/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12109796
on an individual level practically. it only works collectively because of its minimal transmission probability reduction aggregating. get a real mask.

>>12109805
Is there solid proof of this "transmission probability reduction" or is it based on rushed shitty studies made in the last few months?

>>12109796
not only is it a placebo in terms of its effect on the invisible enemy, it also inducts the wearer into a satanic masquerade they are, for the most part, unaware they are participating in

>>12109796
They work, assuming you actually cover your nose.

Let's try to not get into a political argument pls.

>>12109830
Yeah we're assuming a proper use (which is never the case in real life but whatever).
At what rate do they work? "kind of" and "a little bit, maybe" are mostly what you can deduce from various studies.

>>12109811

So the Japanese have been utilizing face mask in public for years because of muh placebo?

>>12109837
If droplet is the primary means of transmission, two people, each wearing a mask, should reduce transmission to almost zero. If aerosol transmission is more common, then anything but a respirator will only work for very short exposures.

>>12109841
post the scientific studies which support the use of face coverings to ward off the World Health Organization declared pandemic "Covid-19"

>>12109847
https://www.nature.com/
articles/s41591
-020-0843-2

We detected coronavirus in respiratory droplets and aerosols in 3 of 10 (30%) and 4 of 10 (40%) of the samples collected without face masks, respectively, but did not detect any virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols collected from participants wearing face masks, this difference was significant in aerosols and showed a trend toward reduced detection in respiratory droplets

>>12109796
it wont protect you from shit but it protects others from your shit so yes they do work you retarded dumbfuck, if everyone wears one

>>12109841
Maybe. Maybe it was a cultural thing, maybe it was the pollution, I don't know.
It doesn't prove much anyway.

>>12109855
>Participants were recruited year-round from March 2013 through May 2016 in a general outpatient clinic of a private hospital in Hong Kong.

>>12109867
So? Why would masks work any differently against the same class of virus with similar dimensions?

>>12109857
Calm down, it's not like anyone is using them correctly, so it's more of a theoretical discussion.

>>12109857
>, if everyone wears one
you ever try to hold water in your hands?

>>12109876
*in the general population, that is.

WEAR THE MASK GOYIM
WEAR THE CHASTITY BELT

>>12109870
this is a sample size of literally 10 participants of whom 4 coofed. and there was no virus in the aerosols anyway. is this the study that the global mask mandates are based on?

>>12109796
You fucking dumbasses forget these are "surgical masks" these pieces of paper material masks have been stopping the spread of diseases for literally years during the most sensitive of operations. Do they actually work? Yeah, even when your heart is fucking cut open and exposed they work. But they don't work for the wearer, they work for you. So everyone needs to wear one.
Do these actually work? Fucking idiot don't post on /sci/ anymore

>>12109899
>and there was no virus in the aerosols anyway.
Good thing we're concerned about the droplets. Without respirators, not much can be done about aerosol transmission.

>>12109908
> In the subset for coronavirus (n=4), we did not detect any virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols from any participants.
>n = 4
>n = 4
truly disgusting

>>12109900
Why do people get so emotional about this subject?

>>12109855
It is one of those shitty studies I was talking about here >>12109811.

>>12109841
the japanese wear masks because of pollen allergies that developed in the 60s after the rebuilding effort from the second world war. during their economic boom they needed wood that grew very fast to rebuild the houses, so they planted Cedar and Cypress, releasing a ton of pollen and then they put down asphalt and concrete, making the pollen more airborne since it couldnt get stomped down into the soil

in conclusion, pollen way bigger than virums, so this is irrelevant

>>12109796

>A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control. (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article))

>A July 2020 review by the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medince found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth masks against virus infection or transmission. (https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/))

An April 2020 review by two US professors in respiratory and infectious disease from the University of Illinois concluded that face masks have no effect in everyday life, neither as self-protection nor to protect third parties (so-called source control). (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data))

An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020 came to the conclusion that cloth face masks offer little to no protection in everyday life. (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372))

An April 2020 Cochrane review (preprint) found that face masks in the general population or health care workers didn’t reduce influenza-like illness (ILI) cases. (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047217v2))

An April 2020 review by the Norwich School of Medicine (preprint) found that “the evidence is not sufficiently strong to support widespread use of facemasks”, but supports the use of masks by “particularly vulnerable individuals when in transient higher risk situations.” (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01.20049528v1))

A July 2020 study by Japanese researchers found that cloth masks “offer zero protection against coronavirus” due to their large pore size and generally poor fit. (http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13523664))

>>12109914
it's the Mr Smith Effect

>>12109913
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

Masks dramatically reduce droplets, which are the primary carriers of the virus.

>>12109914
Because they're scared of diseases and they think being a good boy for the big daddy world government will save them.

>>12109921

>>12109918
>An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020
We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org)1 as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions.2,3 Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not.4

We did state in the article that “wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection,” but as the rest of the paragraph makes clear, we intended this statement to apply to passing encounters in public spaces, not sustained interactions within closed environments. A growing body of research shows that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission is strongly correlated with the duration and intensity of contact: the risk of transmission among household members can be as high as 40%, whereas the risk of transmission from less intense and less sustained encounters is below 5%.5-7 This finding is also borne out by recent research associating mask wearing with less transmission of SARS-CoV-2, particularly in closed settings.8 We therefore strongly support the calls of public health agencies for all people to wear masks when circumstances compel them to be within 6 ft of others for sustained periods.

>>12109841
Japanese also utilized cutting bellies and death from overworking.

>>12109922
>droplets, which are the primary carriers of the virus.
where did you read that?

>>12109934
It's not aerosols. You're left with fomites and droplets.

>>12109857
>it protects others from your shit
If they want to be protected from shit they should stay home.

>>12109936
what size droplets?

>>12109940
The cutoff is generally considered above 5 μm.

>>12109900
>So everyone needs to wear one.
Does not follow.

>>12109932
>the intent of our article was to push for more masking
OY VEY SHUT IT DOWN

put your masks on, stupid goys

>>12109932
Holy fuck that's a convoluted back-pedaling.

>>12109922
why do you think it is that after trillions of dollars and 9 months and supposedly a pandemic's worth of cases, the only "face covering" studies you've got involve hamster cages and cellphone cameras ?

>>12109954
They're literally lurking here and monitoring these threads...

It works well to install the new normal.

>>12109955
>the only "face covering" studies you've got involve hamster cages and cellphone cameras ?
Already posted a human study showing masks reduced viral spread. I'm not sure what you're expecting, you want people kept in a lab and intentionally infected with SARS-CoV-2?

>>12109974
>you want people kept in a lab and intentionally infected with SARS-CoV-2?
sure, its literally not dangerous for healthy people

>>12109974
>people kept in a lab
what the fuck do you think "lockdown" is?

>>12109980
I recommend contacting a health organization and volunteering, then.

>>12109983
You mean like the ones who spread disinformation on Chinese cartoon forums?

>>12109983
THAT'S UNETHICAL. THE ONLY SAFE THING TO DO IS OBEY THE CENTRAL BANKS AND LOCK YOURSELF AT HOME AND ALWAYS WEAR A MASK

>>12109982
"Lockdown" where I live meant teleworking for a while, going for walks outside, grocery shopping, etc.

>>12109949
>>12109986
>>12109987
Could you guys try to actually have a discussion about masks instead of political bullshit?

>>12109991
it's over then? all because of a piece of magic cloth?

>>12109997
t. unpaid intern for the New England Journal of Medicine

>>12109997
>masks aren't political even though the only reason people pretend they work is for politically correct reasons
gas yourself, niggerkike

It appears pretty clear that there's no consensus about surgical/clothing masks effectiveness.
Actually, the studies stating otherwise look more solid.
Whatever.

The mask definitely seems placebo like. But it does actually help. The issue is making sure no one messes with the mask while working near each other. At most jobs it is easy. But factories are a different story.


Native americans died out because the items:blankets was covered in disease.

And as a covid cleaner. For gm. I can tell you no one was cleaning the items coming in from outside the country. We were walking in a circle every two hours. Wiping down water fountains/rails/ and bathrooms. But no one was wiping down parts coming in from outside the country. And is it a big wonder/conspiracy how disease was spreading even during a global shut down? It's not some purposeful bio warfare. It's just a habbit of buisness at this point.

And I am almost 30. And there has been about 4 or six. Diseases

Swineflu/zeakka/covid-19/avianflu/ and they seem to come around during elections/Olympics. When the world is doing a bunch of global traveling.

>>12110001
There never was a true lockdown in the USA.

>>12110018
This is also true for Sweden and they seem to be doing fine right now.

>>12109997
>trust (((the sources))), the virus is literal doomsday tier
>ignore how places with no lockdowns are doing just as good as else where
remember how Russia went into full lockdown in like fucking Feburary and still had some of the most cases

>>12110021
So why are you complaining about lockdowns that didn't exist?

>>12110023
So we've shifted from masks to lockdowns now?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

Among 139 clients exposed to two symptomatic hair stylists with confirmed COVID-19 while both the stylists and the clients wore face masks, no symptomatic secondary cases were reported; among 67 clients tested for SARS-CoV-2, all test results were negative. Adherence to the community’s and company’s face-covering policy likely mitigated spread of SARS-CoV-2.

>>12110026
What changed in humanity's collective knowledge of face masks between now and nine months ago?

>>12109997

>>12110042
Yes, there's politics surrounding masks. However, this is supposed to be a science board, so why can't we discuss the actually efficacy of masks instead of making it about politics? OP asked whether or not masks actually work, and 90% of the posts in this thread have been nothing but shit flinging.

>>12110038
>What changed in humanity's collective knowledge
It only changed in the West when there was actual research carried out.

>>12109841
The Japanese are perhaps the worst example to give if you wish to assert the practicality of a given behaviour. Any knowledge of history will inform you that the Japanese as a people are highly prone to formal gestures and mannered rituals (e.g. mask wearing).

>>12110047
>OP asked whether or not masks actually work, and 90% of the posts in this thread have been nothing but shit flinging.
because OP is a dumb faggot, it doesnt matter if masks work or not, because with or without them, the healthy people will still be fine
why the fuck are people so upset about a totally natural culling, stop playing god and accept that death exists

>>12110023


China didn't know about the first case until October. And the disease has a 2 week incubation period.

So more then likely the first case wasn't ground zero. And the disease started spreading a few months prior. And since china ships parts all over the world. The disease was already in place before the lockdown.. just like in the game plague inc.

>>12110051
How is this new research any different from the studies that were conducted just a few years ago?

>>12110056
Nothing wrong with the way you feel, but why the fuck are you in this thread then when you had no interest in the intended discussion?

>>12110047
the problem that mask disciples have is that there are no studies which demonstrate that masks work against the invisible enemy, which, given that the "science" on them is supposedly "settled", is rather strange. the strangeness however can quickly be accounted for when politics and jewish control of the media is factored in

>>12109947
If my mask saves you from my germs, your mask saves me from your germs.

>>12110061
>from the studies that were conducted just a few years ago?
Can you post them? Nearly every study I found involving masks in January and February came from Asia. Western researchers weren't even looking at them.

>>12110064
So why do surgeons wear masks? For shits and giggles? Genuinely want to know your opinion why surgeons working in 99% sterile environments wear mask?

>>12110067
That's a big "if" you've got there. Also, why is my responsibility to babysit some faggot who is afraid of getting the sniffles?

>>12109900
This could only be said by someone who's never actually worked with surgeons or stepped inside an operating theatre in their life.

>>12110070
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/swine-flu-h1n1-and-face-masks#1

>>12110074
OK so why do they wear them? And those thin paper oversheets?

>>12110062
>but why the fuck are you in this thread then when you had no interest in the intended discussion?
its been six fucking months and small businesses are going under, i think talking about the potential for a depression is much more important than unfit people with weak immune systems biting it

>>12110064
>no studies
I posted multiple studies showing cheap surgical masks block viral transmission and reduce droplet spread by 95%, plus a case study where symptomatic infected hair dressers didn't spread the virus to 139 of the clients they worked on despite SARS-CoV-2 being spread primarily through close contact.

>>12110078
That's fine, make a thread about it? It has nothing to do with mask efficacy.

>>12110075
Notice not a single reference contained in that article, and I'm aware of the ferret study, plus a couple of mouse studies. The West had ignored masks.

>>12110081
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

>>12110084
>Information on the effectiveness of facemasks and respirators for decreasing the risk of influenza infection in community settings is extremely limited. Thus, it is difficult to assess their potential effectiveness in decreasing the risk of 2009 influenza A (H1N1) virus transmission in these settings. In the absence of clear scientific data, the interim recommendations below have been developed on the basis of public health judgment, the historical use of facemasks and respirators in other settings for preventing transmission of influenza and other respiratory viruses, and on current information on the spread and severity of the 2009 influenza A (H1N1) virus.
Like I said, the West didn't bother actually studying the efficacy of masks until this year.

>>12110072
kek. unironically out of "habit". it's certainly not to protect against the coof. do you actually think that's the same thing? just seeing how many levels of idiocy we're "operating" on here

>>12109841
The US has been using the TSA for 19 years despite the fact it is proven the TSA is not effective at stopping terrorists. It's security theater to soothe normies

>>12110090
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30229968/
Stop lying.

>>12110079
your studies did not show anything relating to covid-19, you're just sperging about droplets and concluding the world needs to wear New Normal Masks or we're all gonna die. and the hairdresser "study" is buzzfeed tier

>>12109796
yes i'm convinced that it is placebo

i've seen so many people wearing it wrong and lashing out at me and politicizing it and saying that i wanna look like michael jackson and comparing it to the plague doctor mask and denying germ theory that i've got PTSD

>>12110094
Wait, are you trying to prove masks work and should have been recommended all along!?

>It was found that a 50% compliance in donning the device resulted in a significant (at least 50% prevalence and 20% cumulative incidence) reduction in risk for fitted and unfitted N95 respirators, high-filtration surgical masks, and both low-filtration and high-filtration pediatric masks. An 80% compliance rate essentially eliminated the influenza outbreak. The results of the present study, as well as the application of the model to related influenza scenarios, are potentially useful to public health officials in decisions involving resource allocation or education strategies.

>>12110096
>your studies did not show anything relating to covid-19
Coronavirus isn't related to SARS-CoV-2?

>>12110101
If they're so effective, then why did the CDC lie to everyone and say that nobody needed them?

>>12110108
Because masks are so effective that they wanted to make sure there were enough for health care workers.

>>12110096
>sperging about droplets
AKA the main method of transmission?

like what you want the china virus to be big boned and change the shape of the droplet?

kys

>>12109914
That's the US for you, remember last elections?

>>12109796
it helps block aerosols and laminar flow from breathing/talking/coughing.
But this is extremely easy to find on any search engine, so you are either utterly retarded or baiting.

>>12110110
So they just wanted to let regular people get sick and die?

>>12109823
did not expect the math board to be this retarded

>>12109927
>NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST CALL MY UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIM RETARDED

>>12110115
I would assume a health care worker is more at risk dealing with sick people and all.

>>12109927
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

>>12110110
peace be upon them

>>12110127
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
Especially since cloth masks are penetrated by 97% of particles and may increase infection risk by retaining moisture or repeated use. Good thing healthcare workers stocked up on the good masks while the plebs were forced to use rags to cover their faces.

>>12110130
YASSSSSSSSSSSSS

>>12110133
There's no shortage of surgical masks now. Respirators are a different story.

>>12110140
Then why are people still wearing cloth mask?

>>12110143
Beats me. In my office, everyone made the switch from cloth to surgical masks over a month ago, though I think it was more for convenience and comfort than for efficacy.

So, what's the worst conspiracy theory on the masks?

>>12110155
traps CO2 decreasing your IQ

>>12109926
>>12109926
or we're not a boy like you, and aren't terribly insecure and frightened of maturity, so we're willing to take reasonable actions on reasonable rationale due to the potential benefit to the community and the incredibly low impact doing so carries

but you're the smart one

>>12110159
Ohh yeah, that one. Literally made me lose braincells.

>>12109917
That's the least common reason. Talk to some actual Japanese people.

>>12109986
>Chinese
you don't even know where you are
shut the fuck up

>>12110056
>healthy people will still be fine
ostrich

>>12109957
You're mentally ill. You need to go to /pol. You also need take a sharp needle and jam it in your ear.

>>12110073
keep your body fluids, bacteria, and viruses off my body
fuck you're arrogant

>>12109796
no?

>>12110021
They experienced significantly more deaths and people voluntarily stayed at home as much as possible.

>>12110133
are you one of those morons who compares virus particle size to mask opening size and then concludes the mask couldn't block the particle?
even when the method of transmission is not occurring at particle sizes?

>>12110167
i learned that from my japanese teacher you dumb faggot

>>12109796
It's the ultimate NPC identifier. It's absolutely useless and countries like Sweden that had no mask or lockdown mandates are doing just fine.

>>12110309
>doing just fine
Deathrate says otherwise.

>>12109796

>>12110309
It was in line with or significantly less than other nations where useless masking and lockdowns were mandated.

>>12110321
meant for
>>12110316

>>12110178
*initially

>>12110151
Sounds like your office is pretty gay if everyone is wearing a mask

>>12110099
If that really gave you PTSD you are more pathetic than the tumblrtweens who got ptsd from having their parents yell at them.

>>12110118
> muh science and math makes me smart and have the right political and ethical opinions

you have to go back

>>12110317

>>12110344
This isn't 2011 anymore

>>12110175
Make me. That's right, you literally can't unless you get the big daddy world government to save you. You're powerless which is why you gravitate towards people in positions of authority to make the tough decisions for you.

>>12110321
>>12110325
Your talking points are months old.

>>12110345
>go back
projection, the post

>>12110317
Look ma, I made up numbers again!

>>12109841
The Japanese would literally kill themselves if ordered to. Not a very good example anon.

>>12110378
same goes for maga-idiots

>>12109900

70 papers
https://threader.app/thread/1279144399897866248

>>12109926
>>12110360
>big daddy world government
low iq phrase

>>12110386
Give me one example of a magatard Allah ackbaring their plane because a superior ordered them to.

Jesus christ all these schizos are making my head hurt. Hope you don't get the virus.

>>12110413
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&data=deaths&location=Argentina&location=Brazil&location=Colombia&location=India&location=Mexico&location=Peru&location=Russia&location=South+Africa&location=Spain&location=US

>>12110418
Trump/GOP, the leading cause of death in America.

>>12109914
Trumpism is a death cult.
Wearing a mask is a sign you are not a member of the cult. When trump fanatics see large numbers of people wearing the mask, it reminds them their death cult is smaller than they'd like it to be. This enrages, makes them illogical and irrational. Possibly they become irrational and illogical enough to not see the benefits to wearing a mask in public.

>>12110418
You have brain damage

>>12109796
Why do you faggots disregard the psychological impact something as simple as this has? Are you really that autistic?

Of course the mask won't work when faced a real threat. They are not intended to filter shit, they are intended to give you some protection, that means like 5% less chance of transmission. The thing is, wearing a mask is synergic with other practices, like washing hands, keeping distance, etc. The mask tells you what person doesn't give a fuck about any measure at all, and THOSE people are the actual risk. Of course people who don't give a shit and expose themselves unnecessarily are more likely to carry the virus. Masks are not a shield, they are a beacon.

>>12110432
>oh noes, real data

>>12109811
You will never find such information. Not everything out there is feasible to study. You can't treat anything written in the medical field like the stuff you find in physics, engineering, etc. Even the so praised meta-analysis are built from hundreds of shitty busywork studies only parroting what an authority said. Evidence Based Medicine and the Publisher cabal killed science.

>>12110435
>they are intended to give you some protection
n95 :
Inhales are filtered by mask walls, valve is closed.
Exhales leave through the open valve unfiltered.

surgical mask :
both inhaling and exhaling are filtered by mask walls

yes masks work
http://ftp.iza.org/dp13319.pdf


- surgical mask will filter exhales
- n95 mask without valve will filter both exhales and inhales
- n95 mask with valve will filter only inhales

>>12110435
>wearing a mask is synergic with other practices, like washing hands, keeping distance, etc.
This is so untrue. People unironically think that wearing masks allows them to circumvent the social distancing rules. I have seen countless examples of this. Some of the biggest offenders are airlines and any sort of public transportation.

>>12110435
Even if the numbers your saying were true, the mentally ill people saying they're a psychological tool make it sound like it's a massive plan to take individualism or implant communism, they're legally retarded.

>>12110445
I'm not saying the masks don't help at all, but that paper sounds like a load of bullshit. The effects of masks would start to be visible a week after they are introduced, not immediately. If you read a paper that claims in its conclusions that something was caused due to something else by simply comparing shit, you can use that to wipe your ass next time you go to the toilet.

>>12110447
You can blame that on america's propaganda machine, you don't see that bullshit anywhere else in the world. At least in El Salvador, a third world shithole where I live, people comply with wearing masks on their own. They are actually worried about their health, but they don't know what exactly to do about it, they don't know how to make masks or what materials to make them from because the idiots at the WHO never gave contingency plans or guidelines for this, so they still get infected. Of course my corrupt populist government couldnt care less and actively opposes giving proper equipment to doctors, of which about 60 are already dead.

>>12110042
What a fucking shill

>>12110457
>that paper sounds like a load of bullshit.
feel free to submit yours

>>12110530
Will you pay me for it?

>>12110533
no thanks, already have one

It's a cold virus, niggers, it doesn't matter

Am I the only one noticing that US deaths haven't increased much since the first 2 months when everyone was dying in NY/NJ

It feels like they are forcing the meme virus to deflect from the fact that NY fucked up so bad

>>12110642
sure bud

>>12110655
>US deaths haven't increased much
190,000 dead, retard

>>12110655
>deaths haven't increased much
found the exclusively fox news viewer
topkek

>>12110661
looks like a bad flu season to me

>>12110661
ok, now post something more recent

>>12109796
How the fuck is it not self-evident that masks have an impact?

>>12110689
Functional brain cells.

>>12110684
why?

>>12110684
no u

>>12110694
Yes, conspiritards and q-niggers are famous for them

>>12109796

I don't want to go political, although the name I will mention is politically charged. Rather, I want to indicate a civil exchange which took place, and which seems to me to make sense. The punchline is: wear masks, be nice, they help just a bit, but not that much.

A few weeks ago, on the Glenn Beck radio program (Beck is a known American conservative political voice), Beck sought a calm-down, just-the facts discussion on masks. He had on two doctors who both ultimately encouraged mask-wearing, although one was more critical of various types and efficacy, all of which is pretty old news for the informed at the moment, I bet. The takeaway was that masks do help, but only marginally, and in that sense aren't a "placebo" in the sense that the OP means (I accept that they have a real, marginal effect when donned en masse, let us await later studies).

"Orthogonal" to this (I am abusing a diagnostic word somewhat) is the social norm around masks which has rapidly obtained. On the same program, Beck bemoaned the inhumanity around same, e.g. businesses enforcing hard no-exception rules on masks. Now that I think of it, I've never understood why an able-bodied, middle-aged adult without obvious respiratory issues can't tolerate a mask. Yes some are defying/fibbing/non-conforming but I expect there's a real basis behind this. Someone please let me know/ Asthma? other? The irony here would be someone who has trouble breathing not wearing something which gives them trouble breathing, and then as a result they catch an infection which gives them more trouble breathing.

I work in a grocery store and I still periodically see one or two conscientous regulars with the full gas-mask apparatus, a la this: >>12109805. I assume good faith that they have serious problems and aren't fucking around. I can still remember the mid-march panic, though I'm blogposting and long-winded at this point.

>>12109823
You can use anything for a mask because politics isn't about finding solutions, it's about stretching time till someone else finds one.

>>12110824
Those conscientious regulars are trolling you. Masks are brain dead. Corona is a sham. They walked away with another trillion dollars and the sheep held their breath. It is okay because you have all sucked longer cocks than murder flu. Wear the face diaper and eat shit.

>>12110824
No one, absolutely-fucking-no one gets dyspnea over wearing masks. People find them hot and uncomfortable, but absolutely nobody is getting harmed from wearing the shit.

People with asthma SHOULD wear masks often to protect from the actual allergens that fuck up their bronchia.

Seriously, people who don't wear masks are simply negligent. If you have respiratory problems you shouldn't even risk being outside.

>>12110872

bad faith post.

>>12110897

apparent good-faith post albeit with minimal justification.

>>12110902
>with minimal justification
The same could be said for seatbelts and sunscreen.

>>12110290
Woah is this an online course?

>>12109796

Surgical-tier masks (and the cloths below them) primarily serve to protect OTHERS from YOUR particles. When everyone collectively adheres to wearing such masks, it's functionally the same as everyone having a "real mask" like that in >>12109805, in terms of preventing COVID transmission.

>>12110360
I'm going to start going around with a spray bottle full of a hydrogen peroxide solution to better accommodate no-maskers. Anytime they say anything I'll disinfect the air between us since they can't be responsible for their bodily fluids and demand that I do it for them.

>>12111533
do cuck muzzles protect you from getting your nose broken now?

>>12111533

>>12109796
In the immunization, there maybe also matter how many pathogens, not if one specimen.

Also it's uber cool to wear.

>>12111553
>>12111555
Hey man, you fags are the ones that want me to be responsible for your actions and to act on those responsibilities effectively. If a little disinfectant is too much for babby to handle then quite your whining and take responsibility for yourself and if you can't then wear a mask or start swinging. I'm pretty sure your strongest internet-tough-guy punch wouldn't be able to break a toddlers nose so I'm not really concerned.

People should wear these regardless of covid just to contain their shitty breath smell.

>>12111575
Based. Amerifats btfo.

>>12111568
>Hey man, you fags are the ones that want me to be responsible for your actions and to act on those responsibilities effectively.
they literally never even hinted at that, im sure youre old enough that you arent the hall monitor anymore, so let it fucking go
they dont think disinfectant is "too much for babby to handle" they think its a waste of time you mong
youre the one acting like the sniffles are gonna kill us all and its everyones responsibility to shut down their own businesses and starve for the sake of the pussies among us

>and take responsibility for yourself and if you can't then wear a mask or start swinging
how fucking stupid are you actually?
theyve already taken responsibility for themselves, youre now demanding they take responsibility for everyone else too

>>12111876
>they literally never even hinted at that
>>12110360
>Make me
Great reading comprehension, bro. Soon you'll be ready for the Hardy Boys.

>theyve already taken responsibility for themselves
They have not. That's the point. If they want to spew sputum all over the place during a pandemic and they want me to take responsibility for their actions then that's exactly what I'll do.

Are you afraid of breathing a little hydrogen peroxide? Trump approves of using disinfectant to fight the spread of the virus and even said it would be nice if you could disinfect your body.

>>12110418
Are all those other countries in the habit of classifying every death where the decease passes a PCR test as a coronavirus death?

>>12110897
>but absolutely nobody is getting harmed from wearing the shit
How do you know this? Feeling uncomfortable is reliably a sign of bodily harm, even if just a small amount

>>12110904
You're saying there is minimal justification that seatbelts prevent accident deaths and that sunscreen prevents sunburn / skin cancer?

Masks are effective against droplet infections, like coronavirus.

>>12111989
Based on what

Of course it is effective. No a mask doesn't reliably protect you from infection. And no, it doesnt protect others from infecting you either. But it clearly limits how far your aerosols spread. And that causes on average, when the majority is wearing masks, lower chances of infection. And it doesn't have to stop most infectionsm If it only stops a third of infections from happening, then that's already very good when you're dealing with exponential-type growth.

>>12112019
>lower chances of infection
what number?

The masks aren't supposed to filter the virus and nobody claims they could keep you perfectly safe, if you used them correcrly or not. The most retarded thing is when people say the masks aren't helpful because nobody disinfects/disposes of them correctly anyways. All that shit doesn't fucking matter. Pic related is literally all the mask needs to do to reduce infecrion rates.

>>12112034
It needs to prevent air temperature from increasing directly in front of your mouth and instead make it increase near your forehead?

>>12112034
Because it focuses you chi better?

>>12112021
Science is not just about pure brute forxe Empiricism. Yea it's hard to get a proper study done quickly on subtle effects like that which are hard to emulate in small trials. But guess what, if there is a reasonable explanaion as to why they should be effective then the two hypothesis
masks are effective
masks are not effective
are equally strong. In other words I might as well ask you for a study which disproves the effectiveness of masks.

>>12112035
It weakens the air flow you idiot, and you dont need the picture to see that, just hold your hand out in front of your face and blow with vs without a mask.

>>12112042
You can run an informal study by looking at states/places with mask orders and noticing that the date of the order doesn't seem to correspond with anything particular on the graph.
If it were actually demonstrated that masks lower chances of infection, there would be a specific number you could put to it.

>>12112048
The same amount of air is leaving your mouth whether or not the mask is there. It might reduce the speed at which it leaves, but I don't see why that would lead to reduced infection rates

>>12112058
Nobody is addressing the elephant in the room which is that proper ventilation is more important than wearing masks.

>>12109796
Everyone who doesn't wear a mask is essentially declaring, "I don't give a duck if I get other people killed." It's basically manslaughter by COVID19.

>>12112072
*Everyone who doesn't wear at least two masks
You can still pass the virus through one

>>12112072
Everyone who wasn't kind to Elliot Rodger was essentially declaring "I don't give a fuck if this guy goes on a shooting spree." It's basically manslaughter by incel.

>>12112034
Nice image. So you infect people next to you instead of those in front of you. Well done!

>>12112085
>It's basically manslaughter by incel.
>man

>>12112108
This. These images are very disingenuous because there's no front view. If you could face the man directly, you would see the particles escaping from the sides.

>>12112137
I don't understand what people think is happening in that pic. Do they think the air is just being absorbed into the mask?

>>12112143
Most people have really shitty 3D visualization abilities. This is kind of a contentious issue too because the data suggests a lot of women literally don't have this ability.

>>12109823
This.

>>12110424
Not everyone anti-mask is an alt-right nazi but you are right that people are getting upset over it mainly for political reasons.

>>12109841
Careful man, next you'll be saying shit like powdered rhinoceros horn is a placebo.

>>12112143
>Do they think the air is just being absorbed into the mask?
Air is escaping, many of the droplets are not, and those that are aren't traveling as far.

>>12112353
They're not traveling as far, so they're more highly concentrated in the area that you were just in?

>>12110413
does attending church during a pandemic count?
what's the death count at now, 200,000?

>>12112424
>highly concentrated
highly concentrated ON THE MASK

those droplets that make through the mask are expelled with much less force and fall faster on the floor

it depends on the fitting of the mask also hence some types of masks are banned in some places cause the lawmaking people did their homework

>>12112479
The horizontal speed of the particle doesn't effect the amount of time it takes to fall to the floor, this is basic physics

>>12112492
This virus is special. It has wings so horizontal movement provides lift. Plus everyone knows that Corona was the favorite beer of the Wright Brothers.

>>12112424
>more highly concentrated in the area that you were just in
On the mask and on the ground. Don't lick the floor and your shoes and you should be all right.

>>12112722
Whereas if you aren't wearing a mask, the virus flies around in the air forever

>>12112734
Sure. We all know if we throw a ball it stays in the air forever.

>>12112734
Anon, a droplet falling straight to the ground has little chance of hitting you in the face. A droplet with horizontal momentum is a different story.

>>12112740
>why yes, I breathe at escape velocity

>>12112747
Maybe if our faces are like 6 inches apart. What about a droplet flying out of the top of your mask?

>>12112751
>Maybe if our faces are like 6 inches apart.
Try 6-10 feet.

>>12112749
what roids was he taking? what was available back then?

>>12112700
ACCURATE

>>12112759
Tried it, nothing happened.
You can do this experiment yourself. Stand 10 feet away from a sheet of paper at face value and talk to it. See how many droplets collect.

>>12112700
should just replace the cartoon

>>12112798
cartoon looks clearer

>>12112700

>>12112798
why do they always do this shit

>>12112771
Sure anon, and the air you're breathing has 0% humidity, otherwise you'd be wet! Great experiment.

>>12112818
>america is the only place where people don't like masks
you realize this is a propagandistic talking point and not an actual fact
the largest anti-mask protests have been outside the US

>>12112827
I'd say it's on an equal scientific footing with
>Look, when you wear a mask, the temperature in front of your face changes less! Also, people wear masks in Japan! Therefore masks stop infections

>>12112829
I am anti-Trump but I feel like the mask thing is just being used to attack Trump."not wearing a mask means you support Trump" that kind of thing.

>>12112833
What in the world are you talking about? We're talking about prevention of droplet spread by masks. There's enough videos of it and research behind it to suggest that, what a shocker, putting material in front of your face limits the spread of droplets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2azcn7MqOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkB0k81oNiI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tp0zB904Mc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UASi5OUv9Pg

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

>>12112848
Yeah, it's weird that it got politicized. On the other hand, I am pro-trump this year (was not in 2016), but I was opposed to masks from the beginning before Trump gave any indication one way or another, so maybe there's something deeper going on

>>12112850
What's the graph of droplet count versus likelihood of being infected

>>12112854
The mask thing is a fetish that conveys submission as opposed to a fetish like a crown that coneys authority.

>>12112866
I suppose that might be true on some psychological level. More concretely, I think there's an individualist/collectivist aspect

>>12109796
>this shit is no better than a placebo, right?
not just that, it's a nocebo. By wearing a face mask to protect others you are operating under the assumption that you're probably infected, either consciously or not, making you more likely to experience symptoms

Can somebody explain this, please?
https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/year/2017/tradeflow/Imports/partner/WLD/nomen/h5/product/300215
This is from 3 years ago, and there's data for later years as well. I thought COVID was only discovered in October.

>>12112886
We're literally all just test subjects for experiments that we never consented to

>>12112871
Absolutely. Leftists believe in collectivism hence why they are trying to force this with the "save others" "we're all in this together" communist-lite crap. And I say that as a leftist. If there was actually a need for it as in the virus was actually not just some fucking flu I'd support it but right now there is not much real danger and they are just using it to push their ideology.

>>12112886
Are you talking about
>HS Classification Reference based on Covid-19 medical supplies list 2nd edition, prepared by World Customs Organization (WCO) and World Health Organization (WHO)
it's a dynamically generated webpage, so updating the footer would retroactively update old pages
Frustratingly, Wayback machine only goes back to Sept 2 2020 on this page

>>12112886
Is this abnormal though? What about the 10 years before that? Anyway of course at least someone in the government knew that a coronavirus could spread one day.

>>12112894
Seems about right. And after having learned about "creeping Fabian socialism" and thinking over general idea of incremental progress, I realized that those of us on the opposite side need to fight against every little bit, no matter how trivial-seeming

>>12112894
The leftist adoption of collectivism also stem from feelings of inferiority and self-esteem issues.

>>12112903
>>12112905
As I said I'm left wing, I'm okay with high taxes to pay for social programs (don't kill me /sci/) but curtailing individual freedoms is too far for me. If fighting this means supporting Trump then so be it. There is nothing more valuable than your freedom.

>>12112915
Nah /sci/ seems pretty even-handed politically, at least relative to /pol/ if not the rest of the internet. I'm not a total ancap, I can get behind taxes being used for say roads and libraries. But I also think that state social programs tend towards bloat and inefficiency, and that people who rely on them for too long seem to maintain harmful life patterns

>>12112931
I agree.

>>12112894
>>12112905
The thing is, my grandfather was a commie because the bosses way back used to treat human beings worse then animals. It was a perfectly natural reaction to the circumstances. One would have to actively wish misery upon oneself to support capitalism in such circumstances.

But these days it's not about that. Digging coal underground for decades with constant fear of death and no protective equipment, then dying a slow painful death of blacklung is hard. Life today is incomparably easier. It's clearly all pathetic subversion from losers. My grandfather would be disgusted at them hijacking communism. What's incredible is now good a job has been done on pampered weaklings that they think they're living in some horrifying dystopia. If they get the revolution they want, they'll find out what that really means for the weak.

>>12112915
>covidists for trump
KEK

gratz on making the most worthless and retarded post

>>12112866
ah yes whenever i see people wearing masks i totally think about sex

>>12112982
"fetish" has a non-sexual meaning as well. A crown is 100% a fetish

>>12110077
We're all wearing N-95's in the hospital now but that's more due to the fact that masks do little for ventilators/aerosolizing procedures and everybody in an operating room is being either intubated or coming in ventilated. But let's be real, everybody coming into a procedure has been COVID tested, usually twice.

>>12110108
They recommended leaving it to us healthcare workers because they didn't expect you to be a retard and go infect yourself

>>12109796
It's a political uniform.

>>12112858
I doubt that's known, but you'd still like to keep the infective dose as low as possible. The latency period for SARS-CoV-2 (the time to enter a cell, replicate, and burst the cell) is estimated at three days. So let's say you inhale 100 viral particles, and every one manages to enter a cell. Let's also say the burst size is 100 per cell. So at three days, you'll hatch 10k viral particles, and the cycle will repeat. On the other hand, if you manage to inhale a decent droplet spray, you can immediately be infected with over a million viral particles. In both cases, you're infected, but you'd much rather be the person with 10k viral particles at day three than the person with over a million right off the bat. SARS-CoV-2 seems to replicate quite slowly, that's probably why the inoculation period can be so long (over 14 days), and possibly why there's so many mild infections. Masks are even tied to lower case severity. If the initial infective dose is low, your immune system has plenty of time to mount a response. A higher initial dose is when more serious infections and cytokine storms become a factor.

>>12109926
yes
same mentality applies to vaccines and jesus

>>12112985
>A crown is 100% a fetish
KEK
fetish as in the crown of thorns might be a "fetish"? or are you literally saying that any crown is fetish?

like do you even have any idea of what you're talking about you fuacken retard

fetish is this shit leftards have for redefining words. even if the act of wearing a crown or the crown itself represented a "fetish" (which it can't be. it is as mortal and unmystical as it can be) no one even uses that word in this context anymore. and mere "submission" doesn't help one bit because that isn't sexual, even sexual submission isn't intrinsically sexual 'cause that shit literally doesn't do anything for most people. it is all in your head.

now if you're talking about for example a retard who USED to live a couple of blocks from my home, USED because he insisted in opening his bar and got covided after 3 long painful weeks then yeah that absolutely gets me rock hard. it totally is a fetish that i have ngl

>>12113053
Fetish has a non-sexual meaning as well. You are embarrassing yourself pretty spectacularly right now.

>>12113053
>Fetish: 1. Something which is believed to possess, contain, or cause spiritual or magical powers; an amulet or a talisman. [from the early 17th c.]
Come on bro, you have access to the internet, you have no excuse for this kind of ignorance.

>>12109926
>they think being a good boy for the big daddy world government will save them.
they think they're saving themselves. it's the most self-efficant solution out there

>>12113059
>You are embarrassing yourself pretty spectacularly right now.
no u

you could only casually say something like "i have a fetish for posting shit on 4chan". that would make perfect sense. now saying "i have a fetish for wearing medical masks/crown" or "i have a fetish for making other people wear medical masks" is retardation. it can't even make any sense.

>>12113071
>science is magic
that's it. i'm leaving this site of fucking retards.

>>12113078
It's not "a fetish for a crown". It's "the crown IS a fetish". When speaking of a crown the fetish is an object, not a proclivity.
You have no excuse twice over: >>12113071

>>12113081
>>>hurr durr leftists are redefining words
>>the word is from the early 17th century
>that's it, I'm rage quitting!
toodles retard

>>12110093
And yet since the founding of the TSA the number of terrorist attacks originating from domestic airports has dropped to zero. They've been extremely effective.

>>12113099
You mean since the passengers of the fourth aircraft decided they would no longer comply with the hijackers? Or, if you're conspiratorially minded, since the government shot down that jet?

Either way, the airplane hijacking problem was solved on the morning of 9/11/2001 and it had jack shit to do with the TSA.

>>12113081
tbf, if you don't know how it works science is *indistinguishable from magic. It all boils down to which preacher preaches the loudest.

most of the IFLS crowd screeching about masks wouldn't know how to design an experiment or read a technical paper if their life depended on it.

>>12112072
I'd sneeze an extra large piece of snot on you just for being such a faggot.

>>12113110
0 attacks = 100% effectivenss. Don't be mad just because they search sandniggers like yourself five times.

>>12113128
I have a tiger repelling rock to sell you. 100% reliable, I've never been attacked by a tiger.

>>12113087
>>the word is from the early 17th century
yes and it means magical spell, casting a magical spell, enchanting words and objects. stop trying to redefine it bro

>>12113084
no wait a fucking minute...

are you literally saying mask ppl literally believe they have mystical powers cause they got a mask to "send" the corona away AYY LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

i was seriously trying to understand you. i thought you took the "kings are gods" thingy a bit too far but bro like seriously you're absolutely crazy like holy shit

>>12113137
>A fetish (derived from the French fétiche; which comes from the Portuguese feitiço; and this in turn from Latin facticius, "artificial" and facere, "to make") is an object believed to have supernatural powers, or in particular, a human-made object that has power over others. Essentially, fetishism is the attribution of inherent value, or powers, to an object.

>>12113137
>>no wait a fucking minute...
>are you literally saying
No, that's the other anon. I'm just laughing at you for assuming that "fetish" means "sexual fetish" because you're uncultured borderline illiterate swine.

>>12113131
The dumbest and most inaccurate analogy you could have written down. Hijackings and other attacks were rather common before the introduction of the TSA and its measures. If you want to go with your retarded garbage then it should go like this: in the past I was attacked by Tigers a lot, but ever since I got this spray the attacks have stopped.

>>12113146
>I'm just laughing at you for assuming that "fetish" means "sexual fetish"
cause anon said it himself
>The mask thing is a fetish that conveys submission as opposed to a fetish like a crown that coneys authority.
masks are just a type of kink sex that no one understands, only him. he said it himself

>>12113150
>The dumbest and most inaccurate analogy you could have written down. Hijackings and other attacks were rather common before the introduction of the TSA and its measures.
Because hijackers didn't crash planes before that day. As soon as the passengers of the fourth plane learned that hijackers crash planes into buildings, they refused to comply and hijacking airplanes has never worked since that hour.

Boot licking retard.

>>12113154
>The mask thing is a fetish that conveys submission as opposed to a fetish like a crown that coneys authority.
>masks are just a type of kink sex that no one understands, only him. he said it himself
No allusions to sexuality exist in that comment, retard.
inb4
>hurr durr submission is sexual
Absolute idiot.

>>12113160
>>hurr durr submission is sexual
yeah he only left me with that

if you literally think masks are some kind of enchanting magic then you're even more of a lunatic holy fucking shit. i'm so so sorry i didn't assume that from the start

>>12113081
Who claimed that?

>>12113168
Masks are an enchanting magic in the same sense that the word "nigger" is enchanting magic.

>>12113205
haha you think you're clever at the same time you're threatened by knowledge so you try to equate that to mysticism when no connection can possibly exist.

bro that's so hilarious. no wonder the west got demolished by corona, that's a whole new level of crazy

>>12113280
When did I say I was threatened by knowledge? Are you projecting? And do you understand what makes "nigger" enchanting magic?

>>12113339
>When did I say I was threatened by knowledge?
masks won't go away just because you disregard them.

>do you understand what makes "nigger" enchanting magic?
haha going by the insane line of thought that every random thing is "submission"? and that you can redefine 17th century "fetish" so that it can also mean submission or authority? first no one can actually be a nigger cause niggers don't exist anymore. and if you were a nigger you could at least rebel against your master. now, if you're an anti-masker you first need to brainwash whoever it is that you think your keepers are into thinking that you're their slave (they have no idea), and that would probably require you to refute their literature as well. so good luck. you have a lot of work to do for now, my nigger.

>>12113397
>masks won't go away just because you disregard them
When did I say they would?
>haha going by the insane line of thought that every random thing is "submission"? and that you can redefine 17th century "fetish" so that it can also mean submission or authority?
When did anyone say either of those things?
> first no one can actually be a nigger cause niggers don't exist anymore
I wish that were true, but sadly you're just demonstrating your ching-chongity

Right, I figured the point had been lost you. "Nigger" is enchanting magic here in the states because if you say it loud enough, you will instantly command everybody's attention. If you say it on a public enough platform, your life is instantly fucked. You don't even need to say anything hateful. You could say "I love niggers" and people would react like you hate black people, when that's the direct opposite of what you said. It's an irrational reaction caused by centuries of either oppression followed by a century of social engineering. It's one of the closest things to "magic" that exists. And in a similar way, the symbolism of masks is very psychologically powerful -- which, for fun, I'm calling magic

>>12113431
>When did anyone say either of those things?
>>12112866

>say it loud enough, you will instantly command everybody's attention
well it is too bad i come from a reality where no one cared about masks at all until the bodies started pilling up at the morgue

you're right that i did say it out loud though

>>12113205
Agreed

>>12112034
>all the mask needs
It's not as if anyone will walk past or behind him at some point. Wind and other air movement is just a conspiracy theory.

>>12113488
>It's not as if anyone will walk past or behind him at some point.
So? If it reduces total droplet output by 95%, that person will still encounter far fewer droplets than they would have otherwise.

>>12113008
>I doubt that's known
Well it would be pretty relevant. If the curve could be anything, then the amount of decreased risk of infection could be anything as well, and it would be possible that masks aren't helpful enough to warrant asking everybody to use them all the time. We can assume it's an increasing curve, definitely concave since the x-axis is virtually unlimited whereas the y-axis tops out at 100%, and so it's very possible that even a 95% decrease in droplets (talking to you too, >>12113520) doesn't lead to any meaningful decrease in infection rates

>>12109796
you're an idiot

>>12113533
I would think reducing the risk of serious infection would be just as relevant as preventing infection altogether, and infection severity is clearly tied to initial infectious dose.

>>12113540
What's the curve? And if so, wouldn't wearing a mask make it more likely that you get a bad case, since you're constantly inhaling viruses?

>>12113546
I already gave you an example, did you read anything I wrote? You already have some answers.

>>12113552
I don't know which posts are yours

>>12109918
>all about cloth facemasks

not the same as surgical you fucking faggot

>>12113556
This >>12113008. People are obsessed with preventing infection altogether, which masks may or may not do. They're not taking into account initial infectious dose and the long latency period. The lower the initial dose, the less risk of serious infection because you're giving the immune system a chance to respond before there's serious damage, and masks provide a barrier to the major transmission route. There's a reason no one shows symptoms prior to three days, it takes that long for the virus to start bursting cells, and there's a reason many don't show any symptoms for a week or more, it takes a while for the number of viral particles to build up if the initial dose was low.

>>12113558
>faggot
Why the homophobia?

>>12113565
The only two numbers you have are "three day latency" and "fourteen day 'inoculation' period" (a rare outlier length of time, the mean time being 6 days). What I'd like to see are graphs of initial infection amount against likelihood of contracting Covid and against severity of symptoms for those who do.

>>12113578
be calm my little faggot, the scary words can't hurt you

>>12113583
>the mean time being 6 days
Which would be two latency cycles. If you need graphs to show you that a lower initial dose that could buy you an extra week for your immune system to respond is beneficial, then I don't know what to tell you. That should be common sense.

>>12109796
If the virus was actually dangerous to people under 80 I might take this debate seriously but seeing it really is just a flu to most, yeah the masks are pointless and are being used for political purposes now.

>>12113588
"extra week" is something you're pulling out of your ass
If this is actually a scientific matter there should be at least one set of graphable data involved

>>12113626
>"extra week" is something you're pulling out of your ass
Nope.

Initial infective dose / day 4 / day 7

1,000 / 100,000 / 10,000,000
1,000,000 / 100,000,000 / 10,000,000,000

The person inhaling 1k virus particles won't exceed the infective dose of the person inhaling 1 million virus particles until the end of the second latency cycle.

Also, found this: https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa644

"Noncontact transmission was found in 66.7% (10/15) of exposed naive hamsters. Surgical mask partition for challenged index or naive hamsters significantly reduced transmission to 25% (6/24, P = .018). Surgical mask partition for challenged index hamsters significantly reduced transmission to only 16.7% (2/12, P = .019) of exposed naive hamsters. Unlike the severe manifestations of challenged hamsters, infected naive hamsters had lower clinical scores, milder histopathological changes, and lower viral nucleocapsid antigen expression in respiratory tract tissues."

Lower infection rate, less severe infections.

>>12113650
You're pulling "grows by 10x every day" out of your ass and deriving "7 days" as a corollary

>>12113621
Tell me about the political purpose of masks outside of the US. Why does everyone else in the world wear them with complete compliance and no political factions arise from it?

Or rather, just tell me why americans are absolute retards?

>>12113673
>Why does everyone else in the world wear them with complete compliance
That's not true at all, the biggest anti-mask protests have happened outside the US. You've fallen for a fake talking point

>>12113672
>You're pulling "grows by 10x every day" out of your ass
Estimated burst rate is 100, one week is 7 days. No comment on the reduced severity in animals? That's what you wanted, and you don't even comment on it.

https://link.springer.com/
article/10.1007/s11606-
020-06067-8

>A systematic review of earlier studies, before facial masking was widely practiced, placed the proportion of asymptomatic infection with SARS-CoV-2 at 15%.35 A more recent narrative review of 16 different studies estimated the rate of asymptomatic infection at 40–45%.

>Closed settings, such as cruise ships, can be particularly illustrative when examining phenotypes associated with SARS-CoV-2. For example, one of the earliest estimates of the rate of asymptomatic infection due to SARS-CoV-2 was in the 20% range from a report of a COVID-19 outbreak on the Diamond Princess cruise ship.37 In a more recent report from a different cruise ship outbreak, all passengers were issued surgical masks and all staff provided N95 masks after the initial case of COVID-19 on the ship was detected.38 In this closed setting with masking, where 128 of 217 passengers and staff eventually tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 via RT-PCR, the majority of infected patients on the ship (81%) remained asymptomatic,38 compared with 18% in the cruise ship outbreak without masking.37

>A report from a pediatric hemodialysis unit in Indiana, where all patients and staff were masked, demonstrated that staff rapidly developed antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 after exposure to a single symptomatic patient with COVID-19. In the setting of masking, however, none of the new infections was symptomatic.39 And in a recent outbreak in a seafood processing plant in Oregon where all workers were issued masks each day at work, the rate of asymptomatic infection among the 124 infected was 95%.40, 41 An outbreak in a Tyson chicken plant in Arkansas with masking also showed a 95% asymptomatic rate of infection.42

>>12113672
>>12113682
Essentially, wearing a mask leads to an exceptional amount of cases being asymptomatic, aka, reduced severity.

>>12113682
>No comment on the reduced severity in animals?
Sure, the experiment applies to hamsters living in highly close quarters for at least four days straight, not so much to me walking by a guy on the street

>>12113691
Also, weren't you questioning viral load caused by masks making the person sicker? Doesn't seem to hold true for hamsters trapped in an enclosed environment or all the asymptomatic people who wore masks.

>>12109796
If no one but you wore a mask, then yeah because people breathing who have it would hit your mask with 1000s times more virus particles, some will always get through the mask, thousands times more is a much more likely to infect you. Plus they could infect you though the mucus membrane of your eyes.

If other people are wearing masks, their not only does the mask filter some of the virus particles out. But their breath is no longer being projected straight at your face, it moves up and barely travels forward, other people wearing masks would significantly reduce the amount of virus particles you’re exposed to.

Wearing a mask on top of that filters out some of the particles that do make it to you (still some will make it through)

>>12113698
It's not an enclosing mask, it's just between the two cages

>>12113705
The cages were placed in a freaking isolator. At this point I have to think you were never interested in an honest debate. I've shown you masks block a significant portion of droplets, that masks directly block coronavirus particles, that masks reduced infection rate and severity in hamsters, that masks correlate with reduced infection severity in people, and that increased viral load from masks is apparently not a risk. The evidence is clear.

>>12113718
Does the isolator not circulate air in and out of the cages?

>>12113720
Dude, come on. They were placed next to the infected mice with directional airflow and exposed to a constant stream of infectious air for a week straight. Not to mention, oh yeah, the humans who not only didn't get worse due to masks, but actually had milder cases.

>>12113733
>They were placed next to the infected mice with directional airflow and exposed to a constant stream of infectious air for a week straight.
Yeah there were two cages inside an isolator with medical mask fabric in between them and a fan blowing from the infected cage to the other cage. That's not me in a grocery store. And it's not the same thing as continually rebreathing in viruses from your own mask. That isolator has an intake and an air-purified outtake.
And your evidence that masks result in asymptomatic cases for people is literally all anecdotes. That doesn't mean they're wrong. But I suspect one could find cases where 95% of infections are asymptomatic and yet nobody was wearing masks in the environment. You're probably going to critique me for relying on a personal suspicion instead of repeating something a real scientist says but whatev

>>12113533
Ok, so, how did Wuhan defeat the virus then? And other cities too? By not wearing masks, pretending the virus doesn't exist and just wishing it go away?

>>12114156
By locking down super hard