/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11837882
don't think so. They'd need to get nutrients somehow, and if they were close enough to the surface (where the nutrients are) we would've already detected them. unless they're really tiny, in which case something already exists and they're called moles

>>11837882
idk could there be an array of numbers we don't know about?

>>11837882
We have found out about past underground communities that we didn't know about. Why not?

>>11837888
They coud get energy from the temperature gradient, I think.

Not OP.

>>11838450
nutrients, not energy
unless the organisms are vastly different from us, there's not much usable stuff down there

Like an extinct civilisation which built underground structures? It's possible.
A living civilisation that's still thriving? Very unlikely since geologists would have detected their construction ages ago.

>>11837882
no. To expand they'd have to dump crap on the surface. We also haven't found any group of humans that doesn't use fire, which humans need in order to cook stuff. Fire's gonna make smoke and what are you gonna burn in a cave?

>>11837888
What about an underground dwelling race of pygmies

prarie dogs texas

>>11837882
Have you been reading Myst?

>>11837888
>what are caves

They'd be like tiny golum people!

>>11837888
What nutrients exist on the surface that don't exist deep in the ground?

I'm not really asking because I know there are none that exist only on the surface.

After reading Journey to the Center of the Earth I'd have to say yes.

>>11838507
Why would they need to expand?

Also they could simply dump crap on the ocean floor and go undetected. We haven't mapped all the ocean floors (1/5 mapped so far).

>>11838507
You can burn anything in a cave just as long as you dump the CO2 outside and take O2 in *OR* use energy to break down CO2 back into C and O2.

>>11838653
how would they dump crap on the ocean floor? They have a fucking underwater cave?

>>11838676
Why couldn't they have a cave under the sea floor or next to it?

Also, people dump crap on the ocean floor right now and we don't live in an underwater cave so that's not really a requirement anyway.

The best way to make a long-term cave is to not have to dump anything anyway, simply recycle everything. Dumping pretty much means that over time you will need to bring stuff back in.

>>11838713
>>Why couldn't they have a cave under the sea floor
real life isn't like the disney atlantis movie. And how would they get air?
>>next to it
yeah, like a bunch of rocks getting dumped into the water won't get noticed
>>The best way to make a long-term cave
if you want to make a cave you must dispose of the dirt/rocks

>>11838724
>And how would they get air?
Same way we all get. You breath it in.

The CO2 that you breath out gets taken in by plants and converted to the exact same amount of O2 that you inhaled. We don't magically conjure extra carbon into existence when we breathe out. We need to eat that carbon in the form of plants (or animals that ate those same plants) and for the plants to have that carbon, they need to take it from the atmosphere.

This is called the carbon cycle. CO2 doesn't increase due to humans breathing because the same amount is always taken in by the foods that we eat.

>>11838780
ok so how do you grow plants in a fucking dark cave?

>>11838724
>yeah, like a bunch of rocks getting dumped into the water won't get noticed

There is a lot more sea floor that has never been seen by a person than there is sea floor that has been seen.

>if you want to make a cave you must dispose of the dirt/rocks

So?

>>11838781
Using these things called light bulbs or LEDs for example.

Or maybe they skip photosynthesis altogether and make sugars out of air and water in a bioreactor and feed that sugar to the plants.

>>11838783
dumping rocks into the water from a cave beside the sea is likely to get noticed. A cave beneath the sea floor is ridiculous. It's also ridiculous for people to live in such caves if they existed.
>>11838786
so how you gonna support the industry necessary to make LEDs in a fucking cave? LEDs require a number of different elements to make and you ain't gonna get all of em' practically from one fucking cave. And why would a civilization capable of making LEDs and some ridiculous power source to power em' decide to hide in a fucking cave forever? Such civilizations couldn't hide too, cause they'd have to dispose of waste heat and that's gonna get noticed. Any digging would probably get noticed too as that has a seismic signature.

>>11837882
Probs an alien outpost someowhere at the bottom of one of our oceans. Sea area is 3x larger than the land you see around you so i aint far off to hide a place to spook nimitz pilots from

>>11838791
>LEDs require a number of different elements to make and you ain't gonna get all of em' practically from one fucking cave.

Of course you could get them from one cave. Even seawater has every element. Just about any cave will have everything even though the concentration would be low.

It was not specified as to how advanced the civilization would be technologically. A stone age civilization is not going to live underground. Our current civilization just might if expansion was limited or not allowed and storages were huge, although it's a stretch.

>And why would a civilization capable of making LEDs and some ridiculous power source to power em' decide to hide in a fucking cave forever?

Maybe it's safer there and they got some nice holodecks.

>Such civilizations couldn't hide too, cause they'd have to dispose of waste heat and that's gonna get noticed.

There's plenty of heat underground anyway so you could easily hide any waste heat. Or dump it in the ocean.

>Any digging would probably get noticed too as that has a seismic signature.

There's no requirement for digging unless you are expanding. And digging can be done without a noticeable seismic signature when it's done slow and nice enough. Especially if you're deep underground.

>>11838810
>> Even seawater has every element
notice that I said practically? We can extract gold from seawater but don't because it's not economically viable
>> plenty of heat underground anyway
uhhh... I don't think you understand how heat engines work. In order to power said lights you gotta reject heat somewhere
>>Or dump it in the ocean
and that could be detected. So basically it seems you keep adding ways for such a civilization to be undetectable without suggesting a practical means of detecting them. Magical undetectable civilization are not /sci/, they are /x/.

>>11838649
Then you're stupid. You can get most minerals from the ground but you also need amino acids which you couldn't all get from the ground.

>>11838834
>notice that I said practically? We can extract gold from seawater but don't because it's not economically viable

It's not economically viable because it takes a lot of work and energy using current technology. The level of technology has not been dictated so this is not a problem in itself.

>uhhh... I don't think you understand how heat engines work. In order to power said lights you gotta reject heat somewhere

Maybe stop thinking if it's really that hard for you. Of course you're going to need to reject the heat somewhere. You can reject it to the rock (lots of rock required but lots of rock available also) or to the ocean.

>and that could be detected.

It could be detected as a black smoker for example.

No one is talking about anything magical.

>>11838839
I'm stupid even though you're the one who doesn't even know where amino acids come from? You're talking to someone who has studied biochemistry at a university.

Amino acids are produced by plants and animals. We humans synthesize some of them and get some of them from the foods we eat (the so-called essential amino acids). You only need water, air and sulphur to make them (some plants need a nitrogen source other than air).

>>11838870