/sci/ - Science & Math

The point of algebra is to teach a higher level of thought. The educational standards in high schools (especially in Cali) is so low that any idiot with a calculator can get a diploma. Higher education certificate implies ability to think on a higher level. Even temp agencies require people to take tests to prove they are educated enough to be able to hold a job.

What is "intermediate algebra" in the US?

>>11820055
high school algebra

>>11820055
https://edsource.org/2017/at-cal-state-algebra-is-a-civil-rights-issue/582950
It's the level after elementary algebra.

>>11820001

From a practical standpoint you can use it for Consumer/ Business math purposes. That way you understand how to balance your pocket book and maintain private enterprise better. But considering the US economic system literally depends on 90% of its citizens just consuming rather than saving or investing I suppose algebra doesn't mean much.

>>11820055
7-8th grade algebra taught to people who have no business in college
>>11820060
we don't learn algebra in hs, freshman and possibly sophomore year are precalculus and trig, junior and senior year are for calculus

>>11820158
In the US? 90% of HS don't teach calculus normally, but some of them offer AP calc for advanced students. Usually trigonometry isn't taught either.

>>11820181
what kind of nignog school did you go to? We had precalc as junior and senior math but most kids got into AP calc. Trig was taught in 9th grade. If you didn't take AP calc you were made fun of for being a retard at my school

>>11820001
The actual oppressive system against black Americans is that college is too fucking expensive for most of them.
This cycle of endlessly dumbing down courses in a futile effort to keep students who were never leaving because it's too hard in the first place is just going to continue forever because university administrations have no motivation to get tuition under control when they can just address fake problems that don't cost them anything instead.

>>11820191
That's just my experience from my very average US school. I'd say the majority, 90% of US schools don't require trig, and the majority of students don't take anything above algebra.

>>11820202
Your "very average" US school is bottom-barrel inner city tier, anon. Virtually every high school offers calc and the majority of students intending to go to college take it.

>>11820209
I mean, I took AP calc and received college credit, but the majority of my class never took trig.

>>11820209
>>11820216
Midwestern town btw.

>>11820216
you went to a nigger school anon. perhaps my experience wasn't representative of this god forsaken country's educational system but regardless you were among niggers in a school run by niggers for niggers.

>>11820220
this changes nothing whites can be and frequently are niggers

>>11820001
I knew a lot of white people at a supposedly good university that were still taking algebra
The American education system is a joke

If you don't understand the basics of math, it's kind of like your brain doesn't work very well. Learning basic math is like breaking the hymen of your higher thinking ability. It's good for universities to at least try to get people to learn a little.

>>11820243
Don't you think that there may be a kind of ceiling on the level of abstraction certain people and sub-populations are capable of? You remember the kids that couldn't read properly during English well into highschool? That isn't for lack of trying or lack of encouragement from teachers or exposure to literature. They're just idiots.

fucking hell America
what are you doing

>>11820258
OH SAY CAN YOU SEEEEEE!!!!

>>11820158
Holy shit, I keep seeing you people. Precalculus is literally algebra you fucking troglodytes. It adds in trigonometry, but analytical trigonometry is still inclusive of algebra.

>>11820258
no child left behind decimated high school mathematics

>>11820252
IMO, anyone who can learn the buttons on the cash register at McDonalds can learn calculus. It comes down to how much time you spend learning the cash register.

> kids that couldn't read properly during English well into highschool?
In my opinion, most of the people who couldn't read well could not do so because they did not invest the time and effort to learn it well, not that they are so feeble minded that they could not have done it, ever. Also, lots of little pieces of shit in the public schools think it's cute to pretend to be even stupider than they really are.

>That isn't for lack of trying
I think it is, usually.

>>11820220
I don't believe you. Which district?

>>11820337
Well... you know >50% of my class was hispanic, but my calc class was white as fuck.

>>11820001
This is from 2017 and everyone, including educated black scientists/mathematicians and academics, slammed the fucking idea and considered him a retard.

Your're clearly posting this shit to cause outrage, you /pol/itician. Fuck off to your board.

>>11820001
>taking Algebra at a college
I thought people learned this in High School, not college.

>>11820364
>pretending like """woke""" people still don't stay this
Imagine defending people that want to dismantle educational courses that actually require critical thinking skills.

>>11820398
If someone wants to find it there’s an academic that wrote an article about this topic that’s quite illuminating.
>>11820290
I recall you saying you found iq to be somewhat reflective of intelligence, tangential to that do you believe that there are some seemingly low complexity tasks like basic real analysis or sophomore level organic chemistry that might simply be too taxing for some people’s brains? What kind of limits to proficiency at analytical reasoning are you willing to accept for the average americlap? Genuinely curious.

>>11820364
My school recently dropped all chem requirements for nursing because so many people were failing them

>>11820408
What is the point of educational courses you don't need to make your job?
Why can't people who don't get math take courses without math (but only if everybody knows what courses thay passed exactly, like in computer games you sometimes can see Attack-Defense-Power-Knowledge skills. So you'd know that this person didn't path math beyond level 3, because her iq doesn't work with digits well, but that she passed language beyond level 10 because her father was a rapper and her literally iq is somewhat better.

>>11820411
Somewhere in the spectrum, low IQ transitions into profound retardation. I don't think someone with Down's could learn real analysis but I think anyone who can master the cash register at McDonald's can master basic mathematics. It's just that McDonald's workers spend WAY more time learning the cash register than they did trying to learn basic academic skills. So... some people are not bright enough to learn simple things but IMO almost everyone could learn the basic stuff if they tried to.

>>11820440
First, you need to go back.
Second, because a base level of understanding in all major subjects is required to be a decent person and make educated decisions, like for voting. If you can't comprehend the most basic statistics, or manipulate numbers yourself, how are you supposed to understand or find genuine sources on political or economic information concerning, say, GDP growth over time? Also, algebra is important in just about every intellectual field you could go into: Mathematics of course, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Nursing, and even Literature or History.

>>11820364

> Expected to be able consent and understand what it means to take out 20,000 in debt, but can't be expected to understand algebra

Literal rape

>>11820440
The point of a liberal arts degree isn't to train you for a job, it's to convince you that you are part of a much larger process of higher intelligence, and that you should spend your time doing moving human cognition forward rather than being a nigger

>>11820398
It's offered at community colleges mainly, I've never heard of an actual university starting anywhere lower than calculus.

>>11820468
For the sake of devil’s advocate
>because a base level of understanding in all major subjects is required to be a decent person and make educated decisions, like for voting. If you can't comprehend the most basic statistics, or manipulate numbers yourself, how are you supposed to understand or find genuine sources on political or economic information concerning, say, GDP growth over time?
A good chunk of people sit out every election, most of them aren’t college educated. Even among those who do vote, most don’t care about policy, they vote because they think it’s a sporting contest.
>Also, algebra is important in just about every intellectual field you could go into
Most people don’t go into intellectual fields, most people flip burgers at McDonalds. Two thirds of people don’t go to college. Of those who do a third drop out, and another third end up getting degrees that are completely useless for career prospects. So a super majority of the population does a line work that requires no intellectual input. Why should they care about basic subjects?

>>11820496
>A good chunk of people sit out every election, most of them aren’t college educated.
Then these people don't require algebraic education.
>Even among those who do vote, most don’t care about policy, they vote because they think it’s a sporting contest.
Why do you think this brings any argument against what I said? Obviously, these people shouldn't be allowed to vote. Just because our societies allow them to vote anyway doesn't affect the argument, they still shouldn't be able to in an ideal. Those that do want to vote, though, need to be educated.
>Most people don’t go into intellectual fields, most people flip burgers at McDonalds. Two thirds of people don’t go to college.
Guess what? Disregarding the voting aspect, We're talking about college students. People that are paying thousands of dollars to get an education in (in most cases) an intellectual field. If people want to drop out, then they shouldn't get an education in algebra. If they want to stay, then they should. College isn't for pandering, it's for education. Again, why do you think the fact that people drop out of college or work bad jobs affects the conversation at all?

>>11820468
I know for a fact that people who don't understand math still can get their diploma. Instead of allowing them to be honest about their flaws you teach them how to cheat.

>>11820533
>I know for a fact that people who don't understand math still can get their diploma.
Okay, they shouldn't be able to.
>Instead of allowing them to be honest about their flaws you teach them how to cheat.
Then they cheat, that's their responsibility, not mine or the college's. These types people aren't going to succeed regardless.
Neither of these things affect my argument.

>>11820550
>Neither of these things affect my argument.
Then please demonstrate how do you need algebra for "Nursing, and even Literature or History"

>>11820560
>nursing
The safe calculation of dosages, instructing patients on how to measure medicine at home, IV infusion drip rates, measuring intake and output of fluids, converting weight to metric units and a knowledge of the metric system. These are all easily searchable requirements for nursing.
>history
Knowledge and understanding of ratios between armies of different sizes, at least understanding mathematical history (see: Men of Mathematics by E.T. Bell), understanding on a surface level how scientific/mathematical discoveries lent to the innovations of their respective eras, understanding how populations of the past grew over time along with which factors influenced this and how they compare to other populations.
>literature
Much literature also has algebraic concepts discussed in them. For example, and I understand this isn't algebra at all but it still pays credit to the requirement of mathematical knowledge in literature, Euclid's Elements is considered the single greatest book regarding its use of logical deduction in history. There are also many other books that, while primarily discussing mathematics or science, are of interest to any literature student or scholar worth their weight, Newton's Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy, for example.

>>11820578
>Euclid's Elements is considered the single greatest book regarding its use of logical deduction in history.
It is not. That faggot haven't invent a single theorem, but re-proved perfectly proven ones (like pic-related) in some over-complicated way.
Some books require knowledge of biochemistry to understand, but those books are no more literature than Euclid.
Also the rest of what you mentioned isn't algerbra, but arithmetics.

>>11820591
>It is not. That faggot haven't invent a single theorem, but re-proved perfectly proven ones (like pic-related) in some over-complicated way.
Thanks for letting me know you don't know what you're talking about.

>>11820598
picrelated is Euclid's proof.
The image above was Pythagoras' proof.
Mind explaining why kids are given this one and not that one (other than the main task of education is to tame students into believing they're not very smart and have to be obedient)

>>11820181
My little redneck town in Alabama taught trig. Not sure about calculus, that may have been a cross enrollment course with a local college.

>>11820613
>picrelated
this one.

>>11820613
Because children aren't taught to understand logical deduction in school, they're taught to calculate.

>>11820619
And why are they not taught to understand logical deduction in school?

>>11820627
That's not my problem, it has nothing to do with our argument. I knew you were fucking retarded the moment you said Euclid never proved any theorems, but this is just sad.

>>11820636
It is you who has a reading comprehension issue. I never said Euclid never proved any theorem. Only that he didn't add new theorems to the list of already known ones. According to Diogenes Laertius.

>>11820646
>I never said Euclid never proved any theorem. Only that he didn't add new theorems to the list of already known ones.
Then Diogenes Laertius is wrong, you retard. My reading comprehension isn't bad, you're just stupid and don't know what you're talking about. You obviously have absolutely no background in mathematics or mathematical history, or you wouldn't have implied someone can "invent" a theorem, that is firstly not something possible and secondly not terminology used by anyone who knows anything about mathematics.. Stop talking on things you know nothing about.

>>11820440
>like in computer games you sometimes can see Attack-Defense-Power-Knowledge skills. So you'd know that this person didn't path math beyond level 3
autism

>>11820656
What theorem did Euclid invent? Challenge me to find you the origins of it.
I don't care about your terminology, also because I don't want to pretedn to be something I am not, but you're dead wrong about my iq and stuff.

>>11820398
I'm guessing it's for those that didn't attend high school or are high school dropouts, since we're talking about community college. Intermediate algebra is also called Algebra 1 and people take that shit in 7th grade. My high school required that you completed Algebra 2 (college algebra) to graduate, and my university offered Pre-Calc, the class after Algebra 2.

>>11820656
You calm down okay?

>>11820669
Yeah ok.
I'm buzy inventing a theoreme so i'm on edge i'm sory for my outburt i won't do it again but it's good to be passionnate no haha well i guess i'm off goodbye friend.

>>11820664
He didn't invent any theorems, he proved them (technically, he proved conjectures). He proved Euclid's theorem, which states that there are infinitely many prime numbers, and he was the first to do this (fun fact: that's why it's named after him!).
> I don't want to pretedn to be something I am not, but you're dead wrong about my iq and stuff.
By the way you type, I'm obviously not. You're talking about mathematical history and mathematical proofs, while using obviously incorrect terminology. You also refuse to understand that Euclid, using only 5 axioms and 5 postulates, proved just under 500 geometric theorems. Am I talking to a kid?

>>11820001
>a serious post
I think if they take out the quadratic formula in Algebra 1 courses you'll have a better outcome. Anything which involves pure memorization should be taken out. Everything else that is left can be derived using basic operations, and aren't too involved. For example:

[math] (a+b)^n [/math]
via the Binomial Theorem. Start at small [math] n [/math] and continue on into large [math] n [/math] then go onto the generalization. Linear equations, polynomial equations, simple geometric equations can all be derived and don't require memorization. Also note something like [math] 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10 [/math] can also lead to generalizations.

In short, take out any material that requires memorization, then make the problems more involved, but doable.

>>11820693
You are talking to a foreigner.
I can agree that whether Diogenes Laertius was wrong, or I don't remember what he wrote correctly, or earlier works didn't survive (not a single book of Pythagoras exists today, maybe only in some Vatican's vaults)

Niggas can't count lmao

>>11820158
>we don't learn algebra in hs, freshman and possibly sophomore year are precalculus and trig, junior and senior year are for calculus
What? What kind of school did you go to? Special needs? High school math here was almost entirely consisting of calculus and trigonometry.

>>11820364
>everyone, including educated black scientists/mathematicians and academics, slammed the fucking idea and considered him a retard.
Not according to the article

>>11820836
Are you retarded? Freshman Year: Trig or Precalc depending on what you tested into as a middleschooler; Sophomore Year: Precalc or Calc; Junior and Senior Year (everyone unless retarded, we shamed anyone who was below this level): Calculus. Don't ever reply to me again faggot

>>11820788
You can count on them to be felons

>>11820440
>What is the point of educational courses you don't need to make your job?
>Why can't people who don't get liberal arts and gender studies take courses without liberal arts and gender studies.

>>11820865
Not everyone is a burger here, is freshman year, sophomore, junior, senior what normal schools call highschool years, or is that part of university education?

>>11820881
Highschool education, eurotrashnigger. 9th-12th year of public school

>>11820001
- why do we have to learn this? When are we going to use this? How is this important in life?
- When you know nothing, you are forced to believe everything.

>>11820591

>>11820591
.

>>11820957
>When are we going to use this in real life?
Everyone that asked this question in my math classes turned out to be complete brainlets after graduation, including college classmates.

What should you be getting out of math? How to put in hours of practice and effort into something hard and get better, how to think through things using reason, definitions, and logic, and how to write a cohesive argument/proof to support your reasoning.

>>11820867

>>11820981
>when are we going to use this in real life
Yeah, this is essentially a brainlet question. I find it ridiculous how people who grew up to be absolute losers talk about how they never used the stuff they learned in school; of course you didn't use it, you're a fucking idiot! Anyone with minimal prospects for life would at least fancy the possibility that some more technical and complicated stuff might need a good amount of math.

>>11820001
do it. once you can literally get a diploma from a cereal box, then we'll have to evaluate real world skills and achievement rather than how good you are at practicing for exams.

>>11820252
>They're just idiots.

And the real problem is telling these idiots they can be 'just like everybody else' and go to college, university etc. Get them chasing impossible dreams to finance the capitalist machine and debt. Because they don't stand a chance in hell of actually completing a proper course the universities (to maintain that cash flow income) jsut dumb down courses and let them pass anyway. The end result of this dumbing down makes everything worse off for everybody as supposedly higher education becomes less valuable as a mark of actual academic or skills based achievers.

>>11820202
Your school was bad. There might be bad schools in the US but it is not 90%

>>11820613
I might actually know this one, its because in to reliably teach children a complicated mathematical or scientific process you need to teach them a simplified version of that first and then expand out to the full version once they have grasped the basics.
For example, you would teach a schoolchild about gravity by starting with Newtonian gravity and only moving on to Einsteins model after they had mastered that.

If you have one bucket that holds ten gallons and another bucket that holds four gallons, how many buckets do you have?

>>11821370
14

>>11820001
There is no point. If you don't want to study it and be a moron, then don't - stay poor and die in your ignorance, mudface.