/sci/ - Science & Math

>>12025327
I fucking hate external tank shuttles,i mean how many times must these shits explode for people to realize they suck?

How do I actually get involved with space though?

Are we all doomed to just post in these threads and observe as other people do cool things, powerless to become involved as other people achieve one of the coolest accomplishments in human history?

>undetected asteroid of significant size hits populated area of a nuclear armed nation
>triggers some kind of nuclear exchange in the following confusion
how retarded is this idea

>>12025336
Yes

>>12025327
Pregnant Space Planes Edition

Can Ion thrusters like VASIMR run on Hydrogen? I'm guessing lithium and noble gasses are expensive and hydrogen would deliver better ISP.

>>12025336
Work with an aerospace or space adjacent company. I work for AWS so I interact with the Ground Station guys sometimes.

>>12025345
VASIMR is planned to run on LH2.

>>12025338
>Confusion
Dude the asteroids entry would be visible for thousands of miles,no mistaking it for a missile.

>>12025338
Depends on the nation, both the USSR and USA have had all their early warning systems scream at them that armageddon was starting in the past at one point, and we only live to tell it because the guy with his finger at the button thought something wasn't right and they took the time to find out it was a freak accident.
Now some crackpot nation like best korea, those fuckers would nuke seoul if a meteor wipes out pyongyang.

>>12025336
Make enough money to do whatever the fuck you want

Fuck green fags and fossil shills for sabotaging nuclear at every fucking step,we could have nuclear powered space ships and stations by now damnit.

Could a shuttle have got to a stable ISS height orbit with the external tank still on?

>>12025366
Reminder that the anti nuclear movement in the West was literally started by Soviet spies to cripple us. Meanwhile in Russia they use enormous RTGs for fucking coastal lighthouses.

>>12025373
Doubt it. Even after the external tank is dropped they need to use the maneuvering thrusters to get to a stable orbit.

>>12025366
>tfw you meet someone who thinks a meltdown=mushroom cloud
It makes me violently angry.

>>12025387
>Even after the external tank is dropped they need to use the maneuvering thrusters to get to a stable orbit.
And I thought that the Shuttle couldn't get any more pathetic.

Air Force steals the X-37b from the Space Force
https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/08/18/pentagon-plans-to-keep-x-37b-spaceplane-under-air-force-management/

Looks like the AF is still holding back space as much as it can.

>>12025401
The BIG G discussions from last thread were so depressing. Shuttle style seven men and an orbital hab mission on a fucking Titan IIIM, and it was cancelled because the glowy bois needed a space arm attached to a hypersonic airplane.

>>12025403
The Air Force working to keep the X-37B under their jurisdiction tells me that what it does is more related to airplanes than spacecraft. It's a research platform, not a weapons system.

>>12025403
Will the Space Force even continue to exist if Biden wins in November? Seems like the kind of Trump legacy that the Dems would just love to eradicate right away.

>>12025336
1) work as engineers @ space companies
2) work as janitors @ space companies
3) work as lawmakers to promote space companies
4) youtube eceleb as space popularizer
5) shitpost on leddit/sfg/etc and popularize to public

>>12025486
Maybe. If it dies I swear Scott Manley will defend that.

>>12025486
He'd keep it around but allow companies whose puppet strings lead back to the Chinese government be contractors for it.

>MK1 (Popped)
>MK2 (Scrapped)
>Test Tank 1 (Popped)
>Test Tank 2 (Popped)
>Header Test (Popped)
>SN1 (Shucked)
>SN2 (Not a complete Starship, but survived).
>SN3 (Smushed)
>SN4 (Exploded)
>SN7 (Popped)

Damn

>>12025520
casualties of progress my friend.

>>12025520

/sfg/ - spaceship porn edition

>>12025373
Quite possibly. There were wet workshop proposals to use the ET as the basis for a massive space station.

>>12025520
>tfw you get the one seat with the heatshield

>>12025486
Biden isn't a pacifist, he's not going to shut down an obviously necessary military branch. The transfer over probably cost billions of dollars and wasting the additional billions of dollars to merge it back in would be impressively terrible government out of pure spite.

>>12025520
This is how we build rocket to send man to other planet.

>>12025549
>impressively terrible government out of pure spite
Well, yeah.

>>12025549
>impressively terrible government out of pure spite.
That's basically the 2020 Democrat platform.

>>12025554
>>12025552
You're thinking of Trump who dismantled all the progress Obama made just because Obama did it, and the mindless Trump drones that will support whatever he says no matter what, even it's against their own interests.
"Fuck Liberals" is the only thing Republicans care about.

>>12025567
dilate

>>12025520
Making the mother of all omelets, here. Can't worry about breaking a few eggs.

>>12025336
Invest in Tesla stonks, get dummy rich, sell your stonks, become Anon Musk.

>>12025567
You're thinking of Biden who dismantled all the progress Trump made just because Trump did it, and the mindless Biden drones that will support whatever he says no matter what, even it's against their own interests.
“Fuck Conservatives” is the only thing Democrats care about.

>>12025567
The only space flight thing from the Obama administration that Trump ended was the asteroid redirect mission, and that program was so underdeveloped that an advertisement in KSP was more developed than it. Gateway stuck around (albeit renamed). SLS didn't get canceled. Commercial cargo and crew were allowed to run to completion. In fact, Trump hardly did anything in space flight other than rename Gateway and called for a lunar mission, and that was the most positive support a president gave for space flight since Kennedy.

>>12025567
You're thinking of radiation therapy which dismantled all the progress cancer made in the body just because cancer did it, and the mindless chemotherapy drones that will support whatever it does no matter what, even against their own interests.
"Fuck Cancer" is the only thing doctors care about.

Yes. There is nothing "liberal" about the modern "liberal" movement, authoritarian central planning based off of bad copies of strategies used by third world dictatorships, organized crime syndicates and the two most evil ideologies in human history is not "liberal" no matter how much "liberals" try and insist so. The faster this poisonous non-liberal "liberalism" is excised from society, the better it will be for every person and every field, including spaceflight.

>>12025567
>>12025583
The reality is that Bush, Obama, and Trump were all unusually good to the space program, and their collective efforts have created the best conditions for spaceflight since the 1960s and put us on the path for pic related.

Idpol brainlets can get out. All that we care about here is how close we are to Mars.

>>12025584
He doubled NASA's budget as well, which allows them to either expedite their own projects or contract more work from private entities. It's not as visible as giving support to any specific project, but it does represent a general support of NASA and any of it's goals from the Executive.

>>12025592
>In Uni
>Professor is justifying looting and burning down Targets by BLM
>Keeps talking about how what they’re doing is okay because if they didn’t burn down targets no one would care

Jesus it’s day 3 and I want to get the fuck out of here lmao

>>12025520
This is a quality post, Shekelstein

Alright retards I have an idea for a cool space game and want to guage interest

>Play as a soviet astronaut who has infilitrated NASA
>Get launched on an apollo mission
>Have to sabotage it enough to force an abort, but not so much that you're killed/discovered

IDK if it'll be 2D or 3D, but I think the main pillars would be sabotaging the spacecraft (minigames and stuff), and convincing your other crewmembers that your innocent.

>>12025596
To be fair as much as I dislike Obama and Bush (yeah I hate Bush too) if it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t have SpaceX. Even if they didn’t intend it, it’s what happened. If we didn’t have Hitler we wouldn’t have Saturn V’s. Same thing.

>>12025601
Alrigjt now my teacher is talking about how Jesus was Communist goddamnit get me out of here

>>12025609
Sounds like it could easily have a niche, I've heard of other similar "secret enemy" kind of games. Ideally you'd probably want to have it be 5-person multiplayer or something like that, with four "real" astronauts and one "sabatour".

>>12025596
Based Spacism. Ideology is meaningless, space is eternal (kind of).

>>12025601
>>12025614
Holy fuck Anon, the worst I've ever had is a professor going off on some random climate rant in the middle of a chemistry lecture and embarassing himself by spouting incorrect figures about nuclear powerplant outputs.
RIP

>>12025609
>sabotaging the spacecraft (minigames and stuff)
take it from someone who made this mistake before: saying "idk it's all minigames" is a design crutch. Minigames are just an excuse to design a bad video game because it's a short experience. Find a proper engaging mechanic instead and lean into it.
>we're in sgf not agdg
weird

>>12025617
Wow I actually hadn't thought of multiplayer, that would be awesome

>>12025609
There's some challenges with the concept. Singleplayer probably is out since it'll be hard to code bots to be convincingly innocent. Having the sabotaging be done in space might be unfun, because everyone is sitting right next to each other with little chance to do something covertly. Properly coding and modeling most of the modules on and around the Apollo spacecraft will most likely be tedious (but not hard since the technical documents are publicly available), but would be orgasmic for a space nerd if done competently. Might be best to do an alternate history Apollo with a different mission profile that better suits the gameplay style.

>>12025614
Lucky you,at least you can have an opinion about your uni. I couldn't give less of a shit about mine, i have no idea how i'm gonna pass this year. Fuck IT in third world countries.

>>12025631
Yeah I thought of that too, so I might set it in an alternate history where the cold war continues and a lunar spaceship would be more similar to the hermes from the martian. It would be a cool chance to implement NOVA or Sea Dragon too.

>>12025640
I also suggest boiling down your concept into its simplest form and making a game around that first before you start to wonder about additional features.

>>12025647
Yeah if I make a tech demo it'll probably be just an empty spaceship interior that'll let you float around and interact with a few objects

>>12025609
Sounds like Among Us.

>>12025403
I mean it makes sense since the X-37b doesn't go to real space, only orbital space so the air force should keep it

>>12025614
Is he making the comparison in a pro-commie sense or an anti-Jesus sense? That's one of the classic horseshoe theory examples.

>>12025550
Don't forget all of the F-1 prototypes that they blew up before they got the combustion instability issues under control.

>>12025609
Name 1 (one) (uno) (singular) good space game. Autism simulators like Kerbal don't count.

>>12025403
Space Force resurrecting X-33 when?

>>12025664
>name a good space game
>autism simulators don't count
uh
anon

>>12025664
Mass Effect

>>12025664
>Space game
>Not an autism simulator
Maybe Ass Effect and that cawadooty that was set in space are more your speed.

>>12025599
What are you talking about? Neither the Obama or Trump admins doubled the budget.

>>12025664

>>12025673
Didn't the Trump admin pump NASA's budget? I could have sworn they significantly increased it. Fuck did I switch timelines?

>>12025664
FTL is one of the best games ever

>>12025610
If it wasn't for WWII we might never have set foot on the Moon, history has an odd irony for sure.

>>12025664
FTL
>Listening to the soundtrack now
>10/10 study background music

Bros what's the 2nd best aerospace company besides SpaceX? Is it unironically Boeing? Blue origin?

>>12025664
Spacewar.

>>12025684
It's not Boeing.

t. Applied for them multiple times and got shafted

>>12025614
If Jesus was around today he'd 100% unironically support Bernie Sanders. You know this is true.

>>12025684
Northrop-Grumman at least has a functional ISS cargo stack (Cygnus / Antares) and Lockheed makes good planes.

>>12025664
Children of a dead earth

>>12025684
For me it's ULA

>>12025592
Reminder that science is a fundamentally liberal process.

>>12025690
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/6-9.htm

>>12025690

>>12025697
I don't get this reusable bait meme.

>>12025664
Depends on your definition of space game, but Space Engine is nice. I miss the good threads we'd have on /v/ half a decade ago.

>>12025705
fuck, i forgot about space engine.

>>12025609
That could actually be pretty fun if executed well. If you go the VR route, take a look at “I Expect you to Die” for mechanical inspiration.

>>12025684
Lockheed. Their budgets and deadlines tend to slip, but that’s everyone in the industry, and they actually deliver functional products unlike Boeing.

>>12025696
Tory has confirmed that they're making more Rocketship boats to increase launch cadence when Vulcan comes online. If my tech stocks hit Fuck You Money by that point I'd see if I could get merchant marine training and work on the boat sailing rockets from Alabama to Canaveral or Vandenburg. It would be so comfy.

>>12025696
>Safety cowby hat
yeehaw

Anyone playing FS 2020?

>>12025692
>Children of a dead earth
200% autism simulator

>>12025735
It's a legitimately good design since it shields more of you from falling debris, as well as looking cool.

>>12025700
That verse describes Trump to a T

>>12025684
SNC/Masten/Rocketlabs are tied, followed by NG because cygnus is based

Solid Launch System

>>12025753
when the opposition party supports literal execution of infants after birth I'm inclined to believe that if Jesus does exist he's not a Democrat this cycle

>>12025759
YES

>>12025327
OH NONONONONO....

>>12025750
But it doesn't deflect worth a damn.

>>12025759
What does the orange tank even do at this point, second stage?
>mfw that would actually be better since hydrolox is the king of vacuum engines but sucks on the ground

>>12025765
>hydrolox is the king of vacuum engines

>everyone in /sfg/ hating on le orange tanks and hydrolox

so which is it

>>12025765
>What does the orange tank even do at this point, second stage?
A mode of Saturn INT-18 would do this.

>>12025766
The hydrohating is just a meme. Hydrolox is great in space, but less great as a booster stage.

>>12025766
Everyone loves the Saturn V, which had a hydrolox third stage. It's just really, REALLY bad at first stages due to gravity losses from its inferior thrust. The SLS already gets 75% of its thrust from the SRBs.

>>12025760
Turn off Fox News you schizo

>>12025779
https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/

Also Fox News is center-right at best these days.

>>12025766
Still trash till you get to at least the gen-3+ nuclear rockets. Until then you're looking at tank dry masses 2+ times higher than a LOX/Kerosene, 60%+ higher than LOX/Methane, but efficiencies only 30-ish% higher. On top of that you're looking at very anemic TWR, especially at sea level, possibly no hope of easy reusability due to embrittlement at cryogenic and pressurized conditions, and an excessive amount of mechanical complexity especially in backflow prevention and gas seals compared to all other engine types. I'd even argue that pure methane might be better in solid core nuclear rockets because it's non-corrosive, won't cause embrittlement, and so long as it's kept pure it won't leave significant deposits behind.

>>12025781
He's just gonna call it fake news, anon.

>>12025789
Of course he will. He is a fisher.

>>12025666
Please..

>>12025760
Turn off Fox News you schizo

>>12025684
ULA is nice I guess, but Lockheed is the coolest

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1296158590646939649?s=19

neat

>>12025781
>"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And it's done in cases where there amy be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So I think this was really blown out of proportion."

I mean shouldn't non viable foetus get the airlock? Not like there's air to spare in space

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETip5i7YgwU

>>12025861
So I guess that means that while Raptor has more parts, they've been arranged to be more easily disassembled? Neat, it's something you don't even have to think about with expendable engines or engines with so few firings in them that they'll be completely wrecked before you have to worry about the buildup of combustion products, but for a long-lifespan engine being easy to take apart and put back together on the regular will be vital.

rocket reusability is a fucking meme, just build a new one and siphon tax dollars from the american people like true space chads

>>12025867
It also likely has something to do with the fact that methalox burns a good bit cleaner than kerolox. Probably less deposition to clean out in the first place.

>>12025872
But reusing them means you get more rockets

>>12025874
I can understand at least why the idea of an easy-to-disassemble rocket is relatively immature in terms of examples. When it takes you 500 man-hours to assemble an engine and each part needs to be hand-tweaked to actually meet tolerances (as was the case with say the F1, or RS-25) then being able to take the thing down completely is pretty out of the question.

>>12025876
just follow the SLS method you get 1 rocket every 10 years

>>12025889
>launch 8 rockets over the average human lifespan

>>12025788 Methane is a liquid under pressure at room temperature - usually not considered as a viable fuel, but I agree it ought to be looked at for solid core nuclear. My question is - what about ammonia? Has very similar mechanical characteristics, readily available and doesn't contain any carbon - disassociation end products are all gasses. I'm not sure anyone has ever looked at it for a fuel.

>>12025898
>tfw the first 2 blow up
>tfw i have no face

>>12025788

>>12025861
Makes sense I guess. Raptor hasn’t had any “coking” issues yet but it seems like they are aware of it and probably have cleaned a few Merlins in the past.

I think we can assume that SpaceX probably will limit the number of core flights based on how dirty the engines are. Simply because the engines are the most expensive part of the stage and if you’re throwing them away then the cost saving might not be worth it. Who knows.

>>12025335
Without side stacking of SRBs it looks a bit safer then the STS. Still no pad abort or for early ascent, though.

>>12025903
I've advocated ammonia before, it's dense, easily stored, doesn't decay over time, but the one downside is that you'd have to use the Haber process to create new reaction mass. So you'd need to find your own nitrogen, crack ice into oxygen and hydrogen, then use the hydrogen and nitrogen to create your ammonia. Very energy intensive, although for a ship with a III or IVth gen nuclear reactor aboard it wouldn't be an issue. The dry mass of the equipment would be the biggest pain in the ass to deal with. In that sense it's easier to just create LH2.

will proonting ever be viable?

Starship Heavy

>>12025549
Biden doesn't have a policy. He's a vehicle for getting Kamala into the white house and nothing more. He's an alzheimer goner.

>>12025946
imagine the smell

>>12025944
Not with concrete because it comes out as a liquid and dries slowly, but polymer/rock powder composites and solid metals or plastics work just fine. You can use supersonic deposition for metal, it essentially welds the metal together with impact velocity and can create homogenous parts as strong as if they'd been cold rolled from a die with no sintering, heat treating, and probably only minimal final milling required. Normal extrusion printing works just fine for polymer/basalt mixes, it comes out very thick sorta like cooling lava and rapidly hardens. The NASA test for habitat PROOOONTERS yeilded a win for a team using a basalt/plastic mix that could tollerate the full weight of a bucket excavator leaning on only a 1-inch thick wall. A much smaller concrete structure with walls nearly a foot thick collapsed entirely under similar loading.

>>12025946
its like a chonkier, chromier, larger Venture Star

>>12025946
citation needed
>>12025957
What's Kamala's opinion on space, she better not be an anti-spacer.

>>12025969
I doubt she has one. She's not a moderate like media likes to portray her as, she's pretty fucking far left in the democrat party, distant humming of White on the Moon should be expected.

What is Kamala's space policy gonna be Bros? Is she gonna urgently push for humanity to get off earth as fast as possible to save humanity/America?

>>12025969
She hasn't got one, she's a power politician who will assume whatever opinion will advance her own personal gain the most. If you bribed her to like space, she'd like space, but I think with the current situation she'd be more along the lines of "space is using up money that needs to be spent on gibsmedat instead!" Not becuase she actually believes it, but because that's what she thinks will endear the brainlet normie population to her the most.

>>12025969
>What's Kamala's opinion on space
Unknown. She rarely said much about it publicly beyond token comments.

>>12025978
I hope it isn't a coincidence that Kamala in finnish means horrible

>>12025972
>distant humming of White on the Moon should be expected
That pity wank of a poem better not get popular again.

>>12025903
Methane Isp is still almost as good as LH2 for nuclear thermal. Ammonia is significantly worse and water is a LOT worse. The only place water as propellant makes sense is for solar-thermal robots mining NEAs where they have both heat and water ice in abundance for ISRU, and aren't in a hurry to get back.

>>12025358
>just win the lottery 10 times in a row man lol

>>12025979
Most normies aren't anti-space though, they are apathetic which sucks, but not anti-space.

>>12025358
you say that like it is eassy

>>12025736
Is that you Kevin?

>>12026002
This. Most normies think space is cool but generally don’t prioritize it. Like I gaurantee more people support increasing the military budget vs sending up Cassini 2 or something.

Very few people are “WHITEY ON THE MOON” tier but if BLM starts parading that shit then it might become more mainstream, which sucks.

>>12026002
They are apathetic so they can easily be convinced to become antispace if they can be convinced that it's detracting from other garbage that they care more about.

I didn't realize Dreamchaser now depends on Vulcan for a ride to space. Either way, Dreamchaser+Centaur+Vulcan is a second wholly private semi reusable manned spaceflight system, after Falcon 9 + Crew Dragon.
>Boing is going to be in THIRD PLACE for private sector spaceflight
>there will be PRIVATE SPACEPLANES before their gay Starliner reaches orbit

>>12026017
there aren't plans for dream chaser to carry people anymore, its purely a cargo craft.

>>12026021
gaaaaaaay

>>12026021
>dream chaser
>the dream has ended

>>12026021
>>12026017
>>12026022
>>12026023
>As of 2020, the Sierra Nevada Corporation says it still plans to produce a crewed version of the spacecraft within the next 5 years. The company says it "never stopped working" on the crewed version and fully intends to launch it after the cargo version

never mind, but personally i'm very doubtful of this happening for the same reason nasa were, launching in a fairing is not a good idea for a manned craft

>>12026031
>within the next 5 years
LMAO

Who the fuck would pay to ride in a cramped shuttle when you can ride in 100 passenger Mars express for CHEAPER?

>>12025336
>Are we all doomed to just post in these threads and observe as other people do cool things, powerless to become involved as other people achieve one of the coolest accomplishments in human history?
You mean just like the other 99.99999999% or whatever of people on earth that don't work at SpaceX? You are also not going to cure cancer, or be a world champion sportsman, or a genius super villain, or the next Newton. Do you feel bad about those things too?

>>12026021
What?
aaaaaAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!
>Mr. Bruno I don't feel so good...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTLmD2kFDm0

>>12026031
>5 years
bros imagine if spacex didnt exist i would have killed myself

I bought a SpaceX mug so I'm helping to ensure humanity's survival.

>>12025336
>How do I actually get involved with space though?
No idea. Still struggling to get a job in this industry. Tempted to look for one of those fast and loose space startups just for the technical experience.

>>12026054
Thanks anon, we wouldnt be able to get to Mars(tm) without you!

>>12025567
>Muh progress

Maybe not everyone likes those changes.

>>12026011
A bigger military is nearly always good, since it translates directly to diplomatic power.

How hard can it really be to adapt Artemis to Starship?

What's the theoretical dV of magnesium?

>>12026079
>How hard can it really be to...
really hard

>>12026011
i dont think as many people support blm as you think

>>12026079
It requires SpaceX making campaign contributions to most of Congress's reelection campaigns

>>12026079
It takes 13 launches of Starship to get 5 tons of cargo to the moon and back. You could launch the Lunar Excursion Starship into LEO, and then have it refueled by 12 tankers. You can then launch a Dragon into LEO which docks with the Starship and transfers the crew. Starship burns to the moon and lands directly. The crew do their thing on the surface and then Starship lifts off and flies back, but aero brakes into LEO. It can then rendezvous with the earlier Dragon, or just sit in LEO until another Dragon launches.

There. Doesn’t need ISRU, and no complex refueling trips are required.

>>12025676
Trump is trying to drop an extra half a billion or so on NASA but the House is trying to cockblock him

>>12026092
This is 4chan. Everyone is in one of exactly 2 political stances and 100% supports everything in it. There's no nuance.

>>12025664
FTL is gay and unwanted. The best singular space game on the market right now is Star Trek Bridge Crew, the VR one

>>12025773
the S-II is also hydrogen
three out of seven stages on the Saturn V were hydrolox

>>12026097
the pussies in the house always lose to based shelby, cruz and the senate appropriations committee.

THIS IS MAJOR CHRIS TO CA-NA-DA
ALTHOUGH WE BUILT AN A-A-ARM
I AM SINGING, IN A VERY REDDIT WAY
AND MY UPVOTES ARE EN-COUR-A-GING, TO-DA-A-A-AY

>>12025664
Elite Dangerous but only with VR

>>12025664
Wing commander.
Yes, I'm old.

>>12026095
>Starship lifts off and flies back, but aero brakes into LEO
Are you sure that would be aero braking? Wouldn't that be just firing their thrusters to enter orbit?

>>12025664
Star Control 1 & 2.
There's two, pleb.

Why can't spacecraft descend slower into the atmosphere so they don't have to deal with the huge amount of air friction?

>>12025978
Cancel every thing. We need more money for dem programs.

>>12026104
I'm talking about outside of 4chan

>>12026121
don't shittalk Chris he's cool

>>12026140
that's just how it is, anon

>>12026140
If your angle is too shallow you'll just bounce off the atmosphere and back into space. A capsule can't because it has no lifting surface per-say, the shuttle and other hypothetical spaceplanes do have a lifting body and control surfaces and they do take more time on descent, it generates more total heat, but results in a much lower peak heat, reducing the need for a heavy TPS.

>>12026140
The friction is how it brakes from orbit. It's called aerobraking. The alternative is doubling your delta-v budget to slow down propulsively, which is insane.

>>12026149

g2b, Chris

>>12026159
no I just woke up

>>12026157
the HLS Lunar Starship for NASA, if it ever needs to be returned to Earth, can do it with refueling

>>12026157
>>12026154
Just brake real slow so you don't need a big heavy shield

>>12026154
cool fact actually is that capsules do produce slight lift by having the center of mass slightly offset

>>12026140
Because it looks cool as fuck.

>>12025946
Imagine the noise

>>12026140
Not friction, most of the heat comes from the vessel compressing the air ahead of it

>>12026179
Six Saturn Vs.

>>12026167
Read again, if you brake too slow you won't actually penetrate deep enough into the atmosphere, you'll skip off like a stone off the surface of a lake and end up back in space. You can do this in a controlled manner multiple times, but generally speaking you don't want to have to perform any overcomplicated maneuvering just to get home. The more times you have to atmoskip the more chances there are for something to go wrong.

>>12026165
HLS Starship also needs a fuckton of refueling flights. I just assumed a vanilla cargo/crew starship for this.

>>12026193
But anon the gravity will keep pulling you back in no matter how many times you bounce, besides if you orient yourself correctly and produce just the correct amount of lift you wont bounce

>>12026017
Boing will be fourth you mean

>>12026217
If the retards at Blue Onanism ever stops jerking off over their Lenin figmas and build a working orbital rocket I may actually die of shock.

>>12026217
>Sure we're behind everyone else and our rocket is just used for rich tourists, but hey, we still beat Boing!

>>12026217
Why is bezos so creepy? It’s not just the baldness because Tory is bald and he’s based.

>>12025664
ME2 man

Boeing

>>12026229
cringe

>>12025946
Looks extremely kino but would be way more complicated than just making a bigger diameter cylinder

Slow day for space flight

>>12026224
He seemed like a genuine entrepreneur in his younger years, but now it looks like he realized he can become the cartoonishly rich omnipotent supervillain and has leaned into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWRbTnE1PEM

>>12026217
Sometimes I wonder why billionaires dont use their money like Musk does, then I remember how utterly useless most of them are in anything that even tip toes outside their specific field of knowledge.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1296170277899055110
elon talking about raptor

So how would an atmosphere-capable starfighter return to its carrier in orbit without some kind of booster? If it carried both jet and rocket engines and/or enough fuel to complete its mission and to reach escape velocity, wouldn't it end up extremely slow and unmaneuverable?

>>12026241
God he really got in at absolute ground level. I remember just how dreadful the web was in 97

>>12026125
Do you need a fancy graphics card?

while we're waiting for the 150m hop, let us enjoy this 300m hop https://twitter.com/Linkspace_China/status/1295888996367654912
>that 360 camera tho

>>12026241
What the fuck, he really seems autistic. But he made the right business choices. How much different would his life be right now if he decided to do a CD business instead of a book business?

>>12026275
By (hopefully navigating to an uninhabited area and) setting off a nuclear charge

>>12026140
The more you slow down the steeper you fall and the further you fall the denser the air gets.
You can skim the upper atmosphere and make multiple passes before terminal descent, but it's generally not worth doing that way.

You can make re-entry a bit gentler by having a higher drag to mass ratio such as with a ballute or inflatable heat shield, but that adds cost and complexity.

>>12026296
You can tell the Chinese were butt blasted over the SN5 hop.

>>12026313
If buttblasted Chinamen decide they're going to build Starship (OEM PARTS ONLY, FREE DELIVERY, FIVE STAR ALIBABA) edition I won't be mad. I hope it spurs NASA to invest more in Starship.

>>12025898
I google searched that pic and got some bizarre results wtf

>>12026167
you can't "go slow" if you're trying to get down to the surface, it needs to be done all at once
they already optimize it to do what you're saying the best they can with aerodynamic lift, but it's still hell

>>12025946
I need to know what Elon thinks about that chonk monster

>>12026296
Those engineers have soul, even if the government they inevitably work for doesn't.

>>12025905
Found your face

>I need to know what Elon thinks about that chonk monster

>>12026313
Meh. I think you're thinking of ESA

Road closures moved earlier by one day. https://www.cameroncounty.us/spacex/

Is "Metallic hydrogen" a meme?

>>12026354
yeah

>>12026342
What could've been.. worse even, they canned Energia later on too..

>>12026354
hydrogen in any form is a meme

>>12026354
Unobtanium.

>>12026349
China, ESA, Roscosmos, take your pick.

>>12026275
fighters are a meme, all you will see is armed missiles that shoot small targets and ram important stuff.

Will Colonial Mars be a democracy, an autocracy, or something else? In the period after permanent settlement (so not just early set up missions) in the run up to the 1 million population goal.

>>12026401
I agree and I've put my money where my mouth is by investing in Kratos. Low cost stealth fighter drones.

>>12026404

>>12026318
The Chinamen aren't the issue dude

>>12026348
>too afraid to quote the actual post.
You sure showed him, dude.

>>12026404
Democracy is a failed god.

>>12026419
the issue is making Mars self sustaining before the US collapses to a point where space launches are untenable

>>12025327
Is not more economical feasible to build a EM catapult instead of wasting all that energy producing hydrogen?

>>12026438
EM catapults have to be fuckhuge also they have insane g forces that would kill your crew

>>12026438
Which body are we trying to achieve orbit from?
>urf
Thick atmosphere makes catapults silly. Launch loops are possible but good luck.
>anywhere else with less atmosphere
yeah maybe

>>12025336
I had a job offer from Space X to do fuel stuff. They pay garbage and the W/L balance is even worse, you are %100 working for that company to get paid in hype. Just apply, they have a high turnover rate.

>>12025944
I do a better job on the toilet

>>12026450
Do you get any stock options? SpaceX could be VOC big if Mars works out.

>>12025676
Trump is trying to get NASA to do actual space stuff instead of being a scientific junk drawer that has over lap with a dozen other agencies (NOAA, EPA)

>>12026239
99.9% of days are slow days for spaceflight. And that's still a hell of a lot faster than what it was a decade ago

>>12025946
Why is silvered?

>>12026217
Kane Lives!

>>12026469
Electropolished stainless steel

>>12026216
In fact it won't, forget the "skip like a stone" meme, what really happens is if you can't bleed enough energy to lower your whole orbit into the atmosphere you'll just continue your merry way back to space on a ballistic trajectory.

Is Elon's steel supply American or Chinese?

>>12026506
american, i think texas based actually
chinese metallurgy is pure shit btw

>>12026506
He wants what he ordered, so I can guarantee it's not Chinese.

>>12026506
>buying chink steel
>ever

I reject ANY steel from that country and tell my supplier to pull their heads out of their ass. Nobody, I repeat, nobody uses chinesium for anything important.

>>12026506
Its American made by swedish company operating in Texas I think.

>>12026510
What about ore?

>>12026526
Ore is ore that stuff is probably fine.

>>12026526
They have access to really good minerals, in fact they produce the most rare earth metals. This is good for things like electronics. They’re shit at using those to their advantage, however

>>12026530
They were made using oxygen that was at some point in Chine, therfore Starship belong to CCP.

>>12026506
He's using custom alloys and ITAR controlled. By definition that's not chink steel.

>>12026531
>in fact they produce the most rare earth metals
That's entirely due to shitty chink market dumping. We should put 500% tariffs on them.

>>12026296
>not calling themselves 'Chinkspace'
Missed opportunity

>>12026554
Ouch.

>>12026544
It’s due to RNG hocus pocus geology. They got lucky. I’m not too familiar with the economics of China, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they market dumped all the stuff they have

>>12026404
Ethnically separated colonies governed by a meritocratic fascist planetary government, service guarantees citizenship, no niggers or chinks allowed.

>>12026570
I absolutely LOVE the starship troopers idea of service for citizenship. I know that movie was supposed to be ironic, but it was also in the book wasn’t it?

>>12025520
>MK3 (Vaccinated)
>MK4 (Clamped)
>MK5 (Brominated)
>Test Tank 3 (Chlorinated)
>Test Tank 4 (Irradiated)
>Test Tank 5 (Blacked)
>SN5 (Bleached)
>SN6 (12% Sub-Saharan Admixture)
>SN8 (White Genocided)
>SN9 (Holohoaxed)

REAL EYES REALIZE REAL LIES

>>12026586
Yes, if you haven't read the book then do so immediately. Infinitely superior to the movie.

Road closure updated slightly. Its now a day earlier, on sunday.

[more] SRB's

>>12026586
The director didn’t even read the book, but it’s very good and invented the idea of power armor.

now this is cool

>>12026626
What's in the fairing?
>inb4 more fucking hydrogen

>>12026612
>>12026626
what is this larp?

>>12026531
>>12026544
>>12026564
Its even worse than that.
https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2019/11/12/the-collapse-of-american-rare-earth-mining-and-lessons-learned/

>>12026612
moon space shuttles are a terrible idea

>>12026635
>By 2002, however, the mine was defunct. In the eyes of the U.S. government and major manufacturers, it no longer made sense to acquire rare earths from a U.S. source subject to stringent environmental regulations. Instead, the hard business of extracting useful minerals was exported to other countries, where environmental damage was safely out of sight.
Environiggers get the rope.

>>12026639
at least we're doing our bit to save the earth :^)

>>12026635
>>12026639
>>12026642
we should just mine the moon

>>12026517
But do Chinese space startups use Chinese steel?

>>12026645
The moon has a lot of useful industrial properties, especially for shit that needs artificial vacuums on Earth like semiconductor manufacturing.

>>12026649
Why do you think they keep exploding?

>>12026649
They're Chinese. They can navigate the fly-by-nights better than a Gwailo can.

>>12026404
It'll be like the 13 colonies before independence, where there's a far away power with de jure authority, but the colonists run their own shit de facto because there's no realistic alternative

t. I'm a political scientist and this is the only time I will ever be useful in one of these threads

>>12026654
>political scientist
eyy draw us up an equation for city council elections foureyes

>>12026654
>t. I'm a political scientist

Hi, could you please swap the combo fries out for onion rings? Cheers mate.

>>12026660
There's actual math but I've forgotten how to do most of it.

>>12026654
in your opinion, how much development will have to occur before Mars goes completely independent? on the order of magnitude around 10,000 or 100,000 or would it have to be way higher like 10 million +

>>12026639
We will really save the environment when the REM mining ruins 1/3 of all Chinese water and they go Tibetan plateau to get more.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-wrestles-with-the-toxic-aftermath-of-rare-earth-mining

>>12026654
>t. I'm a political scientist
Yeah that's nice, can I have my pizza now?

>>12026544
no, we should stockpile their ore so that their reserves close to the Earth's surface are depleted and ours aren't.
>>12026645
We can do it now, it's just cheaper to mine on Earth, and it will stay that way after Starship comes online. Once all easily accessible deposits are depleted then moon mining will become viable.
>>12026670
>they go Tibetan plateau to get more
They do this already, they use large amounts of water from the Mekong river. It pisses off other countries that rely on the Mekong.

>>12026629
It's a centaur upper stage to propel the shuttle to the moon

S S T O

>>12026686
Too small.

>>12026689
too big

>>12026685
SO IT IS MORE FUCKING HYDROGEN

>>12026689
>meme technology
yawn

>>12026689
>liquid hydrogen

When will this meme fuel fuck off

>>12026562
So taking him at his word we can finally lay to rest that BS about them burning through several engines every flight. Then again they do need to crawl into the engines and clean them up thoroughly after every time, which isn‘t exactly rapid reuse without refurbishment either.
So we know that now.

>>12026635
Environmentalists should be killed

>>12026684
I agree with the sentiment of use theirs first. Problem is dependence, looks like we might be thinking about that.
https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2020/05/18/pentagon-legislation-aims-to-end-dependence-on-china-for-rare-earth-minerals/

>>12026689
>liquid hydromeme fuel
>cooling your reactor components with hydromeme
>space shuttle components

Into the trash it goes.

>>12026703
Its pretty much what we have been saying here all along, fuck all refurb needed except for where coking is bad and for the turbopumps, raptor pretty eliminates those issues.

Is this a counter to the russian space gun test?
https://www.defensenews.com/battlefield-tech/space/2020/08/18/space-force-to-begin-sharing-technical-space-data-with-uk/?utm_source=clavis

Can you wank the cock in space?

Good god we take this planet for granted.

If Earth was a super planet we would never be able to leave the surface, it would take more than the Saturn 5 to reach orbit.

>>12026728
Actually our gravity is bullshit high as it is, imagine if we had Mars gravity. Rocketry would be so fucking easy.

>>12026725
how many times is this gonna be asked?

>>12026728
Many moons are more massive than Luna but have weaker surface gravity because of their greater diameter

>space mining
I recently stumbled upon this asteroid mining company called "trans astronautica corp" and they seem to have a plausible mission concept and actual tech being developed and tested. their main thing is using giant ass solar collectors to vaporize rocks and for their propulsion systems, and one of their spacecraft is being designed to launch on starship. What do you guys think?
https://www.transastracorp.com/

>you can't get a boner in space because of gravity
yeah that's bullshit, all of the astronauts are 50 year old men, that's why

send me up there and I will clap all of the ugly, suspiciously jewish, female astronauts black and blue

>>12026728
Imagine developing a high level of intelligence and sentience on a purely ocean planet. Not only would there be no hope for rocketry, but even most basic forms of industry

>>12026750
Why wouldn't you be able to get hard? I don't understand, penis isn't lifted up due to gravity, that's due to blood pressure. If anything, it makes it easier to get erection in space.

>>12026734

That's a question I will always have, is it possible for a planet to have a gravity/mass lower than earth and still harbor humans?

>>12026751
>no Twitter or Facebook or 4channel faggotry and only swimming around with your mermaid bros
IDK sounds pretty based to me famalam

>>12026728
It would be completely possible to leave the surface of a super-Earf, however you'd have to advance your rocket technology significantly further. A super-Earth's version of Oppenheimer might have had a different opinion about a nuclear pulse propulsion rocket if it were the only way to get significant payloads into orbit. Imagine the space race but all of the competitors are using NPP and DUMBO type solid core tricarbide-groove-ring nuclear rockets.

>>12026749

Asteroid mining will be the next gold rush, but the main problems are:

1. Costs of launching something to an asteroid.
2. Somehow landing mined minerals on Earth without destroying them.
3. Making a profit out of it.

>>12026763
The 0g effects on the bodies of beings born in a super earth would be devastating.

Rocketry would only be probes and satellites.

>>12026769
>Muh gravity

Transhuman chads will be flexing so hard on terrans in the future

>>12026769
Or just immediately start spinning your hab for fake Gs.

>>12026728

How would the inhabitants of a planet with 2x earth's gravity and an atmosphere 10 times thicker than earth's achieve orbit?

>>12026769
Why would they waste time with tiny stations when the only rockets they could use to leave their world would be enormous?
You're not one of those absolutely braindead doomers, are you Anon?

>>12026275.
With technology of 2020 and the forseeable future?
Not going to happen, even building a non-starfighter SSTO is pushing the limits a lot, and that is ignoring the part where you enter the athmosphere with full tanks or have air breathing engines....

The only way I could think of to pull that off would be to send down additional boosters that don't come up to LEO again.

>>12025578
kek

This looks wrong

>>12026765
>1. Costs of launching something to an asteroid.
Reverse it, launch a probe with ion thrusters to get an asteroid into earth orbit and use stations in earth orbit for processing.
>2. Somehow landing mined minerals on Earth without destroying them.
Relatively easy, minerals and most raw materials can deal with high temperatures and impacts.
So a relatively small heatshield and a splashdown without or with minimal parachutes in shallow water is an option.
>3. Making a profit out of it.
Only sell the most profitable stuff, keep the rest for station-keeping and expansion.
But make no efforts in shit like iron or nickel unless you need that stuff in orbit.

>>12026811
But this looks correct.

>>12026811
>Tags: Size Difference, SS

>>12026776
I think that might be the use case for air-launch rockets or hybrid spaceplanes. I think it works out that conventional flight would actually be easier than on Earth, so they'd likely be aviation wizards compared to humanity. Also, in a 10x earth atmosphere, buoyancy-based aviation would be almost trivial, so balloon launch might have its uses.

>>12026811
>>12026815
That's just your brain fucking with you. There is no up or down in space.

>>12026822
Yes but its also mass balance, it intuitively looks more correct in the reversed image >>12026815

>>12026811
>>12026815
Couldn't that station be replaced by a wet-workshop starship?

>>12025520
SN7 was supposed to pop

>>12026751

The Monoliths chose Earth and Europa for practical reasons, and collapsed Jupiter for same.

>>12026826
Yes, a wet workshop Starship would equal probably a bit more than double the pressurized internal volume of the ISS. The normal crew starship without it's tanks converted is already slightly more than 1 ISS worth of space.

>>12026826
>>12026841
Lmao oldspace is a compete joke and waste of time

>>12026843
Let's be very honest again. We don't have a commercially available lunar station. Starship may someday come about. It's on the drawing board right now. Gateway is real. You've seen it down at Kennedy. We're building the PPE. We have all the HALO mock-ups done, ready to be put on the test stand at the SSPF .. I don't see any hardware for a Starship, except that he's going to build a stainless steel tube and put a Raptor on it. It's not that easy in rocketry.

>>12026852
Well, that copypasta may soon turn 180° when 2024 comes closer and FH is the only launch vehicle available for that kind of payload...

>>12025861
What if they rebuilt the Merlin 1D turbopump to use oxygen-tolerant alloys like in their Raptor engines, and after every flight just purged the turbine with hot oxygen gas to burn off the coking?

>>12026862
That would still be more expensive than building more Starships.

>>12026751
What’s wrong with that? Life in the modern world is genuinely not any better than hunter-gatherer life as far as wellbeing goes.

>>12026826
Yeah, but then all those contractors would be out of a job.

>>12026852
Who was like "Oh yeah I'm totally gonna smuggle an alphabet of fridge magnets to the ISS"?

>>12026872
It is by nearly every objective metric. There was a period in early human history that hunter gatherers lives longer and more healthy lives than agriculturists, but the game flipped in favor of civilization pretty quickly. You’ve probably got a point when it comes to more broad issues like existential meaning, though.

>>12026880
That is the ISS training replica in Houston. Notice them all standing on the floor

>>12026877
You say that like it would be an issue...

>>12026891
It is if you live in Huntsville.

>>12026881
Mmmm rampant depression, suicide, and extinction-level birthrates

>>12026665
It would have to be economically independent, and (more importantly) strong enough to fend off hostile expeditions from earthlings.

I imagine it'd be a while just because there are so many benefits to having close trade relations with earth. Imagine you've got a software bug in the greenhouse controls, and instead of having some dudes in an office in Palo Alto write some code for it and beam it up, you need to have all the code monkeys be on Mars.

Also, there will probably be competing American and Chinese colonies.

>>12026882
Aww fuck me I was completely focussed on the Alpha beta eta magnets. Didn't even see the floor

>>12026909
You can definitely make the case that the average citizen of a developed country having access to more luxuries than most pre-industrial monarchs has been bad for the human psyche. However, people are also living longer, healthier lives compared to even just a century ago, and the global standard of living has risen at an unprecedented rate.

>>12026882
>>12026923
not even an ISS trainer, its the Gateway HALO mockup

>>12026787
This, super Earth challenges would be even more advantageous for those who conquer them, you've basically leapfrogged into interplanetary flight by necessity

Look at us in comparison, some trips to the moon and, 40 years squandered in LEO and MUH NUKES BAD so no NPP engines, our relative ease of taking off from Earth has led to a slow crawl out of this godforsaken gravity well

>>12026904
I happen to not live there.

>>12026929
u wot m8?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Vehicle_Mockup_Facility

>>12026939
To be fair:
Nuclear propulsion in or below LEO would be a terrible idea and that's where >90% of manned missions take place.

>>12026952
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Station_Processing_Facility#/media/File:LOP-G_interior_with_Astronauts.jpg

you were saying

>>12026953
Yeah but how cool would it be to bust out of the gravity well of a super Earth riding atomic explosions all the way to orbit as a big fuck you to nature and the laws of physics

Botanists will become the #1 job in future space colonies/cities.

What is needed to be a botanist? Biology degree?

>>12026989
Vegans are unhealthy and weak.

>>12026992
Eating only plants isn't very healthy, true, but growing plants will still be required, even if it's only to create a healthy artificial ecosystem.

>>12026992
A gram of protein from beans is way easier to get than a gram of protein from most meats.

Tilapia is the only thing that comes close.

>>12026992

How the fuck would we bring cattle to Mars?

>>12026989
Not sure about real degrees, but setting up automated grow areas with raspberry pi's and sensors is a pretty established hobby.

>>12027018
I was thinking about this.

If I were smart and competent at stem, I would build a marijuana autogrower where you just add seeds and tap water and it does the rest. Sell it as a lettuce grower and have it be open source so some other guy (you but using a proxy) could leak drivers to reprogram it to grow weed.

That way I make some of the last dollars to be made before DUDE WEED gets legalized on a federal level, and I do it without breaking any laws.

>At an Aug. 17 meeting of NASA’s Planetary Science Advisory Committee, Lori Glaze, director of NASA’s planetary science division, said the Europa Clipper mission had recently discovered compatibility issues involving the Space Launch System, the vehicle preferred by Congress to launch the spacecraft.
>She did not elaborate on the compatibility issues regarding SLS. Such issues, industry sources say, likely involve the environment the spacecraft would experience during launch, such as vibrations.
oh no no no no no no...

>>12027011
Embryos in artificial wombs for the first round

>>12027011
Artificial wombs. We already can do that.

>>12027003
>Dude haha it’s way easier to get da protein
>weighs 86 pounds

>>12027045
lol no I'm a disgusting fatbody

my diet is 90% eggs and ground beef

That reminds me, chickens would be really useful on Mars if you could manage a zero G chicken coop for the year it takes to get over there.

>>12027035
OH NO

>>12026087
You mean Isp. What are you burning it with? Oxygen, probably. Isp will be slightly better than a pure aluminum-oxygen rocket, which gets like 200 Isp at best, so maybe 220 Isp? It'd be shitty because magnesium is a heavy atom compared to nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon.

>>12027003
how about crabs

Does NASA take Bezos seriously or is this just like, a courteous “consideration “

>>12027055
>0g chicken coop
IMAGINE the floaters

>>12027076
Considering that Blue Origin has a rocket factory being set up right now, I think NASA is serious with them.

>>12027070
Might be good.

They're used to living in cold water, so you wouldn't be losing a whole lot of energy to their body heat. They're garbage eaters, so you could definitely feed them food scraps and they'd probably be fine. They're aquatic, so zero G wouldn't be as much of an issue for them.

Them and some lobsters. I can see that working.

>>12027035
Imagine being such a shit engineer that you can’t make something unable to handle vibrating a bit

>>12027080
This is the problem with getting any non human animal to Mars.

I was thinking the ghetto solution would be to tether two starships together and spin them like a bolo to create ~1g

>>12027083
Frogs work. Frog eggs were fertilized and hatched in LEO

>>12025664

Starsector.

>>12027092
Only if it's the French space program.

>>12026926
>You can definitely make the case that the average citizen of a developed country having access to more luxuries than most pre-industrial monarchs has been bad for the human psyche.
I think the more pressing issue is having an elite class that isn't land-owning nobility or a samurai warrior class, but rather merely entertainers

>>12027087
yeah the only way I can see getting chickens to mars is either having some form of artificial gravity or figuring out how to delay egg development and hatching them when you get there, trying to manage chickens in 0g would be an absolute nightmare
not just the pooping every 30 seconds, but also dealing with feeding them and bits of chicken food and feathers and eggs floating everywhere and hens probably getting fucking pissed that they can't sit down on their nests properly

>>12027114
You could keep them in some kind of hellish chicken centrifuge.

But I really do like the idea of the artificial gravity bolo variant of the starship.

You have most missions be 0g, but a couple of missions get done with the improvised zero g set up to get all the animals there so agriculture and animal experiments can get started on Mars.

We'll name it "Noah's Ark"

>>12027120
send those chickens to gainzstation 13

>>12027124
Here's the real question.

Will gains station be purpose built, or will it just be a bunch of starships tied together?

>>12027128
yeah

>>12026268
Anyone else want to take a stab at how hot the preburners run inside Raptor?

We know that Raptor has three sets of double-redundant electric torch igniters, two pairs for the preburners and one pair for the main combustion chamber. What we can take away from this is the fact that both gas streams leaving either preburner must not be hot enough to auto-ignite on contact with each other when they flow into the main combustion chamber. This puts a relatively firm upper temperature bound for those gasses at 600 celsius. However, given that Raptor has failed to ignite the main combustion chamber before, it's likely that the gasses are actually significantly below the 600 degree upper bound, and are sitting at something more like 300 celsius. The preburners themselves will be hotter than the gas flow downstream, because as the gasses flow out of the preburner and across the turbines they will expand and cool off. In either preburner, the peak temperature they need to run at is determined by the amount of work the turbines need to extract by expanding the gasses, and the amount of pressure required after that work is done in order to be able to blow into the main combustion chamber.
Remember, in order to achieve ~300 bar inside the main combustion chamber, the preburner pressure needs to be around 800 bar as per Elon's tweet, nearly three times higher.
With everything I've considered here, I'd say that the peak temperature any materials need to handle inside the preburners of Raptor are no greater than 900 celsius, and could be lower still. As per reusability, once you have alloys that can handle those high temperatures and high pressures, you're golden, because methane does not form coking deposits even when decomposed under extreme heat (instead it forms CH3, CH2, and CH species, all of which are volatile, and decrease in probability of formation as the number of hydrogens goes down).

>>12026354
You'd be better off trying to develop high thrust aneutronic direct fusion engines, kid

>>12027143
>the decomposition of methane does not result in coking
oh, shit
methane for nuclear thermal rockets then please

>>12026438
EM launchers would work fine on any atmosphere-less world (the Moon and any Moon-sized objects except Titan, everything smaller, and also Mercury). They need to be long if you're launching people(~5 G limit), but if you're launching robotic spacecraft you can get away with a shorter track (~50 G limit), and for launching dumb payloads like solid slugs of metal or metal cans full of stuff you can pretty much ignore track length and just maximize acceleration (>5000 G limit, you break your railgun first). One issue with launching dumb payloads is that you can't launch them into orbit around the body they originate from, you need to launch them to escape velocity from your starting point into a stable orbit around a larger parent body (ie from Mercury to Solar orbit, from Moon to Earth orbit), or else you need to have a very reliable means of plucking those objects in freefall before they orbit back down to ground level.

>>12027070
If you modified current "ocean farming" techniques for artificial tanks you could also get kelp, mussels, and scallops out of it.

https://greenwave.org/

>>12027191
well, there we go

>>12027181
Frankly, it seems like a huge pain in the ass compared to TSTO reusables.

For the amount of effort it takes to fetch something from orbit around the sun, you could just fetch it from the Martian surface.

>>12027113
Get Tedpilled and Evolapilled

>>12026686
Reminder that if that exact vehicle (same outer mould line) if filled with densified methalox would have more than five times the wet mass, would only require maybe double the dry mass (reinforcements to thrust structure and tanks), and would get a greater delta V budget due to having a better wet-dry mass fraction even with the ~20% reduction in Isp due to switching to methane.
Switch to densified propalox and you make marginally better gains even still.

>>12026754
That's exactly what they don't want you to realize.
Penile erections are literally caused by contractions of the smooth muscle surrounding the veins that let blood flow OUT of the penis, meaning that an erection is caused simply by slowing down the rate that blood drains back into the circulatory system compared to the rate at which it is being pumped into the penis.

>>12026760
Sure, maybe not naturally, but engineering challenges are solvable. If Mars gravity isn't good enough for people to live their whole lives and reproduce in, then we will literally just build rotating space habitats around Mars using Phobos for building material; Phobos alone masses much more than would be necessary to build a fleet of habitats with a combined habitable living area greater than the entire surface of Earth, oceans and all.

>>12026868
Sure, I just mean in the mean time, it seems like it would be a relatively easy upgrade to make that would eliminate the more time consuming and annoying part of Falcon 9 booster reuse.

>>12026992
Food chains are based on plants, dude. Grow weedy (read:hardy and adaptable) plants to feed grasshoppers to feed to chickens to give you eggs to eat for breakfast, grow high yield crops like sweet potatoes as your dietary staple, raise filter feeding fish that are fed algae which itself is fed with nutrients in waste water, etc etc.

Just as long as you don't start eating bugs, you fucking freak.

>>12027241
>not eating the legs
ngmi

>>12027035
HA
Imagine, not only has SLS STILL not launched after all these years despite billions, it probably can't even launch the sensitive gorillion-dollar spacecrafts it was meant to launch in the first place!
I swear to god if Starship weren't just around the corner I'd go on a road trip to find that big orange piece of shit and blast it with a few dozen shotgun rounds in minecraft

So be real with me, manned mission to Mars? Nah? Or yah?

>>12027204
The idea of using EM launchers to fire things into space is that you're using them exactly where you're picking them up. So, you aren't exactly picking things up, you're firing them to their final destination in the first place.

>>12027263
Depends
>manned mission to Mars through NASA's roadmap
Literally never, even given infinite funding
>manned mission to Mars using SpaceX's roadmap with zero outside support
unlikely, but actually possible
>manned mission to Mars using SpaceX's roadmap, and NASA eventually takes the hint and starts directly supporting Starship to Mars
Most probable in my opinion, and in fact seems more or less inevitable

>>12027264
Yeah, but who wants stuff in interplanetary space anyway?

The cool bits are planets or the orbits around planets.

>>12027263
Prolly by 2030 yeah.

>>12027263
Can you speak in full sentences? What's the question?

>>12026992
>>12027001
Then why do vegans live longer than meat eaters?

>>12027271
More like
>Massive private sector investment in space as SpaceX and possibly Blue Origin prove that space has significant value.
>Government organizations like NASA and Roscosmos get left in the dust, continue sluggishly building one or two rockets two generations outmoded from everything else but mostly focusing on probes and high quality telescopes.
>China builds a tin can space station with some Russian addon modules, declares absolute space supremacy over dying western powers, station gets sideswiped by a giant stainless steel private sector behemoth 18m ship and destroyed entirely.

>>12027282
>>China builds a tin can space station with some Russian addon modules, declares absolute space supremacy over dying western powers, station gets sideswiped by a giant stainless steel private sector behemoth 18m ship and destroyed entirely.
Don't forget to blast this on every Chinese radio band at once while you do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgUwKZk1pqA

>>12026570
All fascist deserve to be thrown into the same pit as the commies

>>12027271
thanks here's my only smart guy pic

>>12027272
>Yeah, but who wants stuff in interplanetary space anyway?
Eventually, the people living in orbital habitats going around the Sun will be the supermajority of all humans in the Solar system, something like 99,999 out of 100,000 people will live on Solar orbitals. That's not to say the populations on and orbiting the planets won't be large, it's just that solar orbitals could easily support quadrillions of people even just working with the asteroid belt's resources. Once you start considering disassembling planets you can fit many quintillions of people in Solar orbit.

>>12026630
Unused Independence Day props

>>12027274
Do they? I've never met a vegan who didn't look emaciated to the point of being on the edge of starvation. So far as I know humans are preferential carnivores with omivorous capability as indicated by our relatively short and uncomplicated gut, large forward facing eyes, large brain to body mass ratio, and combination of pointed, semi-pointed and flat dentition, with special adaptations for long endurance running and heat exchange allowing for the easy pursuit of prey animals especially in hot climates.

>>12027295
I doubt it desu

too hard to keep air and water around.

Planets are just so easy to live in that it would probably be easier to start colonizing other planets than create permanent colonies in interplanetary space. Unless you have Van Neumann machines to do all of the work.

>>12027311
You don't need full von-neumann machines to do things like build dyson swarms and large scale orbitals. Humans can still be involved in decision making, goal setting, final quality control, etc. If you have the technology to easily begin colonizing and exploiting a planet in Sol system (all of them but Earth require total environment control to live on), then you also have the technology necessary to create a large permanent or semi-permanent orbital habitat. The only thing extra you will need is more experience with large scale zero-gee construction, this practice can easily be undertaken in LEO first, especially with the advent of reusable superheavy lift vehicles which can deliver substantial cargoes there. A couple tens of tons of I-beams and a prototype zero gravity welding and manipulator robot could give us most of the experience we'd need to create very large pressurized volumes in space.

ghettostation 1 reporting in

>>12027321
I don't see a station, just two capsules touching tips.

>>12027286
Fascism is good.

>>12027321
use that new capsules mod to recreate Big G + MOL

>>12025609
Basically just ss13

>>12027263
By 2024, 10-20%, 2026 50%, 2029 90%

>>12027263
Anything before 2030 depends PURELY on SpaceX. No one else has ambitions until 2030s or 40s. And those are only there because of SpaceX

t-t-thanks, Nomadd

>>12027349
kek