/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11924962
based and RESULTSpilled

Atlas V Heavy > Delta IV Heavy

>>11924962
They seem to be a pretty SMART company. Hopefully they have some ACES up their sleeve.

>>11924968
look at the top of his HEAD

>>11924962
>Hydrolox first stage
>perfection

>>11924972
You may not like it, but hydrolox booster-sustainer first stages are what peak performance looks like.

>>11924969
When are they supposed to start this? This is actually really cool and a great first start.

why is falcon so fucking anorexic bros
chode rockets WHEN

>>11924988
starship soon brother

There was literally nothing wrong with the Space Shuttle.

>>11924968
You won't find any argument from me, other than that paper rockets don't count.

>>11924988
Elon likes them skinny

>>11924990
The only thing wrong with the Space Shuttle was that NASA was ever given the budget to launch it at its intended cadence.

>>11924981
No set date nor launch for SMART, but it would most likely happen after the first or second launch of Vulcan. ACES was killed completely, some speculate due to Senator Shelby disliking propellant depots.

>>11924988
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8JyvzU0CXU&t=35s
Expect this in early 2021.

>When recovering all three booster cores, GTO payload is 8,000 kg (18,000 lb).[1] If only the two outside cores are recovered while the center core is expended, GTO payload would be approximately 16,000 kg (35,000 lb).[69] As a comparison, the next-heaviest contemporary rocket, the fully expendable Delta IV Heavy, can deliver 14,210 kg (31,330 lb) to GTO.[83]
lmao holy shit oldspace whats WRONG with you

>>11924988
18m SS will be quite rotund

>>11924998
>>11924989
starship needs a THICCCER booster with a nice taper at the top for maximum chode aesthetics

>>11925001
Don't forget that a completely expendable Falcon Heavy costs $150M per launch, while the Delta IV Heavy $350M per launch.

>>11925004
>>11925002

>>11925002
>Never talk to me or my son or my cat again

>>11925002
>not including the 110m diameter version

>>11924993
is that a tesla logo

>>11925002
>>11925017
>Gigachad Starship with a fairing big enough to carry a fully-fueled SLS into LEO
>This marks the first time an SLS has launched

>>11925023

>>11925025
To be fair, SLS will probably launch at least for the first three 3 artemis missions. But I doubt any of the later versions of it will ever fly.

>>11925025
>the engines are removed from the core stage and it's big chungus ZBO hydrologs tanks become... depots

more boost WHEN

>>11925038
>>11925002

>>11925034
Fill the SLS tanks with whiskey for the Mars colonists.
Best possible use for it.

Direct Pluto launch when?

>>11925051
Nah, replace whiskey with watered down ethanol and some tanks of laughing gas. Recreational enjoyment of legitimate rocket propellant.

>>11925052
>>11925038
Jeez you suck at Photoshop

>>11925055
But whiskey is the drink of cowboys and the first Martian settlers will be cowboys

>>11924988
LOX/Kerosene is on the high end of density for bipropellants, so you can store a larger weight of it in a smaller tank.

>>11925063
Whiskey is the drink of the Old West because it was the best way for farmers to sell off their excess grain production. Whatever intoxicants are most easily grown on site will be the cultural emblem of Mars. That might be vodka given how potatoes will grow in Martian regolith.

>>11925052
You are like little baby

>>11925069
>getting drunk on Mars with all of your fit and intelligent colony friends
sounds like a blast bros

>>11925069
>not just making ethanol from the algae tanks

>>11925088
>drinking ethanol with your friends while watching Martian dust devils lazily wander around while you all make bets whenever two such whirlwinds cross paths on which one would come out more dominant as if you were watching some fight
A blast indeed.

>>11924998
Why SpaceX is so perfect

>>11924998
>ass to ass

>>11925090
If you can make yeast you can make beer.

>>11925111
But why would anyone intentionally drink beer? Might as well drink the pisslock.

Thoughts?

>>11925118
because it’s relaxing, and great for drinking games

>>11925135
will be obsolete once it is ready

lol nitrous oxide is great,shame you have to either huff it out of whipped cream canisters like a 13 year old or use a dentist's supply somehow. It's honestly so gay that you can't buy pre-mixed breathing nitrous as a civilian adult-we're allowed to buy everclear by the pint but not a little laughing gas? who makes these rules?

>>11925135
let's be honest, it should be the other way around

>>11925149
>>11925135
the AMERICAN future of SPACE

>>11925146
nitrous is neurotoxic, don't breathe it
no "they" don't "mix in a neurotoxin", the fucking gas itself kills your brain cells as it gets you high

>>11925146
Jews

TFW no seven-core Delta Ultra Heavy

>>11925209
That would be so fucking cool

>>11924996
ACES was not killed completely, everything except for the sun shield was rolled into the Vulcan Centaur improvements

>>11925209
I still wish they kept the blue insulation on the Delta IV like they originally planned. It makes it so much more unique.

>>11925221
this is what they took from you

will grimes be on mars? or will elon "accidentally" fire her ss into deep space.

>>11925279
she's going straight into uranus

>>11925299
>friday evening and all inhabitants of elongrad are compelled to go to the messhall and listen to grimes spit rhythms and clap enthusiastically at the end of each 12 minute song
we've gotta push her out the airlock

>>11925302
Throw her off the Olympus Rupes

>>11925209
Was that an official pic?

>Tsiolkovsky's equation has no asymptote, if you put it in a log graph, you see a straight line that goes on forever.

I've been agonising over a week about not being able to find out at what point any further increase in propellant becomes no longer increases delta-v. Apparently mathematically, there is no maximum point, only engineering-wise.

Mass reduction storage tech when?

>>11925405
yes, the asymptote is for real vehicles with dry mass

>>11925405
brainfart
could you not use the same technology that could make fusion work to store propellant at very dense sub-critical pressures
/brainfart

IT RISES

>>11925426
it's gonna fall over
screencap this

>>11925426
Why is the taco truck painted in imperial Japanese regalia? Lmao

>>11925426
Are they going to erect Starship vertically or horizontally?

>>11925445
what do you mean?

>>11925447
Horizontal or vertical integration.

>>11925453
we don't know how they're doing payload integration, but the vehicle is stacked vertically on the launch pad with a crane

>>11925453
>>11925445
E R E C T

>>11925454
No need for crawler transporter, krauts made these bad boys.

>>11925465
No you don't understand, we need to spend a billion dollars on a one off specialised piece of heavy machinery to carry it a few miles once every few years.

>>11925426
the fucking IJN lol

Starship is a spaceplane

>>11925515
Sure, why not?

>>11925515
Goliath is tank.

>>11925515
skydivers are birds

>>11925515
my mother is a nice person

>>11924993
dios mio...

>>11925002

>>11925552
Bros... I’m gonna bellyflop into that atmosphere and land ass-first

>>11925437
it's a secret message

>>11925562
US/Japan space alliance when?

>>11925565
the absolute manlet

>>11925565
I want to make money bros. Imagine sitting on so much money you can buy a rocket trip around the Moon. How the fuck do I take advantage of capitalism and get rich

>>11925645
I want to be the first person to nut on moon orbit.

>>11925648
you're a bit too late on that one

>>11925649
On high def camera

>>11925648
heh, what else did you think he was doing after Neil and Buzz left him alone in the CSM

>>11925735
I made photo of his suit in Moscow.

>>11925748
imagine the smell!

>>11925748
>tfw Buzz finds the cum suit

>>11925426
>>11925488

>>11925748
Why is his suit in Moscow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdoP1sJP_s

starship manuvering with canards looks pretty fuckin kino

>>11925368
pre-merger, yeah. there was a roadmap for Atlas to get that big too

>>11926020
"we've got a better SLS replacement! cheaper, higher performance! only catch is, we need to dump thirteen of those Russian engines into the ocean every launch"

>>11925135
Absolutely haram

>>11926027

>>11925934

>>11925628
Nah, Elon’s just fucking massive.

>>11925628
Elon's like 6'4 and the Yusuck is 5'5.

>>11925565
Now, actually. Trump and Abe have made us partners in military space as well as NASA/JAXA and private American companies.

>>11926027
Tory Bruno has been seen posting a physical model of a three core Vulcan Heavy on Twitter.

Robot manufacturing arriving in Boca. Kuka robotics.

>>11926396
Kuk = cock in Norwegian. Let's hope they don't cock it up.

>most people in air force space are hostile towards navy ranks for the space force
y tho

>>11926396
>Big dicc robots kuk all of Oldspace, fuk you ULA ur next.

>>11926396
The production rate is gonna be insane, hopefully they look better too. There's also the storm that's coming in, hopefully they finish the super highbay before then.

>>11926377
>>11926027
Yup, and no russian engines. Tory said vulcan heavy was theoretically compatible with SMART, but I'm increasingly doubtful SMART is gonna happen in any kind of timely fashion.

>>11926447
Airforce v Navy are competing for best elite officers.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/22/politics/china-us-houston-consulate-intl-hnk/index.html

Well well well. Let's hurry this whole space race 2 thing up.

>>11926454
By the time they get SMART working, Starship will exist. They need to treat Vulcan as an interim design like the Falcon Heavy and start work on a Starship competitor if they don't want to get permanently BTFO.

>new Space Force logo and motto to drop soon
Why? The current ones only existed for a couple of months.

>ranks still arent finalized
the state of the Space Force

>>11926447
>Fleet Admiral
>Admiral
>Captain
vs
>General of Space Force
>General
>Colonel

Navy rank fits space force better imo. We have Captain Picard, not Colonel Picard.

>Captain

>>11926469
they think starship won't pan out the way it was advertised or not at ll

>>11926471
Wait, he specified rank insignias, not ranks. Maybe we'll see ranks get released soon.

>>11926478
time to make something up

how did people in the past come up with the existing ranks in the first place?

>>11926479
Oh well. Nice knowing you, ULA.

>space force basic training to start in october
Imagine how ez mode it is.

>>11926454
>Tory said vulcan heavy was theoretically compatible with SMART, but I'm increasingly doubtful SMART is gonna happen in any kind of timely fashion.
It's pretty clear that SMART will take a while to come into fruition. ULA has some brilliant people, but they move at government speeds.

>>11926461
What did China steal this time?

>>11926486
>how did people in the past come up with the existing ranks in the first place?
really old english/loan words that have lost their other meanings. Not really something you can recapture in the modern day.

>>11926492
The hardest part will be playing Moonbase Alpha with TTS disabled.

space force motto is semper super, meaning always above

>>11926499
Just wait until they have to play Kerbal Space Program without map view nor time acceleration.

>>11926494
>What did China steal this time?
Lots of things.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-chinese-hackers-working-ministry-state-security-charged-global-computer-intrusion

>>11926494
2 hackers have been working unimpeded for 11 years. So much for US "intelligence".
https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/21/feds_charge_chinese_hackers/

>Space Force ranks won't be available any time soon because Congress is pushing for Navy ranks
Not sure if true but it seems like the case.

>>11926469
ULA is a completely different organization from SpaceX. They don't have the culture to innovate and radically shift design. They evolve.

Methalox and BE-4 are a step in the right direction. Next step is SMART and hopefully revival of ACES. As younger people come in and the Old Guard retires, and starship becomes a competitor for Gov't payloads, you'll see full reuse embraced by ULA.

I personally can't wait for Vulcan SuperHeavy with 24 strap-ons.

>>11926494
Yeah, ULA motto is 'Reliability Over Results'

>>11926514
>So much for US "intelligence".
During the Obama years, China hacked in to the federal agency that handled all the background checks for security clearances. They then killed all the CIA's agents inside China. Trump moved that responsibility to DoD and made cyber command a full combatant command so it's very easy to declare it an act of war now if they try again.

>>11926486
Admiral originates from Arab term for military commander, Emir. Adopted into Europe due to Arab naval activities and spread into Greeks.
General originates from the term Latin for "generalis" refering to "all kinds" (aka generic)
If we have to pick a new name for Space Force it would have to have similar meaning. For example,

Just finished reading an economic book (fuck economics). Now I want my mind out of this world. What book do you recommend? I will immediately start reading today a book you highly recommend. Thanks bros.

>>11926533
http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pdf

Everyone agrees with me. Read this.

>>11926533
"My little sister can't be this cute"

Space Force logo, the motto is Semper Supra ("always above")

>>11926521
>As younger people come in and the Old Guard retires, and starship becomes a competitor for Gov't payloads, you'll see full reuse embraced by ULA.
I can't wait for this to happen. Not just for ULA but for all companies/agencies. It's getting ridiculous for others to ignore the results of reusability, or in Roscosmos' case, claim that it's fake. Imagine the scramble to getting reusable rockets putting pressure on SpaceX to innovate harder.

>>11926539
>the Star Trek nerds are now in charge of a branch of the military
what the shit

>>11925103
You'll be drinking to forget,
Bemoaning how you are just freeloader living on taxpayer or musk money to satisfy his megalomania,
Doing nothing of importance until the next supply run come next year.
You'll remember how you should have chosen to go on the Moon, building real infrastructures for the future of Mankind.


btw I recommend this manga. It's an adaptation from a novel.
Plot is about dangerous AI.

>>11926539
Chevrons are over done.

>>11926542
Roscosmos is a skeleton. i doubt they get reuse unless we or someone else give it to them.

>>11926545
It's based. Just watched that episode. Why'd you webm that particular exchange lol

>>11926539
surely they could have picked something else

>>11926554
>Why'd you webm that particular exchange lol
I have a folder full, I picked it at random. What webm did you want?

>>11926553
Based. Starbursts are where it's at.

>>11926542
The good news is that at this point Starship-class spacecraft are inevitable. By that I mean TSTO fully reusable vehicles.

Falcon 9 is currently the best in the industry and everyone knows it. It’s also known that in order to beat SpaceX, costs MUST be lowered... which can be done by making a vehicle fully reusable.

I have a feeling that by 2030 there will be at least two or more fully reusable rockets flying that can place 20 tons into LEO. Not counting Starship.

In other news it’s funny that most of Starship’s criticism goes to it not being able to fly to Mars or being way more expensive than planned... and not the fact that a private company has the capability of building a 100 ton to LEO vehicle. If SpaceX decides “fuck it” they could make Starship expendable and put 200+ tons into LEO. And best of all, no one denies it.

>>11926539
Bro, is that logo an Asteroids reference?

>>11926565
Starbursts work. Anything but another chevron.

>>11926539
>>11926545
They also fudged the acronym to call their operations center "SPOC".

>>11926479
what if it actually pans out as advertised

>>11926577
Then every other space launch company is fucked until someone can build a Starship competitor.

>>11926539
("As Above, So Below")

New Army motto

>>11926584
why do they think SpaceX won't succeed with starship? They already have some of the most difficult elements worked out (engines, propulsive landing from orbit)

>>11926575
>call their operations center "SPOC".
FUCKING NEEEERRRRRRDDDDDDSSSS

>>11926479
Of course it won't. At least not at first. The Falcon 9 still hasn't met some of the promises made by SpaceX. However, the fact of the matter is that SpaceX made the best launch vehicle on the market right now despite falling short of their promises. SpaceX aims high to go high, whereas other companies and agencies try to be more "realistic" in their plans but still end up short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlnEUnweEF0
Testing

>>11926560
Idk man. I just thought there was a reason. How many do you have?

>>11926577
>>11926584
nah they'll make more money selling anti starship tech because china is for sure gonna make a copy

>>11926594
>How many do you have?
Folder full is an exaggeration.
My Star Trek folder has 350 things in it, maybe a third are webms.

>>11926591
Of course I think the first couple launches will cost upwards of 100 million dollars and have several week refurbishment times at the very least, but I think after a year or so they can get down to one week or possible 3-5 day refurbishment times between individual starship launches, with a 20 million per launch to LEO pricetag. Maybe by the late 2020s they can even get down to 2 million a flight.

>he's encouraging Space Force personnel to read Hidden Figures and other diversity books
wtf

>>11926603
>china is for sure gonna make a copy
Not after getting expelled from Texas, they won't. Their consulate in Houston got shut down and they were burning documents.

>>11926616
Who is he? General Raymond?

>>11926603
Having the 180t booster crash into a village doesn't count.

>>11926618
>Their consulate in Houston got shut down and they were burning documents.
What the fuck? Why do non-Chinese still want to willingly work with the Chinese government when they pull shit like that?

>>11926589
Well it’s an ambitious plan. And Up until recently Starship hasn’t even been able to be pressurized. Also it has yet to actually fly (Starhopper, while great, doesn’t count).

I think after the first Starship flight to cross the Karman line, people will finally take it seriously. But right now even a 150 meter hop is baby shit.

Unironically if I was SpaceX I would outfit SN6 with engines and a nosecone and no flaps and fly it into orbit as an SSTO just to say

>”Well looks like Starship is orbital now haha”

>>11926616
Space Force will be militarized arm of ZOG in space, to make sure every colony is a liberal democracy that fully adheres to globohomo.

>>11926629
>Unironically if I was SpaceX I would outfit SN6 with engines and a nosecone and no flaps and fly it into orbit as an SSTO just to say
It wouldn't work. Terran SSTOs are impossible even with hydrolox.

Someone posted leaks ahead of time of the Space Force reveals. It seems like most of what they said is coming true. The only major thing that they leaked that hasn't been officially announced yet is that Space Force bases will be renamed to "garrison," so Vandenberg AF Base will be renamed to Vandenberg SF Garrison.

>>11926618
eh burning docs is SOP for consulates being kicked out

>>11926635
>Terran SSTOs are impossible even with hydrolox.
[citation needed]

>>11926635
>even with hydrolox
But hydrolox is anemic shit that becomes clunky and big.

>>11926637
I really fucking hope that if Biden wins, he doesn’t shut down Spacw Force

>>11926652
What has Biden said about the USSF?

>>11926635
Falcon 9 can SSTO with no legs and a few kg of payload.

>>11926652
He can't shut it down.
But he can affect funding to both it and NASA.

>>11926629
too bad SN6 is kill

>>11926663
Thank Christ we have private Spaceflight companies. At this point SpaceX is PopSci so cutting it would be a nightmare.

>>11926665
I mean that’s why I think expending it on an “Orbital flight” would be good. At least you get some data on operating Raptors for several minutes straight, and more than anything it’s a PR stunt that says “hey our ship is real get ready”.

Plus she deserves to die doing what she was intended to do. Better to become atomized and crash into the pacific in a blaze of glory than cut apart as scrap like a euthanized pet.

>>11926660
Same things that the rest of the left says - it shouldn't have been formed.
The thing is, there has been talk of splitting off the space segment of the air force for a while. Opinions have been very split.

>>11926682
Why does the left oppose the formation of the Space Force? I thought it was common sense.

>>11926691
Because Trump did it. That’s literally it.

/ULA/ edition, when the only thing going on is Starship SN5 blowing up again.

>>11926691
I think the conversation gets caught up in a greater discussion about the military, funding, and america's foreign wars.

>>11926691
They'd prefer the CCP have space superiority, since that's the kind of country they'd like to live under.

>>11926691
Remember last time Democrats won?
Constellation was cancelled.
And look where we are now.

>>11926697
Yup. I hope all the TDS sufferers kill themselves when he gets reelected.

>>11926711
Man I hope he wins but shit looks bad for him right now. I’m just happy that SpaceX and Starship are doing fine.

>>11926716
just wait for the debates. trump isn't the best debater, but he is literally going up against the easiest possible opponent he could have

So this machining channel on youtube visited the machine shop that produces the rocket nozzle for the RS-25 engine.
From minute 18:00 to minute 20:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykV1SAAMDw4

>>11926718
That’s what I hope will happen. I remember Biden saying that he didn’t want to debate though (lmao).

>>11926716
>Shit looks bad for him now.
Jesus has every single person in this country had 2016 edited completely out of their brain?

>>11926691
The Democrats intrinsically hate anything even remotely related to space because they see it as wasting precious money that could be spent on feeding niggers.

If ULA built a tank with ring stacking like for Starship, would they be called ULA hoops?

>>11926716
>but shit looks bad for him right now
The polls are every bit as fake as they were in 2016. I won't go into the details because this isn't /pol/.

>>11926718
I'm french, and you can't begin to understand how Trump bashing is a tradition in all the medias, and therefore in people around me.
Now, luckily for us, French people don't vote the US president.

>>11926731
>If ULA built a tank with ring stacking like for Starship
There's actually nothing stopping them from doing that, except, maybe the engine technology.

>>11926697
I hope he gets reelected if nothing else but to keep NASA's current plans alive, because you just know that Trump's Democrat replacement will tear up Artemis and try to get in the way of private American spaceflight.

>>11926739
>11926739
because western europe is even more pozzed and globohomo then america, at least politically. america is definitely worse off in terms of demographics. but lets not get too ahead of ourselves, we're on /sci/ not /pol/. I wonder if artemis will get canceled after the first couple landings.

>>11926739
>2019
>Macron meets Trump
>Macron says they wont increase NATO budget to 4% in front of all reporters
>Basile day comes around
>Macron in his speech says they are increasing their defense budget to 4%
You voted for Trump with your wallets.

>>11924969
that's really dumb
ESA had similar plans but even they realized how dumb that is and decided to just copy Elon's homework point for point

>>11926731
>>11926739
I'll be the first to admit all the great shit trump has done, but shit has gotten worse for him as 2020 goes on. Wishing Ghislaine Maxwell well is the most recent example. He's a useful idiot as far as I'm concerned.

>11926761
$0.02 has been deposited in your account.

>>11926756
>that pic
IMO, that probably could easily work. The only real issue with it is that it should've started a decade ago.

>>11926765
Liquid fly back boosters were a good idea back in the 90s.

>>11926755
Well, Makron can go to hell, as far as I'm concerned.
Democracy in France has been choosing between far-right and the other guy for a while, so it might as well not exist.

>>11926777
>far right
lol

>>11926777
None of your options are far right, you fucking Communist shit. Even FN is center right at best.
Kill yourself.

>>11926779
i wish all the people complaining about the far right today were sent 50 years ago for a couple days

>>11926777
6th republic when?

>>11926777
>Makron
>a frenchie misspelling the name
you're a liar

>>11925465
>Giant boat on wheels carrying Starship driving up the road
>Elon on that part on the bow yelling "I'm king of the wooooorld!" then holds up X-AE-AXIII like in the Lion King

>>11926779
Well, I think they'll win, eventually, but they'll never be able to pass any law, because they'd need to win assembly seats. It will be one hell of an empty mandate.
Well, at the very least, they can concentrate on having the law respected.

>>11926794
It's on purpose, and a reference to Quake 2.

>>11926492
aeiou

>>11926522
Yeah, i remember this, was fucked up, the US lost pretty much all their agents in china in a week while chinese spies in the US&the rest of the west got stronger then ever.

I expect China's space program to suddenly stop making progress in about six months.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1285918905412853761

>>11926802
Oh fuck, I haven't played quake in damn near two decades.
I'm gonna download it now, thanks, anon.

>>11926811
I wonder what the Chinese response would be.

>>11926817
So far they've been dropping spaghetti and crying about it. That's all they can do short of a hot war. What are they going to do, cut off exports to the US and force us to immediately re-shore everything? That just helps us.

Imagine if the first Starship to fly to Mars was called Pedo Guy

>>11926824
No, it's going to be named Ares 1 or something.

>>11926811
USA has them too.
Look at the one they made in macedonia.
But its ok when US does it.
https://katehon.com/article/how-biggest-intelligence-center-balkans-looks

>>11926817
There would be a wave of Tankies across the internet rallying out in support. But seriously don’t expect anything to happen on the surface.

Also is China working on a Starship prototype right now? Their “Super heavy launcher” won’t fly until the 2030s or something.

>>11926824
that'd be hilarious but its gonna be called heart of gold (at least the first manned one)

>>11926830
>But its ok when US does it.
Yes.

>>11926829
>I’m back

>>11926837

>>11926837
So, how much did that single launch of a slightly elongated space shuttle booster with an upper stage cost?

>>11926817
Cry more about racism while half the nation is flooding and the other half gets put in a new corona lockdown.
Seriously, paperdragon meme is stronger then ever right now.
>Chinese spies are getting flushed out all over the west
>massive leak that china has faked it golds reserves
>lots of company's leaving china for vietnam
>trump's tradewar made them look weak in the whole rare earth metal deal
>all nations that took part in the belt&road deal like italy for example got fucked hard by corona.
>massive floods hitting china's best farmland and economy making them buy shitloads of food from around the world.
>taiwan&the gang finaly getting support from the US in the south china sea bullshit
etc...

Also corona&the floods are making chinese people remember "the mandate of heaven" china has.

https://www.cnet.com/news/astronomers-capture-first-images-of-multiplanet-system-around-sunlike-star

>>11926812
Good games. Enjoy.

>>11926844
$445 Million. Really. Shit was fucking expensive and half of the Rocket was literally just rings of metal.

>>11926856
So 7 F9 launches with money to spare even when *not* adjusted for inflation...

>>11926845
>taiwan&the gang finaly getting support
they are always getting a support.
I mean "4 asian tigers" its a direct conformation that someone at cia hq knows what they are doing.

>>11926856
>$445M
Where did you get that figure? Because Bolden said that it would've been $1.6B. Whichever the number is, I'm glad that SpaceX came along. Imagine looking at those price tags to send $25t to LEO and think that they're reasonable.

>>11926868
They will just print more money.
Infinite value economy and all that

the future of space flight is a hydrolox first stage, in a fragile orange foam fuel tank, sandwiched between two solid rocket boosters from another contractors ICBM's, 500 million per launch, 10 tons to LEO, not reusable
for launching ocean monitoring earth science satellites only

>>11926846
>first
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomalhaut_b
???

>>11926861
Yes.

The Ares 1-X launch used a regular shuttle 4 segment booster with a dummy 5th segment added. The upper stage was a dummy that had zero plumbing or engines. The avionics were taken from an Atlas V. The “Orion” at the top was just sheet metal and a weight.

AND IT STILL COST HALF A BILLION!

It was the equivalent of Starhopper to Starship. A low-fidelity test of the future vehicle.

>>11926868
>” Ares I-X was the first-stage prototype and design concept demonstrator in the Ares I program, a launch system for human spaceflight developed by the United States space agency, NASA. Ares I-X was successfully launched on October 28, 2009.[1][2] The project cost was $445 million.[3]”

>>11926837
I'm still holding out for NG to stick a cryo 2nd stage on OmegA and use it to launch Orion or Starliner just for shits and giggles because I miss this special skinny boi so fucking much.

>>11926871
That probably would've been the direction spaceflight had went to if it weren't for SpaceX or China.

>>11926877
>The Ares 1-X launch used a regular shuttle 4 segment booster with a dummy 5th segment added. The upper stage was a dummy that had zero plumbing or engines. The avionics were taken from an Atlas V. The “Orion” at the top was just sheet metal and a weight.
>AND IT STILL COST HALF A BILLION!
I call embezzlement.

>>11926881
My bad. I thought you were talking about the Ares I "proper" and not the questionable prototype.

>>11926877
The fuck?
How on earth can one waste so much money and still archive next to nothing?

>>11926888
tax payers money

>>11926888
They figured out it's a shit idea

>>11926888
Cost-plus contracting and monopoly abuse.

>>11926889
That doesn't make it any better.
>>11926893
FIguring that out took half a billion dollars?

>>11926888
Embezzlement. Reminder that members of NASA's and the USAF's contract approval board tend to end up working for the contractors that they gave favor for.

>>11926874
Fomalhaut b is a single planet and its star is A type.

>>11926874
Formalhout A is the star.
Star always gets the A designation. Our system would go:
Sol A:Sun
Sol b:Mercury
etc.

>>11926830
>interfering with other countries with the intention of exporting your authoritarian model of government is worse than interfering with other countries with the intention of exporting your democratic model of government
yes. Whataboutism doesn't erase the CCP's human rights abuses.

>>11926904
>>11926906
okay, now what
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HR_8799

>>11926898
Yes, it took that long for them to figure it out.

They should’ve just man-rated the Delta IV heavy or made a “Atlas V Heavy” to launch Orion instead.

NASA’s ESAS report from 2005, which ultimately made them choose Ares I over EELV’s to launch Orion, was incredibly unfair to the EELV’s and it’s obvious that they already had favoritism towards anything that used Northrop Grumman SRBs.

>They count each shuttle flight as two flights of the Ares I... for some reason... I’m order to prove that it’s safe
>They count ever flight of an Atlas since the 90s to prove that Atlas V, which flew in the 2000s and has a completely different first stage... to prove that it’s unsafe.

It’s a neat report but a total shitshow.

>>11926918
I hope the people who made that report got fired for it.

>>11926566
>The good news is that at this point Starship-class spacecraft are inevitable. By that I mean TSTO fully reusable vehicles.
>TSTO
Call us when they retrieve the 2nd stage of the Falcon. Also problem grow exponentially with size.

>>11926589
The most difficult part is de-orbiting and slowing down with heat shield, we learned that from the space shuttle.
At least this time we will avoid the extra complication of making a plane landing.

I'm what you can call a Musk hater but I do applaud what the actual engineers did. I just wish we didn't handed control of such an important technologies to megalomaniac who will disregard science or common sense anytime it suit them.

>>11926912
i dont get it
but it dont matter

>>11926926
>REEEE HOW DARE ELON IGNORE MY LEFTY POLITICS
Gas.

>>11926933
Elon is a retard, regardless of what side you are.

>>11926918
>man-rated the Delta IV
No, just no.
One does not human rate the rocket that by default hides itself in a fucking fireball at launch.

>>11926926
>I just wish we didn't handed control of such an important technologies to megalomaniac who will disregard science or common sense anytime it suit them.
SpaceX isn't ran by Elon Musk though. He comes up with ideas and directions, but the rest of company works out the finer details and operations.

>>11926926
>I just wish we didn't handed control of such an important technologies to megalomaniac who will disregard science or common sense anytime it suit them
like the oldspace CEOs who have been abusing government R&D contracts for decades? Yeah, me too. If only there was someone out there who wasn't a soulless corporate crony and actually wanted to compete in the market instead of milk the US government for cash.

>>11926917
Also not really sunlike. In the new paper the star has a mass of 1.00±0.02 M sun. HR 8799 is 50% more massive and 5 times more luminous.

>>11926924
Probably not. It gets worse though.

Even though Ares I used a different version of the shuttle booster than the shuttle itself, they still counted it as a proof of concept. However they decided that even partial failures of an Atlas rocket counted as full failures and thus said

>”Hey the Ares I first stage failed 1/270 launches, but we’ve fixed it and made it more reliable so now it’s failure rate is 1/1104.”
>”ATLAS HAS FAILED TWICE OUT OF 100 LAUNCHES AHHHHH! WE CANNOT FLY ASTRONAUTS ON A VEHICLE THAT HAS A 1/50 FAILURE RATE.”

It’s funny though how six years later when Commercial Crew started, they through the report out the window and said

>”Atlas has failed zero times. It is America’s only ride to space.”

While underfunding SpaceX.

>>11926934
>ELON DOESNT WSNT TO STAY INSIDE REEEEEE

>>11926461
Good riddance.

>>11926935
>One does not human rate the rocket that by default hides itself in a fucking fireball at launch.
Add moar hydrologs :DDDDD

>>11926952
Blatant corruption within NASA. Oldspace purge when?

>>11926934
>elon is a retard
Ok, I'd like to see you start the world's most successful private space company. Good luck.

>>11926967
Indroducing:
Delta IV heaby :DDDD

>>11926934

>>11926990
binland d;

>>11925189
Who cares, alcohol kills braincels and harms the liver over time, adults should be able to do whatever the fuck they want to themselves, even get tattoos.

>>11926998
No need to give people another way to incapacitate themselves.

What jobs do yall have? Are you in the industry itself or just passionate about space?

>>11926846
Now we just need to observe it for several billion years to see if life develops there too. If there are terrestrial planets in the habitable zone, of course. Or if they are about to form "soon".

>>11926829
>Ares 1
and maximum seething ensues
I like it
>>11926926
>Call us when they retrieve the 2nd stage of the Falcon.
Why is that important? SpaceX has decided that the proper answer is to simply Deal With It, and deprecate further development of F9 in favor of Starship, which is to F9 what F9 is to oldspace.

>>11927026
I’m going to Uni in August to hopefully enter med school in 2024 and become a physician by 2030.

I’m trying to pay for my ticket to space, man.

>>11927026
dentist

>>11927041
Can dentists be involved in space like doctors? >>11927035

>>11927026
>What jobs do yall have?
None so far. Recent graduate and hampered by lack of experience and corona. Got a phone interview with SpaceX coming up though.

>Are you in the industry itself or just passionate about space?
Initially, a little of both. I became an aerospace engineer because of my interest in spaceflight, but I was anticipating not getting a job in the aerospace sector so I tried to focus on more general and balanced engineering training. That later changed and it's all for the passion now.

>>11927044
I mean probably. Either way you’ll definitely make enough $Cash$ to buy a ticket to Space so you shouldn’t worry.

>>11927044
probably i mean the air force has corps dedicated to it so idk

>>11927026
Studying international relations. Wanna get in the policy part of space.

>>11927026
I do software for aviation products at a defence contractor. I'm hoping that once I get enough experience and my engineering license, the only company that makes space related things in my country will hire me (I tried applying to junior positions and stuff but they don't have that many that frequently)

>>11927026
I'm industry-adjacent. I work for a megacorp that has a space division, although not in said division.

>>11927089
Which country?

>>11927093
Which mega corp? Come on guys, you won't doxx yourselves giving basic info. Fine if you don't but I'd like to hear about it.

>>11927116
Boeing

>>11927116
>Which country?
canuckistan

the company in question is MDA (made canada-arm, worked on curiosity a little). there are a few others that make sats, but I don't wanna work on sats. also they are recently fully canadian owned again, and I'm hoping sign contracts to work on gateway / mars mission and expand their activities

>>11927116
Amazon. AWS developer, specifically.

>>11924988
The maximum width allowed to be transported on the US road network.

>>11926990

>>11927163
Me on the left

>>11927147
space truckin

>>11926938
>He comes up with ideas and directions
This is like saying a ship captain isn't responsible if the ship hit a reef and sunk.

>>11926943
>like the oldspace
I do think Elon is just another flavor of oldspace.
>Yeah, me too. If only there was someone out there who wasn't a soulless corporate crony and actually wanted to compete in the market instead of milk the US government for cash.
Not Elon then. He IS a soulless corporate crony, he just happen to satisfy his ego buying rocket instead of Yacht.
I won't blame him for the lack of market beyond resupplying the ISS but betting solely on tourism is risky and human exploration need to be backed by peoples who can do more than spaceship and aren't driven by their ego. You can bet Elon dream of driving a Tesla car on the moon.

As disappointing as it is NASA would have done more work if each US president hadn't milked the Oldspace Manned Mars bullshit instead of more useful project.
Plus all those R&D contract include the research SpaceX will need to actually do shit in space.

>>11927131
Lol. How is it there, as shit as we meme it to be? Guessing you're in commercial aviation?

>>11927132
How hard is getting US citizenship as a canadian? Good luck anyhow.

>>11927136
Fuck you. Only cause I wish I bought AMZN before it went parabolic. Sabotage it for me please.

11927170
(you)

>>11927168
>A shuttle just drove over my car!

>>11926978
Sure, give me his starting money, the one he got by being essentially lucky as hell.
In case you haven't noticed our economic system don't select for merit, it favor whoever made the right bet and let competent people make money for them.
I'm sure I'd waste less money than him and consolidate full TSTO rocket to drive the price so low it will create a real market. Not saying I wouldn't do large rocket if I could but they would be geared to reduce price and encourage large space project.

>>11927030
>Why is that important?
You need the experience from those technologies to build the BFS.
>SpaceX has decided that the proper answer is to simply Deal With It
More like Elon is a megalomaniac who hope that brute forcing his way will have his engineers find solution for him before he run out of money.

>>11927178
i'm in customer service

>>11926935
>spend 30 billion dollars on a crew capsule for D4Heavy
>can't spend 5 million to develop a system that stops the rocket from lighting itself on fire
That's the most American thing I've ever heard. Someone give this guy a cost-plus contract. RIGHT. NOW.

>>11926811
Their main crewed spacecraft is a Soyuz derivative.
Johnson Space Center wasn't even doing launcher design.

>>11927188
>You need the experience from those technologies to build the BFS.
It's brand new technology, why does it have to be done on F9 first when they don't need it on F9?

>>11927170
I'll admit Musk is more than a bit crazy, rude, eccentric, probably autistic, but that's what you have to be if you want to change the world. Normal people don't sperg out on Twitter and act crazy in work, but normal people also don't start rocket companies.
I can't see inside his head so I don't know how authentic he is. But I think if he just wanted money and power he wouldn't be running an electric car company and a rocket company. Nobody makes money doing that. (At least, nobody did until he did) So even if he is megalomaniacal, the world is better because he's in it, and the future looks brighter. That's a good enough reason as any to like him. What else am I supposed to look forward to?

>>11926938
>SpaceX isn't ran by Elon Musk though
>He comes up with ideas and directions
Running a company coming up with ideas/directions. It doesn't just mean manual labor. The manual labor is for code monkeys/lower level engineer monkeys.

>>11927206
>That's the most American thing I've ever heard. Someone give this guy a cost-plus contract. RIGHT. NOW.
I'm german.

>>11927220
Climate observatories and diversity programs or cost plus hydrolox first stages with ICMB contractor boosters on the side and a few flag and footprint missions. The democrats wants the former and the republicans the latter.

>>11927191
>uh sir, Delta is on the line. Just canceled 30 more orders for 737 MAX.

What customers do you deal with?

>>11927178
>How hard is getting US citizenship as a canadian
I don't think it's so easy. first I need the experience / skills to get a job there at a company that will sponsor me (my current company is US based but ITAR restrictions and the nature of their work means unless I'm irreplaceable, it won't happen). then I need to apply for a green card as a "Third preference worker" and then, assuming I get it, and it doesn't take a long as time to get, 5 years later I can apply to be naturalized. then after however long that takes I can now work at US Space companies

so ya... I think at the pace things are developing my better chance is to hope they lift restrictions for 5 eyes countries so that I don't have to be a citizen to work on the stuff or more canada based companies get more involved

...or I could marry a US girl, but that is even less likely to happen ;_;

>>11927188
>give me his starting money, the one he got by being essentially lucky as hell.
There's a meme floating around that his dad gave him seed money. The only source for this is a single quote from Elon's dad, which is denied by Elon and his brother. In either case, the entire reason Elon left South africa was to escape his abusive father, so it's unlikely that he would have recieved money while fleeing.
Elon also worked menial, physical jobs when he moved to Canada (a farm and a sawmill) which isn't what rich people do. That's what people do when they have no money and they need some quick.

>>11927236
>The democrats wants the former and the republicans the latter.
Real life is more complicated than the black&white dichotomy on 4chan

...

>>11927243
>hello, customer service
MY PLANE IS DOING A NOSE DIVE AND I CAN'T DO ANYTHING
>have you tried turning it off and on again?

>>11927226
you're a true american now, just like him

>>11927268
True, there are some republicans pushing europa missions or something and I'm sure there are some democrats pushing deep space stuff. But nobody other then SpaceX is pushing getting the average person into space/space colonization.

>>11927188
I would like to point out that we three other examples of billionaires starting private space companies (Jeff Bezos & Blue Origin, Charles Branson & Virgin Galactic, the late Paul Allen and Stratolaunch) yet none of them have even managed to put anything to orbit. Of course two of them fell for the aircraft-launched rocket meme, and the other has a tortoise on their logo.

Plus he has managed to get Tesla running nicely; compare that to say Fisker, which was equally well capitalized when it started, and ran by a guy with lots of experience in the auto industry. I would say this proves Ol'Musky is better than most at getting businesses going.

Apparently this is the highest quality surface image of europa ever. 1 pixel is 19 feet or 5.8 meters. Can't wait for Europa Clipper to make flybys at like 15 miles altitude.

>>11927278
Ja natürl, eh I mean Of course.

>>11927252
>I think at the pace things are developing my better chance is to hope they lift restrictions for 5 eyes countries
That will never ever happen. ITAR is what allows the US government to have sole discretion of which of our allies get which pieces of military technology.

>>11927170
In reality you don't just get the best rocket in the world by getting the best engineers together and telling them to build it. People don't organize themselves that way. Smart people don't naturally assemble into novel companies that produce useful goods at a quick and efficient pace. The failure to understand this is the fundamental flaw in the understanding of the world that makes you sound like a teenage communist who has never had a real job.

>>11927252
Man, really puts it in context how easy americans have it. Wish you the best of luck man. i'd try for US citizenship though, really opens the door.

>>11927272
kek

https://twitter.com/NASA_LSP/status/1286037016023638022

Mars Perseverance launch set for 7:50am Eastern on the 30th.

>>11927147
Oh so it's like Proton's size being dictated by Soviet rail loading gauge?

>>11927272
>>have you tried turning it off and on again?
Wasn't doing that to the autopilot the actual fix for the 737 MAX issue?

>>11927300
Wow didn't know it was THAT rough. I wanna go.

>>11927310
that's the thing though, spaceflight tech is moving farther and farther away from military technology. maybe a good comparison would be planes for war vs planes for transportation? they diverged at some point and now you have the regular aerospace industry anyone can work in and the DOD aerospace that is all ITAR

>>11927292
What have you got against aircraft launched space access?

>>11927333
>Mars Perseverance
Not exactly, the issue was the MCAS system wich overwrites pilot inputs even with the autopilot turned off.

>>11927335
Yeah. It has pretty massive canyons on it.

>>11927323
LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>11927341
It's slightly bad.

>>11927341
It's OK for smallsats but for anything bigger you quickly run into the need for implausibly large carrier planes.

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1286038136485818370

>>11927385

>>11927361
For civilian purposes, at least. There's a reason why the USAF (and almost certainly the NRO) ditched SLC-6 for whatever program these renderings and the 2005 AWST "Blackstar" story were related to, and their reasons likely had almost nothing to do with Challenger.

>>11926635
SSTO is possible, but to do it you need to carry zero payload mass and your structural mass can't include any reusability hardware.
The problem of SSTO is just packing 9.5 km/s into a single stage that has a >1.2 thrust to weight ratio sitting on the pad. That's doable.
The problem of a reusable SSTO that delivers payload to orbit is what's basically impossible, and totally impractical.

>>11927376
See: >>11927396

The biggest advantage of air-launching is that you can hit just about any orbital inclination that you desire on extremely short notice and with an almost undetectable infrastructural footprint. That's great for intelligence gathering and other military applications, and next to useless for anything else.

>>11927418
The orbital inclination thing is probably why so many west coast companies fall for it. Fly out west over the Pacific a few hundred miles, turn around to point east, and there's your launchpad.

>>11927323
THANK GOD

>>11927338
The problem is any suborbital rocket (one that can go to at least the karman line but cant stay in orbit) is also an ICBM, so that'll never happen probably

>>11927338
I’m not sure the plane analogy is good since everyone has figured out how to make planes work. So there’s really no problem in domestic air planes. No country bar the US has the same capability when it comes to commercial rocket launch, so the US enjoys a monopoly on this. That monopoly can only be protected by banning foreign workers

>>11927338
Also, some countries like Iran still haven’t truly figured out rocket engineering so you’d want to ban them.

>>11927455
A commercial aircraft could also be a giant cruise missile, yet scores of them are flying constantly through multiple nation's airspaces.

>>11927484
>>11927472
>>11927479

>>11927484
The only reason that resumed after 9/11 is we have rapid-response air force units willing to shoot them down before they crash into things.

>>11926742
Reusable TSTO doesn't rely on ultra high performance engines like Raptor, you know. SpaceX could do super-heavy reusable TSTO using Merlin 1D engines. The issue is that they wouldn't be able to use that same vehicle to go to Mars and the Moon without an additional stage, because those delta V requirements are higher.

>>11927448
All of those West Coast companies fall for it because they all worked with Scaled Composites, and everything I've heard about the **allegedly** "massive, multi-contractor" and deeply classified program from the late 80s and early 90s (that was tied to these renderings from Boeing >>11927341
>>11927396 as well as these patent drawings, pic related) indicates that Scaled almost certainly played a role in the construction of whatever flight hardware came from it, as they were basically THE guys to go to for classified project composite prototyping in the 80s.

With all the prison time they'd face for breaking the NDA's, there's no Rutan and crew ever said outright that they built what they built to Branson and Allen, etc, but I'm sure they heavily implied their past experience with similar platforms when they drew up the plans for SpaceShipOne, SpaceShipTwo, and the Stratolaunch concept.

>>11926768
80's
In the 90's we had the tech for propulsive flyback boosters (Delta Clipper). Of course that program was hung up on the retarded problem of SSTO, but if they simply redesigned the thing to put a Delta Clipper style vehicle with a cargo bay onto the nose of a much larger Delta Clipper with more engines, it'd basically be a less optimal version of Starship Super Heavy and would have got us a vehicle that could do 20 tons to LEO fully reusable with minimal refurb by 1996. Today we'd be flying a fleet of a dozen of those reusable TSTOs and development would have probably begun already on a successor, using bigger and better hardware, but it probably still wouldn't have ended up as ambitious as Starship so in reality we're in the best timeline.

>>11926831
>Also is China working on a Starship prototype right now?
Nope, the closest thing they've done in terms of reusability hardware is that design that keeps the solids attached and uses them as ballast to land later, also they put grid fins on a couple stages in order to steer them to crash in a safe area on top of dissident populations.

>>11927513
Now, of course, the big reason why whatever the USAF and NRO were working on in the late 80s and early 90s actually worked, was because unlike Stratolaunch and Virgin Galactic, the air-launched TSTO they built utilized a carrier aircraft that vaguely resembled an XB-70 because it's launch profile allegedly involved the carrier aircraft releasing the orbiter in the middle of a (possibly rocket-assisted) supersonic zoom climb at >60,000 feet, like that F-15-launched antisatellite missile that the USAF tested in the 1980s. The logic was apparently that since the mass fraction and payload margins for the (essentially) SSTO orbiter were so razor thin, that extra 1500-2000 knots and 60,000+ feet on release could be the difference between the concept actually working or not.

Again, when you're drowning in money like the 1980s era US military, you can justify spending billions on an XB-70 successor to be your carrier aircraft, but even Paul Allen who was richer than Steve Jobs or Elon Musk (at the time, at least) had to slum it with a subsonic mothership, which is why the air-launched concept is utterly idiotic for the civilian world.

>>11927531
Idk if it’s that easy. The Delta Clipper ran on hydromeme fuel and it’s engines, while flight proven (they still fly to this day I mean damn), wasn’t designed from the ground up to be ultra reusable. The DC-X was a cool program but in reality it was just a “let’s throw money at SSTO research! Awwww okay we’ve milked this cow dry and this isn’t going anywhere.”

As a side note I just want to say: a lot of people here praise Elon for having the balls to develop reusable rockets, but I think everyone misses a more subtler detail. He’s moving away from RP-1 and Hydrogen. NASA and other companies wouldn’t have ever DARED to use something like Methane. Hydrolox is a fucking joke, specifically on first stages. It’s the reason why SSTO never got anywhere and why TSTO was never even on the table

>>11927566
And here's the patent for the orbiter release mechanism:

>>11927220
You can find crazy people who would be more competent than Musk. They just don't have the money he had and won't waste a lot of money marketing themselves as Tony Stark. I don't dismiss SpaceX work, I just wish we could develop space technology in more efficient ways.

>Nobody makes money doing that. (At least, nobody did until he did)
Let's not confuse not making money because the market is a niche and the technology is not ready yet. And and not making money because you are incompetent and waste money.
Elon is only making money because of years of subsidies until his engineers managed to reuse the rocket. What THEY did is great, he just happened to be here to hit the jackpot.
For the electric car, this is a bad example, it isn't making money despite having groundbreaking technologies.

>What else am I supposed to look forward to?
A world who recognize who actually do the work instead of the guy claiming the merit.

>>11927253
I give him credit for anything up to Paypal, from there he is mostly surfing a system that reward the rich for making good bet.

>>11927292
All this show is that the other billionaire didn't get lucky. To be clear Blue Origin is another example of billionaire wasting money on ego project. They never aimed higher than suborbital tourism and didn't expect SpaceX to humiliate them and steal their niche market.
Stratolaunch is a technologies that require a lot of R&D, I want someone to develop it just in case it work or help later in the game. Same for SABRE engine and Skylon by the way.
Lastly, TESLA never ran nicely. Given the cards they had it should be much better, right now it's overevaluated because of his social impact. There's a reason he had to step down as the chairman.

>>11927314
As shown, he isn't a good organizer. Smarts peoples are the ones who organize&produce. Elon just provide the money and isn't afraid (or sane) to be (ir)responsible for massive debt.
Others than him failed despite looking ready to win it all.

>>11927595
And finally, here's another 1980s era depiction of a rocket-assisted XB-70-like supersonic mothership releasing a ventrally-slung orbiter, this time, presumably from Rockwell instead of Boeing, as it depicts the rarely-seen planned launch mode for the cancelled Rockwell X-30 National Aero-Spaceplane.

>>11926926
>Also problem grow exponentially with size.
Reverse is true of rocket launch vehicles, actually. The larger the rocket the better the mass fraction and the better the mass fractions, which means a cheaper rocket as long as your producer isn't stealing from you via cost plus nonsense status quo pricing.

>>11926020
Middle phase 2 rocket is basically Vulcan, so this wasn't too inaccurate. Left phase 2 rocket is pretty silly-looking though, and the 8.4m fairing is KSP levels of oversized.

>>11927598
>Elon is only making money because of years of subsidies until his engineers managed to reuse the rocket. What THEY did is great, he just happened to be here to hit the jackpot.
Elon makes actual engineering decisions at SpaceX.

Might as well post some retro spaceplane

>>11927611
>The larger the rocket the better the mass fraction and the better the mass fractions
This post brought to you by the department of redundancy department.

>>11927628
That one's just a hydrolox Starship with wings and a tail instead of rocket fins.

>>11927598
>it isn't making money despite having groundbreaking technologies.
You couldn't have picked a worse day to make such a stupid point, Tesla just posted profit for last quarter despite Fremont being shut down for over a month.

https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/f41f4254-f1cc-4929-a0b6-6623b00475a6

>>11927611
the capacity isn't the "problem". The larger the rocket, the more complex the plumbing, the more stressed the materials, the more unstable the structure, the more structural supports required (introducing more critical points of failure) etc. Those are the problems that scale with size. Nothing to do with what it's capable of.

>>11926926
>The most difficult part is de-orbiting and slowing down with heat shield, we learned that from the space shuttle.
Shuttle had 40,000 unique tiles, Starship just uses the same hexagon shape over and over. Shuttle tiles needed to be glued on with high temperature silicon by hundreds of skilled technicians, Starship tiles get bolted on via three studs by mexican welders. Shuttle tiles were so delicate you could crack them by holding them gently, Starship's tiles get handled by those same mexican welders (who probably aren't treating them with baby gloves) and are fine. Shuttle's tiles were small, Starship's tiles are more than a foot across.

Despite all this, only a SINGLE Shuttle failed to reenter successfully, and that was because of debris striking the leading edge (breaking the carbon-carbon leading edge of the wing, nothing to do with the tiles), debris which came from a foam-covered external tank (Which Starship doesn't even have). Starship will handle reentering just fine. They're going to have done a decent number of shakedown flights on suborbital trajectories before they do an orbital launch anyway, and they'll do multiple orbital flights before they fly payloads, and they'll do dozens if not hundreds of flights before they launch people (will only take a few years at most after the stack maiden launch).

>>11927650
>How about instead of developing an independent human launch capability, we just buy seats from a space agency that hasn't innovated in decades?
Brilliant move, ESA.

>>11926934
A retard became a self made billionaire. Are you a billionaire? If not, why? Even a retard can make themself into a millionaire given a decade or two, apparently.

>>11927598
>all he did was gamble on starting new companies in impossible, established industries and stick with his failing gambits for years while enduring ridicule until they turned around into profitable ventures and that had nothing to do with him, it's all luck
you're just as deluded as the Musk fellatio enthusiasts were back in 2009 before he had actually accomplished anything substantial, but you're just jumping through hoops to prove otherwise at this point

>>11927646
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/01/tesla-becomes-worlds-most-valuable-carmaker-without-making-a-profit
Fuck the other car maker for not investing anything in electric car.

>>11926935
A big centrifugal air mover that sucks the hydrogen down and away from the rocket during the start up sequence, igniting it away from the vehicle and solving the problem completely
>would probably cost less than $500,000 all-in
And they never ever did it, and Delta will be retired in a few years so they never will.

>>11927628
>>11927641
Lmao I mean to be fair, imagine walking into the room and pitching it like
>What if instead of landing like a plane, we take off the wings and land it ass-first on landing legs
They would have called you a retard and told you to get out

>>11927664
They've invested billions and are still losing to Tesla. That article is bullshit, this is the first full year of profitability for Tesla. You can read the report and see for yourself.

>>11927661
Nassim Taleb thinks mostly luck and fate makes billionaires, not talent. I’m happy the lucky person happens to be a genius though

>>11927484
Cruise missiles are not a strategic threat

>>11927681
It's a certain kind of talent but you have to get at least an education, be knowledgeable in finances, entrepreneurship, investments, have a family or an entourage willing to help with money, and of course and most of all working in a cutting edge sector where the market isn't taken. And yeah fate. Russia is basically ruled by retards billionaires who were opportunist assholes in the 90' when the country was basically an enormous market to conquer.

>>11927578
The Methalox thing is important. Until SpaceX no one touched it with a ten foot pole except for studies about “future manned mars missions maybe”. No one wanted to spend the money to develop a Methalox engine. All we were left with were Russian Kerolox engines, expensive as fuck RL10’s, also expensive RS-25’s, and the monstrosity that’s is the RS-68. Literally without SpaceX it’s unlikely that a (NEW) American-made engine would have arisen for a long time thanks to government contracts.

Not saying there wasn’t interest in Methalox because NASA really loved the idea of refitting RL10’s to use methane fuel. Sadly they never used any of their money to even build a test variant.

It’s scary to think about a world without SpaceX.

>Alternate 2020 in which Falcon 1 flight 4 failed, SpaceX lost their COTS contract, and preceded to become bankrupt and defunct by 2010.
>All we have is SLS
>Blue Origin moves at a glacier pace and has yet to fly even New Shepard
>Starliner fails OFT, have to wait until 2021 for Americans to fly to the ISS on American ships.
>NASA plans to send humans to mars “Eventually”
>Colonization of Mars is pushed into imagination.
>Russia and China dominate the commercial launch industry

Scary world

>>11927661
>A retard became a self made billionaire. Are you a billionaire? If not, why? Even a retard can make themself into a millionaire given a decade or two, apparently.
>self made
I have bad news for you about how work our world. Most of the time all that matter is that your name appear on the right paper. If you want true genius, look at the person way down the hierarchy who can name his salary.

>>11927662
The error is that you consider it "his" accomplishment. Even if we judge him as a CEO he not a good one, we wouldn't talk about him if he wasn't constantly claiming merit and boasting about aiming for Mars.

>>11927710
i think "space plane" should be reserved for something that lands like a plane

>>11927717
will skylon be able to take crew into orbit

>>11927628
That almost reminds me of North American's batshit insane concept from 1971 for a hypersonic boost-glide airliner that would have been bigger than an AN-225 and had something like 10 SSME-class engines.

>>11927719
It's just another form of cargo

>>11927710

>>11927719
Does Skylon even exist? Motherfucker’s been in the works for decades and hasn’t even had a single hull piece built yet.

>>11927726
>block your AN-225 path

>>11927720
I like it, where does it come from?

>>11927738
God the original Shuttle concepts were Saturn V-tier pornographic

>>11927741
I wish I knew myself

If you can decipher moonrune
https://lineblog.me/maipapadays/archives/483472.html

>>11927732
They had some breaktrough in the cooling of the engine, but they still have a shitload of other problems to solve too.

>>11927756
ISRO is pretty cool. India memes aside I mean they do a decent amount of cool stuff.

Their rockets are pretty unique looking.

>>11927226
paperclipped.com

>>11927710
>It’s scary to think about a world without SpaceX.
It'll be depressing. It'll be full of the old aerospace mantra of "we can't do that, its too hard" while we lose capabilities that we had even in the 60s. Production would stick to well known and proven designs, but poor knowledge transfer would leave the industry with a receding idea of how such designs work. They merely know what the specs are and how to stay within those.

However, such issues would be completely ignored since there is no other standard to compare it to. Sure, there's the past, but it's becoming more trendy to accept that the great achievements in space flight history were faked. Fan of spaceflight would be desperate for any drive and ambition within the industry, but they have no reference point to filter proposals. All concepts would be given equal merit, and substantially more merit than actual usable hardware as such items would go to be too difficult to make.

Things won't be all gloom. There might be one lass hurrah of spaceflight where coincidence favored the old groups to make something that would be truly noteworthy and capable. Perhaps it would be a recycle of old technologies into a form that could carry even a minor fraction of what the old great rockets could do. It would be heralded as a spectacular achievement and that the new golden age is coming. Yet by that point, industrial rot has set in and the project is undercut by problems that shouldn't be there in the first place.

It might actually work and gain some spectacle, but the pilling issues of project and declining industry would mean that it would be a dead end.

>>11927188
>More like Elon is a megalomaniac who hope that brute forcing his way will have his engineers find solution for him before he run out of money.

Why is brute forcing a bad thing? The entire SpaceX philosophy is to just build the thing, blow it up, see why it blew up and then do it again until it works. It may be ugly but it fucking works.

Also Elon has something like $100 billion in Tesla stock alone and it doesn't show any sign of dropping. If Starship stalls or somehow runs out of funding he can liquidate 1/10 of his assets and personally fund development for another decade.

>>11927327
Pretty much

>>11927341
It gets you about 1/6th of the boost compared to using a reusable booster first stage, and you're going to use a rocket anyway, so you may as well use a rocket for both stages. Also, rockets are actually easier in a lot of ways than airplanes to construct.

>Poor people don't understand the essential value of a venture capitalist

I'm watching the first man right now, the intro sequence with the x15 I guess, is it realistic?
I mean the part where he bounces it and then activates the rcs and it's super violent and chunky and you hear the airframe making sinking ship noises. In KSP bouncing is kind of a good thing unless you're toasting it, but he's high up. Hell even the Space Shuttles use it and they have an ultra fragile heatshield. and there wasn't even plasma indicating drag. It felt more like a submarine crashing scene, the pressure chamber surely was built sturdy enough to withstand the low density, I mean I'm no expert, is it overdramatized? I also disliked the short, hectic cuts from a cinematic standpoint. I think The Right Stuff with the F-104G did a better job, looking forward for the rest of the movie. Hope it's better than Ad Astra, which was pretty miserable.

>>11927786
That’s a great point. Lots of people like to say “WHAT IF STARSHIP FAILS HAHA SPACEX IS OVER” without realizing that they already get fucktons of money from Falcon 9 already.

Also Starship seems pretty cheap to develop. Stainless steel is $3/kg and if Starship weighs 150 tons then material-wise it’s half a million to build. I think SpaceX is willing to pump as much money as possible to get this to work, and even if it took twenty years for Starship to fly, it would still BTFO the competition.

>>11927753
I did a little digging and apparently it's from a dude called Rei Yumeno who happened to work on Royal Space Force and Evangelion, not surprised his drawing is so good. I then found the manga your image is from, it's the 87th page of Psycho Land, but sadly the only copy i could find online is spanish. It's on libgen btw.

>>11927710
Yeah, hydrogen looks fucking good on paper. But in reality it's such a bitch. Its density is so low you need huge ass tanks just to hold the hydrogen, not to mention the fact that its density is SO low that it just leaks out of your solid tank, so you need a bunch of shit just to contain it.
>>11927674
>>11927628
>>11927610
>>11927566
This is a lost art. The attention to detail before CGI is so fucking cool
>>11927795
Unequivocally based