/sci/ - Science & Math

Virgin galactic first flight when?

This is how I go to Mars using mostly existing products.

Put a really long boom on the iss and a nuclear propulsion system on it.

Modify a falcon 9 booster. So it can get to the iss itself. Then refuel it, attach a crew dragon to it, and attach it to the iss. Once in orbit. It will land on its own and be the ascent vehicle. To return to the iss.

Decent will be a separate crew dragon with propulsion landing and air bags.

The surface hab, rover, and everything else will be sent by FHeavy launches ahead of time.

4 man mission. 2 stay in orbit on the iss. The other 2 go to the surface and back. They have to fight to decide who gets to land.

reminder that mars is flat, space is fake and the earth is just a blue star in the sky

>>12054214
I rally want LUVOIR to fly, even if there’s a 99% chance it stays on paper

I still hold out an autistic hope that some madman tinkerer will figure out a trick to building a warp drive. God damn space is just so depressingly vast....

>>12054242
Me too bro but you gotta realize that FTL violates causality already. FTL also would mean time travel is real, which in lies the problem.

>>12054242
Is there any possible way a generation ship WON'T devolve into technobarbarism and shipwide civil war two or three generations into a trip?

>>12054249
Airlock the dissidents and the generations born on the ship are told the earth is in ruins.

>>12054249
>Small population of around 500 at the start (250 breeding pairs, which is enough to ensure a “backup” of humanity)
>Keep the children educated and willing to work on the ship
>Don’t break anything for 500 or so years

>>12054259
How to address the eventual shipwide ennui that comes as whole generations realize their entire lives are in service to just keeping the lights on and making the next batch of crew? The people who chose to leave are probably cool with the idea or they wouldn't have left, but their kids and grandkids born onboard? Seems like a recipe for disaster.

>>12053399
why does ULA suck so hard?

>>12054264
>>Keep the children educated and willing to work on the ship
What if one of them is a little 'off' and manages to hide it from the others? Pic related.

>>12054270
Unironically religious groups have it down really well when it comes to generation ships. Degeneracy is shunned so people either aren’t freaks, or just hide it.

>>12054282
Mormon Tabernacle Star-shot when?
Then again with how religions can warp and change over time, the people arriving at their destinations might have weird hangups about the heathens down in engineering, or the heretics on the bridge with their blasphemous notions of "calling home".

>>12054246
I think its a lot more complicated than that. I expect that if you used a warp drive and tried to follow a path that would lead to timefuckery, you would find quantum interference made it impossible.

>>12054249
There is no guarantee that it won't. It's the kind of risk you sign your lineage up for when you get aboard a ship of such design. I'd say that near-stasis or prolonged induced torpor combined with substantial life extension will need to be used. It can both extend the length of each generation aboard the ship and also conserve supplies. By the time you can build something as big as a generation ship with a drive efficient enough to get you to another solar system you can probably automate the vast majority of labor.
Assuming colonists can spend one month in hybernation/torpor for every month they're awake, you've probably close to doubled your ship's endurance.
It goes without saying that a generation ship will probably run off of some kind of extraordinarily efficient and reliable fusion reactor, likely with at least tripple redundancy, electrical power won't be an issue but raw supplies will be. You'll want a lot more than double the absolutely necessary amount of food, water, soil, bacterial culture, atmosphere, etc. Probably more like ten times as much as absolutely necessary.
Probably you'd want a generation ship to fly with a fleet of cargo ships filled to the brim with spare parts and supplies.

>>12054214

What are some potential alternatives to Falcon 9 style retropropulsive landing for reusable systems?

Helicopter recovery with unfolding rotor blades?

>>12054231
Who doesn't want bigger scientific instruments? Too bad JWST is a mess and has destroyed much of the project credibility. I hope an increase in launchers payload and maximum diameter will generate more interest and make possible more ambitious, less complicated designs. I for one would love to see the giant 1km diameter transparent sphere lens telescope happen.

>>12054266
Get it in their heads that they're tge chosen. The saviors of humanity. Also keep them occupied. Work should be a minor part of their day. The rest is recreational.

The other alternative. Is you create a medieval society on board. The inside of the ship is the world and always has been. The sacred safe hold for God's children. The nobility and ruling elite in church would be the only ones to know the truth and keep the ship going.

>>12054307
Unironically, SMART reuse

>>12054303
Cryonics intrigues me since it makes sublightspeed space travel much much easier. Pretty wild that it essentially makes time travel a reality. Imagine going to a distant planet, getting a colony started, and then going back home, having perceptually been at it for 20 years but thousands of years having passed for the earth you left. Imagine finding yourself in a footnote in some old account of early history.

>>12054307
Hypersonic air breathing scram jet space-plane boosters.

"Let's be very honest again," Bolden said in a 2014 interview. "We don't have a commercially available heavy lift vehicle. Falcon 9 Heavy may someday come about. It's on the drawing board right now. SLS is real. You've seen it down at Michoud. We're building the core stage. We have all the engines done, ready to be put on the test stand at Stennis... I don't see any hardware for a Falcon 9 Heavy, except that he's going to take three Falcon 9s and put them together and that becomes the Heavy. It's not that easy in rocketry."

>>12054307
An idea I had was parachute assisted retropropulsive landing. It would go like
>Use engines to boost back to landing site or barge
>Use engines again for reentry
>Use engines to slow booster down enough for a chute to deploy
>Chute guides the booster to landing spot
>Chute and engines slow down the booster for a landing
It can be a viable low-tech solution to recover boosters, even if it only really works for Earth. IIRC EXOS Aerospace did something similar.

>>12054326
Why would you go home? At best you become a pop culture novelty. Then you get put in the home for time displaced fossils.

>>12054335
That only works if the context is right. Just posting it randomly kills the magic.

>>12054307
Too complicated, and no helicopter has ever been built to lift that much weight. You can simply use airbrakes and ballutes, but you'll probably have to settle for your vehicle ending up in the ocean because retropropulsion is what gives you the fine control to land right ontop of the target.
It's true that boats can catch the parachuting fairing segments from Falcon, but a parachuting fairing is not the same scale of problem as a parachuting rocket stage.

Basically, there are other ways, but the reason SpaceX and pretty much everybody else who's considering reuse chose retropropulsion is because it's the best anybody's been able to think of.

>>12054339
This is a great idea. I always wondered if SpaceX could fit a dragon heat shield to the “top” of Falcon 9 Stage 2 and place some landing legs facing “up” near it. Stage 2 could then deorbit using its normal deorbit burn, but would stay oriented by a series of titanium fins near the base of S2. As the vehicle reaches transonic speeds it can then deploy air brakes and then parachutes then land with its legs out but upside down. If needed, it could fire a SRB on landing like soyuz.

Dragon has like 51 heat shield tiles that are 50 kg each or so, plus around 1000 kilos for the legs, 1000 for the parachute, and fins. It would have a penalty of like 4 tons in the vehicle, which is enough for a Falcon Heavy to boost 25 tons into LEO while being fully reusable.

>>12054320
>SMART reuse
>smart
That's like recovering the engines from an airliner but then dumping the fuselage, avionics, control surfaces, etc into the ocean after every flight.

>>12054349
>Basically, there are other ways, but the reason SpaceX and pretty much everybody else who's considering reuse chose retropropulsion is because it's the best anybody's been able to think of.
It's funny how retropropulsion has always been the best option in every way, but it was completely ignored until SpaceX was forced to do it because everyone thought the problem of reliably relighting an engine in the air and landing a stage was just toooo hard

>>12054384
To be fair, the computing power needed to do retropropulsive landings weren't small enough nor cheap enough to be viable until recently.

>>12054400
thic

I really want Skylon to be built, the idea of sheer autism actually making a pretty decent SSTO spaceplane possible appeals to me strongly.

>>12054415
Me too but it’s BTFO in an era of TSTO fully reusable rockets.

Post rocketfus

>>12054439

>>12054417
I mean, they're partnered with Rolls-Royce and getting decent funding, I think "BTFO" is pretty ignorant. The system has clear advantages over any two-stage conventional rocket system for some types of missions and roles. The military is probably very interested in a hypersonic spaceplane that can carry 15 tons to orbit.

>>12054468

>>12054415
>SSTO
>Decent
r u ok Anon?

>>12054515
There is only ONE decent SSTO

>>12054547
Based and nookpilled

>>12054515
It is-it can chuck 15 tons to orbit with 270 tons of fuel. It's actually more fuel efficient than a falcon 9. And it has all the benefits of being able to use modified existing infrastructure for landings and takeoffs, which can be in them middle of urban areas instead of needing to be very isolated.

I'm not saying it is BETTER in every way than any 2 stage rocket,but it does have some potential advantages in some situations.

>>12054214
>that pic
HOL ON WYBOI

>>12054560
Given that Reaction Engines has removed any mention of Skylon from their site, I'm guessing it's ded.

>>12054439

>>12054246
My problem with this argument is that it's usually presented as physicists crying about having a harder job rather than any physical reason it couldn't work.

>>12054246
Warp drive ala Alcuberie drive wouldn't violate FTL travel but would instead move the space itself, which is a way around the problem.

>>12054439
It's starship so shut up

>>12054349

The rotors don't even need to be powered, they can just spin up from airflow and autorotate. See:

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogyro

IMO this is the ideal recovery system for earth-based launch systems.

>>12054439

>>12054439
and

>>12054474
Personally I'm hoping the precooler tech can be adapted into a blast-chiller for my beers

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1299003457916080134
>NASA commercial spaceflight director Phil McAlister: In the mid-2020s the agency should "re-compete both the cargo and the crew contracts" (which are currently held by SpaceX, Boeing, Sierra Nevada Corporation, Northrop Grumman).
>McAlister: "I am going to really push hard for us to reduce those transportation costs, that's going to be a real goal for NASA ... in the re-competes we want those costs to come down, not only for our benefit but to also hopefully attain sustainable commercial operations."

>>12054826
The later 3 will likely become irrelevant

>Falcon 1 will never fly
>Grasshopper will never hop
>Falcon 9 will never fly
>Dragon will never fly
>Falcon 9 will never return to launch site
>Falcon 9 will never land on a barge
>Falcon Heavy will never fly
>Crew Dragon will never fly
>Starhopper will never hop
>Starship prototype will never hop
-you are here-
>Starship will never fly
>Superheavy will never fly
>Starship will never land on the Moon
>Starship will never land on Mars
>SpaceX will never make a self-sustaining civilization on Mars


Feel free to use this as copypasta against salty oldspacers. Did I miss anything?

>>12054678
>>12054785
reminder that the universe itself is cheating that rule simply by making the space itself expanding faster than the speed of light

>>12054860
You could throw in some stuff about starlink.

>>12054860
Fairing capture

>>12054860
>Fabricator-General Musk will never rule Mars

>>12054887
They got a double-catch already, right? Or just 1/2?

>>12054439

>>12054890
They got both

>>12054899
Noice

>>12054890
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=656bd3k0o1A
They caught both

>>12054912
Noice twoice.

>>12054400
sad that oldspace came so close to going in the right direction put it petered out.

>>12054860
How the fuck will Starship land on Mars with full cargo? I literally can not wait to see what kind of insane shit spacex comes up with for Mars entry,it's going to be glorious.

>>12054990
The same way?

>>12054990
it's just a 54.6 million kilometer hop, bro.

>>12054918
The problem was that NASA failed to recognize the "right direction" because the DC-X wasn't what NASA was looking for. While the DC-X was an impressive technical demonstration, it was merely a sub-orbital hopper when NASA was looking for SSTO demonstrators. NASA begrudgingly carried on with the DC-X, but they clearly wanted the X-33 more.

>>12054990
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00CpItR97zY

>>12054560
>It's actually more fuel efficient than a falcon 9
Doesn't matter because fuel is the cheapest part of any launch vehicle. Even the total propellant load on the Saturn V only cost a few hundred thousand dollars.

>>12054990
Literally exactly like it lands on Earth; come in bellyflopping to lose 99% of kinetic energy to drag, backflip a minute before landing and fire up the engines, landing burn, land.

>>12055017
best design desu

but I fucking hate the toenail windows on all of them

>>12055017
the turn will be propulsive as well I think

>>12054860
This actually does a good job of illustrating all our doubts. Falcon 1 was embarrassing and F9 BARELY worked the first three launches. I think I made the switch the day he proved grasshopper was worth it and landed a falcon 9 stage.

Also I agree with >>12054880, add something about Starlink
>Hundreds of in-house starlink satellites with ion drives will never fly

>>12055034
>>12055005
How will they kill that much velocity in Mars' shitty atmosphere though?

Oh boy more money for the SSTO meme. Though, I do hope they get it working. I don't see the value besides passenger transport.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-notes/rolls-royce-invests-hypersonic-engine-developer/?utm_source=social&utm_medium=Sendible&utm_campaign=RSS

>>12054789
God damned fucking mexicans and your obsession with dragonbawls.

>>12055060
>>12055080
The animation is one year old, some design decisions were revisited since then.

>>12055121

>>12055034
but there is going to be no landing pad for it to land on

>>12055118
Mars' atmosphere with Starship's L/D ratio lets you scrub 99% of kinetic energy, Earth's much beefier atmosphere lets you scrub 99.9% of kinetic energy. Basically this means, since Earth orbit is about twice as fast as Mars low orbit, that Starship will slow down to about 900 km/h in Mars' atmosphere before the landing burn begins.
0.6% of Earth's atmospheric pressure is still quite a bit of atmosphere, and it's also CO2 which means you get more dynamic pressure for the same air speed and air pressure compared to Earth's nitrogen and oxygen gas mix.

>>12055181
That can be accounted for-some parts of mars are fairly flat and you can build landing legs that can handle slightly uneven terrain.

>>12055181
The first ones will land on the unprepared ground, and later ones will land on simple pads set up using materials and machines sent in the first Starships. Landing on an unprepared surface is only an issue if it isn't leveled, and blowing debris around is only an issue for Starships that you want to guarantee reflights on. Basically if you're treating the first dozen Starships as prototypes that are carrying payloads in case they get lucky, the no-pad issue stops being an issue, because you can just build a simple prepared landing surface fairly easily.

>>12055192
Well i guess that does make sense. I'm guessing they'll go for a polar landing to avoid the mountains and get near the ice for ISRU?

>>12055199
Some parts of Mars are also large areas of exposed bedrock, you couldn't ask for a more stable surface.

Today in history:
>2003 – Mars makes its closest approach to Earth in nearly 60,000 years, passing 34,646,418 miles (55,758,005 km) distant.

>>12055181
Just send a module to build a pad beforehand.

>>12055204
The polar regions are very mountainous, and ice exists everywhere on Mars within a few inches of the surface everywhere except near the equator, basically. It's probably there too, just deeper.

>>12055181
Just print the pad beforehand.

>>12055208
I’m wondering what happens if Starship comes in for a landing and all its sensors are like “oh fuck, nothing is flat and there’s boulders everywhere”
Surely they’ll be picking the general landing sight before hand though.

>>12055209
>tfw fell for the "Mars will be as large as the moon during it's closest approach" spoof as a kid

>>12055237
I used to think Mars was warmer than Earth when I was a kid. I suppose it's because we associate red with heat.

>>12055240
Didn't people believe Mars was habitable before the first probes got there?

>>12055181
Speaking of which, I don't remember if this was already stated, but the first Spaceship flight to Mars will be unmanned, cargo/payload only, right?

>>12055237
>>12055240
Growing up I assumed the Space Shuttle took routine flights to all the planets, and astronauts would open the cargo bay and drop instruments into gas giants and land on rocky planets. Also I had a DK book about space with a picture of a black hole. I was fascinated and assumed one of the voyager spacecrafts casually saw one and took a picture
>>12055256
Ummm I know when they first started looking with telescopes they assumed it was manned. I think by the time the first flyby mission was sent (Mariner 4) scientists across the world assumed it MIGHT harbor life. We really didn’t know anything about it because we had never seen it up close

>>12055273
Certainly.

>>12055181
Send 10 starships with hundred of spots.
Build launch pad remotely.

Fuck ULA and Fuck Delta-4 Heavy scrubs.
That is all.

>>12055348
we need the delta next gen

>>12055353
Go skinny dip in liquid hydrogen.

>>12055353
24m next next next gen delta when?

I wonder if cryogenic methane could replace jet fuel in airliners, without taking up more space.

>>12055256
>>12055284
Italian scientist Schiaparelli discovered channels (canali) on Mars. He made no claim as to their origin.
Briefly, in English this was mistranslated as canals - canals being manmade. This was quickly corrected but remained in the American consciousness. Inspired Edgar Rice Burroughs - who wrote Tarzan and created the California neighborhood Tarzana - to write John Carter of Mars.

Nevertheless, mistranslation aside, speculation raged as to the origins of Schiaparelli's channels. It's not so much that people thought it was inhabited, it's that people HOPED it was. Same thing Europa and Titan. Unfounded, pointless, human hope.

The channels are mostly optical illusions, though some from extinct waterways and former flooding of the surface. The possibility exists, however remote, that somewhere below the Arean surface, in a pool of liquid water, there exists life. Here's hoping.
>A clement twilight zone on a synchronously rotating Mercury, a swamp‐and‐jungle Venus, and a canal‐infested Mars, while all classic science‐fiction devices, are all, in fact, based upon earlier misapprehensions by planetary scientists.
- Carl Sagan

>>12055353
>Next Generation Delta (8m CBC, 4 RS-68)
Isn't that Ares 5?

hydrolox airliners when?

>>12055379
Apparently Skunk works got a contract to work on a hydrolox bomber and they stopped the program and gave the DoD their money back after they nearly blew up San Diego

>>12055384
LMAO
Was this back when Kelly Johnson was still kicking around?

>>12055368
I believe the Russians flirted with the idea some given Russia's vast LNG infrastructure (ex: Sukhoi KR-860, and Tupolev Tu-155), but the idea didn't progress far. Probably because the cryo was too much of a hassle to deal with, even in Siberia, compared to kerosene.

>>12055387
KSP as fuck

>>12055387
This was under Ben Rich during the 80s or 90s.

>>12055368
~50% larger tanks for the same energy if you're sucking in oxidizer from the atmosphere. The ~18% larger tanks on Starship is when you consider subcooled RP1+LOX against subcooled methane + LOX in their respective mixing ratios. Airliners don't use subcooled fuel so I'm being generous with density.

>Mars flight is 2 years from now
I don't doubt that Starship won't be ready by then, but where will all of the supplies to be shipped over there come from?

>>12055398
Johnson's successor, okay.
Skunk Works does some pretty cool shit, I bet even in failure they got something out of it.

>>12055416
He wrote a pretty kino book about his time there. Would recommend.

>Johnson had a 15th rule that he passed on by word of mouth. According to the book "Skunk Works" the 15th rule is: "Starve before doing business with the damned Navy. They don't know what the hell they want and will drive you up a wall before they break either your heart or a more exposed part of your anatomy."[25]

>>12055425
they're working on a fusion reactor now

>>12055434
I want it to work so badly.

Maybe we could have some kind of Tom Clancy bullshit where Elon somehow buys skunkworks and rescues it from the clutches of oldspace.

I fucking love lockheed martin

>>12055232
It can still do a controlled approach to the ground and hope for the best. It will probably fall over and go boom, but it shouldn't be worse than an airplane going boom on a bad landing. With an unmanned cargo flight, that means some of the cargo might even be recoverable by a manned mission.
>>12055256
Some guy saw "canals", which were really imperfections in his shitty telescope lenses.

>>12055447
I honestly think they're going to get beat by Helion Energy. Helion are currently doing testing with a full-scale prototype,and from what I hear it's going exactly as planned. Their design doesn't require tritium breeding, produces fewer,less energetic neutrons,and it can take advantage of direct energy conversion instead of needing to use a steam turbine, so it's a lot more efficient. If it works, it could actually quickly and effectively supersede fossil fuels for power production in a way that would be far more expensive and challenging for intermittent power sources.

>>12055408
http://nasawatch.com/archives/2018/08/update-on-that.html

>>12055507
why do you always post this when fusion is brought up? I haven't seen any info from them and their website reads as if they have nothing, no news section, no info about what their results are

>>12054439

>>12055644
imagine the smell

>>12055644
Is she half Russian mutt?

>>12055375
I think the "channels" ended up being determined to be an optical illusion. What the astronomers were seeing was the blood vessel patterns of their own retinas.

>>12054439

>>12055656
What's Mariner's valley?

>>12055660
Cute.

what the FUCK is wrong with his rotation bros

>>12055740
It's Unity, not us.

>>12055740
The fuck is wrong with yours?

> In 1948, Hugh Auchincloss Brown, an electrical engineer, advanced a hypothesis of catastrophic pole shift. Brown also argued that accumulation of ice at the poles caused recurring tipping of the axis, identifying cycles of approximately seven millennia.[8][9]
lmao the eternal electrical engineer

>>12055010
SSTOs are the most retarded meme of all time. It's like making a submarine car; it's gonna be shitty at everything.

Wasn't it mid 2020 2 months ago?

>>12055781
The mid 2020's somebody else might actually have made a functional rocket.

>>12055781
How exactly did Starliner outcompete Dreamchaser? Fuck starliner, it’s so gay

>>12055781
Twenty twenTIES, big difference.

>>12055781
that little 's' makes a big difference

>>12055781
>>12055802
Yeah I was confused at first too. I think he meant 2025-ish... not “June 2020”...

>>12055660
YES
THANK YOU
BLESSED IMAGE

why hasn't anyone other than ESA taken the equatorial colonypill

I assume everyone here is pro-colonisation and expansion because the universe is humanity's birthright and the continuation of consciousness is our holy mission

But are there any parts of the solar system or galaxy you think should be put aside as natural treasures? I don't think we should disassemble the rings of Saturn. That would suck.

>>12055867
Earth

>>12055867
people who want to disassemble planets are retarded and gay

>>12055867
Europa of course.
>>12055799
Because Boing was the "reliable" choice.

>>12055865
France is the only country that still has a colony on the equator
also, there's only a couple equatorial launch sites on Earth total that don't overfly land.

>>12055865
Cause NASA or ROSCOSMOS does not have clay there with developed harbor and other necessary infrastructure.

>>12055867
the rings of Saturn will disappear soon (in the next few million years)

>>12055884
just build it bruh

>>12055886
Saturn’s rings are fucking insane. We got such good RNG with our solar system. Had saturn not had rings, do you think we would know that planets are even capable of possessing rings of that size (apart from the small rings of jupiter and stuff?) ...Makes me wonder what else is possible in the Universe that we don’t know about, just because it happens to not be in our own solar system so we haven’t seen it yet

>>12055902
There’s an exoplanet with rings that make Saturn’s look like a string

>>12055353
>Boosters on your Boosters Boosters
Hydrolox is a hell of a drug.
>>12055368
Not in conventional ones,but in a Skylon-esque hypersonic airliner it could be done.
>>12055758
It's pretty good with orbital refueling though.

>>12055887
But muh delicate nature

>>12055902
Double planets or planetary horseshoe orbits would be a crazy sight to behold.

>>12055887
how viable would building a big complex on kwajalein be anyway
does the whole place flood in storms or what

>>12055656
I thought that they were MOSTLY illusion. But that you could see some waterways.
But I googled it and you're right.

>>12055425
I'll have to pick a copy up.

>>12055946
Mars does have waterways you just can’t make them out from Earth you can only make out albedo features

>>12055632
They are running in stealth mode. They have gained significant funding in recent years and most recently made a very positive report to ARPA-E about their experiments.

https://arpa-e.energy.gov/sites/default/files/ALPHATeamPanel1_DavidKirtley.pdf

If you have a Linkedin you will see they are building up their technical workforce and recently brought on an ex-NASA and Mitsubishi Talent Manager to help with a major company expansion. One of their more recent hires was an elite plasma physics Phd experimentalist on the MuSun experiment.

I am very very autistic and find fusion research to be my trains/Sonic the hedgehog. Sorry to bother you.

>>12055979
Lmao based. I don’t follow fusion too closely but I am autistically obsessed about Muons myself. If we found out a way to stabilize muons (or at least create a fast and cheap way to produce a shit load of them) we could catalyze fusion reactions and have room temperature reactors. As a mineralogist it’s my vanity dream to create a way to store Muons in a crystalline lattice

Is a shitty volcanic but habitable world like Mustafar really possible?

>>12056024
where would the air come from?

>>12056024
Technically yes but a LOT of different things would have to be there for it to be habitable. Any world like mustafar would most likely suffer from enormous atmospheric pressure, heat that goes off the chart, and a tendency for all the lava to just freeze over and turn to rock anyways. But again, it’s technically possible. Technically.

>>12056028
Photosynthesis and maybe some abiotic chemical activity like anywhere else.

>>12055027
Efficient as in is it converts more potential energy from propellants into kinetic in the form of thrust.
Starship/Raptor will generate more thrust from the same volume of propellants.

>>12056036
Mustafar was volcanic because of tidal forces; and the most obvious comparison would be Io, which does genuinely have lakes of boiling lava and plains of sulfur due to tidal forces from Jupiter, but lacks a magnetic field of its own and is pummeled by Jupiter’s radiation. Maybe a Terran-sized world with a magnetic field orbiting a gas giant in the habitable zone would be able to exhibit high volcanism while also sustaining a biosphere; and the constant nature of the eruptions would prevent more cataclysmic eruptions like those that happened to ancient Venus while also conferring fertility.

bro how the FUCK does running exhaust through a nozzle give you more thrust than just running the same exhaust through a straight pipe

>>12055117
>>Hundreds of in-house starlink satellites with ion drives will never fly
I think it was the 'launching 1000's of satellites' bit that no one believed. The 30x2 stack of starlink sats in one launch caught a lot of people off guard because up until that point, a satellite with that much data throughput was a big and boxy beast. I believe SpaceX did an Iridium launch with 6 sats at once and that was a big deal.

>>12056053
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Laval_nozzle

>>12056050
What do tidal forces have to do with it? Not trying to be patronizing or anything, genuinely trying to learn something here. I hear a lot of talk about “tidal flux” and such. Can tidal forces really be the difference between solid rock and magma ocean?

>>12056072
tidal forces pull on rocks and make them wiggle waggle around inside
wiggle waggling makes heat
make enough wiggle waggling and rocks melt

>>12055867
don't disassemble the planets at all, just disassemble the asteroids and comets and shit in the solar system

>>12056053
put your thumb on a hose and find out.

HYDROLOX JET PASSENGER AIRCRAFT WHEN?

>>12056079
yeah but why the fuck does that work

>>12056053
Output is output.
The heat and pressure of the exhaust on a modern ICE can account for up to a whopping 40% of the energy gasoline is converted into. That is the reason the turbocharger was designed for it. A turbocharger will take that exhaust pressure and use some of it to spool the turbines to force air into the engine. That way it can generate more power with the same displacement, by compressing the air into a smaller area.
Much like the Falcon9 with cryogenic propellants. Colder prop will allow more mass in the same volume, so you can use the same space/volume to generate more power.

>>12056085
Same force with smaller outlet? Open your mouth and exhale. Now put a straw in your mouth and exhale through it. Then swallow the straw retard.

>>12056076
Is just wondering how it compares to the heat and pressure of metamorphic / igneous rocks... especially in that sweet spot boundary where you get migmatites that start to liquify. I suppose if you have a planet JUST outside of the roche limit (I think that’s what it is called?) your rocks will thermally melt and lava will tend to stay liquid. We just don’t really talk about tidal forces in hard rock geology too much unfortunately

Isn't there a Delta IV launch scheduled tonight?
Followed by a back to back f9 launch, and hop this weekend?

Anyone stoked as fuck for the next decade? With shit like this >>12056100 already happening, we're gonna have fun.

>>12056072
Yes, if severe enough. Tides cause friction in the interior of bodies and thus heat, and the tides between Earth and the Moon were once strong enough to keep the Moon’s core molten and give it a powerful magnetic field, which protected an atmosphere potentially even thicker than the Earth’s current one, though this atmosphere sadly dissipated when the Moon drifted away from Earth over millions of years, causing the core to solidify, shutting down the magnetic field and subjecting the atmosphere to the solar wind, gradually stripping it away. Even today, the tidal effects of Earth on Luna cause a monthly cycle of moonquakes.

Io is still subject to intense tides which generate immense heat and stresses in the interior, resulting in constant volcanic activity that is observable as volcanic clouds thousands of kilometers high, a surface whose coloration is dominated by sulphur and sulphur compounds, a thin atmosphere of volcanic gasses, and open-air lakes of lava. Without significant tidal forces, the only source of internal heat a planet or moon could have would be leftover heat from accretion and heat generated by the decay of radioactive compounds, both of which are obviously limited in how long they’ll last, and deplete relatively quickly in the case of small bodies like Io, Ganymede, or Luna, which is why so many bodies are geologically dead.

>>12056085
Kinetic energy converts to thermal energy easily. Rub your hands together and experience the warmth that results for a very simple science experiment.

>>12056100
The Delta is being delayed till Saturday due to a ground support equipment issue.

why dont we put nozzles on car exhausts??

>>12056121
Holy fuck, three potential launches this weekend?

>>12056053
the shape of the nozzle causes less gas to come out at a higher speed, with the increased speed leading to a higher specific impulse

>>12055902
All the outer planets have rings, saturn's is just the most visible, uranus in particular has a ring you can see in photographs.

>>12056139

>>12056139
>uranus in particular has a ring you can see in photographs

>>12055871
wtf has mercury ever done for you bro?

>>12056115
Fucking cool. Thank you so much, I learned something today. Might I ask why a solar system body as volcanically active as Io doesn’t have an atmosphere? Wouldn’t its core be kept molten by the same tidal forces creating surface volcanism? Or is there some weird Jupiter radiation fuckery that is stripping the atmosphere despite a possible magnetic field?

>>12056139
Uranus needs to be wiped better.

>>12056139
Yeah I know I just didn’t want to list all the gas giants hahah. Uranus has a pretty ring, pic related, and even haumea has a ring system. But nothing is as astonishing or prevalent as Saturn’s rings... at least in the visible spectrum of light.

holy fuck uranus got all the extra chromosomes in the solar system

Imagine the smell Bros...

>>12056148
We use the Roman names for all the other planets, why can't we just call it Caelus?

So, gentlemen, what chances do you give to a hop this weekend?
I'm at an optimistic 75%, the static fire schedule was encouraging.

>>12056175
UNLIMITED METHANE, BROS

>>12056183
0%

t. inside knowledge

>>12056183
10% at most

>>12056187
Timestamp on a weld seam or gtfo

>>12056175
That planet needs to be fucking renamed, for too long english speaking beasts have tarnished the name of such majestic Ancient.

>>12056183
90%

>>12056193
I propose "Urectum"

>>12056183
I'm a doomer nigger who have nothing to do better in my life than to shitpost on a general for spaceflight in an anime imageboard.

I would say -100% hahaha spacex btfo fuck musk fuck space humans can't leave earth

>>12056121
>>12056128
ULA fucked everything up. Since it is launching a top secret payload, it has 100% full access to the launch area, and NO ONE else can launch until they sort their shit out.
Meaning both of SpaceX's launches get pushed back.
And the ULA had issues with their hydraulic system, good luck getting that fixed soon.
Oh, and part of their electrical system popped a couple fuses. They replaced them. LOL, no need to find out why, just replace em.

>>12056206
They did it on purpose.

>>12056199
...damn

>>12055034
>lands in a pocket of regolith and tips over
Nothing personnel

>>12056206
fucking hell

bruh wtf is wrong with miranda

>>12056193
>>12056179

>20km cliffs
bruh

>>12056219
God damn, look at those chevron folds. This is all due to fuckery from internal water-ice slush

>>12056151
>Might I ask why a solar system body as volcanically active as Io doesn’t have an atmosphere?

It has a very thin one, and it’s density varies by location and volcanic activity, but it gets fucked with by numerous factors. It’s mostly sulfur dioxide, and on the night side or when it’s eclipsed by Jupiter, it all freezes and turns into ice on the surface, turning into gas when it’s day again, and it’s also continually stripped off by Jupiter’s magnetic field. Particles produced by Io’s volcanism hang out around Io’s orbit and interact with Jupiter’s magnetic field to greatly increase the size of the gas giant’s magnetic field, which without Io’s presence and volcanism would be much smaller.

> Wouldn’t its core be kept molten by the same tidal forces creating surface volcanism?

As far as we can tell, Io has no intrinsic magnetic field produced by a dynamo, meaning the core isn’t convecting for whatever reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_conflicts_with_minor_planets
bros who the fuck thought naming asteroids was a good idea

>>12056232
IIRC the gravity is so low you can jump off the cliff and fall and fall and fall, and land safely
>>12056238
If I die and god is real, I hope it lets me peruse the universe and look into the internal mechanisms of all these bodies. I could spend an eternity exploring the terrestrial bodies of star systems

>>12056238
in areas affected by volcanic eruptions (ie falling ash) the atmospheric pressure can raise to 30 bar apparently

>>12056249
>IIRC the gravity is so low you can jump off the cliff and fall and fall and fall, and land safely
no, since there is no atmosphere you'd keep accelerating until you hit the ground at over a hundred miles per hour and probably die

>>12056206
>part of their electrical system popped a couple fuses. They replaced them. LOL, no need to find out why, just replace em
My understanding is that the hyrdo issue was separate from the popped fuses, but I only skimmed the article. Either way, the fuses were running the fairing climate control, so it's not super reckless to just fix the system and move on.

>>12056219
Cronch

But the ULA launch team halted the countdown to give technicians time to troubleshoot an issue with a nose cone heater. Ground crews replaced two blown fuses associated with the heater to fix that problem.

But engineers studying a separate snag with a “critical ground pneumatics control system” could not resolve the problem in time to resume the Delta 4’s countdown, fuel the rocket and proceed with the launch before the closure of Thursday’s roughly four-hour launch window.

ULA said the team needs additional time to evaluate and resolve the issue with the pneumatics system. After initially considering a launch attempt Friday, ULA said later Thursday that the mission would be delayed until Saturday.

There is an 80 percent chance of good weather for launch of the Delta 4-Heavy rocket Saturday at 2:04 a.m. EDT (0604 GMT), according to the U.S. Space Force’s 45th Weather Squadron at Cape Canaveral.

“Additional time is needed for the team to validate the appropriate path forward with the ground pneumatics control system,” ULA said in a statement.

>>12054231
I feel so dumb for not thinking of this question earlier

If you get the ability to put big things in space, can't you build an oversized reflector screen and if it fails to deploy all the way, you're fine?

>>12056254
Yeah I just did the calculation. Your final velocity would be about 60 m/s, or the equivalent of falling about 160 m here on Earth (assuming both my calculations were correct?) I just remember hearing trivia about SOME place in our solar system where you could safely cliff dive

>>12056299
>>12056254
>Given Miranda's low gravity, it would take about 12 minutes to fall from the top, reaching the bottom at the speed of about 200 km/h. Even so, the fall might be survivable given proper airbag protection.[5]

>>12056299
Literally use rocket boots to decelerate

Free climbing on Miranda when bros, I gotta scale down that 20km cliff soon

rocket boot jumping into uranus from the surface of miranda when?

>>12056305
Holy fuck... yeah you’d be dead. I mean airbags can TECHNICALLY save you when you’re going 125 mph. But it isn’t something you’re going to easily walk off.

>that dog that comes running up and tries to jump all over you and lick your face

>>12056255
Not super reckless for sure, but any time a fuse blows, you need to find out why. Especially on a heating system... in Florida... in the summer. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it was intentional.
Weather reports are showing poor chances for a SpaceX launch Sunday (SX already said they are pushing their first launch back to Sunday). ULA said it will take time for their people to figure out the hydraulic issues, and quickly decided that everything will be good on Saturday (with an 80% chance of good weather).

It really feels like ULA did this intentionally to stick it to SpaceX. There is so little information on what went wrong yet they are quick to decide on a Saturday launch, right before storms hit, putting a hold on back to back SpaceX launches. I could be on /x/ tier with conspiracy theories here, but its way too convenient how the timeline works.

>>12056187
What froyo flavor is it today?

>>12056110
As long as theres no political upheaval or dumb civil war crap that a small minority want, yeah itll be fucking awesome. As long as everything holds together, 2020 will be the beginning of "the future" for real this time.

>>12056348
You’re delusional. America will be destroyed in an apocalyptic civil war and the future will be a dystopian hellscape

>>12056350
wtf i love the future now!

>>12056350
well hopefully operation whitey on mars is a go go by then

>>12056350
I cant even tell if you're parodying /pol/ schizos or not.

>>12056359
there's a significantly non-zero chance that the near future is a woke corporate dystopia run by HR managers

>>12056049
No I mean efficiency literally doesn't matter, only cost matters. Propellant costs are effectively nothing compared to refurbishment costs.

LSST coming online fucking WHEN bros

>>12056363
Only if the machine isn't dead by the time we gain the capability to establish permanent human presence elsewhere in the system. They'll take advantage of that and enact what you're talking about, if the tech never develops then it's just prison-earth instead.

>>12056085
Ignore that other guy.
Gasses under pressure can only accelerate themselves up to the speed at which pressure waves can propagate through those gasses (in a high pressure hot gas like in a rocket, this is over a kilometer per second.
The gasses are still pressurized, but they literally cannot accelerate forwards any faster. All of the pressure the gas exerts is perpendicular to the direction of the jet.
By placing a converging nozzle (throat) section into your nozzle, the pressure and temperature spike and allow the gasses to reach maximum velocity in a much shorter distance.
By placing a diverging nozzle section beyond the throat section, the gasses can expand perpendicular to the direction of flow, and slam into the wall. The exhaust gasses can now convert 100% of their random kinetic energy (heat and pressure) into organized kinetic energy (perfectly ordered flow at maximum velocity) given an infinitely long nozzle. However, we just extract 99% of that energy or so, because going after the remaining little bits of waste add more mass than they return in thrust efficiency.

So basically, rocket nozzles work like how a sail on a boat allows the boat to sail faster than the wind.

>>12056401
based

>>12056126
For the nozzle to be effective you'd need to choke the flow first, which would increase the exhaust pressure and thus decrease the peak pressure difference between inside the pistons and in the exhaust, reducing the power of the piston engine. Since piston engines are vastly more efficient than gas jet engines, you'd only be losing performance.

>>12056115
>strong enough to keep the Moon’s core molten and give it a powerful magnetic field, which protected an atmosphere potentially even thicker than the Earth’s current one
Whoah whoah whoah back up here. The moon had an atmosphere?

>>12056299
>I just remember hearing trivia about SOME place in our solar system where you could safely cliff dive
It would need to be Titan. 1/6th Earth gravity and >2 times the atmosphric surface density equals 1/12th the terminal velocity, which would be about 4.5 m/s or 16 km/h. That's slower than a fast run, so if you want to feel what it'd be like to fall 5000 feet on Titan you literally just need to go run into a wall. Alternatively, jump off of something one meter tall.

>>12056428
Titan is the most interesting place in the solar system, right next to Earth (and maybe Mars I guess)

>>12056428
The economy of Titan will be based around motion capture sessions for superhero movies, shonen anime, and video games.

>>12056426
Yeah, for like a few million years, when everything in the solar system was still fresh and brapping out gasses from molten rock surfaces like crazy.

>>12056328
People have fallen into nets safely at terminal velocity, so that might be possible.

>>12056442
Oh, damn. That would've been cool as shit if it had an atmosphere while Earth had life.

>>12056363
Companies are not in-and-of themselves woke, their retarded marketers tell them that based on (((social media))) wokeness seems to be in-vogue, and so they pretend to be woke hoping that woketards consoom more product.
In reality, Shitter, Fagbook, etc represent barely 2% of the population in terms of vocal users, the rest of society is increasingly fed up with woke brainlets, which is why it seems like so many woke companies end up taking major financial losses.
Their corporate structures also move slower than glaciers, it's probably only just now starting to reach the ears of highly insulated CEOs that the "woke" strategy isn't working out as well as they'd hoped.

>>12055660
is this your original image?
basically, what's the sauce

>>12056445
Oh yeah good point
>>12056448
Jesus... I would LOVE to have seen a Moon with an atmosphere, or even a molten moon soon after it accreted (or rings around Earth before the Moon formed for that matter). Also keep in mind the Moon was WAY closer back in those good ol’ Hadean eon so it would have looked big as fuck, and as menacing as the moon from Majora’s Mask

>>12055647
>each shoe is an RD-180

Space Empire when?

>>12055660
why the fuck doesnt alpaca have matching solar panels

>>12056193
Uhra nus

>>12056472
>two old enemies bond over a shared love for SLS

>>12055660
ALPACA is kind of neat but they really should figure out a way to do it without the drop tanks. If they're using orbital assembly to attach and re-attach tanks every time they ought to just assemble a bigger lander that doesn't need to ditch it's tanks every time.

>>12056459
yep, this is my oc right here

>>12056483
do you want to be credited in any way when I upload this

>>12055799
In 2013 the Dreamchaser prototype had a landing gear malfunction and skidded across the runway. Everything remained intact, and all systems were still running, but less than a year later NASA went with Boeing. This was mostly due to the "input" of one NASA Administrator; William Gerstenmaier. He changed the scoring criteria after the panel of procurement experts placed Boeing at the bottom. He even got the government accountability office to deny the challenge that SNC filed. Now he works for SpaceX as a consultant.

>>12054249
Have immortality first.

whats going on with these spots

>>12056485
eh, it's fine. /sfg/ anon or even a 4chan will do

>>12056494
>you can't have a generation ship if you only have one generation
Bold strategy, I like it.

>>12056497
my money says Saturn

>>12056473
Perspective, probably. Although not gonna lie, even in the original original image I used, it looks screwy.

>>12056497
me

>>12056503
good take

>>12056499
fuck it then
I was thinking about posting it to NSF in the Dynetics Lander thread
>>12056513
that or one of the larger rocks has enough mass to partially clear its orbit

bro

wheeeee

>>12056520
The fuck is up with that “S” power slide at the end? Is that what happens when you escape a gravity well and get ejected into an orbit around the Sun or something?

>>12056530
yeah, it looks super weird in the reference frame of the object

>>12056519
lol, it'd get nuked there. Those guys are absolutely autistic about tidying their threads. It'd probably get more love on reddit but I'm a bit hesitant about attracting fucking ledditors to /sfg/

fuck your orbits bro

TIRANGLE GANG

>>12056530
>>12056536
I'm pretty sure the turning point was right at Earth Sun L1.

>>12056193
We can shorten it to Anus

>>12056545
Yeah that makes more sense. That second gif is really good at showing it. I’m not too familiar with orbital mechanics but it’s interesting to see how an object has such a drastic change in its trajectory due to a lagrange point

>>12056530
The animation is from the relative frame of reference of the earth, meaning the camera rotates as it views the earth at the same angle along its path around the sun. Combine that with 3-body dynamics (earth, sun, moon not as important for that s shape), and you get funky trajectories like this.

how the fuck did they get proper orbital elements for asteroids before having computers to run simulations on

>>12056561
Lagrange points are solutions to a pair of equations, where gravity balances. Pass through one, and the direction of the net gravity vector instantly reverses from Earthward to Sunward. It looks weird as shit in a 2D Earth centric frame.

Woah, the fireworks display after the RNC is pretty cool lol. Trump mentioned space in his closing speech, glad he doesn't make it too big an issue so Biden can safely continue the programs if he wins.

>>12056598
Yeah he did a good job; mentioned putting the first woman on the Moon and fostering America’s space presence. Those TRUMP 2020 fireworks were kino

>>12054266
The revolt happens when you arrive and find a much faster ship build three generations later is already there and it only took 1/10th of the time to get there and your entire life was pointless.

>>12056613
Then it's time for a colony drop.

>>12056613
People have actually done the math on that. As soon as you're capable of building a ship that coasts between the stars at 0.15c it no longer makes sense to wait because anything above 0.2c will have a painfully low payload barring FTL... and if someone beats your ship there by cracking FTL and offers you a ride home, that'd be fine too.

Rocket lab launch tomorrow the 29th! 11pm EST

Delta 4 launching at 2 AM the same day.

What's up with SpaceX, both SAOCOM and Starlink up soon, plus hop. Busy weekend

>>12056689
*drops wrong battery pack again*

>>12056672
FTL will happen centuries from now but it’ll happen

>>12056794
Nah, the great awakening is nearly upon us. The demigods will rise, work miracles, wage war among themselves, and then scatter into the stars.

F

how the fuck did elon make his stupid fucking hobby rocket piece of shit so reliable what the fuck why isnt it exploding every launch

>>12056845
get off the board boeing; don't you have some code to rewrite?

>>12056817
RIP Based skylab bro,
>tfw it's going to take 45-50 years until we have modules and vehicles larger than skylab

>>12056472
the time is now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJEBgjQIekE

>>12056865
Nah bro, the second a starship makes it to orbit (even just a test launch) we will have surpassed skylab and the ISS. The 9m starship has a fuckhuge load of space in it

>>12056884
That will still have been over 40 years since Skylab deorbited.

>>12056884
I can't wait to see the future of spacestation that Starship and New Glenn will be able to make
Too bad ESA and Russia won't be able to make any future contributions that are as impressive lmao

>>12056887
Oooooh oh I see what you’re saying. Yeah. I mean we still have the ISS, and will have it for a while. But it’s ugly AF and smells like feet

The Starship design architecture is so beautiful bros.

No more leaving behind essential components of your ship every flight, no more dinky little specialized landers, no more anemic payloads
Not to mention the manufacturability of the vessel, which has never even been a design concern before

It's going to completely transform the space industry

>>12056906
Plus it's going to be synthwave as fuck.
>launches from a subtropical beach or offshore platform
>a giant black (tiles) and silver tower roaring into the sky on a lance of blue flame during the day or purple flame at night

I’ve heard it claimed that things in black holes can’t have causal effects on things outside of black holes, but obviously the mass contained within the black hole’s event horizon has a gravitational influence on the outside, so this is wrong, yes?

>>12057008
it's impossible to be inside a black hole, there is no inside

>>12057010
Black holes are just regions in which the escape velocity is higher than light speed. How can there be no “outside”?

>>12055902
>>12055886
Since in some 100m years the rings are going to fall into the planet anyway, should we harvest them as ez pz ice and water source? What else can we do with them?

>>12057010
Black holes are just regions in which the escape velocity is higher than light speed. How can there be no “inside”?

>>12057010
You can go past the event horizon though, which I would consider “inside” the black hole. I agree with >>12057016
It makes even more since the bigger the black hole is. Supermassive black holes are weird and you can go through the event horizon without getting all spaghettified. As for the actual center, I have no clue what happens there. All your atoms will basically be crunched into a single 1D point in spacetime (or timespace?) I suppose

>>12057019
>It makes even more since the bigger the black hole is.
Tbh I have no clue why the fuck I typed that out. I think I meant to say
>It’s even more interesting the bigger your black hole is.

>>12056206
RHETORIC OVER RESULTS

>Neuralink this month & Tesla next month, SpaceX probably October. We will have made a lot of progress by then. Might have a prototype booster hop done by then.
>https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1299239536535375872
>Super Heavy hop by October
The absolute madman

>>12057019
>All your atoms will basically be crunched into a single 1D point in spacetime (or timespace?) I suppose

Pauli exclusion principle says this isn’t possible.

>>12057083
>SUPER
>HEAVY
>BY
>OCTOBER
jesus Elon
>>12057109
that only applies to uhhhh
bosons? fermions? shit dude I dunno, but at a certain point the elementary particles find it easier to convert to the other one than to follow the pauli exclusion principle

>>12057083
if they have a superheavy booster hop and a 20 klick flight done by october (even if it crash lands), that'd be insane. The craziest thing is I think a booster hop is actually viable considering superheavy will only require a couple raptors to hop apparently.

>>12057119
a super heavy flight and a 20 km Starship flight means they're go for orbit, doesn't it?

>>12057124
Probably not, I assume they'd want to do multiple 20 klick hops to get the landing rate of success up to a reasonable amount before an orbital flight. And they would definitely need to do at least one high altitude super heavy flight as well, but I do think we're on a timeline where orbit by Q2 2021 is very possible.

>>12057083
When Musk says
>might have
it‘s probably time to temper your expectations.
Would a superheavy prototype even have any more engines for a hop than starship SNs?
Probably not that many more, right?

>>12057228
superheavy hop is a lot easier then you'd think.

>>12057245
Its different only in nose cone. And legs probably.

>>12057245
They're gonna have to build one first.

>>12057259
Which won't be too hard considering they're essentially a longer version of the starship tank.

>>12057286
>just make it longer lolololol
it's not that easy in rocketry
they'll probably need to upgrade from 4mm to 5mm steel

>>12057258
Thrust puck and plumbing is going to be completely different which is the main issue to solve for super heavy construction.
I imagine casting titanium grid fins of this size is also going to be interesting considering the F9 ones were already pushing boundaries. But I guess that‘s solvable.
My issue with a Super Heavy test hop is how representative it would be. The main challenge is the many engines, yet a test hop can‘t actually utilize many engines or it would be yeeted all the way to god knows where.

>>12057428
last september Elon said steel grid fins, welded together in a field in Texas

>>12057446
Guess those are going to get replaced a lot.

>>12057451
no, steel is better than titanium for this purpose
titanium is only lighter

>>12056689
The two falcon9 launches have been delayed because the delta heavy rocket is on its launch pad and had a scrub yesterday. Because it's a top secret mission, no one can launch in the area until they fix it. Ula is saying Saturday for it's launch retry.

Remember to exercise and eat healthy. Flex on degenerates by being superior.

hop this weekend?

>>12057697
We can only hop(e)

>>12057259
>Superheavy might happen, but SLS is there, it's on the test stand

>>12057745
>SuperFalcon 3000 might happen, but the SLS is real, it’s on the test stand.

>>12057325
FUCK URF THUNDERF00T

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/nasa-just-announced-in-a-blog-post-that-sls-will-cost-30-more/?utm_brand=arstechnica&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social

>surprised_pickachu_face.jpg

>>12057766
I just cannot believe it!

>>12057766
>"It is still too early to predict the full impact of COVID-19."
Translation: "Bend over and spread that wallet, congress".

>>12057766

>>12057785
>Spacex during Covid
>launches 100s of satellite into orbit
>does the first commercial launch of two astronauts in history
>makes great strides towards building the most versatile and readily reusable rocket in history
>NASA
>Is building a rocket (maybe)
>???
>begs guberment for gibs

>>12057766
Isn't this 30% more than the previous time SLS cost 30% more than it's original estimate? I want to see this thing fly, but Jesus Christ I hate how terrible it's managed.

>In her update, Lueders said she was "confident" that a November 2021 launch date for the rocket is achievable
Like in November 2020? Or June 2020? 2019? 2017? 2014?

>However, she cited a few caveats to this. For one, she said, "It is still too early to predict the full impact of COVID-19."
Excuses. NASA has thousands of engineers, it should be easy to find some who don't have the coof and are willing to live in quarantine to make this rocket fly.

>>12057796
>Isn't this 30% more than the previous time SLS cost 30% more than it's original estimate?
Yes.

>how terrible it's managed
That's cost plus for you. Government jobs.

>>12057796
You know, I bet if you cut SLS into little bits and auctioned each nut and bolt off charity-auction-style, where every bidder tried to give the absolute most for each item/lot, you still wouldn't gather close to the total amount spent building this goddamned thing so far.

>>12057789
>Boeing
>almost destroyed crew capsule on re entry.

>>12057806
>That's cost plus for you.
A grave sin upon good management.

>>12057785
More like: We should cut out commercial space funding to companies like SpaceX to save money.

>>12057880
I'm sure that would buy two nuts and maybe half a bolt for a janitor mop on the Artemis program.

>>12057886
Patriotic money well spent.

>https://www.exploremars.org/summit/agenda/

Lot of space industry speaking this coming monday/31st. Musk included.

>be me last year
>visit Kennedy Space Center in Florida for 50th anniversary of Apollo 11
>Go to Saturn V building
>aweinspiring.jpg
>See an old man standing by himself next to a sign
>”Talk to an Apollo Engineer!”
>This old man worked on the 2nd stage He tanks for the Saturn V
>He worked with Von Braun
>Has probably forgotten more about rocketry than most people will ever learn
>I wanted to talk with him about Saturn V and Apollo for hours
>Kept bringing up the SLS for some reason
>NASA has this American hero shilling for their shitty Saturn knockoff
Bureaucrats were a mistake

>>12057995
to be fair, we've undergone a total paradigm shift in how the space industry works. You can't be suprised that the guys who lived through and worked on apollo aren't able to see how that model has failed us.

>>12057766
what.

>>12057083
with the high bay almost done, is it possible that they start the first super heavy after sn9?

>>12058011
lmao

>>12058027
Maybe but super heavy is a simpler starship, they could just focus on the later a little more.

>NASA annual budget $22.6B
>SLS total program cost $20.3B
How long until the SLS program costs more than what NASA gets in a year?

>>12058053
JWST alone costs 10 Billion.

>>12058057
At least JWST has new technologies and high risk that justifies the amount of money thrown at it. The only thing new to SLS are the propellant tanks and avionics, something that shouldn't take nearly a decade and billions of dollars to make.

>Superheavy stacking soon
>Two active Staships
>SN8 is stacked and (mostly) ready
>SN7.1 is almost done

Wtf I though Starship wasn't real? Seriously though when does OldSpace take is seriously?

>>12058072
>Seriously though when does OldSpace take is seriously?
When Musk flips them the bird on livestream from LEO aboard a Starship.

>>12058072
Starship will need to do that dear moon mission before they care lmao
They could literally launch a dummy test starship into orbit, q1 next year, and they'd probably find shit to complain about

>>12058072
>Seriously though when does OldSpace take is seriously?
Falcon Heavy is flying, and oldspace doesn't take it seriously either. Starship will have to do something in space that oldspace has never done before. Such as send people beyond the sphere of influence of Earth and back.

Starship is better at: pricing and launch frequency. SLS in fairing volume and payload capacity without refueling. SLS is a far simpler vehicle, without reuse hardware and orbital refueling capability. RS-25's work. They are proved to work with humans on board. Raptors are very uncertain. Elon just tweeted that the engine didn't explode during testing. And using an unproved engine, with a lot of unproven technologies such as refueling, launching humans and vital resources on SLS sounds like a far greater idea. If it's vital for crews the cost shouldn't matter.

We should be using nuclear propulsion for 100% of our space exploration needs, from launch, to orbit, and beyond. Prove me wrong (you can't).

>>12058003
>You can't be suprised that the guys who lived through and worked on apollo aren't able to see how that model has failed us.
Buzz Aldrin has the right attitude.
>shit I don't care who builds the rocket, just get us to Mars

>>12058132
Jim, you can stop. You're among friends here.

>>12058097

>>12058139
It makes no sense with something like Starship. Unless you want to go to the outer planets, it's not needed for mars. Also good luck flying NTR with retarded environmental regulations.

>>12058139
>Blocks your path

>>12058144
Let's be very honest again. We don't have a commercially available heavy lift vehicle. Starship may someday come about. It's on the drawing board right now. SLS is real. You've seen it down at Michoud. We're building the core stage. We have all the engines done, ready to be put on the test stand at Stennis... I don't see any hardware for a Starship, except that he's going to take rolls of steel, and put them together and that becomes the Starship. It's not that easy in rocketry

>>12058139
Such craft will probably be only controlled by the government to reduce the chance of disasters. I don't just mean ecological ones either, an NTR rocket spilling its guts can trash space infrastructure too.

>>12058162
>NTR rocket
I'm a retard.

>>12058153
If they're in international waters just sink them and say pirates did it.

>>12058149
>It makes no sense with something like Starship
Starship only makes sense because we've been using chemical rockets for so long. If we'd been using nuclear from the beginning we would have high-payload ssto's like pic related.

>it's hydromeme
Methane and other fuels can be swapped in for nuclear rockets as needed

>>12058149
>>12058153
fuck hippies

>>12058153
Between this and the rednecks at the DM-2 splashdown, could attempts be made to sabotage controversial sea launches?

>>12058190
Elon should hire PMC.

>>12058190
>DM-2 splashdown
At least those guys backed off when told to, Greenpeacefags would stubbornly make you arrest them.
Anyone actively trying to prevent launches by sea should be shot.

>>12058177
Bro I love nuclear rockets like you but honestly they're super impractical given how complex they are and the red tape that comes with them. Elon and company were smart enough to realize that they weren't worth the hassle and they moved on.

>>12058204
imagine a helicopter with a solid booster

>>12058210
Anon, we could have covered the entire solar system by now if we had been using nuclear from the beginning. Humanity is too risk-averse and apathetic.

>>12058190

>>12058043
Elon says they only need two engines for the first hop.

>>12058210
>>12058218
Nuclear reactors only make sense as a power source for propellantless woo woo magic. They are the only way to getmore power than an RTG for missions out past Mars.

>>12058223
>propellantless woo woo magic
Anon, I...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSBHPVoeu0E

Stop being a chemicuck and take the nuke pill

>>12058218
We haven't even had the capability to get to space a century ago, calm down, progress will happen.

>>12058229
NERVA is worse than Starship as a Mars colony rocket because nuclear reactors are a lot harder to make than Raptors.

>>12058223
Is it gonna powerslide, or could the two engines be set up symmetrically? I don't know what the current SH engine arrangement is.

What if it crashed?

>>12058238
Then SpaceX would have folded and we'd be in the darkest timeline.

>>12058238
Idk but I doubt he would have given up.

>>12058241
This, that timeline ends with the final human choking on dust walking the remains of prison-Earth and just giving up, ending the lineage of mankind without ever having ventured outwards.

>>12058233
So? We're not getting beyond Mars to the Outer Planets without something better than nuclear, and transfer times to Mars with chemical are absolutely PATHETIC as well.

Nuclear-thermal is the only practical solution we have right now. Not fusion, not NEP, not magnetic sails, etc. We've had it for half-a-century and refuse to capitalize on it.

>>12058257
IMO, NTR safety would have to be improved on before it becomes more widespread. Stuff like; less reliance on weapons-grade materials, shorter half-life fuel, and less radiation output.

>>12058257
>and transfer times to Mars with chemical are absolutely PATHETIC as well.

No one would use higher isp for faster transits, they’d use it for higher payload

>>12058257
I don't know if you're baiting but NTR can only shave a month or two off of the currently planned "3 Month Transit" Elon talks about. Also 99% of NTR studies saw it using a 6-9 month transit but boosting a large payload as >>12058276 said

>>12058265
>shorter half-life fuel, and less radiation output.

Logically incompatible. The shorter the half-life of a molecule, the more radioactive it is.

>>12058281
I should've been more specific. I meant shorter half-life and less DEADLY radiation. For example, Tritium has a relatively short half-life and only puts out beta radiation. Not to say that Tritium NTRs should be used, but maybe there's a fissile fuel out there that meets the above requirements.

>>12055929
In a few decades it will be under water anyway.

>>12058162
Look at the soviet reactors on RORSATS fucking up by leaking NaK. It's gonna be an evolution, BWXT is working on one for DARPA by 2025, we don't NEED NTR but it would be great.

>>12058265
They're using Low enriched uranium that isn't subject to so much red tape. Also they are also using pellet fuel to prevent meltdowns I think. Same tech they're looking into for portable nuclear reactors for military units, if bombed it's not a massive environmental threat.

>On July 1, 2020, Tesla reached a market capitalization of US$206 billion, surpassing Toyota to become the world's most valuable automaker by market capitalization.

How.

>>12056350
WHO CARES

>>12057019
>As for the actual center, I have no clue what happens there.
You're not the only one bro

>>12058329
Overvalued stock.
Tesla is on a hypetrain, and sometime in the future other carbrands will catch up with decent electric cars and then the bubble will burst.
Sell your stock before it burst.

>>12058329
Everyone thinking they're buying the future.

>>12056193

Caelus, the Roman name for the deity the planet is named after.

Literally only acceptable option.

>>12056238
>As far as we can tell, Io has no intrinsic magnetic field produced by a dynamo, meaning the core isn’t convecting for whatever reason.
Earth's dynamo exists because of the fact that the core is cooling and allowing more iron to crystallize out of the liquid inner core. When the dense iron crystallizes it causes the surrounding magma to become less dense (basically local concentration of iron goes down, silicates and sulfides goes up). This lower density magma is being produced literally at the bottom of the magma column, and it's buoyant, so it rises.
This is why Earth's magnetosphere is a transient thing; it didn't even start up until something like two billion years after Earth formed, because before then it was too hot. In a few billion more years the core will have cooled enough that this process won't be able to continue any more, and Earth's magnetosphere will be gone.

>>12058422
What abourt Urrethra?

>>12056572
They only knew about like a dozen of them, and they were big enough to track for a long enough time to lay out a decently accurate orbit.

>>12058011
>surprised PICA-chu

>>12058426
>In a few billion more years the core will have cooled enough that this process won't be able to continue any more, and Earth's magnetosphere will be gone.
Will that be before or after the sun boils the oceans?

>>12056845
RESULTS
OVER
RHETORIC

Will Falcon heavy ever be launched again?

>>12058097
>Starship returns Hubble to the Smithsonian as was originally planned with Shuttle

>>12057008
>but obviously the mass contained within the black hole’s event horizon has a gravitational influence on the outside
Wrong actually, the warping of spacetime around the black hole is what has the mass-energy necessary to warp space time around the black hole. That is to say, the energy of the warped spacetime itself is enough to achieve an escape velocity greater than light speed. The mass of the 'real' matter and energy that warped spacetime in the first place is 'encoded' into the black hole as the charge, momentum, and spin of the black hole, but the black hole itself is basically just a construct of warped spacetime, there's no gravitational influence 'reaching' out of the black hole's 'interior'.

>>12058445
Yeah, it's scheduled to launch in a few weeks, if I remember correctly. Some Air Force satellite.

>>12058445
It won the cargo resupply contract for the Gateway and will be launching some of the station modules.

>>12058454
nice

>>12058454
>Some Air Force satellite.
They need a whole Heavy for that? What is it, a fucking building?

>>12058442
Earth will be rendered traditionally uninhabitable in less than 1 billion years due to increasing solar radiation, so the magnetosphere’s lifespan is irrelevant if it’s supposed to last longer than that.

>>12058466
Geostationary.