/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12075268
Aptitude tests are racist.

>>12075268
So they can bypass accusation of discriminating against asian and white students. If there is no way to somewhat objectively evaluate candidates against each other you can’t as easily prove they’re showing bias towards certain groups.

to get back at whitey and the yellow devil

>>12075281
But affirmative action is outlawed for California universities

>>12075268
To increase nepotism as a factor.

>>12075268
https://twitter.com/andrewyang/status/1129034490142220289?lang=en

>>12075268
research shows that the act/sat does not correlate with success

>>12075290
They do it anyway.

i've heard that a few american universities are dismissing SATs and GREs for admission, what does that mean, like what would they be considering as requirements for admission then and would that mean it's now easier to get in if you would have scored lower

>>12075316
GPA, which isn't a great measure alone because the curriculum at one high school can be much more difficult than the curriculum at a different high school. Extra curriculars, which are very subjective.

>>12075268
why are proglodytes so f*cked in the head?

>>12075304
you are a liar.

>>12075326
that sounds fucked up

>>12075316
>SAT
GPA, rec letters, your essay, your outside experience, AP tests
>GRE
Rec letters and research. Which is good because fuck the GRE and fuck ETS, the test is just SAT 2.0 that you have to drop $100 on to prove you're not a retard, and then pay to send it to every grad school.

>>12075268
going to take a wild guess that it has something to do with equality, diversity, judeo-bolshevism, inclusion, the lgbtp community, chinese communism, central banking and black lives matter

>>12075268
They lowered Asian scores and boosted black scores, but that just made the Asians study harder, get more extracurricular, and take an even larger scare of California university admissions.

With SAT/ACT scores being scrapped, blacks can finally get a fair shake at being admitted.

>>12075365
>lowered asian scores and boosted black scores
you're just talking out of your ass. they didn't alter fucking standardized test scores

>>12075345
No, I am not. You can look up correlation with success yourself.

>>12075373
He's white or hispanic
He does this all over 4chan
He uses asians to knock the blacks

>>12075268
It's amazing that objective aptitude tests lasted as long as they did for educational admissions, they're just too useful a tool for discovering truth and effectively selecting intelligent students.
Very problematic and racist af

>>12075393
>pay $3000 for a 3 month SAT prep course
>boost your score by a minimum of 300 points
alternatively
>go to a well-funded school district
>material is geared towards SAT/ACT prep in your Junior year
>free after school prep courses, practice tests
many such cases

yeah these sure test "objective aptitude" my retard

>>12075399
Alternatively, go to Khan Academy, get free prep material and ten or so practice tests. If you don't have a laptop or internet access, go to a public library. Kids today actually have options, whereas just a decade ago you really would have needed a tutor or prep course.

>>12075345
burden of proof is on you buddeh

>>12075410
yeah because these are totally equivalent

>>12075399
But that happens even even in countries with free schooling and where private schools are pretty much illegal. some people will still pay thousands of euros for courses that train them towards a specific entrance exam.

>>12075386
i did. it disagrees with you.

>>12075413
the correlation between intelligence (or metrics devised to measure intelligence) and relative success in life is well known, firmly established, and intuitively obvious. if you want to claim contrary, you have a big hill to climb.

>>12075419
so you're agreeing with me, then? I'm saying there's no such thing as an "objective aptitude test"

>>12075414
I think they can be, and research shows prep courses boost total SAT scores by about 30 points. The prep courses are pretty much a sham.

To feed more money via larger student enrollments, into the academic industrial complex. They don't care if it wastes tax dollars and generates personal debt. If Tyrone doesn't graduate. He got to go to college. So a bunch of white liberals can wank themselves off. When he should have been rejected and directed to vocational education. Where he can succeed and become a productive member of society, with less debt and baggage.

>>12075389
Jesus Christ, take your meds

>>12075438
As soon as you do misunderstood ubermensch/temporarily embarrassed conquistador

Good. Fuck college board, they don't deserve a single penny. Same with ACT and ETS, they all deserve to be burned.
"Pay $75 dollars to send this number to your school :)" go fuck yourselves. This is the definition of a monopoly and yet nothing is being done.

>>12075442
duopoly*

>>12075422
>the correlation between intelligence (or metrics devised to measure intelligence) and relative success in life is well known, firmly established, and intuitively obvious. if you want to claim contrary, you have a big hill to climb.
We are talking about the correlation between a high ATC score and graduation rates, which is the only thing that matters to schools.
I say this as someone who helped with the major study that got GREs thrown out at most grad schools: Correlation between GRE and success in grad school is actually negative at best, not significant at worst.
You should maybe stop bullshitting and start looking at real studies (lets start with those not funded by the GRE Inc.)

Colleges should have unique entrance exams and fuck the essay.

The exam should test the ability to pass first year course exams. Ensuring a basic level of knowledge and skills before admission.

>>12075439
bruh, that you think that statement is unique is sad. It's the default attitude of anyone that lives in California, which is guess is mostly white and Latino.

>>12075453
*yawn*
whatever you say, liar.

>>12075454
>exam should test your ability to pass a class that you haven't taken
what did he mean by this

>>12075460
>no proof
sems like I've won our argument
No one can show a correlation between ACT and graduation rate.

Math is racist.

>>12075464
I got a 36 and I graduated :)

>>12075373
They do fuck with Asians score tho. A huge chunk. The discrimination case against Harvard went through and justice department sided with the Asians

>>12075268
More niggers.

Reminder that people actually believe math is racist because when you take a large enough sample size mathematical ability correlates perfectly to melanin content in your skin.

>>12075461
BASICALLY difficult high school senior year questions.

>>12075470
>highest qualified sat scores
>lowest rate of admission

>>12075472
Forgot pic

>>12075268
standards are racist

>>12075470
They don't "mess with the scores" though. They're just accepting a higher proportion of blacks and hispanics with lower scores. What you said implied that there was some tampering of the actual number you get.

>>12075472
I dated a Indian girl in college. She was pretty dark and embarrassed the grad student TAs in geometry and algebra.

>>12075480

>>12075484
They tamper with it when you compare baseline as white American. Or maybe you want to consider Asians as baseline and then give everyone else 140-410+ boosts. In either case, its clear discrimination.

>>12075478
Harvard uses personality scores, which are based on nothing really.

>>12075454
they pass everybody anyway. its just a business to saddle students with debt. college admissions has been declining for a decade so colleges are getting desperate dropping standards.

>>12075488
Personality scores are the underlying way to cut out the Asians from harvard, as found by DOJ.

>>12075454
Essays are basic English comprehension test. If you can't understand the language, then its gonna be hard.

>>12075464
>No one can show a correlation between ACT and graduation rate.
that’s simply because graduation rates are what is most easily manipulated. if smart people actually had a chance in today’s world then there’d be a massive paradigm shift in favor of smart people as opposed to those who seem politically desirable

unfortunately the “meritocracy “ has not worked out in favor of people with merit

>>12075500
"merit" is determined by the society you nitwit. there's no such thing as "objective merit"

>>12075502
i agree, however there need to be standards. people who do jack shit in terms of contributing to science should be judged negatively, while those who actually contribute should be judged positively. however, the system in wchich we live judges scientists an an alternative set of criteria where “identity” enters in such a way that it outweighs actual merit, and that is wrong

>>12075268
They're finally going full leftwing indoctrination mode.

>>12075399
>What are libraries
>What are used bookstores
>What is the internet
What you said could have been an excuse a long time ago but for the past few decades information has been either cheaply or freely available and especially in the past 10-15 years you could learn almost anything on the internet which is the biggest fucking library in human history. If a certain ethnic group is failing SAT at this day and age it's because they're browsing worldstarhiphop.com instead of educational websites. Plenty of people like myself succeeded even though they never went to prep courses or a good school, so fuck off with your subhuman apologist bullshit.

>>12075502
low iq

>>12075499
If there wasn't a minimum length. Then I wouldn't mind. I could knock it out in a half or three quarters of a page.

Good, the more dumb people going into massive debt for degrees, the better it is for smart people. One more brick crumbling in the for profit uni system. Facebook/Google announce no requirement for degrees last week. Let's get smart people straight into the workforce while people continue to go into debt to fund increasingly useless degrees, it's a win from all sides.

>>12075539
Musk started this trend. He has been really lax with education requirements.

>>12075422
You sound like a repulsive sellout, who worships nothing but $

>>12075539
>Facebook/Google announce no requirement for degrees last week.
how else are they going to meet their diversity requirements?

>>12075539
Americans are kind of late to the game but congratulations. Now start to train people inside companies and vocational schools (which your company pays for you) like they do in Germany and a lot of of high school graduates won't have to go to university anymore to get a high paying job.

The college board is jewish anyone who disagrees is also jewish.

>>12075290
Not anymore, look up ACA 5. Our SC overturned the ruling against affirmative action.

>>12075268
It's a stupid test that wastes everybody's time. It measures nothing meaningful. It's about time they got rid of it.

sat/act are a colossal meme though. I skipped the sat/act and went to community college (cause I was poor, mostly). Now I'm in my 4th year PhD and all my hs cohort is doing meaningless garbage back home

So they can make more money with college sports, the dumb ones can’t get accepted in otherwise.

>>12075359
Yea this. Fuck ETS, charging for $30/per school to send out to more than 5 universities. I already dropped over a $100 bucks on your faggot test, fuck you ETS I can't wait till you go out of business

Everyone in the first world doesn't need these tests for college. I got admitted without a test to a top 100 university

Europe doesn't use entrance exams. Nice try america hahaha

>>12075268
Tbh school is racist it should be banned

If anything this just means I will get into UCLA despite my dogshit SAT scores

Wish me luck bros

>>12075268

It's not as if determining a person's future off of basically a handful of tests was ever a good idea
You think anybody cares what Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos tests scores were? It simply doesn't matter in the real world so why should it matter to schools hunting for that prestige of creating the next Gates or Bezos
All test scores and grades indicate is how good someone is at following directions and those aren't the people who are going to fully take advantage of a higher education and use it in any special way

Tests should assess how good someone's reasoning skills are. These tests suck because they assess how good students are at learning specific test taking rules. But if you're saying that it's impossible to test reasoning, that's ridiculous. There is a huge difference between someone who uses bad reasoning to argue a conclusion that doesn't follow from given assumptions and someone who uses good reasoning. The latter will do well in science and humanities. You do not want badly trained retards polluting universities who cannot use good reasoning. That's how a lot of evidence less "science" with bad theory gets published or parroted by undergrads who should not be in university in the first place but graduate due to a corrupt system. Universities can be infiltrated by people with horrible reasoning skills with political agendas. So re-do the sat from scratch but don't throw out exams that tell the difference between someone who thinks circular reasoning is valid vs someone who can call out that bullshit.

>>12075268
Is this slightly misleading? I thought they didn't want to -require- the tests to be submitted, but students can still take the tests and submit them if they want to.

>>12075488
>Harvard uses personality scores, which are based on nothing really

'Personality scores' based on ethnicity.

The top universities in the world are soon all going to be in Asia.

PISA scores reproduce the SAT hierarchy. I'm not aware of anywhere which trains for that test.

>>12076997
Why do so many people in China come to the West for university but not vice versa?

>>12075268
What this means is there will be a race to the bottom as parents enroll their children in the easiest high school they can find. Other schools will respond by making it easier to get a 4.0. As long as they're run by minorities, ACS WASC won't dare pull their accreditation. The quality of students at California universities will drop like a rock, as will their reputations. On the positive side, your neighborhood drug dealer will be able to graduate Cal magna cum laude with a Ph.D. in Ebonics.

>>12076983
>>12075365
>>12075386
>>12075393
>>12075399
>>12075419

Money plays no part in Black under-performance. To be smart is to be racist - according to the unwritten narrative.

>>12075268
All non-whites should die

>>12076031
>Now I'm in my 4th year PhD and all my hs cohort is doing meaningless garbage back home
So your high school classmates are busy working jobs while you're a eternal student who has contributed nothing to world other than sucking up resources provided by others, such as your old classmates from high schools who have jobs and pay taxes. Not sure why you feel so smug. Are you a cat?

>>12077014
That's temporary. It's just China stealing the only advantages we have left.
It's painfully obvious Chinese students are incentivized by their country to soak as much expertise as they can from our universities before going back home. I've been in contact with a few of them.

>>12075399
>SAT prep
You mean school? Idiot.

>>12075386
The University of California already studied and released a report on the validity of the SAT vs GPA and found it was pretty damn good and unbiased.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-02-03/uc-should-keep-sat-and-act-as-admission-requirements-faculty-report-says
Now it will just be interviews and high school GPA, which we all know are totally unbiased and correlated with success.

>>12075488
Someone can be a good human calculator with 0 intellectual creativity...

>>12075268
people have completely forgotten that standardized tests were created to help poor people by giving them a chance to prove themselves other than school work. Poor children have more responsibilities and do worse at school as a result. That image of "they replaced class war with race war" is seeming more and more accurate.

>>12075268
I dunno man.You work hard at school, they say grades vary from school to school. You study hard for the SATs, they stop using them in admissions. You do extracurriculars you enjoy, they say you did it for the application. You write the best essays you can, they say it's all cliche. It's all so tiresome. I went to a good school, but sometimes I wonder if I would have gotten in under this strange regime. Asians and Indians have it rough. All the downsides of being a minority, none of the benefits.

>>12077072
And those people go to college to learn all the axioms and functions to become useful mentor/resources for the creative.

>>12075399
i find it hilarious how people always try and make it seem like you have to have money to get a good education, when all the information exists online for free. dumb niggers complain about their socioeconomic and how whitey was able to afford SAT prep courses or went to a private school because the dumb nigger cannot figure out how to open google and search for free teaching materials online

>>12077098
>All the downsides of being a minority, none of the benefits.
Well, they're not black, so they've got that going for them.

>>12075268
because niggers can't spell

>>12075465
that's racist

>>12077030
Hey buddy. I'm guessing you couldn't hack it past gen chem/college algebra?

>>12075341
It think it's a general trait of ideologies in which the goal is considered inevitable.
Beige horizon => ideal and inevitable => has crazies.
Communism => ideal and inevitable => has crazies.
Globalism => ideal and inevitable => has crazies.
Traditional religions sort of have this too, just that the inevitable destination is in the afterlife.

If a movement considers it's end goal to be inevitable, it doesn't feel the need to work to create it - inevitability will create it for them.
This creates a destructive mentality, because other people doing what they are doing are just slowing down the process of inevitability creating the ideal world, and thus destroying gets them out of the way.

>>12075399
The other anons don't understand that a higher income makes a better score all the more attainable.
>muh other resources
That's not the point. This is an excellent post.

>>12077030
This sounds like a personally-motivated attack more than anything. Did a college grad fuck your gf?

>>12079396
>The other anons don't understand that a higher income makes a better score all the more attainable.
That's true because higher income earners are more likely to be intelligent and give birth to intelligent children.

>>12075290
Not for long, they are working on it if not already got it repealed

>>12075268
...should I transfer out there?

California's a shithole anyway, so many niggers, spics, other brown ethnicities, homeless, queers, just stay away, go to Texas or something for school you'll be much better off

>>12079535
>go to texas
name one school in texas that's even remotely close to the top 5 schools in california retard
rice is like, maybe better than UCLA and only in certain fields. they still have stanford, berkeley, caltech which blow your state (which is still infested with "niggers, spics, and other brown ethnicities") out of the water.

>>12075316
They will take anyone’s money. Why limit students?

>>12079406
Uh, not really the argument I'm making. Although
>muh library internet resources
is true, socioeconomic status allows students to have easier access to resources of substantially better quality. I think the same argument can be made for the MCAT, as a tailored course involving instruction from a professional is light years better than
>reading a book at a library
Lmao

>>12079542
nigger, spic, or other brown ethnicity detected.
if you really want prestige there's UT Austin. school prestige doesn't matter much anyway.

>>12079557
I'm a full-blood whitey idiot.
>prestige of UT austin
do you seriously, unironically think this compares to stanford or caltech? you're delusional
>prestige doesn't matter
it matters in STEM academia. the research coming out of texas schools is meager compared to california

>>12075268
ETS is a complete kike infested company that does nothing but scam universities and students. I’d prefer just take an IQ test instead of making students (minus the poos and Chinese) how to write a 5 paragraph essay only applicable to the test.
Most exams like these are a waste of time, GRE is similar. But in the name of muh diversity, that’s autism.exe

Fuck.

>>12079542
You are very naive, those schools have fallen hard your grades are based on your race and the campuses in California are like a Compton continuation school with bums at this point. The worst of the ghettos are getting full free rides to these schools. Private college>muh ivy league if you want to come to California for education and actual prestige. Theres a reason why any worthwhile place working hiring poaches from Cali private schools. While Disney and microsoft looks for slaves from muh ivy leagues.

But by all means come to California for "Ivy league" experience so I can send in a video to worldstar of you getting jumped by a gang of violent blacks because you didn't observe their moment of silence for a pedophile and kiss their shoes before being allowed to go to class.

>>12079542
>>12079535
are you a retard? Have you even been to california? For a day, a year, a month? Texas is overflowing with spics and niggers

>>12079752
your post has actually no coherence

>>12075290
Which is why they need another way to discriminate

imagine having to pay a (((non-profit))) third party for a test just so you can attend university. SAT and ACT tests are fucking retarded and no civilized country makes high school student take dated standardized tests just so they can go to university. High school grades are more than enough. Americans are fucking retarded

>>12079931
This lol.

I wasted 12 years in shithole called school, my civilized, european country realizes that (my HS grades even determined if I'll get government funding for my studies and yes, they're effectively free from me, thanks tax paying wagecucks)

Americans in general are fucking braindead and do everything backwards.

The main argument I've heard with these tests is "but rich people can pay for prep and it fucks poor people." However I think this exam is the least affected by prep. You can squeeze out a few hundred extra points on the SAT but you're not going from 1000 to 1500.
Prestigious universities basically rely on middle class smart kids for their prestige. The kids who got in on legacy or diversity aren't doing shit. And the current system is set up to really fuck middle class white people. Not poor enough to get assistance, not rich enough to make things easy. Not black and not elite legacy enough to get in easy.
A microcosm of how middle class whites (especially lower-middle class) are treated in society. Told they are privledged, that they have had a 400 year head start. Work hard and get jack shit in return. Capitalism for them but socialism for the rich and poor. No handouts given but expected to generate all the productivity.

>>12075422
The correlation with real life performance is extremely poor. Most intelligence mostly measure how much schizo you are. If you are high on the schizophrenia spectrum, you have the advantage of being able to talk with the wealthy, even though you are dumb as fuck in practice. (Since if you are much llower on the schizophrenia spectrum,you have no idea what their vague and tandential babbling means, and the reverse, if you are much higher everyone seems like a fraud who constantly pretends and gives false hints. And virtually all upper clas is extremely schizo.)

>>12075268
This is a symptom of the mainstream acceptance of the cultural marxism, which started under the Obama administration and accelerated under Trump. You will see more and more of this bending over backwards to try to artificially create a system where niggers are not underrepresented in measures of success.

It's going to be temporarily painful, but the good thing is that reality always wins, and the whole system will eventually collapse under the nigger burden, laying bare nigger incompetence for all to see, and allowing for the rebuilding of a society which is niggerfrei.

>>12077042
Imagine thinking this.

>>12080170
So you say we should disapprove of such action, but see no need to interfere because it is unsustainable in the long run?
What if I dont want any system to collaps. Isnt it worth the effort to avoid these problems in the first place? why sit back idle while whole generations are sacrificed to a false god?

>>12080170
>the whole system will eventually collapse under the nigger burden, laying bare nigger incompetence for all to see

Sorry, it does not work that way. Each generation feels the previous one did not go far enough. ANY failure by blacks will be blames on racism. If they can not identify exactly WHAT is racist, then they will blame is on systemic racism.
Liberal progressives will never believe is racial intellectual differences, EVER!
Any evidence will be labeled racist and ignored by them.

>>12080158
mental health correlates positively with IQ. Schizophrenia is one of the most impactful illnesses.
Take your baseless babbling elsewhere.

>>12079808
>Texas is overflowing with spics and niggers
there's spics but they stay in the sewers where they belong

>>12079554
>is true, socioeconomic status allows students to have easier access to resources of substantially better quality.
But I feel like that's less of a factor now than in the past. Even many poor families have home internet access and affordable tablets or notebooks. Kids have a lot of resources available to them to self-learn, they need to be proactive if they care about their education.

>reading a book at a library
I'm from a poor area, our library still had dozens of computers and a quiet study area. The majority of teens that came in then used those computers to play video games, some of them during school hours when they should have been in class.

What I mainly took issue with was the other anon's assessment that SAT prep courses boost scores by 300 points. Studies show it's more like 30 points. Meanwhile, simply taking a practice test, and then testing again, boosts scores by 60 points. There's dozes of practice tests available to anyone who wants them online. Khan Academy in particular will even direct the student to areas of review for the questions they missed.

>>12075424
No retard, even among people who spend the same sum of money for prep there are differences in intelligence that you can find with a test

>>12080176
What's on the SAT that isn't taught in regular class?

>>12075268
The law school at my university just did something similar to increase specifically black enrollment. Now black students need only write an essay on how they've experienced racism to gain admittance. Literally everyone is silently shaking their heads in dismay, but too afraid to say anything lest they be labelled racist.

>>12080199
>why sit back idle
because they will fucking kill you (literally - being cancelled will eventually lead to your death) if you don't

Because people can't take it right now due to coronavirus quarantine. Most schools in the entire United States are going that route and making it at the very least optional.

I never understood the notion Asians have that white culture prioritizes test scores and GPA. How many kids get academic scholarships compared to sports?

Creativity, individuality, and leadership are still important to R&D.

>>12077056
>they couldnt even find blacks with >3.0 gpa
lmfao

>>12081841
okay please point me to a test that
1) can be taken by anyone
2) cannot be studied/prepared for
3) reflects the OBJECTIVE intelligence of the test taker.

>>12083064
>not knowing the difference between > and <
please leave this website and visit >>>/pol/

>>12083048
How do measure or compare creativity,individuality and leadership ?

>>12082108
>being cancelled will eventually lead to your death
Lol being promoted will too, eventually.

>>12083332
no. not in the near term. if you lose your job and reputation you lose the chance to live a normal life, end up on the streets, and die.

its as bad as being accused (and proven innocent) of rape. you never lose the stigma, and your life is effectively over

cancel culture is psychotic

>>12080329
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25752725/

>>12083440
>Schizophrenia patients are typically found to have low IQ both pre- and post-onset, in comparison to the general population. However, a subgroup of patients displays above average IQ pre-onset.
did you even read your own fucking source?

>>12083451
Did you finish reading the part that you quote?

>>12083466
>subgroup
you have no idea what “correlation” means, do you?
Yes, variance is higher in schizophrenia, but the average is shifted to the left significantly compared to the general population.

You call that a bucket? We just decriminalized gifted education 5 years ago. Harrison Bergeron would be embarrassed of you.

>>12077075
It's like the bong socialists tearing down the grammar schools they build all over again. It makes me sad.

>>12083226
Extracurricular, Personal Statement (this is the biggest one), Internships, Projects

It's never a good sign if your profile fits the "I played an instrument because my mom told me too"

>>12079984
I went from 70th to 99.4th percentile studying for our SAT equivalent for 2 or three weeks in HS.