shuttle quality rockets :)

>>12116872
>>12116880
It is coming out in less than 24 hours. Just calm down and wait to see.

BALLOOOOOOOONNNNNSSSSSS

Balloon depots

bros why dont we just fill balloons with negative mass and use them in space?

>>12116828
Phosphine gas is produced only by life and some laboratory conditions. You’re an idiot.

>>12116975
>and some laboratory conditions
Such as the conditions found in some layers of Venus and Jupiter.
Thanks for playing the game.

>>12116978
venus surface has temperatures and pressures just edging into where you would expect phosphine production in gas giants, but that route requires abundant H2 that venus does not have

VENUS CLOUD SAMPLE RETURN

>>12116997
Not like we have a sun that blows helium all over the place or anything, right?

>>12116978
> Such as the conditions found in some layers of Venus

No, actually.

>>12117000
Sorry, hydrogen. It's almost 3am.

>>12117000
>>12117004
Does it get enough to explain the amounts of phosphines? And how the ultralight H2 gets into into the lower levels of Venus atmosphere, to the levels pressure and heat necessary?

>>12117020
I wouldn't know. Ask the Russians if their lenscaps have measured it.

>>12116847
>300 million
that's peanuts, the budget for ss is like 1 billion, and theyre close to revolutionizing the world, imagine what htey could do with 20 billion, or if they had 5 billion for development of the vehicle and 15 billion to designs missions, we could have manned moon mars and near asteroid missions, maybe even to europa, with that capacity you can assemble whatever ship you want in orbit with the needed redundancy to realistically attempt it.

ooor, you could send in a couple of years an order of magnitude more probes that have ever been launched, lander orbiters and rovers to every body in the solar system.

im so excited yes im a ridiculous fanboy come at me

The good news is that a cheap and quick probe to Venus should be easily affordable. We can probably have one on it's way to the planet in a year or two.

>>12117056
>We
Alright boys... what will be the name of the cheap /sfg/ funded Venus sample return mission?

>>12117063
4GAS

>>12117056
it will be so cheap that it will probably malfunction and just like end up sending astronauts to fix it but rather than that they will just take a blimp to the upper atmosphere and perform the studies themselves from there

>>12117030
Jesus christ if SpaceX got $20 billion from NASA they would finish starship development for $500 million, pay for an entire colony with $1 billion, and use the rest to create a FTL drive and leave this gay solar system.

>>12117063
SHITAR. A joke on ishtar (babylonian equivalent of venus). We could make a backronym... first word could be "Sample", last word could be "Return"

>>12117101
shit hoe interplanetary traffic in arms regulations

>>12117106
interplanetary arms smuggling when

>>12117109
Just play starsector, nigga.

>>12117113
yeah but that doesn't let me shoot my AR-15 at communists and feds on the moon