/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11897129
earthing the thread!
Ok it's safe now.

Uuuuh, this is Marscom, I need everybody to check in.
State Callsign and airframe classification,
(shoutout to your mum is optional but highly appreciated).

I skipped /sfg/ for two months, did i miss anything at all?
Are they still blowing up tanks?

Hit them up if you're interested in NTP

Meeting today:
https://www.nationalacademies.org/event/07-13-2020/space-nuclear-propulsion-technologies-committee-meeting-7-industry-perspectives-on-nep-ntp

>>11897159
Nothing at all missed

>>11897129
SN5 Static fire cancelled for today/tomorrow.

>>11897159
>Chinese rocket fails after being delayed for years
>Hop soon
>Perseverance delayed
>Boing BTFO'd again
>Reminder that the Shuttles were a disaster
>KSP posting

>>11897162
They really need to restart that shit. We need proper upper stages and not that anemic pure chemical shit.

Musk needs to take a trip up to the iss. I want to see the first twitter shit post from space.

>>11897184
Have a superior variant. Transparent too.

>>11897185
>implying that none of the other astronauts on the ISS haven't shitposted before

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1281724440636612608?s=20

>>11897188
Thanks. Have this.

>>11897172
Can't say I wasn't expecting that.

>>11897199
Pretty impressive that the boosters and the separation methods were designed at a time when rockets were highly experimental and without the aid of computer modeling.

How much longer is the station gonna hang around for /sfg/?

>>11897159
Rocket Lab had its first launch failure a couple of days ago. Upper stage engine went out approaching the time when they would‘ve ditched a battery.

Reposting

>Israel launches rockets retrograde to avoid overflying arabs
Huh, the more you know.

>>11897185
He already shitposted through starlink for what it‘s worth.

>>11897175
I actually got a tourist in KSP called "Chadly Kerman" yesterday

>>11897264
2030 at least. It's been used as a way for NASA to farm grant money for so long that it'll be up there until a new grant farm is set up.

>>11897278
Fly them over arabs and they would A) be shot down and B) retaliatory strikes would be on the way.
They have not been good neighbors, so they have to deal with the shit.

>>11897299
what altitude / speed would a rocket need to reach before anything trying to shoot it down can't catch up? I'd imagine within like a minute of flight it's unstoppable

>>11897309
That depends entirely how anemic the first stage is and how big the payload is.
Because a rocket purely for shooting down shit goes whoosh. It doesn't carry a big ass payload after all and is lean as fuck by nature.

>>11897285
You have to be a chad to look at this and honestly say "I want to buy a ticket to ride that!".

>>11897324
Needs more kerbal glue, son.

>>11897314
true, but a rocket for shooting down shit is designed to shoot down stuff coming towards it, or flying away on a horizontal plane. when shooting down a rocket, you are fighting way more gravity than usual, entering thinner atmosphere than expected, and chasing a target that is moving at the worst intercept angle, exactly away from you

>>11897339
Rockets don't go straight up and I'm not going to do a hypothetical calculation on airspeed/intercept speed/reaction speed/time traveled.
Either way, they'd still have to deal with retaliatory strikes because their neighbors would see it as a violation of their airspace and an act of war.

>>11897324
Drooping like my cock after pegging

>tfw used to continously frequent /n/ until I discovered the /sfg/ threads
>tfw now I pretty much only come here

My dream her based space glider with a fully functioning launch pad with working crew acsess tower

>"The Committee encourages NASA to study the procedures required to designate an integrator for private sector customers who wish to acquire an SLS vehicle."
https://appropriations.house.gov/sites/democrats.appropriations.house.gov/files/July%209th%20report%20for%20circulation_0.pdf

>>11897398
lol
I think most sane private customers will go to anyone else and buy a heavy lift rocket. That document sounds a bit like fire sales to me.

How are rockets connected to the launch pad?

>>11897424
kapton tape

>>11897424
Lots of steel

>>11897424
Autostrut

>>11897424
Love!

>45th Space Wing hazard area confirms there won't be a SpaceX / Anasis launch from CCAFS tomorrow. New date TBD.

>>11897469
was it because of weather again?

lol

>>11897309
Israel is less than 50km wide east to west. Retrograde puts them over the Med.

>>11897472
hardware issue with the second stage apparently

>>11897129

>>11897488
nice angles

Imagine how much gold you could haul out of Venus after cracking the world

Nice table from the zoom

> At 3 minutes 31 seconds into the ascent, one of the center engine's two high-pressure fuel turbopump turbine discharge temperature sensors failed. 2 minutes and 12 seconds later, the second sensor failed, causing the shutdown of the center engine. This was the only in-flight main-engine failure of the Space Shuttle program. Approximately 8 minutes into the flight, one of the same temperature sensors in the right engine failed, and the remaining right-engine temperature sensor displayed readings near the redline for engine shutdown. Booster Systems Engineer Jenny M. Howard acted quickly to command the crew to inhibit any further automatic RS-25 shutdowns based on readings from the remaining sensors, preventing the potential shutdown of a second engine and a possible abort mode that may have resulted in the loss of the vehicle and crew.[6]

>>11897188
>>11897185
>>11897184
Space is hard. This was maybe my answer to Elon, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. NASA had a very MIC philosophy: that if the no-bid contract winner was a paid, the elevation of human knowledge would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Elon can say that SpaceX sends men and materiel to space for a fraction of the cost and figured out a way to reuse rocket boosters, and was humanity's best hope at conquering Mars. But Elon doesn’t ask the question: Will NASA continue to pay if he runs grossly over-schedule? Doesn't the contract money run out if he accomplishes the task? And what about those rocket boosters? By the end of development, the Falcon Heavy was able to recover its boosters on barges in the sea with apparent ease – they’re then reused. Did Elon even think that he could be paid more money to continually manufacture new ones? Even those little Starlink satellites, have a few drop out of their little orbits so he can get money to build more.

>>11897555
I know this is a meme, but Elon has to fucking stop with these "orbit is hard" tweets to other space companies. I think he really thinks they're sincere and sympathetic, but he just comes off as an asshole.

>>11897555
Why do people hate on SpaceX?

>>11897562
nah he's shifting to 'getting to space is easy' but 'having a manufacturing line for hundreds of rockets is hard'

Funding issues aside, did it have a chance to be the reusable Pepsi to SpaceX's reusable Coke?

>>11897278
no wonder they can't into space

>>11897562
Yeah lol. Orbit is so hard we've got enough margins to bring shit back and land it on a X

>>11897566
I mean shit like this:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1279597691182313472
he said something similar when Virgin Galactic's rocket broke up

>>11897565
Contrarians.
Always gotta be different.

>>11897584
Sperg talking to another sperg. They realize he doesn't mean harm, it may look mean to a non-sperg, but they don't matter in that equation.

>>11897565
>Association with Elon's antics
>Anti-corporate sentiments in general
>Threatening government capabilities
>Disbelief of their capabilities
>Contrarianism
Some legitimate grievances, most just disliking something to have a target for dislike.

>>11897606
not to mention "colonization" is a dirty word these days

>>11897584
nothing wrong with this. it's cringy when random people say it but other than that who cares

>>11897607
That's only for a very vocal internet minority. I doubt most people would care about space colonization beyond "that's neat" or "aren't there better things to spend that money on?".

>>11897607
Seething leftists can’t handle the natural human desire to conquer.

>>11897620
>Waste money on lazy apes

Is it possible to not go broke on your first day in DSaF3?

>>11897620
Vocal internet minority are now the mainstream liberal discourse.

>>11897565
Mainly hating on Elon through SpaceX, there's also the goverment bootlickers and private-bad people in the mix

>>11897576
No. It used Russian engines and only put like four or five tons into LEO even while fully reusable. It’s recovery method was also retarded because the shock of landing with airbags likely would damage the tanks too.

It was a good design though and in another world it would’ve been great. But SpaceX would BTFO it out.

Is there a point to traveling faster than is absolutely necessary for a transit orbit?

I fantasize about using Nuclear Pulse Propulsion or something silly like that to shorten travel times to Mars to a month, but it seems like such a massive waste of Delta V that even with novel technologies it just wouldn't be worth it.

>>11897142
>Atlas V
>zero launch failures
There's a healthy amount of luck maintaining that record. One of their recent missions had the first stage shut down something like a full minute early, meaning they had to use almost all of the maneuvering capability margin of the centaur upper stage to compensate and nearly lost that mission. As far as I know they never released the reason why that early shutdown occurred.

>everything postponed
what the fuck is going on with spacex?

>>11897159
>did i miss anything at all?
we had a really cosy chat about the columbia disaster yesterday. best martian habitat and proonting still rages. jeff is still 0 tonnes to leo.

>>11897809
In case you haven't noticed, the weather this summer has been fucking weird. I assume Florida is not exactly cooperating either.

>>11897809
hurricane season is starting

>>11897809
Ran out of froyo.

>>11897309
iirc their rocket is essentially an icbm with a satellite instead of a nuke. they probably don't want the first stage falling into places it could be recovered and reverse engineered.

>>11897398
>private sector customers who wish to acquire an SLS vehicle

what haplogroup is this phenotype

>>11897830
>"By Allah (pbuh)! It's a rocket powered by shekels!"

>>11897830
oh ya, I get that. my question was more about the theoretical

>>11897842
anglo

>>11897842
mines bigger than yours ;)

>>11897309
>>11897314
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXtgTVMcuA
laddest of rockets

>>11897817
but the last 2 ones had hardware issues

>>11897861
>painted on grid fins
bruh

>>11897865
Rocket gremlins. They migrate to America during summer.

>>11897845
sorry i was meant to reply to the person you were replying to. at a guess i'd imagine you'd need to launch and hit a rocket at or before it reached maxq, which doesn't leave a lot of time. after that it's fucked right off.

>>11897865
ULA EMP

>>11897424
Explosive bolts are common. SpaceX doesn't use them, though. I don't know the exact mechanism but it's not something that destroys itself in use, meaning they can test the things over and over to verify their function.

>>11897227
boosters ?

>>11897565
Reminder that there were people who were ass-blasted when the audience chanted "USA USA USA" during a SpaceX launch.

>>11897871
hey bub

>>11897880
>"Dr. Zubrin, I'm NASA."

>>11897622
It's a very small, loud minority, not just "leftists" in general.

>>11897806
Less time in space means less time for failures to happen, and less radiation recieved by the crew Also need to bring less food and don't need as much space inside the ship.

>>11897861
>those crazy eyes
She'd probably secretly start spacing people in their sleep about two months into the trip.

>>11897889
>Needs Shotwell and Insprucker in the background.

>>11897891
>Less time in space means less time for failures to happen, and less radiation recieved by the crew Also need to bring less food and don't need as much space inside the ship.
Also better response times with cargo. There's a reason why shipping with planes became commonplace, people want their stuff ASAP and are willing to pay a premium for it.

>>11897842
Man taking picture:
>Standing still with a blank expression, rocket is clearly the focus

Woman taking picture
>Fake shit-eating grin, the focus is on her, rocket is blurred like it just happened to be there

>>11897842

>>11897901
Man taking portrait
Woman taking selfie

>>11897806
>Is there a point to traveling faster than is absolutely necessary for a transit orbit?

Getting there faster.

topic: the worst space vehicle ever flown
gogogo

>>11897919
free return is 6 months to mars compared to 8 months which would be the normal hohmann transfer

>>11897928
boing shitliner

>>11897928
Shuttle. It represented NASA's failings and it trapped them into staying in LEO achieving little compared to what it could have done even with the limited post-Apollo budget.

>>11897530
imagine thinking that you can crack a planet as if it isn't one giant ball of hydro-statically supported rock
imagine thinking that gold would be of any significant value to the type of civilization that could access the cores of planets by any means
imagine focusing on muh yellow metal when there's PHOSPHOROUS to be had

>>11897553
Christ, what a shitshow of a vehicle. You know it's bad when you need to fly sensor blind in order to avoid certain death.

>>11897555
Could this post be a little less incoherent maybe?

>>11897576
No, their design would need to converge on what the Falcon 9 evolved into anyway, however because of choices they made such as buying engines from a foreign supplier instead of manufacturing in-house, they would have been doomed to be too inflexible and slow.

>>11897945

>>11897951
>not recognizing a choice twist on the classic GRRM-Tolkien copypasta in Space Year 2020
NGMI

>>11897806
Depends on how much faster you're going. Any trip of two or three months can be toughed out, no reason to go any faster unless you're some kind of crazy military speedracer ship. Now, depending on the destination you may be just a bit over the minimum speed to get there in 1/4 of a year or you may be moving at very high speeds, say if you were trying to get to Saturn.
The point is that any argument about more faster equals better for reliability reasons breaks down for any trip that short. So do the arguments about human psychology and radiation dose etc. The only exception which would allow for full retard transfers using tens of thousands of km/s of delta V just to go to Mars from Earth or whatever would be the invention of a torch drive that was practical and used cheap, highly available fuel, and that seems unlikely.

>>11897584
For an autist he restrains himself quite admirably imo. If I was hella loaded and ran SpaceX I would have interns draw me up an army of smug SpaceX pepes shitting on the face of other space company wojacks to post on my twitter when one of their rockets failed.

>>11898019
If I was hella loaded and ran SpaceX I would do things with my interns that would lead to my dismissal and eventual arrest.

>>11898019
So, you would be Jeff Who, buy the Washington Post news company, and try to smear upcoming space companies?
Already been done, be more original

>>11897398
>private sector
>buying a billion dollar one-shot rocket for 80 tons or whatever
>when SpaceX flies for much less
>and probably with much easier timelines
Is this a joke? I mean, I know these Senators have all been bribed to hell. But seriously now, they have to see that this seems utterly retarded. There is NO market. And NO capacity. Unless the state literally subsidizes 95% of the launch costs again like they originally did with Shuttle and even then they can‘t even produce enough to meet Nasas (mandated) demand. There is no way trying to find commercial customers would be anything but wasted effort.
I‘m really quite amazed by how detached from reality this request is.

>>11897424
I think Shuttle was literally bolted down.

>>11897553
I wonder what the timescale was there between the pilot disconnecting the auto shutdown and it actually triggering(or if it did at all)
That sounds way too close for comfort. Then again, this was 8 minutes into ascent. How long did Shuttle burn its hydromeme engines again? I know they burned a long time, but 8 minutes sounds pretty far down the line.

>>11897928
Literally shuttle
>was a shitty design-by-committee mess
>development was far more expensive and took far longer than anticipated
>hydrolox meme
>solids on manned vehicle
>failed every performance metric it was designed to achieve
>killed more astronauts than any other vehicle, plus a civilian
>giant black zones during launch which meant the crew WOULD die even if something innocuous like 2/3 SSMEs shutting down occurred
>single handedly RUINED the vision of reusable launch vehicles in the mind of the common engineer, leading to cope such as the 'space is hard' mantra
>could not go beyond LEO, ate to much budget to coexist with a second domestic manned vehicle, locking american manned spaceflight into LEO for decades
>made building the space station far more expensive than it needed to be, and risked human life during every launch for no reason
>soviets built a far better shuttle-style launch vehicle, demonstrated it, then cancelled it (rip energia) because even their vastly improved version was not worth the cost and effort.

FUCK SHITTLE

>>11897162
fug I missed it. What happened? Also NASA's NTR program is a dead man walking. It's getting a lot of support because NTR requires an expensive new test stand in a respectable southern Senator's district. But here's the thing, NTR engines should really be tested in the middle of fucking nowhere like nevada. But that's not in a respectable southern Senator's district. I bet they will build the test stand then never actually test a rocket. I hope to be proven wrong. I love NTRs. Also does anyone have any NTR pictures? I am running on nuclear thermal rockets.
>>11898070
>>11897424
with big nuts

>>11897928
I would say SLS, but it has never flown.

>>11898086
They burned from a few seconds before launch all the way to 99% of orbital velocity, and without the boosters the vehicle had a pretty low thrust to weight ratio, meaning it burned for a looong time.

>>11898099
The funniest thing is the Russians barely believed in the shuttle ever being a smart move, yet they made a superior version

>>11897928
I nominate Spaceship for having a lever that was essentially a self-destruct when pulled too early, but was entirely mission critical to be pulled a few moments later. Maybe this would‘ve been fine if the craft wasn‘t literally 0% automated.

Otherwise early Russian capsules were kind of death traps that broke in all kinds of ways and left people to fight for their survival in Russian nowhere more than once.
Or maybe, I could mention Gemini that had ejection seats that would instantly kill you when activated.

>>11898102
>nuts torn apart
Yeowch

>>11898111
They totally didn't buy the actual reasons for Shuttle existing, they thought that the US was simply lying when they said it existed to be reusable and cheap. That's why Buran didn't have the stack's engines; the engineers knew it would be pointless. Instead, they built a neato super heavy lift rocket that they could strap an orbiter to the side of, so that they could have super heavy lift capability while also being able to do whatever spy shit Shuttle could supposedly do if they ever needed that capability.

It kinda sucks that the Soviet Union collapsed when it did, we could have seen a Moon mission happen in the 90's.
Just think of it; Energia launches twice and assembles two ~100 ton modules in low Earth orbit, then a slightly modified Soyuz with two crew members launches to rendezvous with the Lunar spacecraft and boards, then the entire thing boosts off and into Lunar orbit. The two men climb into the lander module, go to the surface, do their thing, America shits a brick at the sight, then they go back to Lunar orbit, and from there back to Earth. Imagine the absolute shitstorm occurring at Nasa during this sequence of events.

>>11898121
Spaceship doesn't count, it doesn't even really get into space, let alone orbit.
>>11898131
They didn't have the heart to say the nuts were busted explosively

>>11898121
The Gemini one is funny. I mean it’s not tragic cause no one died but it’s hilarious to think that the abort is just a suicide button that melts the astronaut.

SpaceShipTwo is retarded because without the “Feathering” maneuver you’ll die on re-entry, but if you accidentally turn it on on the ride up, you’ll also die.

SpaceShipOne almost an-heroes in flight, too. As it ascended it started spinning out of control.

VIDEO: https://youtu.be/LXNkUNP75-Q

Skip to 1:00 to see the spinning. It’s kinda funny/scary when mission control even says “uh oh”.

Fellas... Could it work?

>>11898160
No, unless you've got a large tank of dense propellants where the cargo bay should be.

>>11898160
Anon, Buran had no engines. And Shuttle had no fuel on board.

>>11898165
You can just throw the payload out the back as propellant.

>>11898153
>uh oh
>UH OH

>>11898121
>>11898153
Was there any time in the mission where the ejection seats would have been useful? Like maybe right before liftoff or T+10 seconds before the rocket went supersonic hahah. Oh and that reminds me, Shuttle actually had ejection seats but it blew off a hatch in the roof that could barely fit one person. I’m pretty sure you could die just because your seat wouldn’t even clear the hatch. All the early shuttle astronauts just had them take it out

>We’re being extra paranoid. Maximizing probability of successful launch is paramount.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1282800078000803840

why is spacex scared?

>>11898153
Ejection seats would actually be pretty nice to have in the event of a parachute failure on landing.

>>11898243
Boing snipers and ULA weather machines

>>11898243
Just a hypothesis on my end, but Elon is probably very paranoid about the current 100% success rate of both successful launches and landings. He’s getting ready to try and sell Starship as a game changer, and any problems with falcon will make people skeptical. I know he wants quick turnaround times for those reusable boosters but I’m just guessing that he’s more paranoid with the success rate. If even a few sensors or off or the weather looks bad it’s better to just keep it flying when it’s ready to go

>>11898253
Does ULA have their own weather machines or do they buy HAARP time from the government?

>>11898259
No they buy Russian weather machines

>>11898261
ah I see

>>11898146
What could've been. A shame indeed.

>>11898243
The payload might be diplomatically important, and >>11898257

improved version

>>11897806
Faster travel is worth it if its safer/cheaper.

>>11898299
Buran won't have enough fuel payload to make orbit even if you filled up the entire payload bay with fuel.

>>11897806
the cheapest transfer is traveling along the gravity freeway but that takes decades to reach your target if your target is behind you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INXekWvnnkI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBvkyN9lcwI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv9n9Casp1o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW-s5SFjZ60

>Breaking news; A group of men have launched themselves in a homemade rocket after being confronted by authorities
>The FBI has traced the sale of industrial amounts of nitrous oxide laughing gas and 98% industrial alcohol
>The craft seen here was seen flying through the stratosphere into space after the group of incels were confronted by the FBI and is now flying towards mars
>Clearly this is Drumph’s fault; Be angry now

>>11898153
That's looks like all my spaceplane attempts in ksp.

I'm incredibly hyped for the Mars 2020 Perseverance Rover, especially the drone.

>>11898327
I should get back to designing that backyard ethanol nos rocket.

>>11898234
For Gemini the cabin itself used pure Oxygen so firing the ejection seats would melt the astronauts anyways, no matter where you were in the flight.

>>11898202
Make sure you're throwing it out at at least ~3 km/s or your payload ejector's Isp will be too low to let your thing get to orbit

>>11898340
Alternate kickstage: rear-mounted black powder cannon

>>11898327
It runs on Nitrous Oxide and The Macallen 12 scotch. Get in fuckers, we’re going to space
Bottom Text

>>11898343
Excellent we can attack and retreat at the same time!

>>11898343

>>11898337
Gemini used pure O2? Did no one think of the fact that it could combust?

>>11898349
I wanna go space-rafting with my bro.

>>11898365
If you're careful about your material selection and stray sparks, then it can work. It comes with the benefit of simpler life support and lower cabin pressure.

>>11898365
Mercury and apollo were pure oxygen too. It's why the apollo 1 fire was so bad.
And why they needed an airlock between apollo and soyuz for astp, russians just use air.

>>11898320
That's really not how that works at all, dude

>>11898415
yeah I actually checked and both my timeframe and understanding of it was way off.

>>11898146
yeah but as another anon pointed out we might not get actual mars colonization until 2100 or later in such a timeline, only scientific outposts. in this one we might get actual fucking mars colonization as early as 2030

>>11898327
>>11898347
Imagine /sfg/ building a couple ramshackle starship “clones” with Nos/booze fuel and soon after an entire spacehulk shows up and would pass by LEO soon
>/pol/acks cry it’s HAPPENING and that Kek wills them to use it to destroy the normalfags
>/sci/ wants to get their hands on all the delicious tech and lebensraum inside
>/k/ believes the Murder/k/ube spat it out here to build an interstellar empire
>some claim that it’ll take them to equestria while others say it’ll isekai them to anime universe to be with their waifu
>Normals are all panicking and ready to use the nukes on it to destroy it
>Anons flock to the rockets to get on board the derelict behemoth, ready to build the vessel into a battle planet to sail the galaxy in

>>11897929
>free return
>to mars
But wew lad if you have to use the free return, because it's what, 18 months back to Earth if you don't land?

>>11898434
Just sent some uber-introverted neets up there with 20 terabytes of porn. They'll be fine

These threads have very little actual spaceflight discussion and a lot of circle jerking over colonization fantasies.

>>11898473
No, these threads have too many people like you bitching about the content. Literally read THIS thread, half of it it’s pure spaceflight talk about palpable rockets and programs

>>11898452
This, not having to go outside or speak to others in person would be a blessing. Plus cool flyby too I guess.

>>11898473
Posts like these have very little actual value and a lot of pointless faggotry that makes people wish you would kill yourself.

>>11898473
I just made some solid propellant, but watching propellant dry is pretty boring.

>>11898514
Can you use a dessicator

>>11898528
I don't have one, but I'll look into getting one.

>>11898535
Dessicators are useful for drying relatively large amounts of material for chemistry applications

How is /sfg/ preparing for its anal annihilation when the SLS blows every other meme shitrocket out of the water?

>>11898315
At that point, you have Starship.

>>11898541
SLS memes aside. I'll be fairly excited to see the orange rocket fly.

>>11898243
ULA precision EMP guns

>>11898541
ok shelby

>>11898243
probably reading the emails about "minor issues" in sfg last night

Wait woah woah guys... I saw what Eric said but I think I’m just now processing it... Are China and Russia teaming up to do a SEPARATE Moon landing program?? As in possibly competing with the US?

>>11898605
The world is falling back into an East-West divide.

>>11898541
mfw on first flight it RUD's on launchpad

>>11898605
Are you fucking kidding me.
Fuck you putin, what the fuck are you gonna do.

>>11898620
>says the MemeX fanboy

>>11898615
Okay well I’m going to start calling their faction CHIROCOM, and the US & allies should also have a nickname (I can’t think of anything rn so I’ll just call it Artemis)
I think Artemis will have a huge advantage. We’ve landed on the Moon in the past and we are using that technology but scaled up to modern day. And the introduction of Starship will allow so much mass to be delivered. Chirocom only has shitty Soyuz and Villager Pillager hypergolic rockets; but we all know they are eventually going to make a copycat Starship. To add on to that, I don’t think Elon will want to make a ton of Starships for NASA’s use for the Moon. Does Chirocom have the capability to catch up and overtake Artemis one day?

FACT: The Space Shuttle was a MASSIVE success and anyone who disagrees is a brainlet subhuman who needs to be killed. Name a SINGLE thing wrong with it. Pro tip: You can't.

>>11898541
don't worry it'll always be launching two years from now.

>>11898628
sorry can't hear you over the sound of actually putting people into orbit

>>11898641
>implying Musk won't be in prison once Ghislaine Maxwell exposes every billionaire as a pedophile subhuman

>>11898641
>Doug we need to close the browser now, it's almost liftoff time
>"I'm gonna post the frog again"

>>11898635
>Name a SINGLE thing wrong with it
launched black astronauts

>>11898641
How does it feel to know that rickety Soviet-era memerockets stitched together with scrap metal from melted down farm tools have been putting people into orbit more consistently and reliable than any of your epic reddit meme man ever could?

>>11898646

She photobombed him

>>11898660
The cope. Alright Ivan, tell me how well those farm tools held up on them N1 engines

>>11898660
The success rates of the Falcon 9 and Soyuz are comparable.

>>11898629
Chang'e is the name of the Chinese Lunar program

>>11898641
The frog in question.

>No Mars colony yet

The colonization of the Americas brought global domination to the West, why are we so pathetic when it comes to space?

>>11898675
Space flight has effectively been in stasis since Apollo.

>>11898680

And that is what I can't understand.

If I was the leader of a nation that colonized Mars and the Solar System, I would be the most powerful person to ever exist, yet politicians and world leaders don't care about that?

>>11898663
Cope harder Pedlon

>>11898684

>Musk is somehow responsible for his brother's actions

What the fuck

>>11898665
>he thinks the N1 was real
>being this brain cucked by western media
oh no no no no

>>11898675
Because other empires were competing for expansion and raw materials for dominance at the time. As it is right now, there aren’t really empires trying to claim land in space and compete to get there first (yet)

>>11898688
>Epstein and his entourage were granted a private tour of Elon Musk's SpaceX facility in Hawthorne, California, in 2012.

>>11898694
Right, what we need is a dozen or so empires competing to colonize the new worlds.

>>11898683
Space flight BEO has only been for displays of power, not actual power. Once the USA landed on the moon and the USSR gave up on it, there was no point in going further. Spy satellites, actual space power, don't need to go to the moon and beyond so space flight post Apollo catered to that. Going to Mars effectively gave nothing to a nation in terms of dominance beyond showing off (before you bring up space resources, remember that getting such resources for Earth is incredibly expensive compared to their Terran equivalents).

There was also the fear that space colonization would be the spark to turn the Cold War into a hot one.

>>11898699
>how many kids do you think somebody could fit in that Dragon trunk thing?

>>11898699
Epstein was a huge financier, of course a company would let him visit their sites in the hope that he would fund them.

>>11898683
They don’t care because it costs way too much fucking money to do it without it being a national effort. And yes I know people like Elon Musk can do it “on his own dime,” but American politicians (from both sides) would be like “oh but he used his American money to make the colony so we see it as an American territory” and they would expect him to plant a US flag. Same with anyone else. Jack Ma does it? China takes responsibility. Some Russian oligarch does it? Russian Federation territory. The threat comes when someone like Musk makes a wildly successful colony, then declares it independent of any other country. Politicians would go wild and demand military action if someone with that much land and resources (and the capability to generate their own sustained economy) suddenly went rogue

>>11898694

So basically our politicians are too pathetic to claim the Moon or Mars? Got it.

>SpaceX was funded by child prostitution
oh no no no

>>11898701
How the fuck would you enforce colonial borders when you can only send maybe ~5 people every few years?

>>11898709
>SpaceX was funded by child prostitution
Prove it.

>>11898707
>implying the CIA wouldn't just make something up to arrest Musk for

>>11898713

Send several rockets, with more people.

>B-but we are not capable!!

Humans have proved throughout the years that if we want something, we will have it.
There is no such thing as being uncapable.

>>11898716

Why would they?

>>11898701
I apologize if your comment didn’t have rude intentions, but assuming you’re being a sarcastic asshole I will tell you that I’m not “wishing” for that to be the case. I’m saying as soon as someone like the US sets up their own economic powerhouse on Mars or something and starts generating money by mining and exporting and stuff, other countries like Russia and China will try to “imperialize” and play catch up. I’m just drawing a similarity to history. Countries like Spain, Portugal, England, etc. felt at risk when other countries expanded and starting carving out territories that could make their empires stronger.

Is it possible to reach orbit using r-candy motors?

>>11898714
>caping this hard for pedo billionaires
You don't get to be an elite without being a sex pest of some sort.

>>11898707
I think people would care a lot less than you'd think about the semantics.

Either way, Elon can't launch shit to Mars without America's permission, and America can't do shit without Elon (good luck using the SLS instead lol)

What'd probably happen is SpaceX colonies are under US sovereignty but private property, like US flagged ships on the open ocean. From there the US Space Force would set up their own little military base on the moon and buy rides on SpaceX rockets.

>>11898716
>>11898729
You aren't woke, you just sounds like a middle schooler trying and failing to impress his friends.

>>11898694
>countries across the world start going for land grabs in space
>the country with the first self sustaining colony detonates a kessler bomb around Earth to stop other countries

>>11898708
Too pathetic and not willing to spend the money... unless other countries start doing it and they feel threatened. Also see my response >>11898725
There’s no real benefit to going out and colonizing just cause you can, unless someone else has started and is taking a huge lead. We’re just in a weird point in history where no one has started “imperializing” space yet... but as soon as we start there will be competition

>>11898605
is this bad?

>>11897202
it is sad that I can't even tell if this is fake or not.

>>11898737
BASED. Mars Musk becomes self-sufficient and all his starlinks self-detonate to create a cascade of space junk so everyone is stuck on Earth for the next few hundred years

>>11898657
OTOH, Columbia valiantly sacrificed herself to kill the first Israeli astronaut, so can we call it a wash??

>>11898744
I doubt he'll call someone a motherfucker on twitter.

>>11898699
what proof do they have this actually happened though?

>>11898730
>Either way, Elon can't launch shit to Mars without America's permission
he can if he goes into international waters, which he plans to do.

wghat do u guys think of my plan. i solved 2 probelms with 1 solutoin

>>11898765
He still needs a place to build shit, a place to actually run the company from, and so on.

Not that anybody would realistically stop him from trying to do that because America likes money.

>>11898734
seethe harder pedolover

>>11898665
The n1s engines are the same ones in the atlas V...

>>11898777
NVM their Energia engines

>>11898713
Shoot the other dudes

>>11898635
It was an objective failure. It was desihned to be the cheaoest and safest way to get into orbit and it was the most expensive and dangerous spacecraft ever made.
Of the 19 people who have died in space, 14 of them were in the space shuttle.
It cost the same as a Saturn V to launch and it had 1/3 of the payload capacity.

>>11898729
>You don't get to be an elite without being a sex pest of some sort.

Can you please provide peer-reviewed studies to support your claim?

>>11898789
>muh cheapness
who cares, money is fake. just change hte numbers in the federal reserve computer
>dangerous
it only exploded twice
>Of the 19 people who have died in space, 14 of them were in the space shuttle.
actually none of them were in space when they died. wrong again
>It cost the same as a Saturn V to launch and it had 1/3 of the payload capacity.
who cares, it looked cool. who else thought to launch a big ass plane into space.

SpaceX needs to be broken up by the government and split between ULA and Boeing, and the starship project scrapped due to punish Elon for being a disgusting bigot

>>11898720
>2040
>Musk has monopoly over Mars ships and his own independant nation
>US gov't scraps SLS (which still hasn't flown) and makes their ovn version of Starship to transport troops to Mars
>Troops defect and join Mars colony
>Now two seperate entities are bulding ships and there's competion to incentivise both to improve
Musk is playing 4-D chess.

>>11898795
>none of them were in the space shuttle when they died
lel

@11898795
you don't deserve a (you)

>>11898795
I know you're trollong but this is fun to talk about
>money is fake.
The work done by engineers is not.
>actually none of them were in space when they died.
You know what I mean.
>it only exploded twice
in 135 missions. Would you enter a vehicle that had a 1.5% chance of killing you? vs Soyuz which also had 2 failures but in almost 2,000 launches.
>it looked cool
Fair enough, it looked badass. Like a proper sci-fi spaceship.

>>11898771
damn what a genius

>>11898795
????????????????????????????????

>>11898771
>Interplanetary brapposting

>>11898674

>>11898796
Get this anon a cost-plus

>>11898771
>sun wearing sunglasses
Based

After Starship and a self-sustaining Mars colony, what's next for SpaceX?

>>11898855
asteroid mining, then orbital rotating habitats (by dismantling mercury)

It is worse for shuttle, two died looking for Colombia parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UVMy9PlhQk

>>11898855
Ceres, then warp ships to Andromeda

>>11898855
Dropping RKVs on urf

>>11898855
AI Neurolink gfs for Starship passengers

>>11898855
Catgirl waifus

>>11898855
Europa, Ceres, and the rest of the really dank looking moons.

Also, platinum group asteroids.

>>11898855
Ceres outpost, then colonizing ganymede, callisto, and titan.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1170983609492103168?lang=en

>>11898926
Holy shit awesome

Soon(TM)

>>11898926
Why does Elon hate the Moon?

>the NASA main office has been renamed the Mary W. Jackson building
>the street it's on has been renamed Hidden Figures Way

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-names-headquarters-after-hidden-figure-mary-w-jackson

>>11898941
Probably not as inspiring. "been there, done that" kinda thing.

>>11898941
"moon is gay"
-elom musk

>>11898938
So hype, can't wait to gas my shitfaggot kike ISP monopoly.

>live on Jupiter/Saturn colony
>whip out telescope
>check out colonies on nearby moons
sounds cool

>>11898956
That wouldn't work.

>>11898956
You can't live on a gas giant silly

>>11898938
Its going to be great having my monthly Internet payment going directly towards funding Mars instead of funding corrupt telco execs hooker, blow and yacht funds.

>>11898962
Why not?

>>11898975
They're too far away from each other. Even when lined up they're hundreds of thousands of km away from each other

>>11898962
>>11898964
i meant living on one of the moons

>>11897584
Why did Beck say hes working with the FAA to solve the issue if they launched from NZ? Why the FAA?

>>11898926
Is this just him giving a sci-fi spin on Starship or could he realistically do this? Imho it will take all of his effort just to get a basic Mars colony and it will probably struggle for 100 years or more. Colonizing anything past an initial Mars colony (or maybe a Moon colony also) won’t come for a while I feel like

>>11898993
rocketlab is an American company

>>11898996
no, he could realistically do this. he's gonna be making a shit ton of revenue from not just starlink at that point but from the fact he owns one of the largest space transport systems in the solar system

>>11898996
Mars is easy. Build mecha suit habitats for 38% gravity work.

>>11898996
$2m cost per vehicle, near infinite funding, two year downtime between Mars missions. Why not?

>>11899026
2 million cost per launch to LEO, not per vehicle

Remember this?

>>11899039
Mir was such a beautiful shit show

>be space shuttle
>have two SRB's
>put a fragile tank coated in foam that literally disintegrates from vibration between two SRB's
>have reentry vehicle
>glue super fragile carbon tiles to it's fiberglass and aluminum frame
>be shocked when fragment of the disintegrating tank punch holes in the craft and cause it to suicide on reentry
>be shocked when the SRB's explode and detonate the hydrolox tanks
>cost 1 billion per launch
>only able to put small to medium payloads in LEO and nothing else
NASA is a meme organization

How easy would it be for a common machine shop to manufacture an engine like this in the size of a Rutherford engine? Or is this question more appropriate for /diy/?

>>11899067
>only able to put small to medium payloads in LEO and nothing else
And return them if needed. It also helped with things like repairing the hubble, and pic related.

>>11899075
Absolutely doable, especially with they have a multi axis cnc machine.

>>11899039
Did Spektr have any manoeuvring capability after the collision? Would it been possible to replace it with Zarya or the Polyus FGB based module?

>>11899085
Nice. Beats trying to make a small biprop engine that is entirely film-cooled.

My heart aches for the possible encountering of a noble, brave, warrior species of aliens

Without the presence of plate tectonics on Mars, how much more boring is its structural geology? Is Earth truly a standout planet compared to other planets like Venus or Mars? What are some crazy geological features on Mars?
Sorry, I know nothing about geology but I’ve recently become super fascinated by it. Just wondering if any geologyanons have anything to share

>>11897928
Shuttle
>biggest overall dumpster fire with highest body count
SLS
>biggest behind schedule money pit
Starliner
>most disappointing fuckup
N-1
>most spectacular fuckup

>>11899127
>most spectacular fuckup

The Russian one that did a 180 just after launch and yeeted itself into the ground was pretty rad.

>>11899127
Starliner
>most spectacularly disappointing fuckup
N1
>most disappointingly spectacular fuckup
>>11899121
Earth is definitely the wildest of any terrestrial planet (at least when considering the sheer amount of structural geologic processes that happen on Earth that don’t really happen elsewhere. Lots of times due to water and/or oxygen processes)
I know a fair deal of structural geology but I don’t know enough about Mars to make a comparison. I can run the question by one of my professors soon

>>11899039
ISS collision when?

>>11899153
Boe-OFT 2

Why have we still not gone to Minmus?

>>11899075
Yes, and at some point supersonic metal deposition machines will be able to shit out complex machinery like this at extremely quick rates.

>>11899075
could do that on a cnc lathe no problem.

>>11898964
Why not

>>11899121
Mars has no plate techtonics.
Mars has no active volcanos.
Mars has isolated pockets of magnetic fields.
The most interesting geological feature imo is Valles Marineris. I think if you wanted to look for water on Mars, it would be at its lowest point in some sort of crevasse or cave, protected from solar radiation.

>>11897928
N1.

>>11898855
Interstellar ship.

>>11898365
No. Both America and the Soviet Union each had to burn people to a crisp before realizing that you needed to be careful with a pure O2 atmosphere. At least the soviets only lost one guy. But still.

>>11898683
WE ONLY HAVE THIS ONE PLANET! INFINITE GROWTH IS IMPOSSIBLE! EARTH IS LIMITED! STOP PROGRESSING! FOCUS ON THE PEOPLE! YOU CAN‘T JUST COLONIZE THE SOLAR SYSTEM! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

>>11898683
We can't go to mars/the mood/mine asteroids
We need to spends hundreds of trillions of dollars on war, and an equally large amount on welfare, and feeding people in foreign countries

We can't go to the solar system, and become post scarcity, then come back and end starvation, because we need to solve starvation first!!! I'd rather let humanity go extinct in 100 years to save a single life in africa now

>>11898742
I'd say it's good. We got us a space race again. Maybe now we can get some serious fucking funding again too.
If Russia wants to get fucked by China, let them.

>>11898771
Dumb. Just teleport the atmosphere from Earth to Mars.

>>11898941
Moon is always there, so its not really a challenge.

*is still biding his time*

>>11898789
>died in space
This is the dumbest shit. Just like Astronauts killed. Either count everyone who died in an accident involved with the system/program or get the fuck out.

>>11898799
This as well. The crew compartment kept them all alive until impact making this metric double, tripple arbitrary if you seriously used it like this.

>>11898815
>Would you enter a vehicle that had a 1.5% chance of killing you?
Cars have a higher chance of getting in an accident than that. Not a lethal one, mind you, that‘s much lower. But still. 1.5% is a risk is something humans will take all the time.

>>11898819
You really couldn‘t fit "it looked cool" in there?

>>11899369
I absolutely do not fucking have a 1.5% chance of fiery immolation every time I drive my car, get the fuck out of here.

>>11898996
Once you can make propellant or even rockets on a body that isn‘t such a deep fucking gravity anus, the whole solar system opens up. And I feel like rocket factories are probably not that far down the line on the list of priorities of a space colony. Probably the first thing industry should focus on, once basic essentials become available. Especially since you can get to orbit without all the big dick first stage boosters.

>>11899334
>If Russia wants to get fucked by China, let them.
Normally, I'd assumed this is how such an arrangement would go, but Russia and China complement each other's weaknesses in spaceflight (budget and expertise, respectively).

>>11899400
China will say "thanks for all tech, suckers" and go about their own business, leaving Russia all by their lonesome.

>>11899121
Well there‘s the single volcano the size of a small continent that is 20km high or something.

>>11897278
Israel doesn't want to give rocket technology to arabs by dropping first stages in arab countries

>>11898777
no, the NKwhatevers were used on a failed smallsat launch vehicle
minotuar maybe? antares?

>>11899132
Proton

>>11898201
>Buran had no engines
???

>>11899505
Those are radiators

>>11899526
thanks for clarifying

>>11899526
Lies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-58

>>11899546
Imagine making a BETTER Shuttle combined with a powerful launch vehicle and its never fucking used

>>11899526

>>11899162
did boing already do an in-flight abort?

>>11899554
;-;

>>11899554
>never used
It was left to rot in a building that eventually collapsed, destroying one of the vehicles lmao

>>11899505
buran had normal jet engines from what i remember

because it actually did a second reapproach after the first one didn't meet its parameters when landing

so they'll put heating tiles on starship and it wont look all shiny? lame

>>11899567
You confuse it with test article which is in Germany.

>>11899587
Oh. But buran had powered flight nonetheless since it was made so that it can redo it's approach and not rely on gliding alone unlike space shuttle

>>11899582
Most likely only half of it will be tiled. The rest of it will be purple-green colored from the heating

>>11899597
thanks doc

BENIS DDDDD

it looks crumpled

does elon snort steel

what the fuck is this gonna be used for

>>11898765
But can he get his rockets into international waters without America's permission? I imagine even if he does, the moment he tries to pull something they don't like he'll get the whole alphabet and more on his ass with enough bullshit to stall him for a good decade or two

>>11899617
New corset bands being delivered to your mom.

>>11899645
true

>>11899617
My guess is either ground support equipment, or low fidelity internal reinforcement rings for the first Superheavy prototype.

>>11898815
>>11899369
We have a coof with a lower chance of killing you if you get it, and people are fucking killing the economy over it.

The UAE Hope mission was delayed until the 17th, but the bad weather in Tanegashima will last until the 19th, so the mission might not launch for awhile.

>>11898771
A planet's trash is another's treasure

>>11898855
Themed space cruises and tax free space station

>>11899079
>And return them if needed
Literally a bullshit capability
> It also helped with things like repairing the hubble, and pic related
Both of those things could have been done more easily and more cheaply using regular old expendable manned capsules

>>11900052
>Both of those things could have been done more easily and more cheaply using regular old expendable manned capsule
Not really. The satellite repair relied on the stabilizer arm. You can't do delicate repair work on a free floating sat.

>>11899592
No

>>11900052
>Literally a bullshit capability
In what way?

>>11900192
Did we ever recover a satellite back to earth in the shuttle? I thought they just burned them up once they died.

>>11900199
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-51-A

>>11900199
Yeah shuttle recovered satellites, notably ones that were in wrong orbits or that needed to be returned to Earth. And that was one of the capabilities the Soviets feared. On paper, the shuttle could not only deliver nukes but also fly up and grab soviet spy satellites and bring them back to the US to be taken apart and analyzed.

>>11898996

Isn't the area around Jupiter, including the moons, bathed in the radiation it gives off?

>>11900221
Many of them are, Io at least isn’t
So your mining/iothermal energy station would be fine

>>11900221
Callisto is okay
http://beyondearthlyskies.blogspot.com/2015/05/concept-for-human-mission-to-callisto.html

>>11899597
>green and purple
So it's doctor Piccolo who's the anime anthropomorphism of Starship, not Meta Cooler.

It's happening...

starlink.com

>>11898996
An 18m Starship refueled and ready to leave from Mars orbit, absolutely. At that stage, the only real difference for getting to most of these destinations is transit time. Titan will be the easiest to land on thanks to the thicc atmosphere

>>11899597
Isn’t reentry heating like 3000°? I would expect that those “low” heat colors of purple & gold wouldn’t show up at these high reentry heats. It’ll probably look like shiny blue silver, not LSU purple and gold. I could be wrong though

>>11899346
If he went any slower he'd be going backwards, hurry up and do something REEE

>>11898625
>>11898605
ESA and CSA/ASC wouldn't have a problem cooperating with china, but the US declined any cooperation with them in the ISS program. (Which is why china has it's own space station)
If the US doesn't want full international cooperation, it obviously "moves away from the principles of cooperation"

god I wish that were me

>>11900288
You're right. The US should work with China.
Certainly no reason to think why we shouldn't...

>>11900291
La goblina gorda....

>>11900293
They steal everything. China hacked into US computers and stole the details to the F-35, now they have a copy. They would do the same thing with rockets to increase their ICBM network

>>11900297
No shit, anon. I was being sarcastic.
I was shitting on the other guy.
America is wise to not involve themselves with the Chinese. As would be the Euros. But they can't resist. Europe is a continent of pussies.

>>11900300
we banned huawei's 5G network though, I hope we ban other shit

>Congress angry that NASA is using it's money for the Moon and commercialization of space
>cuts funding for those to boost climate change research instead
https://spacenews.com/house-bill-restores-funding-for-five-nasa-science-missions/

I notice that they are refusing to touch SLS, only new space is being targeted. Boeing at it again?

>>11900293
>>11900297
And?
They already have nukes and ICBM's? A war with them is out of question anyways.
You really think some 5 or 10% performance increase technology is worth protecting over getting humanity faster into space.
As long as we don't have any "new physics" they don't have it doesn't really matter what they copy from us. Also if they have to copy our shit instead of inventing their own, their stuff is probably still going to be inferior.

>>11900313
>That bill
SLS isn't even flight tested and they want to sell it to recoup losses. That scream fire sales to me, man. Artemis is hanging by a thin thread.

>>11900316
>You really think some 5 or 10% performance increase technology is worth protecting over getting humanity faster into space
You're implying that somehow working with China advances humanity despite the Chinese government acting even more selfishly than the American government.

>>11900313
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Besides they want to cut space to fund social programs.
>>11900312
Who's we in this context?
Much of Europe hasn't banned Huawei at all. Not even Canada, with all the shit going on with Meng, has.
>>11900316
I think it's wrong to empower the Chinese.
I think there is nothing to gain from doing it and much to lose.

I think we need to let NASA get assisted funding for itself like a foundation.

>>11900316
Literally what is this logical hoolahoop you just jumped through. If they reverse engineer an F-35 they get a leg up and can compete with US planes for air superiority. Same thing with rocket tech. If they copy our rockets that means they can have better-built rockets that won’t explode, more efficient engines, better software to guide a missile or rocket, etc. Having great American technology that much more accessible to them means they get access to more a rocket and more of our hardware and software to copy that would lead to more Chicom hardware in LEO, more deliveries to the Moon and Mars, an increased likelihood of our spy satellite tech being breached, etc.

>>11900210
Are astronauts still this based?

>>11900327
>who's we?

>>11900333
Based banning of viral Chinese 5G, although y’all support oneweb like idiots

>>11900324
It will because current advances in space flight are mostly cockblocked by lack of funding and manpower, not by some missing brilliant new technologies we have yet to discover.
Any dollar that goes into the space industry gets us one step further to being a multiplanetary species.

>>11900333
Not europe, you're an american overseas territory buddy.

>>11900337
I think they're just keeping the options open since we are abandoning the Galileo network. Idk how they'd convert oneweb into GPS sats, but they must have some ideas
mfw I just read we're planning to ban chinks from our nuclear reactor programs too (was stupid to let them invest anyway)

>>11900339
>one step further to being a multiplanetary species.
Of course. Real life isn’t Star Trek. Cooperation with Chinese is not beneficial. There’s a reason it’s illegal to bring a Chinese national into a NASA facility. They are equivalent to romulans

>>11900344
Hopefully this is just the PG Tips of the iceberg and the UK will continue to ban chang from destroying western civilization.

>>11900327
>Much of Europe hasn't banned Huawei at all
Almost all but Sweden has or will ban Huawei and other Chink telecoms.
The only reason Sweden hasn't banned them is because they're not members of NATO.

>>11900339
The thing is we would rather have space not be controlled by a dystopian nightmare. I think deconfliction should happen, but it's gonna be dominated by tensions back home. It's gonna be an exciting century though.

>>11900316
>just give away your technological superiority to an entity that despises you, wants to surpass you and holds extremely different and even mutually exclusive values bro
yeah great idea. you are a quite obviously a 300IQ individual

>>11900316
Get a load of this retard.

>>11900353
I don't believe any earth based power will be able to exert a dominating influence even just to the outer solar system once some colonies become self sufficient. The distances are just to big to allow serious military intervention. I don't fear the Chinese, even if they make it to the solar system conquest era, they will be just one of many entities wielding power in their respective lokal sphere of influence.

>>11900369
>once some colonies become self sufficient.
that is still decades away you idiot, no matter how fast spaceX moves. and thats IF the current pace is maintained. adding more global instability by propping up a retarded dystopian government that has absolutely no regard for human rights will only impede that timeline. just because you are wholly uneducated about the chinese government doesnt mean that's how things really are. fuck off

>>11900376
>adding more global instability by propping up a retarded dystopian government that has absolutely no regard for human rights will only impede that timeline.
How will an attempt for increased cooperation bring more global instability than starting a new cold war with china that could potentially go hot?
The only thing that could realistically impede human conquest of the solar system would be an all-out nuklear war within the next few decades.

>>11900376
Yeah to add on to this, places like the Moon and Mars have valuable areas to colonize. Early colonizers will be expanding to areas with the most resources that are easily accessible. China getting there with better technology means there will be increased competition for American and private colonies.
It’s easy to think of Earth in sections because so much of it is divided by water. Some land (such as China) has access to rare earth metals for example, whereas north america doesn’t have this. It’s the same on other planetary bodies, there just isn’t water separating obvious land areas. Some places are better to colonize than others because of its local geology... and you can bet your ass China wants all of it once they get the capability to send people there

>>11900369
The moon is probably the biggest threat for conflict. Limited amounts of water ice, and plenty close for power projection. Also earth based powers have ample motive to try to control martian and orbital colonies. You wouldn't want terrorists to get control of an orbital workshop or starship. Independence is a very complex notion. You'd need a massive industrial base. I don't see that happening. Likely colonies will be autonomous but under nominal control of an Earth power that gives complex goods in exchange for exclusive launch services, with a contingent of the power's military acting as a police force, like a national guard. Under control of local officials unless activated by the Earth power.

>>11900387
You’re retarded, see >>11900389 for why this is a bad idea beyond your “hoomans should cooperate and hold hands because every country becomes friendly once they cross the karman line” way of thinking

>>11900393
“hoomans should cooperate and hold hands because every country becomes friendly once they cross the karman line”
>>11900376
>dystopian government that has absolutely no regard for human rights

You really think there are gonna be Human rights in space?
Come on, Cults like scientology will probably build their own independent rotating habitats inside a large asteroid at some point.
Given the vastness of space there is no way to prevent the existence of some monarchies or slave empires even within our solar system.
Vid somewhat related: "we don't judge here in space"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYw_So8D_A8

>>11900387
>if we all hold hands and work together, everyone will have the best intentions
youre either 16 or a european, you are the exact kind of useful idiot they love to exploit in western culture. fuck you

>>11900407
>You really think there are gonna be Human rights in space?
Not if China gets there first :^)

>>11900407
That’s like 100-200 years away at LEAST though. Giving China any advantage (which they will most likely steal) means a much more likely chance of them competing with us TODAY

>>11900407
Slave empires and monarchies in space are gonna be hard to defend against railguns. The only other body in the system that has any chance of self sufficiency in the next 150 years is Mars. Any independence is gonna be met with embargos.

The issue boils down to this. The first mover in space colonization is gonna have an immense head start. And that head start is gonna snowball. No other nation has even mastered booster reuse. Starship is such a radical advancement if it works that the US is gonna have the choice of who goes into orbit, populates Mars and who owns the lunar south. If the US can hold onto NATO and keep our east asian friends, Earth and space could be secure(american).

>>11900410
Eurofags will NOT be allowed to bring their stupid politics into space. The new frontier of colonizing will be rough, and it isn’t going to be a hand-holding experience once aggressive countries start expanding for resources
>>11900421
Yeah embargos and boycotts can quite literally cut off a colony and starve them in the early years. I hope the US uses this early period to set up ground rules. The first colony that even thinks about independence with hostile intentions better be ready to fend for themselves

>>11900421
>Any independence is gonna be met with embargos.
Juche it is then.

>>11900421
>Slave empires and monarchies in space are gonna be hard to defend against railguns
That's implying they don't have their own.

>>11900437
>space NK
I can dig that

>>11900435
Fuck NATO. assuming Starship is all it’s cracked up to be, the US needs to set up Space Force bases in the next 50 years. They should be mostly science oriented, with the main intention of keeping American values in space and fostering independent colonies under their protection. The American empire could really take a foothold here, although that being said, all it takes is one bad president to defund human spaceflight and other countries will have the ability to catch up and overtake us

>>11900437
>Juche it is then.
But there's no Space Soviet Union or Space China to leech off to support Juche.

use more Hydrologs :DDD

>>11900437
Can't juche it up when your life support is Made on Earth(tm)

>>11900445
NATO is an insurance policy. It's kept the west at peace (at home lol) for 70 years. Trying to set up an empire is a great way to get everyone to hate you. Integrated space operation, under US oversight, is the future.

>>11900445
Okay serious question. Even with the advent of Starship (and assuming 18m starship eventually becomes a thing and such) Are these Mars colonies in the next 100 years going to be all that political? I feel like it won’t be. I feel like Musk will make his little colony and other countries like China and Russia will too, but it will mostly just be scientists crunching geochemical data into spreadsheets and eating freeze dried food. I just don’t see it becoming politicized to the point of empires trying to expand, but everyone on /sfg/ loves to fantasize about countries going to war over little plots of land when they have an entire planet to share