/sci/ - Science & Math

Because there is too much money and glory in creating or exacerbating artificial problems when you have no idea how to even start handling the real ones.

>>12020962
The communist traitors in the government haven't been hung yet.

>What is the true reason things don't go back to normal?
The reason is that
-introduction of tracing apps
-immunity passports
-being able to reintroduce house arrests anywhere when needed
-forced muzzles
-travel ban
-destruction of small businesses and thriving of larger corporations
-destruction of education
-no medical help using covid as an excuse
-being able to further censor anyone undesirable
are all very important goals.

>>12020962
fake pic, those deaths don't add up to 5800

>>12021027
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden

>>12020962
(((big pharma))) won't allow it

>>12020962
Swedes still follow the guidelines even thought the government didn't force them to and that is among the worst results in the world per capita. The number just seem low because the whole country has the population of a major city. The low population density must also help.

>>12020962
Swedes reportedly still follow the guidelines even though the government didn't force them to and that is among the worst results in the world per capita. The numbers just seem low because the whole country has the population of a major city. The low population density must also help.

>>12020962
>What is the true reason things don't go back to normal?
we are ruled by fearful women who prefer safety

>>12020962
The reality follows the prediction until mid april. That's pretty good for an outbreak of a completely unknown virus.

>>12020962
Gov'ts bought the chinese bioweapon meme and shit the pants, or it was really a bioweapon that ended up being a meme, but anyways they're in full damage control mode now trying to make it look like shitting the pants was the correct course of action.

>>12020962
>wow wtf, how come the collapsing regimes who're all afraid of a popular uprising against the second depression, french revolution 2.0 if you will, implemented levels of dissent suppression never seen before with the help of technology and mass behavior manipulation? how did this happen???

>>12020962

Have you ever seen pictures of Swedes in Sweden? You don't need to try very hard to convince them to stay away from each other.

Things didn't go back to normal in the US because how you personally responded to the virus became a political statement. When the libs decided to be pro <doing something about it> by nature the cons had to be anti <doing something about it>. It's as simple as that, americans treat running their nation like a sports match.

>>12021149
Lockdowns would be justified only if Sweden did worse than every country in the world and worse by a significant margin, like order of magnitude worse. Meanwhile it isn't even first and the result will be a small dip on yearly death rate (at worst).

>>12021408
It's not that simple. It could phrase it as pro-communist movement vs anti-communist. The same thing happens with climate change; no one doubts it exists but the communists have phrased it to be this world ending doomsday event, similar to what they're doing with coronavirus. Except with coronavirus we're giving them full power to actually cause a lot of harm so a few people don't have to die.

>>12020962
Death/1M pop in Sweden is 573, even worse then the US with 525 so far. Also Sweden is not "back to normal". Corona restrictions there are now harder then in most other nations.
Now Europe is at the beginning of a second wave and Sweden is no exception.

>>12021509
Which basically shows that in every country reaction to corona was political and not epidemiological. Even in parts of USA where government knowingly increased deaths (like New York or New Jersey).

>>12020962
>what is a worst-case prediction
99% of the time that you spend lying down in traffic you'll be perfectly fine.

>>12021418
>Lockdowns would be justified only if Sweden did worse than every country in the world and worse by a significant margin
But that is the case compared to their neighbors. What's the point in comparing Sweden to the likes of the UK and USA when those countries have very different social norms that allow the virus to spread easily compared to Sweden?

>>12021571
>in the worst case sun can destroy all life above the ground
>so let's ban cities and dig in

>>12021186
no it doesn't.

>>12021186
If I'll predict that the tide will become a tsunami which will drown everything, my prediction will be true for a brief time.

>>12020962
>being ruled by fear and incompetence
OP, this *IS* normal...

>>12021652
but a year ago, we were ruled by fear and incompetence while going out to eat without a mask.

>What is the true reason things don't go back to normal?
No mass demonstrations at least ten times bigger than this.

>>12020962
He resigned.

>>12021036
yes, that's where I got the 5800 too.

the pic in >>12020962 doesn't add up to 5800
it's a lying fake pic

>>12020962
Election isn’t over yet. Once December rolls around all this COVID stuff is going to get memory holed

>>12021728
>The World election
What a coincidence that the rest of the world has elections around the same time as the USA.

>>12021610
This is correct, though.

>>12021731
>too subtle
he won't detect the sarcasm

>>12021746
Unfortunately, many people aren't being sarcastic when they blame the American election.

>>12021710
Why do you think so? The line is maybe 100 days long, on average 58 a day. Seems about right.

>>12020976
Hanged, retard.

>>12020962
This is fake. My university would never make a false prediction.

>>12021149
Good job failing to comprehend the graph, you absolutely retarded fucking hysterical cunt.

>>12021418
This.
The lockdowns are about something else entirely. I am absolutely horrified by the shear number of total morons that are buying into this nonsense.

>>12021608
Learn what "orders of magnitude" means, you drooling moron.

>>12021608
>What's the point in comparing Sweden to the likes of the UK and USA when those countries have very different social norms that allow the virus to spread easily compared to Sweden?
They killed a bunch of people and didn't even save their economy.

>>12021571
Ya how about 1% of the time?
Jesus fucking god. Nice job splicing an absolute lie with an analogy to get your lying point across.

>>12021710
Do you know how to integrate? Integration is calculus. Calculus sounds complicated but in reality literal retards understand it. You are even stupider than said retards.

>>12022037
OMG 500 deaths
SO SCARY PWEEZE GOVEMENT POTEC MEEEEEEEEEE

>>12022075
cut yourself with that edge, etc....

>>12022075
>When you don't know how to read a graph

>>12020997
It's the oligarch's smash and grab. They are spiritual lumpen

>predicting fat tailed events

why did this go wrong? durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>>12022192
oh really now? so do you think that the measures taken according to these projections were stupid as well? would you say that it was all just basic alarmism?

>>12020962
>dont record who dies from virus
>no one dies from virus
woah

>>12022198
Do I need a prediction to tell me about the possibility of war? I'm still going to avoid it through all means possible obviously

>would you say that it was all just basic alarmism?

The predictions, absolutely. The measures were just sensibility (mostly, I disagree with shutdown though, but pro masks)

>>12021608
10x more deaths than its neighbors is an order of magnitude worse. How are you defining an order of magnitude?

>>12022211
Meant for >>12022028

>>12021608
>comparing Sweden to the likes of the UK and USA when those countries have very different social norm

PROVE IT
(pro tip: you can't)

>>12022210
What sensibility mate? The graph posted up there clearly proves that no measures were actually required. But of course the confusion comes from the fact that you don't actually have a way to quantify freedom nor do you even value it, which is why you think that all freedoms need to be restricted for something so minor and irrelevant. To you it's sensible to yield them once in a while so a handful more boomers get to live. Why don't we go into full-blown quarantine every winter to prevent flu deaths while we're at it if freedom is of such low value to you? You don't want to be the evil unsensible tinfoil schizo who opposes such periodic quarantines now do you?

>>12022211
5x as many as germany is not "orders of magnitude".
And btw: 5 times virtually nothing is still VIRTUALLY NOTHING
fucking fascist shill

>>12020962
Ferguson is such a hack, he should be stripped from his academic titles or at least fired.

>>12022236
He quit a few months ago.

>>12021669
No, you were ruled by a slightly lesser degree of fear that didn't seem mortal. Meanwhile, people who DO experience the elevated level of fear more often DID stay home, for fear of dying by going out to eat. As an additional note, for some cultures ruled by slightly more rational types of fear, they did wear masks, even, yes, while going out to eat.

For the first time in human history, everyones fears are aligned.

>>12022037
500 in 1,000,000
I wish I could get those kind of odds PLAYING THE LOTTERY.
Oh wait, even if I did get those odds I STILL WOULDN"T PLAY

I get the same emotional response from reading your shit that I get from watching a bunch of down syndrome teenagers flinging their shit at eachother - a mixture of absolute disgust, terror, pity, and a tiny amount of amusement/fascination.

>>12022233
Why do you keep putting orders of magnitude in quotes? It wasn't pluralized here >>12021418. Norway, Denmark, and Finland have death rates when averaged out that are 10x less than Sweden's, that's an order of magnitude. Germany is not a neighbor to Sweden.

>>12022253
>I also don't know how to read a graph

>>12022258
>Germany is not a neighbor to Sweden.
>Hey guys let's all split hairs now

SO COOL!

>>12022266
>american education

>>12022266
Split hairs? They share no border. To get to Germany requires going through Denmark, nor is Germany part of Scandinavia. They're not neighbors.

I thought /sci/ was supposed to be the board for smart people

>>12022411
The ideal distribution of smart people over an online internet community should be calculated by the community itself, not any given administrative or software algorithm.

>>12020962
It's actually just a flu.
Don't get me wrong it's a bad one because no human body met it before, but give it a year it will just be another strain of flu.

>It literally was a nothingburger

>>12021408
>like a sports match

EXACTLY. Especially politics. Democrat and Republican are just titles made to distract people.

>>12022436
NOOOOOO
How will we sell vaccines and what will politicians be able to virtue signal / implement fascism based on?

>>12022465
How convenient:
-You can't protest because Covid.
-You'll get fined for not wearing shit mask.
-You have to get tested because someone you know got positive.
-You have to get a vaccine.

I thought people would revolt against the liberties being taken away from them. But no, they're just following the narrative.

>>12022465
If you're going to shitpost ironic perspectives, then you can at least complete the irony circuit and post something that might have seemed substantive.

68 replies and no one pointed out that this graph uses absolute number of cases to compare between two countries that differ by a factor of almost 7 in population and a factor of over 10 in population density?

Fucking hell you people are retarded.

>>12022474
Governments and big corporations just love adding layers of red tape / bureaucracy to everything they do because it increases their power. The more fine print you have to read through, the more hoops you have to jump through, the better it is for them. Covid is the perfect excuse for them to get just a little more bloated.

>>12022479
Who cares?
It's all a nothingburger after all.
People stopped dying from it, and that's all you really need to know.

>>12022479
Holy fuck it's not even comparing different countries. You are the retard. It is comparing projections to actual numbers. Seriously you need to just STAY HOME and put your fucking head in a plastic bag and breath your own fumes until you die.

>>12022485
>People stopped dying from it, and that's all you really need to know.
900 Americans died of covid today
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

>>12022502
And that's like your regular flu statistics.
Give it enough time to get into the general population, and it won't be a big deal.

>>12022502
>b-buh, buuuhhhh!!!
>can science really be a thing??!

>>12022502
24 people died from it in France yesterday, yet they have everyone wear a mask everywhere for fun.

>>12022512
"Just get everyone sick" is the dumbest, most mortal, /pol/ thing I've ever seen on this site.

>>12020976
If everything is communist, nothing is communist.

>>12022540
Well, people with sickness will die.
The tragedy.
People costing hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to keep alive.
The tragedy.

>>12022555
Double mortal.

>>12022579
I don't get it.
What I can say is, if you let the general population catch it, they'll be immune eventually.
Meanwhile, sick persons need to wear masks and protect themselves.
But we got the other way around where everyone needs to wears a mask.
Therefore this shit is gonna last 10 years for no reason.

>>12022621
No, disease can kill off entire populations. You don't get to assume human survival. That's kind of the problem; nobody wants to be the evolutionary statistic. "Dealing with the fears of a population" isn't "no reason." These things happen because people have to decide what risks they're willing to take. It was always risky, and now, because of evolution, it's riskier.

>>12022645
Covid can't do that.
It just kill 65+ people.
With other health problems.

>>12022653
Your beliefs about COVID, specifically, are irrelevant. This is about, first, what types of solutions we can feasibly entertain. "Haha let everyone die nature will fix it" is not a solution, it's the very problem statement. Then, we see if we can actually save people from the symptoms. Somewhat. The answer is somewhat. We don't have a full treatment. We don't know how the disease progresses. We're not sure it'll be the same for all the different strains that have emerged and are still emerging.

So now let's get back to your, individual, personal, beliefs, about Corona.

Do you think that catching two different strains at once, is healthy?

>>12022665
Dude, this shit stopped killing people 3 month ago.
Yet we're back to reported cases from peak epidemic in march.
What does it tell you?

>>12022411
No.
It''s a board for people addicted to triggering content and pictures.
It's no different from other 4chan boards like /pol, or from 85% of all successful boards w/ traffic internet-wide.
The site just happens to be named and have loose topical labels that relate to science and math.

>>12022679
>stopped killing people
No, it didn't. You're repeating a claim that's already been shown to be false. It's still killing people, and it's going to continue doing exactly that. It won't stop because you misattributed the cause while shitposting. There's no magic way to have it go away, just as there wasn't a way to make the flu go away every year. This is an actual problem, and if you don't understand why, that's not anyone else's problem.

>>12022699
But it did.
As the virus spread out into the general population, they fought against it and didn't transmit it anymore.
20 death a day in france is fucking nothing.
People dying are people with heavy sickness.

>>12020997
>-forced muzzles
why are americans so dumb? are you afraid you wont be able to bite people anymore or what?

>>12022712
No, it didn't. That's factually wrong. It's not even a measure of statistics; it's still killing people. Right now. Even today. Even as we speak. Even now, Corona is lethal. Do you think, Corona itself, is somehow not lethal?

What it sounds like you're trying to suggest, is that, once people started reacting intelligently to it, the rate of deaths, measured per statistics, went down. But, factually, people are still dying. Do you not see how it was the fact that people exercised intelligent reaction that was the key factor in slowing, but not stopping, the death rate?

>>12022732
Dude, it's measurable.
Yes it's still killing people.
Sick as fuck people.
And that's that.
Do you even know how much elders go out every year because of normal flu?
This is just the new flu.

>>12022748
It's not just the new flu, but that's not what I'm getting at.

You're lying, and trying to lie, and trying to justify that lie, and trying to get others to agree with you, because you don't want to acknowledge the measurements. You haven't looked into them, because I haven't looked into them, because neither of us cares how many people are actually dying. This is just debate, in principle, to anyone who will listen. Neither of us changes our habits or behaviors after this, neither of us goes on to advise congress on how to better handle pandemics, neither of us goes on to conduct numerous case studies in virology or any other science, to help better address the needs of the public.

What you're saying, is mortal. There's no other way for me to explain it. We could be debating economic policies, pandemic and other epidemiological response, or any number of things that don't relate to your personal emotions and credulity, but we aren't. You're trying to intuit at me so that I'll let your lie go. My personal problem with that is that it leads people to become more mortal, to denigrate the value of their own intelligence, to be superstitious and panicky. When, instead, we could all be learning how to not spread disease further across a population. I'm not going to side with ignorance, when there's an intelligent solution, that will, has, and is, saving lives.

>>12022465
>>12020976
>>12020997
>>12022474
>>12021111
>unironic schizos
>in MY /sci/
it's more likely than you think

>>12022748
show me the flu that has a 0.1-2% death rate
HARD MODE: not the 1918 pandemic influenza

>>12022786
Fuck you.
If more people get it that are not in danger of getting it, you lower chances of actual victims getting it.
Therefore masks are bad.

>>12022795
It's just the initial rate. Final one is gonna be way lower.

>>12022814
See: >>12022665
>Do you think that catching two different strains at once, is healthy?

>>12022822
Yes, it's gonna be puzzling when we need to sort through covid and regular flu.
But you know what? Nobody will be dying from it by then.

>>12022830
Well, if your word is all they have to go on, maybe the population of that time really won't be dying so quickly.

>>12022795
H7N9 bird flu has a death rate of 30%, and H5N1 about 60%, basically COVID-19 is nothing to worry about

>>12022545
Only pinkos deal in absolutes.

>>12022545
If everything was communist, nothing would exist

>>12022979
preach brother

>>12022786
>>12022732
>>12022699
>>12022665
>>12022645
Look at all this cope. This retard trying to pretend a virus that has a marginally higher mortality rate than the flu is a serious thread to civilization....
I am literally shocked beyond belief at the number of retards we have running around in this society. I mean, I knew there were a lot of them but this "super scary crazy deadly virus" has really brought them out of the woodwork.

>>12022436
>It's actually just a flu.
It's actually just a cold, but a cold that's worse than the seasonal flu by a large margin.

>>12022512
>And that's like your regular flu statistics.
In the USA and about at least a couple dozen other countries, it's been far worse than a regular flu season, and it's not even happening during the typical cold/flu season.

>>12022540
muh herd immunity

>>12022731
If you are afraid to be bitten, stay in your kennel.

>>12022540
If you are afraid of getting sick, stay inside.

>>12022699
>No, it didn't.
It did, in countries which adopted a sane policy like Sweden (which had like 30 deaths in the whole August).

>>12022502
Which is ~30 times more than all Sweden deaths during the last month:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
That's why lockdowns and masks are so malignant.

>>12024383
Sweden is still worse off than the US by deaths per capita, despite the sparse population.

>>12024447
Clearly not now that the pandemics is over. By the way, US population density is maybe 1.5 times larger, but US is more urbanized and way more Swedes live in Stockholm relative to country population than Americans in New York. So they are not actually that different and Sweden is arguably in worse conditions population-wise.

>>12024447
USA is a collection of state and they have different stats. For example, state of New York has twice the Swedish population and New Jersey has smaller population than Sweden. New York had six times Swedish deaths and New Jersey three times.

>>12021527
Actually corona death counts in most western nations are surprisingly accurate In Sweden and most of Europe as well as in the US. You can check if you look at excess mortality.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

>>12022790
>listening to the corporate lobbyist owned politicians from either party
Good for you I guess?
Lol

>>12024494
Basically the only group at *some* risk are old people with other diseases. Which means that the only thing you can do to cause noticeable amount deaths is to let corona into nursing homes. But that's exactly what New York government did - they forced nursing homes to accept people with corona from hospitals. That accounted for almost half of New York deaths. That happened not only in January-February and not even in March, but in April and May too!
So just think about it a bit: a political group which forces all sort of abuse on general population and applies all sort of dystopian measures using essentially a seasonal cold as an excuse also does everything possible to put that disease in the place where it actually can cause some harm.

>>12022262
How did he read it wrong exactly?

>>12020997
We do not have any of these things in Sweden.

>>12022294
Denmark is not a neighbor of Sweden.

>>12022294
Anon, I hate to tell you, but today you can arrive anywhere using boat or plane.

>>12024777
Sweden is an island of sanity thanks to Tegnell.

>>12022258
>Norway, Denmark, and Finland have death rates when averaged out that are 10x less than Sweden's
Even that claim isn't true (but the initial premise was ridiculous to begin with).

>>12024780
We have a bridge going straight to Denmark
>Select all images with bridges

>>12024789
So true. And they apologised for the initial care-home problems.

>>12024462
>Swedes live
pretty much like their neighbors do
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&location=Denmark&location=Finland&location=Norway&location=Sweden

>>12025346
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&location=Denmark&location=Finland&location=Norway&location=Sweden&location=US

>>12025370
>Swedes live
pretty much not like US does

>>12025346
>Swedes live
pretty much not like their neighbors do
>>12025424
>Swedes live
pretty much like US does

See, I can do it too.

>>12025448
I'm Finnish and visit Sweden often, so keep your bs to yourself. They are identical countries. Corona situation isn't. Sweden is a pariah state now, none of the surrounding countries allow them in.

>>12025480
>Sweden is a pariah state now, none of the surrounding countries allow them in.
Of course they can't, they don't have immunity, and now will have lockdowns and masks forever.

Belarus never had any lockdowns or masks. But now it also has huge anti- and pro-government protests. So no matter who will win you will be able to see two weeks later if everyone will now die from corona.

>>12025485
Brazil 2.0

>>12022732
>friend dies of Rhinovirus
>PEOPLE STATISTICLY DIE BECAUSE OF THE RHINOVIRUS LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE GET SICK THAT HAS SHOWN IT CAN RESULT IN DEATHS AAAAAAAAA

the more I hear you tards the more moving to a frozen wasteland seems good

>>12024585
I always see it as coke or pepsi, they are wrapped different and might even taste a little different. But at the end of the day you are swilling down corn syrup water from the same bloated subsidised farms

>>12024628
You really got no clue.
The group with just *some risk* are kids and young adults. Everybody else can get seriously ill and might end up in hospital and even on a ventilator. Everybody with pre-existing conditions or in retirement age got a hight risk for hospitalisation. Once you got seriously ill you got a 10% chance to die. Once you are on a ventilator you got a 50% chance to die.

>>12025929
Since median death age from covid is around 80, these young adults are actually not that young.

>>12021764
That would imply that they were human.

>>12021764
Hung like donkeys.

>>12024831
This picture is FAKE! Where are all the MUSLIMS???

>>12025929
Will have to pull up the reference, but if i remember right being put on the respirator actually increased the chances of succumbing to complications due to covid acting alot like... Pneumonia? The thing that international statistics have dissapeared on. Like nobody is dying of Phenomena after years upon years of being a consistant killer

>>12022486
It's comparing projections that were not about Sweden. Ferguson paper did not predict any deaths in Sweden; and doesn't even mention Sweden.

The March 16th paper's highest prediction for number of deaths in a two year period under minimal intervention strategy was 120,000. In Great Britain. OP's graphic pretends that claim was made about Sweden. Graphic is lying to you.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf

>>12024383
And Sweden's 5,802 deaths is ~828 times more deaths than Taiwan's had during the entire pandemic.

>>12024628
>Basically the only group at *some* risk are old people with other diseases.
In Europe, the only age group without an unusually large number of excess deaths for this time of year are kids under 14.

>>12024785
Sure, now that's splitting hairs. Might as well say that Japan and South Africa are neighbors.

>>12026390
The entire premise of looking neighbours was a ridiculous example of cherrypicking, so why not split hairs further?

>>12026431
>The entire premise of looking neighbours was a ridiculous example of cherrypicking
How is comparing countries with similar social etiquette, environments, and population densities cherry picking? Why would you compare vastly different countries for no reason when you have a perfect example of an experimental group (Sweden) and three controls (Finland, Denmark, and Norway)? When you change a significant amount of variables, there's no value in the comparison.

>>12026379
And it is infinitely worse than North Korean case! Ok, I knew about "Best Korea" meme, but I didn't know that North Korea was INFINITELY GOOD!
The sad thing that all the covid propaganda is based on the same logic.

>>12026445
North Korea has experienced thousands of deaths anon, but feel free to play obtuse and pretend they didn't happen because N. Korea isn't reporting the surge in pneumonia deaths as COVID-19.

>>12026444
1)This disease is not a seasonal cold, but is actually is a terrible plague which will decimate the humanity!
2)Ok, it is not a terrible plague, but you should stay under house arrest and wear muzzles because otherwise you will do so much worse!
3)What, there is a country which does not do any of these things and isn't doing any worse (actually it does much better currently)? But look, I can cherrypick a set of countries which had not just seasonal cold, but a weaker seasonal cold! Wonderful, the necessity of muzzles and house arrests is confirmed!

That's not goalpost moving, that's tying your goalpost to your forehead.

>>12026451
Of course if you will write every death with covid (or with something respiratory) as covid death, you will get a surge. But it's good that you started to question at least some stats.

>>12026386
Wow, the fabled Hidden Consequences started to surface! So did the median death age move from 80 to 10 yet?

>>12026444
USA population density is a bit higher than Swedish, but Swedish one is twice as high as Norway or Finland one. Denmark density is way lower with Greenland, but way higher without it (which should hint you how ridiculous it is to expect meaningful data from densities).
USA urbanization rate is lower than Swedish.
USA largest city holds less population relative to country compared to Stockholm.

As you can see, these comparisons only show that USA and Sweden are pretty comparable (with USA actually having it easier). So all the insane measures which are introduced now prove to be not just evil by itself, but they are also hardly useful when dealing with covid! Now of course that will make sense if that evilness is the main goal, but let's not get too conspirologic.

>>12026471
Are you schizophrenic?

>>12026532
Does the entirety of the USA have the same climate as Scandinavia? Do U.S. citizens have similar social habits as Scandinavians? Does Stockholm have the same population density as major U.S. cities?

The answer to all three is no.

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" -- R.A.W.

>>12026557
Anon, we already got your set of beliefs from >>12022790 Now go and stay the fuck home in a fucking mask.

>>12026532
>but Swedish one is twice as high as Norway or Finland one.
Sweden - 25
Finland - 18
A difference of 38%

>USA population density is a bit higher than Swedish
Sweden - 25
USA - 35
A difference of 40%

Deaths per million:
USA - 532
Sweden - 574
Finland - 60

So despite Sweden being 38% more dense than Finland, it has almost a 10x higher death rate. Despite Sweden having a 40% less dense population than the USA, it has a slightly higher death rate.

>>12026571
It's even worse: various places of USA have different social habits, densities and climate! And the same is true for Scandinavia or any other country/area! Now we realized that nothing can ever be compared. With that profound knowledge can we finally ditch the muzzles officially?

>>12026594
See >>12026593. Based on your criteria, the USA should have 10x more deaths than Sweden per capita since the difference in population between Sweden and Finland, and Finland and the USA, is almost the same.

>>12026593
Denmark population density without Greenland: ~135 persons per square kilometer
Denmark population density with Greenland: ~3 persons per square kilometer

Now we can clearly see that Denmark could have been great. But alas, it held on Greenland and now it is purely awful. A sad story, isn't it? By the way, using your logic: is Norway doing way worse than Denmark, or way better?

>>12026593
fucking wrecked. just shows how awful sweden's strategy is.

>>12026598
Based on MY criteria? Anon, my criteria is simple: when you want to introduce the total 1984, you need to have AT LEAST a)really deadly disease, not seasonal cold b)your 1984 methods causing real benefit, not. A failed in ALL countries (including even New York if you count it separately). B is failing too as you can clearly see when you compare USA and Sweden. If I'm discussing one of your ten-times-moved goalposts, it does not become MY criteria.

But you use >>12026379 not as a ridiculous self-parody, but as an actual argument, so not sure if what was said above will reach you.

>>12026607
USA had 176 thousands covid deaths and Sweden had 6. Looks like you are happy about 170K additional deaths.

>>12026593
Kek. This actually shows the USA's half-assed strategy was better than what Sweden did. No masks would put the USA at 5k deaths per million, which would be over a million total deaths.

>>12020962

This is a better chart, bro. Not sure why you're comparing Sweden to anything but its Nordic neighbours.

>>12026598
By the way, why are we comparing deaths per capita? That makes sense only if most citizens (or at least a significant amount) already got the covid. If you have an exponential epidemics, then total population hardly matters until you reach some saturation and actual herd immunity.

But since covid actually stopped in Sweden now, we can clearly assume the saturation case. Which drops the total death rate from "somewhat serious seasonal cold" to "normal seasonal cold".

>>12026646
>cherrypicking

>>12026641
No masks would have put USA at way better numbers. Of course you can try to increase them on purpose like Cuomo did.

>>12026641
How it is working now?

Most places don't require masks now and the rest just demand it at the register. You can be pretty comfy if you want to.

CONTACTLESS LIFE IS THE NEW NORMAL
YOU HAVE THE CORONAVIRUS
DONT BE SELFISH

>>12026789
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/08/12/could-wearing-a-mask-at-home-become-the-norm-

>>12026793
Wow, there is more:
https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/08/11/massachusetts-health-secretary-says-certain-residents-should-consider-face-coverings-inside-their-homes
https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/07/24/wear-a-mask-even-at-home-madrid-region-says.html

>>12026800
Also this:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/10/dnr-tells-staff-wear-masks-zoom-calls-even-when-they-home/3335232001/

>>12026471

1) Strawmanning
2) If you're under house arrest why would you need to wear a mask? And do you really think you're being "muzzled"? LMFAO. Not to mention, there are plenty of countries where mask wearing is more accepted but still have more relaxed distancing regulations due to better containment of the virus -- and these countries also allow you to hang out with friends, too. One of those countries is directly north of yours (I'm assuming you're American).
3)Sweden is doing better than which countries and in regards to what? Lmfao Sweden's economy has tanked.

>>12026594

>muzzles

Opinion discarded since you clearly are a paranoid schizophrenic.

>>12026652

What was cherrypicked?

>>12027006
1)No.
2)
> If you're under house arrest why would you need to wear a mask?
Because house arrests are still operating in many places and were active in a lot more. Also >>12026793 >>12026800 >>12026806
>And do you really think you're being "muzzled"?
Sure. Of course you can and should disobey that in most places, but the fact is here.
>Not to mention, there are plenty of countries where mask wearing is more accepted but still have more relaxed distancing regulations due to better containment of the virus -- and these countries also allow you to hang out with friends, too.
Wow, they let me hang with friends, truly an achievement for 2020! What liberties will we gain next?
>One of those countries is directly north of yours (I'm assuming you're American).
That works for any country (except rare good examples like Sweden)
3)
>Sweden is doing better than which countries and in regards to what?
In regard to not creating a grotesque dystopia over a seasonal cold.

>>12026652
sweden,norway,finland,denmark are like peas in a pod, very similar except for corona policy
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&location=Denmark&location=Finland&location=Norway&location=Sweden

>>12027013
Ok, you can call your muzzle a sign of honour! Now please proceed to wear it everywhere (including your home as the articles above advise).

>>12027049
Just like US.
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&location=Denmark&location=Finland&location=Norway&location=Sweden&location=US

>>12027053
>us like scandinavia
lolno

>>12027013
The classic government trick.
You don’t want to be controlled by us? Oh you must be crazy

>>12027019
The list of countries. If you don't like 176 thousand deaths, you can't just throw the country with them out. Of course that 176K isn't a reason for any of the dystopian measures too, but the goalposts already moved infinitely far.

>>12027056
Yes it is. Comparable urbanization, comparable population density, comparable population in largest city and so on.

>>12026593
Sweden, getting BTFO!

>>12026593
>>12026607
>>12027157
We got it, you like your post.

>>12020970
fpbp

>>12026593
>>12026646
So you're telling me if the goal is to have a lot of people die, go with Sweden's strategy?

>>12027065
universal health care

>>12027221
US has 170 thousands more deaths, so it is more successful in this respect. It also has 18K more deaths in August, so now Sweden seems to be totally losing it.

>>12020970

>>12027221
Basically yeah. Looking at Sweden's numbers compared to their neighbors, their strategy leads to at least a 500% higher death rate.

>>12027237
And ∞% higher death rate compared to North Korea.

>>12026607
It's not like it wasn't obvious already.

>>12027257
We got it, you continue to like your post.

>>12027257
It's obviously not obvious to everyone...

If everyone had worn the Cone of Shame since March when the CDC and WHO said they were the key to ending this pandemic, it would all be over. But no, for some reason not everyone wanted to cooperate. It's their fault that this disease is still around.

>>12027262
That's getting better and better.
But what about leash? How can you use the literal leash to fight corona? Something about social distancing?

I just worry about the kids, /sci/bros. Everyone I've talked to says that the online coursework for kids is trash and that they've had trouble with shitty apps, flaky teachers, and stupid course design.

What's the current generation of school children going to look like in twenty years if things get drawn out and the school system doesn't get their act together? The American school system is already so riddled with problems that we have so many kids struggle to even want to try to learn in the first place, but this seems so much worse still from what I'm hearing.

I worry that this is just going to make all their problems that much worse.

What do you guys think? Will kids adapt/bounce back from this and manage ok or will they get fucked over worse than ever and buckle? Will the pressure on the system lead to constructive change or tear it apart destructively? Are we gonna have a generation of relatively poorly-educated idiots and invalids coming of age over the next twenty years? Am I wasting too much worry thinking about it?

>>12027281
International students are already getting the hell out. The USA is screwed.

>>12027262
does not this make it worse because of gravity?

>>12021111

The digits do not lie.

>>12027262
That tweet is a lie. There is no rule that says waiters have to wear that. The only rule is waiters have to wear a mask. And if wearing face shield INSTEAD of a mask, it cant be such that you breath on the food.
Has there any research done on why /pol/ tards can never ever tell a truth?

>>12027304
Ah, so that's the hill you want to die on?

>>12027306
try going two posts without telling a lie next time

>>12027283
USA and to some extent even Europe lost all its prestige. The centre of the world power is going to move to China and east asia

>>12020962
>All-cause mortality was modestly above normal for nine weeks, late March to mid-May, and back to the normal-range by late May. A period of below-average mortality is expected in summer.
>modestly above normal
Excess mortality was more than double the previous high from the past five years, and they still haven't fallen below the expected mortality rate despite it being the middle of August.

>>12027316
Forgot image.

>>12027304
>And if wearing face shield INSTEAD of a mask, it cant be such that you breath on the food.
So the tweet is actually correct.

>>12027327
>Servers must wear face shields
Nope they can just wear a mask instead. people in the food industry already follows 20 different regulations, wearing a mask while serving food sounds like a pretty good idea actually. Is that the hill you are dying on? You want servers to breath on your food? I guess you don't want chefs to wear hairnet either?

>>12027332
>implying chefs wear hairnets
You’ve never worked in a kitchen

>>12021408
>United States is only country with divisive internal politics
Kek

>>12027445

Just because they don't, doesn't mean they shouldn't. They don't interact with customers so they don't need to look good, and it would bring the rate at which hairs enter food to near 0.

There isn't a single reason that you can make that gives credence to the argument that chef's "shouldn't" wear a hair net.

>>12027602
Don’t you want extra keratin in your diet?

>>12026058
https://youtu.be/wE3wqky46EY

>>12021149
no masks
no shutdowns except high school
it's all just voluntary and common sense, stores putting up unintrusive plastic barriers over the counter etc

>>12027316
so? it's a global pandemic and we dealt with it without ruining our economy

>>12027221
we actually want undesireables to die, retirement and healthcare costs a ton of money, much more than immigration

>>12027776
Just because it's voluntary doen't mean it's less effective.

>>12027785
ok mr death panel

>>12027281
I don't think it's specific to America. The schools focused on good grades so much that they skip the groundwork learning and only force children to learn the stuff they will get tested on. The only point is to pass the test, nothing is actually learned. Anything useful is learned by the children themselves out of their own interest. The more curious kids may have more time to learn on their own if schools got cancelled.

It's almost like Corona was and always will be a fucking scam that people got tricked into believing. In 1-2 years, we'll get the real, actual mortality numbers of people that died due to Covid-19, and it's going to decrease dramatically. When you start counting literally every patient who dies no matter what other underlying health issues they had as a Covid-19 death, the numbers are obviously going to skyrocket. We let China dictate our lives for the past several months, and we've had politicians running on fear campaigns who've got ties to big pharma that want to push expensive vaccines. In America, people have grouped in 8 months worth of supposed deaths just to make that number look a lot larger than it actually is, when we should be reporting and splitting them per month. The lie immediately falls apart once you actually begin to question it all and look into things, and realize that it's little more than a chest cold that might accelerate diseases or illnesses you already have, but really only if you're 50+. All we've managed to showcase is how easily you can control people through fear, and that most people will immediately comply with whatever outrageous issues. It went from being two weeks, to 5 months. It's fucking ridiculous that anyone but the elderly is still afraid of this shit, and I'm fucking goddamn sick of it.

>>12027781

>Muh economy

Bruh, it's made up. You realize that, right? Even this idea that printing money causes ridiculous inflation is generally a fabrication.

>>12027847
The only country I've seen have legitimate economic issues is Canada, which is well deserved. Anything that knocks Leaves down a peg is fine by me.

>>12027877

What are you talking about? Canada has plenty in reserve to keep people on CERB, their economy has mostly recovered (if not fully), and there are even plans to potentially implement UBI.

Canada is fairing better than America, fiscally and health wise.

>>12021254

it was an engineered virus released intentionally by the chinese. they staged all the spooky videos, leaked them out, made it seem like they were battling a dangerous virus, kinda shut everything down then let it spread throughout the world and sit back and watch other nations cut their own throats. china is fine, they even mocked us by saying they were no longer getting deaths soon as it started fucking europe.

>>12027928
It's a virus designed to kill normies. It exploits the flaw in their immune system that ruins their synapses. Some autist most likely did it.

>>12027929

absolutely based.

>>12027316
>>12027319
Totally worth the >>12020997

>>12027807
>It's almost like Corona was and always will be a fucking scam that people got tricked into believing.
I dearly hope that it's true. But reality is more grim, I think: you just can do whatever you want with 99+% of the nation and no one will even dare to do anything. Lock everyone at home forever? Introduce Chinese-style social rating? Put electronic bracelet on everyone? No one will complain. After all China is totally defeating the covid and North Korea is doing even better, so why not turn the world into the global North Korea?

>>12027788
Fuck off lizard man

>>12027262
New normal and the newest normal!

>>12026646

if you had told me back in March that unless we locked the country down, 500 people per million would die instead of 50 people per million, but most of them would be old either way, I would have completely not given a single fuck about this disease at all. I remember seeing figures like 10% mortality hinted at.

I have a great solution
1)People are divided into corona-fearers and corona-ignorers
2)Corona-fearers now stay at home all the time and in a rare case of going out get a permission and a hazmat suit. This way their chance to get corona becomes minuscule, but if they still get it due to the incredibly bad luck, they get top priority at hospitals.
3)Corona-ignorers continue their lives as usual. They are free to go out without any masks, but they also can stay at home if they want to. If they still get corona, they get lower priority in hospitals and insurance penalties.
Now people who think that corona is bad will avoid it, and people who don't consider it serious will either die, or prove that they were right.

>>12027281
Not only this but younger kids really need the socializing. I wouldn't want to have skipped a single week of my time in elementary and middle school, it was fundamental to me.
>>12027798
I've seen you in multiple threads. Fuck off CCP-paid troll, no one wiht an iq higher than 80 will like your country.

>>12027798
>I don't think it's specific to America.
I totally get that. I actually don't think America's schools are as bad as people say they are in comparison to everyone else's.

I just care more about the education system here, because I live here. I'm sure you understand.

>>12027877
If you start posting like fifty of those images like that one guy does on /pol/ I'm reporting you.

>>12027877
>net weight
>1.124kg (aka 2.478lbs)
>0.93lbs (aka 0.42kg)

So you're comparing an item that's about five times heavier than another item and saying that they should be the same price? If you made it even pound for pound that's $19.72/lb vs $5.39/lb. Are you fucking retarded dude? You understand that this is the board for Science and Math right?

inb4
>buh that still means that the Canadian one is four times as much!!1

Yes, but let's check things a bit more in detail. First off, let's look at the dates. The cut for Canada is this year, but the cut for the US is from last year. There's a little bit of inflation to account for there for the US dollar, 1.3% if the inflation calculator. So let's bring the US cut up by 1.3%

>$19.72/lb vs $5.46/lb

Now, let's figure out the actual conversion between currencies here. To keep it simple I'll just compare the current exchange rate, even though there's a good chance that the US dollar was a bit stronger than the CA dollar last year and would fudge it a bit. Current rate is 1CA:0.76US, so if we change that then we have.

>$14.98/kg vs $5.46/lb

inb4
>THAT'S STILL THREE TIMES AS MUCH YOU SHILL

Yes, it is, at little less but it's about on.

Though there's still a lot more stuff to consider. That you would really have to to make this fair.

1) Rib Eye cuts are almost universally more expensive then Sirloin cuts as it's considered a more desirable cut. You can literally look at these two pictures with the eyeballs you probably have and see that the left one has significantly more fat on it than the right one does.
2) The right picture is before Covid whereas the left one is right after the start of the global Covid mass panic were prices just started to go up. I can't say that this piece was affected, but if you do comparisons now then you'll find that the US cuts at least are a lot higher today then they were before on average.
3) We don't know the transport costs of each cut. The CA one is probably higher.

>>12027781
>so? it's a global pandemic and we dealt with it without ruining our economy
I was simply pointing out the ridiculousness of the wording in the OP's graph. There's nothing modest about an excess mortality rate that's 250% higher than at any other point in the past five years.

>>12027807
>When you start counting literally every patient who dies no matter what other underlying health issues they had as a Covid-19 death, the numbers are obviously going to skyrocket.
We have all-cause mortality numbers, and the total number of deaths are significantly elevated in many countries.

>In America, people have grouped in 8 months worth of supposed deaths just to make that number look a lot larger than it actually is, when we should be reporting and splitting them per month.
The USA averages 50k pneumonia deaths annually. There's been over 160k pneumonia deaths in the past six months, during a time of the year when pneumonia deaths are normally down (compared to cold and flu season). Excess mortality is up as well. What do you believe is causing all those people to die from pneumonia?

>>12028831
When you want to implement >>12020997 measures, then yes, such an excess mortality is pretty modest.

>>12028839
>What do you believe is causing all those people to die from pneumonia?
Governors forcing to send sick people into nursing homes.

>>12028844
You're adding context that isn't part of the OP's image, anon.

"All-cause mortality was modestly above normal for nine weeks"
It was excessively above normal. Everything above the dotted red line has gone beyond modest to substantial >>12027319.

"A period of below-average mortality is expected in summer."
Summer has one month left, and they're still above the expected mortality rate.

>>12028862
>Governors
Oh, which ones?

>>12020997
Republicans are so fucking stupid it's not even funny anymore

>>12028884
Cuomo to start with. He demanded to send patients with corona to nursing homes up until middle May. As a result New York has the largest number of deaths absolutely and second largest per capita + almost half of them come from the nursing homes.

>>12028886
Note that you can't disprove any of the points listed because all of them were/would be applied against the covid around the world (and each of them is dystopic even if taken alone).

>>12028894
I'm aware of Cuomo, he should be in jail for his actions, but you made it sound like other governors did the same thing. Taking NY out of the equation, that's still 130k pneumonia deaths to account for.

>>12028916
Cuomo is the worst example, but several other states did that too (most notoriously New Jersey which is second by deaths absolutely and first per capita).

>>12028931
Well, it's certainly something that should be looked into. If I had a family member die in that situation, I would want justice.

>>12028984
Here is an article dealing with this in more detail (it is from the late May, so some things may change since then):
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursing-homes-assisted-living-facilities-0-6-of-the-u-s-population-43-of-u-s-covid-19-deaths/amp/
>Instead, states like New York, New Jersey, and Michigan actually ordered nursing homes to accept patients with active COVID-19 infections who were being discharged from hospitals.
>Nearly one-tenth of all New Jersey long-term care residents have died from COVID-19

>>12028907
Republicans are also schizophrenic, I forgot to add. Slippery slope fallacy is so fucking prevalent.
>wear this mask to curb spread
>HELP MUH FREEDOM, THIS TRULY IS 1984

>>12029180
>Slippery slope fallacy
That's called "foot-in-the-door technique". Although in this case we are actually having door-in-the-face technique - not erosion of rights bit-by-bit, but immediate cancellation of the vast amount of rights.
By the way, masks, while malignant, are just a small part of the >>12020997

>>12027917
Canadian federal debt is at an all time high and rising. So no, there is nothing "in reserve" it is all in fact borrowed money. As usual. Retard.

>>12027283
>International students are already getting the hell out.
>screwed
lmao

>>12027281
boomers don't give a fuck about anyone younger than themselves
>>12027312
>>12027283
international students can go cheat somewhere else

>>12029421
Yes, screwed. If they leave, all we're left with is idiots. The USA built its technological empire with foreign minds.

>>12029446
ok chang

they'll go to new normal

>>12029430
Fuck, you know I didn't really care about boomers not giving a fuck about me, but for whatever reason boomers not giving a fuck about the kids now seems a lot worse.

>>12029332
>masks
>malignant
>small part of this
>*proceeds to confuse epidemiological measures with tyranny*
It writes itself

>>12031270
How much do they pay you?

>>12029180
>>12029332
The slippery slope fallacy is entirely reasonable when you live among a certain kind of people.
>the line is here
ok
>2cm off
whatever
>2 more cm
hey stop there.
>ok, my bad
>1cm more
ah, whatever
>another 1.5cm
I TOLD YOU TO STOP CROSSING THE LINE!
>ah, yes. It's just one cm, there is no need to be angry.
>another 1.2cm
...
>the line moves two meters while you just give up it being moved.
>yet another cm.
STOP FUCKING GOING BEYOND THE LINE WE AGREED ON OR i'M GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOU.
>You are getting agressive, you need a psychiatrist.
>I carelessly slipped 2 centimeters over the line and you threaten to fucking kill me, you are a dangerous person mr. anon. We need to take measures to protect our society from dangerous individuals like yourself.

>>12031735
Use freedom units as needed.

BTW, this is called the salami method and is done entirely on purpose. It's like the salami, which is long, and you take only thin slices of it, so that one slice doesn't look like it diminishes the salamy much, but eventually, you do eat it whole. So basically you take tiny measures that no sane person will protest against. Then after a while you push a bit forward. and so on and so on. When somebody protests, you can call them insane for being so mad about such a tiny change, and when they want to backroll the changes you can argue it has been like that for let's say almost a decade and their demands are unreasonable.

>>12026646
So you're telling me Sweden "flattened the curve". That's great!

>>12028661
And neither would anyone else.
It's interesting how the lockdown loonies are morphing their arguments to save face after the virus turned out to be literally hardly worse than the flu.