/sci/ - Science & Math

>>1185287
you've been trolled

that's pretty much all there is to it

>>1185287
The guy's making shit up / doesn't know what he's talking about. The fact that
J = kg * (m/s)^2
E = m * c^2
just means that the units work out in Einstein's equation. Without going into the mathematics of special relativity, Einstein's equation related conservation of energy with the apparent conservation of mass, among other things. It is not some stupid unit conversion.

Its almost as if the Joule is a unit of energy.

What is strange or interesting about that?

A Joule is a unit of energy.

>>1185287

your friend is smart, but maybe he wasnt making any conclusions, sharing his analysis.

logic check needed

>>1185324
That's what I was thinking - why would he be regarded so highly for that equation if it were just some kind of 'rewrite'.

The only reason I even decided to question this 'theory' of his is because of his overall average - you don't expect someone with those kind of marks to come up with stupid shit like that (he's not much of a joker).

Joule = Newton*meter = (mass*accelleration) *meter = kg *meter * meter/second² = kg * (m/s)²

Seems like Einstein got the idea for general relativity by looking at the equation for a Joule....

>>1185338
What's strange was his claim that Einstein wasn't as smart as people think he is and that anyone could have figured out 'E = mc^2' - then he wrote this down.

I probably should have included that in the first post.

>>1185357

Maybe he's just overly impressed by his own intelligence.

It's easy to get arrogant when you are a big fish in a small pond.

>>1185357
>>Einstein wasn't as smart as people think he is and that anyone could have figured out E = mc^2

hes probably a high schooler who's smarter than average and the knowledge is getting to his head.

>>1185370
I don't know if I can really call him 'smart'. Yes he's seen as such by his peers and teachers because of his close to 100 mark in every class, but I think it has more to do with his level of exposure to math and science at a young age (he was born in India).

He probably is smart to some extent, but I believe you can train anyone from a young age to be proficient like that - then the work you encounter later on is just a piece of cake.

>>1185346
The "real" equation, of which E=mc^2 is a special case, reads
<div class="math">E^2 = p^2c^2 + m^2c^4 </div>
No momentum, p=0, gives the famous equation. This is the more fundamental, and useful, equation, and is obviously not some unit conversion.

>>1185346
I know what you're saying, but I thought some dumb stuff too when I was in high school, and my grades were almost perfect. Grades just show you can answer the questions they ask you, not that you understand all of the underlying concepts perfectly.
And if you get into an argument with him, you may want to bring up Einstein's equation's prediction of the energy released by nuclear explosions when the fissioning of their nuclei cause the nuclei to be reduced in mass (which is a rather complicated phenomenon, but occurs until something has fissioned down to something like carbon 56).

>>1185357

Failing to see what einstein did. Tell him to read a book

>>1185401
This too.

>>1185357
Einstein didn't get his Nobel prize for SR but photoeffect.
Einstein didn't get his scientific reputation for E=mc^2 but for interpreting the physics that's been there for years correctly (Lorentz transformation); as a side-effect, you get E=mc^2.
Oh, and there's also GR, but that's also trivial to you I guess.

yep... joule is an unit of energy, kg is mass and so on

>>1185410
I can't remember who, but somebody said that Einstein will be best remembered for his summation notation (which was of course his editor's doing).

>>chemistry class
>>doesnt think einstein was smart
haha ok that guy doesnt know shit about physics

> there's also GR

there's also UFT

>>1185357
There were a few people who basically had the formula worked out

>>1185448
Oh, god that makes me throw up a little inside.

>>1185448
arrr, that be crap´!

we can simply model stuff like higher dimensions by doing:

oh, look our simple 2D vector-thingy works in 3D as well.
Ok, lets try movement with another dimension!
Oh, 4D is completely self consistent.
Ok, lets see what happens if we replace these dumb arrows with anything that abeys the same rules.
Oh, look its WIN!

"what it looks like" is a fucking moronic approach to abstract mathematics. Most subjects can be viewed in many different aspects and the geometrical picture we are so accustomed to from lowlevel math / physics is not a requirement for its function.

>>1185446
Well he's the one taking physics, but in my chemistry class. I used to be in his physics class but dropped it due to boredom. The teacher's lessons were no different than those in the textbook - in fact, they were exactly the same. Plus I only took the course as filler.

I find that if it's possible to teach myself a subject out of a textbook, I don't need a teacher for the lessons. I prefer having a teacher to refer to when I'm stuck - not to carry me through all the way. But you can't have your cake and eat it too...

What your friend showed was that the units in Einstein's equation works out. However, you could equally well find a constant D such that the units of the equation E=Dm^2 would have worked out, yet no such constant would make this a physical law, so his dimensional analysis is more or less useless.

>>1185448

what is this?

He is just showing off a useless little trick. It's like a philosophy major dismantling religious strawmen to seem smart.

>>1185431
Einstein summation is awesome. I've seen what Euler did when he derived the fundamental forms, and it's really nooot beautiful.

>>1185460
Yes. For example, Hilbert almost discovered special relativity before Einstein. (Again, not GR.)
It was time for SR, but GR is a huuuge step from that.

>>1185510
+1 for the notation

and SR is basically just lorentz contractions rewritten - no nobel prize. the thought is fascinating tho, and as a pretty basic physics subject ( simultanity etc) it is pretty well know - i guess thats why people mistake it for einsteins gift to humanity.

Try working out GR on the other hand.

the fact that your friend was able to discover that einsteins units are correct is not to impressive.
If it wasnt true, it would basically say that energy isnt energy

>>1185496

http://quantumfuture.net

>>1185481

your reaction is 'normal'