/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11821019
Yes it does, linear algebra is basically all digital computers can do

>>11821056
Linear algebra is a small, fixed, and useful implementation of abstract algebra.

>>11821019

>>11821064
Well, in the pic I saw basic tensors, linear algebra in my book, but maybe in burgerstan you call it abstract algebra to distinguish it from basic algebraic manipulations you call algebra in HS

>>11821078
No, I just grabbed a random pic from the web. We don't study tensors in AA, just congruence, groups, rings, and polynomials. Don't know what crooked comp sci program will have you study tensors and shit like that.

>>11821082
>Don't know what crooked comp sci program will have you study tensors and shit like that.
One that is not aimed at retards.
Tensors and linear algebra are extremely elementary and fundamental concepts in mathematics.

>>11821082
Tensors and shit like that are extremely useful in CS, I agree that maybe a deep understanding of rings, groups and fields not so much. Heck, I got a degree in physics without mandatory algebra (I took differential geometry instead)

>>11821084
>fundamental
I don't need it to be a programmer. It's completely useless out in the field. Just some dumb boomers like you who think math is beautiful and needs to be enjoyed in "all its glory".

>>11821082
>congruence, groups, rings, and polynomials
>THIS DOES NOT BELONG IN A COMP SCI DEGREE
pic is related

>>11821089
Real-world computers are not Turing machines, and asymtotic complexity is only a heuristic.

>>11821089
For CS you don't need a deep, math tier abstract algebra course, something lighter is enough. I don't know what kind of course OP is suffering through tho

>>11821100
op is in the post the first image on google of algebra course

>>11821019
>they consider 4 particular cases in all painful detail instead of the simple general definitions
yes, that belongs to CS

>>11821188
If I posted the exercise I had problems with, youd call it a homework thread.

>>11821200
because thats exactly what it is, homework

>>11821200
what have you tried ?

>>11821222
It's an exam question. Tell me how this correlates to computer science.

>>11821229
Nothing, I submitted a blank list.

>>11821231
cryptography and coding theory are a part of CS. the math behind cryptography and coding theory heavily uses ring theory. your pic is an easy exercise in ring theory.

>>11821254
Dude nobody is gonna hire you as a cryptologist for having passed AA.

>>11821262
did I claim otherwise ?

>>11821262
and they wont even consider someone who failed aa, whats your point

>>11821269
You almost implied it's useful in CS.
>>11821272
Most people will never consider cryptography as a profession, let alone apply.

>>11821275
>You almost implied it's useful in CS.
I didn't imply anything. you asked how is your exam question related to computer science, I gave you an answer.

>>11821275
there are much easier and cheaper paths to codemonkeying if thats what you are after

>>11821340
Most other courses in my university are fantastic. I would rather this cuck professor modify his programme.

>>11821350
its not his fault you aren't smart enough for definition->compute->answer

>>11821365
I'm not wasting precious neurons to develop knowledge I'll never apply.

>>11821410
why the fuck you go to school then? how naive can you be to expect that everything you learn there will be of some use to you individually

>>11821411
This isn't 'school', it's university. Like I said, most subjects are great and I get use out of them. Coding bootcamps are getting better and more popular by the year so we'll live to see the concept of university fall apart.

>>11821410
good idea, im not sure you had enough in the first place

>>11821088
>I don't need it to be a programmer.
Yet another retard confusing computer science with code monkeying.

>>11821410
should have applied for software engineering, Anon. You are complaining but you literally singed for it.

>>11821231
and that is why ruskies will continue to dominate cs and all things hacker in the foreseeable future

>>11821450
>>11821457
>wahhhhh I learned AA so you must two otherwise it's not faaiiiiiir
>>11821458
H-1B's are less than a dozen % in any FAANG company.

>>11821466
>implying i did
Even if it were true, that was not the point. You went for CS, it was not unexpected to get this course. CS is heavily an academic subject. You do not attend CS classes to only learn to code.

>>11821019
>THIS DOES NOT BELONG IN A COMP SCI DEGREE
Yes it does. Computation is inherently algebraic so understanding algebraic structures is the most important subject in the field.

>>11821019
Shit man...give me a real fucking problem to solve
V×V = R π € 7
V×Y7
∆V×7Y
= V×V=7V€Y7∆
Solve for V∆=V×V?

>>11821019
I guarantee your CS course is not doing graduate module theory and if it is you were well prepared with a semester on groups, fields, and ring.

You probably are just doing babies first group exercises and getting IQ filtered because you can't actually use definitions and logic.

Jobs niggers should literally be sent to trades school where they can learn to be code monkeys. Universities should remain highly technical, highly theoretical institutions

>>11821019
Almost all of ring theory is important to cryptography.
Error correcting code theory research is heavily algebraic.
Linear algebra, and in turn group representation, is insanely important in CS.
One of the big problems in quantum and learning is the hidden subgroup problem - not too algebraically heavy, but had you little to no algebra, the context would make no sense.
Algebraic geometry is important in communication complexity and in geometric complexity theory.

..and the list goes on. Abstract algebra is the bread and butter of theoretical computer science lmao

what is a tensor

>>11821019
If you can't understand pic related, I don't want you writing shell scripts at my company.

>>11822380
That's what you become when you shove a rifle up your ass.

>>11821088
Drop out and do a boot camp, stop complaining a CS program is doing its job and teaching CS.
>>11821092
Real world computers hit loads where asymptotic complexity is a real consideration. Scalability is a design choice for easy expansion, but it’s also a scheme to reduce complexity in the long run.
>>11821200
>>11821262
>>11821275
“Most people won’t do it”
Dude it doesn’t matter if most people want to be programmers - it doesn’t change the fact that CS is CS, and that includes topics such as cryptography, coding theory, learning theory, complexity, motion planning, etc.. all of which use abstract algebra to varying degrees. AA is applied heavily broadly to CS topics.
Drop out and become a dev, since you don’t need this stuff to program. It’s literally that simple

>>11822315
Literally this lol, OP is acting as though his problem sets are in topological data analysis or graduate algebra.
I guarantee you he got stuck on a basic “classify all groups of order 4” type question

>>11822380
It’s a certain generalization of a vector space where the scalars can be vectors. Then recursively, you can have tensors where the scalars are other tensors.
Once you write it out it makes more sense.

I honestly don't understand when you even start to use calculus in CS

>>11822454
Modeling problems, average case analysis (all those series problems come and bite you in the ass when you do generating functions), graphics theory (the way you discretize depends heavily on the relevant calculus), convex optimization (lots of analysis here too), more counting / combinatorics problems then you’d think, probability (even discrete problems will yield you using a lot of your calculus knowledge, but continuous distributions are important as well - cryptanalysis of learning resistant techniques for example), and various numerical methods in scientific computing / engineering computing.
Calculus is widely applicable among all of stem.

A tensor is an object that describes the inherent relations between its elements and is unaffected by transformations or the change in the coordinate system.

>>11822345
Agreed. Right now you get smug fucks on either side, ones complaining that what they learn is not a direct translation in their first coding job, others complaining about classes aimed at the first group, so in the end you get aimed for utillity but not quote up to date mix with watered down theory and you end up mediocre at both ends. At least in my shithole. We have what is called informatics in almost every math institute, not even a distinction of cs and soft eng. While theese disciplines overlap, i think the course should be more clear with its end goal.

>>11821200
Лoooooл мaйнa тoвa e пъpви кypc. ПЪPBИ КУPC. Aкo тoвa ти e тpyднo, нaпpaвo oтпиcвaй и oтивaй в Teлepик дa cтaвaш "poкcтap кoдep". Чaкъpян, бoг дa гo пpocти, cигypнo ce въpти в гpoбa cи.

>>11821200
>>11822494
Aкo caмo oт тoвa ти e тpyднo, нe ми ce миcли кaк щe плaчeш кaтo cтигнeтe дo ДИC2 или тoпoлoгия.

>>11821019
Shouldn't abstract algebra be more intuitive for CS majors than say calculus? Would it help if we rephrased everything in terms of types and classes?

>>11822524
>intuitive
Calculus should be intuitive for CS majors - there are a lot of non physical, intuitive applications of calculus in CS. That being said, I don’t think it’s above CS students to get the physical intuition.
OP is just highlighting the fact that many shitters get into CS to learn2code.

>>11822454
Multivariable calculus is the most important, easily applicable calculus in CS, seen in computer vision, graphics, and robotics

>>11821089

based

>>11822530
>calculus should be intuitive for cs majors
and yet it isn’t at all and cs majors are terrible at analysis and geometry the most g loaded of all the mathematical sub-fields lmao

>>11822627
>g loaded mathematical subfields
>undergrad analysis and geometry
Lmao, try combinatorics. The idea of “most g loaded subfields of math” is more or less “durr, the math I like but struggled with.”
Either way, I don’t care what some shitty kiddies who want to be programmers can or cannot do - people in TCS, which is a straight mix of CS and math undergrads, regularly publish in both math and CS journals.

>>11822866
>i like but struggled with
I’ve never struggled with geometry or analysis lol why are you projecting? The cstards in my analysis and calc classes did struggle especially when geometrical reasoning was required. They struggled even harder in the chem and physics classes I took and it was even worse when we had to do labs because you actually have to employ empirical reasoning.

>>11822872
>I’ve never struggled with geometry or analysis lol why are you projecting?
No, but I’m contesting the assertion that either of these subjects are “highly g loaded” at the undergrad level
>The cstards in my analysis and calc classes did struggle especially when geometrical reasoning was required.
My analysis classes were about ~20% CS and math double majors, and they ended up topping the class since they were all honors students and went on to take grad math and CS courses late sophomore / early junior year onwards. In particular, the ones who took algebraic topology with me were really good
>They struggled even harder in the chem and physics classes I took and it was even worse when we had to do labs because you actually have to employ empirical reasoning.
>empirical reasoning
Ive not seen people “struggle” in lab aside from a tricky weekly quiz here and there. It’s work but not “hard” when you have the theory down. Intro physics has a lot of shitters, but idk if you’d believe me if I told you EE students were the worst in my class for into E&M even for circuits. This dude in my class claimed to do battery research with a professor but couldn’t do a simple impedance calculation

>>11821067
he sez "bruh I solved it why you no?"

CS and Algebra are both memes.
PDEs and dynamical system are subjects for real niggas.

>>11823540
>I studied applied physics, guys look at me
Those subjects are cool but nobody cares

>>11823540
Nah, PDEs and CS are both cringe. Number theory is based.

>>11823032
>csnignogs topped my analysis class
I have literally never seen this, my professors hated all of the cstards and went out of their way to humiliate them for their brainletry.
>EE were the dumbest people in an EM course
You wouldn’t have to convince me the engis I’ve had the displeasure of sharing STEM classes with were always retarded monkeys.
>>11823540
truu

>>11823555
>I have literally never seen this
I have.
>my professors hated all of the cstards
>went out of their way to humiliate them for their brainletry.
I doubt this, but undergrad CS varies wildly in quality around the world. Like I said, the ones at my school were more than competent, especially the ones that were into theory / mathematics

>>11823636
It was the lack of ability to understand pure math existing for its own sake and the need to concretize things before even developing basic intuition. They resented it and it was obvious in their responses to the types of questions the CS fags would ask. I have never seen a group of people that spend so long immersed in an ideal world of inhuman logic and non-physicality that cannot into abstract reasoning. Unironically the philosofaggots I took logic and gen ed requirements with understood this kind of thinking much more readily. Physics and engineers were just bored, always whining about applications, but the difference there was the physics majors could do the work they just didn’t seem to bother with engaging with the theory deeply. Engis totally incapable of abstraction or complex quantitative reasoning, biology and chemistry majors rivaled them in this respect but the engis couldn’t into empirical reasoning either. Truly subhuman group of people. I have met one extremely talented CS person and they were Math undergrad.

>>11823658
I’ve seen uncurious undergrads across many majors. Again, I don’t really know what to tell you that there are CS majors who are shitters and those that are not. Personally I’ve found math students to be the least annoying, but both physics and engineering students to cover the largest spread of competency (some great, some really really bad). The CS majors at my school were a split between those who were doing it just for software interviews and those who were good at the mathematical stem subjects.

>>11821019
>calling it (((abstract))) algebra
yikes cs truly has fallen

>>11823709
>incurious
innate lack of competence leads to being incurious

>>11824175
>innate lack
Look I know the world seems nicer and easier to understand when you pretend like you can divide it up into the smart math majors and the dumb CS majors, but it’s not that simple.
Math, physics, and CS shouldn’t be fighting each other, given they’re the 3 big mathematical sciences grad onwards

>>11824172
This is more an American thing than CS. Algebra alone may refer to middle school polynomial problems, basic trigonometry, rational functions, etc.. so it’s differentiated either by qualifying it as “modern” or “abstract.” They don’t use “college algebra”... since well that also refers to middle school shit.
Either way everyone within the department calls it algebra - it’s just “abstract” so normies and engineering majors are dissuaded from taking classes that will tank their gpa

>>11824232
I was talking about my classmates anon not CStards in general. You brought up an anecdote, and I responded in kind. Was just wrapping up my thoughts since we will never agree on this.

>>11821019
ИCH виe ли cтe?

>>11821200
>>11822494
>>11822503
bulgarian really is gutter russian, isn't it
BAM ЗДECЬ HE MECTO, ЧУPКИ, ЭTO PУCCКИЙ БOPД

>>11821019
Aбe я ce пpибиpaй бe тъпo ИCH

>>11822503
тoй нe e oт фми a oт тy

>>11821019
TУ, тoвa ви ли cи?

>>11824676
go home sergei
you're drunk

>>11822481
t. pseudointellectual zoomer

>>11824249
You also brought up an anecdote anon.
CS majors are by in large stupid, but they still have a subset of really smart people in there. It might be a much smaller subset than in math or physics since most CS majors want learn2code and it’s a very popular major, but the good ones exist.

>>11821019
> fell for the CS meme

>>11821100
>For CS you don't need a deep, math tier abstract algebra course
I mean, you do for group theory and a good amount of ring theory. I could see an undergrad CS course slacking off on algebraic geometry, field theory, and Galois theory, but in CS, the main reason you care about algebra is the “math-tier deep abstract algebra” and its ability to give useful structure for algorithms or give separation bounds

>>11822524
Not for me. I've taken five or six calculus courses with no problem and dropped out of both abstract algebra and linear algebra in the first week.

>>11827814
>first week
Wat
How
The first week is literally just definitions of some basic objects. It’s almost entirely visual / geometric so you can draw yourself lots of examples.
????

>>11827821
In abstract I had to do a bunch of proofs for shit I didn't understand and more new symbols I've ever seen in a class at once.
In linear I felt like I was looking at alien writings, I couldn't even finish the first assignment.

idk, higher than basic algebra is beyond my level of understanding

>>11827828
>In abstract I had to do a bunch of proofs for shit I didn't understand
Part of the reason you do proofs is because it bolsters your understanding
>more new symbols I've ever seen in a class at once.
Such as? New symbols alone aren’t necessarily intimidating.
>In linear I felt like I was looking at alien writings, I couldn't even finish the first assignment.
Like what? The notation is literally lower case u’s and v’s that represent vectors and matrices, which are some of the most down to earth things out there.

Anon I legitimately don’t get it

>>11828546
>Anon I legitimately don’t get it
Interesting, I guess I just can't explain it well enough but I think I'm just going to avoid these algebra classes in the future.
I really like the idea of them but I just can't pass them.