/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11885199
Commander reporting in

>>11885199
>we got our IQ thread
Just because others post pseudoscience doesn't mean it's OK to do the same.

>>11885240
If you think MBTI is as pseudoscientific as astrology, you're the idiot, here. MBTI obviously isn't rigorous at all but still has plenty of legitimate value.

It's like saying "pfffff, you think there's a dichotomy
between 'introverts' and 'extroverts'? Do you think your astrological sign determines your personality?" Just because something is a simplistic or reductive view doesn't necessarily mean it's completely pseudoscientific or wrong.

>>11886286
dont bother, hes a trump supporter

>>11885199
Bump. Not because it's true or accurate, but because it's interesting.

>>11885240
The Zodiac is unironically more accurate.

t. Cancer with Taurus ascendant

>>11887654
100% haha you nutter how did you get that

>>11886286
please shut the fuck up

>>11887729
Gigachad energy

>>11885199
These tests don't work most of the time because people choose the answers that they want to describe them.

>>11887674
This. Imagine thinking that the most widely studied field of science turned into a framework/system that seeks to explain the esoteric intricacies of mankind and God consciousnesses is "pseudoscientific".

R u a grill? Let's get married.

t. Capricorn sun, Sagittarius moon I/ENTJ

>>11885199
INFJ here.
Not because I'm a feelsy dude but because I care about morality and that instantly makes me Feels > Thinking.
Nah but for real, Feeling v.s Thinking is a false dichotomy.
>>11886579
Based because fuck miga tards.

>>11885240
Centuries' old system based on studying the cosmos over millenia or some hack job system created by a bored Mother-daughter duo who wanted to create the ultimate shit test for the men in their lives? Hmmmm...

>>11887625
At the very least you're an assertive type. I pity INTPs, I really do.

>>11887829
>>>/b/
Religion and delusions of god belong far away from here

>>11887861
>GOD?!?!?! DID YOU JUST SAY GOD?!?! OH MY FUCKING GOD I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU JUST SAID GOD!!!!!!!!!

Quit being an edgy teen. Hermetics explain everything in the realm of science. You'll come to realize this one day like I did after years of fruitless toiling to earn Physics and Chemistry degrees.

>>11887861
>HAHAHA FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER SKYDADDY LMAO
grow up

>>11885199
i got J.P morgan personality, im gonna rule the world aspies

>>11885199
I always used to be an INTJ but lately I've been scoring INTP with like 52-48 in favor of P, even when taking the test multiple times. I found it interesting that the test results were that consistent.
Still consider myself an INTJ.

There's no such thing as introverts/extroverts.
People who identify as "extroverts" have not undergone serious development or introspection, being around themselves is a painful experience because their true self (which they can hide from others to enable socializing) cannot be hidden from themselves. If they were more matured, they would be able to enjoy being by themselves just as much as being around others.
People who identify as "introverts" are social failures that try to justify it retroactively.

>>11887945
Are you retarded or is this bait? You're really trying to argue that some people can't find it more pleasurable in general to be alone than hang out with friends?

>>11887917
i took this test like last year and thot i score a intj-p..
wonder if thats possible but nonetheless, yesterday the maybe 3rd time total i git intp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've done this test about once a year, usually cause of threads like these, and always get the same result.
Seems pretty accurate to me.

>>11887945
>>11887953
I think there's some truth somewhere in the middle here. Well developed individuals should be able to socialize and be "normies" but also be able to find pleasure in solitude. Issues begin to emerge when you have neurotic "extrovert" freaks feeling like they're drowning when it's been 5 minutes since their last hit of dopamine via outside validation on one end and autistic "introverts" who suffer internally as a result of not being able to speak up and voice something important to them in an scenario like a work place meeting.

Non-INTP fags swerve.

>>11887888
Unworthy trips. Many worlds theory and simulation hypothesis don't affect anyone's lifestyle, it's just an interesting thing to think about.

>>11885199
Odd, I used to be an Architect. I was always walking the line between turbulence and assertiveness.

>>11888004
>INTP
stay a virgin

I've participated in mbti threads in the past and the main takeaway is this, if youre INTelligent your result starts with INT. Now you can argue if INTP > INTJ or the other way around, but both get a passing grade from me.

https://youtu.be/Y_RCvsiavuM

INTJ. I'm pretty sure 4chan quite strongly attracts NT's.

>>11887860
Meh everything has its trade off I'm quite happy with myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fellow INTJ here. The only difference between me and other INTJs is I'm actually retarded

ashamed of that f

>>11885199
Lonely ENTJ here

Is this even possible? What's wrong with me? I'm studying medicine and never went to any of the parties they have (which are a lot).

>>11888037
>trying to shame an INTP

>>11888099

>>11886579
Jokes on you, I'm not.

>>11885199
I have taken this test multiple times and always come out INFP, which I think is pretty accurate overall
Just started dating a girl who tested ISTP
According to the Sites, we are not well matched - do you think it would still be possible if we worked at it?

This stuff got popular around girls recently for some reason. My gf did it so I did it with her, got INTJ. Then we tried it where we did the test for each other to see if our internal matches external, still got INTJ.

>>11888461
The predictive abilities of this shit is literally horoscopes tier. It works broadly to say where your (current) personality fits but beyond that it becomes pseudoscience.

>>11887860
INTPs are better off learning to convert their P into a J when the situation demands it. Because they understand systems well, an INTP would have the easiest time changing to a different type as needed... Though they might have to change to an ENTP to work up the necessary people skills to copy and then rework the functions that don't come naturally to them from other people.

>>11887979
Good guy anon

>>11888004
>>11888423
>>11887625

Master race

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-9fqbg_MJBCdjvvPY5HzXkWfmSQJzHMm/view?usp=sharing

>>11886286
>If you think MBTI is as pseudoscientific as astrology, you're the idiot, here. MBTI obviously isn't rigorous at all but still has plenty of legitimate value.
I always wondered about this. Where is the proof that MBTI is not just another pseudoscientific BS? It's literally just the barnum-effect. Change my mind.

>>11888855
MBTI is actually best known in tandem with astrology. If what occurs on lesser scales also occurs on greater scales, then it would follow that how the planets are arrayed in the sky at the time of birth would have some relation to a being that would begin its existence during that specific array.

>>11888855
All the MBTI does is take 4 sets of personality traits and says "if you have these 4 personality traits you have this type of personality." Where is the mistake in logic in that? Also I don't believe you know know what a Barnum statement even is.
>"Barnum statements", meaning general characterizations attributed to an individual are perceived to be true of them, even though the statements are such generalizations, they could apply to almost anyone

MBTI uses 4 sets of personality traits that are diametrically posed to each other. This is the exact opposite of a generalization, and by extension the exact opposite of a Barnum statement.

>>11887953
Its obviously true that some people like certain things that other people dislike and I wasn't trying to say anything otherwise.
However the terms "introvert" and "extrovert" are prescriptive, they carry an air of innateness which I strongly detest.
When people talk about extroversion and introversion, they often say "I dislike hanging with people out because I'm an introvert", and not "I'm an introvert because I dislike hanging out with people". It lends into a belief that one's nature was defined at birth or early childhood or adolescence, and that a person cannot use great effort to redefine themselves.

>>11888904
Wouldn't it be easier to redefine yourself if you knew the beginning definition?

How can I become more "Judging"?

>>11888917
If the definition of a word that you define yourself with carries innateness, any attempts to redefine yourself are immediately stifled.
I dont know what the exact psychological definitions of extraversion and introversion entail, I'm not a psychologist, but I get the impression from most people I've talked to about this that they believe its a fixed part of one's nature.
However, there isn't a consensus on when it is fixed, some of them think it's genetic while others think it might be based on what you experience during your early development.
Anyways, I guess my earlier post was a little gay and edgy because there are obviously extroverted and introverted people in the world, and it's probably not just because they are lazier than me or stupider than me or something like that. I guess my point is just that words, their construction, definition, and connotation, are quite powerful, and that I would very much like a new pair of words (which are more descriptive than prescriptive, and also have a negative connotation to motivate people into more balanced lifestyles) to describe the phenomenon of extroversion and introversion.

>>11886286
>Because the MBTI is a typology, we would expect that its scores would be distributed bimodally and not be normally distributed.
>The data indicate that there is no evidence of bimodal distributions for the MBTI. Instead, most people score between the two extremes. This means that although one person may score as an E, his or her test results may be very similar to those of another person's, who scores as an I.
>Research on the factor analysis of the MBTI has not produced convincing results. In one study, based on the results of l,291 college aged students, six different factors were found. In addition, the study authors found a high level of measurement error. Specifically, 83 percent of the differences among the students could not be accounted for by the MBTI. The results led the authors to the conclude that the factors found in the statistical analysis were inconsistent with the MBTI theory. In other studies, researchers found that the JP and the SN scales are correlated with one another. In sum, the statistical analysis of the test does not support the theory used to describe the MBTI.
>Finally, there is no evidence to show a positive relation between MBTI type and success within an occupation. That is, there is nothing to show that ESFPs are better or worse salespeople than INTJs are. Nor is there any data to suggest that specific types are more satisfied within specific occupations than are other types, or that they stay longer in one occupation than do others.
>In a recent review of the MBTI, commissioned by the Army Research Institute, it was concluded that the instrument should not be used for career planning counseling. The Institute's analysis of the available research showed no evidence for the utility of the test.
http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/Articles/develop/mbti.pdf

>>11888929
Conceive of an ideal world and then judge phenomena around you to either fall short of or meet up with that ideal. What falls short of the ideal can be ignored or actively maligned depending on how you want to play; what meets up with the ideal or might cause such a world should be expanded on. This is coming from an INTP that worked both their I and P to E and J.

I lived with an INTJ for several years and ripped off the parts of their personality I found useful then adapted them to my own needs.

>>11888900
>All the MBTI does is take 4 sets of personality traits and says "if you have these 4 personality traits you have this type of personality." Where is the mistake in logic in that?
Multiple mistakes.
A) It produces wildly inconsistent results. Around 50% get a different result after 5 weeks.
B) It claims to be a typology yet instead of people with the same test results for a give type being most similar to each other, the opposite is true and similarity is normally distributed with people of different adjacent types near one another being more similar than people within the same type
C) It fails formal factor analysis with 83% of differences between subjects not being accounted for by it
D) JP and the SN scales have been found to be correlated with one another, which means they aren't really distinct attributes and the model failed
E) It isn't predictive or otherwise useful when applied to career planning

>>11888970
A bigbrain can take any system and adapt it to their own needs, extracting meaning from even the most seemingly busted categorizations.

>>11886286
>If you think MBTI is as pseudoscientific as astrology, you're the idiot, here.
Wrong. Astrology isn't near as bad as MBTI. All astrology constitutes is ancient people trying to find correlations between seasonality and people or events. And there actually is evidence for a relationship between birth month and schizophrenia risk for example (likely because people born during colder months are more exposed to brain development impacting pathogens), so that puts their archaic attempts at pattern finding at least that much ahead of the failed MBTI system which was made up based on nothing by a couple women with no formal credentials who wanted to cash in on a bastardized Jung for Dummies nu-astrology.

>>11888982
t. brainlet
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Adding_epicycles

>>11888993
You needn't make it complicated. Just become even a tiny bit self aware and monitor your reactions and learn from that what applies to you and what doesn't. Use what applies to your advantage if it is advantageous, if it is NOT advantageous, then do something else.

See, NOT complicated.

>>11888993
lmao. That's a good article. I always thought Kantian thought was lost and replaced with idiots like Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Hegel. But apparently not. This article gave me hope. There are still people out there who (thank god) call out BS theorists that try to conform their theories to observations by making said theories complicated instead of eventually considering that their theory is just BS because the interpretation doesn't fit with reality (like the epicycle theory that assumed a geocentric system)

>>11888970
Thank you. This basically confirms what I assumed already. MBTI is just pseudoscientific BS like astrology. Let's move on. So, are there actually any good models out there that at least produce more or less consistent results?

>>11889018
Astrology is quite useful. For example, scorpios are quite adept at understanding power exchanges. The ruling planet of scorpio is pluto. Pluto is the planet at the very cusp of this system. A planet that is on the outside peering in can watch the way in which the other planets orbit and are caught in the gravity produced by the sun. In a way, gravity is equivalent to power. It makes sense that the planet that sits on the outside and peers in at the orbits of the rest of the planet has the best gauge on power or gravity. Astrology is more positional than it is anything else.

>>11889002
The point of the epicycles problem is that a model you need to constantly come up with exceptions and excuses for to force it to match reality isn't a good model.
At some point it's better to trash it and come up with a model that's more indictive reality instead of endlessly doubling down on a failed one.

>>11889071
Exactly.

>>11889071
It isn't doubling down on a failed model, it's correcting a model placed before you to match your set of experiences to make further sense of those experiences and provide you with a meaning that can then be utilized in later experiences. The tweak SHOULD provide you with more information while experiencing so any given experience is more meaningful. You're correcting for utility and meaning. Eventually you end up with a bunch of systems you can use to parallel your experiences, and in this you end up deriving more information from any given experience. The man using a net with a higher thread count catches more fish. Tweaking those systems to correspond to your experiences is building a net with a tighter mesh.

>>11888993
This is a good read but doesn't really apply to this situation. You can easily get use out of it without complicating things.

MBTI tests seem to fall down to "how I want to think" instead of "how I think".

>>11889320
It's worth having someone close to you fill it out for you. Interesting to see if the results differ.
I get INTJ for both.

>>11885199
any non-OCEAN personality test is retard tier and doesn't belong on /sci/

Non-Ns are subhuman desu

>>11885199

>>11888099

makes me believe NT is a shorter abbreviation for NEET.

>>11888990

fuck im at the peak

Entp-a, 134 iq, scorpio, year of the dog, 1/2/3/4, 6 min mile, 92kg 5'8, 22% bodyfat mech eng degree from redbrick, business owner, dad to a daughter, 2 on kinsey scale, norf brit, lost virgin at 19, bodycount:5, longest relationship (current) 7 years, Jungle main, pvp > pve, OPM and op best manga, browse qst/fit/a, white, my opinions > everybody else, against Brexit, centrist, athiest, politiscale, revolution/progress/work, love elon and Jordan peterson, fav colour is yellow, I enjoy swimming and skiing, drawing and writing, forever dm, Hawaiian is good

Cant think of anything else

>>11887998
Am i the only 1 who saw fellatio? Is that the point?

what should I do with my life?

>>11887888
>You'll come to realize this one day like I did after years of fruitless toiling to earn Physics and Chemistry degrees.

>I couldn't cope with my intellectual limitations so I adjusted my world view for the sake of ego.

>>11889625
you're not alone

>>11885199
INTJ here... the world pisses me off soo much lately frens...

>>11889018
>pseudoscientific
not totally tho, consider it 40% accurate

>>11885240
you are an absolute dumbass if you think that the accuracy of MBTI is the same as astrology.

>>11886286
The massive amount of cope is blinding.

>>11889700
I hope you're trolling. There's a time consistence in personality that allows it to be classified in clusters and be used to predict future behavior, or personality disorders for example would not exist. Astrology is totally retarded there's no correlation between planets, stars and human luck or behavior.

>>11888423
based, social shaming is to an INTP/J as rainfall on an umbrella

>>11889625
no it was made on purpose kek

>>11885199
It says here that I'm special

>>11885199
>>11887625
>>11887847
>>11887917
>>11887979
>>11888004
>>11888021
>>11888045
>>11888099
>>11888384
>>11888423
>>11888461
>>11888466
>>11888929
>>11889332
>>11889557
>>11889626
>>11889688
>>11889717
>>11889902
IN... fags >>>/r9k/
ENFJ master race.
Also if you aren't an -A you are a pussy.
>>11887674
>>11887829
>>11887852
>>11887888
>>11887893
>>11888990
>>11889034
Very based

>>11888796
Just because we are INT doesn't mean our logic isn't flawed, literally only have one string to our bow and when it fails us our whole world collapses because no one else can empathise.

The only way to keep our head above the water is to right every single time and even then, it's not enough for ourselves. I wouldn't have it any other way though, I can't imagine offloading my emotions or relying on someone else to "help" me haha

>>11889355
Does the fact that my results match from the ocean test and the mbti test mean anything to you?

>>11889626
Apparently waste away on 4chan