/sci/ - Science & Math

fuck urf

>>12021797
Its at pad

>>12021808

Here's the SN40(?) that reached 330 bar chamber pressure

>>12021797
Hopefully they clean up the plumbing for later versions.

>>12021804
Intensely based post.

I hate Boeing so so so fucking much

>>12021804
feels good to see my doodle resurface once in a while

>>12021797
>hop tomorrow
Another short one?

>>12021841
So say we all.

>>12021851
Yeah, they might do few more 150m hops throughout the next 2 weeks. They have TFR for 2 weeks. Once they're happy, they'll move to 20km

>>12021821
If anything, it means that Raptor can definitely run at 300 Bar without exploding. A 10% margin is great.

>>12021862
Yep, and they're already moving to iterate over this 330 variant. They'll go as much as they can push it for stable and then bring it down 10% for operational. If they hit 360 by next year, they'll have a comfortable 320 bar for operations.

>>12021821
Didn't Roscosmos claim that their RD-180 can go higher than that, but they don't do it for safety concerns?

>>12021867
>320 Bar Raptor
AHHHHHHHHHH FUCKKKK IM COOOOOMING

>>12021851
0% chance of a hop tomorrow. Idk why OP said that. We don't even have a road closure scheduled for the static fire yet

>>12021879
Yeah I mean expect a static fire NET Sunday or something and hop NET some time next werk

>>12021903
And just as I say that they post new closures. Looking good for a hop before September

Anyone else notice something moving on the Merlin vac engine during the launch? Looked like pieces of something were falling off.

>>12018463
blows me away how aesthetic KSP looks now, are you using parts mods?

>>12021878
what does it actually mean>>12021821
for non rocket-science fags

>>12021876
Higher than 330? I'm not sure if they said that, but I'm pretty sure the "safety concerns" are it exploding.

>>12021970
Welcome to every launch SpaceX has done.
There is a ring around the base of the Merlin Vac bellhouse to keep its shape during launch, and its normal to fly off.
Otherwise its chunks of ice.

>>12021979
Higher chamber pressure = better performing engine. 330 bar is the world record (unless Russia had some secret RD-170 development that they conveniently never told anyone) which then makes the Raptor among the highest performing rocket engines in the world, if not the highest.

"ULA rocket":
Main engines from Blue Orgin
SRB from Northrop Grumman
Second state engines from Aerojet Rocketdyne
Fairing from RUAG

>>12021511
>Man, one hurricane will destroy it.

This, and all their Starship eggs are in one basket right now, are there any hurricane contingencies planned for Boca Chica? It's hurricane season soon

>>12021876
as material science improves you can have higher heat and chamber pressures. Old shit with older materials will obviously have relevant safety limits.

Plus there is steady-state vs peak or burst. You might be able to go above 330 for X seconds or minutes, but exceeding this time would be unsafe.

>>12021998
it's not called an alliance for nothing

>>12021998
gross

>>12021984
I vaguely remember back when SpaceX boasted about how they're going to make the Raptor reach 300 bar, and then Roscosmos generally responded with "Well ackchyually we already have an engine that can go that high, we just never ran it that high because stuff."

>>12021824
>$50 million dollar climate controlled transporter? Fuck that, tie it to a skid and forklift it over there.

>>12021970
Oxygen ice crystals sliding around, happens literally every time

>>12021821
>over 15 seconds running comfortably above 300 bar chamber pressure
bruh

>>12021999
They just dealt with a hurricane. I really doubt a bunch of engineers forgot about high winds affecting their structures

>>12021824
This thing is 1500kg, heavier than the pickup behind it.

>>12021998
Le 52% American parts rocket face.

>>12021998
its gonna blow up isnt it

>>12022062
Good point but it doesnt hurt to be more prepared especially for a possible onslaught of hurricanes, but the fact that they centralized Starship efforts to one location was a smart idea compared to the competition they had before

>>12022068
isn't an f250 like 6000 pounds?

>>12021970
>Anyone else notice something moving on the Merlin vac engine during the launch?
The mice? They're always there. You'd think that SpaceX could afford a studio cat or two, but no. Cheap bastards.

>>12021824
I love how informal Starship and Raptor are. Like the gateway to mars is literally built in a field with a box of scraps.

If anything though it shows how robust the system is, which is good. SN5 and it’s Raptor survived a hurricane and flew like a week later

>>12022103
It's not built with scraps, steel rolls are brought in every other day.

>>12022087
Yeah, I guess the storm surge would be the biggest worry. Luckily you know at least a few days in advance if a big storm is going to hit so they'd have plenty of time to secure all the expensive robots and other equipment

>no space cutie gf
:(

>>12022126
>he doesn't know about the ULA weather machines

oh no no no

>>12022156
Be like Oscar, maybe you get one

>>12021842
They're really good doodles. /sfg/ is the first place I've seen themed Yotsuba OC in years.

>>12022176
picture small

>>12022156
she is so hot bros

>>12021999
>can survive max Q
>can't survive a little wind on the ground

>>12022117
it's an iron man reference

>>12022310
Zoom and enhance initializing now

>>12022320
>what are support facilities
>what is that rickety shack they are building
>what is storm surge and flooding

>>12022346
CHAD AeroSPIKE vs virgin hidden nozzle

>>12022327
The facility has developed enough to the point where it's not really a fair comparison.

>>12021797
No hop tomorrow. That's next week. Mon-Tues-Wednesday.

>>12022369
those are for static fire

>>12022372
Which could evolve into hop after few hours or a day. You can't count out how comfortable SpaceX is with their results.

>>12022318
Oh great! It's yandere time,
>fiR3 T##*EEEEE I#=#=#CbMS!

>>12022359
They would repair any damage in like a month tops. They have like 500 people building shit out there.

>>12022365
MS-104 Aerostar When...

Does anyone have that Oompa Loompa song we made?

>>12022385
I KNEW Jessie was a shapeshifting nightstalker all along!

Lads
SpaceX is really doing it, aren't they?

>>12022408
Yes, they're actually going to build a pr*p*ll*nt d*p*t. May God have mercy on their souls.

>>12022309

>>12022408
All because Elon is an autist with billions to spend
And people still complain about capitalism

>>12022417
Communists aren't people.

>>12022126
I wonder if the whole site will be encircled by protective earth berms at some point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haX0ACElUQc&t=1m37s

>>12021797
I'm getting legit excited seeing SN6 pass cryo test yesterday, and No Fly zone tomorrow.
Looks, like they passed a major hurdle by flying SN5.

>>12022446
looks like they found the next hurdle, because they're flying SN6 instead of going on to SN8

>>12022446
Optimism really expanded after SN5 flew. SpaceX needed that. Remember the dark ages when Starship would always just blow up during pressure tests? It was like that for 6 months.

>>12022448
Well SN8 isn't ready, so they might as well get data.

>>12022449
I have to admit, my optimism level was very low after all those cans exploded.

>>12022408
I think it's the most interesting and significant thing for humanity happening in the whole world, but the average person has no clue. Too old myself but it would be nice to think the next generation or their children might see real exploration of the solar system

>>12022444
Well if they do that they better fly out Dutch engineers and not whoever was in charge of the levees in Louisiana

>>12022408
They are.
Unfortunately it's not ITS yet.
It's gonna be hard building anything on Mars if you don't get 500 tons to orbit.

>>12022449
>It was like that for 6 months.
Year.

>>12022417
It's ridiculous - think how many people he's employing, and all kinds of jobs from extremely highly skilled down to fork lift driver etc. He could have retired in the early 2000s FFS. And Starlink could as a side benefit bring decent Internet access to millions of the world's poorest people. And Tesla could help facilitate a switch away from fossil fuels thus hurting some really nasty regimes, which is always a good thing. And SpaceX could help humanity towards the colonisation of space, which would a glorious demonstration of our ingenuity and will as a species. You'd think that might be enough. But no! Fucking retards bitch and moan, then go and watch fantasy and sci fi etc and don't see the irony

>>12022468
Yes you can. A person requires about a ton of food per year. 1000 people on mars (let’s be conservative) need 1000 tons of food a year, plus maybe 1000 tons of supplies and stuff for setting up based. 2000 tons of cargo to Mars requires 20 starships. It takes 5 tanker flights and 1 Cargo Starship flight to send 100 tons of cargo to Mars.

Therefore to support 1000 people on Mars you’d need 120 Starship flights a year. A lot but doable especially if SpaceX gets Boca Chica up and running as a spaceport.

>>12022462
Not on quite the same scale though is it? I guess they'd only need to protect the most important parts

>>12022489
Yeah, sure.
But it's gonna be so cramped space. It's never gonna be able to 100 people. 50 max.

Is it true that spacex copied some old soviet designs for their raptor engine?

>>12022495
Not at the moment, but imagine but what Boca Chica will look in a few decades. Maybe like this but with a Starship gigafactory down the road

One day we'll build the first true spaceship that will never touch an atmosphere

>>12022507
no, the predecessor to the Raptor (like FASTRAC for the Merlin) was the Integrated Powerhead Demonstrator
the Soviets built a hypergolic FFSC engine at one point but they never really got it working completely (I think they made it too big and it kept exploding)

>>12021913
my bet is hop on 31.8

>>12022521
>No lander

>>12022526
muh Apollo 8

>>12022516
Soviets made first methane engines.

So, with the highbay being constructed, I guess they'll be starting super-heavy production soon.
But how the hell do you test that?

>>12022527
We already made so much photos of Mars from ground and orbit.

>>12022534
Gotta make some more then!

But nah this would be better for a manned Venus flyby

>>12022532
Its easy just stack them

>>12022507
I don't think so given that the Soviets only made one FFSC engine, and that was back in the 60s-70s. SpaceX might have done some research into the Soviet magic metals used in ORSC engines like the RD-180 since such metals are also needed for a FFSC engine, but the design for the Raptor is most likely mostly unique.

>>12022542
Nah, it's not that easy.
You absolutely need a flame trench as sn5 flight proved, if you don't want to damage ground equipment or ground itself.
And that was only one engine.

Chinese manned landing on Mars not for the purpose of China-shilling but to intimidate NASA into doing more space exploration lest the Solar System become a Chinese one!

Why don't we use higher performance by volume fuels like hydrazine for first stages?
The higher density over methane or even hydrogen would sure allow for smaller, lighter tanks and it can be used as a monopropellant.

>>12022554
lithium-fluorine-hydrogen systems are the future. LiF is magic

>>12022550
They're building one right now

>>12022488
Yeah but he said a bad word on twitter and his dad owned shares in a mine so that makes Space Man Bad.

>>12022509

>>12022564
>Ghislaine_photobomb.jpg

>>12022526
You send the cargo in a separate stack, two launches for cargo and transfer stage,

>>12022532
you can do SN5 and SN6 style hop tests with it, then jump it up to a height that requires an engine relight, then do the mission profile (on reduced engine count and fuel load) to test aero, then do the same thing with a huge honking mass simulator on front and chuck it into the ocean
of course, you could always test that last one with a Starship

>>12022565
That's a lander also some burnt up in the Earth's atmosphere so it doesn't count :^)

>>12022565
the OG SSTO. Man what a phenomenal machine.

>>12022561
Reminder that they'll need to do that on Mars too. Think about it.

>>12022516
This main problem with the soviet program was that one man had too much control. When he died, things went to shit.

>>12022565
19 fucking 69

>>12022570
I'm thinking more about the damage engines will do. That single Raptor ripped the concrete ground out of the way.

>>12022570
They might do SN5 style hops and then go to a few kilometers before deciding to land it Falcon 9 style, and by that I mean just attempting to land them after orbital launch attempts

>>12022574
There won't be any Superheavies on Mars. A Starship launching from the Martian surface will require much less thrust

>>12022571
>landers aren't spacecraft
nigger
>>12022575
the main problem with the Soviet program was that they killed Korolev
>>12022578
the first tests will be with one engine
the engine relight tests will be with multiple engines and so will leave the ground much faster
>>12022584
yeah that's always an option

>>12022587
Well, you know, looks like a single Raptor is enough to damage even ground, so maybe you'd want a divert trench over there as well.

>>12022574
Only for Starships built on Mars. The LZs for arriving ships will get burned on the way down.

>>12022584
No, I think they'll do taller hops to work out the aerodynamic controls without needing to have the heatshield 100% ready. 20km gets you fin control and the backflip burn.

>>12022600
SH doesn't need a heatshield. Heck the grid fins are gonna be steel

>>12022600
Dude, Starships are supposed to fly back from Mars.

>>12022565

>colony on mars is going alright
>disappears one day
>CROATOAN engraved on the side of a martian hill

>>12022612
>have to do an EVA with your suitcase full of moon rocks to get back in the return vehicle
damnnit soviets

>>12022618
Most kerbal space pogrom.

>>12022604
SN5 already had partial tiles for the last hop.

>>12022615
Godamn redskins

>>12022644
incredibly racist

>>12022644
>Goes KABOOOM because of one micrometeor

>>12022651
>>12022644
imagine the first fuel leak in space

https://twitter.com/ElonJet/status/1295191439798947845
elon is back in boca

>>12022508
I think the residents will get super pissed when their windows keep breaking from 31 raptors so SpaceX will do mostly barge launches.

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1295826841853403139

AHAAHAHAHHAHAHA NORTHCOPE BTFO
SOLIDS BTFO

>>12022667

>>12022669
F for offshoot Ares-I.

>>12022677
D O C K W I S E

>>12022667
There are no residents left

>was literally thinking last night how lame it would be if we get a Mars mission but it happens entirely from the cameras within and maybe outside on the ship but you will never actually see the ship as a whole
>today find out about this company that wants to do just that and actually film all that shit as it happens

https://sen.com/

This is fucking cool, they even want to deploy a camera sat over the moon and film the Apollo landers, finally we can shut up fucking conspiracyfags for good

>>12022722

Speaking of aerospikes, if we had an elastic fabric with the necessary capabilities to withstand the environment, or used panel cladding, could we create an altitude adaptive nozzle that stretches for vacuum use and maybe even twists offcenter for vectoring or even use jetboat like channelling shovels for reverse thrust?

I made this little sketch and put it on the legit looking paper (I have no idea what I'm doing lol)

>>12022722
>they even want to deploy a camera sat over the moon and film the Apollo landers, finally we can shut up fucking conspiracyfags for good
They would just claim it was another hoax. People who deny the moon landings at this point should be rendered into their component elements for rocket parts.

>>12022738
The frustrating this is even if Artemis happens these nutters would probably still claim Apollo was a hoax and this is the real deal, just to never admit they were wrong

MUH VAN ALLEN BELTS

>>12022722
Sat photos of the landing sites have been around forever but those never shut those fags up, future moon landing deniers will be shitposting from Mars about how *ACKSHUALLY* the first moon landing was 2026, muh cardboard landers and Kubrick.

>>12022743
Anyone who denies the moon landings shouldn't be allowed to get on a rocket.

>>12022743
I wanna see really close up images like in that pic >>12022727

>>12022721
I thought there were 3 that haven't sold yet. I'm sure the town nearby wouldn't want 120 sonic booms a day.

>>12022745
They should be allowed to get on their own rockets, that's been working out well lol.
>>12022746
That would definitely be cool. I wonder how low they could get it to pass while still on orbit?

>>12022722
>>12022727
Wait why don't we have RCS drones yet?

>>12022743
Their descendants will come up with Flat Mars and say Earth is fake

>try to do some (very rough) sizing calculations for an atomic space warship
>it ends up being more massive than Yamato
>it's propellant mass is an Iowa and a tenth
Did I mess up somewhere? That feels incredibly high.

pic semi-related

>>12022722
How does that play out? They pay SpaceX to film their missions? Why doesn't SpaceX just do that themselves?

>>12022763
Fun fact no one believed Earth was flat since Antiquity. People believed Sun orbited Earth though.

>>12022560
I was more thinking about hydrazine+ClF3, so you don't have to worey about stuff like ignition, combustion instabilities or so.

>>12022769
uh no they pay NASA to film their missions because NASA will be first to Mars...

>>12022771
there won't be anything left to worry about if you use ClF3

>>12022773
based

>>12022764
No, that sounds about right. Spaceships that have armor a guy with a hatchet can't get through are monstrously heavy, and the rocket equation is a bitch. It's why all the military scifi types really, really want reactionless drives or semi-magic torch drives.

>>12022722
>that video on their home page
holy kino. Imagine starship dumps an assload of those 4k camsats in moon or mars orbit and timed their flyovers with landings

>>12022733
We can't even manage the heat with solid aerospikes, so it's unlikely to work with ones made from fabric....

>>12022776
That's why you need to be carefull when handling it.
Also the nozzle and combustion chamber could be made from asbestos reinforced phenol resin and ablate to withstand the temperatures and corosive enviroment.

>>12022763
Earth IS fake and gay

>>12022764
nigga just launch an orion battleship lol

>>12022788
And If we flooded the nozzle with super chilled liquid oxygen?

>>12022811
Then just let it out the back and run lox-rich lol.

>>12022327
then dont misuse the word literally :^)

>>12022812
Fast burn=much heat=much fuel flow=much cooling
Slow burn:`=low heat=low fuel flow=low cooling

>>12022811
Oxygen+fabric+ignition source=boom
But we could maybe use asbestos fabric for that...

>>12022834
Asbestos lined nanotube Kevlar it is!
Plus:
The business end of the thing on start up would look like the liquid T-800 series terminator in that one scene from Judgement day where he does that stab thing with his fingers.

New fairing catch pic from Elon.

>>12022834
That's how you get space-mesothelioma

>>12022845
If I got my hands on one of these fairings stranding on my beach, I'd hook an outboard motor to it to see how it handles.

>>12022853
I'd turn one over and make it into a little toolshed.

>>12022815
he didn't, the word now has more than one meaning now, and he was using the second

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

b—used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description

>>12022849
still better than pandorum...
Or picking the economy trim level that doesn't come with the gellarfield generator.

>>12022855
That's even better!

>>12022849
or spaceaids

>>12022843
>Kevlar
Not exactly a great idea, it doesn't like high temperatures.
Asbestos fabric should do the job, however I'd rather inject the fuel from the nozzle and have it in liquid form to evaporate through the asbestos fabric.
In addition to that hydrazine as a fuel may shrink your fueltanks, so you can build an SSTO.
>>12022849
You shouldn't breathe rocket-exaust.
Standing under the nozzle of an operational rocket engine tends to decrease your life expectancy to a point where cancer is not at all an issue.

>>12022855
A toolshed that you could almost drive a city bus into. That fucker could be a house.

This is the best use of wiki markup ever:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOOSE

>falling from orbit protected by nothing more than a spacesuit and a bag of foam was unlikely to ever become a particularly safe—or enticing—maneuver.[citation needed]

>>12022887
fucking hell

>>12022878
Yeah as I said, I don't know jack shit. I just wanted to say nanotubes and am too much of a contrarian hipster to use carbon. Asbestos fabric it is.
As for the safety concerns, we can put a warning sticker on the point of the nozzle to inform people of the hazards.

>>12022893
Reminds me of that crash foam in demolition man

>>12022908
Maybe we should look into more potent oxydizers as well.
ClF3 for example is the second most potent oxydizer, but the most potent you can actualy handle relatively safely.
Combined with hydrazine, you have a room-temperature stable fuel and oxydizer.
Bet of all:
It's denser than liquid methane+oxygen while having a good specific impulse and beeing hypergolic, meaning no ignition required.

>>12022893
>>12022887
Astronaut BBQ cooker now with optional ground beef option.

News!

https://spacewatch.global/2020/07/sierra-nevada-corporation-selected-by-the-department-of-defense-to-design-develop-unmanned-orbital-outpost-prototype/
https://spacewatch.global/2020/05/sierra-nevada-corporations-shooting-star-transport-vehicle-readies-for-integration/

>>12022887
Of course my boy the LESS is in the "see also" section.
>Oh, you're looking at zany early spaceflight concepts? Check out this other crazy shit.

>>12022881
Hello new garage then

>>12022934
>ClF3
>you can actualy handle relatively safely.
Choose exactly one.

>>12022940
My life will not be complete until I fly manual to lunar orbit with nothing but a timer, a clinometer, and a reference chart.

>>12022934
>ClF3 for example is the second most potent oxydizer, but the most potent you can actualy handle relatively safely.
Hello. It seems you have put chlorine "oh my god the fire is on fucking fire" trifluoride in the same sentence as the word "safe". Please never do this ever again.

>>12022944
Well, compared to the even more potent oxydizers it is rather safe to handle, given that the fluorination process of all components has been done correctly.
But indeed, I suppose that it is not safe enough to give it children to play with.

>>12022957
Well, it certainly is a potent oxydizer and the ability to further oxydize C02 is a side effect of said potence.
And in case of a rocket engine, you absolutely need a potent oxydizer...

when's the next hop

>>12022773
>because NASA will be first to Mars...
how will NASA react to SpaceX sending humans to mars anyways? will they do their own mars missions regardless of what SpaceX does?

>>12022968

>>12022509
>entire ship body is made out of struts
>2 separate hydrogen tanks
>no visible pipe connecting tanks
>chad shadow shield
>not using reactor as secondary exhaust/engine source
>TH module is probably inflatable, sucks to be an astronaut aboard a metal drumstick

>>12022992
no windows/cupolas is one of the downsides of inflatables

>>12022995
add a small tin can module with windows

>>12022934
One of the researchers at the department I work in wanted to do some work that involved fluorine gas. It took him more than a year to square away all the permits and auxiliary equipment that were necessary to convince the university he wouldn't kill everyone in the building by working with it.
When the gas bottle itself arrived, it was small enough that I don't think it reached my knee. And yet, it came strapped in to its own dolly like Hannibal Lecter, and that dolly was inside a 6 foot tall fucking steel cage. And that's just for normal fluorine.
"Relatively safe"

>>12022986
They might purchase Starship as with lunar mission, but it also could impact its development. Would be crazy if there were two separate Starships made for Mars by NASA and Spacex.

>>12022509
Gotta go bigger and more vasimemey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74EyAEsUlk0

I like this dude's channel, cool animations like Haze, but with more in-space stuff.

>>12022934
Sounds fantastic, since we are tossing out the GE J79 turbojet, we have quiet a bit of space for that, plus the tiptanks. Is there any use for the air intakes anymore? I'm not 100% sure, but Mars doesn't even have air to use as an atmospheric oxidizer.

>>12023005
VASIMR is such a disgusting power hog that even an emdrive would be better.

>>12023010
Recessed gunports.

>>12022998
Well, it's not sitting long in the tanks and if an oxygen tank of your rocket ruptures mid-flight, you're just as dead as when a ClF3 tank ruptures.
So why give up the additional performance?

>>12022942
They could kind of try to sell garages as merch. They wouldn't even look shitty next to modern buildings. I can see teslafags buying these. desu

>>12023017
Oooouh I like it.

>>12023029
>yeah I keep my boat in a shiny quonset hut
>a quonset hut that's been TO SPACE and PARACHUTED INTO THE OCEAN
I would absolutely use one of these if I had the money.

>>12023010
>F-104
There is a saying in germany:
>How do you buy a Starfighter?
Simple, buy a field and wait a few days...

However on the other hand, by using ClF3 as and oxydizer and the martian CO2 as a fuel in a special engine, there might be the possibility of launching a jet on Mars...

But I'd ditch the seat that ejects down in favor of one that ejects up and replace the hydraulics because these where MAJOR flaws of the F-104...

>>12023017
>>12023005

>>12022969
Anon, I... Let's just put it this way: even if you somehow survive, it will dissolve your bones. From inside. It's a calcium seeker. On a completely unrelated note, have you ever seen sand burning?

>>12023017
How about some magneto-inertial fusion then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRL1lS6kKmg

soon

>>12022893
reminds me of those super low-mass ksp missions where the kerbal deorbits during eva to get back to the ksc

>>12023083
What's SpessX gonna launch from there?

>>12023083
who?

>>12023096
it's a Bezos pad

>>12023010
>>12023035
Dual Gau103 with approximately 20000rds and enough recoil to reduce about 1'3rd of it's Delta-V with full tanks
We can also turn it into a missile barge, but I like cannons better.

And yes, they are all Tracer!

>>12023101
who?

>>12023070
Well, I sure reccomend to *not* drink rocket fuels or oxydizers.
Using drinkable fuel had been a major problem in the development, production and operation of the V-2 missile as a lot of the ethanol fuel "evaporated" into engineers.

>>12022811
Don't use fabric, use flexible alloy to manufacture a double-wall nozzle with coolant channels and weld it to the moving support structures inside the spike. The thing is, because of the bigger ratio of nozzle surface area to propellant mass flow, the heat problems are going to be hard to solve regardless.
Specifically, while a bell nozzle only has a small area of wall that is exposed to the exhaust gasses at maximum temperature, the aerospike effectively takes that small nozzle throat and combustion chamber and unwraps it into a linear combustion chamber and 'throat, greatly increasing the total thermal flux into the hard structures of the engine. This is why aerospikes will forever be much more difficult to keep cool.
On the flip side however, the exact same fundamental change in thermodynamics that makes aerospikes hard to cool makes it possible to make an aerospike engine that uses the expander cycle with any thrust output you want; while a bell nozzle geometry limits you by running into a barrier where the surface area being heated by combustion no longer supplies enough heat to vaporize propellant and run your pumps, linear aerospikes have no such limitation (you can make them infinitely wide and still be able to use the expander cycle), while toroidal aerospikes still set a finite limit on total thrust, albeit much higher than a bell nozzle (you're swapping lots of surface area at low thermal flux in a bell nozzle for lots of combustion chamber and 'throat' area in a toroidal aerospike nozzle for the exact same propellant mass flow).

>>12023112
On another completely unrelated note, how do you feel about clouds of hot hydrochloric acid and burning metal?

I read “Industrial Society and it’s Future” and honestly Ted has a lot of good points.

>>12023112
>Well, I sure reccomend to *not* drink rocket fuels or oxydizers.
>he hasn't taken the ethanol and nos pill

>what could have been

>>12023047
Yea it's a shame that they got such a bad rep because the Bundeswehr couldn't train their pilots in the early years.. I guess the bribe scandal didn't help either. Good thing the EF2k currently works out so well for them^^

>>12022565
What's the point on spending literally billions redesigning a landed when this exists? Why not just build an exact replica because it just works?

>>12023122
In case of a launch with no RUD the only metal burning is what is left to de-orbit.
The slight amounts of hydrochloric acid are no issue when dropping into the ocean, the solution to pollution is dillution.
>>12023124
As I mentioned in the post referenced by you, the germans had some serious issuey with engineers consuming the ethanol meant for their rockets.
Allthough they used hydrogen peroxide as an oxydizer and by means of catalythic decomposition to drive their turbopumps.

>>12023138
We probably forgot.

the last HTV departed the ISS a few hours ago

>>12023136
I'd argue the main issue was to sell a:
>good weather interceptor
As an
>all weather fighter/bomber
By bribing politicians.
The Bundeswehr had little need for such a plane, and there is little a pilot can do if the hydraulics stop working at low altitude.
He can't even eject, because the seat ejects down into the ground, he can just try to miss buildings...

>>12023151
>In case of a launch with no RUD
No, I'm talking about everything else beside successful launches with no complications.

>>12023138
Probably easier to design a new lander than try to make all the LEM's 60s tech compatible with current systems

>>12022853
Very poorly, it would tip easily as it has no keel.

>>12023186
If APCP boosters are sufficiently safe, so is ClF3 oxydizer.
Have you seen what a chunk of burning APCP does to a car?
Many NASA employees had their cars destroyed by exploding APCP boosters because no one listened to the engineery that said it was unsafe to launch at the wrong temperature.
ClF3 does not have temperature issues, so it could be argued to be even safer than human rated APCP-boosters.

>>12023089
Those were inspired by LESS+MOOSE.

>>12023180
Yeah that was definitely the problem.
>long narrow engine-tube-with-tiny-stub-wings
>call it Starfighter
>"hey let's use it to drop bombs on Russian tanks at low altitude"

So how will this orbit help a spacecraft get to Mars if its a polar orbit and not on the same ecliptic plane as Mars or Earth?

Also this is gonna be the first polar orbiting space station too

>>12023222
it's so weird

>>12022632
and? Please read more carefully.

>>12023222
>So how will this orbit help a spacecraft get to Mars
It needs more delta-V than LLO to reach it so unless Congress wants to strand astronauts in orbit around the moon they need to keep funding Mars rockets. It's grant farming in space.

>>12023222
>So how will this orbit help a spacecraft get to Mars if its a polar orbit and not on the same ecliptic plane as Mars or Earth?
By not being just far enough from the moon where one can argue that Gateway technically isn't a lunar mission in the event the next administrator wants to gut NASA again for his personal space program. Thus allowing the program to survive another Obama. NASA has pretty much abandoned designing their space programs to be optimal for the realities of space flight, but rather they focus on making their space programs to be optimal for the realities of politics.

>>12022708
>>12022677

these kinds of constructions are fucking surreal

>>12023209
>If APCP boosters are sufficiently safe
They are?

>NASA
>no one listened
Gee, what a surprise.

>ClF3 does not have temperature issues
Except for the storage tanks.

I don't understand why you are so adamant on being suicidal but it's your funeral I guess. As long as you are far, far away from anyone who realizes how fickle this shit is and isn't happy with a thin layer of metal fluoride separating them from experiencing literal hell.

>>12023240
>NASA has pretty much abandoned designing their space programs to be optimal for the realities of space flight, but rather they focus on making their space programs to be optimal for the realities of politics.

>>12023222
question are they gonna have an evac dragon on the the gateway incase people need to get out of dodge.

>>12023245
i fucking love it

when will our space infrastructure look like this and this scale

>>12023180
>[Update] [Auto] 4 new posts
I thought we were making fun about Bundeswehr

See now I'm conflicted, I don't wanna derail the thread, but I have a few issues with your statement.
...
Fuck!
Okay here we go.
It didn't help to put good weather pilots in a plane that was forced into a mission profile out of it's comfort zone... and then to box them into small training areas, completely different from their flying school environments.
> Bundeswehr had little need for such a plane
West Germany was the crushing zone for a conventional red invasion over a large stretch of central Europe. If they had come in, they'd need interceptors against bombers and speed would have absolutely aided their survivability, specially against the Mig21 and AA of it's time. They had a lighting fast turnaround time, were also really easy to maintain. Ground attack capabilities were compromised, sure, but they were there and this kind of warfare isn't symmetrical. The real problems I see, are start and landing speeds and that falling back to France or Britain probably would have been problematic because they had different weapons and airframes.

But they would definitely have carried their weight.

>>12023207
Anon I wasn't serious

>>12023029
>>12023043
I like it.

>>12023250
>whitey on the moon.mp3
The only alternative engineering solution to the poliltical problem is for them to crank out a batch of suborbital shuttle-derived SRBs with extra spicy payloads and drop them on "inner city" neighborhoods. Fusion, fission, white phosphorus, etc. But that would be a coup, so they don't do that.

>>12023258
you'd need asteroid or moon mining, smelting and near earth spacedocs for manufacturing.
once you get spaceship docs you can build ships the size of navy destroyers which will never be able to safely land on earth, but will be able to carry 100's of crewed members on spacenavy type missons.

>>12023289
They could land on the Moon though which is a cool prospect

>>12023246
>They are?
Well, they are safe enough for SLS, STS and Ares I...
>Except for the storage tanks.
Wich is why you fluorinate them and use asbestos reinforced phenol resin for the combustion chamber.
>only a layer of metal fluoride
It only takes a crack for an SRB to blow up as either and they are used as well..

>>12023294
yeah id imagine, the ship would be rated safe for certain landings.
id also mean a ship of that size would have be nuclear capable to run fusion drives and power systems and for turning ice into water and oxygen for resupply.

D
E
P
O
T

>>12023260
What the Bundeswehr requested was an:
>all weather multi-purpose fighter/bomber capable of using short runways
What they kind of got forced to use was a:
>good weather interceptor that needs ~400 km/h to take off or land and can't land with an engine failiure and had a flawed ejecting seat
The Mirage would have been a far better choice for that job.

>>12023316
>>all weather multi-purpose fighter/bomber capable of using short runways
So literally the F-35B which they don't want.

>>12023319
The last thing the Bundeswehr needs at the moment is yet another overly expensive weapons system sucking away ressources for maintainance.
The Klappdrache and Eurofighter are sufficient, or rather would be if they had the money to order spare parts.
Same goes for the Leopard 2...

>>12023306
And once you have closed-system life support with nuclear propulsion figured out, it's just a matter of scale to make O'Neill cylinders, colonies around other planets, interstellar ark ships...

>>12023299
not that guy but
>using STS, a vehicle with a 1/65 fatality rate as a bar for safety
>ares 1
>safe
Firstly, ares never flew, but the one "test flight" failed anyway. BTW USAF disagrees with you
http://images.spaceref.com/news/2009/fratricide.report.pdf

>germans
>bloat the shit out of the Starfighter
>Italians
>turn them into art

it looks like some kinda organic thing
why is that

>>12023328
I’m doubtful the aliens will let us leave

>>12021970
those are spacerats

>>12023328
oneil cynlinder the type we would imagine would be 200 to 300 years from now.
personally what i see in 50 to 100 years is a 1000 to 5000 manned moon base with 80 to 500 manned on mars.
which will go double exponentially after 100 years due to better fusion drives.

there'd martian cyclerrs ferrying goods and passengers between mars earth and the moon.

captured asteroids would be spun to great gravity and be the equivalent of way stations or seedy dive bar for miners and deep space maintenance crew.

>>12023369
Laser pistol barfights in the belt when?

>>12023329
Well, if it's safe enough for Boeing, it's safe.

This general is so easy to troll, who on earth would think combining:
>shit that makes everything burn
>liquid cancer
>solid cancer
>fibrous cancer
Would be a good idea?
What's next, lead pipes for drinking water?
Filters for drinking water or air made from asbestos?
Promoting weight gain and claiming opression of fat people?

>>12023319
The Luftwaffe actually did want the F-35 (specifically the A model), but the German government felt that the political consequences of buying an American 5th gen fighter would endanger their joint FCAS program with the French. They even had one general forced out when he pointed out that the F-35 was the ideal replacement for the Tornado.

>>12023422
Oh, well that makes much more sense then. German generals being overridden by boneheaded politicians is a proud tradition of theirs.

>>12023412
>(USER WAS NATIONALIZED FOR THIS POST)

>>12023369
>personally what i see in 50 to 100 years is a 1000 to 5000 manned moon base with 80 to 500 manned on mars.
so you think starship will fail?

>>12023426
What's even worse is that, to avoid buying F-35s, they're buying 4th generation Eurofighters and (potentially) Superhornets to replace the Tornado. Meanwhile, instead of working with the FCAS program, the Poles, using some EU defense allocations (so primarily German money) are buying F-35s. It's a real clusterfuck.

>>12023419

>>12023316
That's what I said with the addition that they were incapable to train their pilots and ground crew.
>>12023319
>>12023327
BW should stay away as far as possible from the F35 as humanly possible.
Germany has so much trouble with complex gear lately, specially if it was designed by committee.
Until they got their shit back together, which is nowhere near in sight, they should stick with the most simple solutions possible.
I'd say F16 because they are cheap, but BW have been chronically unable to buy and maintain trainers. Therefore my solution would be to only buy 2seaters with every single unit being fully usable as a trainer and in general, no sub versions.
Germans are so extremely chaotic and helpless because of all the bureaucracy, they force on everything and nobody having enough initiative to take responsibility.

It has to be
>foolproof in any way
>2seater
>single engine
>a lot of shared parts
>only decade old proven electronics, instruments and avionics with long shelf-lifes
>cheap and available in high numbers
>scandalproof
>coming with thought out, simple protocols and documentation
>be the polar opposite of the F35 (If BW would ever get one of these, it would not once leave the ground in it's lifetime)
Funnily enough I could see that being relatively close to look like another F-104 but history shows, that until they got rid of the shithead in charge who couldn't operate the thing. I heard that GenLtnt Karl Müllner got kicked out of the very same position lately for supporting to get the F35, probably in a rare moment of sanity.

>>12023407
as long as there is heavy dispute on who shot first

>>12023419
Asbestos isnt dangerous unless its aerosolized and breathed in.

>>12023445
The Bundeswehr has little real need for another plane and its required infrastructure in general.
The Tornado and Typhoon are sufficient and both allready have all the facilities for maintainance and pilots trained to fly them.
That money is better spent in spare parts, ammunition and rifles.

>>12023427
I think everyone keep forgetting, its not only starship but infrastructure which takes a hell of alot of time to build. Its not like plymouth rock where people landed and got to work to build houses. So for every X set of astronauts, youll need to expand living conditions,more power more water etc so when they show up they will have a space to live.but like i said the mars population would be a double exponential from 100 to 100k to 500k population once the first settlers land lay the ground work. remember for each new group that lands


Also we would have to have things like the landing site and equipment on the ground before any humans even arrive non of that has happened as yet. when it does ill reevaluate.
but for the moon everything is far easier since its nearer.The only question is how to get fabrication machinery on the moon to build large plate walls or trust beams/columns for dome structures

>>12023458
>someone actualy takes this serious
>only dangerous when aerosolized
Something that totaly doesn't happen to asbestos fabric...

>>12023476
dude calm down. If it isn't in the air its not dangerous. You can have like a lining around and then you can fucking lick it and it wont do anything.

If it feasible for 4ASS to take a monster truck tire and turn it into an inflatable space station?

>>12023329
lmao the eternal DoD meme strikes again

>>12023500
bigelow already has this.

>>12023470
Last year we had 3 operational Typhoons, this year we have 4 (2, that's 66% crashed last year). The parade example for why design by committee sucks. Like most of our gear it's simply not compatible with Bundeswehr German supply chain and since BW won't ever change, we'd be best off with gear that protects us from our autism.

>>12023493
Dude, I litteraly suggested to blow oxygen through asbestos fabric or using it in ablative nozzles.
How on earth does that not create airborne fibers?

>>12022309
>>12022415
:)

>>12023509
I fear that a 3rd type of plane would make things even worse.
But hey, we have more Typhoons ready that U-boats...

>>12023509
The problem is that every modern aircraft requires a significantly higher infrastructure investment than the Typhoon. I suppose the FCAS might be a bit easier to justify supplying if they're buying components from German companies, but I suspect the French are either going to go off and do their own thing (like with the Eurofighter) or strong-arm the Germans into accepting their design priorities for the final product.

>>12023518
Tornados are on their way out and Typhoons, as mentioned, don't fly. We have 140 of them and 4 fly, that's like 5% man
We also have more ships which don't swim than subs which dive, yes.

>I fear that a 3rd type of plane would make things even worse.
We could sell all the Typhoons to whoever wants them, they are low mileage after all... and then starting off from square one wouldn't be too much of a problem either, because guess how much experience German pilots have on them and I'm sure we have a majority of ground personnel which haven't turned a jet around for years.

i know titan has dust devils like mars and dust storms, but considering its dense atmosphere and rain storms, is it possible it has tornadoes?

>>12023546
We should've just annexed you fags after the war. What a disgrace.

>>12023552
that'd require us to switch ideologies. too much political power and it'd mess up our alliances

>>12023557
Literally no US ally pulls their own weight, so fuck 'em.

>>12023546
I see no reason why F16 or F35 should be more operational than the Eurofighter.

>>12023563
its a hoi4 joke but true, our only good allies are britain and japan

>>12023512
That sounds like a good idea. Someone should make something like that.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1295883862380294144
TORY BRUNO BTFO

>>12023570
>You're even with two flights and ahead with three
>F9 can refly 6+ times
Holy shit, he's literally printing money now.

>>12023505
lmfao

who has the LONGEST payload fairing of all time

>>12023527
>The problem is that every modern aircraft requires a significantly higher infrastructure investment than the Typhoon.
Then give us your solution, anon!
>Typhoon don't work.
>Complex new aircraft surely won't ever work.
>Buying American is a hard sale.
>And you have to mind other EU countries feelings.

Hardmode: You can't fix the Command system, chain of supply, the way new acquisition is handled, or error/faultresolvance policies

I mean I'd be genuinely amazed if you could get your head around this, but here's a first hint, the answer sure as hell isn't F-35

>>12023579
take the SU-22 pill

>>12023574
OH GOD I'M GONNA PROOOOOOONT

What did he mean by this?

Favourite SpaceX video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr_CoOQCf3k

>>12023591
Propellant is stored in the balls.

>>12023596
Thunderf00t's future "SpaceX: Busted" video.

>>12023591
That all SpaceX ships will be male.

>>12023579
I don't have a solution. It's an institutional problem with the way the German government views its military that's unlikely to change. I'm just pointing out that the increasing complexity seen in combat aircraft will cause even greater problems with sustainment than the Germans are currently experiencing.

>>12023601
>First cargo starship crashes on landing
>SpaceX debunked made immediately afterwards complaining about spaveX stealing tax funds

Raptor installed in SN6, now we wait

>>12023605
Germany is a dying nation on its last legs; most of Europe is. It’s as plain as day.

>>12023565
F16: single engine, old as fuck, well established supply system
Typhoon: twin engine and if you google it, there are these words like "world’s most advanced swing-role combat aircraft" "International design" and "Defensive Aids" (Do YOU want defensive AIDS?!?)

Germany obviously can't handle "world’s most advanced", "International", or any Aids, not to speak of defensive Aids.

I haven't worked on the F16, but it has to be crusty and simple and proven by time. And I personally have never heard about any problems with the F16 to be quiet honest (There sure were some in the past).

>>12023583
Hey I don't care... If we could, Soviet would sure be a solid choice, I guess.

>>12023605
I just came up with one, privatize aircraft maintenance and stockpiling.
personally, I hate it about as much as I hate Airbus and Boeing, but tell me this doesn't sound goat as fuck.

When?

>>12023579
Give up and apply for American annexation. Germany can not be saved as an independent military power.

>>12023633
Germany as the 55th state when?

>>12023633
If we dissolve the Bundeswehr and ask Blackwater to run our gigs?

>>12023635
After they stop funding the Russians.

>>12023640
How else can they get oil besides sucking Russian cock?

You DO properly optimize the mass ratios of your stages in KSP, right?

>>12023648
Approximately done so in the VAB. Otherwise I'm just gonna end up fiddling with spreadsheets for a couple of hours and get bored before launching anything.

>>12023633
Does that mean we are American citizens like Hawaiians and can come over without any hassle? Because I hate living in Germany, Europe, just because of the landscape and climate and would very much welcome becoming American to move to Washington or North Idaho.

>>12023652
More like Samoans or Puerto Ricans than Hawaiians, so yeah you could come over.

>>12023648
I have a copy of SMAD 3rd Edition.

>>12023651
just have one of your grad students do the spreadsheets

>>12023659
I am the grad student.

When?

>>12023655
Hey man you have my vote then, for all I care you can even do a fully blown invasion and all. I'd love to see the show.

>>12023023
m o n e y

10km/s hydrofluor missiles with nuclear fragmentation warheads when?

>>12022509
That's technically the LEM, bro.

>>12023679
>built in the atmosphere

>>12023647
Sucking American cock.

>>12023616
Fast as fuck

>>12023648
I literally use the jumbo sized SRB as the bottom stage for every single mission.

I routinely send missions with 8 or 9 km/s of Delta V to do stuff that a rocket with 5 or 6 could have done.

>>12022733
Asbestos fabric might work but I'm not sure on the elasticity.

HOP WHEN

>>12023620
Not entirely correct.
Taking the engines out of an Eurofighter for example is ridiculously easy and a single engine failiure doesn't mean the plane is lost.

>>12023685
The US has to find a way to get their LNG shipments cheaper for that to be practical. In reality, the best way to wean off Russia is to ensure the Israeli-Greek gas development around Cyprus goes through.

>tfw still dont undertstand the clusterfuck of units for isp

>>12023697
Think of Isp as a scaled exhaust velocity. It's in seconds so it can be used by both British and Metric systems. Just multiply the Isp by the average acceleration of Earth's gravity and you'll get the exhaust velocity.

>>12023671
Welche show?
Meinst du ernsthaft irgendwer würde die Merkel-Regierung verteidigen?
Das würde ehee wie der Anschluss Österreichs laufen, nur halt andersherum...

Is there any reason we should go straight to mars? Wouldn't it make more sense to turn phobos, or some other martian moon into it's own spacestation?

>>12023690
Next mon-wed is scheduled road closure (and TFR). Its likely static fire, but hop could be shortly after.

>>12023697
100 s of ISP = 100 s × 9,81 m/s2 = 981 m/s exaust velocity
Or for burgers: almost exactly the speed a projectile has when leaving the muzzle of an AR-15

>>12023705
Costs less fuel

>>12023705
Aerobraking for capture saves a lot of deltaV.

what isp can you get by mounting a bunch of m249s on the pack of your capsule?

>>12023715
I don't think that's true actually, unless the aerobraking factors in more then I think

>>12022733
Aeroelasticity would kick in and create all kinds of issues: if you want the fabric to change shape it has to be somewhat flexible, which means that it would start vibrating, and the ripples would generate shockwaves that would probably kill efficiency or worse. To make it simple it would probably behave like when you hold a piece of paper by one end and blow on top of it and it vibrates, only in 3D and with compressible flow effects on top of it.

>>12023721
Damn, this almost looks like a subway map.

>>12023719
It should have about 1000 m/s muzzle velocity, assuming half of the mass of each round is ejected at that speed it averages out at 500 m/s exaust velocity.
500 m/s ÷9,81m/s2=51 s
So about 51 s ISP

>>12023729
Future colonists, are you taking that Earth-Venus or Earth-Mars transfer?

O_O

>>12023738

>probe makes it to another planet
>realize should have looked closer at antenna planning menu because this piece of shit can barely reach out of local orbit

>>12023438
The F35 is awesome but china has the same tech now after stealing schematics from a contractor’s computer. IIRC the F-22 hasn’t been sold to ANY outside buyer and they took extra steps to make sure that shit never gets stolen. Both are beautiful planes though despite their costs and problems

>>12023736
Venus is gay. Basically living on a gas giant at that point.

>>12022733
Also, the swiveling action would not redirect the flow, but it would overexpand one side and underexpand the other, and that's a whole other can of worms.

>>12023746
F-22 a SHIT, 23 should have won the competition by ALL reasonable standards

>>12023697
It's not that hard once you understand what specific impulse means.
Impulse is a force multiplied by time. If you multiply impulse by mass, you get a velocity. Ergo, it makes sense to look at rocket performance as a metric of impulse. However, rockets come in all shapes and sizes, at many different thrust levels. Therefore, in order to compare them, we need to pick some kind of adjusted standard to put everything on the same playing field. There's basically two ways of doing this, you can either look directly at exhaust velocity (lame as fuck, and different people use different units of distance and therefore will need to do unit conversions to communicate), or you can pick the chad way that gives you a value expressed in units of time instead.
Remember that impulse is force multiplied by time? Well, in order to isolate the time metric, you need to cancel out the force metric. Therefore, to figure out a specific impulse value from any propulsion system, all you need to do is give an engine a mass of propellant that has the exact same weight force (in Earth gravity) as the thrust-force the engine produces, and then run the engine dry with a stopwwatch running. In reality what they do is simply measure the thrust putput and mass flow rate of the engine, then do a bit of math to figure out the actual time it would take to burn the thrust-force-weight of propellant, and viola, a specific impulse value.
To put it another way, a thruster with an Isp of 300 that produced one newton of thrust force would burn for 300 seconds if provided with a mass of propellant that weighed one newton on Earth, ie ~102 grams of mass. For imperial, just use those other units. If that thruster were a million times bigger, it would still only burn for 300 seconds when given ~102,040 kilograms of propellant. If the little thruster were instead ten times as efficient, it'd just burn for 3000 seconds (as long as it produced the same thrust of 1 netwon).

>>12023693
It may be easy, but in BW it doesn't work like that. They depend on some oldfag "who has the sacred knowledge", but he's got some medical problem that makes him lawfully 80% handicapped. That's why the jet has to sit there for 5 months until he's officially able for work again. But then Passierschein A38 has expired and has to be manually revoked and reapplied and submitted again, so that takes another 4 weeks.
Then the bianual technical inspection is due despite the jet being flagged for mainenence, it (as expected) fails, after being prepared for the review for like a week


Now the work can start.
The guy starts digging in and removes the engine. It takes some time, because you gotta stall where you can, otherwise the co would expect everything to go faster in the future and we can't have that now, can we?
So after 2 weeks the engine is out, but this one bearing, consisting of 280 moving parts (because GERMAN ENGINEERING JA!) is clearly defective because of that dust particle the senior doesn't like (but everybody agrees with him to not look retarded, The Kaiser's New Clothes and shit).
We clearly have to get a new one.

A short 6 hour visit and chill in storage surfaces the fact that since that incident they aren't allowed to stockpile parts in the aircraft part stockpiling facility that is fully staffed by 4 lads, mind you watchfully guarding a back of o-rings three wheels for the Wiesel light tank and a bedframe.

Therefore a form has to be filled out, submitted and waved through by four posts including base command because the bearing costs more than 2000€
Six weeks go by, the form and later the bearing go back and forth, north and south, before it finally reaches the base from a maintenance depot 20 km away.
Turns out the bearing is broken, warped, a snapring is missing, it's the wrong bearing, it's shelf life expired 10 years ago and it's very rusty despite being non corrosive.

What comes next is beyond my knowledge or wildest imagination.

>>12023746
There's stealing the design, and then there's correctly implementing it.

The Chinese are seriously behind in actual industrial engineering. Even the Russians make better jet engines.

>>12023704
Don't be an asshole, speak English.

>>12023756
pls no bully, I have gold cockpit

>>12023750
Floating colonies tho

>>12022845
new fairing catch video from Elon
with soothing music

>>12023721
With aerobraking you can ignore all but about 300 m/s of delta V requirements after you achieve a Mars intercept (a rocket burn is required for landing on Mars, hence the ~300 m/s). Even with aerobraking to a capture orbit that kisses Phobos' orbit, you still need to do the capture burn and deorbit/landing burns at Phobos, which costs at least ~1250 m/s according to your delta V map.
Since you really start hitting the rocket equation wall at around 6 km/s, especially if you're trying to get a decent payload mass fraction, any mission that requires more than 6km/s in the tanks before there's an option to refill on propellants is generally not ideal. Throw in the fact that the extra almost-km-per-second you'd need to use to get to Phobos would be better suited for just getting to Mars faster and limiting deep space radiation dose exposure, plus Mars is where all the easy water and CO2 is at, and it becomes pretty clear that Phobos is not a stepping stone to get to Mars.
Phobos is not useless, though. It's actually a stepping stone to the asteroid belt, and a pretty awesome one at that. Slow spin rate, decent mix of resources as best we can tell, and obviously right there next to Mars, it's the ideal location to figure out super-low-G mining and refining processes as well as manufacturing techniques that would directly lead to us being able to send huge rotating space habitat stations out to the asteroid belt to start up mining and manufacturing efforts out there, too.
So the most logical order of things goes Mars, Phobos, Asteroids, Everything. The Moon can happen while Mars is happening, but it probably won't have nearly as much impact as Mars and Phobos, because the Moon is actually a pretty delta-V intensive place to try to do things since there's no atmosphere to brake down from orbit with, and also most orbits around the Moon are unstable due to Mass concentrations. The Moon's only advantage is proximity, and hence speed of development.

>>12023776
W...what's the "catch", anon?
h... hhehe

>>12023745
Is that Niven? Also yeah, the antennae feel really anemic most of the time

>>12023743
>The Mystery of the Druids

>>12022068
>>12022089
Even the F150 starts at 4000lbs. American pickups are fuckin hueg.

>>12023825
>4000lbs
1818 kg, for other anons

>>12023512
Its only airborne if its aerosolized the rocket will burn it away. Dipshit

>>12022998
I'm assuming that the ClF3 is 'relatively safer' than FOOF?

>>12023774
floating on venus is a dumb idea, just put up solar mirrors and cool the fucker down. and live on the surface.

bros lets just move venus out to like jupiter for a while to cool it down

>>12023855
On that note, I can’t wait until our species has enough energy to throw around that we can move stars at will and have a nomadic solar fleet traversing the cosmos picking up any juicy morsels as we go along

>>12023855
Sure, and while we're at it we can put Ceres into orbit around Venus as a nice little moon

>>12023846
>FOOF
Does it make water explode?

>>12023825
>>12023835
Modern American pickups are basically 1950s cruiser cars with more height and an open bed.

>>12023758
super helpful and easy to visualize actually. Thanks for writing this out

>>12023863
Until we have enough crap to build a single ship that uses the star as a reactor. Dyson Sphere my ass, we have thrusters in the back, a ram in the front and the bridge on top, doorguns on the sides and a planet eating cargo bay in the belly.

>>12023715
yeah but more space stations tho

>>12023925
>one of these approaches our system
What do, open matrix of leadership?

>>12023927
If you're doing space stations for no other reason than doing space stations, you're doing space wrong.

Do Mars first. From Mars, once you have propellant manufacturing, you can do Phobos missions. Once you can do Phobos missions from Mars, you can develop asteroid-mining technology and zero G (or freefall based) manufacturing processes, which lets you construct gigantic rotating habitats, which lets you colonize literally everything that you can either launch back off of or has moons that you can launch off of, probably starting with the asteroid belt and followed soon after by efforts in the Jupiter system.

>>12023932
They'd snatch our planets, meanwhile we are having Armageddon because of the giant gravity well that is the USCSS Avalon, "the system breaker", they'd snatch everything except Uranus, because they don't wanna get memed and that's it.

>>12023855
delet

>>12023795
yeah, its niven
mistakes were made

you're a big rocket

>>12023991
They expect one of us in the wreckage.

>>12023991
would be a shame if one of your 500 turbopumps happened to explode

>>12023951
>bridge front window 37,000 miles high
Imagine the vertigo.

>>12023935
>if you doing space stations for no other reason then space stations you're doing space wrong
>wrong
nah

>The KORD was found to have a number of serious design flaws and poorly programmed logic. One unforeseen flaw was that its operating frequency, 1000 Hz, happened to perfectly coincide with vibration generated by the propulsion system, and the shutdown of Engine #12 at liftoff was believed to have been caused by pyrotechnic devices opening a valve, which produced a high-frequency oscillation that went into adjacent wiring and was assumed by the KORD to be an overspeed condition in the engine's turbopump. The wiring in Engine #12 was believed to be particularly vulnerable to this effect due to its length; however, other engines had similar wiring and were unaffected. Also, the system ended up drawing 25V instead of its designed 15V due to the ruptured power lines.
kek

>>12023951
>>12024002
Guys I think I found proof, that we made it, as a species.
I think we are ready for hivemind shit.
It's official Wikipedia lore, can you believe that?

>>12024011
Uranus takes a poiunding more frequently than previously thought.

>proposed the RD-270 engine using unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH) and nitrogen tetroxide (N2O4) propellants to power the newly enlarged N1 design.
IMAGINE THE SMELL

>>12024017
Uranus has a complicated planetary ring system

"YThe exploration of Uranus has, to date, been solely through telescopes and a lone probe"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Uranus#:~:text=The%20exploration%20of%20Uranus%20has%2C%20to%20date%2C%20been,examined%20its%20ring%20system%2C%20discovering%20two%20new%20rings.

>>12024020
NASA plans to probe the depths of Uranus.

air augmented rockets when bros?

>>12024023
wtf I didn't even think it was real for the first few seconds

bros why dont we just use electrons instead of heavy fuckin hydrogen as propellant for MAXIMUM performance?

>>12024028
Without consent I think that's illegal :/

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1295826841853403139
>Hearing that Northrop Grumman will cancel the Omega rocket after it failed to win the recent Air Force contest.
F

>>12024035
We're adults, why is this still so damned funny
Uranus did nothing to deserve this mockery. I don't even have anything against Uranus, it'd be an amazing sight and deserving of rigorous study.

>>12024042
Gone 2 soon

>>12024042
lmao

>>12024053
I don't see the problem. Looks like a very solid concept to me.

Scientifically speaking, what was the smelliest rocket of all time?

>>12024099
s5

>>12024106
>>12024099
ah thought you said smallest

>>12024043
We will have to rename Uranus. There's no other way around, just straight through it.

>>12024133
We’ll have to hammer this uranus issue directly