/sci/ - Science & Math

When we going mars?

BIG FUCKING CRANE

>>11829133
Starships on Mars by 2026 at the latest

>>11829127

>>11829135
for context, this is the crane they're going to be using to stack the big Super Heavy and Starship High Bay
https://www.manitowoc.com/manitowoc/lattice-boom-crawlers-cranes/18000

Anyone know what pressure it reached before exploding

>>11829141
it's just nitrogen, dumbass

>>11829135
based

>>11829145
the SpaceX engineers do
now we wait for them to tell Elon, and for him to brag about it on twitter

>>11829127
I wonder how many frozen animals are there in aftermath.

>>11829145
I'm sure someone will post it here as soon as Elon tweets about it. Just sit back and monitor the thread.

>>11829154
Frozen steaks for everyone.

>>11829143
sick

>>11829133
manned starship by 2026 at latest, cargo by 2022 at earliest

>>11829127
Elons twitter silence is deafening, looks like it failed lads.

oh no it exploded oh god oh fuck the sky is falling hurf derf

when will non-NASA and non-SpaceX astronauts start getting shipped to mars, as in actual colonists

>>11829156
>>11829151
any bets on over under 8,5 bar mark
betting on under

I think Earth will collapse into anarchy shortly after a Martian colony is established.

Anons, I am going camping for three days starting tomorrow. Therefore, I will not be around to post the Falcon 9 launch thread. For the first time in years, someone else will have to post it—so, I'll just paste the OP body in /sfg/ tomorrow morning before I leave. It will have as much filled in as possible (minus livestream link etc). Then one of (you) will have to make the thread with it at the appropriate time, including the yt link etc.
Feel free to fight it out over who gets to stand-in for being the launchthread poster. This is a rare opportunity!

See you all tomorrow with the OP text. I'm off to go pack my bags.

>>11829196
Only US.

>>11829200
That’s basically the world.

>>11829204
all empires think they are "basically the world"

>>11829204
World wasn't destroyed when Rome, Aztecs, Egypt, Mongols collapsed.

>>11829209
They usually are for a while.

>>11829196
Why?

>>11829199
what Falcon 9 launch? I thought that happened yesterday?

>>11829216
Rome thought they were basically the world, but the empire in china would say otherwise...

>>11829221
yeah but China collapsed on its own so fuck them

>>11829220
It's on the 25th. Another batch of Starlink + a couple BlackSky Global smallsats

>>11829233
what time?

So how “alive” are spacecraft? They seem pretty autonomous and are capable of independent thought and reasoning.

Cassini also final plunge often has accounts of Cassini trying her damndest to stay oriented looking at Earth and her struggles to correct orientation in her final few seconds.

I know a lot of that is anthropomorphism, but seriously, how alive are space probes?

Also it feels...sad... when a space probe is just “shut off”. Like Kepler or Dawn. It’s almost like taking your dog to the vet to put them down.

>robotic space dog running around in a disaster area as if it were a scene out of a apocalyptic war with AI
2spooky4me

>>11829228
CCP china is going to collapse soon if the three gorges dam rumors are true.
So long march first stage wiping out rural chinese villages could be a thing of the past soon.

>>11829234
4:39 PM EDT

>>11829243
fuck, work starts at 4 pm EDT for me

>>11829238
Can people who film this get a better lens/camera to get a closer view?

>>11829253
No, atmosphere is a fuck

>>11829235

>Are proves alive?

"AIEOU"

"UUUUUUUUUU…"

"John Madden!"
https://www.sbnation.com/a/17776-football
"Football!"


Maybe.

>>11829262
17776 is the best thing ever

>>11829235
>how alive are space probes?
As alive as you make them.

>>11829215
Yeah, but the place was shitty for a good while afterwards. It all seems ephemeral when the events are seen through the dusty pages of historical documents; but for the people involved, it was a life-changing terror.

>>11829235
they're about as alive as any other autonomous robot

>>11829217
Global social unrest.

>>11829186
2022

>>11829209
For a time, they are.

>>11829239
>if the three gorges dam rumors are true
Which rumors are those? If the thing is breaking down already I will kek

>>11829287
What would cause it?

>>11829293
looking for serious answers

>>11829141
thanks for giving me an idea

>>11829298
Rain season this year has created massive flooding upriver of the 3GD and rumors say it already took out a couple of smaller dams.
A massive amount of water is underway to the dam and a lot of people are questioning if the dam could take it, partly because the dam is a shitshow and CCP is cracking down hard on the situation and claiming nothing is wrong as usual.
600 million people and most of china's economy is downstream of the dam.

>>11829301
I dunno, whatever is causing the current social unrest.

>>11829325
come on water!

India's space agency will be live tomorrow, possibly making an announcement?

Stream should be on this channel @ 06:00 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw5hEVOTfz_AfzsNFWyNlNg/videos

>I'd be more upset that [Senator Wicker] uses "manned" spaceflight, but so did Elaine Chao yesterday at COMSTAC. What will it take for ppl to stop using that anachronistic term? Don't they realize it just highlights how old and out of step with the times they are?
when will far left liberals stop infesting spaceflight news with their antics

From earlier

hmmmmmm
delicious high temperature bonding agent
the forbidden fruit gusher

>>11829342
pay no attention to them they'll be let here to die soon enough.

>>11829352
not very impressed with whoever applied the schmoo

>>11829342
>when will far left liberals stop infesting spaceflight news with their antics

When they destroy human civilization

ahaha!
found it

>>11829317
At first I assumed you were replying to a post about the Indian launch.

Hydrazine. Ok.

>Starship SN5 testing is scheduled to begin June 29 with a window opening at 8 am local time in Boca Chica, Texas.
>The vehicle will roll to the pad tomorrow (June 24) between 6 am - 7 am local.

>>11829302
2026

>>11829373
launch when tho?

What are the long-term goals for Mars colonisation? I'm thinking large arcologies, connected by a network of tunnels.

>>11829325
Kek
Let's hope we get to see Banqiao Disaster 2, Yangtze Boogaloo

>>11829378
Large statues of pagan olympic and germanic gods on Olympus Mons and pyres made of niggers.

>>11829378
How long term are you thinking?
Endgame colonization for any object is disassembly for raw materials to build orbital space habitats.

>>11829378
That’s a hive city right there

>>11829378
Large tunnel networks connecting multiple cities ala NYC subway stations

>>11829383
based dyson swarm guy

>>11829385
hive cities are actually a lot bigger

>>11829381
Who in their right mind would use up payload margins to bring dead niggers to Mars?

>>11829381
based

>>11829386
Normal subway trains are to slow for this. If the arcologies are far enough, you'd need something like Hyperloop. But how would you get around inside one? Elevation stations?

>>11829402
It’s a moral booster

>>11829365
that also helped
>>11829350
see >>11829317

>>11829262
>https://www.sbnation.com/a/17776-football

What the fuck is going on in there

Does anyone know which Starship prototype will hop?

>>11829443
SN5.

I want to achieve one or both of two things before I die of being old.

1. Get off Earth
2. Modify my anatomy to the extent I am no longer human

Dunno if that’ll be possible tho

>>11829443
sn7

>>11829443
>>11829127

>>11829408
You don't need hyperloop. Just a regular loop like Elon's Boring Company has built. Also it can be either elevators or slope ramps. Given the initial size of Mars colony would host few thousands/millions, thats more than enough. Outside "visitors center" type buildings can be erected at each subway stations for people to get outside look of mars, while living in a host of large underground communities next to each loop stops. The loops could be the "river basins" of Mars colony.

>>11829133
I don't want to /pol/ this place up, but what's the chance the first person to step foot on Mars will be female, black or both?

>>11829408
>But how would you get around inside one?
Imagine the structure is divided into layers, with each layer being its own self contained habitat full of buildings. A layer is 200 to 300 feet tall, and you get around like in any other city. To go from one layer to another, you get onto something like a hybrid between an elevator and a ferry; it goes up and down between layers on a schedules route, carrying passengers and cargo, and there are lots of them.

>>11829127
Gods, this was fun at the beginning, but can spaceX not blow up something for a change?

>>11829456
Too high

>>11829459
Blowing things up is cool

>>11829459
No, this is how they're learning.

>>11829459
Cry more, that's testing

>>11829456
Little, look at the astronaut corps, even now its mostly white males. Because they are recruited from military based on their own merits.

>>11829408
hyperloop is pointless on mars with 6 milibars of pressure, just run maglev

>>11829127
I love how they tied it to the stand, and it just took the stand with it.

>>11829446
Hop when?

>>11829472
Maglev in a tube underground is still good, because it solves thermal expansion issues

>>11829451
>Also it can be either elevators or slope ramps
I was talking more in terms of >>11829457. Something like a large elevator with a circular room and concentric rings of back-to-back subway chairs. Put a bunch of them in the center of an arcology, add some seatless ones for cargo, and you've got yourself an elevation station.

>>11829469
odds are, the "first" to something from here on out will be politically appointed as opposed to by pure merit or chance

>>11829235
Shutting them down isn't the end anon, they are on a great journey that noone knows how it will end

>>11829484
It might be simpler to simply expand horizontally instead of vertically. If building vertically, then add ramps on each side. I'd rather fat habitation zone than long. At most, no more than 2-3 layers. Elevators are extra energy resource hog and prone to expensive breakdowns/repairs.

>>11829238
Wait what happened i missed it

>>11829459
SN7 was meant to be tested to failure. Blowing it up unironically gets them closer to the final product

>>11829508
spot bark at tank tank fall over in surprise

>>11829496
Something like a parking lot structure is space efficient imo.

>>11829350
Wtf are they using for propellant

>>11829352
Yeah this messy construction aint gonna hold up for orbital flights

>>11829456
As long as they are competent, I don't care. Although it quite worrying that NASA advertises the Artemis program with such words.

>>11829486
This unfortunately. They'll have some woman astronaut take the first step even though the white man will be the real leader of the mission.

>>11829486
Who cares. Especially if it stifles the Dems from scrapping the whole enterprise.

Look I hate to say it but EVA's are shit anyway. They're much better written or read as stories. They make for comparatively rubbish video viewing after the launch and landing.

>you can probably convince progressives to spend a fuckton of money on space if you make the first person on Mars a minority
Kek

>>11829519
standard hypergolics

>>11829518
Make it arcology sized and you need separate layers because your atmosphere will be sinking to the lowermost layers otherwise. For a pressurized habitat even a few hundred meters tall that's not a big deal, but if you want to tower up a dozen kilometers and dig down another six kilometers into the surface, you really do need to segment the thing.

>>11829529
Even the name artemis is because of muh womyn. I have hope with jim because the women he appoints are qualified but I feel sick when i think about the male astronauts at NASA because odds are that the most qualified is a male

>>11829551
This is a really good idea.

>>11829564
>hundreds of meter
>dozens of kilometer deep
Why tho?

We only need to dig down few meters to get full radiation protection. Maybe few dozen meters for full tunnels/etc and 1-2 story buildings. Not hundreds or kms. We're not going full mole-rat, we only need to go down long enough for the initial phase of colony. Until we can develop infrastructure to build above hardy surface materials to augment the underground colony.

my school’s PRONTER.
As you can see, it produces immaculate results. Mars-habitat worthy

>>11829597
>that backsplash
You can't fool me, nice designated cumming station anon

>>11829597
Yeah your schools poorfag printer isn't proof of shit. Take the print pill

>>11829616
behold the proontfag and his crowning achievement: renders

>>11829616
just thinking about all the single points of failure in a 3D habitat printer is making me woozy.

>>11829597
Whose shitty idea was it to print it that way?

>>11829127
It's a real testament to the material properties of the steel that this was able to rupture fairly slowly and jet itself up in the air but not kaboom.
Steel is fucking great, guys.

>>11829626
Try again loser

>>11829637
Welcome to Mines

>>11829592
Not that anon, but an underground living area with the diameter and depth of that arcology has far more livable area. It has nothing to do with shielding at that point. Besides which, for the people inside there's basically no difference whatsoever, and at that point the interior will have plenty to see.

>>11829644
>1:3 scale
>no standards for radiation, pressurization, the ability to cope with unlevel ground, or anything whatsoever beyond being stable under a couple tons of weight
yes i know what trash looks like, you post a lot

>>11829647
People need to get outside the colony. You can't have people living in mars underground forever. They have to get outside and get sunlight/sunset. We're building a sustainable colony, not a prison. That means building above ground is the eventual goal and building couple dozen meter down for initial protection from environment/initial survival.

>>11829632
That was their "super aesthetic earth concept" because they planned to sell a few on earth.

>>11829551
>Literally the only person on the surface of the whole planet
>Still a 'minority'

>>11829662
Build a fucking elevator you obnoxious baby

>print hab
>pressurize
>haha hab go boom

>>11829666
Its an overtly complex system requiring overtly expensive maintenance. The whole reason for initial underground structure is low maintenance/sufficient protection/low resources. If you're at the point where resources are a non-issue, then outside structure is the way to expand, not digging deeper.

>>11829664

>>11829654
>you post a lot
I don't, I just started looking into this yesterday, uneven ground is a non issue and so is radiation as this level of the competition wasn't meant for that, these materials and designs showed NASA a lot and has furthered the printing research.

>>11829678
>can't shut the fuck up about proonting for ten seconds
>has the exact same images from the last 50 fucking threads
>I just started looking into this yesterday
Kill your clone then, we don't need two of you

>>11829262
That was a fucking experience

>>11829577
> Even the name artemis is because of muh womyn

That’s a shoe-in though. Artemis is Apollo’s sibling

>>11829683
There are more than 2 I'm sure. Also there are only so many images anon.

>>11829676
kek

>https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/23/senators-ufo-government-reports-336021
Reminder the whole "tictac" UFO is real. The congress wants more transparencies/more responses/intelligence from these apparent intrusions. By UFOs, they're saying unidentified, not Aliens. Absence of conventional knowledge is not gateway to supernatural knowledge.

>>11829686
a shoe in for what? There are much better names with the theme

>>11829693
>a shoe in for what?

The name of the mission dummy what else would you call it

>>11829127
Was this an intentional test to failure?

>>11829262
That really was our generations Moon landing. So glad i was alive to live that.

>>11829686
Apollo tricks Artemis to kill Orion. That's the whole point of the name. They're going to Moon, regardless of SLS/Orion.

>>11829674
How the fuck is someone who thinks elevators are too complex going to build a 2 mile tall arcology? Are you actually retarded

>>11829690
What's advantage of printing over building in by own hands? You don't need big ass crane, printer head and so much parts that can break.

Printing anything larger rocket nozzles is stupid.

>>11829702
Not sure if you're retard or stupid. Why would someone build 2 mile tall archeology and not build a elevator? Why would someone build an elevator for dozen meter depth environment?

Low depth + ramp + sideways expansion (not downward and not elevators) is what I'm saying should be the way to colonize Mars.

>>11829646
Is colorado school of mines full of PROOOOONT fags

>>11829716
Yeah.
We do have a cool additive mfg / advanced mfg degree, and the first space resources program in the nation

>>11829698
Orion is a constellation program holdover.

>>11829694
Apollo makes sense because he is associated with light and the sun, artemis is wild animals and the hunt it doesn't make sense other than muh womyn. Nyx, demeter or athena would all be better choices for goddesses and that is why its annoying

>send cargo Starships on one-way trips to Mars carrying equipment
>send manned Starship to Mars
>need an additional home
>strip used cargo Starships
>dig trench
>drop stripped cargo Starship into trench
>cover trench
>wet workshop the inside of the buried Starship
>feng shui the shit out of the living space
>have a durable and spacious home on Mars
>invite printerlets over when their printer fails again
Oh yeah, living the life.

>>11829718
why do you have a degree for something that MIGHT be useful in ten years

>>11829713
First, I thought this was long term. Spreading out and colonizing free land doesn't last forever. Second, people will not colonize as a uniform low density mat across the surface. High density areas will form.

>>11829726
Tell that to our petroleum eng department lol

>>11829730
no petroleum engineering is still useful

>>11829721
artemis is the twin of apollo

>>11829729
>Spreading out and colonizing free land doesn't last forever

Onwards to Ceres!

>>11829747
And the galilean moons!

>>11829747
Yeah, and? The same thing will happen there. People aren't gonna just stop making developing high density urbanized areas just because they could move onto the next rock instead. They'll do both.

>>11829704
In the tests they were able to print for 30 hours with hardly any human interference and the structures performed well. That means when the tech is fleshed out they will be able to print autonomously. Autonomous printing would be beneficial because you can build habs for astronauts before they arrive. Printing is also an easy way to use martian regolith to produce a habitat without having to ship in materials. Its also easily melted back down and reusable compared to stand methods. Its very simple so workers can focus on infrastructure and powerplant needs.

>>11829756
>Printing is also an easy way to use martian regolith to produce a habitat without having to ship in materials.
So you need a trench digger to feed the printer? Why not just dig the trench and put a prefab hab in there?

>>11829381
i would actually move there if this were the case

>>11829721
Artemis is also the goddess of the Moon, you donut

>>11829597
Yeah, fuck that shit. I'd get better results using my bare hands.

>>11829760
>So you need a trench digger to feed the printer?
no?
>Why not just dig the trench and put a prefab hab in there?
Why waste time money and cargo space on prefab habs?

>>11829676
>WHO LIVES IN A PROONTAPPLE ON MARS
>SPERGPANTS APU!

>>11829763
The artemis program is a moon mars initiative so why not call it aries?

>>11829729
>Spreading out and colonizing free land doesn't last forever
Mars is BIG. It can support few billions easily.

>>11829744
>muh twin
And? How is that significant in any way?

>>11829754
>Yeah, and? The same thing will happen there

Onward to Eris!

>>11829767
>no?
But to feed the proonter with Martian soil one would need a way to dig, and if one can dig then they can dig a trench.

>Why waste time money and cargo space on prefab habs?
Why not just use the spent propellant tanks?

>>11829756
I'm fucking tired of this printer shit. It was cool for three threads. I don't care if it's the original shill, his brother, mother, or john doe. Fuck off.

What's up with photon, is there gonna be a market for lightweight interplanetary probes? And what's the future of RocketLab in general?

>>11829771
artemis is moon centric so the name is apt

>>11829775
Some elements of NASA just want to repeat what Apollo did (i.e. boot prints and flags), so the name seems appropriate.

>>11829771
Lol, Look up the ares 5

>>11829756
>the structures performed well.
At holding up a backhoe. While sitting unpressurized on level ground on earth at earth temperatures, with a stationary printer.
And still had to use materials not indigenous to the martian surface. A printer that can actually produce structures like the renders you dream of hasn't been built, and that's barely even the first step. It needs an entire autonomous support crew of trenchers, loaders, levelers, some way to ISRU the fucking plastic, etc. Meanwhile SpaceX is just going to send up the backhoe but electric.

>>11829781
There's always gonna be a market for small shit. Not everybody wants to or can wait for rideshare shit no matter how high the launch cadence is. You'll always be at the mercy of whatever the angle the biggest shit going up is supposed to go up at. Next year, Andøya starts up proper too and North Star will move off the drawing board, so that's another small sat launcher, only from Northern Norway.

>Can’t just build Martian concrete culverts, then stack and glue them together into an arcology

>>11829781
if the future does produce cheaper launch cost then yes, there will be a market for space vessel parts
i imagine companies launching orbital data servers
maybe 4chan can launch its own server up to space to avoid censorship if it gets that bad

>>11829781
RocketLab is doing fine as I understand it, but they're crazy if they're not looking over their shoulder. SpaceX is rapidly growing in the smallsat market but RL has enough versatility to maintain a niche. I'm glad they're pursuing reusability at least.

>>11829729
If we allocate each person 30 cubic meter of apartment on mars, that will give us enough space to support 15 million on a 5 km x 5 km x 20 meter area. 30 cubic meter apartment is roughly equivalent to a 20 feet shipping container. Ofcourse to only support 1 million people, we can just build 1 km x 1 km x 30 meter deep city on Mars.

>>11829778
>and if one can dig then they can dig a trench.
Depends on the machine
>Why not just use the spent propellant tanks?
What spent propellant tanks? Seems like a health risk

>>11829801
Are you the norway anon? I remember the guy talking about Andøya.

I can't help but cheer for all non US, China, and India space programs. Russia, Arabs, Europe, doesn't matter. Studying international relations and would love to get into space policy after. The more nations involved the larger the job market.

>>11829815
This is what gives me comfort. They've done an excellent job of becoming a one stop shop for everything smallsat. Convenience is huge plus in something as complex as making and launching satellites.

>>11829839
What health risk, it's methane and lox. It's not fucking hybergolic. Just vent it and remember to close the valves afterwards. The fuck do you have to worry about

>>11829842
There may be more than one of us here, but yes, I am from Norway. I'm quite happy they finally funded that shit up there. 100 new jobs in aerospace on site and quite a few more in making shit.

>>11829781
>I'm fucking tired of this printer shit.
Get fucking over it. You guys bitch and moan about it every fucking thread. Mars is happening this decade and habitation speculation is a very important part of the future operations. If you don't want to talk about it the don't reply and actually post about something else. These threads bump painfully slow as it is and you fucks aren't adding shit to the conversation.

>>11829848
Mostly cancer and illness associated with living in a fucking propellant tank.

>>11829859
I'm pretty sure posting this poorly is worse for your health than breathing in trace fumes of non-toxic fucking methalox

>>11829789
ARES 5 wasn't a program

>>11829799
it was one test in a series of tests that NASA is using for R&D whats your point? SN7 popped so i guess starship is useless.

>>11829850
Really cool stuff. North Star is the launch vehicle they're planning correct? 10kg payload isn't a bad start. Kino launch site as well.

>>11829853
>starts conversation about photon and small sats
>still bitches about not adding anything to the convo
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

>>11829873
By next month SpaceX will have already tested at least one more prototype. When's the next round of testing for the buttplug you shill so much?

Mars is cool and all but what about living in stations that hang out next to asteroids? Would that eventually be feasible?

Are there asteroids large/rich enough in minerals to support construction of colony stations?

>>11829888
Gonna need a really big space industry to be feasible. There's already phobos and deimos, which are probably gonna be the more relevant asteroids for the next century.

>>11829888
Yes, asteroids in our system could support trillions of human beings.

>>11829883
Yeah, it's fucking beautiful up north.
The entire tech line is based on the Nucleus hybrid. It's particularly exciting, but can be scaled and only releases water vapor.

>>11829897
*it's not particularly exciting.
Here's an extra picture with some specs of the initial launch vehicle.

Who keeps spamming that stupid fucking printing shit. That habitat is goddamn ugly and honestly people don’t wanna be bugmen in those weird hives.

People are probably just gonna use wet-workshops at first and cover them in mars regolith. I can see printing happening after that, but Jesus anything but that design.

>>11829456
>I don't want to /pol/ this place up
It's like when they say I'm not gay but I like cock

>>11829901
The fact that it's a solid booster that can be stopped and reignited is what's kind of interesting with it.

>>11829897
>>11829901
Hydrolox? I read something about a 2020 launch test. Is that true?

>>11829893
>>11829896
What’s the biggest hurdle in constructing large scale stations for habitation?
In-space manufacturing? Getting oxygen to them? Water? Maintaining large pressurized spaces?

>>11829378
>arcologies

>>11829915
Nucleus has already launched. North Star, I believe next year. Need to upgrade the pads which they're now funded for. It's hybrid solid. A rubber compound and hydrogen peroxide. Can be stopped and reignited.
I wish it was a proper turbopump biprop, but if I want that, I got to make it myself.

>>11829896
quintillions*

>>11829888
16 Psyche is a giant (>200 km wide) chunk of nearly pure nickel-iron and other heavy metals. It's going to supply the rest of the solar system with metals for a long time once somebody sets up shop there.

>>11829919
Willpower, already available land on Earth and elsewhere, and cost of launching. Actual manufacturing shouldn't be too hard with a modular design. Achievable by starship for sure.

>>11829925
How does the stopping and reigniting work?

>>11829934
Not sure. Nammo makes it and they're not sharing. They're a fucking weapons manufacturer.

>>11829925
Wow, that's quite interesting actually. Northrup Grumman needs to get in contact with these Nammo people, maybe learn a few things.

>but if I want that, I got to make it myself.
Norway's space program awaits.

>>11829934
I would assume it has something to do with the fact liquid propellant is involved.

>>11829930

>Psyche and Ceres at war (again)
>Earth-funded battleships hover kilometers over the surface of Psyche, turning any troops there into glass
>Martian destroyers swoop in en masse, but are swatted out of the sky by the massive battleships.
> MDN Mariner DD-772 has been damaged due to debris. Life support has failed. The ship’s reactor is coming apart and turned the lower decks into molten metal
>Mariner began her service twenty years ago. As a part of her commemoration, actual pieces of the space probe Mariner 4, which had to be hunted for in interplanetary space, were melted down and turned into her first structural panel.
>In the present, Mariner’s captain realizes his ship is going to die, and fired her engine one last time directly at Psyche itself
>Mariner hits Psyche at 1.5% the speed of light
>Debris from the impact devastated Earth’s fleet in Low Psyche Orbit
>Mars gains another foothold in the Second Asteroid Cold War
>Appalled by this loss, Earth accelerated the development of their new antimatter-fueled Battleship in the depths of the Kuiper Belt

>>11829951
lol, USA is on our customer lists. Who the fuck do you think makes your newest anti ship missiles?
That's Kongsberg though.
Either way, it's hybrid, meaning it's a rubber solid compound and a liquid oxidizer in this case hydrogen peroxide. I assume it's a hypergolic reaction in some way and the trick is in making it burn evenly in a pattern.
In that case, it's just a matter of cutting the oxidizer and it fizzles out, then reintroducing the oxidizer when you want reignition.

Still, a good party trick to get it to burn evenly.

>>11829865
Edgy, I'm sure sustained living in concentrated methalox is great for the body

>>11829902
As opposed to what? Underground like ants?

>>11829968
More of what little is left of your brain leaks out with every post you make and somehow pointing out the problem is edgy

>>11829882
in a few months

>>11829883
>implying the electron and cube sats haven't been discussed to death already

>>11829957
that is a horrible warship design

>>11829981
Well, he was asking about the photon.

>>11829968
Concentrated? It's methane. Easy to vent out what's left of it if needed, tiny traces aren't dangerous and I breath them all the time because I cook food with that (and not always it burns immediately).

>>11829959
Hahaha I knew it.

>By May 2017, the extended-range Boeing RGM-84 Harpoon and Lockheed Martin LRASM had been withdrawn from the Navy's Over-the-Horizon Weapon System (OTH-WS) competition, leaving the NSM as the only remaining contender.
Based Norwegians BTFOing LockMart and Boing

Speaking of Euros, What's your guy's thoughts on Airbus? Looking for space related companies to invest in and also at a big discount. Even if Ariane is cancelled, Airbus is sure to be a big player in the successor as Europe and the French will never suck up their pride and rely on america. Welcome any thoughts on their plane business as well. Although I doubt it's worse than boeing.

>

>>11830001
I'm not big on shit designed by committee no matter who does it and Airbus is designed by committee and furthermore built by committee.
But at least it doesn't want to plow the ground.

>>11829373
Is it gonna be another pressure test? Wouldn't it be pointless since the one that blew up had better welding/materials than SN5?

>>11830017
Every single one of them is going to have to start with pressure testing. Such is life.

>>11830019
Right. I guess what I was asking is whether they plan to test it until it breaks.

>>11830022
Who knows.

>>11829551
This is exactly what they're doing with Artemis.

>>11829781
They'll hold onto a limited launch market for a while since ridesharing isn't good for every mission. A larger, more reusable smallsat launcher feels like a good next step that they could develop in the meantime.
I don't know the economics of Photon, though I imagine the market for those is safer than the launch market.

Boca Chica build site, June 23rd, photographed from a Cessna

You think space will become a wild frontier like the American West or will it be boring and mundane?

>>11829723
>wave to casketship bro
>watch as expendable starship lands and opens
>take inflatable hab
>drag it to another trench lent by burybro
>laugh with burybro as proontard's robot jams again

>>11829721
Well, if Artemis does start actually using the moon's resources, it could be considered moon hunting.

>>11830078
Way more regulation unfortunately

>>11830076
if a plane can go to space and take pictures why do we need starship

>>11830078
Depends on the budget of the United States Space Force, the DOD's military transport capabilities, and the Government's ability to move Federal law enforcement around on short notice.

>>11830078
Potentially yes, it could get very interesting. Especially in places like the asteroid belt where there are very few people who will care about you if you end up getting robbed.

>>11830080
Can't wait to see proonting on mars just for the salt it'll mine.

>>11830097
I see your buttplugs and raise you a PISSCRETE.
https://phys.org/news/2020-03-geopolymer-concrete-moon-bases-astronaut.html

SN7 test aftermath with SpaceX's own Boston Dynamics Spot robot, Zeus, making a cameo

>>11830076
They should have proper launch pad with flame ducts.

>>11830101
They're building one. Have you been sitting under a rock for the past week?

>>11830101
They're building it already.

>>11830101
Soyuz is so smol

>>11829696
yes for the 15 tredecillionth time

>>11830099
Its perfect, proonted pisscrete is what we need to meme into reality

>>11830101
These 8' wide rebar cages are the corner foundation supports for the Superheavy launch pad.

>>11830097
T b h proonting itself isn't what annoys me, it's the damn pencil sharpener glade solid air freshener artfaggotry that gets my britches in a twist. Proonters should instead extrude intricate brick shapes and stuff to decorate boring looking habitats and pieces to make simple storage buildings.

>>11830106
>>11830105
Where. I guess you mean that metal chair.

>>11829957
this is fucking stupid

>>11830116
Ok.

>>11830116
Imagine the destruction

>>11830117
The round egg shapes is more a side effect of what's practical from the printer than anything stylistic. It's faster to print in round circles continuously than it is to do angles with starts and stops.
It's sheer practicality, nothing more. Printing bricks would take even longer because you'd have to wait for each brick to harden then clean up each and every one of them. Waste of time and the antithesis of printing in the first place. Speed is half the point.

>>11829235
not very. Locking on to earth is something that can be done with a simple control loop. Do not attempt to fuck spacecraft. Many have dangerous chemicals, pyrotechnic fasteners, and high voltage ion thrusters. I'd say some are less autonomous than some robots. I don't think any space probe can navigate on its own.

>>11830126
>Speed is half the point
Speed is one of the main problems with printing at structural scales. The entire reason buttplug meme uses plastic in its construction is so that it can take up less volume because proonting any appreciable thickness/volume is so much less efficient than any other method.
Anon you're replying to was just talking about decoration not structure so time is much less critical.

>>11830120
>Where. I guess you mean that metal chair.
Apologies for the trash tier resolution, nothing more current in better resolution is out in the wild yet. The pad area on the right side of the image with the construction equipment is where they're building the launch pad.

>>11830135
Yeah i saw it, i wonder if its going to be as big as N-1 launch pad, its still exist now.

>>11830126
>Speed is half the point
Then why even spend effort doing that crap? Why not just send inflatable habs and just inflate when settled? Oh and by the way, said habs are designed to withstand stabs and bullets to effectively be immune to micrometeorite strikes, so they don't exactly rupture easily.

>>11829378
making it self sustaining without imports from earth. It's quite likely a mars colony will require food imports for DECADES. Most people in this thread ignore this problem and scream greenhouses without actually doing the math on how much food greenhouses can actually provide.

>>11830148
>inflatables
>on a fucking planet
It's one thing to put some shit in zero G and inflate it, it's something else when gravity is involved.
Gravity is a fucking bitch. The fucking mockups they have on display are not fully functional.

>>11830151
We could use funguses for emergency foods. Just reprocess waste products, feed the funguses with said waste, and harvest. Leafcutter ants have already found out long ago.

>>11829446
SN9001

>>11830153
The inflatable habs have a central rod that houses pressure tanks and shit that'll hold the air necessary to inflate the habitat. Maybe gravity might be an issue as you say, but I imagine that problem can be mitigated by inflating in midair before being laid into trenches via cranes.

>>11830159
While it's probably remarkable in zero G or microgravity, I wouldn't exactly like camping inside a 5 ton tent held up by air and willpower on a planet with actual gravity.

>>11830153
>>11830159
>>11830170
Sorry, I misread and assumed you thought the inflatables couldn't inflate without outside sources or something. You are right about that problem. I do imagine they could be inflated, then buried vertically with one of the ends serving as a surface trapdoor. That central spire could definitely serve as the spine of the habitat.
>pic somewhat related

>>11830170
>5 ton tent held up by air and willpower
I'm not even here to shill inflatables but I have no idea what you're whining about. 1atm of internal pressure will make an inflatable harder than a priest in sunday school in mars gravity and pressure. You could make decent structural members just by internal pressure. The biggest problem would be lack of near term ISRU plans.

>>11830126
That and its structurally stronger

>>11829352
The forbidden jelly

>>11829920
Why dig that deep on Mars when you've got plenty of horizontal space?
>>11829902
Proontfag is why /sfg/ threads are barely lasting 24 hours, now that we've finally gotten over the Dragon 2 tourists. Same fucking pictures, EVERY fucking thread. General threads aren't for dropping all the same pictures and forced memes every fucking time a new one starts.
>>11830100
Where's Waldog?
>>11830159
Just put the ends up on concrete towers before hitting the gas. Or make a trench for it to fit in, with the ends on little foundations on either end of the trench.

The SN7 tank failed at 7.6 bar, but what was the intended operational pressure? More? Less?

>>11830117
>Proonters should instead extrude intricate brick shapes and stuff to decorate boring looking habitats and pieces to make simple storage buildings.
that woulbe a complete waste of time. The reason that shape works is because of ease for the printer and structural integrity. There were other designs proposed too but the plug looking one was the most recent winner.

>>11830217
>Where's Waldog?
Look for the yellow thing on the concrete pad.

>>11830176
Well shit, I may have actually solved the initial habitat issue entirely. Just have starships pop open with "bigelows" (i know Dr. Bigelow's company ended up getting dosed by coronachan, RIP) and have cranes just plop some plump habs into holes before burying. Mr. Proonter and his friends can also commence their mating dances because the proonter bots could be used to produce protective tents and shit to protect the metallic docking port serving as the trapdoor.

>>11830220
Last one or the one from today? Did elon post update?

>>11829352

>>11830231
There was another test today? Last test then I guess.

>>11830246
They already have enough pressure to handle non human missions. The one few hours ago hasn't been confirmed yet. The target for human is 8.4 or something.

>>11830246
>There was another test today?
Did you look at the webm OP posted? At the top of this very thread?

>>11830151
Barely anyone in these threads advocates for greenhouses because they are stupid. Vertical farming leaf greens is simple and easy for salad type stuff, if you want proteins then the most energy efficient way is big clear tubes/bags that sit on the surface and grow algae since algae doesn't give a fuck about reduced sunlight so it's essentially zero energy input. Take your algae and feed it to fish and crustaceans, possibly they could even live in the tubes/bags on the surface and graze directly since they don't live long a ough for the radiation to be an issue. You now have a fully balanced diet with fairly simple technology. You could also go for mushrooms too, very little energy required, very simple to grow and harvest. Next step is chickens, they could eat pressed algae pellets along with being food scrap disposal units, you get free eggs on the regular and then a tasty KFC treat at the end. That's probably where it will end for some time until habitat technology has advanced sufficiently to allow for larger herbivores. A colony could definitely produce its own food so long as the infrastructure is set up.

>>11830217
>General threads aren't for dropping all the same pictures and forced memes every fucking time a new one starts.
Literally what the general has been long before the proonting

>>11830272
Not even close to this except for a few occasions, fuck off proontfag.

>>11830269
And if all else fails, a specialized fungus could easily serve as an auxiliary food source. Like leafcutter ants, we could simply breed a fungus that can practically consume any organic detritus and convert it all into a sort of superfood.

>>11830276
not really, space doesn't move fast.

>>11830288
Fuck off dragon 2 newfag you redditor cunts glow fresh out of fucking chernobyl.

Bros I want to design and build space cruiseliners.
What’s a good field to get started with that, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, maybe both? Or something else like engineering physics?

>>11830291
Try harder newfag

>>11830269
>>11830284
They’ve bred a bacteria that eats methane into a cheap animal food for decades
Siphon off a bit from your refueling station and shit digester to that, use it to feed for crustaceans/fish/mirelurks that you grow for your aquaponics set and put it on your toast
It apparently tastes like a bland vegimite

>>11830317
Interesting, wonder what the overall efficiency of it would be though, seems like you would lose a lot of energy that way rather than passive surface bags/tubes.

>>11829616
>>11829644
>>11829678
>>11829723
>>11829756
Poor little Murray
Launched to Mars in a Hurry
With no plans of living, indeed
“I’ve got it!” he said
With an idea in his head
“A printer is all that I need!”
Well when Murray touched down
He was met with a frown
As the diggers were taking the lead
And it was not soon after
When the frowns turned to laughter
And his house fell apart with great speed

>>11830321
based

Alright original printfag here, i will never post printing material again if we can have a serious non inflammatory discussion about martian structural infrastructure.

cool. oldspace BTFO yet again

>>11830329
Sure, the first step to discuss is how to protect your colony from hard radiation. A thin wall of polymer concrete is insufficient.

>>11830321
Hello, based department?

>>11830344
However a thick layer of polymer concrete would be, also since you can forecast radiation events you could have a shelter or have sleeping quarters in the ground

>>11830332
>inb4 Bob and Doug roast alive on reentry

>>11830356
Yes and now it's gone from a simple thin wall egg to needing metres of shielding like every other habitat, wonder how much the print time has increased by. GCRs are not dependant on the sun, it's in the name, although sun activity does increase this type of radiation.

>sleeping quarters in the ground

So now you need all the other infrastructure that everyone else has already been suggesting on top of all the printing infrastructure.

>>11830319
It’s pretty effective since one species is 52% protein and 36% fat
https://phys.org/news/2018-01-microbes-astronauts-human-food.html

>>11830365
>simple thin wall egg to needing metres
The point of the polymer is to not need meters
>So now you need all the other infrastructure that everyone else has
No the cargo starships have shielding for radiation, so you see a rad spike coming you leave the hab and take shelter in the old starship then when its over you go back to your house

>Dig out space from ground
>Machine makes concrete culverts from regolith
>Stack and concrete glue culverts into base
>Living quarters and life support unnaground
>Industry and depots on ground level
>Aerospace traffic control windowed rec room and experimental conservatory up above
Nothing super fancy needed

>>11830385
>The point of the polymer is to not need meters

And when you post a source with actual data and tests we can have a discussion about that.

>>11829577
Quiet you. Artemis is best girl.

>https://youtu.be/axnuLepJufs
For those of you who want to see the print in action

>>11830269
>greenhouses are Stupid
>just grow fish on the surface in an aquarium

Jfc

>>11830410
Yes you imbecile and if you don't understand why then fuck off back to school.

>>11830385
>The point of the polymer is to not need meters
You need meters worth of literally any material. GCRs consist of ultra high energy, heavy, fully ionized atomic nuclei, for example iron nuclei moving at more than half of light speed or more. They do not stop easily, and as they are brought to a stop via collisions the interactions with matter that occur create showers of secondary radiation that also must be stopped. In some cases (such as high energy electrons) the secondary radiation can actually be more of a problem than the primary.

>>11830396
>https://www.scientific.net/AMR.1129.131
>https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.osti.gov/etdeweb/servlets/purl/20078269&ved=2ahUKEwipjYzMopnqAhW_j3IEHSZDDIYQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3dloFsVnIC-lrn32RjdZ9M

>>11829402
It's a handy source of all the various fucky trace elements humans need to live if you chuck them in a reprocessor instead of burning them.

>find Robert Zubrin and Jeff Greason (the plasma sail guy) on Twatter because I want to ask them questions
>Zubrin is a huge lefty retard
Social media was a mistake.

>>11830430
>the first paper
>The final conclusion is that epoxy resin is an efficient additive for neutron shielding concretes improving its ability to protect mainly against low energy neutrons

Wow, its fucking nothing

>the second paper
>nuclear waste containers

Not even remotely the same application or radiation regime.

>>11830407
PROOOOOOOOONT

>>11830446
Yeah I hate that shit. Why are so many sci people left wing, is it because they are pop-sci? Scott Manley is pretty fucking passive aggressive with his political tweets, but people like Mr. Reddit aka Hank Green will reply to POTUS and say shit like “fuck you” and get thousands of likes. It’s all so tiresome.

>>11830467
It's because they spend over a decade in academia and assume that rabid campus Communism is normal.

>>11830467
Elon Musk is non conformist, who only tweets popular stuff for streetcred.

>>11830455
>Wow, its fucking nothing
Sure thing bud

>>11830467
>>11830470
It's all jewish subversion. Remember that America was actually landing on the moon when college propaganda was AGAINST communism.

>>11830470
Most likely the correct answer. What is their end game though, to have Biden in office and see Artemis/Mars funding cut? Trump might want Artemis for his own ego, but we will still be going to the Moon. Also daily reminder that astronaut Jack Schmitt, the Apollo geologist astronaut, was/is a big republican- and even left the Planetary Society because he fucking hates Bill Nye and saw how Nye was politicizing everything and turning it into a shitty climate change organization, at least Schmitt is based but he’ll he dead soon

>>11830480
There's no "end game" for them. It's a religion disguised as politics.

>>11830455
>The final conclusion is that epoxy resin is an efficient additive for neutron shielding concretes improving its ability to protect mainly against low energy neutrons
So you only read the abstract? Why should i care about you opinion again?

>>11830474
Low energy neutrons are not GCRs or even relevant in any way to dumb FUCK

>>11830332
galactic if affirmative
>>11830439
worth their weight in phosphorus

>>11830332
If a Crew Dragon can be refurbished in under 50 days the Shuttle is officially surpassed on everything but cool factor.

>>11830482
I'm not going to pay 36 euros to read some meme paper when the abstract is as laughable as that.

>>11830269
It's all the same. Those are all just ideas without any numbers to back them up. You might as well just post some shitty CGI. I suspect next you're going to tell me to just look this stuff up rather than providing any numbers to demonstrate that these are feasible at all.
>>salad type stuff
provides basically no calories.

>>11830483
>reading one sentence and thinking its the entire journal.
Wow i wonder who the dumb one is

>>11830489
>36 euros
>euros
Kek you also aren't going to space.

>>11830488
>cool factor
Put flame-decals on the sides, Shuttle never had flames. Well, not cool ones at least.

>>11830385
>you see a rad spike coming you leave the hab and take shelter
As opposed to just not giving a single fuck and going about your business like usual because your whole habitat is already safely covered under several meters of soil

>>11830492
>>11830482
You understand the function of an abstract right? If this material was anything like being claimed the abstract would look like this

>Here is my submission for a nobel prize for the discovery of a previously unknown wonder material that is capable of totally stopping even the most harsh intergalactic rays with 300mm of less of material

>>11830494
Hahaha yes! The proonting rises!

>>11830506
one is a quality of life improvement, the other is dismal living.

>>11830514
>>11830494
Wow so this is the power of proonting, graphic renders, a non functional trash prototype and ad hominem attacks.

>>11830513
Samefag, but ill entertain it. The abstract will state the goals and final conclusion but it leaves out the meat of the experiment.

>>11830518
Fuck off already your arguments are bunk bullshit and you still can't source your radiation claims because you are full of shit.

>>11830489
>What is scihub

>>11830519
As opposed to what? A lack of renders, plans or even statements, while having far more ad hominem.

>>11830521
The conclusion being that the additive "improves" its ability to "mainly" shield against a particle type which we don't care about and is vastly less energetic than the ones we are concerned about. So yes, I don't think I'll bother going to go look for a pirated version of the paper.

>this kills the proontfag

>>11830522
if you think mental health isn't going to be the hardest challenge mars has to offer you are retarded.

>>11830518
This shit always comes back to the same fucking place. You just think that anyone not living in a printed structure can't have windows and not having windows is some sort of doom to depression spiral. Both are fucking ridiculous.

>>11830536
Ah yes and the difference between direct windows and large periscope windows is surely such a huge difference. Knowing you are getting fried by radiation in return for your direct windows will help their mental health no end I'm sure.

>>11830529
>says the person who hasn't read it.

>>11830536
Yeah, but how do you deal with it?

I'm thinking a combination of a lot of people, a lot of space, and mild to moderate amounts of porn.

>>11830541
Neither have you

>>11830539
you have yet to provide a convincing plan for a habitat that offers that anon.

>>11830545
Your plan is full of holes and not convincing either. The one shitpost drawing of assembling steel tubes and burying them is infinitely superior to your buttplug trash.

>>11830545
http://bigidea.nianet.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ICES-2005-2846-Clawson-et-al.pdf

Not that guy, but here.

>>11830536
>do mandatory 10 meditation daily
>0 mental health issues
NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT!! YOU NEED TO SPEND 100 BILLION 100 YEARS IN AND BUY MENTAL HEALTH INSURANCE TO PAY FOR $1000 TRILLION DRUGS

>>11830467
Scott keeps political shit out of his youtune channel tho. He can write anything he wants on his twitter as long as it doesn't impact his videos imo.

>>11830545
Any form of buried structure can just have second floors with windows. Any of them can have skylights and piped fibre optic lighting. Any of them can have mspaintanon's periscope-style windows. Your buttplug doesn't have the sole advantage of the use of the surface, it's just stuck there because of the nature of additive manufacture.

>>11830498
the super dracos are sorta like flames on the side

>>11830554
Do you want a self sustained colony or a nasa mission?

trips and the ariane 5 carrying JWST will explode

>>11830573
Dub and Starship wil explode on first mission launch

>>11830573
How can it explode if it never launches?

So in the name of a proper discussion I checked out that paper to stop you retards screching, much like that anon suggested the entire thing is talking about neutron radiation, I have attached a table from the paper as an example. This paper is not really what we are looking for because high energy atomic nucleii are the issue.

I’m baffled as to how there’s genuine angry arguments about what sort of habitat people would live in on Mars. Can’t we just appreciate how fucking awesome it is that people will go to Mars? They’ll figure out what to put people in somehow.

>>11830578
You can go to reddit or any number of popsci channels for that.

>>11830578
they'll never get there if they insist on overengineering every simple thing just because.

>>11830578
I like the printing research nasa is doing and yet even the first time i posted it i was met with autistic vitriol because it wasn't a backhoe

>>11830589
C’mon, isn’t it obvious SpaceX will just have people sleep in the Starship?

>>11830595
No we have to send starships pull of plastic concrete to print buttplugs instead

>>11830590
Because it's obviously a shit idea. If it was for example, directly sintering raw regolith into metres thick walls you might have a seller.

>>11830498
>flame-decals
Ground landing with those engines burning would be cooler than decals.

>>11830446
Zubrin is definitely not a lefty, he rants about socialists and environmentalists all the time and has talked about how he wants a new party focused on liberty. He does hate Trump though so I can see how you might get that impression.

>>11830577
Interesting, however that and the chink paper hes posting is showing some level of radiation shielding, which means that we should look into the material science for high energy nuclei

>>11830610
What’s Trump trigger him for?

>"3D printed surface habitats? No way, they didn't really think that'd work, did they? You're pullin' my leg"

>>11830613
It's the logical conclusion of putting high atomic mass plastics into concrete sure, but there is no path for thin walled structures shielding against cosmic rays.

>>11830623
Shoot down the cosmic rays

>>11830555
Very nice but greenhouse?

>>11830610
>he wants a new party focused on liberty
... libertarians?
Political parties should almost be illegal though, really. I hate the two party system so god damned much.

>>11830632
It’s less dumb than it sounds, because the Democrat and Republican parties are big tent parties that contain subgroups. If Zubrin really is a libertarian then I’d agree with him

>>11830560
>>11830608
Solid point, do you anons think we're likely to see a ground landing of a crewed Dragon? NASA already shat on the idea and said 'no' didn't they? Doesn't rule out private customers though I suppose.

>>11830321

>>11830630
Connect the greenhouses to the tunnels.

Bam, you have a system that has natural sunlight and can grow crops easily, but also has adequate radiation shielding and is relatively cheap and easy to expand.

>>11830632
Two party politics is inevitable in any system where only one candidate can win the election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law

How much would it cost to build a space station like the ISS post-Starship?
I figure that the primary cost wouldn't be launch costs, but instead the cost of the modules.

>>11830638
I mean, the current form of the party system would not survive the emergence of a third party that had anywhere close to proportional support from the voters. As soon as the libertarians or anyone else had a real foothold, the main two would splinter. It'd be beautiful.

>>11830649
Growing crops in martian sunlight is not going to be simple. You can't put earth crops in less than half the natural sunlight and with double length season and expect everything to work. LED gang master race.

>>11830657
Genetic engineering and/or supplemental lighting.

>>11830657
Definitely, you're gonna need to replicate what the plants expect, way before any adaptation/modification occurs.

nuke mars and throw algae and cockroaches on it

>>11830651
I'd say that modern democracy hasn't been around long enough to actually make that call.
I think (hope) that it's just as inevitable for there to eventually be a groundswell of retaliation against the corruption inherent to a two-party system.

How deep would a pit on Mars need to be for atmospheric pressure to reach tolerable levels?

>>11830540
Its the difference between a passive and active activity which is actually a large issue

>>11830672
Nuke Venus' atmosphere and blow off chunks of it 'til it chills the fuck out and quits melting lead on the surface. Fucking Venus.

>>11830673
Even Rome had a two-party system, actually.

>>11830678
what does that even mean

>>11830680
Based venus

>>11830673
Just introduce proportional representation lmao.

Bam, you got five or six big parties.

>>11830684
Yeah then it became a dictatorship

>>11830688
Proportional representational is even worse, my country has it and it's fucking dreadful. The smaller parties are still corrupt, don't represent the values they claim and cuck to the big two parties to get power.

>>11830693
It was pretty good for the first two dictators desu, unless your ass showed up on a prescription list

>>11830695
I didn't say it'd give you good government, I just said it'd mean more than two parties.

Out of curiosity, what country?

>>11830632
I misremembered slightly, he wants a new Liberal (read: classical liberal) party. An article he wrote about it: https://reason.com/2017/03/04/america-needs-a-liberal-party/

>>11830590
>even the first time i posted it i was met with autistic vitriol because it wasn't a backhoe
It's because you (and maybe another proontfag too) forced the meme way too hard.
And it's basically a shitty idea, because the whole point if proonting is to not have to ship a bunch of snowflake plastic to Mars, just basic binding agents like cement. So you still have to dig to get the material, then make it into marscrete in sub-freezing temperatures with almost no atmosphere, which means you can't just dump some powder and sand into a bucket with some water. It needs a lot more R&D, maybe 2030 after we've been there a few synods.
Digging doesn't require you to mix shit and keep it from freezing/drying too fast. You just dig trenches and bulldoze piles of dirt.

>>11830610
So a lolbertarian?
>>11830614
Never-Trumpers are still a thing. There are too many country-club Republicans can't handle "uncouth" people, and are often the same ones who are the first to placate the latest Democrat whining by giving in completely.

>>11830639
I'm not sure if the "fix" for the boom-boom makes the super dracos not reusable, so they would have to come up with something better than a burst valve, as well as simply testing the fuck out of it.

FUCK VENUS
FUCK VENUS
FUCK VENUS

>>11830700
Some of the Roman emperors were pretty great, and dictatorships with good dictators have the potential to be better than democracies, but as a system it’s ultimately undesirable because there’s no way to guarantee the ruler can be qualified and you can’t get them out without a rebellion.

>>11830710
based

>>11830705
NZfag. It's worse because it gives you the illusion of choice when it reality it's the same two big power brokers and functions essentially the same as the two party system.

>>11829135
> i'm gonnnna stakkkkkkk

>>11830710
based

>>11830685
If you have to make an active decision to see outside a window it means your environment is going to be more taxing on your mind than if you can see out of windows during normal activity.

>>11830715
AI direct theocracy when?

>>11830623
>putting high atomic mass plastics into concrete sure
Wouldn't this work though?

Pick your poison

>>11830719
A periscope window can be the exact same size and location in relation to your floorspace as a buttplug window, it's literally identical.

>>11830719
I don't see how, my window has been blocked off for years and I've not suffered any significant psychological damage from it.

>>11830725
>itt actual goblin who hides deep beneath the earth

People like sun anon

>>11830723
Unnagroun is fine by me, just go deep and make the interior spaces big to stave off claustrophobia in those weak enough to suffer from it.

>>11830722
That's what they have done and yes, it results in an improvement in shielding, and it could absolutely reduce the amount of shielding needed against cosmic rays but you would still need metres of the stuff.

>>11830719
>active decision
It just sits there. What active decision?

>>11830731
>colonize Mars with this one weird trick! Surface-dwellers HATE this!

>>11830693
Yep, entirely due to the pettiness of bipartisan politics.
The conservative faction wanted to fuck over Caesar in any way they can because he's one of the progressives, so they make some BS excuse for why he has to step down from his current position at the head of Rome's largest army so they can then put him on trial for political crimes.
In other words, giving him three options: Go into hiding, get arrested, or attempt to conquer Rome for himself with his giant highly experienced army of extremely loyal soldiers.

>>11830723
I have other plans.

>>11830731
If your colonists are so fucking fragile that the difference between a periscope window and a normal window, both the same size, causes such mental stress then they shouldn't be sent there in the fucking first place.

>>11830680
>>11830710

>>11830731
There's no such thing as getting direct sunlight on Mars if you don't like skin cancer. Filtered/piped light is the closest you will get and you can get just as much of that with any other method as you will with proont

>>11830744
Take the domepill?

>>11830750
>There's no such thing as getting direct sunlight on Mars if you don't like skin cancer

Just make a recessed window

>>11830754
That's not direct sunlight

>>11830757
Yeah but you can still look outside whenever you want. Ideally I’ll just get my flesh removed so the radiation is no longer a threat.

>>11830761
and you can look outside whenever you want through a periscope window.

>>11830763
I guess yeah.

>>11830763
Or just heading topside with a suit, if you wanna head outside. Shielded viewing decks on the surface wouldn't be that bad either, provided you don't spend all day up there every day and avoid days where there's a flare.

>>11830770
Viewing platforms would absolutely btfo dedicated surface bases because they wouldn't have to compromise for the purposes of fulltime living and thus could relax standards for more viewing area.

Why isn't the Progress more cylindrical? It is more smoother than the Soyuz but still it would make use of internal volume better if it was just a cylinder like the cygnus, atv, htv