/sci/ - Science & Math

lol

>>12056454
>We destroyed the economy for nothing
>Argentina
You can't destroy what was already dead.

>>12056454
How bad is it there argie bro? Did many big companies close or went bankrupt? Is the government accumulating even more debt?
Where you from btw?

>>12056458
Bruh, we are going to be the next Venezuela because of this retarded fucking government.
People here are fed up, there's going to be a social explosion.

>>12056460
>Did many big companies close or went bankrupt?
20,000 small and medium companies went bankrupt in 8 months. Most airlines are leaving the country. Large companies still doing OK. Government is printing money like crazy to try to prop up the house of cards.
Is the government accumulating even more debt?

>>12056468
Burger here, I was always of the impression that Argentina was the one country in SA that really had it's shit together. Good climate, farming, central capital city on a river, mostly European population. What happened,?

>>12056468
Fuck, sad to hear. I was born in argentina but moved to canada with my family when I was still young. Pretty depressing to see my home country get worse each year, specially as it was a powerhouse not even 100 years ago.

Any chance things can still change in your opinion? From what I heard from my family that is still there, the system is completely rotten and complete collapse is just a matter of time.

>>12056454
It looks like your just headed for a peak of 10 per M like everyone else, the total lockdown just means that you and New Zealand just put off what was going to happen anyway at the cost of the economy.

>>12056478
Peronism, which is a weird ideology which basically combines socialism, nationalism, protectionism and state intervention in the economy.

Before Peron, Argentina was an export powerhouse and one of the top 3 richest countries in the world in GDP per capita.

Even as recently as the 1990s life was pretty good, same GDP per capita as South Korea in 1998, because there were a series of free market reforms, sadly they were based on a peg to the dollar that was overvalued, there was an economic crisis, and the interventionist socialist peronist types won the elections again, and made a mess.

What your typical peronist does is increase government spending to unsustainable levels, leave the country saddled with debt and problems, and then try to destabilize the new government when they are opposition. They control all the unions in the country for this purpose. They also bring millions of illegals and give them citizenship in exchange for welfare and more votes.

>>12056480
There's going to be a radical change but I do not know in which direction.

>>12056487
Exactly right

>>12056487
>the total lockdown just means that you and New Zealand
NZ and Argentina aren't even close to similar at this point.

>>12056509
He has a point though, Spain is going through a second wave and there's talk of another lockdown. It would have been better to just let it rip like Sweden did.

>>12056514
In a scenario where there's no vaccine, I agree, but that's not NZ's aim. Argentina has spiraled out of control, but NZ's managed to keep everything contained for six months.

>>12056525
NZ is an island. They also did not have the longest lockdown in the world that we had here.
Even being an island, the virus entered NZ because of meat imports.

Most countries are not islands.
They have even less of a chance of containing this through hamfisted lockdowns.

>>12056454
>LOCKDOWNS DON'T WORK
regards someone who lives in the northeastern US which has some of the lowest COVID-19 death rates in the country and is already reopening

>>12056541
I could have typed the same a month ago about my country. You are not getting it.

>>12056538
I'm not saying NZ didn't have certain advantages, I just don't necessarily agree that they're going to end up like everyone else. *If* there's a safe and efficacious vaccine available in six months, NZ may very well get out of this with under 100 deaths. If the current vaccines end up being failures or there's significant delays, then that changes things obviously.

I'm not familiar with everything Argentina has done. I do notice the test rate is very low. How strict are the lockdowns?

>>12056557
I'm saying that cases in the northeast are lower than in the midwest or southeast (aka Whitetrashistan) I'm not saying its been completely eradicated.

>>12056565
>I'm not saying NZ didn't have certain advantages, I just don't necessarily agree that they're going to end up like everyone else. *If* there's a safe and efficacious vaccine available in six months, NZ may very well get out of this with under 100 deaths
That's a big if to bet your entire economy on.
If the virus mutates, how effective is the vaccine going to be?

I agree NZ has the greatest chance of getting it right, out of every other country, because of its uniquely isolated geographic position. What I'm saying is that not every country has the chance of replicating this experiment. And a lot of countries have controlled the virus without resorting to lockdowns, like South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Uruguay.

>I'm not familiar with everything Argentina has done. I do notice the test rate is very low. How strict are the lockdowns?
First foreigners had to stay in quarantine for 20 days. Then the lockdown was extended to the entire country on March 19.

Lockdown was very strict for the first month.
You could only leave your house to walk your dog, shop for groceries, medicine, medical or veterinary emergencies. Only essential businesses remained open. Face masks are mandatory and police was patrolling the streets enforcing the lockdown. Schools are still closed and borders are closed except for citizens.

Then in May they introduced some flexibilization, allowed people to take their kids on a walk once a week, allowed people to go running or similar sports, etc.

By June most of the country was open except the city of Buenos Aires and its metropolitan area which is under a different jurisdiction.

Now in the capital non-essential businesses are being allowed to open, because cases there are falling, whereas in the metropolitan area the lockdown persists but cases are skyrocketing and nobody is paying attention to it anymore because small businesses need to work.
The provinces that have been open for a while are getting COVID-19 cases again.

>>12056591
* foreigners and nationals that had arrived from overseas too

>>12056541
Holy fuck you guys are retarded.

As a Russian, during the last half-year I realized two things:
1)Russia is, in fact, an oppressive shithole.
2)A lot of "free" countries turned out to be vastly more oppressive.

>>12056541
>and is already reopening
...and what will happen then?

>>12056612
The US, while a shitty country and shitty government in many ways, is one of the least oppressive countries in the world in terms of oppression from the government. Way less so than Russia.

There's a lot more societal pressure in the US compared to most other countries, but governmental pressure is very little.

>>12056617
Probably not much, because this is the part of the US that isn't mesmerized by conspiracy theories, so almost everyone will be wearing a mask.

>>12056657
As Scandinavia shows, masks bring only harm.

NZfag here, economy is in absolute fucking shambles, government not releasing unemployment figures, every single one of my friends has been laid off. Tourism is also glassed for the foreseeable future and that provided shitloads of jobs to rural centres which are going to be ghost towns shortly. All over a coof with a 0.2% mortality rate

>>12056681
Nothing that can't be fixed by importing some more Muslims.

>>12056487
I'm from New Zealand and I hate hearing about our country so much. Especially hearing these fucking reddit tier opinions of how great we supposedly are. I criticised Jacinda Ardern privately to another NZer about some domestic issue (we're both stuck in Australia right now) and had some Australian unironic redditor bitch tell me to shut the fuck up about Jacinda.
I fucking hate how everyone has this retarded opinion of our crushingly expensive shithole being a paradise.

>>12056805
That's probably going to happen now that Winston looks like he's not getting back into government this time.

>>12056541
Hopefully the virus mutates, peaks again, and kills 30% of your pseudo lockdown states (reminder, you kept the drive thrus open, allowed cloth masks, and didn't track residents, or jail and fine violators so it doesn't count, only successful lockdown as by the CCP). I'll be praying for it.

t. 159 IQ

>>12056541
Hopefully the virus mutates, peaks again, and kills 30% of your pseudo lockdown states (reminder, you kept the drive thrus open, allowed cloth masks, and didn't track residents, or jail and fine violators so it doesn't count, only successful lockdown as by the CCP), and you and your entire family. I'll be praying for it.

t. 159 IQ

>>12056454
shut up, put your mask on, wash your hands, and stay home, faggot.

>>12056831
Look at it from a political perspective, its going to win Horsey the next election. In the minds of the plebs she can do no wrong. Very few understand anything more complicated than their feels and memes. Labour cottoned onto that. Economic devastation? Who cares? Its all way too much to comprehend. Saving a few fat fucks and some coffin dodgers? Priceless.

>>12056681
>>12056831
NZ and the rest of Australia are shitting themselves after what happened in VIC which just shows how fragile lock down theory is, basically we're fucked until a vaccine becomes viable.
Sweden on the other hand is basically out of the woods, even if the virus mutates there still in a better position than any lockdown country.

>>12056863
I mean I do like that she finally banned foreign fucks from buying here but too little too late.
Everything else just says she's good with the media and won't take action. I'm betting she ramps up migration again when borders open despite promising not to.
Fuck this country man I studied for ages to get skilled and I can't afford even basic shit here.

Italy here. It's going to be a complete clown fiesta when schools reopen.

>>12056861
Based.

Lockdowns don't work for the same reason masks don't work - faggots like op don't wear them and spread the infection without realizing that masks protect others from you, similarly to how staying at home protects others from you.

"Isolate the sick" doesn't work when they were spreading the virus for 14+ days without knowing.

>>12056948
Fuck off. I stayed at my home for 162 days straight. I haven't seen my friends nor my family in 6 months. I wear the fucking mask.

We had 6 months of lockdown with mandatory face masks. 99% of people respected it strictly for the first two months. There was police putting offenders on house arrest. Now people need to work because not everyone can work from home like me, or live off the state.

It was all pointless, cases are skyrocketing now rather than in march. Your idea of a medical dictatorship putting countries on house arrest until a vaccine which may not work arrives is the product of psychopatic minds.

Fuck you I'm not taking a sketchy as hell rushed vaccine for a disease with a sub 1% kill rate whose median death age is fucking 85. And you're going to have to shoot me before you get that MRNA shit in me.

>>12056454
Nice. Lying about the covid destroying your """economy""" so you can default on your loans AGAIN.

>>12056973
They're skyrocketing because the fact that you stayed at home for 162 days is irrelevant, simply because there were many people who didn't.


You're a faggot in denial who doesn't understand what a lockdown is. Your doors weren't even welded shut and you think you were locked up?

China reinstated death penalty and killed faggots who didn't listen, that's the only country that had something close to an actual lockdown.

>>12057028
Yes, that's the point, your idea of a medical dictatorship is incompatible with a democracy or with a capitalist system.

Lockdowns don't work under democracy.
And I have my doubts they worked in Wuhan either. They simply stopped reporting their cases when they figured out it had a >1% death rate.

>>12057034
Whatever makes you sleep better at night.


If you shoot an infected faggot who walks around freely like nothing is wrong, they didn't die from a disease, why would it be reported?

>>12057038
In three posts you went from:
"It didn't work because you didn't wear the mask"
to
"It didn't work because you didn't weld people shut"
to
"It didn't work because you aren't shooting the infected"

Nice mental gymnastics to defend your unworkable lockdown.

Also
>trusting data from the chink government
>ever

>>12057043
>>12057038
This is Wuhan today btw
You expect me to believe these people are practicing social distancing? Or that the virus stopped circulating in a country with 1.4 billion people? They simply stopped giving a shit.

>>12056973
an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. had governments taken it seriously back in january it wouldn't have spread like it did. things would have shut down faster and reopened faster. the patchwork response ensured that the virus reached every point in every country on the globe. thank goodness the virus isn't something completely lethal. globalization means we need to have a better plan for the next novel virus

as you point out yourself, it's everywhere at this point rather than in march. you have to recognize that there is value spreading out the case load so that our hospital systems aren't forced to triage. you know, "flattening the curve"

i'm sorry your vagina is so painfully swollen

>>12057070
>had governments taken it seriously back in january it wouldn't have spread like it did.
You mean the Chinese government, which refused to acknowledge the virus existed, and then claimed, with the help of the WHO, that the virus did not transmit person to person.

>globalization means we need to have a better plan for the next novel virus
Sure but we are talking about this virus

>you have to recognize that there is value spreading out the case load so that our hospital systems aren't forced to triage. you know, "flattening the curve"
Sure, we had fewer deaths than, say, Europe or the US, because the hospital system had better time to prepare. But that could have been achieved with 20 days of lockdown. Everything else was reduntant.

There was no reason to destroy the world economy over a virus with a 0.6% death rate (at most using the CDC figure, it's probably less). You don't realize there will be a worldwide backlash and a reckoning after this is over. People won't take the WHO seriously when a real killer virus emerges.

>>12057043
All of these things should be applied together, they aren't mutually exclusive.

>>12057070
>had governments taken it seriously back in january

Had anyone taken any previous pandemic seriously (for example the flu that they now excuse as being worse than corona and say that corona doesn't matter because of it), viruses would never become worldwide issue in the first place.

January lol, unless you mean January hundreds of years ago, literally nothing would change.


You'd think "intelligent" species would learn from black death and the like.

>>12057012

top kek

>>12057053
This btfos the covid cultist

>>12057155
>>12057053
>>12057070

OH NO NO NO NO...PLEBBITORS ON SUICIDE WATCH

>>12057162
You'd be on suicide watch too if you were capable of realizing that in 1918 we didn't have hospitals and knowledge identical to current year and those articles are retarded takes, just like this post.

>>12057172

OH NO TRY AGAIN "TAKE" LEDDITOR

>>12057172
>those articles are retarded takes

Reminder that those articles were exactly in line with what the CDC and WHO were saying at the time, do both those organisations whose dicks I'm sure you fanatically suck, also have retarded takes?

Also reminder that you are a shill and still persist in pushing this insane narrative despite even the official numbers, inflated as they are give you a 0.2% mortality rate and an average age of victims at 85. Every single person I know has been laid off because of this joke of a virus and my countries economy is fucked, totally worth it. But yeah I guess we better keep the pigs out on the street for another year or so, crush any remaining small businesses and violate your bodily autonomy with a rushed vaccine under threat of violence by the state for a demonstrably flu tier illness.

Absolutely fucking kill yourself.

>>12057162
>>12057172
>>12057181

WEAR A FUCKING MASKARINOOOOOO

>>12057182
>>12057185

that redditor is getting BTFO

>>12057181
>haha redditor talking about death
When did I mention death?

This is about a virus spreading, not people dying, I couldn't care less if we went extinct tomorrow, but we won't, because faggots like you refuse to take their meds and let ADHD drive their decision making.

>>12056454
This is provably false

>>12057189

nice shifting of the goal post, faggot redditor.

>>12057189
>This is about a virus spreading, not people dying

Sorry I thought this virus was a super lethal gorillionocaust?

>>12057189

its amusing how these videos out of wuhan got scrubbed.

>>12057194
>unironically shows statistics proving that damage control never works and damage should have been avoided in the first place

>>12057201

it shows that mask dont work. >>12057188
>>12057185

>>12057201
>damage control

What damage? Reminder 300k people die every single day.

>>12057207

>>12057185
>>12057188
>>12057203
Okay, your obvious poorly researched schizo posts with misleading headlines and unrelated gobbeldygook convinces me.

Here is a simple response from the journal Lancet, the leading medical journal on earth that shows you retards just put together garbage to push a political agenda. It shows that yes, masks do work.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext#%20

Bonus points it proves social distancing too.

>>12057276
Reminder that you still can't coherently explain and defend why absolutely everything is getting fucked over for a disease with joke tier death rates and average ages of death and you won't engage on this point because you are a paid shill.

>>12057277
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

You're lying about that too. Excess deaths proves Covid-19 is far deadlier than you want to admit.

>>12057277
Because nobody with a brain will get into unironic discussion with a brainlet who thinks that humans dying is the reason why everyone wants to prevent a disease from spreading uncontrollably that would end up worse than stopping economy for a bit that literally doesn't even work to begin with.

>>12057280
Is this the same organisation that told us in no uncertain terms that masks were not effective?

>>12057281
You are remarkably similar to your picture.

>>12057281
>a brainlet who thinks that humans dying is the reason why everyone wants to prevent a disease from spreading

Yes, that is the only reason because everyone who doesn't die (99.8%) develops herd immunity. Did you skip high school and sit in front of CNN all day?

>>12057290
Tell me about that herd immunity we developed over past 13 years since 2007 Influenza pandemic.

In 2007, faggots like you unironically were saying same thing and implying that it will just blow over, now they quote that covid doesn't matter because
>the flu that will blow over
kills more people every single year.

You clearly don't care about deaths, so it is objectively ruled out from the list of reasons.

>>12057280
>excess deaths that could be due to literally anything and blaming any one thing is wild speculation at best
>ITS DUH GORONA HURRRRR

Reminder that the CDC told you not to wear masks and that this was just a flu bro.

>>12057299
Influenza rapidly mutates which is why there is no herd immunity. Either this mutates rapidly too at which point you need to give up because its already literally everywhere and there is fuck all you can do, or it doesn't at which point herd immunity is a viable option.

>>12057299
>You clearly don't care about deaths

This is such a bullshit emotional fallacy, if you cared about deaths so much you should be marching in the streets to put an end to the automobile.

>>12057306
You will die eventually so may aswell give up now, faggot.

>>12057315
I have had the coof and it was literally just that.

>>12057284
>>12057300
I know better than the experts! The experts were wrong once therefore I know they're always wrong! Look at my hastily put together mishmash of scary sounding quotes and headlines!

Look at these.
>wearing masks all day could give you a headache
Oh no!
>healthy people don't spread diseases
Who'd have thunk?!?!
>not washing and caring for a mask properly makes it so it doesn't work properly
Unbelievable!
I know better than the experts, look at all these quotes I found! The experts must be LYING.

You guys aren't just wrong, you're obviously wrong. "It could be anything?" Really? That's your argument. The CDC in the early days told us not to wear masks because they didn't have all the data that this was more virulent than they thought therefore they're always wrong about everything forever! Seriously? Are you 10?

Let me guess you're right wingers who want to 'own the libs!' so you've got to go out during a pandemic, you've got to have your parties and not wear a mask to show how the government can't like, control you man! So you put together a bunch of junk you never researched and don't understand and think it convinces anyone. Grow up and let the adults talk.

>>12057340
Reddit detected

>>12057340
Take the vaccine slave

>>12057345
You seem to love reddit a lot, so I checked out what it is and this is one of the first results I found
https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/ft6f0o/commentary_masksforall_for_covid19_not_based_on/

They seem to agree with you, non-redditor.

>>12056454
The only thing that seems to work is to be Nordic and living in a low population density area.

>>12057053
check out the tits on the girl in the blue top

>>12056948
Masks don't work as Scandinavia proves.

>>12056948
>Lockdowns don't work for the same reason masks don't work
So they don't work? That's already enough to show that lockdowners are malignant.

>>12057340
Do the libs kill old people to own the conses?

>>12057340
Experts are not wrong, experts are malicious.

>>12056454
>Be retarded government
>Make shitty flaccid lockdown
>don't take into account logistics
>HURR LOCKDOWN DOESN'T WORK

Your government doesn't work you dumbass. Not a single government in the world has taken this shit seriously. The day some fucker makes a fungus bioweapon and starts spreading the shit insidiously the world will end because yet again nobody will give a shit.

>>12057299
Wow, and we had total lockdown since 2007... on no, we did not.

>>12057801
If you are attempting something which can't work in the first place, then your idea is not just evil, but also useless.

>>12057801
>The day some fucker makes a fungus bioweapon and starts spreading the shit insidiously the world will end because yet again nobody will give a shit.
That's just another reason why covidiots are harmful: they destroyed economy and freedom for the seasonal cold. Now if something serious will appear, their crying wolf will destroy the chances to prevent it.

>>12057801
>Not a single government in the world has taken this shit seriously.
Canada and NZ seem to be doing OK.

>>12057816
Now mention a single country that isn't so far away and is so irrelevant that nobody ever goes there on top of already low population density that inherently prohibits fast spread of the virus.

>>12057053
Truly a genius move from China
>pretend that new cold will kill billions
>lock a few cities
>spread it out
>enjoy the world self-destructing

>>12056948
>"Isolate the sick" doesn't work when they were spreading the virus for 14+ days without knowing.
Retard

>>12057839
>The incubation period of COVID-19, which is the time between exposure to the virus and symptom onset, is on average 5-6 days, but can be as long as 14 days. (82, 91)

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/transmission-of-sars-cov-2-implications-for-infection-prevention-precautions

Go troll somewhere else, nigger.

>>12057843
You just disproved yourself nigger.
>14+ days
>5-6 days, can be up to 14 days
Stop acting like everyone was spreading it for 3 weeks without any symptoms

>>12056861
Let the covidophobes stay home, meanwhile I'll go out without masks.

>>12057821
I found 2 data points that disproved the initial claim. I should have formulated my response better. Move the goal post more.

>be my city
>largest regional hospital
>outbreak at hospital
>700 cases
>80% of staff
>staff say they weren't told how to stop the spread
>doctors and nurses are complaining they weren't told how to stop the spread of a disease killed by soap
At this point I have come to the conclusion that back when I thought half the population was incompetent I was drastically underestimating.

>>12057847
>stop acting like nobody just shrugged it off as a cold or mild flu and went to job because muh economy
ok retard

>>12057809
>Latin american governments are evil and useless
No shit sherlock.

>>12057814
If the "common cold" can't be stopped at one month of tanked economy, what makes you think a bigger threat would make anyone do any effort to stop it? You could have seen this as a drill, and everyone failed. Humanity is doomed.

>>12057865
>You could have seen this as a drill, and everyone failed.
See, I work in a large office building which once had a fire drill: everyone was forced out of the building and were forced to stay on the street for... year? No, for a few hours, because office building is huge and wasting time for a drill costs money. Now world economy is slightly larger than office building, right?

>>12057864
>>12057830

>>12057189
>This is about a virus spreading, not people dying
Wow.

>>12057892
Other people will die regardless, them dying won't undo the retarded shit that I have to deal with now, their death is literally irrelevant.

>>12057913
>I don't care how many die as long as I'm not inconvenienced.

>>12057877
Nigger. The drill for a judgement day virus costs 6 weeks tops. Six weeks. Will the world become fire and brine because everyone didn't work for a month? Fuck no.

Now why the fuck has this shit lasted for half a year, and will go on for 2 years? Because it's actually profitable to the fuckers who run the show.

Seriously, how much of a dumbass can you be. Go keep whining about removing lockdowns etc, let's see if the fuckers listen to you. Fucking midwit.

>>12057924
>Now why the fuck has this shit lasted for half a year, and will go on for 2 years? Because it's actually profitable to the fuckers who run the show.
Bingo!

>>12057913
If people dying are not relevant, then lockdowns don't have even pretense of usefulness.

>>12057938
So what. I already said government incompetence is what makes the world fail in my first post. It has nothing to do with the method of lockdown at all.

>>12057944
To governments, people dying are not relevant. Otherwise they would have made a real effort to stop it.

>>12057944
People dying is very relevant.

>>12057959
Except its not. Majority of people don't die from flu either, doesn't stop them from becoming worthless NEETS until they get better, which is the only relevant part of it.

>>12056454
depends on what you mean by works
the graph clearly shows it took a lot longer for the deaths to match the initial burst in the rest of the chosen countries
take a look at the cumulative deaths
it really sucks about the economy though
y'all were suffering already
can't imagine what you have coming up

>>12056541
Its called herd immunity retard

>>12057843
you aren't infectious right from the moment that you're exposed to the virus, that takes a couple of days, so most people are infectious while asymptomatic for a day or two. There are a handful of outliers for whom this is longer.

>>12056591
>If the virus mutates, how effective is the vaccine going to be?
It probably won't mutate enough to render the vaccine ineffective, coronaviruses don't mutate that quickly. If it does, then naturally obtained herd immunity will be lost as well. But it's now suspected that many people already have SARS-CoV-2 immunity from previous infections with one of the endemic coronaviruses, so it seems protection is pretty broad.

Sorry to hear Argentina is having such a rough time. It looks like they had almost no cases until mid-May when they started loosening restrictions. I think many governments expected this to be a two to three month event and that would be the end of it, which is why so many countries put such strict measures in place early on. Unfortunately what's feasible for two months isn't necessarily feasible for 12 months or more.

>>12056657
These heavily populated strongholds of conspiracy theorists are a figment of your imagination. Most people are reasonable enough to follow guidelines on distancing and cleanliness, they just don’t believe it’s a good idea to tank everyone’s livelihood for the sake of maybe getting a vaccine.

>>12056454
>Sweden was right.
Oh?
>Isolate the sick,
Did not happen.
>do contact tracing,
Closing the doors after the horses bolted, on an industrial scale.
>protect the elderly,
Homes for the elderly were like blood baths, and they didn't get access to hospitals.
>achieve herd immunity.
There is no indication that works, to the contrary we see reinfections after 4 - 5 months.
>Don't let them destroy your country and curtail your rights for nothing.
Approaching 1000 dead per million is hardly "nothing".

>>12056805
How is that?

>>12056867
>rest of Australia shitting themselves
Hahaha no, if anything NSW is becoming bolder because contact tracing has been working too well at preventing a Victoria situation with unexpectedly low transmission in spite of many clusters.

>>12056831
>I'm from New Zealand and I hate hearing about our country so much. Especially hearing these fucking reddit tier opinions of how great we supposedly are.
this
we now have child poverty back in NZ again because of our shitty fucking system but the PM is popular online so it's all good apparently

>>12062310
>Oh?
Yes, of course.
>Did not happen.
Good.
>Closing the doors after the horses bolted, on an industrial scale.
If failed, then good too.
>Homes for the elderly were like blood baths, and they didn't get access to hospitals.
Then arrest the doctors caring for them.

>>12062310
>There is no indication that works, to the contrary we see reinfections after 4 - 5 months.
You know, except deaths going to almost nothing in the last month.
>Approaching 1000 dead per million is hardly "nothing".
Yes, it is nothing compared to the "countermeasures"

>>12056454
>We destroyed the economy for nothing.
>Argentina
>economy
havin' a laff

>>12062310
>There is no indication that works, to the contrary we see reinfections after 4 - 5 months.
So why Sweden has 60 deaths in August and USA has 28K?

>>12062785
>So why Sweden has 60 deaths
That's substantially more than all of the other Scandinavian countries combined.

>>12062808
Ooh, so now you will try to put everyone under house arrest with tracing apps and in muzzles for a couple of deaths a day? Not that it wasn't obvious from the beginning
>other Scandinavian countries
Just another proof that masks are actively harmful?

A reminder: as Scandinavia shows, by wearing mask you are not only participate in shameful play, you are also killing people.

>>12062830
*participating

>>12062813
>Just another proof that masks are actively harmful?
How so? Deaths are dramatically lower in the entire Scandinavian region besides Sweden.

A protest against coronists today in Berlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53kOSu8ppE0

>>12062840
Surely that's because other Scandinavian countries totally love masks? Let's see:
Oh no, other Scandinavians despise masks too! Just look: countries with almost no masks have almost zero deaths. Meanwhile country with ~60% mask-wearers has tens of thousands of deaths! Congrats on self-destructing.

>>12056867
>Sweden on the other hand is basically out of the woods, even if the virus mutates there still in a better position than any lockdown country.
lol no
sweden is a trainwreck

>>12062840
But let's also note that covidists totally switched into "tear of a child" mode. Now if they will find one covid death somewhere, they will again torture everyone with lockdowns.
That's why no matter where you live you should participate in stuff like >>12062846 or at least ignore every covid demand as much as you can.

>>12062871
Every country except Sweden is a trainwreck.

>>12060836
>I think many governments expected this to be a two to three month event
It WAS a 2 month event. However, who the fuck expects some shit to be gone in 2 weeks of quarintine?

All the fucking shithead governments did the same. 2 weeks super strict quarintine, throw disobeyers to the dungeon instead of assuming they were protected by herd immunity of not having the rest of actual sick fags fucking around; After throwing people to the dungeon, release them once they have been contaminated and tell a bunch of the population that it's "safe now", cases grow more because of dungeon culturefags and back to quarintine. Rinse and repeat for 2 fucking years until everyone's infected.

How frustrating. Why the fuck did I become a doctor, why did I study at all, knowledge brings nothing but disappointment. Why didn't I become a jew with a business instead.

>>12062856
Meanwhile Hong Kong, Japan, Vietnam, and Taiwan have very few deaths despite being in very densely populated regions.

>>12062871
Sweden is a trainwreck, but that's been well documented before the virus even existed.

>>12062310
>herd immunity
What the fuck do you think herd immunity means? Do you think it's some magical anti-cough virus people pass around?

Herd immunity is a statistical phenomenon. If the sick people are quarintined with strict vigilance, how the fuck will they infect the fuckers running around? Herd immunity is a term for the potential vectors that didn't infect anyone because they weren't infected in the first place. Which people could be considered herd immunity? Healthy people who disobeyed the quarintine. Of course that sector may have failed, but once their diseases were resolute (dead or cured) they would stop being vectors themselves.

The issue here is, No one held a strict quarintine with proper containment vigilance and prevention. Everyone was worried about MUH NEXT MONTH OF MONIES WILL BE GONE REEEEE, and the consequence is that the whole fucking year of monies is gone now.

The only goal of medicine is cutting loses. Either cutting loses for a deadly disease or cutting loses for money making systems that involve people's health. Medicine is worthless because nobody gives a shit about cutting loses.

>>12062885
a)Let us first remember that literally no country (even Belgium or New York if taken as a separate country) situation justified the current dystopia. You try to arrive at the current argument only by moving goalposts once... twice... vast number of times.
b)But even in the last few posts you manage to switch goalposts several times
>Masks are the salvation and should be forced!
>But Sweden has no masks and is doing way better than mask-wearing USA
GOALPOST SWITCH
>But if we'll cherrypick Sweden neighbours, they will do even better!
>But they don't wear masks too.
GOALPOST SWITCH
>But now we'll forget even about cherrypicking the neighbours and will try to cherrypick countries around the whole world.
How many times shall we do that? Ten times? Twenty?

>>12062904
>Everyone was worried about MUH NEXT MONTH OF MONIES WILL BE GONE REEEEE, and the consequence is that the whole fucking year of monies is gone now.
That's why starting quarantines even for a week was an insane decision.

>>12062904
>No one held a strict quarintine with proper containment vigilance and prevention.
"Proper containment" would be shooting offenders and welding people shut in their homes under a communist dictatorship? Hard pass.

>>12062917
>Masks are the salvation and should be forced!
Can you quote where I said that, please?

>>12058064
That's what people forget with the "flatten the curve" crap. That curve does not lower the total number who will get infected or total deaths, it means that you don't get rapid infections at the beginning. The only way you lower the death total is with anti-virals and giving populations vaccines, and we haven't developed a vaccine and the anti-virals are questionable.

>>12062883
>Why didn't I become a jew with a business instead.
Be glad, because the lockdown might have put you out of business. Every society needs a doctor, but there's mass unemployment now.

>>12062920
Wrong. Starting quarintines were a good concept with terrible implementation. The Ideal quarintine was supposed to be "Shut down everything", locate towns with sick people and absolute lockdown everything in it, dispatch designated logistics personel to the town, use the army to deliver food to them for one month, fine disobeyers, don't fucking throw them in prison to infect others. If it didn't work for 2 months, lift everything and let the disease run its course". And that's it. Plenty of countries had a good chance to get absolutely no local infections, but everyone is retarded. Some fuckers like El Salvador's president even took this as a chance to rob a shit ton of money, he didn't buy protective equipment for medics, instead he painted hospitals for 1.5 million dollars and stole ventilators for a propaganda remodeled building turned hospital, the consequence is over 100 medics died and nobody mentions it.

>>12062926
Proper containment means "Don't throw this fucker to the place where you know he'll absolutely get infected and release him one week later when his virus is active and his symptoms are imperceptible"

>>12062930
>Every society needs a doctor
>for the same salary as a fucking call center drone
My brother is a doctor, guess what he's doing.

>>12062927
>>other Scandinavian countries
>Just another proof that masks are actively harmful?
>>12062840
>How so? Deaths are dramatically lower in the entire Scandinavian region besides Sweden.
How was your comment related to the previous one?

But if you actually agree that masks are hardly useful, and shouldn't be forced, then let's agree to agree.

>>12062935
Nobody is doing that?

>>12062944
It happened where i live. Also, Euros do things like "We see the rate of infection has gone down from 100 new cases to 50 new cases, i think it's safe to open up."

How the fuck is it safe to open up if the disease is still around? How the fuck do you expect to not be a rebound in cases?

There hasn't been a single attempt to erradicate this disease.

>>12057053
What's the fun in this? You can't even svim, it's you thousands in a giant pool

>>12056454
Under no circumstances should a modern society lockdown because the economic consequences are catastrophic. People losing their jobs will lead to greater damage than any pandemic ever will.

>>12062947
>We see the rate of infection has gone down from 100 new cases to 50 new cases, i think it's safe to open up.
Yes, that's nonsense even if you think that corona is bad. Unless everyone already has immunity, reopening will just lead to the new exponent.

>>12062951
>modern society locked down
>There has been absolutely no fucking consequence
Wow, such catastrophe, such economic.

>>12062954
Yes, there was an economic catastrophe, but it was the least of the problems compare to other dystopian stuff.

>>12062947
You can't stop people from disobeying the lockdown without resorting to dictatorial measures. Hence virus still circulates. And you can't lockdown forever.

Hence, lockdowns don't work to stop the virus.

>>12062943
My original post was here: >>12062808

The point being, Sweden's measures have been less effective than every other Scandinavian country, it wasn't in reference to anything specific at that point. You then brought up masks. Okay, I'll accept other Scandinavian countries aren't significantly using masks, which means the difference in those regions is lockdowns, yes?

And then you have examples like Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan, which have very high mask usage and never closed down, but they implemented other measures as well. Trying to simplify the situation to only masks, or only lockdowns, is a mistake. The USA half-assed both and is in bad shape because of it. Sweden did neither and looks awful compared to their neighbors who only chose to quarantine.

>>12062954
>>12062959
probably because we're all at least middle class here. Most people aren't doing so well right now..

>>12062954
Economic consequences will be long-term. There is probably going to be a worldwide debt crisis a few years from now.

>>12062960
Did you fucking read what I wrote nigger?

>>12062904

If people disobey, let them fucking die. 95% of the population WILL obey because they don't want to fucking die. If more people than that are disobeying, you have a problem in communicating the gravity of the issue and giving them solutions to their own problems.

The disease doesn't last for fucking ever either, and people don't take turns to disobey. Fomites (shit infected people touch and use) are infective up to 3 days and they are easily cleaned. The natural evolution of the disease is solved in 6 weeks from infection. You don't need to lockdown forever, you need to lockdown for 2 months without going full retard. That's it. The fucking shit is erradicated and you don't trouble yourself with more economic bullshit. That was all that had to be done.

>>12062964
>and looks awful
"Looks awful" implies a serious harm being done. Even USA with thousand deaths every day does not "look awful". A country with a couple of deaths a day does not look awful in any way and calling her such is a pure nonsense. That's why your original post is a literal "tear of a child" demagogy.
> Okay, I'll accept other Scandinavian countries aren't significantly using masks, which means the difference in those regions is lockdowns, yes?
That, at least, means that wearing masks is useless or even harmful. Not that those countries are quarantining for years.
> but they implemented other measures as well.
Some of which are pretty dystopic too, like South Korea mass surveillance.

>>12062989
>Did you fucking read what I wrote nigger?
Yes and it makes no sense.
Lockdowns don't work.
They haven't worked in a single country.
There are new outbreaks in Europe now.
China didn't erradicate it either.
They simply stopped reporting their numbers.

Your argument of "lockdowns weren't done right" is starting to sound like the communists claiming Venezuela "is not real socialism".

>>12062994
thousands deaths every day does not look awful until it's your relative who fucking died you fuckwad.

>>12062989
>You don't need to lockdown forever, you need to lockdown for 2 months without going full retard. That's it. The fucking shit is erradicated and you don't trouble yourself with more economic bullshit.
This is true for a single country, but then you have to be extremely aggressive in monitoring and quarantining international travelers. One infected person slipping under the radar could mean having to repeat the entire lockdown again.

>>12062989
>If people disobey, let them fucking die.
You mean, "kill them"? Because otherwise, unless you are sick 80 years old, your chances to die are minuscule.
>That was all that had to be done.
No, it wasn't, and the fact that most governments totally failed at their quarantining is a silver lining on the whole debacle.

>>12062997
>MUH COMMUNISSSTTTSSSSS
Alright you got me. I trust you did understand what I said because I made myself as clear as possible and you brought no counter-argument.

That's my assessment of the situation. It's up to you to believe whatever you want.

>>12062998
Why weren't you you complaining in 2019 or before? Almost 3 millions of Americans die each year. Are they not your relatives, fuckwad?

>>12063003
Not just people, New Zealand got reinfected because of meat imports. It doesn't work. You can't stop something as contagious as the flu.

>>12063007
Let me put it in simpler terms because you seem unable to grasp the analogy.

"If your idea doesn't work in the real world then it doesn't work".

>>12063003
> but then you have to be extremely aggressive in monitoring and quarantining international travelers
Which is a lot easier than managing the entire quarantine deal which needs a huge logistics effort, which although plausible nobody wanted to bother with it.

Let airlines fuck themselves over, people over estimate the value of air travel, I have no recollection of a catastrophe happening because someone couldn't make it somewhere

>>12062994
>That, at least, means that wearing masks is useless or even harmful.
How are you figuring that? Mask usage is essentially the same throughout the Nordic region, so you can't make that judgment from those countries alone (but you can judge that lock downs are more effective than no lock downs). Other countries with high mask usage have done quite well without locking down, which means that lock downs (as judged by Scandinavia) are not the only effective measure.

>>12063013
You are absolutely right. If people can't implement a solid theory there is no way this could be done because people are simply too retarded to do it, but you can't help the way people are. However, you can't know something like this until you try it.

>>12062997
I mean it's obvious that all the anti-corona measures are not related to saving lives in any way, but what if it's actually not true?
What if top bureaucrats went insane and actually decided to save everyone from dying and all the lockdown stuff was done with good intentions? Then it will be truly poetic when corona deaths will happen anyway after the few years, but we will also get a whole bunch of additional deaths and suffering. I wonder what such a hypothetical kind bureaucrat will think.

>>12062947
Well, good luck with that, because plenty of people love to break quarantine. I'll remember that case in New Zealand where a foreigner broke quarantine to buy some alcohol at a shop, which furthered the spread. And those temperature guns can be unreliable, so your best bet is to wait for a vaccine to stop infections or an anti-viral to reduce mortality rates.

Because you're in the fucking temperate southern hemisphere
Wait until the temperate northern hemisphere enters winter, where billions of people live. Shit is going to hit the fan, especially with lockdown fatigue.

>>12063026
I fear this as well. It's fucking weird for a respiratory virus to continue spreading in the middle of summer. It's proving to be quite resilient, and throwing cold and flu season in on top of it could be a disaster.

>>12062885
By that same logic hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment

>>12063025
The temperature guns are a useless measure. Who comes up with that shit? Seriously man, if someone has a fever, what will they do about it? They won't call the police, they won't call an ambulance, they will say "no sir, we don't like you" after the fucker coughed them all up.

Same with the arrows in supermarkets or making long lines even keeping distance from each other, if the virus stays infective in air for a while, bigger airflow will fuck shit up.

Also, possibilities like infections from fomites like stuff from supermarkets touched by people were not taken into account. I wash all my groceries when i come home, but nobody told me this.

All in all, the mismanagement of this pandemic came from the bias evidence based medicine has caused for decades now, where a bullshit study shows correlation but doesn't offer the proportion that factor contributes to the disease, complimented by politicians taking this shit as a personal business opportunity.

>>12063019
Let's first remember that masks are harmful (inconvenience, health hazard and above all them being forced) even if we'll ignore corona.
Then let's remember the initial discussion. We took USA (28K deaths in August) as a baseline. Then we saw that non-mask Sweden has almost zero deaths compared to that. That already hurts the pro-mask sentiment, but by some reason you decided to bring the rest of Scandinavia. Well, guess what, they have almost zero deaths too, and they don't wear masks too! So they confirm that masks are useless.

>>12063031
The scary thing is that there are barely any dense population centres in the temperate southern hemisphere. Fuck knows what a full winter will do to the virus's spread.

>>12063035
>bigger airflow
Population flow I meant.

>>12063031
By then the "crying wolf" will take place, and even if new diseases will be actually deadly, lockdowns will be ignored.

>>12063036
>Let's first remember that masks are harmful
Elaborate. I am genuinely concerned because as a doctor I have been wearing masks all day at the hospital before this pandemic happened. To this day I have seen no consequence, and I haven't read any study associating pneumoconiosis to wearing masks in health workers. I want to know of your findings so I can stop wearing masks at the hospital for every other disease.

>>12062856
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Argie here. Non of this is true. It's all copy paste local libertarian propaganda. Most people literally call them "virgins" because their ranks are mostly confused lonely teenagers. They get less votes than the communist party.

>>12063046
Why is everybody assuming that a new deadly disease is right around the corner?

>>12063047
>I have been wearing masks all day at the hospital
All day, or just when you're operating? Are you in an infectious disease ward or something? In my experience at hospitals doctors are rarely walking around in masks

>>12063036
>health hazard
Where's your actual proof? Are they magically not harmful in Hong Kong, Taiwan, S. Korea, and Japan?

>We took USA (28K deaths in August) as a baseline.
And why did you pick the USA as a baseline?

>has almost zero deaths compared to that. That already hurts the pro-mask sentiment, but by some reason you decided to bring the rest of Scandinavia. Well, guess what, they have almost zero deaths too, and they don't wear masks too!
And we end up right back at the countries I already listed. If you're going to call masks harmful or state that they don't work, then you need to explain how countries without lock downs and dense populations managed to not only curb deaths, but total cases as well.

>>12063046
This was a deadly enough disease. You may not have noticed but in some sectors like hospitals, a whole generation of workers were wiped out. Despite being such a dangerous disease nobody cared about doing what had to be done. This was already a vulnerability and now we know nothing can be done about it. A preventable biological threat will be the one that wipes out humanity, nothing can be done about it.

>>12063048
Duterte shall rule Europe.

>>12063055
I'm wearing a mask all day as well, required in my office. Same for everyone else. Compliance is high. Haven't seen any respiratory issues as a result of it.

>>12063064
Right but before covid would you just wear a mask all the time?

>>12063048
So a country close to the Equator where it's always hot and humid has a lower case rate than a country where its colder and drier? Also forgetting that Duterte is a fucking dictator in the Philippines. Get fucked, faggot.

>>12063060
>in some sectors like hospitals, a whole generation of workers were wiped out
wat? By wiped out do you mean "furloughed"?

>>12063067
No, never saw a mask prior to Covid.

>>12063055
All day, I've been assigned to infectology ward, also when I was assigned to OR I also had to wear them all day because you can't go out of the surgery wing until you finish your shift, also every 4 days i've had to manually ventilate patients the whole night. I think i've gotten quite the exposure to these deadly masks you talk about.

So please, elaborate. I'm concerned I only have 3 years to live because it was mere 2 years ago that I wore masks all day. Share the data please, my life depends on it (according to you)

>>12063058
>in Hong Kong, Taiwan, S. Korea, and Japan?
It's quite funny that Hong Kongers were totally protesting about Chinese rule, but then coronavirus happened and they protest no more. Truly a miraculous disease.

>>12063070
Where I live doctors were an exception to the paid leave. They continued working, some quit from the public health system but continued practicing in private. I got notices of a dead colleagues every day for 2 months.

>>12056861
okay reddit

>>12063073
Oh I wouldn't say that your life depends on it. Pro-mask people think "well I wear a mask and I feel fine" is such a good argument, it's really not. I drink too much Red Bull and feel just fine, yet still accept that it might be causing health problems. Likewise, I used to smoke, and I never felt any health effects. Does that mean that smoking is actually healthy? Probably not

Also it sounds like you're saying masks were protecting you from being infected. All of the public health experts here in the US are saying that masks don't protect you, but they protect people from you. Who's lyin here?

>>12057566
i too enjoy chinese pussy

>>12063084
WHERE IS THE FUCKING DATA YOU FUCKWAD, I TOLD YOU MY FUCKING LIFE DEPENDS ON IT, NOW I DON'T KNOW IF MY LUNGS ARE FUCKED AND I WILL LIVE 10 YEARS LESS BECAUSE YOU DON'T SHARE THE FUCKING DATA AND I WILL KEEP WEARING MASKS AT WORK. THE WHOLE MEDICAL FIELD WEARS MASKS ALL DAY AND THEY WILL ALL FUCKING DIE BECAUSE YOU DON'T SHARE THE DATA.

>>12063060
> a whole generation of workers were wiped out.
Even if it had a pinch of truth in it, then why should I be pleased about having such useless doctors who are unable to save patients or even themselves?

>>12063078
Approximately 1000 out of 16 million health care workers in the US have died from coronavirus, it's impressive that you personally knew 6% of them

>>12063089
Calm down buddy. Did you read my post at all? I specifically said your life is probably not in danger. Although I don't actually have data that masks aren't deadly, so heck maybe they are.

Where's the data that masks help prevent infection?

>>12063058
>Are they magically not harmful in Hong Kong, Taiwan, S. Korea, and Japan?
Why do you think that Asians forcing something will magically make it great?
While we are at it: we know that Japan had no insane lockdowns and is doing great. Does it have forced masks? Like can you be arrested or fined if you are in a train without it?

>>12063093
I don't live in the US dumbass.

>>12063090
Believe what you want, it doesn't change the truth. I also blame them for insisting on working and not protesting to get protective gear or whatever, but you can't ignore this disease lethality.

>>12063058
>And why did you pick the USA as a baseline?
Because
a)Most of /sci/ posters are from USA
b)USA is a huge country and is a good case to study
c)USA has nothing to justify lockdowns, but it still has *some* deaths, unlike almost nothing in most other countries.

>>12056541
>NE
>lowest death rates
What? NY, NJ, MA, and CT have the highest per capita death rates because your retard governors sent covid grandmas out of the hospital and into nursing homes

>>12063101
>but you can't ignore this disease lethality.
Yes, I can ignore the disease with median death age around 80 (and which already almost stopped in sane countries like Sweden).

>>12063089
>I WILL KEEP WEARING MASKS AT WORK.
Meanwhile I'll ignore them. Feels comfy.

>>12063048
Meanwhile Congo has ~4K cases and less than 100 deaths. Africans are truly the greatest people.

>>12063101
Where do you live that there were so many health care worker deaths?

>>12063104
That sounds like a good idea to cull excessive nursing home population and to save funding.

>>12062871
Who is this cutie?

>>12063096
Alright. Then you have nothing to back up your claim. You may say I don't have anything to back up my claim either, because I won't bother reading shit for you.

I've always said "What can go wrong will go wrong" and I also believe at least 1 person will get cancer from wearing masks one day, and nobody will find out that really was the reason. Then, what model do you propose for which "masks are harmfull"? I say they are protective because they restrict the airflow a bit and thus lower the infective dose, protecting me from infectious disease to a point. Since I don't know who is infected right now, i think it's a good practice to wear them, even all day.

What is your model for a disease caused by wearing masks all day? In what proportion does it damage?

>>12063133
>they restrict the airflow a bit
I CAN'T BREATHE!

>>12063119
El Salvador. Of course this maduro-tier shithole didn't keep track of that because it's bad propaganda, but it could be investigated with relative ease. Not like you care either.

>>12063126
Yeah but it doesnt make sense combined with locking everything down to save grandma

You coulda just left everything open and had the same effect for cheaper

>>12063137
Then what are you doing outside? If you have such little lung capacity you must be deep fucked with emphysema, so you must have an oxygen tank next to you and a box of steroid powder, use that shit.

Looks like it prevented a lot of deaths

>>12063133
USA has 59% mask wearers and has way more deaths than Scandinavia with almost no masks. So harm from the masks is confirmed, but we can discuss the specific mechanisms. Lack of air sounds to be obvious one. Getting a certain disease and then constantly increasing your viral load instead of getting it out is another. Providing a wet place for bacteria to reproduce just before your face is not a good thing too. Finally neurological consequences from your face being constantly covered is important too. Guess that's enough, but one can always add more points.

>>12063148
I'm outside breathing of course. The better question is: what corona-fearers are doing outside. Why won't they practice what they preach.

>>12063151
*caused

>>12063145
It's double win:
1)Send sick patients to nursing homes and cull boomers
2)Use it as a reason to lockdown zoomers and introduce all the tracking stuff.

>>12063141
Looks like you guys had 708 deaths, although I suppose you're saying that number's inaccurate. Is it still mostly 80+ year olds dying for you guys, or is it younger people?

>>12063155
>USA has 59% mask wearers and has way more deaths than Scandinavia with almost no masks.

Let factor x^2 be mask wearing and its coefficient its proportion.
>USA has a disease modeled after 5x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + 3x^2 + x+ 1
>Sweden's disease can be modeled after 2x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + 2x^2 + x+ 1

>omg f(x) for US is higher and x^2 is higher too, it must be the masks fault!

>>12063133
You're glossing over the question that I would really like to hear addressed from a real health care professional. Are the public health experts lying when they say wearing a mask will not protect me from being infected?
Here's a model: if lowering the infective dose decreases the chance of serious illness, then wearing a mask will increase it, since you will be continually rebreathing in the viruses that your body would otherwise expel, resulting in a higher viral load and according to you a worse illness. Is my logic flawed?
There that's two questions for you which I suspect you will avoid and just fire back more questions at me in response

>>12063175
are those supposed to be powers of x or are they superscript-indexed variables?

>>12063151
Look at that exponential growth

>>12063175
Wow, anon, you have such a beautiful model! Truly an aesthetically pleasing polynomial!
By the way, if masks are such a low-power member, then all the mask propaganda goes to trash. Congrats on disproving yourself.

>>12063155
>Lack of air sounds to be obvious one.
Tell me the pathogenesis of "lack of air" in the average person as a cause of death.

>Getting a certain disease and then constantly increasing your viral load instead of getting it out is another
Show me a study that says infected persons don't produce a single antibody against SARS2,

> Providing a wet place for bacteria to reproduce just before your face is not a good thing too
Name the pathological bacteria that only grows from mask humidity and which competes with comensal skin bacteria for substrate

> Finally neurological consequences from your face being constantly covered is important too.
Show me a case study for mask associated seizure.

>>12063097
None of that answers my question. Why are masks not harmful in those countries? You said they're a health hazard, so I want your evidence. Surely those countries should be getting crushed with respiratory infections from all those masks?

>>12063188
I'll put it in simple terms for you

>Americans are retarded
>Disease goes up

>>12063191
Of course. Creating lockdowns was retarded, putting masks on was retarded and forcing sick patients into nursing homes was retarded too.

>>12063155
>USA has 59% mask wearers and has way more deaths than Scandinavia with almost no masks.
Sweden still has a higher per capita death rate. Are you saying the USA should have lockdowns like the rest of Scandinavia?

>>12063189
>Tell me the pathogenesis of "lack of air" in the average person as a cause of death.
Why are you fixated on death? Many things cause health problems that don't result in death. If you really want to research death caused by lack of air the scientific term is hypoxia

>>12063194
No. I mean being american is a risk factor itself. If you are american, there's a higher chance you're an absolute retard, and thus you'll get infected more easily.

>>12063189
>Fast food is bad for you
>Really? Show me an instance where a person died from eating a Big Mac. Go ahead, I'll wait.

>>12063199
List morbidities associated to "lack of air" and their healthcare cost then.

>hypoxia
Bring me a case study of mask associated hypoxia in healthy persons without other underlying condition

>>12063190
>Why are masks not harmful in those countries?
Why are you thinking that masks are not harmful in these countries, and why do you think that something being non-harmful in them will not be harmful in different countries?
>You said they're a health hazard, so I want your evidence.
Mask-wearing USA having hundreds of times more deaths compared to non-mask-wearing Sweden is an example.
>Surely those countries should be getting crushed with respiratory infections from all those masks?
No, not necessarily? So your cherrypicking fails again (at least now you don't even pretend to pick similar countries). But of course respiratory disease are the minor trouble compared to all the other covidist shit.

>>12063206

>Fast food is bad for you
Is it now? Or is it your behavior regarding fast food that is bad?

>>12063212
DUDE

>>12063207
Are you asking me to prove that a lack of air is unhealthy?

>>12063197
>Sweden still has a higher per capita death rate.
No, 60 deaths is less than 28K even per capita. Not that it's relevant anyway.
>Are you saying the USA should have lockdowns like the rest of Scandinavia?
Of course not, since malignancy of lockdowns vastly overwhelms any deaths from coronavirus. So USA and other countries who had lockdowns did way worse than no lockdown countries no matter what corona stats are. Same with masks.

>>12063206
>>12063216
>overbinges on fast food
>tries to ban it for everyone
Are you a self-hating American?

>>12063219
Yes. I'm waiting. All of us will benefit from knowing the airflow umbral above which we can be healthy.

>>12063207
If coronists will stay home forever, that will bring them no health hazard.

>>12063230
There's actually a fun experiment you can perform at home to demonstrate that a lack of air is unhealthy, all you need is a garbage bag and some duct tape

>>12063210
>Why are you thinking that masks are not harmful in these countries
Lack of deaths, lack of reports of respiratory infections, plus my own experience wearing a mask.

>and why do you think that something being non-harmful in them will not be harmful in different countries?
Why would they be?

>Mask-wearing USA having hundreds of times more deaths compared to non-mask-wearing Sweden is an example.
Non mask-wearing Swedes have hundreds more deaths compared to mask-wearing Asians.

>cherrypicking
Heh, yes, *I'm* cherrypicking, and you're trying to feed me bullshit that masks for some reason function differently in Asia (and Germany) than the rest of the world.

>>12063231
Indeed but that is not the risk factor being discussed. I'm still waiting on that mask-induced hypoxia study.

>>12063202
Not true, unless you are in a Democrat-operated nursing home.

>>12063229
Why did you just admit to being a pedophile? That's gross and totally irrelevant

>>12063224
>No, 60 deaths is less than 28K even per capita. Not that it's relevant anyway.
Got it, I forgot that SARS-CoV-2 only existed in August.

>>12063234
The umbral, smoothbrain, tell me what the fucking umbral for that is.

>>12063237

>>12063235
>Lack of deaths, lack of reports of respiratory infections, plus my own experience wearing a mask.
That's because Japan had no lockdown. Lockdown kills. Your BDSM experience does not matter.
>Why would they be?
Why wouldn't they? Bring me the source proving that they would not.
>Non mask-wearing Swedes have hundreds more deaths compared to mask-wearing Asians.
Mask-wearing Americans have hundreds of thousands more deaths than Swedes. Completely beats your hundreds (but isn't relevant too).
>Heh, yes, *I'm* cherrypicking, and you're trying to feed me bullshit that masks for some reason function differently in Asia (and Germany) than the rest of the world.
Of course you are. First you tried cherrypicking other Scandinavians, when that failed tried to cherrypick all around the world.

>>12063246

>>12063244
3 fiddy

>>12063243
What, it already ended, due to herd immunity or something else? Then we can stop fighting it, no matter if it was bad or not-that-bad before.

>>12063255
See?

>>12063256
Luckily masks bring down your airflow to 4 fiddy, thus they don't cause hypoxia.

>>12063237
Here's one
http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf
literally the first result on google for "surgical mask hypoxia". Did you even try looking?

>>12063242
>democrats force lockdowns
>you now claim that democrats are pedophiles
Works perfectly.

>>12063266
That's good, but if someone tries to claim that closing your airway with cloth does not impact air intake, you will not prove anything to him.

>>12063250
>That's because Japan had no lockdown. Lockdown kills.
Except in Scandinavia, right? Because in Scandinavia, not locking down kills.

>Why wouldn't they? Bring me the source proving that they would not.
You're the one claiming masks are dangerous. Surely you didn't just pull that out of your ass with no proof?

>Mask-wearing Americans have hundreds of thousands more deaths than Swedes.
Per capita death rates are still higher in Sweden than in USA. Sweden's per capita death rate is over 10x higher than the countries I listed.

>cherrypicking blah blah blah
You're fucking arguing Germans and Asians must have a different biology or some shit to justify to not being harmed by masks, and I'm the one who's cherrypicking. This is hilarious.

>>12063265
4 fiddy still needs to things like poor circulation and even blindness

>>12063266
>post operational values decreased to 96.3±0.3 (p=0.0006).

>96

> Este cambio temprano de SpO2 puede deberse a la mascarilla o al estrés de la intervención

>>12063281
True or false: masks reduce oxygen saturation

>>12063266
Exercise does that too. Where is the evidence it's causing damage? Since doctors and nurses have been wearing masks for a hundred years, don't you think you should be able to find better evidence for a negative long-term impact?

>>12063276
>Except in Scandinavia, right? Because in Scandinavia, not locking down kills.
Scandinavia compared to USA shows that masks kill.
>You're the one claiming masks are dangerous. Surely you didn't just pull that out of your ass with no proof?
Oh no, I was not the one trying to force no masks on others. So every burden of proof is on you.
>Per capita death rates are still higher in Sweden than in USA. Sweden's per capita death rate is over 10x higher than the countries I listed.
No, 60 deaths per month is less than 28K deaths per month. Of course even the latest number does not justify any dystopian measures.
>You're fucking arguing Germans and Asians must have a different biology or some shit to justify to not being harmed by masks, and I'm the one who's cherrypicking. This is hilarious.
It was you who first tried to point at other Scandinavians. Then that cherrypicking failed and you tried to switch to other countries.

>>12063286
>96

>>12056454
>Lockdowns DON'T WORK
>Argie here.
Maybe it's because it's Argentina. I don't know much about your country besides 01/01 and how the country collapsed seemingly overnight, but it seems that the scars are still there.

>Sweden was right. Isolate the sick, do contact tracing, protect the elderly, achieve herd immunity. Don't let them destroy your country and curtail your rights for nothing.
Requires higher societal compliance, which not every country has. Having preprepared hazard contingencies also help. The sooner people cooperate, the faster they recover. If not, the beatings continue until morale improves.

>>12063281
>>12063293
You are completely owned, right? Imagine begging for source, then getting it and throwing a tantrum.

>>12063288
>Still waiting on just one source for your claim
>Here you go
>OKAY GIVE ME ANOTHER
How about you give some evidence for the claim that there are zero negative health effects

>>12063297
>Requires higher societal compliance, which not every country has. Having preprepared hazard contingencies also help. The sooner people cooperate, the faster they recover. If not, the beatings continue until morale improves.
That's why ignoring masks and lockdowns is the only way out. Either you crush covidists, or they will crush you, but at least you will provide some resistance.

>>12063291
>Scandinavia compared to USA shows that masks kill.
Taiwan compared to Scandinavia proves that not wearing masks kills. We can do this all day.

>Oh no, I was not the one trying to force no masks on others. So every burden of proof is on you.
Okay. I point to Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, and Germany, where masks are clearly not harmful. Case closed.

>>12063304
Nigger, we asked you for hypoxia and you failed to deliver results. If anything, you proved masks aren't harmful in the proportion you make them be. You're a fucking retard.

>>12056454
Swede here. We had no real lockdown. We let people pile up like drunken seals at the beaches. Stockholm alone has more deads than Norway, Denmark and Finland put togheter. Our economy is still not "saved".

>>12063304
You didn't give a source that masks are harmful. You gave a source that showed masks caused a slight change in oxygen saturation. There's no evidence that's actually harmful.

>How about you give some evidence for the claim that there are zero negative health effects
American surgeons exceed the average life expectancy in the USA. Boy, those masks sure must be dangerous that surgeons live longer!

>>12063309
>Taiwan compared to Scandinavia proves that not wearing masks kills. We can do this all day.
Of course not. In fact it does not "kill" anywhere, since it's just a seasonal cold with small impact on total deaths.
But wait, you are currently trying to prove that even one death a month is a reason for brutal lockdown. When that will fail, you will argue that someone coughing somewhere is a reason for house arrest for everyone. Your original idea has nothing to do with common benefit, you just like people being jailed.
>Japan
Did not have insane lockdowns, so lockdowners are malignant.
>Germany
>>12062846

>>12063316
>If anything, you proved masks aren't harmful in the proportion you make them be.
What proportion did I make them to be?

>>12063316
>>12063300

>>12063324
>American surgeons exceed the average life expectancy in the USA.
B-but covid killed them all!

>>12063331
Greater than the harm of a person getting infected.

>>12063324
Stop lying with statistics. Surgeons exceed the life expectancy of the general population but they are below the life expectancy of adult with a college education

>>12063325
>In fact it does not "kill" anywhere
Why did Sweden record its highest death toll in 150 years if SARS-CoV-2 doesn't kill?

>>12063026
This.
It's Southern Hemisphere winter.
Corona hasn't circulated in Northern Hemisphere winter yet. January is gonna be a bloodbath.

>>12063309
>Japan
Higher societal preparedness. Earthquakes and tsunami hazard being most notable. People find masks as normal, one to stem the spread of illness and the immense amount of tree pollen the island produces due to their lumber industry collapsing.
>Taiwan
Easily mobilizes production to adapt to crisis. Masks are unusual but not enough to cause compliance issue.
>S. Korea
Higher societal preparedness. Already had biohazard emergency plans due to SARS crisis. They do not have problems with tracking with technology, it's more or less accepted there due to higher technological integration. People find masks as normal, primarily to stem the spread of illness and to protect against the toxic yellow dust that blows over from China.
>Germany
Very by-the-book to an autistic degree as a culture, so they're more compliant to following rules and regulations. The migrants are a completely different story and represent the majority of infected.

>>12063337
Which is way lower than masks (let alone lockdowns).

>>12063337
In which post did I claim that? And how does that study refute it?

>>12063340
Sweden has ~90K deaths every year. Does that count as "killing"? What about 3 millions deaths in America?

>>12063337
>harm of a person getting infected.
Which is irrelevant when a small fraction of people are ever infected (or, if anyone is infected, you already have tiny death rates).

>>12063341
I dearly hope that lockdowners will not get any immunity and then will get total corona despite their lockdowns.

>>12063350
You always redirect the question. Sweden had a death toll that's so exceptional it hasn't happened in 150 years, and it just so happens to coincide with a pandemic that hit them much harder than their neighbors. What is your explanation for those extra deaths?

>>12056454
Lock downs work ONLY if they're done simultaneously AND after you leave lockdown you have a test and trace program set up.

It's real fucking simple.
>test and trace get overwhelmed by high infection rates
>virus runs rampant undetected and unchecked
>unable to quarantine the sick cause nobody knows who's sick cause test and trace is non-functional
>as emergency a measure quarantine everyone including those not sick
>AKA a lock down
>infection rates go down after 2 weeks
>test and trace is now enough to control the virus
>slowly reopen so as not to surge and overwhelm test n trace

>>12063342
Those are all good points, they have absolutely nothing to do with why those people wear masks without harm, when it's being claimed that masks are harmful and caused the deaths in the USA.

>>12063363
>Sweden had a death toll that's so exceptional it hasn't happened in 150 years... What is your explanation for those extra deaths?
assuming you mean total death count, population increase will play a big factor

>>12063370
>they have absolutely nothing to do with why those people wear masks without harm
How do you know that?

>>12063364
In what country has this strategy worked at erradicating the virus?

>>12063363
Lets return to the very beginning:
1)Measures against covid are the grotesque dystopia
2)Such measures are (somewhat) justified only if we are dealing with new black death and if it is actually prevented by such measures.
3)But the point 2) completely fails - the disease is a somewhat bad seasonal cold, and countries which mostly ignored the said dystopia are not even the worst, let alone orders of magnitude worse than others.
4)So the dystopia is implemented solelyt because someone wanted to implement the dystopia

After that you can continue to switch the goalposts, cherrypick and compare nothing with nothing, but that still will be purely irrelevant.

>>12063375
Oh, so being prepared for a tsunami changes the physiology of the lungs in the Japanese?

>>12063370
Because you can kill yourself in many other ways, duh.

>>12063381
>a somewhat bad seasonal cold
>highest death toll in 150 years
K.

>>12063385
So you're saying we should wear masks because of lobsters?

>>12063389
Where have lockdowns erradicated the virus? Simple question.

>>12063381
Then this issue becomes a political problem regarding healthcare as a whole.

If the preventable deaths by SARS2 mean nothing to you, which diseases are worth being treated? I figure most cancers, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes 2 and so on are negligible to you.

What disease should we treat then?

>>12063394
Nowhere, but it's lowered death rates. Where has not locking down eradicated the virus?

>>12063389
That's true, we finally realized that it's a somewhat bad seasonal cold and that it justifies zero covidist measures. In fact that would be true even in New York which (if taken as a separate country) has the largest death rate in the world. But we can switch the goalposts a bit and chat about something else. Just be aware of the goalposts.

>>12063385
Yes. Being prepared for emergency situations makes them more likely to comply with healthcare measures, which, since they don't get the pathoanatomic changes of an infected person, we can assume their lung physiology changed.

>>12063398
>a somewhat bad seasonal cold
>highest death toll in 150 years

>>12063394
Which government has gave a shit about erradicating the virus? Which company in the US?

>>12063400
>since they don't get the pathoanatomic changes
Japan has more pneumonia deaths annually than the USA.

>>12063396
>it's lowered death rates
Until the countries in question open back up, that is. There's talk of new lockdowns in Spain or NZ. So in the end you've only stalled the achieving of herd immunity.

>Where has not locking down eradicated the virus?
Sweden has ~0 daily deaths at the moment.

>>12063408
But they don't die from SARS2. The pathoanatomic changes from tsunami preparedness are a protective factor against SARS2.

>>12063395
>Then this issue becomes a political problem regarding healthcare as a whole.
It was political from the beginning?
>If the preventable deaths by SARS2 mean nothing to you, which diseases are worth being treated?
If you are just doing research and inventing new drugs, then whatever you want.
If you force everyone under house arrest, destroy the economy and introduce a tracing dystopia, then literally nothing. Don't even try.
> I figure most cancers, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes 2 and so on are negligible to you. What disease should we treat then?
You probably should go to the transhumanist/anti-aging thread with this? Because if you will not find immortality, even the minuscule benefit from the anticovid will disappear in a year.

>>12063404
No True Scotman fallacy.

So apparently lockdowns failed, not because they are unworkable in real life, but because all governments in the world "didn't care enough".

>>12063409
>Until the countries in question open back up, that is.
So you're working from the assumption that every single vaccine being trialed will fail?

>Sweden has ~0 daily deaths at the moment.
Haha, yeah, no reported deaths on the 29th, you're right. They had 5 deaths yesterday, however, and more deaths for the entire month of August than the rest of Scandinavia, and more new cases too.

>>12063416
>It was political from the beginning?
Then post about it on >>>/pol/. What a government does with the health of their citizens is not the concern of science.

Now get the fuck out.
>>>/pol/

>>12063403
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it. Now the dystopic measures against it is a real harm, so Sweden did surprisingly well, praise Tegnell.

>>12063413
I can't argue against that. It's just a shame for Japan that preparing for tsunamis works so well against SARS-CoV-2 but not influenza.

>>12063420
We can both agree that lockdowns and masks are malignant politically, and then discuss various scientific aspects of them.

>>12063417
Fallacy fallacy.

Point out the reason lockdowns doesn't work.

>>12063423
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063419
>So you're working from the assumption that every single vaccine being trialed will fail?
No, you are working under the assumption that you can keep all the people locked up until a vaccine is here without the world economy collapsing. You are a psychopath.

>Haha, yeah, no reported deaths on the 29th, you're right. They had 5 deaths yesterday, however, and more deaths for the entire month of August than the rest of Scandinavia, and more new cases too.
Fact is, the pandemic is nearly over in Sweden. They are close to herd immunity. In the rest of Scandinavia a single reinfection can bring everything crashing down again.

>>12063433
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

>>12063431
Already pointed out ITT.

>>12063431
If you believe that they work, then what was >>12063404 about?

>>12063440
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063403
>highest population in 150 years
>usually when people die while having the cold virus we don't automatically say they died of the cold

>>12063438
>You are a psychopath.
He surely is. He is already comparing countries with tens covid deaths per month and trying to bring the new lockdowns out of that. When no one will be dying from covid, he'll use coughing as an excuse for house arrests.

>>12063454
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

>>12063438
>In the rest of Scandinavia a single reinfection can bring everything crashing down again.
They do have new infections, there's been new infections for six months, nothing has come crashing down in that time, they still have death and infection rates well below Sweden despite the fact that they've opened up significantly. Maybe there's just something about the physiology of those Swedes that makes them prone to catching the virus, those poor people.

>>12063455
>usually when people die while having the cold virus we don't automatically say they died of the cold
Cause of death has nothing to do with all-cause mortality. All we know is more people have died at this point of the year than in the last 150 years, and the excess mortality has higher than the last 5 years combined.

>>12063458
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063459
So they opened up, wear no masks, yet have no cases? Lockdowners and maskers completely destroyed.
>Maybe there's just something about the physiology of those Swedes that makes them prone to catching the virus, those poor people.
Umm, no, 60 deaths per month is less than 28K deaths.

>>12063468
>So they opened up, wear no masks, yet have no cases?
>"they do have new infections"
Um...

>>12063467
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

>>12063475
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063474
Are you a schizophrenic? Can you at least remember the contents of your previous post?

>>12063483
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

Otherwise you will get both corona and dystopia.

>>12063459
This doesn't support the lockdown argument. Read your post again.

>>12063459
Sweden currently has no lockdowns and masks and has almost no deaths.
Finland, Denmark, Norway currently have no lockdowns and masks and has almost no deaths.
Meanwhile many masked and lockdowned countries have more deaths than them.

>>12063486
>can't distinguish between "no" and "new"

>>12063502
>>12063513
Locking down and lowering cases to almost nothing allows a degree of opening up so long as new infections are traced and quarantined. Not complicated.

>>12063517
Anon, Scandinavians currently are opened up and wear very little masks. They also have very little cases. It doesn't matter if it's literal zero, or not - in any case it shows that currently they are doing great.

>>12063530
>in any case it shows that currently they are doing great.
Yup, a lockdown success story!

>>12063492
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063537
*no-masks success story
*also no-lockdown success story

>>12063463
I wouldn't say that's "all we know"

>>12063546
Took you some time, let's begin again (by the way, thread is in bumplimit, so you are not obscuring anything).

Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

Otherwise you will get both corona and dystopia.

>>12063433
>>12063454
>>12063467
>>12063483
>>12063546
what is the aristotelian name for this argument technique

>>12063553
Looks like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

Proof by assertion, sometimes informally referred to as proof by repeated assertion, is an informal fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction.[1] Sometimes, this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due to its not being contradicted (argumentum ad nauseam).[2] In other cases, its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority or appeal to belief fallacies.[3]

This fallacy is sometimes used as a form of rhetoric by politicians, or during a debate as a filibuster. In its extreme form, it can also be a form of brainwashing.[1] Modern politics contains many examples of proofs by assertion. This practice can be observed in the use of political slogans, and the distribution of "talking points", which are collections of short phrases that are issued to members of modern political parties for recitation to achieve maximum message repetition. The technique is also sometimes used in advertising.[4]

>>12063549
>No lockdown - highest death toll 150 years
>Lockdown followed by reduced restrictions - average mortality year
Lockdown success story!

>>12063552
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063463
Since most countries went into lockdown and excess mortality is so high, isn't this evidence that lockdowns are deadly?

>>12063564
Anon, will you now repeat this greentext too? It will not become any more true from that.
>Lockdown success story!
Yes, lockdown is a vast gross abuse of every citizen. No corona will change that. So countries which had no lockdowns would be way better than lockdowners in any case.

>>12063575
Sweden's the only country with the highest death toll in 150 years.

>>12063575
This. Sweden isn't even the first by mortality, let alone orders worse than the second place. That's in total, but now it is vastly better than many lockdowners.

>>12063582
Wait what does it mean that excess deaths are "more than the last 5 years combined"? Shouldn't the average number of excess deaths be zero?

>>12063117
>Meanwhile Congo has ~4K cases and less than 100 deaths. Africans are truly the greatest people.
True, but they're probably used to dealing with frequent communicable disease outbreaks

>>12063582
Sweden has almost half of Belgium mortality and is three times better than New York or New Jersey.

>>12063589
Yeah, I guess it helps that Sweden's underreporting their COVID-19 deaths, but all-cause mortality shows how bad their situation is.

>>12063597
Wow, we are entering the conspiracy here. While we are at it, mos countries are just artificially inflating their corona numbers by pushing everything into corona. In fact corona is not a bad seasonal cold, but just a normal seasonal cold.

>>12063570
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

Otherwise you will get both corona and dystopia.

>>12063604
>Wow, we are entering the conspiracy here.
No anon. I'm looking at all-cause mortality. When a country has more expected deaths than the number of reported COVID-19 deaths, then they're probably underreporting. It's possible to overreport as well, sure. But Sweden's setting records for their number of deaths.

>In fact corona is not a bad seasonal cold, but just a normal seasonal cold.
Highest death toll in 150 years.

>>12063588
There's also a certain antimalarial in common use over there, surely just a coincidence

>>12063608
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063597
Do you think anywhere is overreporting their deaths?

>>12063617
>No anon. I'm looking at all-cause mortality. When a country has more expected deaths than the number of reported COVID-19 deaths, then they're probably underreporting. It's possible to overreport as well, sure. But Sweden's setting records for their number of deaths.
No, it's you who are trying to switch attention from his corona fiasco.
>Highest death toll in 150 years.
https://medium.com/@emanuelkarlsten/more-swedes-died-in-one-month-1993-and-2000-compared-to-april-2020-why-25b762d03a1f

>>12063623
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

Otherwise you will get both corona and dystopia.

>>12063625
Wouldn't surprise me. Countries have very different standards for how they classify deaths. All-cause mortality gets around that issue.

>>12063628
>https://medium.com/@emanuelkarlsten/more-swedes-died-in-one-month-1993-and-2000-compared-to-april-2020-why-25b762d03a1f
One month compared to the first eight months. COVID-19 was killing people for more than a month. Sweden's on pace for it's highest mortality year since the Swedish famine in the 19th century.

>>12063643
>COVID-19 was killing people for more than a month.
Only in April in May. In June it was way lower, and in July-August went down to almost zero. Of course even April numbers don't justify anything lockdownist.
>Sweden's on pace for it's highest mortality year since the Swedish famine in the 19th century.
That's both irrelevant and false.

>>12063631
>"somewhat bad seasonal cold"
>"highest death toll in 150 years
>statistical fluke

>>12063643
>Sweden's on pace for it's highest mortality year since the Swedish famine in the 19th century.
lol
You are hysterical. People will take your types less seriously when you post shit like this so keep it up.

>>12063651
>Only in April in May. In June it was way lower, and in July-August went down to almost zero.
All-cause mortality was elevated from March to July.

>That's both irrelevant and false.
It's not false. 2020 is on pace to be much worse than 1993 and 2000.

>>12063652
Yes, "highest death toll in 150 years" is still a "somewhat bad seasonal cold" and a statistical fluke and repeating the greentext will not change it.

Remember that to fight the lockdowners you should avoid masks whenever you can, ignore lockdown itself, ignore testing, go to protests and vote for someone less malignant if you can.

Otherwise you will get both corona and dystopia.

>>12063653
>You are hysterical. People will take your types less seriously when you post shit like this so keep it up.
Unfortunately it's not a joke. Sweden has more deaths at the current week than in any year since the 1800's.

>>12063653
He is already posting shit like:
>>12063309
>Taiwan compared to Scandinavia proves that not wearing masks kills.

Guess Congo is wonderful and North Korea is the best (it supposedly has no corona deaths at all).

>>12063658
>worse than 1993 and 2000.
19TH CENTURY SWEDISH FAMINE

>>12063667
Yup. Worse than 1993, worse than 2000, worse than every single year since 1869.

>>12063665
Do you have week-by-week death numbers for more than a century? Quite impressive.

>>12063674
What was the population of Sweden in 1869?
Retard

>>12063675
Apparently Sweden does.

"Sweden recorded its highest death tally in 150 years during the first six months of 2020, the country’s statistics office said on Wednesday."

>>12063679
Okay, do it by deaths per million, in which case it still exceeds 2000 and 1993.

>>12063686
>it still exceeds 2000 and 1993.
But not 2019 and 2018?

>>12063682
No, please bring me week-by-week data to see if it's worse in general (and is still worse now).

>>12063674
Well, supposedly it is better than every year in the last two centuries if it is better than at least two of them.

>>12063728
Write Sweden's Statics office anon, maybe they'll be able to help you out.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sweden-records-highest-death-tally-in-150-years-in-first-six-months-of-2020

>>12063747
>The economy of Finland also outperformed its larger neighbour in the second quarter, despite a tougher lockdown. Finland’s gross domestic product shrank around 5% against an 8.6% contraction in Sweden from the previous three-month period.
Wait, so Sweden didn't lock down, and their economy still did worse than Finland's?

>>12063747
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sweden-records-highest-death-tally-in-150-years-in-first-six-months-of-2020
>In total, 51,405 Swedes died in the January to June period, a higher number than any year since 1869 when 55,431 died, partly as a result of a famine. The population of Sweden was around 4.1 million then, compared to 10.3 million now.
Wow, anon, you are truly a genius!

>>12063770
See >>12063686, since 1993 and 2000 were supposed to be exceptional years according to >>12063628.

>>12063779
Anon, do you know basic arithmetics? What is worse: 55K dying in 4 million country or 51K dying in 10 million country (with way older population)? And how much worse?

>>12063791
>Anon, do you know basic arithmetics?
>"deaths per million"
It's worse than 1993 and 2000 when accounting for population. Try again.

>>12063795
Oh no, as said before
https://medium.com/@emanuelkarlsten/more-swedes-died-in-one-month-1993-and-2000-compared-to-april-2020-why-25b762d03a1f
more Swedes died in the most bad corona month than in 2000 and 1993. Not to mention that Swedish population was 13% and 15% smaller in these years. So no, anon you probably shouldn't try again. We just proved that real trouble is (at least) three times worse than corona, and that corona is far from being the worst thing during the last few decades.

>>12063822
>more Swedes died in the most bad corona month than in 2000 and 1993.
Yup, too bad Sweden had a very high mortality rate for at least four months in 2020.

>Not to mention that Swedish population was 13% and 15% smaller in these years.
And per capita deaths for 2020 are higher, so what does the smaller population matter?

>>12063791
>What is worse: 55K dying in 4 million country or 51K dying in 10 million country
Since when do you care about per capita when your comparison with the USA always involves total deaths and ignores Sweden having the higher per capita death rate? >>12063210

You really are a sleazy person.

>>12063830
Yup indeed anon. You just majestically proved that real trouble is several times worse than the cold we are having now. Next time try to look at population sizes and do some arithmetic, OK?
>And per capita deaths for 2020 are higher, so what does the smaller population matter?
No, it is lower. Which proves that corona isn't a black plague or famine, but is just a somewhat bad seasonal cold which merits only better handling of hospitals, but nothing more.

>>12063851
>No, it is lower.
For the first six months, it's higher. Why are you isolating single months?

>>12063833
Because your entire argument is based on per capita. But great, we can compare only absolute numbers and then no-lockdown no-mask Sweden turns into a miracle compared to USA. By the way, in August Sweden did tens of times better than USA. So enjoy your deaths until you will get herd immunity.

>>12063865
>Because your entire argument is based on per capita.
You obsess over total deaths for the entire thread, and when someone shows you how stupid that is (most deaths in 150 years), you freak out and turn to per capita. So now we're at per capita, where Sweden is worse than the USA and most other countries. Kudos anon, it took you long enough to get there, but you made it.

>>12063860
Because I look at months when corona hit the hardest (we are discussing corona, right?). Why not isolate several years, or single week? By the way, if you want to compare per capita, take in account 13-15% population difference (+somewhat older population).

>>12063878
>Because I look at months when corona hit the hardest
COVID-19 was killing people from March to July, resulting in elevated deaths for all of those months.

>By the way, if you want to compare per capita, take in account 13-15% population difference
Per capita explicitly takes population difference into account, that's what it's for.

>>12063305
>That's why ignoring masks and lockdowns is the only way out. Either you crush covidists, or they will crush you, but at least you will provide some resistance.
I WILL DO ANYTHING FOR MY COUNTRY! BUT NOT WEAR A MASK!

>>12063309
>Taiwan compared to Scandinavia proves that not wearing masks kills. We can do this all day.
Hey, don't confuse Sweden with the rest of Scandinavia!