/sci/ - Science & Math

Can't wait for Starlink project to fund Starship development.

First for xenogeology

>>11825943
It’s a shame they never went with the Venus flyby wet workshop concept. It was by far the coolest idea that came out of the Apollo applications program.

Can't wait for Starlink to BTFO the great firewall of China and make online censorship basically impossible.

>>11825954
I plan to buy it once it's available

>>11825954
What's that from?

Where my roverbros at?

>>11825961
All that’ll accomplish is having hordes of Chinese nationalists defending their glorious homeland on social media in broken English. It’ll basically be the same thing we see with Indian and Pakistani internet users, but even more belligerently stupid.

am I stupid or is shooting rockets up literally just ballistics?

>>11825969
>Is powered flight ballistics
You may want to look up the definition of ballistics

>>11825954
What are the chances it'll be faster and cheaper than my comcast internet? their pricing schemes have my family trapped paying insane rates for hundreds of TV channels we don't even want. Also if you guys didn't know you can apply to be a beta tester

>>11825968
The Indian BBC spam is already so annoying we don't need billions of screaming chinamen shitposting too

>>11825943
It's been a while /sfg/.
So.
How many things did SpaceX blow up in the last 6 month?

>>>11825914

I’d fuck them as long as they have a hole or manipulator appendage of some sort

>>11825977
not enough

>>11825969
you're stupid.

>>11825967
The rover bros are preparing their replies right now but there's a 40 minute round trip delay, a low bitrate connection and there's some hot debate over keypresses between the shitpost engineers and the shitpost scientists

>>11825977
a bunch which is great because they're probably going to make a 2022 mars cargo mission.

>>11825964
https://droid.cafe/starlink

Current(already launched in orbit) starlink coverage map.

Also another link
>https://starlinkradar.com/livemap.html


>>11825974
I pay $45/m for 75Mbps on Comcast. Only internet. My own used modem that I bought for $10 on ebay. Check your online accout and see if you can change to different package. There's online chat if you want to do it over internet, or phone, or in person. I always check with it everytime my 12-month/24 month contract is up. Then sign up for something similar.

Faster/cheaper depends on packages and availability. If you got comcast, chances are Starlink's effectiveness in your area is limited.

>>11825967
Absolutely useless technology.
Imagine if a scientist on Mars had 20 minute delay between thought and action.

>>11825987
Yeah, I saw it mentioned on the news. Been busy.
I understand it's just prototypes, though?

>>11825990
I actually live in a pretty rural area, and comcast is the only provider with speeds high enough to play games on. I'll check that out and see if I can't wiggle out of this contract, as I gave up in frustration a while back. They basically told us if we dropped our cable package the internet rate would almost double, so we'd end up paying more for just internet. Idk what things are like now though

>>11825991
Its testing the moxie life support system and testing a new spot on mars. It will literally be beneficial to the first manned mission to mars.

>>11825994
Obviously, thats how development works.

>>11825991
Same poster, but imagine an actual geologist on Mars.
Just one.
For an Hour.
How much rover science do you think he would get?
>>11826002
Yeah, we know it can be done because chemistry.

>>11826002
The moxie meme is big nothing, overpriced, overcomplicated, and dependent on NASA which means it will be always be at least a decade behind in scale. Mars has even more water than it does CO2 and two electrodes scales much better than a box of magic.

>>11826005
Well, that's not how the space industry usually works.

>>11826008
Concept and practice are 2 different things anon. Its launching in a few weeks, thats better than nothing

>>11825973
>>11825983
you didn't answer

>>11825954
Animated

>>11826012
true but that is why the space industry is garbage.

>>11826020
any plans for orbits to cover the poles? I imagine the US military would want that if they're really interested

>>11826019
The answer is no

>>11826019
you are stupid and it's not ballistics. What's the problem?

>>11826024
Yeah, they'll add pole coverage later on. Right now, the big money is on mainland coverage.

>>11826016
What if it says it doesn't work? Do we take its robot words for it when chemistry tells us it should?

>>11826020
Neat, I see the train I spotted a couple weeks ago in the night sky. Why aren't those sats adjusting their orbits to fall into position in the network yet?

>>11826010
i can't see a reason why it wouldn't be shared with spacex

>>11826030
They are. It takes a while.

>>11826029
Yes? Just because the chemistry is there doesn't mean the engineering is. Are you retarded or do you just not understand how normal R&D works?

>>11826031
I don't see a reason why SpaceX would use it. They need to split a shitton of water for their mission profile anyway, life support will be a rounding error for them.

>>11826025
>>11826026
The problem is, one inbred nigger mentioned powered flight, which has fuckall to do with rocketry and another didn't even get that far.

>>11826041
Come on, splitting CO2 is not magic.
I'm affraid they'll use their failure of a robot to prevent humans from landing there.

>>11826047
Rocketry is powered flight.

>>11826058
No it's not, get the fuck out of here.

>>11826054
>Come on, splitting CO2 is not magic.
no one said it was, sustainable life support systems need to be researched.

>>11826061
Yes it is,

>>11825943

>>11826061
Not him but rockets do fly, frequently under their own power.

>>11826063
I don't think even SpaceX has plans for a sustainable base right now.
First missions are gonna be people just being there.

>>11826069

>>11826024
FCC mandated full Alaska coverage so it gets pretty close.

>>11826072
>I don't think even SpaceX has plans for a sustainable base right now.
Why do you think that? That was his starting goal, he probably put a lot of thought into it

>>11826020
rural canada wave 1 lets gooooooo. only current option to my cabin is $120/m at bell for 15mib and 60gib cap

>>11826061
>entire boost phase of orbital rocket flight is conducted under power
>aerodynamic forces dictate vehicle performance for a major portion of the ascent
>somehow not powered flight

>>11826080
I think that because he never mentioned anything besides his rocketry.
I think he's planing on third parties to use his shuttle to mars service and figure it out.

>>11826063
>muh sustainable
There's nothing that makes CO2 a more "sustainable" source of oxygen than water or minerals. Between those three primary sources CO2 accounts for the least of Mars' oxygen mass and the most expensive and resource intensive gathering method.

I hope starlink hardware is reasonably priced. I want 2 sets. So I can have good internet at both my work locations.

I just fear video streaming will bog it down.

>>11826098
You a camgirl?

>>11826098
Depends on your streaming bit rate. If you're streaming 6-10 Mbps, it would probably be fine. If you're doing 20-60 Mbps, that would put a huge strain on bandwidth.

>>11826084
Relying on 3rd parties won't get a colony started unless SpaceX is bankrolling them. Elon has a certain vision for the future and i doubt he will let the finished project be handled by someone else, it is his legacy after all.

>>11826117
>camgirls in space
imagine

>>11826126
imagine how much longer boobs would stay perky growing up in Moon or Mars gravity

>>11826126
Disgusting degeneracy.

>>11826002
>moxie life support system
Let's hope that it is something useful rather than just another dongle to make it look like NASA is doing work.

>>11826088
Water is not going to be used for life support as it will be needed for propellant and construction material production. CO2 conversion is easier than producing oxygen out of minerals. But what do i know I'm just agreeing with experts in the field.

>>11826133
Its what they plan to use for artemis bases so I'd assume its useful

>>11826148
>Hey should we ensure that a spare %.1 of our oxygen production is available for life support
>No, NASA man told us to pay for this 300 million dollar nuclear powered box and somehow we decided that made more sense

>>11826088
How the fuck would taking CO2 out of the air be more expensive than gathering fucking minerals? How retarded are you?

>>11826126
>watching camwhore stream
>hack her station
>blow the airlock and shoot her into space
>tfw reading the chat's reactions

>>11826174
They'd probably just spam the poggers emoji.

>>11826157
>.1%
Yeah fucking right, also atmospheric life support systems are better tech because they can be used in more applications than just mars. NASA always eats the R&D costs because that is its purpose.

>>11826165
> How the fuck would taking CO2 out of the air be more expensive than gathering fucking minerals?

It’s a lot faster and more efficient. You could smelt hematite and just use the oxygen for air.

The earth and moon would probably be a wonder to aliens desu. We have a moon that's just about perfect for causing regular solar eclipses, but only just, so we also get annular eclipses too

>>11826165
>it's cheap because CO2 is plentiful
You aren't paying for CO2 retard, you're paying for the autistic cleanlab splitting equipment.

>>11826186
This coincidence has always bothered me. I'm not sure what I mean by that.

>>11826180
>also atmospheric life support systems are better tech because they can be used in more applications than just mars
Are you retarded? There is water basically everywhere in the solar system that's halfway worthwhile. Significant atmospheres accompanying surfaces you can actually walk on basically only occur on Mars, Earth, and Titan, and Titan's atmosphere is mostly nitrogen with some hydrocarbons.

>>11826030
Ion thrusters aren't exactly speedy.

>>11825957
>ywn have a silicon-based space rock gf
Yet i’m still suffering and getting my BS in geology. Life’s rough bros

For an enclosed sea monkey aquarium in space, how could one aerate oxygen into the aquarium without the oxygen forming big bubbles?

pic semi related

>>11826033
>>11826199
How long has it taken previous trains to space themselves out correctly, do they move them one at a time or in batches?

>>11826210
I think it takes weeks for them to get into their proper positions, it all depends exactly on where they're supposed to go.

>>11826207
Maybe stir the water+oxygen through a screen after you aerate it? You'd still get bubbles, but it should reduce their size.

>>11826180
Also
>yeah fucking right
You clearly don't understand the scale involved. The full scale moxie unit that won't exist for ten years absolutely pales in comparison to the output that Starship will take just to feed its tanks. Humans are a rounding error.

>>11826193
The fact the moon appears with a diameter within +- 5% of the sun's as viewed from earth?

>>11826222 (checked)
You mean like an airstone in an aquarium? Or an additional screen on top of that? My fear is that in an aquarium on Earth has an open top so any additional bubbles can just escape which isn't possible in a sealed aquarium in space.

>>11825943
FLUSHED, AND JUST AS I'M ENTERING THE JOB MARKET.
FUCK H1B'S, LETS MAKE THE REST OF TECH AS GREAT AS AMERICAN SPACEFLIGHT.

>President Donald Trump will sign an executive order extending a freeze on green cards and barring most categories of foreign workers through the end of the year, the White House announced Monday.

>The order extends restrictions originally enacted in April due to the coronavirus pandemic, which blocked most people from receiving a permanent residency visa, or green card. The new order also temporarily freezes H1-B visas for highly-skilled workers, a program popular with the U.S. tech industry, and other temporary work visas. It exempts farm workers and live-in childcare providers called au pairs.

>>11826231
Yeah, seems odd. Pretty though.

>>11826251
fuck governments who capitalize on the pandemic to push their agendas. Politicians are scum.

>>11826184
You literally have to gather the minerals and that makes it worse tech

>>11826247
I dunno, I’ve never built an aquarium. There should be a fairly straightforward way to mechanically diffuse large bubbles, though. Maybe look at the designs of similar experiments on the ISS? I’m sure there’s been at least a couple of aquatic environments sent up there before.

>>11826266
Yeah burning a few rocks is so hard.

>>11826193
Eventually the moon's orbit will drift outward to the point that it will be unable to make total eclipses.
In the meantime, a few years from now there will be an annular and a total eclipse six months apart, where the paths cross less than 100 miles from here. I expect it to be kino.

>>11826265
Corporations who displace americans to hire worthless H1B pajeets and chinks are scum. ITAR is the only reason SpaceX has been spared.

>>11826187
No its cheap because the gathering process requires nothing, you get oxygen from a fire and forget stationary machine. Any other process takes more equipment and more work. You are retarded

>>11826265
Fuck off communist

>>11826289
Some guy in my state built one of those himself using some lumber and rocks to pivot the big pieces. Moved a barn too just because he could.
Would be pretty cool to see an eclipse from inside a henge. The famous one gets mobbed by tourists every time there's one though, so fuck that one.

>>11826279
>Maybe look at the designs of similar experiments on the ISS? I’m sure there’s been at least a couple of aquatic environments sent up there before.
Found some. Sharing for anyone who likes a nice read. Some of them seem to be behind a paywall though.

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/news/aquatic.html
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12530375/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273117702003988
https://iss.jaxa.jp/en/kiboexp/pm/aqh/

>>11826197
Water gathering is more difficult than pulling from the atmosphere and will require more machinery, it also makes you geographically locked to places with an abundant water supply. Technology that pulls oxygen out of the air has more applications because of what i said above and that is why NASA is pursuing it.

>>11826318
>it also makes you geographically locked to places with an abundant water supply

Those are the only places people will live anyway; so.

>>11826223
>that won't exist for ten years
Baseless speculation

>>11826326
No it really is not

>>11826300
For the cost of one machine you could send all the harvesting equipment you could ever want on Starships. In the time to wait for just enough Moxie machines to supply a 100 person base, you could have multiple fed by electrolysis already on the surface. Muh fucking fire and forget.
>>11826318
>makes you geographically locked to places with an abundant water supply
You may not be aware of this but colonists need water wherever they are.
If for some reason your dumb ass makes a colony on Mars somewhere that lacks useful quantities of water ice, I'm sure someone is willing to send you their ice by rail, hopefully at an appropriately marked up price.

>>11826333
You're right, it's wildly optimistic.

>>11826283
how are you going to gather them? How much energy will you need to burn them? What are you going to do with the waste? Seems a lot more complicated and vulnerable than a fucking box that just needs to exist in atmosphere.

>>11826342
>everything is oldspace
K

>>11826350
>oldspace is oldspace
Yes

>>11826337
>but colonists need water wherever they are.
Do you think space habitation is only going to be colonies? Also water is necessary for so many applications, there will be colonies that have a less abundant water supply but have reasons to be there. Technology that scrubs the air, for oxygen gives us more versatility and less dependence on water.

>>11826335
People need water idiot.

>>11826360
You don't even understand what oldspace means

>>11826347
>What is mining

> Seems a lot more complicated and vulnerable than a fucking box that just needs to exist in atmosphere.

If only that box wasn’t a bajillion dollars and slow as hell

>>11825961
There's a couple of reasons why this won't happen in China and similar countries:

- they will ban user terminals (afaik Russia already did) so you would have to smuggle them across the border which, considering how big they are, would be problematic and not something an average person will do

- Starlink can't just break the law and provide service to countries where it's explicitly banned. Too many repercussions for USA and SpaceX.

- Paying for Starink as a citizen of a country where it's banned and where SpaceX doesn't have a legal presence is probably gonna be impossible.

>>11826376
WHAT REALLY? NO WAY!

>>11825969
No, but 99.999999% of actual spaceflight (ie going from one place to another) is actually just ballistics.

>>11826385
>a bajillion dollars and slow as hell
you are basing that on what?

What’s the easiest process for obtaining Oxygen, and Methane?
For the atmosphere, you can split CO2 and use the oxygen, but where does the hydrogen come from for the Methane?

>>11826372
>Do you think space habitation is only going to be colonies?
what did he mean by this
>water is necessary so people will go as far away from it as possible
>therefore we need tech that will make this possible
Sure. In a hundred years or so, this will sort of apply.
As a backup. Because everyone else will already have mining operations and it will be cheaper at that point to just ship ice, which Mars has a couple orders of magnitude more of, than use expensive machines to split CO2.

>>11826337
>For the cost of one machine
Are you from the future? What is the cost of the machine?

>>11826393
>>11826410
I'm gonna say it.

I'm gonna say the N word.


NASA

>>11826386
it's already pretty easy to bypass the great firewall anyway, from what i have read before on 4chan.

>>11826386
>Starlink can't just break the law and provide service to countries where it's explicitly banned. Too many repercussions for USA and SpaceX.
No way to enforce it and for US going around firewall would be beneficial to destabilize the chinks.Also you could anonymously pay with crypto for it and you need to smuggle terminal in just like in the cold war and radio free europe

>>11826128
>60+ year olds that are attractive to the majority of the population
This will be a major paradigm shift and will have more important ramifications than anything to come from trans fags
>Are you a millionaire? Do you want to live on Earth and start turning ugly by 40 if you're male and lucky or would your rather live in space and guarantee your attractiveness until you're 65?

>>11826431
>No way to enforce it
As both you and he already pointed out the terminals are a physical thing that would have to be smuggled in, so that's a pretty easy way to enforce it.

As for enforcement at SpaceX's level, SpaceX would absolutely not risk actually providing support for banned terminals even if they're smuggled in. If nothing else, Musk has good will and a growing presence in China and isn't going to risk it.

>>11826210
Weeks, and all at once, not in batches.

>>11826408
>expensive machines
Just make a cheaper machine, duh.
MOXIE is expensive because of NASA autism.
SpaceX could build a CO2 pyrolysis machine in a day out of a pump and a welder. Sure, yo may need to replace a filter by hand or fix a pipe after 2000 hours of operation, but so what, they'll have people on Mars for a reason beyond just labeling rock samples and leaving.

>>11826408
>what did he mean by this
Mining outposts, research bases, military installations, shipyards, exploration missions, observation facilities transportation stations, anything really. We can recycle water for personal use like we do on the ISS and we could carry enough fuel for return trips if we need to. I don't believe moxie will cost much once developed and they could be used en masse pretty easily

>>11826476
Moxie is a terrible idea that requires a shitload of power to scale it up 100-fold. SpaceX will probably just produce it’s own sabatier reactor designed from the ground up

>>11826421
NASA does fine with projects that aren't rockets

>>11826468
If SpaceX independently develops a cheap CO2 splitter that may see some use. We'll see if they actually do that, though. As I've said there's no particular reason to as their mission profile requires splitting enough water that supplying life support would be an afterthought. Cooking minerals also isn't any harder and brings the side benefit of all of those resources.

>>11826496
You think that right now because they basically have no competition. NASA is wildly inefficient at absolutely everything, and when the price to orbit drops significantly that reality will be plain to see.

>>11826491
>that requires a shitload of power to scale it up 100-fold.
And you are basing that on what?

>>11826520
his harry prolapsed asshole

real modular space station hours

>>11826530
Looks like a borg cube still under construction.

>>11826520
CO2 splitting is like 5 times less efficient than high temp electrolysis. NASA want a dedicated RTG for their 'scale' prototype, which fucking stupid, and it still wouldn't supply a decent base.

>>11826541
Why an RTG when they already know plutonium Stirling generators are three times as efficient?Q

>>11826541
>emerging technology is less efficient
Wow I am in awe at your retardation.

>>11826608
If it's "emerging technology" why not wait until it's mature to shill it and recognize that alternatives are more viable in the near term

>>11826516
I guarantee you that NASA will share the moxie research to help spacex

>>11826619
because we are 4 years from a manned mission which is plenty of time to flesh out the tech

>>11826516
Spacex will have to indecently develop everything, every piece of machinery they need is filled with government bureaucratic autism

>>11826496
All nasa projects are absurdly priced sine they are built around 300 million dollars,to launch cost

>>11826639
>All nasa projects are absurdly priced sine they are built around 300 million dollars
yeah thats not how it works

>>11826496
>>11826517
>>11826639
NASA has a fairly high success rate.
They don't take risks, and they shouldn't. If they took risks they'd fail more often which will lead to the public wanting to cut funding.
Play it safe, it's smart.

>>11826639
>Spacex will have to indecently develop everything, every piece of machinery they need is filled with government bureaucratic autism
absolutely
and that's why >>11826633 is irrelevant
"hey spacex we're willing to share out autistic cleanroom garbage with you"
sure, thanks. put it in the back with falcon 5

>>11826635
4 years if SpaceX was developing it is a lot of time, but SpaceX isn't pursuing anything like that. 4 years for NASA to develop something isn't even enough time to finish the boardroom meetings to decide the revised acronym.

>>11826641
That is exactly how you decide budgets when you have fixed costs

>>11826454
>As both you and he already pointed out the terminals are a physical thing that would have to be smuggled in, so that's a pretty easy way to enforce it.
It also doesn't work very well if there's no ground station within a certain distance.

>>11826661
Lmao I don’t know the exact story verbatim, but it goes something like this:
>Some people from NASA visited the SpaceX facility to take part in a meeting to see the the design process for their rockets. They were astounded to see all the engineers/Elon discuss different materials, and choose one in one meeting
NASA literally takes 5 years to make decisions. Part of it is because of the bureaucracy and politics, but it’s also because they are used to moving at a fucking snail’s pace

>>11826530

>>11826454
>Musk has good will and a growing presence in China and isn't going to risk it.
He will have to support unrestricted terminals at least for military customers. The only question is how long it's going to take the glow ponies to sneak one in.

>>11826652
Moonship versus the rest of Artemis is the perfect example of this.

>>11826516
>We'll see if they actually do that, though
Dude, I can count on two hands or less the number of moving parts you'd actually need in a machine that could filter, compress, separate, and store CO2, split that CO2 into CO and O2 via catalytic electrolysis, and store both products.
Anything electrical or solid state you just make ten times beefier than it needs to be, and bring a few spare parts just in case.

>>11826548
They haven't developed a space-rated sterling engine yet, because they decided to defund the ones they were developing years ago.

>>11826652
>source my ass
Research into technology doesn't just disappear if you go with a design.

>>11826672
No it really isn't

>>11826661
>>11826687
NASA isn't just rocket development, their science projects are actually very good

>>11826713
They'd still need a reason. No one has any good reason not to rely on faster, more efficient electrolysis which they're going to be doing anyway.

>>11826687
It was a guy who used to work at NASA and got a job at SpaceX. They were deciding whether they would pay a contractor to produce their heat shield material, or if they'd move production in house.
They were doing a round table discussion (the NASA guy thought they were just brainstorming) and when the discussion came to him he said that bringing the production in-house would offer a lot more flexibility and control over the material parameters and let them make changes quickly. Elon listened to this and said "okay we'll do that" and the meeting ended. Dude's mind was blown because he expected the meeting to just be a precursor to more meetings with charts and studies etc but that was it, decision made, time to go to work.
Later, Elon showed him the building he bought to put the heat shield factory in, and told the NASA guy they'd be in in six months. Dude thought no way, maybe a year if they pushed it hard, but 6 months later they were making PICA-X in that building, while drywall was still going up because it was faster to bring the machinery in as soon as the electrical was ready rather than wait for all the furnishings to be completed.

>>11826072
Most mission profiles have over a year spent on Mars waiting for a return window, even the high energy transfers are still 6 months on the surface. At this point you may as well start building a base and should probably have most materials ready before arrival anyway.

>>11826693
The big ventilation tubes on the space pirate frigate in Prime 1 were the best, also I like their pants-on-head retarded ventilation pump (high bypass 8 foot wide piston abrading the shit out of the wall and floors lmao).

>>11826726
I'm arguing for the point that MOXIE is not important or really complex or groundbreaking enough to deserve any NASA footwork. It's literally a CO2 acquisition pump, a mixed product separation system, and an electrical resistance catalysis chamber. Not difficult, doesn't tell us anything we don't already know, definitely bumped a few kilograms of science payload off of the rover, overall fantastic waste of time and money.

>>11826729
>and should probably have most materials ready before arrival anyway.
Which is where the prooonting meme has merit

>>11826395
It comes from water, split with electrolysis.
Full process in pic related

>>11826728
Elon is the fucking man, his work ethic is autistic but admirable

>>11826738
>Not difficult
says the random anon on a Mongolian throat singing forum

Does every privately funded smallsat have to be a cubesat for ride-shares? Or is there flexibility in the shape of the satellite?

>>11826742
That's not the sabatier reaction. The sabatier reaction is CO2 + 4H2 -> CH4 + 2H2O

>>11826755
You might want to read the chart again, that's what it shows. This is the full fuel ISRU process, not just sabatier

>>11826759
Ok, I'll stop reading charts late at night then.

>>11826750
Spacex stadard rideshare uses adaptors bigger than cubesats, so no

>>11826741
I meant a full starship safely landed, you'd want a small modular nuclear reactor, prebuilt habs, fuel production equipment and maybe a little digger.
I'm a sceptic about proonting for habs, it's main advantage is not needing spares for every complex part and instead taking a box full of powdered aluminium.
There's just no way they can pront before humans land anyway, you need to collect the regolith, process it and oversee the machine while it works. Seems far more riskier than just shipping a hab over and surrounding it with regolith.

>>11826779
>There's just no way they can pront before humans land anyway
There is though and thats the plan, also since they have a long time to print it they can go slowly enough to monitor and make corrections with the delay, you don't need to dig if you bring the materials with you for the first few habs. Even with those materials you should be able to have more space than if you ship pre-built habs and that is valuable for the first few missions. The more equipment you can bring the more productive your first visit will be and that first visit is crucial.

>>11826652
>sure, thanks. put it in the back with falcon 5

>>11826802
>thats the plan
SpaceX plans to use their first ships on the Moon as their initial habs there. They haven't specifically said anything about Mars but you can bet that's the frontrunner because it makes the most sense.
It's just not practical at this point to automate the proonting process to the degree of actually producing a worthwhile base. The space and dev time that would go into that dead end is 100% better off going into putting down more practical equipment

>>11826816
Okay well for the Moon that makes sense... but Mars? I would want some habitats launched eventually. Starship is huge, but I wouldn’t want to use it as a home for the rest of my life.
Also how is that going to work with Artemis? NASA is paying “per ton” now... is Elon going to charge them for the entire mass of a lunar starship??

>>11826816
I'm telling you senpai, just dig a tunnel.

Once you get the equipment to do it, you don't have to bring anything else, and you can make as much inhabitable space as you want.

>>11826802
Why bring the materials for printing? It's pointless and a waste of cargo. An inflatable hab can set itself up with minimal hassle and with no problems. If you anything goes wrong with the print at any point you'll have to wait another cycle to get a safe habitat on the surface before arrival.
Everything needs to be in place for human arrival with minimal work required.
Proonting is a dumb experiment to try with habs and potentially dangerous. You can't ensure quality.
No one stuck on the surface for 500 days wants that over a tried and tested hab manufactured on Earth.

Great, the printing retard is back. Abandon thread.

>>11826779
>prebuilt habs
That is the biggest inefficiency with a normal plan which is why i think a printer will be considered. The size of storage is an obvious issue and prebuilt habs take up too much of that.

>>11826750
Cubesats are the cheapest but the "small satellite" category goes all the way up to 100kg.

>>11826836
the burnt out proonter
>thinks any other manufacturing method is a meme
>"yeah, digging trenches is super challenging and dangerous. proonting is much better"
>doesn't realize how complex printing is
>always proonting
>"wh-what's that? additive manufacturing? i'm gonna proooooont ugh!"
>believes a mission with a 3D printer and a trench digger is simpler than a mission with just a trench digger
>has lost the ability to think in abstract manufacturing terms, can only conceptualize the proont
>owns a 3D proonter, uses it so much that it wishes for death

>>11826831
An inflatable hab is still incredibly large when deflated, has to be buried and isn't reusable like a printer. Plus inflatable habs are restricted to the size available in the cargo.

>>11826827
Dig trench and cover is probably easiest, but same shit in the end.

>>11826824
Why would it be between launching habs or using Starships indefinitely? The initial cargo ships make perfect bases for the initial missions. Use them as staging areas and construct the rest in situ.

China is about to complete their Beidou navigation constellation. Launch in 30 minutes (livestreamed for once!)

>>11826855
Inflatables don't have to be very bulky unenflated if you provide structure and shielding for them with local materials. Then they can just be thin bags. I'm not inflatables guy but that's what I'd do, anyway.

>>11826854
>>11826836
>printing can never happen
>ugh printers
>muh backhoe
>muh bulldozer
>muh trench
>muh lava tube
You guys are arguably worse for making it a shitfest every time its brought up.

>>11826879
POST

THE

RADIATION

FIGURES

>>11826842
>>11826855
If the material is still being imported from Earth you are going to need far more for printing than with traditional manufacturing methods to get the same strength that can be achieved with simple interchangeable building parts like some sort of Ikea home.
Down the track with a large number of people there maybe it becomes worthwhile, I really don't see it being used until things are settled in.

> has to be buried
You are essentially saying "Bring regolith to Mars instead of using it there"

>>11826857
Okay I don’t disagree, but also keep in mind that part of keeping Starship’s cost down comes from the ability to get them back to Earth and reuse them. By sending your first fleet to Mars and hogging them for life support you dramatically increase the cost of the overall mission

>>11826866
here's one of the streams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbfmTCZLpaU

>>11826889
Elon has already said they will be leaving a bunch of them there so your opinion is irrelevant.

>>11826869
>if you provide structure and shielding for them with local materials
So a printer? The reason fully printed structures are a good idea is because the inflatables are limiting. That is why the designs using inflatables in the most recent competition did not win.

>>11826889
Obviously the people haulers will come back, but I believe the cargo ships will stay. Starship isn't that expensive even expendable, while living space on the surface early on is going to be a premium. Their lives are more valuable given to the cause than in reuse.

>>11826901
He said a few and they will probably be the initial cargo starships

>>11826903
WHERE ARE THE RADIATION FIGURES

YOU CLAIM THEY ARE EASY TO FIND

SO POST THEM

PROVE YOUR COLONISTS WON'T FRY

>>11826879
>muh filament/concrete appears from nowhere
>just point and proont!

>>11826910
>Their lives are more valuable given to the cause than in reuse.
I disagree, until they have a bunch in the fleet every starship lost will be sorely missed.

>>11826901
I did not know this. Wasn’t trying to win an argument or anything. Just assuming

>>11826903
>So a printer?
So tunnels. So trenches + pressed regolith brick. So sulcrete. All scale better than proonting.

>>11826921
>YOU CLAIM THEY ARE EASY TO FIND
I did what?

>>11826892
The half-assed live translation at the bottom is endearing but also a little annoying.
Are they seriously doing that live interview right on the fucking pad at T-20:00?

Y’all watch the chinese launch stream, if it explodes we can set aside our dig/print rivalry and laugh together. The dragon will fall from the sky, confucious say

>>11826922
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunarcrete

>>11826938
No, you need your special corn polymer bullshit mix because apparently its totally impervious to radiation.

>>11826931
The translation is welcome. It's funny to see the guy manually typing the translation. Also yeah lmao is this thing fucking pre-filmed or something? Like did the rocket already successfully launch and they're showing themselves "livestreaming" it? If this thing blows these people are going to be fried

>>11826892
>We will now move 200 meters away from the launch site to view the launch safely
NIGGER WHAT

>>11826946
Imagine the smell

>>11826946
chinks got balls unlike pussy americans

>>11826944
That's one of the reasons I was a little irritated by the translation box, it was blocking the wide view of the rocket so I couldn't tell if those crazy chinks were actually at the pad concurrently with the feed

>>11826946
Delicious hypergolic fuel aromas

>>11825954
isn't starlink supposed to make upwards of 50 billion a year for spacex

>>11826869
They also scale up pretty damn well, weigh basically nothing and easily patched. You'll need other a few other structural parts, lifesupport and wiring but that's about it, can be a self contained package with basically no effort needed apart from some regolith shielding around the edges.
Proonters need to get in there and add all this shit while it's being built or afterwards, they need to have pressure sensors to prove it's airtight before arrival, the habs_will_ be filled with hazardous perchlorates that need to be removed. They need to ship absurd amounts of material to build a fucking wall, assembly is not included.
t. inflatables guy

>>11826960
Unfathomably big, if true holy fuck

>>11826951
I love the smell of UDMH in the morning!

(I miss red fuming nitric acid tho...)

>>11826960
Telecom is a trillion dollar industry globally and he stands to seize basically all of it. It all depends on how cheap the terminals are and how many countries get their politicians lobbied by local telcos to cockblock him. I'm thinking tens of billions easy though.

>>11826921
>https://techport.nasa.gov/view/90251
>https://www.tctmagazine.com/additive-manufacturing-3d-printing-news/nasa-radiation-shields-bigelow-expandable-activity-module/
>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303960289_The_4S_Symposium_2016_-_A_NEW_ERA_FOR_SMALLSAT_PRODUCTION_IN_SPACE_BEGINS_NOW

>>11826892
>>11826931
> Probably a good idea to move back a bit from the launch
Based fearless Chinks

This is the final part of the Beidou constellation yeah? I wonder if my drone can pick this shit up yet. Getting the dual GPS/Glosnass sensor was great for accuracy.

>>11826936
Only reason I'm watching it is on the off chance it explodes.

>>11826883
>If the material is still being imported from Earth you
Its not

Bros, China is planning a manned lunar landing by 2025. Maybe we will all be cursing in Cantonese in the future like Firefly predicted

feels about right
>the feels

>>11826969
if I remember, it is pretty optimized for the asian subcontinent.

>>11826975
And Soviet Russia was planning on beating USA to the moon.
Plans don't always work out.

>>11826967
Starlink won't have the throughput to replace telecoms outside of rural areas. IIRC there's independent problems with supplying high density urban areas with it as well.

Still, if it's supply rather than demand constricted where it can service, which I think it will be, it will be ridiculous income.

>>11826968
Literally no data relevant to your special snowflake polymer concrete in those links.

Quick someone post the take ze shot meme

>>11826265
t. angry capitalist

>>11826985
>Hello, Bogdanoff?
>Chang, take ze shot

>>11826936
I want it succeed.
Y'all muthafuckas need to get over your petty Earth based worldviews.

>>11826944
>>11826946
I wish I could draw.
>"Now we wirr view rocket raunch from 200 meter! Speciar press access!"
>Ignition
>Panel of skin being stripped off the reporter's face in the rocket glow as he admires the launch

>>11826530
>orion capsules
dropped

>>11826980
You can supply higher density areas by simply having more satellites in each "ring" so there are more visible at a time from any given point. Haven't crunched the numbers but I suspect its probably still not viable for giganigga dense cities but for medium towns and urban sprawl it should be doable.

>>11826977
Am Australian, so hopefully still get decent coverage. Have a decent tool on my phone to check em.
US is going through with GPS v3 soon, not sure if available for civilian use.

>>11826975
Source? Everything they've said until now has indicated some time in the 2030s. Maybe Starship is making them antsy, and they decided to go without Long March 9?

>>11826980
Every Hughesnet customer, everyone relying on shitty rural cell tower internet, and everyone in Australia will be chomping at the fucking bit to switch over. Supply is definitely going to be the limiter.

> uuuuuhhhhhhh I'm gooona detach
t. Umbilical

>>11826989
Lmao this shit makes me laugh every time
>>11827005
I was going down the wikipedia rabbit hole last night and read it. I'll try to find it after this launch

>>11826892
one minute to launch!

>>11826967
>>11826980
imagine all the african shitposters...

That's a kino launch site it has to be said

God DAMN they just scream the countdown and that thing just angrily lites and takes off

>>11826993
China's government is surpassingly evil and their people have been fed cultural poison for decades. China cannot be allowed space dominance in its current form. It needs to be freed from the "One China" lie that people have tried to force for thousands of fucking years.

>>11827005
How will they send people to the moon without a heavy lift viechal.

>>11827022
Isn't pretty much all of this technology borrowed from the Russians or stolen from America? Chang can't do anything by themselves it's pathetic

>>11826929
>>11826929
Tunnels maybe but then you have a psychological problem. Also have fun burying a non rigid pressurized hab without rupturing it.

>>11827015
I want to see some Nigerian Princes on this board.

>>11827024
They have plans for a Long March 9 heavy lifter

>UDMH Deathcloud
>4 village booster flattener
>1st stage village flattener
All in all a good launch, I guess.

>>11827029
Have fun PROONTing on uneven ground.

>>11827029
Have fun catching cancer from inadequate shielding in your buttplug. Tunnels won't have windows but at least you won't get nuked by cosmic rays.

>>11827029
>build tunnels
>build glass domes connecting to tunnel
>???????
>best of both worlds

>>11826943
>thinking AI spacefactory is the only design because reasons.
The reason the polymer was a good idea is because it was less prone to clogging, stronger and needed less thickness for radiation than standard regolith concrete. It doesn't mean the final product would be corn based.

>>11827035
So it blew up?

>>11827043
Still flying.

>>11827024
On orbit assembly with Long March 5, I guess.

>>11827041
>muh glass domes
Pop sci garbage

>>11827041
Trench, semicircular inflatable design, mound up the sides a bit with regolith, clear transparent roof with water storage.

>>11827036
K

>>11827040
>muh cosmic ray meme
Yeah better live like mole people

>>11827022
> Cope: The Post
I don't give a shit and not going to get into a /pol/ argument with seething mutts.

>>11827053
>literally proves my deflection by not posting any kind of proonted that can account for uneven terrain

>>11827036
>>11827040
>have fun
Reddit is that way ->

>>11827057
Ah, like living in GLADE canisters is any better.

>>11827057
>Entirely plastic construction
>X-rays are GCRs

Yeah better go back to school.

>>11827029
>Tunnels maybe but then you have a psychological problem.
Any long term habitation plan that doesn't include a significant depth of local material built up around it is a nonstarter. To that end it doesn't matter whether it's printed, entrenched, tunneled, poured, etc.

>Also have fun burying a non rigid pressurized hab without rupturing it.
You don't bury it in a rubble pile, you make a structure and then you inflate inside of it. If you want to go with the rubble pile method you probably could with thicker inflatables, but at that point you're better off just welding the internal structure out of plates or something.

>>11827059
Because its not new technology

>>11827064
>a faggot keeps shilling the proont concept with his gay ass popsci s-y wars artfag concept art and gifs without actually providing relevant testing that shows if the concept really is useful for mars habitats
>we tell him about how dumb
>we're the plebbitors
The fuck?

>>11827067
>include a significant depth of local material built up around it is a nonstarter
Which is why the buttplug won the competition because mixing polymer with basalt and regolith materials allowed for a shallower depth.

I think Mars radiation is an overblown meme and really just need advanced warning about solar activity and safe retreat areas underground or in water tanks. It's not an unsolvable problem, we have plenty of experience with people on the edges of "safe" rad exposure. Go check out nuclear reactor divers who live on the frontiers of this shit, they do ok. Being a firefighter will probably kill you quicker.

That said hab proonters are the far bigger meme

>>11827074
You are talking like you are from reddit and you are pushing glass dome fantasies like you just looked at a magazine picture.

This live feed is hilarious. I love it's shitty production values and random cunts yelling in Mandarin over the top.

>>11827076
This. I'll admit that I don't have actual documentation, but I remember hearing the BEAM on the ISS actually had better radiation protection than the other modules. Of course, the other modules are literal soda cans, so it's not saying much.

>>11827076
Cosmic rays are no joke my dude and arent comparable to any radiation environment on Earth because our magnetosphere deflects a huge percentage of them.

>>11827075
>non-ISRU raw materials
Disgusting. And it's still no different for the people inside except that it's restricted to the size of a boom arm and the walls look like they were haphazardly extruded by the anus of the dismissive god of their new hell.

>>11827076
>meme
Not really what you said is incredibly true, also an ice hab was one of the designs proposed because of radiation

>>11827085
It has windows that show the martian surface and a skylight unlike living in a bubble in a tunnel

>>11827078
The fuck are you on about? I'm an inflatable fag. Unlike the glass dome meme, inflatable bulletproof bags have at least been proven in orbit three times, those being:
>Bigelow Genesis I
>Bigelow Genesis II
>Bigelow Expandable Activity Module
Sadly, Dr. Bigelow got dosed by coronachan and died, so SNC is taking over.

>>11827087
>Sitting in ice house relaxing
>Sun comes up
>House sublimates on you

terrible idea.

>>11826892
kek the subtitles.
Congrats Chinks, welcome to the space community.

>>11827089
Wow yeah windows are a great trade for getting fucked in the ass by radiation 24/7

>>11827089
If you can install a skylight in a proont structure you can install a skylight in a tunnel. It's a tunnel, not a portal to another dimension.
>muh windows
I say this every time but if you go the tunnel route it makes no sense not to use the raw material recovered to make surface bases anyway. Tunneling and pressing structural brick at the same time works on Earth and Mars.

>Dr. Bigelow's extra heavy dosage
It was a quiet day out in the cosmos. NASA and Bigelow both stood opposite of each other:
"NASA: You have been skipping out on your IP. Why?" asked Bigelow
"I am an American Space Administration. I don't need any of these worthless IPs!" he replied with defiance.

Bigelow shook his head in disapproval and began to charge up his BA-330 tanks. Before he knew it, NASA was trapped and ready to receive its innovation:
"I didn't get this engineering degree for nothing. I want to help spaceflight. Just sit still and it'll be over soon," Bigelow calmly stated

Despite his gentle reassurance, NASA continued to struggle, cursing at the billionaire under his breath. Piccolo pulled up his and orbits: He was ready to administer the dosage. Bigelow inserted his long, thick, BEAM into the ISS's exposed docking port.

"GET IT OUT OF THERE, YOU FILTHY RICH MAN!" shouted NASA.
Bigelow replied "That is no way to speak to your investor!" and continued to apply the orbital dose

Bigelow's BEAM was thoroughly pounding the ISS and it was near connection. But it seemed it just wasn't enough to help his patient. What should I do though? Bigelow thought. Suddenly, like a flash, the idea came to him: Immediately after docking, Bigelow unsheathed his Bigelow BA-330 from the ISS and began to charge himself up. NASA thought, it was finally over, but he turned his head back only to see a giant BA-330, with its crew volume even larger than ever.

>>11827103
NASA braced itself for the Saturn V-sized balloon that was about to penetrate the ISS. At first, it hurt incredibly: NASA had never felt such an powerful surge of pain before. But after an hour of nonstop pressurization, the crew volume became stretched and worn out to the point where he could enjoy it!

When Bigelow finally finished, it was released at such a force that the ISS released a large quantity of the air. Bigelow reverted back to his normal funds and let the ISS free:
"Thanks, doc. I'm sorry about how I was acting before. This module is great! I'll see you tomorrow then."

As the ISS flew over, Bigelow gave a smile of satisfaction: He was glad he could help another administration with their inflatable dose. But he had to hurry and give the other space programs their inflatable doses too! And so, he flew off as well.

>>11827094
wow, very nice view of the solar array deployment!

>>11827027
Yep.

>it's another "two faggots argue about printers" thread for the X-dozenth thread in a row

>>11827080
>Intense burst of applause that immediately stops

>>11827119
Yeah, unique shot for sure.

>>11827084
Yeah but they are problem anywhere, at least on Mars you have shelters. The main problem is solar events and they offer decent advance warning times. Regardless Cosmic events can still be detected at locally by astronauts and they act accordingly. It's all basic risk management stuff and a slow burn for actual damage. Like nuclear divers the least exposed do the most work and it's shared around.
The actual exposure on the Martian surface isn't really that much.

>>11827094
with this launch, they currently lead with 15 orbital launches this year, just behind the US with 14.

(Russia, who once held the lead, with 7 launches this year is now barely keeping up with... New Zealand! Go Rocket Lab!)

Poor little Murray
Launched to Mars in a Hurry
With no plans of living, indeed
“I’ve got it!” he said
With an idea in his head
“A printer is all that I need!”
Well when Murray touched down
He was met with a frown
As the diggers were taking the lead
Well it was not soon after
When the frowns turned to laughter
And his house fell apart with great speed

>>11827067
>To that end it doesn't matter whether it's printed, entrenched, tunneled, poured, etc.
it does matter though because you can't see the surface in a tunnel.

>>11827148
Thoroughly based limerick poster

>>11826761
sleep, anon

>>11827151
> Implying I wouldn't travel to a distant world and just stare at a screen all day anyway

>>11827146
SpaceX will catch up by midweek. Also the continuously delayed Vega launch should be tomorrow unless there's a single piece of grass out of place within a square km from the pad.

>>11826816
>>11826824
Using initial Starships has habs on Mars makes a lot of sense because the first dozen or so unmanned cargo Starships aren't gonna come back anyway, and you only need to repurpose one or two retired Starships as tank farm storage. The rest can pack along their own airlock doors for the colonists to install after they cut into the tanks, and after dragging in a few modular life support crates they'll have access to huge volumes to outfit as more habitat space for sleeping, eating, fucking, or whatever else colonists do when they aren't wrapped in comfy blankies in front of their computers piloting the remote control tonka toys working outside.

Every unmanned Crew Starship that retires on Mars is a free 1000 cubic meters of living volume, and every full sized Starship that you put effort into refitting the tanks is a lost cost >4000 cubic meters of living volume. By the time they need more than that they'll be able to fabricate their own cylinders and install them in trenches dig in the immediate area for back-filling.

>>11826921
>>11826968
https://www.bradley.edu/sites/challenge/assets/documents/3DPH_Phase_3_FAQ.pdf

>The rules specifically do not require design for Martian environmental conditions such as cosmic radiation, reduced gravity, extreme temperatures, internal pressure within the habitat, etc –as a result, these types of specific conditions were not defined in the rules. Wall thickness is expected to be based on resistance to the test loads (dropping of shot puts) applied during the head-to-head competition; Rules 8.7 and 8.8. Formore information on materials and radiation, two sites to refer toareOLTARIS (https://oltaris.nasa.gov) and MAPTIS (maptis.nasa.gov). Teams are encouraged to pursue a realistic Mars habitat design in all aspects but they will have to balance their efforts and focus based on the scoring metrics as defined in the rules. Teams can comment on their approach in their written submissions and/or their BIM model reviews

I'm going to look into this more.

>>11827173
Based and tubes pilled.

>>11827102
>recovered to make surface bases anyway.
Which is why printing is a good idea, you make surface habs immediately and then you can use the materials used while tunneling for printing more habs.

>>11827177
>The rules specifically do not require design for Martian environmental conditions such as cosmic radiation, reduced gravity, extreme temperatures, internal pressure within the habitat, etc –as a result, these types of specific conditions were not defined in the rules.
It's worse than I thought.

What if the Boing! meme manifested with giant springy solenoid linear mass drivers bouncing payloads into space?
>boing
>boing
>boing

>>11827177
thank you

>>11827112
And then Corona-chan stopped by and everything ended. The End.

>>11827182
Except that your printer could never keep up with even a modest tunneler.

>>11827173
A lot of the cost in starship is going to be the raptors too so if you debolt them and ship them back you have recouped a decent chunk of the cost and have essentially left behind a ready to go habitat. I suppose the heatshield is another decent chunk of cost but it seems that it would be too much work to remove.

>>11827183
Lmao

>>11827183
Please read up and watch the competition anon, its seriously interesting as hell and there are a lot of cool concepts.

>>11827191
>Watch muh popsci tier videos pls while I continue to not address the radiation because I have no sources for it

>>11827168
they are already racing against a second coofing outbreak in Kourou! Though the official source of the current delays is high level winds.

>>11826913
They're gonna send a large number of Starships before they send people, and none of those Starships are coming back.
Even once they get propellant manufacturing running, it isn't a hard math problem to work out that propellant manufacturing capacity is gonna take at least a few sinodes to catch up to the propellant required to send every arriving Starship back to Earth.
Therefore you can easily expect more than 20 Starships permanently sitting on Mars after arrival, if not more. Inn the early days the Starships will all be outdated by the time they'd get back to Earth anyway, so it makes more sense to just retire them and refit them as apartment buildings. The radiation issue won't be a real issue for a while, because people going to Mars initially likely won't stay for more than one or two sinodes before going back to Earth, and after the first few sinodes the people on Mars would have the capability to simply weld together their own buried habitats using rolls of steel (and possibly tipping over and burying any of the old retired Starships for the same purpose).

>>11827183
Lul so it's just a competition to proont a strong buttplug.

>>11826929
>sulcrete
Based vocab, anon

>>11827183
It's worth noting that the team could very well have used OLTARIS and MAPTIS references and concluded tat their concept provides adequate shielding-I'm trying to look into that right now.

>>11826960
Doing some math the other day, Mars is well within SpaceX's reach if they make a hopelessly pessimistic profit off of Starlink of just $750 million a year, and Starship costs 20x more to launch than their target.
To put it simply, barring ULA snipers killing Elon himself, we are going to Mars in the 2020's lads

>>11827190
One way to Mars wouldn't need the heatshield though? Or at least a modified thin version.

>>11827188
Yeah but you don't want habs in tunnels

>>11827200
The space inside even one starship once you cut out the bulkheads is really tremendous. It almost make sense to just build a town out of starships stripped of all the expensive rocket components. If they make as much money from starlink as expected they could just throw hundreds of starships at a time and leave them there.

>>11827183
>Martian environmental conditions
Or even what happens to the concrete or whatever spooge you're squirting it out into what passes for an atmosphere on Mars. Low pressure, low temperature = any water in it will evaporate quickly if it doesn't freeze first. You gotta test that shit even works on Mars before leaving Earth.

>>11827215
I’d like to live in a tunnel

>>11827194
See
>>11826968
>>11827177

>>11827220
you and noone else. Imagine going to mars and never seeing the surface.

>>11827210
I wonder when the first non-SpaceX or NASA colonists go to the moon

>>11827218
They certainly can test it in simulated mars conditions-NASA has martian dust analogue and an enormous vacuum chamber to simulate the martian atmosphere near-flawlessly. That should be worked on ASAP.

one thing I do hope to see more addressed are SPEs. Good lord are those spooky.

>>11827211
Mars entry is seriously fast and hot, you definitely need the full heatshield. That being said if they do use mechanical fasteners, it could probably be stripped fairly quickly with some kind of mobile scaffold or scissor lift or whatever.

>>11827222
You keep doing this and none of the links have any data or relevant testing information. It's obvious at this point that it doesn't exist and you are just making shit up.

>>11827229
They don't have a vacuum chamber anywhere near big enough. Also you need to test it in 0.38g, that is an important factor not able to be replicated.

>>11827222
It is 100% possible that the team did a full internal radiation review on their design using the resources NASA mentioned in the FAQ. i'm looking into this. I really wish everyone on /sci/ was better at not degenerating into shouty tribalism whehn we simply have incomplete information.

>>11827229
> "With our technique, we can detect sunspot regions 60,000 kilometers [37,282 miles] below the [sun's] surface, and this gives us one to two days heads-up before they appear on the solar disc," said study leader Stathis Ilonidis, an astronomer at Stanford University in California.

Even just something at L1 can give you a heads up with some advance notice. It's not like a single cumshot of radiation, this stuff happens over hours, like a slow 80 man radiation bukkake

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/8/110818-sun-solar-storms-sunspots-predict-sound-waves-space-science/

>>11827201
NASA is doing a series of competitions with each giving them more information. They didn't score based on that but even so there were a lot of designs proposed that addressed the issue like the icehouse.

>>11827235
Oh anon,this is great! you get to find out about one of the coolest places on earth today!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43-CfukEgs

Look at THAT motherfucker!

>>11827239
Because he insists the data is there and super easy to find yet won't post any links to it, it's his fucking job, burden of proof is on him. So he gets shat on until he provides it.

>>11827239
thanks anon you are the only reasonable one here

>>11827230
Yeah I probably fucked that up thinking starship is somehow magically special compared to other landing methods.

>>11827226
i'd be fine living in a partially buried habitat with the top of it poking above the surface and having some windows, and the bottom of it poking into a giant pressurized tunnel or cave. the pressurized tunnels or caves would host parks, recreational areas, etc, along with connections to other homes. kinda like pic related, although i'm terrible at drawing on computers

>>11827245
Oh cool, I thought the biggest one was the one they used to test the crew capsules. Neat testing environment but you still can't replicate the gravity unfortunately.

>>11827245
That's some nice 0.38g you've got there.
Anyhow, it has to be actually tested, not just "look, we could test it here!"

>>11827262
with starship could they theoretically build a rotating station large enough and cheap enough to easily test stuff in 0.38g?

>>11827057
>tungsten
lmao, could you pick a less-readily-available element on Mars please?

>>11827084
>our magnetosphere deflects a huge percentage of (cosmic rays
No it doesn't, our magnetic field deflects most solar radiation and no cosmic radiation, which gets blocked by the mass of our atmosphere.

>>11827265
Sure but at that point they will already be sending shit to Mars.

>>11827239
If they aren't using ISRU and bringing all this material with them then it's a moot point anyway given the alternatives.
Proonting with Mars regolith in the beginning without a set of infrastructure backing you up to process and refine the ores then ensure QC is just insane.

So these plasma sail things look very interesting but it doesn't really help with the launch window issue does it? You can still only shoot straight out, maybe a little sideways motion but it doesn't seem like it would buy you more than maybe 15-20 degrees on the plane of the ecliptic so you still only get the one opportunity when mars passes by earth.

>>11827266
Just a picture showing printing materials being tested for radiation shielding

>>11827257
>>11827262

the lesser gravity is not terribly important-the biggest thing would be how quickly the material spreads out, and you could simulate that and make the printer highly adjustable on the surface of mars. you'd probably spend several weeks just testing it and doing smaller prints after it gets to the red planet to make sure it works.

I do hope that this concept gets developed and proved out further. I also want rad testing and further temp cycling under a pressurized load.

the idea of testing it in simulated mars gravity via a rotating station is ambitious, but way out. We've built machines that worked in lower gravity before without pre-testing in it, we can clearly figure this shit out.

>>11827190
>A lot of the cost in starship is going to be the raptors too
Raptors cost sub $2 million right now, and will probably cost sub $1 mil by the time they're landing on Mars. They don't actually make up a large fraction of Starship cost, maaaybe a large fraction of the Booster cost. Anyway, may as well send them back regardless, it's not like they're doing anything sitting on Mars forever.
>heatshield
will probably be cheap also, probably sub $100 per tile and optimally less than $10 per tile. These things will be almost all the same shape, and SpaceX will be baking them in huge batches, so economies of scale work in their favor.

>>11827255
Would be fine if its your family's hab, if its communal then it sucks

>>11827246
why do you assume that its one anon? I'm really hopeful for printing too and post in these discussions but i never start them

>>11827289
The lack of g testing is what it is. The issue is the complete lack of standards. By even making considerations for it you're already going beyond what is expected of these glorified toys.

>>11827239
>shitposting of unreal proportions for and against printable habitats
>noone has even looked at the source material
Sounds about right, this is why I'll never take this board seriously.

>>11827226
I’d go out during the day of course, but sleeping underground seems intuitive and safe from radiation

>>11827289
I hope it gets tested completely too, i think it would be really applicable on earth if perfected.

>>11827304
Radiation isn't always an issue, also who says you'll be allowed outside?

>>11827313
It won't be of much use on earth. The majority cost of a house is in the foundations and the fitout, printing won't make these cheaper. You might knock a bit off the cost of the shell but I don't see it being much.

>>11827317
>Allowed

>>11827317
>Noo you can't live in tunnels! What an awful hellscape, abusive, terrifying, unconscionable, no one could ever survive three seconds without staring out a window
>Oh but you will never be allowed to leave the confines, this is normal, da?
THe fuck commieblock shit are you on

>>11827317
lol the surface radiation is 20 mrads a day-it's not THAT bad, esp if your suit uses demron.

>>11827335
Presumably a lot of that is from UV too which is instablocked by pretty much anything.

>>11827215
>>11827220
freshly baked OC, please spam all proontfags with this image in the future then ignore

>>11827321
Not housing but commercial buildings, commercial ship building and transportation infrastructure

>>11826126
Shiftymine in zero g.

>>11827317
>Radiation isn't always an issue

I don’t want cosmic rays smacking into my cells while I nap.

> also who says you'll be allowed outside?

Who’s gonna stop me? Chairman Mao?

I'm really hoping that this one american company cracks fusion in the near future, because that would be insanely useful on mars and in aerospace in general, especially since this form of fusion isn't ginormous.

>>11827351
using periscopes to see outside your prison. Yeah just kill me now

>>11827360
It’s the safest way to see outside while blocking radiation. Seems fine to me.

>>11827360
Using glass holes to see out of your buttplug prison. Yeah just kill me now.

>>11827265
>with starship could they theoretically build a rotating station large enough and cheap enough to easily test stuff in 0.38g?
Yes, two Starships connected via a ~200m tether attached to the same hard points used to lift in Earth gravity for stacking, and rotating at a few rpm. Construction cost, ~10 million (cost of two Starship launches, plus tether hardware cost).

>>11827360
planetary colonization isn't going to be glamorous, anon

>>11827360
Why does literally any design that actually blocks radiation trigger proontfag to this degree?

>>11827330
Can you afford an Eva suit? How often do you go outside now

>>11827368
Dunno about glamor but it sounds badass and purposeful. Hopefully they’ll let people in their 40s go because I wouldn’t feel like a good dad flying off to space before the chicks have left the nest.

>>11827368
that's not what Elon said.

>>11827335
A water filled external suit keeps it insulated, can maintain pressure from punctures which will freeze over, protected from rads and maintains bone density from the extra weight.
Human aquariums when.

>>11827351
You seem to have originally written this about using in situ made martian steel, which is 100% possible and should be created but is clearly going to be a big challenge that takes serious existing infrastructure, especially creating massive pressure rated tubes of steel, so midway through you swapped it to just filling up a starship with steel tubes, which isn't impossible but which does mean you'd need to also send up a starship with machinery for moving the dirt, moving the bulky steel tubes out of the craft, assembling the interbal fixtures and flooring, plumbing, air management systems,etc as well. Huh, this is starting to sound kind of complicated isn't it? Turns out on matter how you do it,you need a lot of stuff to build a human living space.

>>11827381
Negroes walking around looking like the fish from Chicken Little

>>11827372
Even if you do tunnel you wouldn't want such a shitty window design, you'd want coupulas.

>>11827360
Sorry I didn't add anything for scale. That periscope is a two meter wide picture window, also you can put two in every room if you want. Of course, you could also have little surface observation rooms down short hallways around corners and up a flight of stairs. Since you probably wouldn't spend more than a few minutes a day there you'd be fine, especially since the roof of the thing would still have a couple meters of shielding regolith so you're really only getting any dose from cosmic rays and their scattered particles sneaking in through the visible sky sneaking between the roof and the horizon.

>>11826174
>"I'm sorry simps, but I'm afraid I cannot let you COOM to that."

>>11827383
You would send rolls and cut and weld in situ, not a fucking hard task, the welds can be yolo tier as well since you aren't building a rocket fuel tank.

>assembling the interbal fixtures and flooring, plumbing, air management systems,etc as well.

You have to do this for literally any habitat, irrelevant.

>>11827372
> build a huge inflatable transparent dome where colonists can fly around in 1/3rd gravity doing fun recreational activities and all it took was a tiny amount of plastic
> b-b-buuuut my bedroom is in a quiet dark trench where I sleep peacefully at night, this is hell I want to go back.
Ok buddy, please never sign up.

>>11827390
> welding in near vacuum environments
Everything went better than expected

>>11827399
It's literally easier than welding in an atmosphere,

>>11827399
Soviets did space welding

>>11827396
>get cancer and die from cosmic rays

>>11827390
The fact that the 3d printing concept can use martian basalt fibers and basic bioreactors to generate its substance, rather than relying on resources from earth means that a 3d printer could produce dozens or hundreds of structures over its operational life. your concept is much more limited.

In the long run, your idea of a hab has merit, but it's only really good if we have a strong industrial base.

>>11826993
Launching stuff into space is not inherently exploratory.

>>11827399
Yeah I'm not sure if that came across well as being a joke rather than criticism
t. shitty hobby welder.

>>11827406
anon,we've been over this, martian radiation is 100% possible to solve with a freestanding structure. As long as you have an effective shelter from SPEs and you can cut the average radiation per day to 3-6 mrads it should be fine.

>>11827360
fuck you

>>11827383
>You seem to have originally written this about using in situ made martian steel
Nope, I made that just now with steel sent by Starship in mind. Obviously once Mars industry has been built up to include sheet steel fabrication they can do that a lot faster, but it's not necessary to start.
Also, fuck you for talking about needing a bunch of shit to do anything when the whole first two decades of this effort is going to include just sending a bunch of shit anyway. It's happening either way, this method simply gets you tens of thousands of habitable living space per Starship steel shipment, and rapidly at that. It doesn't take hundreds of tons of equipment to be able to dig a trench, nor to be able to unspool and weld steel. Also, I didn't say they'd send prefab tubes (may as well just send entire habitats because they're the same bulk), I said rolls, as in ten ton spools of meter wide, 5 mm thick steel.

>>11827415
I mean to say that welds made without atmosphere is basically what everyone wants and half the kit for modern high quality welding is trying to get around the existence of certain gases in the atmosphere

>>11827416
You need more than five meters of rock to block galactic cosmic rays.

>>11827411
It's not his concept, it's my concept.

If a PROOONTER takesmonths to make a single 1000 cubic meter volume, but a 10,000 cubic meter tube can be fabricated in weeks, and new people only arrive once every two years anyway, who gives a shit?

I for one feel that 3D printing on Mars will be vital in the development of chintzy desk toys and keychains.

>>11827411
>The fact that the 3d printing concept can use martian basalt fibers and basic bioreactors to generate its substance

Because you definitely don't need an industrial base for this.

>>11827422
This. I wonder if Mars' surface is enough of a vacuum to allow electron beam welding.

>>11827424
Yes, which is why cut-and-cover tubes in trenches is the ideal solution for any colonization effort.

>>11827429
Based, even if we were making basalt fibers in situ we'd be using them to press together mars-crete tables and chairs, not trying to prooont structures like retards.

>>11827418
I wonder how thin you could make the steel, you could probably do this out of 1-2mm steel desu. I doubt 5mm steel is going to be strong enough to support the weight of the regolith so you are relying on pressure for structural integrity anyway.

We can give Mars a magnetic field.

WHAT ARE THEY DOING IN THE SPACE STATION NOW ANON?

>>11827442
Yes but terraforming will still be a politically unviable option. Good luck convincing an entire planet of people to vacate to space habitats while you systematically fuck the surface of the planet and pretty much guarantee destroying any permanent structures on the planet through various side effects.

>>11827432
>electron beam welding
I don't know much about this type of welding but the atmosphere using inert gases on Earth still have a fair bit of mixture with the surroundings, it's just small enough to be ok.
You wouldn't need shit to weld on Mars and I'm not sure about CO2 even being a problem with weld strength for common metals, oxygen is usually the troublemaker.
Starships are stainless steel which is ridiculously easier than aluminium when it comes to welding joints. In a virtually no air environment people with zero experience could do ok with welding stainless.

Kerbal Space Program's career mode is totally unrealistic, how am I supposed to believe that my company starts up then is quickly operating on an industrial scale and playing with advanced technology while every other company goofs around and needs my help? That kind of thing could never happen in real life...

>>11827442
>>11827447
Even a small field would do ok. I wouldn't call this terrforming though it would protect a lot of atmosphere being lost.
Also what are people on Earth going to do when Mars colonists go rouge? Tear down some statues?

>>11827430
>>11827438
>>11827418
>a bloo bloo muh steel
meanwhile PRINTCHADS are actually getting awarded by NASA to develop sexy,futuristic structures that stand tall instead of COWERING in the DIRT due to an excessive fear of radiation.
keep SEETHING

>>11827462
The CHAD brain tumor

>>11827462
>plebbit popsci
>chad
Take the L, you deserve it.

>>11827462
> NASA awards
> Best and Fairest
> Will put a digital photo of you and your wife's boyfriend on SLS
> Proudest moment of your life
Big bad private space about to rain down on your dreams

>>11827462
>implying NASA will play any role in Mars colonization
just sad really

>>11827471
Hey come on now they have to at least get a few token minorities there to prove they did something.

>>11827467
>implying ol musky won't be team print

https://www.teslarati.com/3d-printed-mars-habitat-perfect-fit-early-spacex-starship-colonies/

I can't fucking wait to drink your tears when be buys out this company. i will PROOOOOOOOOOOONT so hard

>>11826976
>Skylad

>>11827476
>https://www.teslarati.com/3d-printed-mars-habitat-perfect-fit-early-spacex-starship-colonies/
>With a focus on ease of scalable 3D-printing and inhabitants’ quality of life, as well as the use of modular imported goods like windows and airlocks, MARSHA lends itself impeccably well to SpaceX’s goal of developing a sustainable human presence on Mars as quickly, safely, and affordably as possible with the support of its Starship/Super Heavy launch vehicle.
Uh actually I'd say that this thread so far proves that PROOONTING as a concept for Mars habs is pretty peccable.
Elon I know you're reading this, you've taken the steel pull again, you know you need to take it again. The future is stainless.

>>11827485
No. It's inflatable. You helped Dr. Bigelow give his dosage to the ISS, it's time you help give mars the inflatable dosage.

>>11827476
>teslerati opinion piece

>>11827476
>Teslafag opinion piece
HAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

What are some good ways to know when a Starlink train is going to be visible in your area?

>>11827418
>lots of digging
>building out of solid steel
>terrible space optimization

There will be surface level warehouses built out of Solid concrete and boulders, no goddamn Steel needed

>>11827511
Enjoy building massive concrete buildings withought steel reinforcing.

>>11827418
Looks bland and impractical

>>11827514
Sounds possible with Martian gravity

>>11827466
>anime
You are the only loser here anon

>>11827521
Please learn about why steel reinforcing is used in concrete.

>>11827476
same its going to be amazing

>>11827515
>Looks bland
Interior furnishings will make it comfortable and nice to look at.
>and impractical
Good thing it isn't impractical, then

>>11827485
Kek this thread hasn't proved anything for either side of the argument.

>>11827529
>it isn't because i say so
Whatever you say anon