/sci/ - Science & Math

fuck urf

>>12014777
>who will supply it?
Not the Americans I hope.

Closure today in cameron county. Pressure test or something else?

New Kurzgesagt video about asteroid mining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8XvQNt26KI
Pretty fitting for colonization

>>12014784
>Not the Americans, I hope

>>12014802
I hate that channel. Its like it's optimized for consumption. Don't watch it on principle. Lacks a human element.

>>12014802
>those comments
Midwit genocide when?

>>12014802

>>12014777
Excavation equipment, MOXIE plants, storage tanks, and concrete mixers.

>>12014777
Probably little personal magnetic field generator to replace the lack of one on Mars for their "natural healing" abilities

>>12014826
Is that pickle Sneed/George Floyd

>>12014802
I can't stand these guy's videos.

>>12014838
What's wrong with it?

>>12014825
That last guy needs a lesson in apex predators.
>>12014840
I dunno. I just can't stand them. Do I need a reason?
I feel like they're high quality but low content. Ten minutes for something you can say better in two and, even then, not entirely accurate.

>>12014850
yeah, but all their videos are based on real research so at least they aren't talking out of their asses

>>12014852
>There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
-Mark Twain

Even if you use real research you can misrepresent the facts. Politicians and political pundits do this all the time. It's not difficult at all. Saying they use real research is meaningless.

>>12014850
>I feel like they're high quality but low content.
It's not a feeling, their videos are Wikipedia articles skimmed and presented with a good animation trough popscience lens. It's a nice program for children or redditors who love science!

>Using SpaceX’s capsule and rocket could also get NASA to the Moon by 2024, because they are now flight tested. There are no guarantees that Orion—a stripped-down version of which made a test flight in 2014—and the SLS rocket will pass their upcoming flight tests.
>Traveling beyond low Earth orbit would therefore require some substantial but feasible changes to the spacecraft, Reismann said. Dragon’s communication system works through GPS, so it would need a new communications and navigation system. In terms of radiation, he said, addressing this for astronauts is relatively straightforward, but hardening electronics would require some work. The heat shield could be made capable of returning from the Moon relatively easily, Reismann said. Additional consumables for a longer journey would take up interior volume.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/could-a-dragon-spacecraft-fly-humans-to-the-moon-its-complicated/

>>12014784
That actually looks quite comfy

>>12014784
You mean, hopefully America supplies it.
Realistically, any colony on another celestial body will be similar to Antarctica.
And America does the best there.

>>12014784
Bugaloo burger hover by when?

>>12014897
>Bugaloo burger hover
Elaborate, please. I think I am a man for you to make this happen.

>>12014886
>And America does the best there.
How do you know?
Have you ever been in all of them?

>>12014886
America has the budget and more or less combined willpower, they do it the least worst. Compare an emotion loaded US Invasion to a higher profile UN involvement. And then compare that to a PMC gig. It should be internationally funded and privately/single entity governed and executed.

>>12014933
>an emotion loaded US Invasion to a higher profile UN involvement. And then compare that to a PMC gig. It should be internationally funded and privately/single entity governed and executed.
BTW are these props arctic spec for colder air, or are they just heated covers to prevent icing?

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QbM7Vsz3kg

Cryo test happening. Pads are cleared, we're now waitin for vents.

>>12014784
>Not the Americans I hope.
If not the Americans then Who? Russia is broke. The EU lacks the willpower? China's space program has no experience?

>>12014971
Is this serial the one that's going to 20km or is it just doing this test?

>>12014784
The jews do the burger shit bro

>>12015001
No, this is just for more 150m hops.

>>12014784
Imagine being unironically against space burger kino.

>>12014937
All big planes are rated for -60C and come with deicing systems anyways because it's a normal temperature at the upper flight levels. There might be some changes to fluids used and startup procedures to allow for cold start in arctic conditions, but props and engines themselves I imagine are fairly standard.

>>12014877
At what point would they have modified Dragon so much that it is no longer human rated and needs to be recertified?

Also, Starship lunar lander will have to be human rated but will that carry over normal Starship?

If I tattooed black stripes on my penis to make it look like the Saturn V, would that be cringe or based?

>>12015066
If you have a big dick, it’s based. If it’s a little baby 7” then don’t bother.

>>12015066
do a feather instead and call it New Shepard

Apart from methalox and hydrolox, what are some other possible ISRU propellants and how would you rank their ease of use? Aluminium + Lox (Alumilox?) is possible, but it seems rather energy intensive for the amount of DeltaV a given plant would generate (compared to methalox and hydrolox).

pic semi-related

>>12015083
Depends on the body

>>12014802
Isaac Arthur > Kurszgezundheit

>>12015083
AlLox is good for dedicated moon lander/ascenders because it's just regolith plus collected energy (solar panels) and gets you enough to reach LLO or L2. L2 in turn has very nice properties as an interplanetary spaceport site, needing only a small delta V to swing down to LEO at perigee for maximum Oberth boost for escape. This means you can have hydrolox or methalox rockets from Earth and AlLox rockets from the lunar surface meet up with long haul nuclear rockets at L2.

>>12014802
Enough has been said about it on this board, but I'll comment on the little animation of the spacecraft burning to meet the asteroid about 3 minutes and 40 seconds in. It has the spacecraft burning away from the asteroid to slow down instead of burning towards it. Sure, it's a small feature, but it's something that alot of non-spaceflight videos get wrong, and it's nice to see someone get it right.

Pares warp coil ships when?

https://www.qed-ne.com/

>>12015091
Fucking this

>>12015091
>Isaac Arthur
is he the one with the speech impediment?

>>12015127
Yeah, it's odd to hear "biwwion" instead of billion.

>>12015091
>>12015121
>>12015127
>>12015133
Isaac Arthur be like

Post brutal moggings

>>12015147
Does this count?

>>12015148
Is it still a mogging when the SLS still got paid all that cash?

>>12015148
What a joke

>>12015133
I watched one video by him about "Maws" missions and made it halfway but I had to turn it off

>>12015116
Big if true. Interested to find out more.

>>12015092
Chemical energy alone does not an engine make. Trying to make aluminum metal useful as a fuel is an extremely difficult engineering challenge, and makes every other hard part of rocket engine design even harder. How do you do regenerative cooling? You need to use either molten aluminum (a bad coolant, because it's already quite hot) or liquid oxygen (a bad coolant because oxygen). How do you store and handle your aluminum fuel? Do you go for manufacturing micron-scale dust particles, and somehow making them not cold weld to each other when stressed mechanically? Do you store your aluminum as a liquid and spray it into the engine like a normal fuel, albeit starting off at much higher temperatures? How does the throat section of your nozzle handle being blasted by aluminum oxide (corundum) dust grains at supersonic speeds? Solid rocket motors which use aluminum as a fuel (Shuttle SRBs for example) would commonly experience more than an INCH of nozzle erosion from a single burn of several minutes. The list goes on.

The only potentially more difficult-to-design-for propellant combination I can think of right now is aluminum-fluorine, because it has every problem that an alumilox rocket would face, with a bonus of needing to handle an oxidizer so powerful that it attacks everything that isn't already a fluoride compound. Also, the Isp of an alumilox rocket would be shit. Sure, maybe enough for a single vehicle to do single-stage sorties to Lunar orbit and back without on-orbit refueling, but faced with all those engineering challenges I mentioned, it would be vastly easier and be a better use of the aluminum to just build a 100 km electromagnetic catapult to launch rocket stages filled with more conventional propellants using relatively scarce volatiles instead.

>>12015173
>>12015116
Nevermind, they have an Indiegogo page.

>>12015151
A rich fag who pays hoes to hang off his arm is mogged by the unemployed Chad who cucks him, yes.

>>12015185
Alot of the issues you listed would be solved if the aluminum fuel were used as a solid with the lox sprayed on it like a hybrid motor.

>>12015185
>inch of nozzle erosion per burn
>soak in highly corrosive seawater afterwards
>"totally reusable, guys!"
The shuttle was such a meme.

>>12015196
What kind of binding agent are you going to be able to produce from lunar material? Extracts from the colony’s human waste?

>>12015116
>15N/kW emdrive
>over 15kN thrust out of a solar panel array or a relatively small beamed-power laser
Sheeeeeeeit.

>>12015215
>What kind of binding agent are you going to be able to produce from lunar material?
By partially melting the aluminum powder and letting it solidify? Like kind of material from a really coarse 3D metal printer.

>>12015116
>>12015188
I'll believe it when I see it in action. I hope Indiegogo has a good refund policy for payers.

>>12015231
I have fairly limited experience with solids, so I could be completely wrong, but doesn’t the aluminum need to be in a powdered form to burn effectively? I’m sure inundating it with lox changes things, but I’m not sure if simply making the surface rough and particles loosely connected could work. That’d actually be a pretty interesting research project.

>>12015247
In lunar vacuum there's no oxide patina on larger chunks of aluminum so it's actually hypergolic with lox.

>>12015151
Yes, because the CHAD-9 has actually flown dozens of missions and the Virgin Launch System hasn't even flown at all yet. Once the extended fairing for Heavy is made it will be an even worse mogging because with the larger fairing you could actually use Heavy to near it's theoretical maximum rating.

>>12015256
what erodes the corundum surface that results? does it get hot enough to evaporate?

>>12015068
It's more like 7 1/2" so maybe it could be a Saturn 1B

>>12015116
Should be able to make a craft with a power cable that can full on levitate with that lifting capability. Also, wouldnt this thing be detectable with the gw intetferometers? I want it tested like that asap so we can rule it out, 99.9999% chance this,is a heating artifact.

LH2 First stage/hypergolic 2nd stage, SRB RCS thrusters

>>12015256
Huh, that’s actually pretty interesting. Is there anywhere I could read more about that?

>>12015247
My experience with solids is limited too, but I did get lox safety training and that taught me that any nook and cranny in a metal is a perfect site for lox to start a metal fire. Then again, they might have exaggerated it in the interest of safety, but I think it's not that far from the truth. I think the hard part would be how to make a motor casing that doesn't get eaten up by lox once the aluminum runs out.

>That’d actually be a pretty interesting research project.
I wish I had the money for that.

>>12015285
>ceramic casings

>>12015285
The university I’m going to in the spring does a fuckton of undergrad propulsion research, so I might actually try to propose it. Seems like an interesting enough idea to explore.

hmmmmmmmmmm

>>12015278
Theoretically, with about 2500m^2 of solar surface area, assuming the panels are as efficient as those of the ISS, you should get an engine that can put out up to 377 lbf or 1.68kN of thrust. There are research examples of solar cells which can get up to 40% efficient though, so using the same surface area with those you could possibly squeeze 2-3kN out of the same surface area, or still yield 1.6-1.7kN from a solar array of only 1500m^2.
You could use solar film arrays to lighten the overall structure and make it easier to deploy, however their efficiency is garbage, something in the 10-15% range, meaning you'd need a solar array of 4000m^2 or more to generate the same amount of thrust. Might still be worth it though since solar film is going to be a lot less than half the weight of a conventional hard panel.

Habbening

>>12015309
That's very fortunate for you. Take full advantage of that, and make sure you have a full plan ready to present. A paper outlining every major part of a project has more impact than a simple proposal presented by spoken word alone even if not every fine detail has been ironed out. Good luck.

>>12015284
You can use silicon or carbon to reduce it to Al2O, so a carbon lined ablative nozzle would do double duty.

>>12015266
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compounds_of_aluminium#Reactions_of_aluminium_metal
>A fine powder of aluminium metal reacts explosively on contact with liquid oxygen
And that's on Earth, with Al2O3 patina. With direct contact between aluminum metal and LOX, I imagine it's even stronger.

>>12015361
This does not look 100% nominal.

>>12015361
I like how Starhopper is still sitting there smug in its 150m supremacy.

>>12015395
*faint whirring in the distance*

>>12015343
Assuming a spacecraft of 10 tons using a 4000m^2 solar film sail, you'd get a TWR of about .02, if you dedicated 20% of your mass to solar collectors you could push that TWR up to more like .2, which is pretty excellent for a purely electric propulsion system.
It goes without saying too that if the system runs purely off of electricity then as long as you have a sufficient supply of power your actual dV is essentially unlimited.
If you have a nuclear reactor aboard instead of solar panels, with a 1kg core of U-235, which liberates energy at about 40% efficiency, you should get 40,000 hours or 4.5 years of continuous engine firing.

>>12015278
>gw interferometers
They detect gravitational waves, not space-time curvature. Also, can someone smarter than me look at his paper? https://74ee0b2b-d369-4387-b67c-01fa6ce0a024.filesusr.com/ugd/0679fd_89600d0f51474c35a14de230d7c9c304.pdf

>>12015405
Also they're claiming this is an Alcubierre drive, so if that's true, goodbye time dilation, but also you come to a dead stop the instant the engine shuts off. That would actually be pretty sweet for planetary orbiters - get into stationary orbit position and cut the engines. No more gay flyby profiles.

>>12015418
Not dead stop though, you'd still have whatever motion you started with

>>12015361
Is that a weld leaking? RIP SN6 if so.

>>12015406
Arent gw literally ripples in st?

>>12015143

>>12015426
How? You arent "moving" at all, you are distorting space and sitting in the area in the middle that isnt diatorted. All inertial effects are negated-you would be in freefall.

>>12015433
Weld, valve or connector would be my guess. Might be something with the puck leaking like a motherfucker.

>>12015426
So for anything other than low orbit around Jupiter or Saturn you only need 10km/s dV tops in the chemical rocket tanks. Totally doable with a small methalox system, or even kerolox since Isp doesn't matter nearly as much as thrust for this application.

>>12015434
Unless GR is wrong, yes.

>>12015433
No one knows, but since the test is still going, if there was an issue, its a minor one.

>>12015434
Exactly - ripples. LIGO detects when their interferometer's arms get shorter and longer by a few atoms, it can't detect a stationary gravity field. I think.

>>12015446
As I said. The motion you had before you entered "Alcubierre warp" will continue. In orbit around earth? Whatever direction the motion was right as you entered "warp" will still be there once you exit.

>>12015418
Yes, of course like any drive of this type it seems too good to be true, with a 10MW reactor you'd be putting out 15.7 tons of thrust, with a reactor like the Gerald R Ford's A1B that puts out about 385MW of power you'd be looking at 604 tons of thrust, if you're willing to put up with a relatively low .1 TWR, you could be slinging a six kiloton ship around, assuming Starship ends up being about 230 tons, that means this hypothetical craft could 26 times larger.

Alright shitheads, how the fuck do you do multi planet gravity assists in ksp? I wanna do missions like Kerbin -> Eve -> Kerbin -> Dres -> Dres, but I have no idea how to plan it.

Is KSPTOT the only way? It's so slow and buggy

>>12014784
What is the Lord’s day on Mars? Asking because I’m gonna open a chic fil a and I need to know which day to close

>>12015446
I think he's assuming the spacecraft deploys from a Starship or other chemical rocket in Earth orbit rather than yeeting itself off the ground. If you've got the power budget to lift yourself off Earth you have an onboard reactor and can do whatever the fuck you want.

>>12015454
The paper includes a section on using optical redshift measurement to check for local spacetime distortion. Assuming c is constant, redshift in a fixed volume of air or vacuum can only be gravitational.

>>12015461
>Lord's Sol

>>12015196
>like a hybrid motor
Don't open that can of worms. Hybrid rockets are pure shit for a lot of reasons, literally combine the worst parts of solid motors and liquid engines to get a hybrid rocket.

>>12015462
You are still in motion on earth though even just sitting on your ass you have a pretty big velocity through space

>>12015461
>What is the Lord’s day on Mars?
It's going to be every seven planetary rotations from some arbitrary offset just like on Earth.

If Alcubierre drives can cheat the speed of light. Wouldn't we need to setup relay ships to have FTL communication? How would the internet work if you had to send your data through a physical spaceship?

>>12015460
You just need to play around with it to get orbits that will intercept the next planet in the chain of gravity assists after some number of revolutions.

>>12015461
The extra half hour of every Martian day-night cycle (24.5 hours long) is God's half hour, and the seventh day after the first manned Mars landing is the day of rest.

This shit doesn't even look pressurized, look at that crinkled line going down the center of it. Why the fuck do they continue pumping nitrogen into it?

>>12015489
to take out the crinkles dumbass

>>12015477
Be more like sending a telegram than anything.

Is the consensus that if you tried to pull any of that lightcone time fuckery that you would basically just slam into a wall of quantum interference that makes retrocasaulity impossible? CTC must just be an artifact of limited theory.

>>12015489
How about I put a crinkled line down your skull?

>>12015494
It's just fucking leaking. Take that one to the scrap heap, Elon.

>>12015385
Thanks. I'm just hoping this covid shit will die down sufficiently by then for in-person networking to be commonplace again.

>>12015477
>If Alcubierre drives can cheat the speed of light. Wouldn't we need to setup relay ships to have FTL communication?
Yes.
>How would the internet work if you had to send your data through a physical spaceship?
Store-and-forward protocols like UUCP and ships become digital mailbags. IPFS for data storage.

>>12015477
It would like in the olden times, when you would communicate via messengers and pigeons, except instead of a bird/person, you would have an FTL spaceship. Very inconvenient. Maybe we could make a network of autonomous flying hard drives that receive data from orbit and engage warp to another system. With enough of these, delay would be significantly decreased.

>>12015509
>autonomous flying hard drives
you mean like a spaceship?

>>12015509
>AWS server in orbit around earth
>every ms you have a ship coming and leaving
>downloading and uploading data in massive datadumps as quickly as possible
Imagine the amount of ships, logistics and planning to get speeds down to normal pings between solar systems or worse galaxies

>>12015522
Latency = c / distance plus network lag. You will never, ever have something like the current internet span between planets, let alone star systems, without FTL communication.

>>12015043
Yea I dunno, I was just shooting.

>>12015484
I like this

>>12015540
>In the middle of bumfuck nowhere, far away from Earth
>Get an urgent call from Starfleet Command w/ absolutely zero latency
This shit always confused me, but I guess it’s just a plot device so everyone can communicate. Is FTL communication even theoretically possible (besides like, entangled particles or something?)

>hybrid lander and general purpose crew/cargo vehicle
>launched traditionally vertically stacked

This is genius, why can't NASA build something like that?

Wait this is basically what Starship is gonna be right?

>>12015557
no, not even with entangled particles

>>12015559
yeah

>>12015565
Well NASA should have done it along time ago

roover

>>12015559
Its Lockheed Mars lander.

>>12015559
>Wait this is basically what Starship is gonna be right?
Yea pretty much.

>>12015559
It’s starship but shittier. You have hydromeme and SRB first stages here. This thing will barely even make it to orbit lmao

>>12015568
>flat antenna instead of deployable antenna
never gonna make it

>>12015577
The new version has it, I changed how it deploys too.

>>12015575
>hydromeme

what does starship use, kerolox?

>>12015557
>but I guess it’s just a plot device so everyone can communicate
Yep. Star Trek is morality plays with a vaguely space-ish backdrop. Looking too hard at the technobabble only makes you crazy.

>>12015585
methalox
it's not ideal (that would be propane and liquid oxygen) but it's really good

>>12015585
Starship's Raptor engines use Methalox. LCH4+LO2, for both first and second stage. You get much better bulk density and don't need the advanced bullfuckery of trying to contain propellant that fucking leaks out between the molecules of your tank, which is why it's stainless steel instead of orangetankbad.

>>12015582
deployment is all about style

kerbal 2 when

Titan is so badass bros

I hope i live long enough for us to start doing more there.

>>12015615
new progress video when

>>12015466
>literally combine the worst parts of solid motors and liquid engines
Not really. They can be much simpler than liquid engines while being much more controllable than solids. They only get the worst of both when you try to apply them like a liquid engine or a solid motor instead of taking advantage of their traits.

t. propulsion engineer

>>12015618
I hope to be part of the first colonization efforts with titan.

>>12014822
>all my science has to be dry and boring with no entertainment value

>>12015620
I would settle for a blogpost with a single screenshot and text blurb.

>>12015615
After I make my first munar base that I've been putting off since forever.

>>12015477
>>12015507
So basically the space internet would be like big trucks hauling bulk data on regular routes, and not like the series is of data tubes we have today.

>>12015644
She's gone from suck to blow!

>>12015641
>amazing boner inducing trailer
>followed by radio silence
>then news on the dev team buyout shenanigans
>more silence
>meanwhile my balls are aching

send help

>>12015669
did you see Show and Tell?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiIea1xWEgY&feature=youtu.be&t=85

>>12015680
>Show and Tell
Couple of frames of show and no tell.

>>12015669
The had the PC Gamer article, and a few other little videos and forum posts. Latest update video was only 2 weeks ago.

Covid interrupted their plans to do high production dev diary videos, so hopefully that will get back on track soon.

>>12015661
Over long distances, yeah. Within a planetary system it'd be a regular Internet. Imagine a mailboat arrives at the primary spaceport orbiting Mars or a gas giant, connects a big fat fiber optic cable, and dumps all the queued data into the station's mail server. Then that server uses the station's communication lasers to beam any forwarded mail to the nearby moons or planetary surface. The process happens in reverse for outgoing mail.

If you want an IRL example of how this works check out AWS Snowball, which uses big trucks to upload petabytes of data to AWS at once.

>>12015587

>>12015694
Is this practical? Why not just beam direct messages with lasers or something. There will always be a time delay from planet to planet anyways

>>12015614
are you using a sepotron to blow your rover away from the lander

>>12015738
it's a small liquid fuel engine, not a sepratron, but same idea yes

>My battery is low, and it's getting dark

>>12015737
Like I said it's for petabytes of data. At 1Gbps a petabyte takes a million seconds, or over eleven days, to upload, assuming you're not using that connection for anything else. If you're using that 1Gbps connection to run your business it would take months to upload a petabyte. There's an old saying in tech, "never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."

>>12015748
That's' a very funny saying and a very clever idea then I guess. I'm sure places like Mars will eventually develop their own "intranet". Big data loads will need to get there from Earth somehow though

Who here /recoverablespaceprogram/?

>>12015765
Exactly. Within a planetary system you have an Internet, and the stations serve as relay points between them for long distance communications.

>>12015497
In my opinion, this is an excellent opportunity to test how to repair a leaking starship rather than scrap it, and then test how a repaired starship holds up in flight.

>>12015587
Out of curiosity for the chemistry/physics, why does everyone say propalox would be the best?

>>12015788
>why does everyone say propalox would be the best?
everybody doesn't, its like 1 or 2 posters

>>12015788
density
if you cool propane down to liquid oxygen temperatures and then store it at 6 bar or so, it's denser than kerosene and still gets better ISP

>>12015796
its bad for re-usability though because more soot and it burns hotter

>>12015796
Is there a place I can compare rocket fuel easily? How does it stack up against methane

>>12015800
not an issue for F9 on kerosene, it won't be an issue for propane
>>12015802
>how does it stack up against methane
slightly worse ISP
much better density

>>12015805
>not an issue for F9 on kerosene, it won't be an issue for propane
when you plan on 1000 flight reusability, it very well might be an issue.

>>12015805
Coking is always a fucking issue, that's why they're autistically distilling RP-1 until it's so clean you can almost drink it.

>>12015747
Don‘t worry. We‘ll dust it off in a couple of years.

>>12014907
Good grief anon, how large is your hard drive if you have such a random folder?

>>12014907
Love the enthusiasm from the 'tism anon

Can some one post the ”go for mars next?” meme?

>>12015899

Orbital refineries!

Soft landing of spaceplanes from carriers in orbit!

>>12015921

>>12015903
i feel oddly proud that my shitposts have been saved by someone else

>>12015934
A rocket to lift Alabama into space!

Okay listen up
How about instead of bringing ourselves to space... We bring space to us!

...is this why we need orbital depots AND orbital propellant refineries?

Just look at the delta-v to get into Earth orbit makes me sweat.

>>12015091
Could not agree more, fucker makes the only space videos where I actually learn something

>>12015934
>>12015940
Guys I think we've been going at this the wrong way.
>get internet frogposters and 2huposters declared an underrepresented minority
>Trump is now a minority President
>register 4ASS as a minority owned business to be eligible for those extra fed shekels
>combine NASA grant farming with Opportunity Zone grant farming to build weird experimental rockets and spacecraft
>set up shop in Alabama so Shelby can't object
>start proonting SRBs and propalox rockets
>acquire those guys making warp drives in Nebraska
>bring Prof. McCulloch over from bongistan to keep him safe from the Speech Loicenses and attract DARPA money

>>12015966
Yes, that leg of the delta V map is usually captioned "fuck you."

If all the smallsat launchers suddenly went out of business, which people and technology would be the most valuable assets to larger organizations?

>>12015979
Well sam here probably knows where the One Ring is hidden

What have I created....

>>12015987
>I don't think we'll make back into orbit again, Mr. Frodo.

>>12015979
Probably Rocket Lab.
>proonted engine tech
>proonted carbon fiber bodies
>parachute capture of first stages (ULA would pay a crapload of money for this alone to advance SMART)
>upper stage engines that don't require helium
>launch sites in Virginia and NZ
>dedicated delivery bus kick stages that can be scaled up for larger rockets carrying more smallsats

>>12015966
>>12015972
The fact that we didn't make putting fuel into Earth orbit so we don't all waste it just trying to leave orbit our top priority is ridiculous

We should have smaller depots in LEO and larger fuel storage facilities in higher orbits, so you reach orbit, refuel and then reach a higher orbit and dock to a larger fuel station, now you are ready to explore further

>>12015989
A skinnyfat F9 knockoff?

>>12015988
Flip around the upper tank on the first stage and tuck the engines up into the bottom one.

>>12015988
man KSP rockets are looking so professional now

>>12015994
Ooops, meant for >>12015988

>>12015992
It's literally all Senator Shelby's fault. Depots mean smaller rockets can do any mission, which means the SLS will get cancelled, which will wreck his state's space sector unless ULA gets big enough to absorb all the contractors.

Still doing cryo tests over at SN6.

>>12016008
>the logical and sensible approach isn't used because it will interfere with a politicians constituency

man

FUCK POLITICS

>>12015991
>parachute capture of first stages (ULA would pay a crapload of money for this alone to advance SMART)
How much would Rocket Lab's parachute recovery tech really help ULA? The actual recovery with the chute and the helicopter isn't too novel, and I'm sure ULA has easy access to expertise with that. The tough part would be the reentry of the engines, and the inflatable heat shield that's supposed to use has much different characteristics than the skinny Electron.

>>12015966
If you're used to stock KSP, it's extremely difficult to make stages with more than 3-4000 m/s. IRL (or at least using RO level mass fractions) it's quite a bit easier OT make 5-6000 m/s stages, higher if you have some cryogenic engines installed.

It's still a bitch, but it's not quite as extreme as it seems just looking at the number. Stock KSP engines and fuel tanks suck ass.

>>12015839
1tb
>>12015890
Yea this is basically how I learned to photoshop...


Hey lads check out my MS-104.

>>12016021
GOD DAMMIT!

>>12015477
Just use subspace

>>12016016
The good news is that if one of the several teams working on reactionless drives successfully delivers a commercial product, all this stops mattering and we can leapfrog his gay objections.

>>12016033
>reactionless drives

What would that look like? How would it take off Earth, how would it not need fuel?

>>12015992
>now there boy, you know how I feel about the D-word

>>12016025
>SHIT'S ON FIRE BUT I'M HAVING THE TIME OF MY LIFE!
Fucking Kerbals, man.

I don't get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vamf4-X7R6w

What do you think of my SRB-only Space Shuttle?

>>12016025
There are many ways to a kerbals heart, but you have to take it with a lot of V

>>12016036
There are two competing hypotheses. One is working on Alcubierre drives, a concept created explicitly to make Star Trek ships work in General Relativity. The other is Quantized Inertia, which claims that the conservation is mass-energy-information, while also making information relative between frames, and so you cheat conservation of momentum a bit. Physically, both of the drive concepts look like truncated cones. The power source for both is electricity, which means you need either beamed power or onboard nuclear reactors for real torch ships, but solar power and RTGs are fine for probes or slower (still way faster than chemical rockets) manned craft.

>>12016025
>NF-104 on Mars
kek

>>12016062
May your plooms guide the way for us all to follow

Godspeed

>>12016062
I think it's probably safer than the real shuttle because it doesn't have that damn tank flaking out on to the tiles. If you made the tiles saner it would be a legitimate contender.

>>12016063
wanna bang female kerbals

>>12016068
Aerospike is the answer for all your questions. Or a '99 Renault Twingo with linear aerospike

>>12016079
Spacecars with launch from suburbs and soft landing on same suburbs when?

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>12016096
he's ploooooooooooming

>>12016087
Fully fueled SS/SH is going to look sick as fuck

>>12016087
Looks like its winding down once more. They might be fully satisfied now.

>>12016096
FUND IT IRL

>>12014784
>not the Americans i hope
anon...

>>12015989
Io is mordor

We need to go bigger

reminder

>>12016148
this is absolutely cursed

>>12016149
>reminder
All promises of exotic technologies lie in the domain of charlatans and frauds.

>>12016149
BS
thunderf00t told me so

Who needs d*pos when you can just strap a few skyscrapers of solid rocket fuel to your spaceplane?

>>12016148
>>12016164
>DIRECT LUNAR ASCENT SOLID FUELED SPACEPLANES

Actually if you can crank the SRBs out cheap enough that's not a bad approach to reusability.

>>12016164
Shelby is pleased

>>12016169
>Actually if you can crank the SRBs out cheap enough that's not a bad approach to reusability.
That's why the actual Space Shuttle was so retarded. Either go full reuse like SpaceX or just cheap dumb SRBs that you can throw out because they cost peanuts compared to an engine like the RS-25.
SS tried to do both and failed.

Science isn't about "why?" it's about "why not?"

>>12016173
The best part is that you can just leave the SRBs lying around at different spaceports and fly the orbiters and crew to the optimal spot for each launch. Imagine a shuttle launch from Alaska to snatch an enemy satellite out of polar orbit.

>>12015998
Yeah, that because of Bluedog design bureau and procedural fairings

>>12016186
Does making the SRBs that much bigger even get you any extra delta-v? You've got to be hitting Isp limits or close to it.

alright, here's a compromise guys: solid fuel depots

>>12016186
How you make srb so big?

>>12016149
He did post a thread and it died with zero replies because it was /x/ tier technobabble

>>12016204
Hypergolic-solid fuel depots when bros?

>>12016201
Does making the SRBs that much bigger even get you any extra delta-v?
No. At this point the weight of the Orbiter is irrelevant. This thing can't even make it to orbit, it just looks awesome.

>>12016207
Tweakscale mod.

>>12016207
tweakscale

>>12016078
DON'T!
>>12016085
Elon once made an interesting poi nt in asking if you wanted your neighbours to have a flying car.
Despite the obvious answer I'd go with hell yeah, I have no real enemies and nothing to loose and I'm surely gonna enjoy all the drama.

>>12016211
kek

>>12016217
>DON'T!
you're not gonna stop me faggot

We strip mine the surface of Triton of nitrogen. Then using catapults and giant steel bottles. We crash it into Mars. Then also do the same on Europa and Enceladus with water and dry ice. The bottles will be built in the Belt.

>>12016230
If we have mines on Triton what the fuck do we need to terraform Mars for? Just build more spinny habs.

>>12016211
>Open cargo bay
>There's another SRB inside

>>12016078
t.

>>12016223
Not me, but my satellite network with enough delta -V to deorbit and not burn up left in it can teach you a thing or two about kinetic energy. You may call it terrorism, I call it "isolated incidents"!

PLUME KINO ALERT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvTRrR5FbyM

>>12016237
Is that Justin Biber?

>>12016245
Who is Justice Beaver?

>>12016244
>Sends you tumbling into a spin after first stage seperation; parachutes are burned to a crisp
Nothing personnel human

>>12016244
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-C-ApyyHBA

>>12016231
To have open sky over our heads and never having to fear the loss of atmosphere and gravity.

Post aesthetic spaceplanes

>>12016209
>hypergolic solid fuel
kek

>>12016268
>Hypergolic-solid fuel
so, antimatter?

>>12016268
literally AlLox in vacuum.

>>12016265

>>12016244
>Constellation fanboys on /sci/

>>12016265
This guy's whole channel basically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QiI_swznf8

>>12016277
>This isn't videogames.
>This is real

>>12016278
>comparing a test article to the real (virtual) thing

okay

>>12016244
>Orion with European Service Module on an Ares I
dammit, so close

>>12016289
looks good

>>12016244
Imagine the repair costs per launch...

>>12016278
500 mil later.

>>12016296
Can't be worse than Shuttle

Okay last one. I think it's pretty. And I know spaceplanes don't work IRL but they just look so cool. Maybe when we have super-efficient nuclear thermal engines we can afford to make them.

>>12016284
>real (virtual)

>>12016240
not gonna stop me and me penis on the quest for kerbal strange

>>12016278
Why not wait for residual thrust to die off before stage separation? Seems like an amateurish mistake.

>>12016299
>Fixed Service Structure at LC-39B received significantly more direct rocket exhaust than occurs during a normal Space Shuttle launch. The resulting damage was reported as "substantial," with both pad elevators rendered inoperable, all communication lines between the pad and launch control destroyed and all outdoor megaphones melted. The vehicle-facing portions of the Fixed Service Structure appear to have suffered extreme heat damage and scorching, as do the hinge columns supporting the Rotating Service Structure.

>>12015988
El monstruo...

>>12016294
>tfw no J-2X
Fuck the RL-10-laden monstrosity that is the EUS.

>>12016307
>Seems like an amateurish mistake.
What an excellent summary of everything NASA has done since the 80s.

>>12016164
Give this TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT a cost plus contract

>>12016315
That was the intention anyways before they build a new launchpad built to accomodate it

People forget ARES 1-X was a testbed, with a mass simulator on top and a 4 segment SRB instead of 5, there was a lot to work out, but thats what testbeds are for.

>>12016326
AT least it's not ICPS

>>12016337
>Insane Clown Posse Stage
Fucking rockets, how do they work?

What the fuck is their end goal exactly??

>>12016186
Elon Musk is fairly close to being an IRL Cave Johnson.

>>12016345
get everybody high

>>12016345
Universal domination

Looks like SN6 cryo was a success, might see another hop in a week or 2.

>>12016345
To rent unitedly

>>12016345
Ur Penis

I M A G I N E

>>12016435
why are the wings so big

I wonder if any of their manufacturing DOEs are biased because of funny numbers.

>>12016435
What warfighting capabilities could Starship realistically have?

Besides of course the obvious nukes from orbit. Hunting down individual satellites?

>>12016471
Global troop transport

>>12016471
Ability to deploy satellites, capture/steal satellites, rods from gods deployment, etc. Not only that, Starship could potentially shoot down any other competitive rockets with a laser sniper

>>12016435
Badass/10. I wonder if a starship in general would have better capabilities than a satellite or SR-71. Maybe if you needed reconnaissance photos ASAP and didn’t have a satellite over an area

>>12016435
Cockpit is fucking cool. If you had the money and ability to customize a Starship from SpaceX I would want these windows

>>12016451
Same reason for the shuttle, presumably. Being able to launch, deploy a payload, and land in friendly territory in a single orbit has obvious military applications.

>>12016497
When has the shuttle ever used that ability?

>>12016479
Starship has enough mass budget that you could have a door gunner with an M2.
>oh hey that enemy spy satellite made of mylar and fairy dust is getting too close to our troops
>DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

Weird-ass question hear, but will "narco-sats" ever be a thing in the future when reusable launch hardware drives down payload cost enough?

Essentially the Colombian drug cartels funding and building their own spy satellites to track law enforcement movements. They would use dummy engineering companies to pose as innocuous launch customers, though this wouldn't fool American launch providers they can probably trick Russia or China to launch their payloads.

They already have their own tanks and submarines, so this wouldn't be that much of a stretch. Law enforcement is already fighting a loosing battle against them. This is where the Space Force would actually be useful.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco_tank

>>12016497
The wing size is why the Shuttle was a side-hanger so I don't see a Starship variant replicating that.

>>12016504
The cartels sell Chinese fentanyl. The PLA probably warns them already when they can.

>>12016504
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised to see them actually attack american satellites with these.

>>12016501
The old Soviet space labs had 23mm cannons on them.

>>12016435
OH FUC

>>12016504

If the cartels actually do manage to launch one I will laugh my fucking ass off into next Thursday.

God damn.

>>12016435
>Big Black Craft

>>12016504
The other Anons are right, fucking pinkos already happily support the cartels because they sow chaos throughout all of the Americas, their corruption has rotted many south, central American, and the Mexican governments to their cores, and their drug trade causes constant chaos in the US and costs us an enormous amount in resources and lives, as well as absorbing the attention of American government and local assets who could be more productively used elsewhere.

>>12016555
Sina delenda est.

>>12014777
Hopefully self-replicating constructors. I’m not sure why more research isn’t devoted to creating them since they would allow us to effortlessly* colonize an entire planet.

>>12016574
Let's just hope we don't elect the modern day Corculum, he'd much rather sell the entire Republic off to China for some kickbacks. Assuming of course he's still actually capable of cognition of that sort.

>>12016435
Imagine this fucker doing a backflip landing burn on the Washington Mall and then Trump stepping out.

>>12016592
It would un-ironically look pretty slick in the Trump company livery.

>>12016592

>>12016589
What are Kamala's ties with China? Can she be bought out by them?

>>12016500
Never, but it's the whole reason the Air Force pushed for NASA to modify the design to include the wings.

>>12016619
huh, so why did the remake Endeavour the same way?

>>12016618
China has a billion dollar leash on Biden. Mao was backed by a bunch of Jews, and Harris is married to one.

>>12016622
Bureaucratic inertia, probably.

>>12016618
She's the kind of backstabber who will do anything for anyone as long as she can get more power. She might not be in the pocket of the CCP now, but they could put her there easily.

>>12016631
>>12016625
Man what a clusterfuck, at least with Trump we know where his loyalties lie (Israel)

>>12016435

>>12016636
>MUH DESERT PAVEMENT
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

>>12016652

>>12016587
We don't even have self-replication working right in software. I sure as shit don't want it happening with hardware before we avoid the gray goo problem.

t. SDE

>>12016671
Yeah, mass automation/self replicating construction isn't going to be used anytime soon.

>>12016468
IT CAN'T KEEP HAPPENING

>>12016602
mine is better than yours

>recoverable gliding 1st stage engines

This is so fucking cool, I wonder if it wouldn't be more simple than full booster recovery SpaceX is doing now

>>12016731
Full booster recovery requires the use of off the shelf computer parts for faster processing. Ten years ago, with only Officially Aerospace Certified parts? Wouldn't be possible.

>>12016602
God Valentina is so cute

>>12016738
I mean now, would such a concept implemented now work, like for the Vulcan rocket which is trying for engine recovery, couldn't this concept work?

>>12016731
It was probably simpler and easier, but an issue is that it would have an advantage over flyback boosters if done by a competent agency more than a decade ago. Now, the performance and recovery gain of flyback boosters has been established already.

>>12016731
SMART seems to be much better. Gliding capsules would be complex as fuck. Especially since Vulcan and SLS put the first stage high up so the wimpy second has enough time to burn before reentering.

>>12016731
Sea Dragon recovered the first stage by a giant inflatable drag cone/chute.

>>12016731
Imagine the TWR of the little flying engine ship

>>12015644
Oh god someone saved my shitpost

>>12015644
>>12016802
This was posted on a rough day for me a couple of weeks ago and made me laugh out loud. Thanks anon

>>12016785
Pretty high, considering it probably only carries five seconds worth of fuel.

New thread >>12016834

>>12016848
>page 4

>>12016711
I can see that, I will now steal it.

>>12016711
>>12016872
you know what i do to it

>>12016848
Everyone look, look at this imbecile and laugh.

>>12016925
>Dragon on top of Falcon Heavy

>>12016949
Yes, and?

>>12016949
Red Dragon to autonomously return Perseverance's sample tubes for them when

>>12016872
This looks like the train from Goldeneye

>>12016949
moonshot flyby configuration

imgur.com/pKKyjIk.jpg

Make a new thread at page 10, a real one. Current new one is just shitposting

>>12014825
Explain what's wrong with the comments.

>>12014850
>I just can't stand them. Do I need a reason?
>Muh feelings

>>12017020
holy fuck based

>>12017020
/kspg/ tier deviancy

>>12014877

Technically, you don't have to modify Dragon at all. You'd have to modify Dragon XL (which is basically a heavily modified F9/FH second stage). It has enough volume (internal) to support all those requirements and provide a livable space for the crew for a long-duration mission.

According to this chart (measurement is in feet): https://www.spacelaunchreport.com/f9dim1s.jpg, the distance from the base of the 2nd stage fuel tank to the top is ~360 feet. The rocket and 2nd stage thereby are 12' 2" wide. Let's make it 12' for the diameter. So internal reference volume for the 2nd stage is: 40,715 cubic feet. Let's assume that of that 12 feet diameter, we will loose approximately 4 feet for all the insulation, protection, instrumentation, electrical and life support systems, you're left with 8 feet diameter of usable space. That's still 4 feet radius with 360 feet height of the cylinder, giving you a usable volume of: 18,095 cubic feet.

That's a lot of space. Pic related is Dragon V2. It was originally designed to ferry up to 7, some internal cargo, and the rest in the trunk attachment. It now ferries 4, with much more internal cargo volume + the rest in the trunk. The picture also gives you a size of the 2nd stage the black interstage above the first stage is where the engine is, so we can discard that. But up to the trunk from the engine bell to the trunk area, is a considerable amount of space. You could easily create a livable area for a crew of 4-6 plus all the cargo and life support and other systems in it. Dragon V2 would be the central controller, but the external of the 2nd stage modified Dragon XL would house the rest. The capsule would connect with the XL version and they would experience a synergy.

I know NASA likes having all in one systems, but those fuckers need to start looking at space more objectively and with a modular focus.

>tfw caught the bat soup and now playing ksp is too hard
its all over for me bros...

>>12015507

If Alcubierre drives work, it should help us understand quantum mechanics better; probably. In which case, it should help us come to a conclusion of Mass Effect style QECs are technically viable or not. If they are, FTL communication problems are solved forever. Else, we'll need relays of some sort.

explosion welding starship when?

>>12017154
I love how the grillers in the middle get the propane question
everything else about this one is dumb

>>12017124
If Alcubierre drives work then squeezing more kW/kg and more kW/m^3 out of a nuclear reactor should be the only propulsion adjacent technology NASA ever has to worry about again. Getting a full spacecraft to 0.1kW/kg wpuld allow the 15N/kW drive to loft from Earth. No rockets needed.

>>12017156
Of course a Q > 1 fusion reactor would help a lot on that front too.

>>12017154
fucking amazing

bros how do I get infinite money to make the perfect KSP?

>>12017154
>Elon and Bezos
>right
>soijacks
You're the reason /sci/ has gone to shit these past few months

>>12017168
>Elon and Bezos
>right
Would you not say they are probably economically more right wing?
>soijacks
>You're the reason /sci/ has gone to shit these past few months
>nooooo you have to the memes I LIKE or you're trashing the thread!!!111

>>12017169
You smell fresh out of reddit

>>12017174
>If you're not a leftist, you're fresh out of reddit!
Faggot

>>12017174
You smell like a projecting insecure faggot

>>12017179
There is a small group of faggots on /sfg/ who believe anybody who doesn't have the exact political philosophy as them is new for some reason.

>>12017177
>If you're not a leftist
Who's talking about politics?
I love SpaceX but these threads have attracted retarded teenagers

>>12017182
The original anon implied that believing elon and or bezos to be "right" and using the "soijacks" meme indicated you were a newfag crossposters because he probably thinks the only people who don't have his political affiliation on /sfg/ are from /pol/.

>>12017186
How is posting soijack reddit bullshit that has plagued all boards not a clear sign you don't belong in /sci/?

>>12017181
if you're not a contolist you're a faggot

>>12017181
Transparent /pol/ bait and politics belongs in >>>/pol/

>>12017190
It doesn't come from reddit. Faggots on reddit commonly take memes from 4chan in general and repurpose it yes, but it doesn't mean those memes originate on reddit.

>>12017195
>Transparent /pol/ bait and politics belongs in >>>/pol/
The post wasn't "pol bait". If you believe any meme or post that doesn't reflect your ideology comes from /pol/, you're a retarded schizo who belongs on >>>/x/

>>12017020
dangerously based

>>12017197
eh? politics belongs on /pol/, dumbass

REUSABLE
HYDROLOX
UPPER STAGES

>>12017197
>/pol/ images, buzzwords and the ideology graph that literally comes from /pol/ are not /pol/
Ok anon

>>12017200
I wonder if Starship is doable with hydrolox...

>>12017199
politics can be relevant to spaceflight
>>12017205
the ideology graph doesn't come from pol retard

>>12017208
>the ideology graph doesn't come from /pol/
you need to include both slashes when you use a board name, redditor
also, it doesn't matter if it didn't come from there, that's where it needs to go

If you're not a contolist you don't belong in this thread

>>12017206
Hydrolox Starship is basically the Shuttle.
>can't put heavy payloads on your fragile tank so hang it off the side
>hydrolox can't first stage for shit so add some SRBs
>hydrolox can't retropropulsively land big payloads, so add wings and landing gear

>>12017217
no, integral second stage hydrolox tank
I don't care how you get it to staging velocity, just that it can get to orbit and then back again

>>12017218
Well in that case I very much doubt it's possible. Pure hydrolox would need 3STO and some chunky SRBs for the third stage to land propulsively.

>>12017208
Your little meme graph is not the politics that are concerned with space flight

THIS ION BURN IS TAKING FOREVER IM GOING INSANNEEE IM LOSING MY FUCKING MIND AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUAEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>12017221
Do a crossword.

>>12017221
Just accelerate time.

>>12017221
That's low thrust engines for ya.

>>12017221
>using ion engines without https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/194707-1711811911101-persistent-thrust-extended-175-now-with-background-persistent-thrust/
BRUH

>>12017221
that's why you need multiple computers so you can play KSP while also playing a different game at the same time

>Arguably the most significant event from this launch was the ET bipod ramp shedding a chunk of foam, estimated to be ~4"x5"x12", that broke away and hit the lower left SRB-ET Attach Ring near the Integrated Electronics Assembly (IEA) box causing a dent ~4" wide and 3" deep into the solid metal.[3] Prior to approval for the next mission, the situation was analyzed and NASA decided to press ahead under the justification that "The ET is safe to fly with no new concerns (and no added risk)"[9] of further foam strikes.

>>12016186
Science isn't really about "why not?" either, it's about "why haven't we done this already?"

>>12016186
Shakes so hard the whole cabin needs to be filled with a breathable liquid so you can float

>>12017373
imagine the smell

>>12016731
That's shittier Energia 2.

bros, important question
should I use straight or curved fairings here

>>12017524
nekkid

How often does wood go up into space? I imagine some things on the ISS. What about wooden rocket panels or structural stuff, has that ever flown?

>>12017531
isnt that illegal

>>12017534
add more struts

>>12017539
can you recommend any contractors for certified aerospace grade titanium alloy struts

>>12017550
RMI Titanium Co, out of Niles
I think they do some struts for SpaceX

bros im gonna do it, im gonna take the hydroloxpill

Missed the cryo. Is everything fine? Seems like it from the cam.

>>12017760
there was a test?

>>12014822
>>12014838
based, Kurzgesagt is brainletcore

Guys, I think I've found a solution for turbomachinery. Just model it in something like solidworks and then PROOOOOOOOONT it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ndyvhjk60

What will be the first words on mars be? Can Neil Armstrong be topped?

>>12017894
enjoy the refreshing taste of Coca-Cola

>>12017894
>oh, that's soft and queezy
thanks, Pete

>>12017894
AEIOU!

OH GOD I'M PLOOOOOMING
https://youtu.be/HXHMfMju77g

daily reminder that solids are ONLY acceptable if you're just using them because it keeps your ICBM production alive
imagine being a country without icbms and using solids lmfao

okay I think I finally finished this piece of shit after tweaking it all night
I still haven't sent out any interplanetary probes yet this game so I built this shit to just yeet it at as many planets as I can reach for flybys or orbital insertions depending on the dv, uses whatever fumes are left in the upper stage + hydrolox yeet tank + a big bucket of MMH on the probe itself, plus like 5 science cores stuffed full of experiments and the biggest antenna I could find in the junkyard

Elon's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts