/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12065560
ayy lmao

>>12065560
It could be they have 100% conversion of energy into matter and perfect refrigeration systems so the dyson sphere ends up the same temperature as regular space.

>>12065560
>inb4 real dyson spheres never got tried lmao

>>12065575
Or, more simply
>Capture the entire output of the fucking star other than gravity
>We can't seem to detect anything because nothing is given off
>"Hurr durr no dyson spheres lol btw gee where is all this DARK MATTER gravity coming from lolol?"

i didnt ban them, did you?

>>12065624
>>12065575
this violates thermodynamics, there will ALWAYS be waste heat

>>12065560
or you know, maybe we are the only intelligent civilization in the galaxy? simplest explanations are usualy correct..

>>12065632
Capture it too.

open your eyes

there is a type 3 civilization out there that forbids dyson swarms

>>12065732
>there is a type 3 civilization out there that forbids dyson swarms

Even type 3 cannot do it. You need type 4 (civilization controlling entire galactic superclusters). Otherwise we would see shadows of Dyson swarms in other galaxies.

Just face it, we are alone.

>>12065560
Dyson spheres can't actually be built.

>>12065560
a thread died for this shitpost

>>12065748
why not?
you aren't one of those brainlets that thinks its a solid shell, are you?

>>12065748
Dyson swarms can

>>12065755
Neither swarms nor spheres can be built
>>12065765
Nope

>>12065560
ayy lmao

>>12065560
>>12065741
Why are you assuming dyson swarms or spheres are some benchmark for cvilization? There are probably much better and more efficient ways of harvesting energy, like extracting it from a controlled singularity.

Imagine thinking a "type 3" civilization or whatever you call it would still be using solar energy like some retarded bare ape from Earth.

>>12065632
>>12065647
Thick dyson sphere

>>12065832

I love how you think that controlled artificial singularities are more likely to happen than dyson spheres

We Will Never Meet Aliens.
The Earth is too rare to happen twice in this universe.
Look at all the coincidences the Earth went through.
It's like sorting a deck of cards correctly.
It would take 52 factorial tries.

>>12065914
A type 3 civilization that has mastered interstellar travel and megastructure engineering would have better ways of harvesting energy.

This is common sense.
Think of the staggering amounts of energy needed to mine the staggering amounts of resources you would need to build a Dyson swarm and place it in orbit.

It's like asking why Humans haven't built giant steampunk airships for air travel. Because by the time we figured out how we would build one of those technology had advanced beyond them. An Airbus can house as many people and travel at speeds much faster and safer than any airship.

The challenges involved in building a dyson sphere are so staggering that the technology required to build them would be more advanced than the Dyson Sphere itself.

>>12065560
Humans are so fucking stupid jesus christ.

>>12065560
There's a monumental swarm of alien objects that block our view of the galaxy core.

>>12065741
We are not seeing the universe as it is. We are only seeing in from the past and we have only been looking for about 60 years. 60 years is so small that relative to human you haven't even been born yet.

>>12065560
All those Dyson (something) are bullshit.

Look at sci-fi from 30 years ago, they completely failed at predicting future. We have no idea how technology will look like hundreds of years into the future.

>>12065624
>capture the entire output
You can't. If you contain the energy of a continously burning star in a finite amount of mass, the average temperature is going to go up and your dyson sphere will melt

>>12065773
t. 70 IQ

>>12066147
TNG predicted touchscreens.

>>12065632
What if they're bouncing it into black holes?

fucking Bob kept missing the energy receptor and burning half the planet to ashes so it was banned

>>12068550
Which were developed in the 60's and first seen in the seventies. Great predictions for a late 80's tv show

>>12065560
Why does everyone think multicellular life is so likely to develop elsewhere in the universe? Seems to me the odds of getting single celled lifeforms to cooperate and form another lifeform are so remote as to be practically impossible.

>>12065632
Don’t waste it then

>>12070045
Because the universe is huge and even if there was a 0.0000000000000000000000001% chance of complex life forming due to the size of it there would be plenty of life.

>>12070611
Yeah but the lack of any signals or other signs of alien life seems to indicate it might be a lot rarer than we think.

>>12065560
>It's the only explanation why we haven't detected any yet.
Numerous candidates have been found

http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/research/seti/seti1.html
>A second impressive series of searches has been carried out by the Harvard SETI group. Their Project META which operated from 1985 until 1994 found 37 candidate events but none has been observed in follow up observations.

http://home.fnal.gov/~carrigan/infrared_astronomy/Fermilab_search.htm
The search focused on a temperature range of 100 to 600 �K leaving about 6521 sources. No cut was made on proximity to other sources. By doing this partial Dyson spheres were not ruled out. As noted on the Dyson Sphere look-alike page there are several natural surrogates that are difficult to rule out. Several cuts were used on the LRS sample to focus in on a Dyson Sphere signature. These included temperature, classification, and visual scans in SIMBAD. This led to a sample of 17 weak and ambiguous candidates

>>12065632
yes, so a Dyson Sphere would look exactly like a red dwarf, the most common kind of star

>>12070611
>0.0000000000000000000000001%
Well, we don't know about the real percentage, so we might truly be alone.

>>12070848
A Dyson sphere is such a retarded concept.
A literal sphere would not be stable, everything that isn't on the equator of the sphere (the poles especially) would fall down inside the star.

>>12070716
We've barely scanned fucking anything and only started not that long ago.

the problem is that we are probably alone in our galaxy and we will never interact with aliens from other galaxys because it's too far away. even when we succesfully conquer space, we will never be able to reach another galaxy because of the distance. once our galaxy crashes with another galaxy humans are dead. we have some million (maybe billion, would have to do some research on that) years left before we have to say goodbye and nobody will ever know that we existed. there is no need to be scared of the universes death, because we will die way before that happens.

>>12070888
>checked

only brainlets would suggest an actual solid sphere. a Dyson "Sphere" implies a swarm of satellites around a star thick enough to block most of the light leaving the star. those satellites would be at varying orbits including polar orbits. It would actually look more like a giant doughnut around the star.

>>12070848
>Dyson Sphere
You need to figure out megaengineering, special materials and how to travel at relativistic speeds in order to acquire and mine the staggering amount of resources to build something on the scale of a Dyson Sphere.

Any society seeking to do that, would need to figure out how to obtain insane amounts of energy to do it. Hence, any society that could figure out how to build a Dyson Sphere would have no need for it.

Stop pushing this retarded scifi concept.

>>12071199
>relativistic speeds
why

even a partial dyson swarm produces a shitload of energy. the only things you need to make a Dyson sphere are good mining and construction robots that can strip mine asteroids and dwarf planets and construct solar satellites with minimal oversight.

>>12069446
what about the otherside of those reflectors. those would still leak a small amount of heat

>>12071211
Notice how you are scaling back your claims, from a Dyson Sphere (>>12070848) to a Dyson Swarm that "obstructs most of the light from the star" (>>12071192) to a "partial Dyson Swarm".

So you agree that the amount of resources and thus energy needed to build a Dyson Sphere or Swarm, that would be noticeable from Earth (OP premise), is staggering.

>>12071232
I am claiming that it doesn't take much energy to START making a Dyson Swarm. as the swarm gets bigger, more energy can be allocated to building the swarm.

there is also a staggering amount of of resources in the solar system so thats not a problem. if you strip mined all of mercury and some of the larger dwarf planets you could make a full swarm. that is also ignoring technologies like star lifting that can extract metals from a star for construction. there is no need to travel outside the solar system for more material.

>>12071251
>if you strip mined all of mercury and some of the larger dwarf planets you could make a full swarm.
You would need to strip mine all of the inner planets of a solar system to build a full swarm. We would need to destroy Earth to do it.
Not. Practical.

There's probably no intelligent life other than humanity in the universe.

>>12071271
>posting on my computer with my shitty dark mode extension.

volume of mercury / the area of a 10 solar radius sphere = average thickness of sphere

>>12070716
We don't see anything because we literally can't see anything yet.

>>12071232
Dyson himself never, ever proposed a solid structure. He was always writing about a swarm of satellites and habitats.

>>12071340
something tells me mercury isn't completely made out of Dyson Swarm materials.
Unless it is, I don't know.

>>12065560
They kill any indigenous populations of those solar system. Fuckin libs, ruining science and progress one law at a time..

>>12071839
It is

The galaxy isn't real. Does anyone seriously think there are no civilizations capable of using all that burning mass, harnessing all that energy in our entire lightcone?

If the stars were real, they'd be used by now. The existance of our civilization indicates galactic civilization is possible: the fact that the galaxy's still there means it isn't real.

>>12072117
Bro most of those stars are far away enough that a society could have built all kinds of shit and collapsed by now before the light reaches us

>>12072117
this is your brain on neosciencism

>>12072166

Milky way is only a few hundred thousand lightyears and has hundreds of billions of planets. We'd know if they were building/dying.

the upper limit for us colonizing the galaxy is 50 million years the galaxy has been here for 11 billion years we should have been colonized by now

we are alone in the galaxy or something is very wrong

>>12065560
the amount of planets and stars we have actually studied are actually pretty tiny

>>12065632
What if somehow blackholes and whiteholes could collide and conserve the heat from the dyson swarm??? yeah I love science1!!!

>>12065941
Yet we are talking about colonizing other plants for more lebensraum. Dyson swarms are to colonizing planets, what quarrying rock to build houses is to living in caves. A single mountain may have a couple of good caves to live in, but consists of enough building material to cover a continent in stone houses.
Living in rotating habitats is not only hugely more mass efficient, but also energy efficient in that you live in vacuum and have cheap sunlight flowing all the time, travel is between habitats is very cheap due to no deep gravity well to escape etc. Not to mention the fact that a Dyson swarm is essentially immune to all the planet killing natural disasters that can happen, like giant meteors, radiation bursts etc.

>>12071232
>amount of resources

whoever brings up this "argument" only proves he got no clue, a Dyson sphere/starm is mostly foil mirrors, you don't need much resources or advanced technology, once you can build orbital mirrors or solar sails you are ready

>>12065941
>Think of the staggering amounts of energy needed to mine the staggering amounts of resources you would need to build a Dyson swarm and place it in orbit.
it's not actually that much, and a dedicated effort could have a self-sustainable number of Dyson Swarm sections up by 2100

>>12065632
But temperature will keep getting lower when the sphere grows right? So if it was big enough, it would emit 3K radiation like CBM.

It's actually possible to create a simulation of this universe or unique universes so aliens just live through that to bypass the limitations of this one. All of the advanced species are just alone in their computers. They've already met perfectly "real" iterations of us they don't need to actually bother trying to cross the vastness of space the hard way to reach "us".

>>12070045
Because on Earth life developed right after the surface stopped being lava and water gathered.

>>12065635
this or they are just not advanced enough

>>12072763
We still don't know the proper conditions required for life from non-life.

>>12065832

This. Imagine thinking fucking solar panels are the ultimate energy source in the universe and nothing better can exist. No advanced fission or fusion reactors, no black hole Hawking radiation power plants, its solar panels to the end of time.

Dyson swarms probably dont exist because there are simply better alternatives for energy generation.

>>12065560
How do you know they are?
Why isn't the entire night sky lit up by endless star light?

>>12072845
It is, the light is just very weak from that distance.

>>12072778
Why haven't humans discovered anything more advanced than the fire that monkeys first utilized?

>No advanced fission or fusion reactors
That is what a star is, why burn up the earth or make another giant fire when they are already burning everywhere, the energy would be lost otherwise, and it would take more energy to recreate than to capture starpower?

>>12072848
>from that distance.
If the galaxy was completely filled with stars instead of dyson swarms, the distance would be much shorter and light much brighter than the dim light from most stars that we see from other galaxies.

>>12072852
They're filled with as many stars as evolution of the universe up to this point produced. And light being dim just means our eyes or instruments aren't sensitive enough.

>>12072845
Because the IR signatures of a Dyson swarm would be very distinctive, and hiding it completely requires a galaxy sized object.
Same principle as being certain that no one is using an antimatter powered drive anywhere near our system, as it produces a very distinctive energy signature that can not be mistaken for anything else.

>>12072778
dyson swarms dont use solar panels they use directional reflectors to directly heat generators.

>>12072778
Its impressive that not only do you not think of stars as a fusion reactor, but your entire understanding of extracting heat from the sun boils down to fucking solar panels. SOLAR PANELS? SOLAR PANELS????? ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT WE COULD DO WITH A HEAT SOURCE LIKE THAT IF WE ACTUALLY BUILT RIGHT NEXT TO IT???????

>>12065560
jannies banned them, because they opened warnings in new tab without reading

>>12072861
>They're filled with as many stars as evolution of the universe up to this point produced.
Yes including the dyson swarm technology that evolved to obscure most of the star light and makes our sky dim compared to how it would be if there were no other alien civilizations harvesting star power.

>>12072849
>That is what a star is, why burn up the earth or make another giant fire when they are already burning everywhere, the energy would be lost otherwise, and it would take more energy to recreate than to capture starpower?
Because fusion power can be small and portable, a Dyson Swarm is giant, cumbersome, static, and takes generations to build.

>>12071878
lol

>>12065560
>muh Dysons

Where are flying cars? Cryosleep? Holographic TV?

Few decades ago sci-fi people thought all of those will be real by 2000. Alongside moon bases. Science don't progress in the way we think it will. Ever.

>>12072741
>a Dyson sphere/starm is mostly foil mirrors

No it's not. It's literally never showed as such. Dyson Spheres are simply a stupid fictional concept that will never be a thing. The moment your civilization masters fusion they are pointless. And at real high end black holes are far better in every way.

Really advanced civilizations may be building artificial planets but Dyson spheres are 100% fantasy. Nobody would ever need something so enormous and pointless.

In few centuries we will all be living in VR 99% of the time anyways.

>>12065560
Because it's useless dreamy pipetalk.

In fact there are better way of obtaining power...

>>12065647
>creates even more waste heat in the process

>>12065560
I don't see why aliens would put a swarm of vacuum cleaners in space.

its cuz of the ayy environmentalists, fuckin space liberals

>>12072972
What could we do with it?

believing in aliens is a religion

>>12074155
you obviously got all your "knowledge" from Star Wars or some other space fantasy

You don't even understand that a dyson sphere actually means to master fusion on a bigger scale anybody can imagine.

>>12065560
Great Filter and not enough stars checked.

Also maybe they can build it stealthily, simulating natural phenomena or capuring all of the star's energy output - so it's invisible to us...

>>12076108
You would need material from multiple systems to fully enclose a star. And no surrounding it with solar panels is not a good idea.

It's bullshit and will always be bullshit. Stars are not even very efficient at fusion. The moment you master fusion it would be 1000x better to make your own planet size fusion reactor than Dysons.

>>12076591
A Dyson Sphere/Swarm is just what happens once a civilisation is in space long enough. Just like we gradually surrounded earth with satellites we will fill our solar systems with more and more space stations, habitats, factories and mirrors to direct energy where we want it. At some point it starts dimming our star.

>>12065560

Because they are a dual-use technology, and the Islamic Republic of Andromeda has not respected the rule of law

>>12070716
or they just prefer the comfy mud hut life. all it takes to regress is a few hundred million climate change refugees with machetes. if you think we'll still have a civilisation capable of complex technological and economic development in 100 years you're being very optimistic.

>>12067706
What if the inside of your dyson sphere is reflective?