/sci/ - Science & Math

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Just test it its not hard
All lsd is 100% pure becuase its impossible to make it unpure the chemicals dont react like that

>>11900781
HPPD

>>11901879
I've read that it's fairly rare and not very serious in most cases, but maybe my information is wrong

>>11901885
Your information is correct
But now I can't trip anymore or it could potentially get serious..

>>11901899
I'm sorry.

>>11901947
Me too..
Don't mix psychedelics with anything anon, not even shrooms and weed..

>>11901879
>>11901899
>>11901977
Have you tried water fasting for 7-11 days? I heard that helps

>>11901983
That's my only hope
Some ancient reddit legends claim it's actually 16-21 days to do the trick, I only ever did a 5 day one but I'm going to try for like 10 days soon and then try for 20-21 days after that..

There is currently no evidence that suggests LSD creates lasting changes to the physical structure of your brain. Any changes from LSD are psychological. So LSD might not cause brain damage, but it could still cause psychological damage

LSD is a hoax

>>11902369
Elaborate

>>11901870
by nefarious manufacturers he probably means people selling weird RCs and claiming that it's LSD

Enjoy seeing snow for the rest of your life.

>>11902394
>>11901885

Can confirm.
Dropped acid when I was 18.
Now 31 and still have heavy visual snow.

>>11902394
>>11902417
So visual snow is so far the biggest threat. How distracting is it? Easy to live with or no?

>>11902422
It's a non-factor.
I don't particularly notice it unless I intentionally try to. It's quite non-intrusive.
I also have other visual disturbances such as afterimages. None of it really affects my quality of life though.

>>11902431
Thanks

>>11902417
Try the magical water fast dude
The 3 people I saw who did it all said they were cured, I'm gonna try soon and report in the reddit if it worked..
>>11902422
>>11902431
Each case of HPPD is different, for me and for most people it's hardly noticeable, but the biggest problem is you not being able to do any drugs anymore (even weed they say) or in theory it can get worse and worse to the point where you see snow so bright and tinnitus so loud that you can't even sleep anymore, at which point a lot of people just kill themselves..
Probably not that common but still, be very careful..
Also always choose shrooms over acid

>>11902443
Shrooms and acid are totally different. It isn't a one or the other situation.

>>11902451
can you describe how they compare?

>>11902451
Not that totally different.. I'm pretty sure that mescaline, psilocybin and lsd molecules are all basically almost exact copies of a dmt molecule..
>>11902453
From what I felt with mushrooms you just feel it in your body more and with lsd you hallucinate more..

Here's part of pasta I wrote a while ago.

1/2

Caveat: I have no background whatsoever in any medical field nor chemistry, these conclusions come from reading a lot, both at internet communities and actual academic studies and books (thank you, Sci-Hub and Libgen).

Direct physical damage to brain cells notwithstanding, things points towards there being two still badly-resolved ways drugs can cause mental damage. One is not knowing how to handle a bad trip. The drug itself didn't cause any actual harm, but rather the illusions the poor bastard witnessed created something in the same vein as PTSD. I know that likening bad trips to a disorder usually related with war and child abuse seems off, but some drugs can really bring the proverbial darkest parts of your soul to the fore. And the irony here is that this very thing is also responsible for life-changing positive experiences for many. A bad trip, properly handled, is very much a Dark Night of the Soul, the pain that necessarily precedes true catharsis. Improperly handled, it instead simply causes trauma. These would be the cases of people who developed anxiety, depression, PTSD and such. A wide variety of drugs can cause this damage independently of chemistry, because it's the subjective experience that's at fault. Altho the drugs' effects have wildly varying potential to do it. Psychedelics, of course, are much more likely to cause that than, say, sedatives.

The second type of mental drug-induced damage is biochemical in nature. This would be the infamous cases of drugs triggering schizophrenia in people who, it seems, wouldn't have otherwise developed it. The assumption here -- and let me point out it really is an assumption, as there's seemingly no hard data whatsoever on this, only anecdotes and conjecture -- is that this type of damage happens in people with a genetic predisposition towards psychosis-related disorders, of which schizophrenia is by far the most common.

>>11902479

2/2

Thus, common wisdom is that people with a past history, or even family history, of such disorders should abstain from certain drugs -- altho microdosing seems to be universally safe, but then again, this is uncharted territory. Regardless, unlike the fist type of mental damage, this one seems to be remarkably, but not totally, restricted to classical psychedelics. Ye olde LSD, DMT, mescaline and such. The bulk of their action in the brain seems to be on serotonin receptors which happen to also be involved in psychotic disorders, which reinforces the aforementioned assumption regarding people at risk.

This brings up 3 important notes about the 2nd type of damage. One involves non-psychedelic drugs which can cause hallucinations, which, as far as my knowledge goes, all fall within the dissociative class. In the absence of serious research, reports are all we have, and so far, it seems that the classic substances of this class do not cause this biochemical damage. This would be explained by the fact that these classical, "pure" dissociatives don't interact with the seratonin receptors, and the hallucinations they cause are instead an indirect consequence of the dissociative effect, akin to hallucinations experienced with sensory deprivation. Some drugs, however, exhibit a curiously wide array of effects, which would include "impure" dissociatives which might hit the serotonin receptors, which is the second note I wanted to bring up. Some of these "wide-spectrum" drugs then, supposedly, can do biochemical damage to predisposed people. The third note is about weed. It's mostly harmless, yet it occasionally does cause the 2nd type in someone. My educated guess is that this is caused not by cannabinoids but by volatile oils which contribute to their effect. A few of them can have psychedelic effects, but the odds of a predisposed person smoking the rare bud with those oils, well that would explain why it's very unlikely yet keeps happening.

You can't really know whether you're taking LSD or some RC, the cheap test kits can only tell you're not taking meth or shit like that

>>11902504
..oils? no, the theories of biological causation in the cannabis/schizophrenia relationship are more advanced

>I believe the current most popular hypothesis of the mechanism of cannabis abuse induced maldevelopment of adolescent brains is a upregulation of CB1 receptors on PV and SST expressing GABA neurons in the PFC. This would result in an overall decreased inhibitory tone on PFC excitatory cells, particularly layer 5, leading to schizophrenia (associated with deficit in GABA interneurons).

>Your next misunderstanding is pharmacological. "Partial agonist" only indicates a less than maximal response in one assay (usually Gprotein assay so in this case inhibition of adenylyl cyclase). Drugs, or more broadly ligands, can be full agonists in one pathway, partial in another, and inverse agonists in yet another. THC may be an "agonist" in the pathway of CB1 that desensitizes it either through internalization or downregulation. This would provoke a rebuttal by the adolescent brain because it "feels" less cannabinergic tone. Then later in life you have WAY TOO MUCH cannabinergic tone, resulting in lower GABAergic tone. This is particularly bad in the cortex because of dense localization of GABA interneurons that maintain a delicate balance of excitation/inhibition of output neurons (layer 5).

>>11902007
>There is currently no evidence that suggests LSD creates lasting changes to the physical structure of your brain. Any changes from LSD are psychological. So LSD might not cause brain damage, but it could still cause psychological damage

I've used LSD and don't necessarily dissuade people from trying it, but this isn't really true. It hasn't been studied enough to convincingly show whether there may be any permanent neurological changes.

I experienced HPPD the two times I ever took LSD (and it's the only psychedelic I've ever taken). First for a week, and then for a month. Some people get it for the rest of their life.

Although there are surely also psychological factors involved (like anxiety/hypochrondria/etc.), there's likely a major neurological factor to HPPD. And I wouldn't be surprised if HPPD is more general and can lead to other changes in behavior and cognition, too.

Also, all psychology comes down to neurology at the end of the day. Psychology is just a higher level of abstraction of it.

>>11902591
Also, just for added details, both times I only took 100 ug. The second time I stupidly also smoked weed during it, which may have led to the prolonged HPPD, but I still definitely got HPPD for a week the first time, and I didn't take any other substances at that time.

I have no diagnosed mental disorders or anything. The HPPD was tolerable and intermittent both times, but it was still weird to have symptoms last for so long. I've seen some (educated) speculation that it may have to do with certain serotonin receptors not really recovering to their previous state, so HPPD may actually imply that in some parts of the brain, the trip literally never ends.

>>11902579
I didn't say anything about drugs arresting development, I mean adults who actually develop some psychotic disorder.

I reckon I don't know how HPPD fits with this model though, maybe these perceptual changes can be considered very mild psychosis, considering they do affect one's understanding of reality. But then again, we know jack shit about HPPD.

>>11902611
Have you ever met someone who did a ton of acid as a young teenager?

>>11900781
Actually data suggests that if anything LSD promotes growth in neurons. The idea that it rots your brain is just a scare tactic.

>8.51$
OP is a faggot

>>11904293
Oops wrong tab, sorry /sci/

Depends on how you define brain damage. It can, in a small variety of cases, leave persistent hallucinations. By and large, tho, the mechanism of psychedelics are fairly simple, so I think the potential for damage is pretty limited, even if it were able to cause it.
t. study neuropsyche in my spare time

>>11904327
What about a prolonged change in thinking or brain activity?

>>11902591
>It hasn't been studied enough to convincingly show whether there may be any permanent neurological changes.
MRI studies don't show any abnormalities in the brains of heavy LSD users, as opposed to heavy users of others drugs such as cocaine and meth

>Although there are surely also psychological factors involved (like anxiety/hypochrondria/etc.), there's likely a major neurological factor to HPPD.
HPPD could be an exception, but since not everyone gets it, there are probably some genetics involved.

>Also, all psychology comes down to neurology at the end of the day. Psychology is just a higher level of abstraction of it.
Subjective psychological changes aren't the same as your physical brain structure being altered. LSD "changes you" in the same way a dramatic life event would change you.

>>11904575
>HPPD could be an exception, but since not everyone gets it, there are probably some genetics involved.

I think it mostly happens to people who have a massive freakout trip, people who mix up a bunch of drugs and people who take fake acids (RCs)..
Also mdma can cause it

>>11901870
Bullshit, different batches absolutely feel different, if it's not clean you get heavier body load and longer comeup.

>>11902603
>Also, just for added details, both times I only took 100 ug.
Interesting. I wonder if...
>The second time I stupidly also smoked weed during it
Well there you go. Don't smoke weed and trip. This second trip cannot be a data point with that level of fuck up.

You have one data point. That is all.

>>11902417
Never dropped acid and still have visual snow.

So is it possible to induce and keep synesthesia from acid use or what? I want to be able to see sounds so i van become a better musician

>>11904851
Everybody has some visual snow and afterimages, some people just naturally have too much and it's called visual snow disorder, and hppd is almost exactly the same as vss but it just happens from drugs..

>>11904851
You can have it without drug use.

>>11904575
>MRI studies don't show any abnormalities in the brains of heavy LSD users, as opposed to heavy users of others drugs such as cocaine and meth
That doesn't rule out any changes. It just means no permanent large-scale changes in activity were observed. MRIs are very useful, but they're still an extremely blunt instrument when considering the brain as a whole, which is obviously one of the most complex systems we know of.

I'm sure LSD is less overall harmful than heavy cocaine or meth use, but it doesn't mean there still may not be some permanent changes for some people in some cases. Maybe some of such people get net positive changes, and maybe some net negative. And other people probably experience no changes.

The fact that psychedelics like LSD cause conditions like HPPD which sometimes lasts for years, and also that people regularly report various permanent changes in world view etc. (which could be explained solely by memory of the experience and one's state of mind at that time, but brain changes could also be a plausible factor), suggest that long-term or permanent changes are worth further research.

>>11904702
>I think it mostly happens to people who have a massive freakout trip, people who mix up a bunch of drugs and people who take fake acids (RCs)..
>Also mdma can cause it
IMO, these are somewhat myths. I know bad trips seem to increase the risk, but the two times I took LSD, it was pure, I didn't mix drugs (except weed the second time; but I got HPPD the first time), it was only 100 ug, I didn't have a bad trip or negative feelings, but I still experienced HPPD each time.

MDMA can cause it too, but that's because it's also a serotonergic. Serotonergic substances seem to carry this risk. HPPD is a neurological issue induced by serotonergics and may be related to serotonin receptors. It's not just a psychological thing.

>>11904761
>Well there you go. Don't smoke weed and trip. This second trip cannot be a data point with that level of fuck up.
Agreed, I shouldn't have. It was dumb. But I still got HPPD for a week my first trip, and I really wasn't anticipating that. I wouldn't have included the second trip in my anecdote if not for that first experience.

>You have one data point. That is all.
I've read /r/HPPD and other research on HPPD. I have probably a few dozen anecdotes I've seen, plus studies and speculation/observations from researchers. Obviously anecdotes are just anecdotes, but in aggregate you can still learn some things. And from research, it still seems to be a complete mystery, but researchers all agree there's a neurological mechanism at play. (I mean, how could there not be? It's not like some mass hysteria thing. It's real perceptual changes.)

Also, just in a kind of common sense view, the idea that any drug can cause symptoms of the original experience for months or years afterwards is... weird and unexpected, no? It suggests there's at least some potential for long-term changes.

I'm not suggesting people stay away from LSD or anything. I actually enjoyed both of my trips, and I'd try it again if I weren't concerned about the HPPD risk. And after the HPPD was gone, I never experienced it again, and didn't notice any other lasting effects.

It's just something people should be aware of: both that HPPD is a possible risk, and also that there *could* be a chance of some long-term brain changes even if they don't experience HPPD. They may very well not have any long-term changes at all, but people should prepare for the possibility that they could experience them.

>>11901870
I'm a chemlet. What do you mean that it's impossible to make unpure?

>>11905067
LSD is a really fragile molecule and is easily destroyed so it isn't susceptible to being "cut" with other substances the way other popular drugs can be.
Also LSD is active in the microgram range, it takes an extremely small amount of LSD to trip

>>11905123
Oh, I thought you meant the synthesis always had 100% yield

>>11905125
Lower-quality LSD can have some precursor chemicals still on the tab and have been described as providing more body load (jaw grinding, sweating) than pure LSD. Some people on the internet insist it's all pure LSD and any negative 'purity' discussion is just based on experiences from bad mental load during a trip.

>>11902000

Godspeed anon, heal the damage and keep the lessons learned

>>11900781
bump

>>11904327
>the mechanism of psychedelics are fairly simple
are you sure about that? we still don't have a clear understanding of how LSD causes all of the effects it has..

t. actual neuroscientist

>>11902000
buzzword alert; ketosis will make your body eat its dead cells

starving yourself will achieve this goal but there are factually more pleasant ways out there for you