/sci/ - Science & Math

previous >>12073337

>>12077370
First for MANSPREAD super heavy landing legs

SRB test soon

>>12077370
Jesus, if you hollowed out Starship could a cargo variant put an entire Falcon9 first stage in orbit?
I don't know why you'd want to but it seems impressive.

>>12077392
You could carry entire dragon module inside Starship and use it as an escape hatch.

Can we post some of those cool futuristic pictures of people on other worlds?

I wonder how many Dragons could be carried up in one go?
>Starship deploys combat-variant Dragons as starfighters to attack rival launches

>>12077370
mission to your anus when?

>>12077406
Prob ~10 but maybe optimized for Starship launches which could possibly double it.

>>12077413
A formidable attack squadron.

SpaceX need more diversity. It's overwhelmingly white and masculine.

>>12077411
When you finally go in to the proctologist anon.

>>12077396
Love those for desktop backgrounds. Here's one I have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOyBNUJ5bA8

SLS SRB test in about an hour

>>12077430
how important is this?
is it a great step ahead in the making of SLS?

>>12077438
No

>>12077438
Well, it would suck if it blew up or fizzled out.
Or if the thrust profile from the new burn channel pattern was all FUBAR. It's important enough since this is the main propulsion on the orange asthmatic turd.

>>12077449
FUBAR standing for...?

>>12077452
Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition.

>>12077455
Ahhhh hahah yeah that would be no bueno. But funny nonetheless

I'm curious-would it be easy to modify the falcon 9 to use side-mounted SRBs?

>>12077472
That's heresy. It doesn't need them because it has more than enough TWR for it's size.

>>12077438
SLS is a bad joke.

>>12077472
Don't need to, just put more falcons on. SRBs are garbage.

>>12077511
If you rely on shitty TWR, they're a necessity. If you have 1.7 million pounds of thrust like that Falcon 9, it's just fucking heresy.

>>12077472
Just put more falcon 9's and call it a falcon heavy.

>>12077517
That's just a matter of design, no reason why you can't have decent liquid rockets. If they don't have the TWR then they're just designed badly. As you said the Falcon 9 has the power, there's no excuse for anyone else. SRBs are the budget shitty option that actually end up being more expensive.

>>12077522
Solid first stage, side-mounted SRBs in 4-fold symmetry, solid second stage, solid kick-stage. Payload is another SRB.

>>12077525
Well, people keep going for that hydromeme and SRB training wheels because their golden boys just happen to be the ones making them.

>>12077530
>Florida gets wiped off the map because there's a slight gust of wind on launch day.

Reposting

Today in history:
>1804 – Juno, one of the largest asteroids in the Main Belt, is discovered by the German astronomer Karl Ludwig Harding.
>1974 – The SR-71 Blackbird sets (and holds) the record for flying from New York to London in the time of 1 hour, 54 minutes and 56.4 seconds at a speed of 1,435.587 miles per hour (2,310.353 km/h).
>1979 – The American space probe Pioneer 11 becomes the first spacecraft to visit Saturn when it passes the planet at a distance of 21,000 kilometres (13,000 mi).
>1982 – The United States Air Force Space Command is founded.

https://news.psu.edu/story/630522/2020/09/02/research/bang-ligo-detectors-signals-most-massive-gravitational-wave-source
Bit of black hole sexing going on.

>>12077536
Mission accomplished.

BUILD IT ALREADY YOU FUCKING COWARDS!

>>12077525
>no reason why you can't have decent liquid rockets. If they don't have the TWR then they're just designed badly.
The absolute state of this thread

>>12077546
>ends all whales during inaugural launch

>>12077562
Just launch it from land, in California.

>>12077562
Good.

>>12077561
The fuck is the point of a rocket that can't move a payload? Give me SSTO or give me death.

>>12077517
>If you rely on shitty TWR, they're a necessity.
They're a necessity if you want to minimize gravity losses in an expendable rocket

>>12077562
Gotta nuke something

Doesn't a refueling station in LEO make sense today? Use cheap reusables like F9s to send fuel to it, then launch a huge payload using all your dv to reach the station, refuel and then fuck off where you like with your payload.

>>12077578
yup. See: starship

>>12077578
What's the difference between that and just assembling a spaceship out of multiple launches? LEO refueling is not going to be a huge deal until we can figure out how to get fuel from low gravity bodies.

>>12077578
Tell that to Dick Shelby.

>>12077578
isn't starship tanker just that?

I wonder why the starship doesn't have falcon 9 legs. Those seem better suited for landing on unprepared surfaces.

>>12077593
Superheavy has moved to 4 folding legs, but on starship it's more aerodynamic to have the legs inside the engine skirt

>>12077593
Starship will have to take off again after landing without having the luxury of having a team refolding the landing legs so maybe that has something to do with it? The extendable legs might be more reliable for multiple uses than the folding legs.

>>12077578
Sfg orbital assembly yeet train.

Why does NASA need to test the SRBs that they have been using for 40 years?

>>12077370
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOyBNUJ5bA8

UNHH I'M I'M GONNA B-BOOOST

I'M BOOSTING

>>12077598
Gotta justify the expensive contracts and paperwork associated with it. Any way to generate man hours on bureaucracy

Holy shit i didn't know paula deen worked for NASA

Chonky announcer for a chonky booster.

>>12077604
in 20 minutes....

Shelby is watching.

>>12077593
Probably to make use of the space inside the skirt and reduce the mechanical issue with legs on outside from atmosphere/heat/etc. + Aesthetics. Its probably a multi-pronged reason why.

Hold up, gotta build a nuclear Orion rocket with Sea Dragon boosters

>Booster slows down Earth's rotation

>>12077611
Too bad we can't get him to inspect the nozzle during the live fire.

So this is what NASA has become...

>>12077617

>>12077623
SAD!

>>12077608
Nothing compares to the SpaceX QT

What is the simplest test stand for a motor that one could make using hardware store parts?

>>12077618
Gonna need Saturn V boosters for the Sea Dragons.

What the fuck was that shit the guy with the sponge was touching?

More like CHADSTON

Is Northrop Grumman /sfg/ approved?

>>12077631
As many as you require.

>>12077623
Hiring people like this motivates them to want to get off the planet.

>2 months to install 2 segments

Sweet home Alabama

>>12077633
The fuel

This announcer is so fucking annoying im going to cut my ears off

>>12077636
/sfg/ is results/time approved. You can make anything given enough time. But things really only matters if result/time is low enough.

I hope they use her as ballast for the first test flight

When is the SLS meme be finished?

>MOST POWERFUL ROCKET EVER!
Too bad it spends all that power just lifting its own fat ass.

stream girl from spacex

>>12077632
Boosters for the booster God!
Struts for the strut throne!

>>12077641
Gotta justify the insane price

You can really tell NASA is trying hard to make their broadcasts like Spacex

JIM

>>12077655
Everyone is changing because of SpaceX. ULA, ESA, Russians, etc.

>>12077653
Way she goes boys

>>12077649
When the Senate says it is finished

>>12077649
When Elon names Super Heavy the Starship Launch System

stream girl from boeing

>>12077649
in a few minutes when it explodes.

Wow how cool a fucking booster test fire!!! Only 3 more fucking years until NASA actually launches something!

>>12077638
I've never thought about that. Thanks!

This test is essentially a political ad for SLS

>>12077649
After SpaceX flies man to the moon and bring him back.

>>12077660
>>12077663
kek

>>12077666
You will want something solid to push against too, but good old vices holds shit down and into position pretty well.

>>12077662
>the virgin boing boing go her fat titties
vs
>>12077652
>the stacy corporate bike

>>12077660
kek

her accent is killing me boys

I feel like I'm one of the only people who genuinely gets literally angry thinking about the SLS. What a fucking huge waste of money and time, it feels like some big joke to me. Like it's made solely to piss me off.

AMERICAN rockets launched from AMERICAN soil and funded by AMERICAN tax payers

>>12077683
The single booster test will cost more than the entire Starship development cost.

>>12077683
It was supposed to be a retirement plan for all the Space Shuttle program workers. It's been 10 years since it ended, why aren't all these people retired yet?

>>12077678
Eee-yust Tehksas

>>12077683
Absolutely, they should support Starship development and let SLS die.

Can a booster test in the desert be aborted

>>12077683
just calm yourself down by realizing that there have actually been 2 such boondoggles at NASA in recent years

>>12077695
You don't fucking abort a booster, it aborts you.

I want to see 15 meter LUVOIR telescope, Superheavy can easily launch it

>>12077687
are you hyperboling? are you serious?

>>12077694
Letting SLS die would mean letting thousands of AMERICAN space industry jobs die across fifty states

inb4 RUD

>>12077699
>You now remember the James Webb Space Telescope

>>12077683
Isn't it basically just the STS 2.0 without the shuttle?

SLS program managed to launch a drone in the air

>>12077701
How much would a LUVOIR cost?

>>12077683
You’re not alone. SLS is a symbol of politics infiltrating NASA. Such a huge waste of time space money and resources.
>>12077705
Deus vult

>>12077705
and thats a good thing!

>>12077652

>>12077669
yes

BOOM!

ONE MINUTE LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO

Commit the murder

ROCKET TO NOWHERE LETS GO

BIRD SPOTTED GET AWAY

>>12077705

>REEEEEEEEEE
Jesus fucking christ

>>12077702
Its close to $1 B per booster.

braaaaaaaapppppppppp

Just put a timer on the screen

>no on screen timer
NASA can burn

dead stream LMAO

>stream rip

oh god I'm PLOOMING

>stream freezes

>dream that mars is hollow and full of spiders
uhhh bros....

>stream is kill
YES

This dont look very good for the environment bros

>>12077742
>this is the power of SLS

Congratulations, NASA managed to accomplish what they'd already accomplished 30 years ago, which is not as impressive as what they managed to accomplish 20 years before that.

WHY IS IT ON FIRE OH GOD WHAT THE FUCK

>SpaceX can livestream from a rocking boat a rocket landing in the middle of the ocean
>NASA can't stream a rocket that's stuck on the ground

>Spends over $2 billion dollars per launch for SLS
>Can't be arsed to put an onscreen timer
I guess they have to make sure the guy who does the countdown remains in employment.

>>12077699
That gold-plated beryllium gets me warm.

At least it worked better thn the OmegA test.
Also grass fires all over.

>>12077750
starship's methane will come from carbon capture, so it is carbon neutral.

That will be 1 billion dollars plus tip /sfg/

>>12077756
Because that's how solid rocket propulsion works.

>>12077750
it's fine. middle of nowhere. your town probably had way a considerably worse AQI after 4th of the July celebrations

what a cute little arm they have to extinguish the booster after the burn
>>12077750
check out the thick black clouds it puts out after the test lmao

>>12077732
Whoops more like closer to $70m per booster.

>>12077759
It is a very nice telescope that is more than an order of magnitude over its initial budget and more than a decade late.

>she's back

>southern twang
>wELL, HOW aBouT tHAt

fuck off oldspace WHORE

>that fire

And now the mountain is on fire

Great the desert is on fire.

>grass on fire
NASAAAAAAAAAAAA

Looks like they have a little brush fire to put out too.

lmao the grass

>massive wildfire raging

uh oh this could get awkward

TECHNICAL INNOVATION

American fire on american grass on american soil

>911 dispatch screaming about fires in Utah

imagine being at the wrong end of that thing, you'd get your ashes scattered instantly

草

So uh...
When do they launch a rocket? I don't really follow space stuff that much

>>12077777
quints of truth
SLS is a giant dumpster fire

>>12077775
GET THE WATER NIGGA

EXPENDABLE FIRST STAGE SOLID ROCKET BOOSTERS

>>12077790
2022

>>12077790
in about 3 years from now + 2 more years for good measure and a couple of months

>>12077784
kek

>>12077796
...they're not recovering the SLS SRBs?

>>12077777
witnessed and scorched-earthpilled

>>12077797
One of those 2's is a 3.

>>12077759
imagine if you came on it

>>12077794
MOTHAFUCKIN BOOTLEG SHUTTLE, SHIT

>>12077755
To be honest, at this point I'm amazed that they can still make a functional SRB given that it took them almost a decade to make a propellant tank.

>>12077806
3022, should be ready

I just felt the pull of gravity weigh a little more heavily on my soul, anons

why is spacex able to launch like 100x more than NASA the last 6 years? whats the logistics here? nasa has a much higher budget i dont get it

Why does it take so long to glue together old shuttle parts?

>finally, we have returned shuttle booster technology back to America

>>12077817
SLS isn't a rocket program, it's a jobs program.

>>12077815
kek

>>12077808
dude what if a kid in the make a wish foundation asked to do that? like he has a space telescope fetish and constantly obsesses about hubble and various american spy satellites and he has cancer and his greatest dream is to jizz on the JWST-would they deny a dying child his fondest wish? Should they? I mean....can you clean cum off of gold-berylllium?

>>12077817
NASA has an incentive to stretch the project out as long as possible because it's a constant source of taxpayer funding to various centers and contractors.

If SLS finishes their goal, their budget is CUT, not replaced or moved.

>>12077825
They'll just give him a pyrite mirror that looks like the real thing

>>12077817
A lot of bureaucratic overhead and contractors don't really have any incentives to finish the job since they always end up getting more time and more funding.

>>12077827
The most impressive thing NASA has done in years, kill like 10000 bugs in 2 minutes. Hats off

>>12077827
Imagine the smell

>>12077817
NASA isn't a launch provider.

>>12077827
>>12077833

I think we can all agree here
NASA>Boeing>Northrop>Rocket Lab>SpaceX>Lockheed>Virgin Galactic

>>12077843
based

>>12077843
lol

>>12077843
I agree, Senator.

>>12077827
Each of those sprayers is 100K of your tax money.
Let that sink in.

>>12077851
here comes the arm

Reckon you could cultivate an SLS toothbrush brand before its maiden flight?

>>12077851
I just realized you can see the spark of ignition. neat

>>12077750
Fuck the environment in the ass

>>12077843
SpaceX>NASA>Rocket Lab>Lockheed>Northrop>Virgin Galactic>Bottlerockets.Inc>Boing

>>12077843
ULA > ULA > ULA > ULA > ULA > ULA = ULA > ULA ULA ULA ULA ULA ULA LUALUALUALUALUALUA

>>12077838

It's a launch vehicle operator where the vehicle path selected was a shuttle derived one since the people of the time huffed their own fumes of how wonderful and perfect and unbeatable shuttle derived launch technology is and still do.

>>12077869
Fuck ULA and their bullshit lobbying tactics.

>>12077803
nope just throwing 140m into the ocean each launch
at least it's less than what the rest of the first stage costs :)

>>12077843
>we

>>12077862
Actually not bad. I like lockheed more than rocketlab, but the electron rocket exceeds expectations for such a small company. Good list overall

>>12077790
Starship will take about 3~6 years
New Glenn is supposed to go up next year
SLS will go... eventually, somewhere, maybe... think of the jobs!
Rocket launches in general happen almost every other week these days

>>12077843
Hi shelby

>>12077899

Starship will launch to orbit early next year and SLS late next year, maybe.

>>12077562
Well Super Heavy launching from a raft will probably not be that much better for them.

We won NASA chads, we fucking won

I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna build the D word.

>>12077599
How many hundred million dollars did this test cost?

>>12077920
Reported and blacklisted. You have now joined depots on the no-fly list

>>12077920
very nice design, may I steal?

>>12077599
>720p
Antiquated cameras for an antiquated technology.

Powerful
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/leland-melvin-nasa-astronaut-scn-trnd/index.html

>>12077929
yeah sure anon, but hurry up before shelby finds out

>>12077933
Fuck her.

Anon, you do have the Tantares mod right?

>>12077946
All I have is the Russian Engines mod. I’m pretty sure if I update KSP it will crash everything lmao

>>12077946
>using t*nt*res instead of procedural parts
uhhh bro....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB663w8_S6s
some cool new aerials of Boca Chica

Have any of you /sfg/ bros successfully converted any friends to space fags? Literally everyone I show something space related or talk about it goes like "oh wow, cool" and in the end gives 0 fuck about it. I just want to talk about space with someone IRL...

>>12077546
Why build it when we alrealdy now it would never work?
Even with the knowledge we have today.

>>12077593
They'd have to be absolutely enormous, and thus enormously heavy. They'd have to be stouter and thicker than Falcon's legs because Falcon is made of aluminum while Starship/Superheavy is steel. For weights like Starship/Superheavy short integrated hydraulically or electrically actuated legs are more practical.

>>12077851
is that a fucking bird dying at the start?

>>12077981
The only "dying bird" here is the Bald Eagle.

oooooooh, pretty

>>12077803
They're taking the solid rocket motors designed for reuse and the shuttle engines designed for reuse and dump them in the ocean after each launch. The first few launches even have actual space shuttle engines on them that actually were recovered and refurbished multiple times before.
Instead of trying to improve on 70's technology slightly in order to make it viable, they just declared it all too hard. Then they proceded to spend 30 billion dollars trying to figure out how to downgrade 70s hardware in a way that it almost performs like 60s hardware.

Has anyone seen this movie, how realistic is it?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6537238/

>>12077962
what are you landing?

>>12077999
muh dick lol

>>12077784
OH SAY CAN YOU SEE!
BY THE GRASS' EARLY LIGHT!

>>12077816
SLS isn't real. It can't hurt you.

>>12077999
a japanese fishing bucket

>>12078010
you can literally go see it down on the test stand at Stennis, anon

>>12078017
It's not that easy in rocketry.

>>12077996
>Instead of trying to improve on 70's technology slightly in order to make it viable, they just declared it all too hard.
Close, but modern RS-25s have been made, they're called the RS-25E (you can tell the difference by looking at the nozzle, the Es will have a smooth nozzle while the old Shuttle engines are tubular). Supposedly future SLSs will use them, and the first launches will use old Shuttle engines until the production line for the RS-25E is ready, but given how long the first SLS is taking I'm amazed that NASA is still dedicated for this plan rather than wrap up starting production for the new engines and using them.

>>12077411
>Spacex launches special variant of Dragon called the Bad Dragon to probe Uranus

>>12078021
>you can tell the difference by looking at the nozzle, the Es will have a smooth nozzle while the old Shuttle engines are tubular
Scratch that. I think I have gotten something mixed up, because the SSMEs have a smooth outside to their nozzles too.

>>12078021
Yes, those engines belong in a museum. They’ve had plenty of time to make the new E-variant and have it ready for Artemis-1. I hate everything about SLS

>>12078021
How many decades for a limited run of eight RS-25E's costing 250 borgillion dollars a piece?

>>12077712
That's the entire point. It was designed to reuse Shuttle parts and contractors so that 40 years of pork barrel spending didn't just die.

>>12078021
Anon. I meant improve on the economics of those engines and their reuse. That was the entire reason why the reuse and by extension the shuttle was such a massive fucking meme.
That's why they dumped the concept for SLS.
Who the fuck cares about a couple percent more thrust or ISP or whatever when you're paying hundreds of millions just for these engines and then dump them in the ocean after each flight. It's fucking insane.

>>12078021
It's absolutely baffling to me that they're taking antique museum-piece engines and using them once before dumping them in the sea, if there already are plans for making a dedicated new engine for the fucking thing to begin with.
"Well we said we'd use shuttle components so we have to salvage something I guess"

>ugh what could have been

>>12078036
You see museum piece, NASA sees inventory problem. I hate government so much sometimes.

>>12078029
Apparently this year, Aerojet was awarded a contract of 18 more engines at a total cost of $1.79B.

This isn't even half the diameter of the Sea Dragon. Holy fuck.

>>12078041
>Only 100 million a piece for an RS-family rocket engine.
Bullshit, I don't believe it. Delays and cost overruns when?

Honestly not reusing rockets is cooler, makes each launch much more impactful, much more hype all around, and makes the success of launch all the more worthwhile. Reusable is soulless in comparison

>>12078040
>inventory problem
JUST FUCKING DONATE THEM
Anon holy shit the more I dwell on this the angrier I become

>>12078047
based

>>12078025
>>12078034
>>12078036
You all have a point. NASA should be preserving their history instead of deleting everything like in Apollo. Just in the original "guise" of SLS being a "we gotta make this super heavy rocket ASAP", the reuse of Shuttle engines made some sense. However, now it just seems intentionally wasteful. imo NASA should've went with the Shuttle-C concept, but that design is apparently hated by management due to silly historical reasons.

>>12078033
Reminds me of the movie Cube.
Don't ask questions. Either use it or admit that it was all a massive waste of time, money and effort.

>>12078047
I agree Rosgozin

>>12078053
Honestly between this and "losing" the Apollo data it seems like NASA is being intentionally sabotaged by (((some group))) who doesn't want us to get off world to escape their control.

>>12078029
>Why reuse 8 when you can build 8 at 8 times the price?
>y w8 I r8 8/8 gr8 m8

>>12078062
It's not a secret, look at what the priorities from the WH for NASA were in 2008-2016

>>12077996
Is the SLS better than the Saturn V in some ways? If yes which? Serious question.

>>12078068
no

>>12078068
>Is the SLS better than the Saturn V in some ways?
The hypothetical SLS Block 2 which maybe might possibly some day will have more cargo capacity. Block 1/1B is a straight downgrade.

>>12078068
>soviets once had big plans for reusable rocket systems
>internal rot made thme break up before these could be realized
>america dreaming big about mars
>riddled with internal contradictions and strife

im scared bros....

Hullcam is kino as fuck

>>12078062
Honeslty I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but my gut tells me the cabal will expose itself once Starship makes it to orbit. I feel like there will be a huge group, from Shelby to other people we don’t event expect yet, who will become super anti-SpaceX or anti-space. It will be a mix of a lot of people. Shelby will feel his state is being threatened... progressives will feel like Elon should give the money to poor black kids... and there will probably be (((people))) who will start to campaign about “keeping Mars in its natural state! Humans should land a woman on the Moon and Artemis should be cancelled after that.”
Who do you think controls the media anon?

>>12077976
I made my wife into a space nerd. not the "I fuzcken luv science XD" type but the real kind.

>>12078068
No, not even slightly. They might brag and say "THE MOST POWERFUL ROCKET EVER CREATED" but what does matter when it's also the fattest arsed rocket ever created and it uses all its power to lift that fat ass into orbit leaving jack shit for payload?

>>12078073
We all know Block 2 will never exist.

>>12078077
>Who do you think controls the media anon?

>>12077578
F9 is too expensive for that, but Starship will be cheap enough.

>>12078062
Honestly, I think NASA is being sabotaged so that the agency doesn't try to jump start Apollo 2.0. Apollo was expensive as hell, and I recall reading a historical article about how the US government was very aware of this and wanted to keep the agency limited. If the agency weren't limited, then they would be able to push the boundaries of space flight, inspire people, and then those people would want more Apollo-like missions. Which will further strain the US budget (or at least there was a concern). I think that's why the Shuttle was adopted and accepted despite it clearly not meeting any of its design goals, because it kept NASA's capability limited enough to prevent it from being more inspiring.

>>12078080
How did you manage it though?

>>12078083
it's funny, he was clearly referring to billionaires, the "Hello" was him using himself as an example, but these people are so stupid and sensative that they dogpiled him and made thmeselves look really suspicious.

>>12078068
No, Block 1 and 1b are strictly inferior to Saturn V in maximum theoretical payload, and Block 2/Cargo only just matches Saturn V in payload. Block 2 will never exist though, because it relies on the existence of the European Service Module, which last I heard hasn't even been started yet.
Yuropoors don't even have a space program, their "space program" is to do a study trying to figure out whether or not they want to try and copy Falcon 9 an indeterminite amount time in the future. So I doubt the EUS will ever exist, and thus SLS will stagnate at Block 1b.

>>12078068
It's cheaper per launch than the Saturn V (IIRC the value on wikipedia is a low estimate and the true cost of the Saturn was much higher but undetermined due to the rushed nature of the program), its smaller diameter tanks and booster-sustainer design makes it easier to transport around, and it has a slightly better payload to TLI mass fraction. That's all I got on the technical details.

>>12078077
>Honeslty I’m not one for conspiracy theories
Apparently you are.

>>12078093
>Block 2 will never exist though, because it relies on the existence of the European Service Module
https://roundupreads.jsc.nasa.gov/pages.ashx/1004/NASA Celebrates Orions European Service Module Arrival

Delivered in 2018. Block 1a and onwards relies on new advanced boosters, which will never exist.

>>12078102
We all are these days, otherwise you're not paying enough attention.

>>12078103
Shit, why are they even bothering using the garbage Interim Propulsion Stage for anything then?
It's fucking trash, why would you ever waste an SLS to sling such an anemic 2S?

>>12078102
Good point lmao

>>12078068
Dspite being designed 50 years later, the SLS is objectively inferior in terms of dollars per kilogram to LEO

Saturn V: $1.2 Billion per launch / 140 tons to LEO = $8,500 / kg

SLS block 1: $2.6 Billion per launch / 95 tons to LEO = $27,000 / kg

This doesn't take into account development costs.

Wait 1 second here.....

>>12078076
what is it

>>12078110
Don't ask me. ESA actually delivers, the problem with SLS is not a European one. the "advanced boosters" for block 1a and 2 hasn't even been designed as far as I know and the stock of shuttle SRB casings is limited.
It's such a fucking cursed zombie program.

>>12078118
W-what the absolute fuck.

>>12078110
SLS makes me physically angry and I want to see it RUD into oblivion. I hope boeing is in charge of the coding and the thing just rotates uncontrollably until aerodynamic stresses tear the thing apart. Boeing will use the excuse that “well had this mission been manned they could have overwritten controls and gone into manual”... but the damage will have been done. It’s despicable that NASA went through with this rocket.

>>12078126
And before 2011, shuttle derived spare parts rocket had a different name, and before that, it had another different name.
This zombie has been around the block in at least 3 incarnations now.

>>12078077
You're taking it too far,but anti-natalists,mathusians and "planetary protection" advocates do exist and they probably will start stirring shit with far-left radicals at some point.

Zubrin did a scathing and hilarious review of one of their books recently-https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/book-review-dark-skies-argues-we-should-cripple-space-program/#slide-1

These people are a menace and we should be ready for a fight for our right to colonize space.

>>12078088
My passion was just infectious I guess. I'm obsessed with Apollo and I told her all about it, we started watching SpaceX livestreams (she gets super excited about the major ones), we built space Lego together (pic related) I just made it fun.

>>12078112
aaah
Aaah!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK SLS,
FUCK BOING,
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY,
AHEM
FFFFFFFFFUCK RICHARD "EXPENDABLE ASTRONAUTS" SHELBY!

>>12078126
That was just when it was renamed. SLS's original design was set in 2004 under Bush. It's been in development for 16 years

>>12078126
Yes, it took NASA almost a decade to make a new propellant tank for pre-existing engines, pre-existing boosters, and a modified Delta IV upper stage.

>>12078085
Apollo wasn't even 5% of the US budget. If we napalmed every ghetto in the country we'd have enough money left over to run Apollo missions forever without raising taxes.

>>12078121
put cameras on probes and boosters

>>12078126
>>12078130
The basic concept has been around since the 80's

>>12078083
>At police station
>See lineup of suspects
>"Clearly one of these is the criminal"
>One of them in particular speaks up
>"Why are you singling out ME???"

>>12078039
damn...

>>12078100
So as I understand if modern manufacturing techniques would have been used with simplified designs such as the F1B it would have made more sense (and kino) to churn out Saturn V variants. Am I wrong?

>>12078147
>if the Shuttle was never built

>>12078133
>Large-scale space expansion must be viewed as something akin to a full-scale nuclear war and assiduously avoided. . . . Learning to live on Earth in ways consistent with the continued viability of the biosphere clearly requires an acceptance of limits.
What a fucking asshat. He wouldn't even exist if it weren't for pioneers and explorers who dared to expand into uncharted lands.

>>12078143
>SLS concept is older than the majority of anons shitting on it for being behind schedule

>>12078151
Not to mention Earth has less than 60 million years of habitability left. We have no choice, we MUST expand into space.

Can someone tell me why SpaceX hasn't pitched Falcon 9 for the SLS block 2 advanced liquid booster? Surely they could undercut the fuck out of everyone else by flying booster back.

procedural parts having taper/chamfer/filet available on all shapes WHEN I wanna make my DC-X bros

>>12078110
>>12078103
you fucking retards, the European Service Module is the thing that attaches to the bottom of the Orion crew capsule, it doesn't even go on a cargo launch
the Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage is the upper stage for SLS block 1
it will be replaced by the EUS (Exploration Upper Stage) which is made by Boeing and they're working on it now (maybe) for SLS Block 1B

Block 1A was an option they could have chosen where they would have upgraded the boosters first (but they decided to do Block 1B instead with the bigger upper stage)
Block 2 is a hypothetical legal definition of payload to LEO/the moon, and even with both the upgraded boosters from 1A (which they will need to make at some point because we're running out of Shuttle SRB cases lmao) and the upgraded upper stage from 1B they won't make it
I don't know what they'll call it when it's "block 2" but doesn't have the lift capacity to be called that

>>12078148
>So as I understand if modern manufacturing techniques would have been used with simplified designs such as the F1B it would have made more sense (and kino) to churn out Saturn V variants. Am I wrong?
In theory? This is possible, and the designs have been made. However, in practice it would just end up as another bloated project. It took NASA 9 years to make a propellant tank out of a material they worked with for years, and using manufacturing processes that were mature by the time the project started. You can give the management behind the SLS the easiest engineering project in the world and they would still manage to go over budget and over time by a depressing margin. You can't build a house if the foundation is rotten.

>>12078161
NASA isn’t looking for other bidders. The whole point of going with SLS is keeping the shitty shuttle contractors employed so congress is happy and keeps funding flowing

>>12078075
Honestly who would have been the best to be in charge of the Soviet rocket program in the 60s and 70s, Korelev, Glushko or Chelomei?

>>12078161
That would require SpaceX hand over all specs to NASA since it's a Congress mandated project. Elon won't give them that

https://www.metalearth.com/boeing/boeing-starliner
buy your exclusive starliner model!

>>12078110
>>12078093
Are you getting
European
Service
Module

and

Exploration
Upper
Stage

confused? Because one is the trunk of the Orion capsule and one is a 4-engined proper upper stage for SLS that is meant to get rid of the Delta IV stage they're using for the first few flights.

>>12078123
you need to read my earlier wall of text too, dipshit

>>12078076
beautiful.

>>12078175
Yeah, that's what I mean, to be fair, Europe? Boing? What's the difference?
Neither are going to space anytime soon.

>>12078133
> It is true that most of the material is filler, but levity is provided by many original technical errors sprinkled generously throughout the text. Deudney claims, for example, that the temperature of objects in Earth orbit is 300 degrees Centigrade, that bodies made of water will freeze “instantly” in deep space, that the limit of Earth’s gravitational field is 30,000 kilometers, that objects in space “must move fast or they will fall down,” and — contradicting Newton and Copernicus, respectively — that different laws of motion apply to objects on Earth and in space, and that there is a geographical boundary between Earth and space. (N.b.: Earth is in space.) Crusaders for emergency measures to upgrade elementary- and secondary-school science education will doubtless find much useful evidence here to buttress the importance and urgency of their cause.

>>12078148
Ah yes, the Pyrios booster concept. Using simplified versions of the F-1 engine, the F-1B. Those were deemed "too powerful" and thus "too dangerous" for the SLS.
So they picked the Space Shuttle SRBs instead, because those have only killed 7 astronauts.

>>12078165
Why are you calling me a fucking retard? I'm the one who pointing out to him that the service module had *nothing* to do with block 1a/2, but that it hinges on the advanced booster materializing out of thin air or not.

>>12078159
I think this Daniel Deudney just hates humanity and wants the species to die off. If he seriously thinks exceptionalism and drive for improvement are inherently bad things, then he should've never worked for that PhD in Yale and just lived out his life in some commune in the middle of nowhere.

Did NASA actually FORGET HOW TO BUILD THE GREATEST PIECE OF HUMAN ENGINEERING EVER THAT PUT HUMANS ON THE MOON?

>>12078175
why are there so many retards on this board who are mad about shit when they don't even know what they're mad about?

>>12078185
Note, this guy has a PhD from Yale. He should have enough sense to at least look up the details of space flight from Wikipedia.

>>12078186
the advanced boosters were put off to Block 2 (even though they aren't enough to get it to Block 2)
Block 1A was an option that will never be exercised, instead they chose to do Block 1B

>>12078170
I thought they already did that to man rate Falcon?

>>12078168
SpaceX has sued NASA for that logic before and won. Despite all the pork and skullfuckery, there are still laws that mandate a competitive process, and the CBO exists.

What would be the performance of a Falcon Launch System? It would basically be a Falcon Heavy with a hydrolox core and second stage, right?

>>12078190
Nah, they just got roped into building a tax scam rocket by politicians who don't know shit about rockets who in turn were convinced by an aerospace contractor who also doesn't know shit about building rockets or airplanes anymore, since their company is run by empty suits instead of experts int he field.
>>12078191
Calm down, it was just a mixup of component names, Space Launch Shill.

>>12078190
no, they quit paying the contractors and then the contractors blew up the tooling because Nixon told them to

>>12078062
>use left-wing media to tell people space is racist
>use right-wing media to tell people space is fake

>>12078200
SpaceX only has to prove F9 works, not the details of how it works to get certified. Things like the landing sequence code are most likely proprietary and closely guarded at SpaceX

>>12078190
Is this your first time reading into that? To answer your question, no and yes. NASA still has the blueprints and technical details on how to make those parts, but the manufacturer's notes on how to precisely fit those parts together are gone. Also, manufacturing techniques have moved on, and recreations of such old technology would require rework to be made today. By that point it would just be easier to make new stuff.

>>12078204
YOU NEED TO GET THE DETAILS CORRECT IN ORDER TO FUCKING COMPREHEND THE DEPTHS OF MY RAGE
THERE'S NO POINT BEING MAD IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE MAD ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT EVEN TRUE

Just a reminder we were supposed to be on the Moon by now. I can forgive NASA for wanting to stick with the same contractors to make congress happy... but instituting cost-plus contracting has been the death of any expectation to keep on a schedule. NASA should have given a strict 2021 deadline for the first manned mission, and told every contractor that they get 1 free “behind schedule” pass and after that their funding gets cut and their schematics get sent to a different manufacturer

>>12078190
Sort of? It's kinda unfair to say "forgot" so much as the manufacturing technology and skills available today are so different than the 1960s and 70s that we would struggle to make an exact copy of Saturn V. But as the F-1B showed, we can just redesign it in CAD programs for modern machining and get lighter, simpler, more reliable designs.

A fully redesigned Saturn V with F1B engines and some modern hydrolox upper stages would be a beast. And probably cheaper than SLS.

>>12078206
>contractors blew up the tooling because Nixon told them to
What?!

>>12078076
>>12078182
KSP?

I dab on SpaceXs grave when Starship fails

>>12077636
their BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST rocket got cancelled

>>12078222
yes, with AVP 8k, scatterer and EVE

>>12078212
So pitch "boosters as a service" to NASA. The boosters would remain SpaceX property and the mission would end at booster separation. At which point SpaceX would simply RTDS.

Surely Shelby wouldn't oppose all those hard working booster refurbishment jobs at the Cape?

>>12078221
we had an oil crisis and vietnam to worry about, see
couldn't have those eggheads getting any funny ideas about space now

>>12078231
>Shelby
>caring about anything not happening in Alabama

>>12078231
Shelby would oppose because SpaceX is still involved. Unless SpaceX moves ALL operations to Alabama.

>>12078133
People who write books like that is why I need to get off this fucking rock yesterday.
I get existential dread having to share a fucking planet with these people, I've done so for over 40 fucking years now.

>>12078232
This image of Nixon always creeps me out, like his face is too loose round the eyes, like he's wearing a mask.

>>12078219
>I can forgive NASA for wanting to stick with the same contractors to make congress happy... but instituting cost-plus contracting has been the death of any expectation to keep on a schedule.
You can't have the old contractors without the cost-plus. NASA pulled them in with cost-plus in the first place during Apollo. At the time it was necessary because everything was new and risky at the time. Now, when the science and technology becomes more established then cost-plus is a detriment, but NASA couldn't one day just say "okay! we'll stop with the cost-plus" because then every large contractor will throw a fit and threaten economic instability until they get what they want. A solution would be to pick the contractors who don't do this once the old ones left, but during the 60s there was no one else to pick. So, NASA was stuck with them.

>>12078225
>Let's just kerbal together a fuckload of solid booster and send it in just for the lulz

>>12078236
>>12078235
>SLS will now launch in retrograde orbits from Florida so Falcon 9 derived boosters can perform an innovating "return to Alabama" launch profile

It amazes me that the US has the best space program despite it being constantly raped from every direction. Unironically, how have nations like China not caught up? They are a one party system and they can focus the entire aerospace industry on big projects without the politics. Yet they are stuck with shitty hypergolic village annihilators

>>12078229
kino

>>12078243
>Sweet Home Alabama plays in SpaceX streams

>>12078241
SRBs are the future, anon.

>>12078245
China has caught up. They were launching people while the US was stuck without a shuttle or other means. China is moving towards reusable stages.

>>12078249
did you ever figure out how many of what kinds of SRB you'd need to get to orbit on kerbin?

>>12078248
WHERE THE PLUMES ARE SO BLUEEEE

>>12078245
mostly chinks are just still really bad at precission manufacturing stuff and metallurgy black magic

>>12078245
because a lack of internal competition means there's no reason to do better

same reason america was stuck with ICBM derivatives and Shuttle until Elon stuck his big billionaire cock in the pork barrel

>>12078248
>elon has relocated Alabama to be 500km off shore of Florida
>Alabama has been renamed ASDS "Anything for Shelby"

>>12078245
Because a perpetually-dysfunctional America is still superior to the rest of the world.

>>12078245
>>12078254
You aren’t wrong but you aren’t taking into account the fact that they have to wait for other countries to launch stuff before stealing the tech and half-assing it with their abysmal material science capabilities

REUSABLE
HYPERGOLIC
BOOSTERS

>>12078256
no

>>12078191
Honestly, this guy managed the incredible feat of complaining about SLS in a way where it wasn't legit.
Start thinking about any particular part of the program and you'll go mad by how nonsensical it is as a rocket development program.
Hell, him asking why the fuck they're bothering with the ICPS and why the fuck the EUS isn't there from the start was perfectly legit if he hadn't given a wrong reason for holding that oppinion in the first place.
How do you spend 30 billion dollars on rubbing shuttle parts together until a rocket falls out and then complain that your budget wasn't enough to stick 3 more engines on your upper stage?

>>12078239
what about making new risky projects to make the cost plus make sense again?

>>12078165
This. Not sure how people are confusing the ATV-derived service module with the new hydrolox upper stage.

>>12078245
The US is the Harrison Bergeron of countries, it's weighted down by an unbelievable amount of handicaps which have steadily grown more and more invasive since the end of WW2. If the US hadn't been mindfucked with cultural subversion and demoralization, it would already have seized absolute and unassailable space dominance by now, sent scores of probes to the outter planets, established permanent bases on the Moon and probably Mars, and maybe already have begun launching ships utilizing the more advanced nuclear fission drives.

>>12078266
There is no technical reason you couldn't build a Starship clone with hypergolic engines, but good luck with ISRU

>>12078271
>How do you spend 30 billion dollars on rubbing shuttle parts together until a rocket falls out and then complain that your budget wasn't enough to stick 3 more engines on your upper stage?
Cost-plus contracts

>>12078266
Yes.

>>12078272
This only works if you have a hard 10-year deadline and another country is literally competing to flex and become a world superpower.
In a situation where you’re already on top, your best bet is to throw all your faith in an autistic billionaire who wants to literally leave the planet ASAP

Could this be achieved using Methalox and with reusable stages, as well as the intended crossfeeding of propellants?

>>12078264
They're catching up by copying but that's how the game is played and they're getting there. In the 19th century the US aggressively used steam machines European IPs for free in order to build their industry and it's been the most innovative country on earth for a while now.

Lmao bros, we had ONE tiny little SLS rest today and all it’s done is thrown us into a fit of rage. Press S to spit on the orange money pit

>>12078272
Because highly experimental technology that no-one else has ever done before can bankrupt a company if something were to go wrong. Cost-plus would provide a cushion for those companies. It really only works when everyone is highly motivated and won't try to abuse the system.

>>12078299
>test
>rest
Sounds about right hahahah. Big S.

>>12078225
imagine the vibrations

>>12078309
Starship will have Neuralink connections for all passengers to feel them

The USA should amend ITAR and allow SpaceX to share its tech with and build branches around the world. Having reusable rockets in europe, japan, india, dubai would be invaluable to hypercharging the economy and getting space cracked wide open to humanity. Also as a unified front the rest of the world can effectively combat chinese tyrrany.

Why didn't NASA just tell SpaceX to develop SLS?
Just give them the parts and they would've been done by now with 29.5 billion dollars to spare.

>>12078322
That's a nice way to give some rouge state ICBMs.

>>12078322
Thanks China, very cool.

>>12078323
Because SLS was started before SpaceX was even a company. Because SpaceX has just recently proven it's capabilities beyond a shadow of a doubt. Because that would require taking ownership of the parts way from the contractors who are benefiting from the development.

>>12078323
SpaceX didn't exist in 2004 and barely was anything in 2008. SpaceX also only employed like 100 people, no Senator would be interested in that small amount of support.

>2020
>There are still people that don't understand the original purpose of SLS by Congress

>>12078159
>Not to mention Earth has less than 60 million years of habitability left
Wait, really? I know the sun will cook us long before it goes out or the earth falls into the sun or whatever. But I didn't know it was this soon.
Makes me wonder why people still wonder about the fermi paradox when we ourselves arrived this fucking late to the party. At that number, if the dinosaurs or any other dominant species prior had farted around the globe another 10% holding things up we never would've gotten to intelligence, let alone rockets.

>>12078339
Give them time. It's alot to process.

>>12078309
>no female astronauts allowed due to unexpected orgasms

>>12078342
I heard we have less than 10 years

>>12078342
Idk where that anon got the 60 million number. As far as I know we have 1 billion before the sun outputs too much energy for life to exist. Unless i’m missing something? Anyone know what’s supposedly going to happen sixty million years from now?

>>12078358
Runaway greenhouse effect maybe?

>>12078361
that's a problem in 60 years not 60 million

>>12078342
No it's bullshit, there are concerning probabilities about big rocks crashing, gamma ray burst, or close supernovae but even then earth would likely stay inhabitable. We have approximately 1 billion years left.

hypergolics all the way

>>12077370
Yes. Why do you think there are so many science fiction writers that are mormon?

>>12078274
>ATV-derived
thanks, Scott Manley, for letting me know that the European Service Module for Orion isn't even a new design, it's just a leftover ATV slapped on the bottom

>>12077418
Too bad space fighters make no sense.

>>12078358
it's more like 500-800million years desu
silicate-carbonate cycle gets fucked and dropping CO2 levels kill off C3 photosynthesis around 500m years and C4 around 800m years
microbes and shit can go on for a while, but current sort of life is gonna be fucked

>>12078290
>methalox
yes
>crossfeed
yes
>reusability
no, it stages too high and too fast

>>12078384
At least 'uge space battleships slugging it out makes sense.

>>12078213
>By that point it would just be easier to make new stuff.
Modern NASA can't do anything easy. It can't hand craft engines like in the 60s and it sure as fuck can't just design an engine that's made with modern construction processes without making a huge boondoggle out of the project.

>>12078256
one time i strapped a chair and fins to the largest one, and with careful tuning of the thrust limiter i was able to reach orbit

>>12078369
Yeah 1 billion until “the earth is fucked no matter what”... but a mass extinction will certainly hit us before then. And no i’m not just talking about the ongoing holocene mass extinction, humans will survive it more likely than not. But something like an unexpected asteroid or GRB could totally blindside us. Imagine if human’s entire food chain collapsed. A nuclear winter would mean we couldn’t grow food, or eat anything down the food chain. Not trying to sound popsci, but our society currently isn’t able to handle a recovery from this. Our best bet is to spread out a little more, master ISRU, and maybe even learn how to grow food like lab meat and plants using ISRU raw materials.
Also what would a gamma ray burst look like on Earth? I assume if one hit us now the sky would turn pink for a bit, and people would just start dropping dead like flies

>>12078389
>no, it stages too high and too fast
How about then stages 1 and 2? The upper 2 stages are nuclear and are unlikely to return.

>>12078397
excuse me

>>12078402
>stages 1 and 2
dunno dude, compare the hypothetical launch trajectory to Falcon 9

>>12078412

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP
https://twitter.com/SpaceTfrs/status/1301233700600819712

>>12078394
aren't huge space battleships too big a concentration of value? one fast rocky boi could kill that.

>>12078398
>farts at you
>an entire hemisphere loses all electric devices
Hope you humans remember what a plow is for!

Does NASA believe return missions to the moon are required before a mission to Mars can happen?

>>12078398
GRB and big rocks are realistically manageable with some technology, no idea how we could deal with a supernovae though. And wouldn't a GRB hit Mars if it comes to earth? I personally think spreading is a good idea at this point but mostly because going to Mars and in Space will push forward and aggressively the development of the technologies we need at home. Terra-forming mars or stabilizing earth atmosphere? We need to scrub carbon.

>>12078423
The earth is already so big in general. The fact that the Sun is that much bigger gives me an existential crisis... and the fact that there are some stars that make the sun look like a little bitch of a dot is even scarier. Atoms are so small quadrillions and quadrillions of them can attract to create structures so big my mind can’t even fathom

>>12078423
pics like this have me give me a braingasm IDK what it is

just the incomprehensible scale, a mixture of sublime euphoria

>>12077855
underrated

>>12078433
NASA's current goal is to make it "sustainable" so there's always a Moon base or infrastructure there to assist with travel to Mars

>>12078433
Because the political will and funding only exists for a lunar return. They have to spin it as the first step on an insurmountable "Journey to Mars" so taxpayers care.

>>12078440
>>12078446
I can only fit so much 'big' in my mind's eye before it becomes meaningless distinction, like the estimation of how long it'll take for the universe to stop doing shit. That scale just doesn't fit easily into a human mind, at least not mine.

>>12078211
America needs to get its shit together and reform its broken two party bullshit to become a proper democracy. Most of this bullshit would stop instantly.

>>12077705
NASA should purely do scientific missions, it shouldn't design its own rockets anymore.

>>12077775
>>12077776
>>12077777
Ah yes, counting down to the quads.

>>12078457
America is more of a Republic than a Democracy. We don't want the US to become a pure democracy

I don't fucking get it

>>12078450
>>12078454
I'm wondering what the possibilities might be if NASA continues at its current pace and Starship is ready to go. Could Elon circumvent NASA and proceed solo? Assuming he's as impatient as I am.

>>12078455
Yeah and I know this is most likely untrue, but if we assume that life on earth is the ONLY life in the universe then that means the universe was knocking about for like, 9 billion years. What the fuck. What even is that amount of time? You mean to tell me that planets were forming, stars were exploding, and chemical reactions of all sorts were just going off for 9 billion years on its own without any sentient life being able to measure it and understand it?? It all goes over my head anon

>>12078159
>>12078342
>>12078369
>>12078398
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future

>>12078464
What the fuck am I looking at exactly

>>12078466
circumvent:
>NASA
yes
>FAA
no

it shouldn't be too bad