/sci/ - Science & Math

First for fuck jannies and SLS.

inb4 boing btfo poster

pisslock retained genetically modified banana bug legs

>meccanum wheels on lunar regolith
whoever drew that needs a slap

SpaceX applying for a Canadian broadband license.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/spacex-high-speed-internet-1.5618918

>>11817827
You don't want traction when you're drifting around on the lunar surface while blasting Synthwave.

>>11817839
the little rollers wouldn't turn in the dust so you'd get no lateral drive making them some pointlessly complicated wankwheel. also have opposing sets on the same wheel would also make them non-functional on any surface.

Does anyone know why NASA had an armored truck escorting the DM-2 crew? (note the mission patch next to the side mirror)

>>11817850
success breeds jealousy. also there's a huge surplus of military vehicles so why not?

>>11817850
ULA snipers

>>11817850
Perpetually trapped terrans who don't want anyone to go to the heavens and take their 72 virgins.

>>11817849
I agree but what if you put a tread onto the rollers so they can scoop the lunar surface?

>>11817850
because it looks cool

>>11817878
your rover can move sideways like a crab, that's about it.

>>11817850
Credit to Trump. Whatever he's done we have largely forgotten about Islamic terror attacks.

Those astronauts would be a high profile hit for foreign or domestic terrorists. Most of all from ULA.

>>11817878
why not just use a tread

>>11817850
That MRAP belongs to the Kennedy Space Center Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team and it might be old military hardware passed along to them. NASA doesn't fuck around when it comes to security.

https://www.nasa.gov/returntoflight/main/swat_feature.html

Two launches tuesday unless there is a slight breeze.

>>11817858
>>11817884
underrated

>>11817886
No reason, I was just wondering if that would work. Mecanum wheels look cool but there's no way that they would be used on a lunar rover because even on a flat solid surface they have poor traction. Maybe you could put them on a lunar forklift that would work in tight spaces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW3OBb_b89k

>>11817884
We’re never leaving earth unless he wins again

>>11817827
That's the least problematic design choice as these wheels would work even when the rollers are jammed.
That shape made out of flat panels with sharp edges is realy terrible as a pressure vessel.

>>11817914
Biden hasn't said jack shit about space, if asked he'd likely stumble through a "our science are important for a future" kind of answer then move on.

>>11817921
He'll likely defund the 2024 mission and possibly SLS if Starship becomes a thing. Maybe deprioritize human spaceflight in favor of climate change research.

>>11817920
I don't see why you would even pressurize it as it just adds a shitton of complication to getting in and out. This is purely a procedural concern, because there is absolutely no reason cybertruck made out of stainless steel and ALON can't hold 1atm of pressure just because it's not autistically shaped for the purpose.

>>11817921
Democrats would shift funding from planetary science to studying climate change BS.

>>11817920
and the fuckhuge antenna pointing at nothing

>>11817924
>defund SLS
Don't threaten me with a good time, he would just give it a retarded new purpose just like everyone else.

Thank god SS is basically immune to this shit (there is Lunar SS, but it's a minor part of the project right now)

>>11817814
Based moon truck

>>11817924
obama not giving a shit lead to spacex being where they are today. maybe that approach isn't so bad if it means nasa end up using commercial exploration vehicles and focussing on the science when they get there. imagine the money sunk into sls and all it's previous forms but put towards doing shit other than leo yeeting.

>>11817927
1 atm of pressure is about 10 N per cm2, for a ~2m2 windshield that's 200 kN.
And the shape has a huge influence on weather or not it holds, sharp edges are a terrible choice as they concentrate forces wich leads to cracks and eventualy failiure of the part.
In addition to that you don't want to be in a space suit longer than you have to be.
>>11817932
Indeed, no need for an antenna that fucking huge.

>>11817952
Shouldn’t the pointy antennas cars have be enough?

>>11817958
i've just looked and for comparison the antennas used on the voyager probes are just over 3.5 metres diameter. the one on that truck looks to be about 2. overkill to say the least.

>>11817952
>muh big number
It's probably fine. If it's not, weld on more steel and put thicker alon windows until it's fine.
>you don't want to be in a space suit longer than you have to be
You'll think that until you try to put an airlock on a truck without sacrificing most of the useful space. Don't worry so much.

>>11817958
You sure need a directional antenna for a decent direct conection with earth.
However Yagi-uda type antennas or small parabolics should be sufficient.
That overly large antenna is just overkill.
Conventional dipole antennas would be sufficient for conection with the base.
>>11817974
Yes, but they also use 1970s RF technology and HUGE ones on earth.
>>11817977
>t's probably fine. If it's not, weld on more steel and put thicker alon windows until it's fine.
Weight is expensive in space.
You could get by if you just rounded everything off.
>You'll think that until you try to put an airlock on a truck without sacrificing most of the useful space. Don't worry so much.
NASA had a concept that sacrificed very little space for that by directly docking the rear part of the suit to the rover, effectively eliminating the need for a 2-door airlock.

CHINA WILL DOMINATE THE SPACE FRONTIER FILTHY AMERICAN SCUM

>>11817986
if they try, good. it will spur america on to do more.

>>11817986
Do it.

>>11817982
>You sure need a directional antenna for a decent direct conection with earth

Yeah, but relays wouldn’t be difficult to establish.

>>11817814
Why 4chen doesn't have space board?

>>11817850
They did all of it amid ongoing nigger chimp out.

>>11817982
>Weight is expensive in space.
Not on SS it ain't.
>You could get by if you just rounded everything off.
So do it. Adding some rounded wedges to the interior takes some steel stock, a lathe and a welder.
>NASA had a concept that sacrificed very little space for that
And it wouldn't be able to support a large unpressurized truck bed for materials because that space is taken up by the suit gate.

>>11817952
wasn't cybertruck doing transparent metal windows thing? didn't really watch the promo
they've been around a while and you get some ridiculous strength out of them as viewports

>>11818000
Sure, but with higher frequencies these antennas get quite small and there isn't much of a reason not to have one.
And even with relay satellites they would allow for a better transmission than omnidirectional antennas.

>still no microphone on mars
wtf

>>11818008
the groundwork that has gone into tesla will provide a very good basis for lunar or martian rovers, but they won't look anything like the cars. share similar chassis and battery components maybe.

I had a dream that everyone was making fun of starship for being a tin can so SpaceX released a seltzer brand called "starsip"

>>11818007
>Not on SS it ain't.
It#s still costing a lot of money per kg to send up stuff.
If you can cut the weight of something in half or even less by making it round, you will do that.
>So do it. Adding some rounded wedges to the interior takes some steel stock, a lathe and a welder.
The flat areas are also under a high bending stress and would need reinforcements.
It would be easier and far more efficient to start with a more round shape to begin with.
>And it wouldn't be able to support a large unpressurized truck bed for materials because that space is taken up by the suit gate.
There is no gate for the suits, they stay outside the entire time and just dock with the vehicle.
>>11818008
There was some tests for impact restance, but it went terribly wrong on stage.
>>11818016
Indeed, especialy the battery packs/modules seem well suited for lunar missions as they allready have a proper themal controll system.

>>11818015
But Mars Insight has one?

>>11818029
... no it doesn't? does it?
The Polar Lander had one but it failed.

>>11818015
doesn't perseverance have one?

>>11818036
It does and they even recorded wind
https://youtu.be/1PtdjFnY64M

>>11817982
>You could get by if you just rounded everything off.
They wouldn't be able to change the shape of it like that, the idea was to modify a cybertruck to be a lunar or mars rover. This could be cheaper than some alternatives so extra weight wouldn't be that big of a concern. I'm unsure if SpaceX is seriously concerning this idea or if Elon Musk is just doing marketing.

>>11818021
>There is no gate for the suits, they stay outside the entire time and just dock with the vehicle.
The space in red could all be dedicated to hauling in an unpressurized vehicle. Instead, you have no capacity whatsoever.
>The flat areas are also under a high bending stress and would need reinforcements.
See my other response >>11817977
>It would be easier and far more efficient to start with a more round shape to begin with.
The reasoning behind a cybertruck rover is skipping the hundreds of millions of dollaroos in investment to design a new platform. A few hundred bucks per kg of reinforcement is paltry in comparison

>>11818038
It's set to.
Let's hope covid doesn't fuck the launch schedule.
>>11818043
This wasn't done with a mic, though.
It was done with a seismometer. It's probably fairly accurate. I still want an actual microphone nevertheless.

>>11818043
what's going on with insight? did they ever get the drill to work?

feels bad having my name on a broken probe

>>11818045
>the idea was to modify a cybertruck to be a lunar or mars rover
i'd imagine they were more talking about taking the base vehicle and adding a totally new body to it not welding random bits to a prototype car from total recall.

>>11818020
*ssssssip*

>>11818051
>feels bad having my name on a broken probe
Your name is Heat Flow and Physical Properties Package?

>>11818020
>cans look like little SN prototypes
I'd buy one and I hate seltzer.

>>11818045
The truck is a body onf rame design IIRC.
So changing the body isn't that big of a deal, see Model S and Model X.
>>11818047
>The space in red could all be dedicated to hauling in an unpressurized vehicle
Everything else on the inside of an unpressurized vehicle would have to be larger to accomodate the space suits and it would have a rather short maximum mission duration.
>add more material
That makes it heavy, wich would make it insanely expensive.
>The reasoning behind a cybertruck rover is skipping the hundreds of millions of dollaroos in investment to design a new platform. A few hundred bucks per kg of reinforcement is paltry in comparison
They will need to develop a new body and thermal controll system as well as tires and suspension as all that is not at all suited for use in space.

>>11818057
microchip engraving. it's stupid but still kind of cool

>>11818051
From what I could find, the mole was finally underground in June, but NASA is still unsure that it can dig deeper.

>>11818068
Oh, haha.

>>11818065
>Everything else on the inside of an unpressurized vehicle would have to be larger to accomodate the space suits
Which is much less than all of that docking space. Basically all you need is to replace the nice seats with a little shitty bench so there's plenty of headroom, and take out the backseats so your backpack isn't obstructed.
>insanely expensive.
Lack of perspective
>they'll have to change a bunch of shit
Yeah. And everything they can manage to not change is spared expense.

>>11817936
Didn't Congress make it impossible for future admins to defund SLS?

>>11818065
Also
>The truck is a body onf rame design IIRC.
No, it's a stressed skin. So unfortunately no, designing an entirely new body is not trivial. If they do end up using cybertruck, I believe they will reinforce it before trying to install a new body.

S and X aren't body on frame either, but unibody like basically everything that isn't a work truck. X wasn't trivial to design and although it worked out in the end, Musk regretted the project

>>11818075
Even at the magic 1000$/kg the additional 1-2 tons per vehicle would be 1-2 million dollar.
That's per vehicle, changing the body would be far cheaper, especialy once you start to deploy a few of them.

>>11818080
Yes, SLS is in law now. The only way to get rid of it is to have Congress change the law, and many SLS supporters feel that this is a good thing.

>>11818082
>S and X aren't body on frame either
Model S and Model X ceratainly are body on frame.

>>11818083
>magic 1000$/kg
FH/F9 is in the 2k/kg range right now. This is on an order of magnitude pessimistic for SS.

>>11818053
The body of the truck is a giant exoskeleton like frame that can't be changed in size without basically making another vehicle and rendering the whole thing pointless.
>>11818065
This design isn't close to a body on frame and it's not like a convectional unibody either.

>>11818091
>display piece with the unibody sheered off
>see it's a body-on-frame
No lol

>>11818082
>designing an entirely new body is not trivial
this is a company that is throwing millions a week at blowing up grain silos and just put two men on the iss. designing a new pressure vessel to sit on top of technology they already have access to is nothing.

>>11818100
If you look closely on your image you can see a seperate body and frame.

>>11818101
Making steel cans is cheap, even at SS scale. It's not the can that's expensive, it's designing the rest of the vehicle around it.

>>11818103
What you see hanging below are the battery and the motor mounts. The battery does add structural rigidity but it's not a frame in the same way that a steel ladder frame under a truck is.

>>11818105
i really think you're overstating this. all the hard work is done in terms of batteries, motors, thermal management. bolting something on that whilst no trivial is well within the realms of what musk corp can do and it wouldn't involve reusing a prototype pickup.

>>11817814
Where are the armaments'?

>>11818110
That's not just the battery, but also a realy strong frame around it.

>>11818127
>That's not just the battery, but also a realy strong frame around it.
AKA the battery, yes, I'm aware. It is as I said.

>>11818130
>if I call a frame a battery, it’s a be\artery

>>11817986
Do it wang

>>11818135
The battery having its own frame doesn't make it the frame of the vehicle. It's one component of the chassis which adds reinforcement but does not somehow negate the fact that the vehicle is a unibody design. It has all of the benefits and all of the problems you would associate with a unibody, because it is one.

>itt: dedicated subsystems cannot be used as structural components for other subsystems

>>11817921
Any Democrat president will be strongly pressured by the pinko wing to obliterate everything Trump has done, good or bad, functional or useless, they'll scrap everything he did not because it needs to be scrapped but because Trump did it.

>>11818147
>tfw no stressed member engine, rear chapman struts and monocoque

>>11818155
has trump really done anything on space though? i don't remember any major announcement, but that could be because the last 4 years have been advanced whining and it got hidden in the noise.

>>11818155
I'd like to see a Democrat president try to stop CCrew after how heavily publicized the first launch was.

>>11818161
Well, he's overseen the success of Commercial Crew (yes, it was proposed under Bush, started under Obama, but because it was completed under Trump it will be associated with his admin), Pence pushed NASA to restart the work towards developing a spaceworthy Nuclear rocket, the objective of establishing a permanent human presence on the Moon was proposed under this admin, the commercial lander competition has started under this admin, and NASA's budget was doubled under this admin.
In the end it's not necessarily about what Trump has actually done, but what he's seen to be associated with, anything associated with him would be attacked by a Democrat president because they would have to do so to secure support from the rest of the party at this point.
That's the problem with inviting civilization hating commie welfare leeches and starbucks marxists into your party leadership.

>>11818161
Just look at the mess the last 3+ years have been, there is literally not a low on Earth a Democrat won't stoop to if it allows them to attack Drumple Blumpf.

>>11818181
The Space Stuff that happened under Trump isn’t really talked about in the media that much, as a result it isn’t really associated with him that much.

>>11818177
that's the problem with having politics involved in anything. i just hope spacex can distance themselves enough from it that the early nasa collaborations dont come back to bit them in the ass.
maybe thats why bo is staying out of anything until they have a launch vehicle that is dependant on no state agency.
>>11818181
i have no skin in the game beyond wanting to see us off earth. trump is and was before this to me a total fucking idiot. his opposite the same. and it looks like it's going to be the same again this time. i honestly hate politics.

>>11818183
Hopefully it won't be a problem, I legitimately don't think Biden's brain has enough horsepower left to get him through an election.
>>11818191
Governments in general are trash at running essentially anything, space is not their forte and I also hope that the private space industry will eventually be able to divorce itself mostly from political squabbling on Earth. Independence for Mars soon, day of the rock soon after.

>>11818161
How new here are you. He installed the best Administrator of the century Based Jim Bridenstein. Shook up NASAs mission brief to be about reaching the moon and to aim for Mars with the Artemis program. A program that gave the US government a good way to hand Starship 300+ million dollars for development.

He unified the US militaries space assets into the USSF, increasing their overall budget and getting rid of inter service rivalry/bureaucracy. There's probably far more we'll learn about in 30 years. As much as liberals ree I'm sure DARPA and the CIA love Trump.

I am ProTrump but the Space Sector is a litmus test for a Liberals credibility. If they suggest he has not been good for NASA/SpaceX and spaceflight in general they are ignorant or totally echochambered.

>space news gets an interview with space force research team
>research team dodges any questions about weapons capabilities
It's going to become a meme at this point that the Space Force can't actually fight in a war.

>>11818191
good for you because trump has a good chance at reelection in november depending on how things pan out. there's a lot of white people feeling very uncomfortable that will probably turn out to vote. meanwhile, all the 20-something libs won't bother to get out of bed because they're lazy kids

I'm skeptical that a biden admin would go actually be that terrible for NASA. most of what they've been doing was started under Obama, and Artemis is a natural continuation of commercial crew, so I doubt they'll cancel it

>>11818203
They get briefed before the interview.

Space Force is trying to play down it's Military aspects to dissuade the public and media from pillorying them as the 'tyrannical militarisation of space'. They're mostly Reconnaissance and have been winning wars since 1990.

>>11818203
Modern space warfare is fought from the ground. Shoot enemy sat down, spy on enemy anti-sat missile. Repeat

>>11818203
Link?

>>11818202
>the Space Sector is a litmus test for a Liberals credibility
Solid point, as much as I hated Dubya as an edgy teen, even then I still thought "Well at least Constellation will be pretty cool so he's not ALL bad".

Is it true they are considering just launching the ICPS on Falcon Heavy?

>>11818206
how could they at this point? yes it's not my tax money but even if it is a joke just do the thing, maybe lessons will be learned.

>>11818226
Considering, but may not be likely. SpaceX and ULA/Boeing/Lockheed would need to work together. Its not going to happen due to bad relationship between oldspace and SpaceX.

>>11818230
An immense amount of people on a subconscious level still do not believe in space. Not even Flat Earther edgy types. Dissinterested normies that would cheer to hear anything that isn't healthcare or Foreign aid get seriously defunded.

>>11818214
Not really

>spy satellite spies enemy military base
>GPS satellites guide PGM onto target

You don't get kinetic stuff doing from space to earth, but ISR and guidance absolutely does.

>>11818236
hey at least your country gets to have this conversation. i'm in the uk and there is no, 0, nothing, that is space orientated and physical. it's all welfare and foreign aid.

>>11818218
https://spacenews.com/planting-the-seeds-of-technology-for-the-future-space-force/

>>11818212
> Space Force is trying to play down it's Military aspects to dissuade the public and media from pillorying them as the 'tyrannical militarisation of space'. They're mostly Reconnaissance and have been winning wars since 1990.
This sounds reasonable, but they're going to have to show some teeth eventually.

>>11818226
It would require substantial launch pad modification which is something not often mentioned, and the mass of that second stage is right at the edge of Falcon Heavy's maximum theoretical payload capacity. It's also quite long, I've flown rockets like it in KSP but I'm not sure it would work in real life. Two major considerations are the center of mass of the vehicle once the boosters and core start running on empty, and the max-Q imparted by such a large fairing on the core stage.
If the CoM is too high, the rocket will tumble and end up flying backwards as the core stage runs out of propellant, if the Max-Q is too high then the whole rocket will crumple like a stomped beer can early in flight.
It would be hilarious too, SLS and Boing! engineers would commit honorable suicide after being so badly humiliated.

>>11818015
Umm... maybe because Mars is in SPACE? And there's no sound in SPACE?
Dumbass.

>>11818241
The UK is talking about building spaceports tho? And there was a small rocket launch recently too.

>>11818247

>>11818249
the uk talks about lots of things, and mid conversation the companies involved get so fed up they fuck off state side.

>>11818247
Retard, Earth is in space... I guess there’s no sound here either.

>>11818241
Actually I'm in Northern Ireland. I don't remember the numbers offhand now but this video is worth your time. It will cheer you up immensely.
youtube.com/watch?v=KF0foFHuqYQ&list=FLR-Ub3fgaQwjHM8b9Uc-D4A
Britain has a solid share in the Satellite industry and remains a big player in ESA. We have Spaceports coming at Newquay in Cornwall and at least one in Scotland where Skyrora has successfully launched rockets this year and will continue to do so. We've also relaxed laws that might have stimied SpaceX and other US private entities efforts to launch/land to/from the UK.

Being British is what gave me that impression because anything cool here is swept under the rug and kept secret so the voterbase don't shriek that the money should be dumped into the NHS shitpit.

>>11818242
Thanks.

>>11818255
i'll watch it but remain sceptical. and the esa is fucking useless, it's the met office if the met office had a launch vehicle.

>>11818254
Umm... retard much? Earth is on Earth, Mars is in space.

>>11818262
We call dirt 'earth', would we call Mars-dirt 'mars'?

>>11818266
Regolith.

>>11818266
Let me break it down for you: We have sound on Earth because we're on the Earth. In space, we have no sound. Space suits and the ISS have sound because they were filled with air on Earth. On Mars, there is no air to hold sound, hence it is in space.

>>11818271
Okay but I asked about dirt.
>>11818267
Everywhere off-Earth? I thought only Moon-dirt was regolith.

>>11818261
Honestly things aren't so bad if you just open your mind and look for the positive. Skyrora is great. I mean we will be able to go watch launches within the next few years. That's alot more than I would have expected even 5 years ago.

It's a trickle down industry and the advances in the US will start a gold rush that the UK definitely won't let slip by. We also have a Lunar walker landing on the Moon next year. That's pretty cool.

>>11818275
>the layer of unconsolidated solid material covering the bedrock of a planet
for maximum autism you can ask your neighbour what kind of regolith they grown their tomatoes in.

>>11818275

>>11818271
You can hear shit on Mars dumbass, you’re just trying to be edgy and contrarian

>>11818271
>Let me break it down for you: We have sound on Earth because we're on the Earth.
Something tells you you may not be a scientist.

>>11818287
>>11818292
is this your first day on 4chan?

>>11818285
>>11818286
Huh, didn't know that, I thought it was just the shitty sharp glass stuff on the Moon but I guess it's a catch-all term for any/all dirt.

>>11818287
>knows nothing about space
>posting on /sfg/
did you even complete the tutorial?

>>11818287
>>11818292
>falling for obvious bait
The absolute state of you

Maybe there won't be a cybertruck rover, but will SpaceX make pressurized rovers that have a stainless steel exoskeleton like frame? Starship and the Cybertruck share a similar production process that would carry into their rovers.

>>11818295
>>11818303
>>11818306
Have three (you)s at the same time dumbass

>>11818313

>>11818309
I'm willing to bet that NASA will want to produce their own rovers, at least on early missions. They've been researching rover concepts pretty hard for a long time

>>11818309
It's a massive PR stunt to pass up on. On both sides more normies follow Tesla news than SpaceX by a considerable margin and it would sell a lot of Cybertrucks.

>>11818309
yea probably. oldskool is the new cool. fuck your fancy manufacturing techniques.

>>11818309
They will probably re-use some of their experience from tesla, but probably not stainless steel as its advantages aren't realy at normal temperatures.
Starship is made from stainless as it gets stronger at cryogenic temperatures and tolerates high temperatures.

>>11818309
there will almost certainly be a cybertruck on Mars, maybe even the moon. I have no doubt that cybertruck exists solely because Musk wanted to start prototyping a rover.

>>11818309
Even if they don;t use cybertruck as a basis I absolutely believe moving forward Elon will be pressuring his teams to apply stressed skin stainless steel construction as much as possible. It's cheap, easy, and fast and he's clearly excited about it.

>>11818309
It makes sense, with Starship's payload capacity there's no reason to build tiny aluminum pipe framed open cab rovers. A solid steel origami rover is much cheaper to manufacture, less machining, material is much cheaper and much more durable, and yes existing manufacturing techniques can be used so that production can start quickly. I don't see why you couldn't modify a cybertruck into a rover though, use a larger sheet of steel and make it essentially a big block, instead of a bed just make that back space an airlock. The lock doors themselves will have to be made and installed separately but the frame will be cheap and use mostly the same process as an existing vehicle.
You could also just make it an open cab rover and use that whole rear bed to store a large breathing air supply and a bunch of gear.
Since it could tow a fucking building with such high torque engines in lunar gravity, just attach your habitat to it with a hitch and you can have a mobile lunar hab,

>>11818327
>not stainless steel as its advantages aren't realy at normal temperatures
Earth normal temperatures are not normal. Mars is usually downright cryogenic, on the moon you get to choose between that and boiling. Besides, having a wide range of temperatures that don't fuck up your structure is good absolutely everywhere.

>>11818348
The rover itself will be close to earths ambient temperatures, othewise the electronics don't work.

>>11818363
Which is why insulation and radiators exist.
The outer skin is still going to fluctuate in temperature unless you engage in some hyperautism that ruins the energy budget.

>>11818348
>>11818363
insulating the electronics isn’t hard, we did in in the 70s

>>11818247
Mars has an atmosphere and therefore sound.
Sounds can transfer through the vacuum of space in the infrasound range

>>11818271
>On Mars, there is no air

Yes there is. Mars has a thin but significant atmosphere primarily composed of CO2

How are you people getting baited this fucking hard?

>>11818514
How are you so retarded?

>>11818514
Fuck this general, no one’s been talking about aerospace for the past few days. It’s either been BLM shit or people baiting, and then autistic people like you talking about said bait

spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace

>>11818529
BLM in Spaaaaaaaace

>>11818529
Slow space news day + US dominant event on US dominant site

>>11818529
Less bitching, more space flight.

>>11818561

>>11818564

>>11818566

>>11818564
>throws 80% of the rocket away
>reusable
YIKES

>>11818570
Probably the best they could come up with in a post-Shuttle pre-Falcon time. Anything more ambitious would immediately draw parallels to the Shuttle without anything better to compare it to.

Plus, there's other better concepts floating around.

>>11818574
The European Not-Falcon is quite a copy.

>>11818568

>>11818576
I'll take Europe copying the Falcon 9 over them being willfully ignorant of reusable boosters.

>>11818570
Fuel tanks are the cheapest part

>>11818529
Slow month causes that
>>11818564
I can see the logic they followed to reach this concept, but after F9 there's not much of a point on following it unless you can make the tanks extremely cheap

Which SN is gonna hop? One of the, was getting the nosecone put on, right?

>>11818591
We waitin on SN7(repaired) to do another pop test. SN5/SN6 are ready for action as they're stacked up, we'll just have to see how SN7(again) will do.

>>11818596
They repaired SN7? I thought that was scrap, when's next pop test or do we now know yet?
Also if anyone has a .slt for any of the SN prototypes I want 'em for my shelf, wanna start putting together an evolutionary line for Starship.

>>11817914
Good thing he will.

>>11818605
>They repaired SN7?
They're repairing. Hasn't completed repair yet. It was just a small leak anyway.

>>11818617
Nice, hopefully hop to follow bop.

>>11818615
Not sure if I’m so optimistic, but I appreciate your optimism

>>11818583
Wrong, tank structures are the cost and time bottleneck; if an engine costs as much or more than the tanks, it's because the engine cost ballooned to take advantage of the already expensive tanks.

The Shuttle external tank cost more than an entire Falcon 9 for example.

>>11818649
>The Shuttle external tank cost more than an entire Falcon 9 for example.

Yeah but that was the Space Shuttle and hydrolox

>>11818576
can’t wait for the European not-Starship

>>11818657
In our lifetimes shiny steel rockets will land on their fins, my robot housemaid will be here any day now!

>>11818681
Buy a roomba.

>>11818654
>Yeah but that was the Space Shuttle and hydrolox
It was a single tank (well two, because bipropellants, but whatever) and it cost over $70 million. It was made of the exact same alloys that Falcon 9 uses for its tanks, except it was designed without any consideration for reuse.
Sure, Shuttle was super expensive so maybe it doesn't make the best comparison, so have a look at Atlas V instead.
We know that ULA pays somewhere between 10 and 25 million dollars for each RD-180 they buy, and we know that an Atlas 401 (no solids, 4 meter fairing, single engine Centaur upper stage) is priced at $109 million. Let's be generous and say that fully half of the cost of the rocket is the 2nd stage and fairings. That means that the tanks on the first stage are between 54% and 81.6% of the cost of the rocket.
This makes sense, because unlike Spacex's more radical approach of doing the simplest and more effective structural design possible (via rapid prototyping) for Starship, most rocket tanks are actually extremely precision engineered pieces of hardware that are carefully manufactured by hand with extreme, autistic focus on minimizing mass at any cost. For Atlas and Delta and Vulcan, ULA puts huge slabs of aluminum into gigantic milling machines and meticulously carves out isogrids, before moving the entire slab over to a manually controlled bump press that two operators use to bend them to the exact curve necessary in order to assemble several of those curved slabs into a cylinder.

Why is ULA setting up their rocket now, and fueling it up with RP-1. Its June 20th and the launch is a month away... does it just sit there for a month exposed to the elements?! I noticed this with DM-2 as well, they just let the rocket sit there for a long time out in the open.

>>11818900
Let’s the rocket marinade to get a smokey exhaust flavor

>>11818591
>prooooonting
here we go

>>11818900
It's so they have time to do final checks of the assembled rocket, iirc.

>>11818784
>We know that ULA pays somewhere between 10 and 25 million dollars for each RD-180 they buy
jesus what?

>>11818994
Yeah this is the tweet that made me question it hahah
>>11819013
Yeah the russians are crazy, but there engines are really fucking good. I’m pretty sure the US gov’t. gets pretty pissed at ULA for relying on them, and there were (maybe still are?) plane of building new rd-180’s here in America

>>11819024
>plane of building new rd-180’s here in America
why wouldn’t the ULA build them here, after all the patent probably expired now and they can’t be hard to reverse engineer.

>>11819024
20 mil for something you're ditching is unacceptable. same for the tanks. fuck oldspace.

>>11818247
>>11818262
based and redpilled
>>11818254
>>11818493
cringe autists

>>11819044
Oh honey, has no one told you about the price of a new RS-25 once they get production restarted?

>>11819059
open source the design i bet it would drop to below 1 million.
>oh it's so much more complicated that any other high tolerance engine once r&d is done
fuck off

>>11819068
>open source the design i bet it would drop to below 1 million.
Can't be done due to ITAR. That's why oldspace was such a cartel, you could only beat them by raw innovation and nobody had the capital to start from scratch until recently.

>>11819073
run of the mill ice engine plants the world over put together (with differing rates of success admittedly) hundreds of thousands of complex precision machines every year with warranties stretching into several years. and some cunt wants to tell me this design if put out to competitive tender would cost 20 mil. it's fucking bonkers and so is ula and nasa.

>>11819040
The old reasoning was
>engines are in part engineered to use black magic, and it's impossible to perfectly replicate a pre-existing engine, so any engine developed based on the RD-180 would in effect be totally brand new, in which case it wouldn't really be a replacement for the Rd-180 now would it? We'd need to redevelop Atlas and so forth to even use it etc blah blah
However, given that SpaceX was able to develop themselves an engine that uses a more complex combustion cycle and a far less explored propellant combination, involving alloys and materials that they also needed to develop from scratch in order to handle more corrosive environments than inside the RD-180, I call bullshit on the oldspace argument. They simply didn't want to bother spending the money to develop themselves an engine when they could buy something from Russia instead. There's also the fact that keeping the engineers that build RD-180s employed by effectively guaranteeing them annual revenue means that they don't fuck off to China and start building them their own updated RD-180 style engines instead.
The only reason things are changing now is because Russia finally managed to piss of an old guy in the US government who had enough power to push through a bill tat would require the RD-180 to be replaced, no matter if that were by replicating the design or going with something totally new instead, whatever the consequences. Because of that, Vulcan is now going to use BE-4 engines by blue origin, because they'll be much cheaper than whatever price Aerojet would've quoted for their AR1 engine (and of course they'd be done a decade sooner).

>>11819098
True. Even with Blue Origin having nothing under their belt, I still trust them to deliver a cheaper and better engine compared to oldspace. The absolute state of spaceflight right now

>>11819068
I'm not disagreeing with you that throwing away million dollar hardware is insane.
I'm merely pointing out the fact that the RS-25E (the new, cheaper redesigned version meant for expendable use only) will cost $150 MILLION per engine. About 10x that of the RD-180, and about 75 to 150 times more expensive than production Raptor (which is a fair comparison because the $150 million figure is also for production RS-25E).
>muh efficiency though
Yeah, if your four anemic first stage engines get a whopping 360 to 453 Isp from sea level to vacuum, require boosters to actually get off the pad, and deliver a maximum of ~100 tons to LEO in the Block 1B version (with its correctly scaled upper stage), and for the same expense on RS-25s alone you could buy 240 Raptor engines, which means you could build a rocket with 100 Raptors across two stages and probably get north of 600 tons to LEO for LESS launch cost, then what the FUCK is the advantage of having more Isp?

>>11819092
>and some cunt wants to tell me this design if put out to competitive tender would cost 20 mil. it's fucking bonkers and so is ula and nasa.
Any rocket engine that costs more than $5 million and isn't a nuclear thermal rocket is a scam product for farming government money.
That being said, RS-25 will cost $150 million. It's the case study of overpriced overcomplicated bullshit engineering.

>>11819121
It’s just embarrassing at this point. It would be more worthwhile to invest in R&D for an aerospike engine that ran on liquid platinum and gold. Hydrogen is so stupid. And the price we’re paying for an expendable engine for a shitty rocket that’s behind schedule is unacceptable

>>11819121
>>11819137
think of the shit nasa could do if they put that money alone into actually science and just used the likes of spacex, or in the future bo or whoever. it's totally nuts.

>>11819141
>And the price we’re paying for an expendable engine for a shitty rocket that’s behind schedule is unacceptable
SLS is a jobs program first and a rocket second. They'll still be inching towards launch for the next 50 years.

Reminder, if you're a space fan, you should be watching Space Force the Netflix show. Its pretty based. Nothing over the top in terms of politics, as people might have feared. This might have riled up some liberals hoping for it to be anti-Trump satire. Still a decent satire.

>>11818155
You mean like how Trump scrapped everything Obama did?

>>11819193
Yes.

What if what Musk saying cybertruck is the official truck of mars is just marketing?

>>11819215
Everything Musk says is marketing. He’s pretty good at hype if you haven’t noticed.

>>11819215
duh

>>11819178
>The year is 2100
>A Starship 2.0 celebrates its 1 millionth reusable flight
>Founding city on Mars reaches 1 billion in population
>O'neill cylinder all around the solar system, Bezos even has one all for himself
>SLS still hasn't launched
>Fusion is still only 20 years away

>>11819215
He's one of only a handful of people on the planet with the actual capability to send anything at all to Mars. Why not send his own trucc?

>>11819222
>Fusion is still only 20 years away

>>11819222
>fusion happened
>it was some guy in his shed that did it
>chemical rockets are obsolete
>sls still hasn't launched

>>11819215
All of Elon's companies are designed to further Mars exploration.
>satellite internet and Starship funding
>rovers
>tunnels

>>11817850
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar-us-nasa-m113-armored-rescuer/

>>11819233
I legit think this is going to happen. All these big ass companies and billion dollar research efforts get BTFO by some grungy dude in his garage.

>>11819240
it can't really happen now because the base level to even attempt stuff is so high you'd need to be a billionaire but the industrial revolution was essentially dudes in sheds with a hobby.
i'd love to imagine a future where welding crafts together in small shops akin to guys who build custom cars now was the norm.
>yea we've taking this ford fusion reactor and added 4 turbos and now it can pull 15g till you pass out lol

pimp my rocket
we've taken this 2090s shuttle and put a holodeck and a ps18 in the fucking airlock.

>>11819260
Lockheed Martin is pretty much brute forcing by having dozens of grungy dudes in dozens of garages try to independently come up with a feasible device. Testament to the desperation of industry but also an indicator that is indeed possible to have an independent or start up company come up with something.

Threadlike reminder that Mars will never be green. We’re gonna make that bitch glow bright red as a foundry planet.

>>11819279
nah it'll become steel gray from the Elongrad ecumonopolis

>>11817850
because FREEDOM! USA! USA! YEEHAW!1!

>>11819279
the ultimate goal is to disassemble all mass in the solar system bar the sun into billions of habitats housing trillions of humans.

>>11818989
Nah that's the guy who talked shit about the proonterposter by flexing his printed dragon capsule he good

https://youtu.be/emzROzHwsSk

>>11819180
Watched it all. AntiSpace shite. Funny at times but completely forgettable. The moon camo uniforms were a strong redeeming feature but wouldn’t recommend it to anyone.

slow day for space flight broes...

>>11819328
>spitballing for discussion
arcjet out of an amazon chinesium tig welder?

>>11819279
FUCK terries

>>11819222
Checked, and speaking of fusion. Which kind of fusion engine would be the most feasible? I heard that some combination of magnetic and inertially confined is the way to go.

>>11819363
If we can find a cheap way to produce a shitload of muons (basically heavy electrons) then we’ve hit the jackpot. Muons catalyze fusion reactions, and 1 muon has the ability to catalyze 100-200 individual atomic reactions.

>>11819337
take one of those 1000 amp industrial welders and make a railgun out of it

>>11817814
today officially marks 6 months since the space force was founded. What do you guys think so far.

>>11817899
>TAKE THE FUCKING SHOT!

>>11819234
Tesla has a great capacity for making rovers yes, but cybertruck is a shit design for a rover.

Reminder that buttplug faggot still hasn't shown the radiation figures and his colonists will get blasted by GCRs 24/7.

>>11818222
not to bash obama hard, but he truly was one of the worst presidents we have ever had for space. constant scrapped projects, delays out the ass, and a disproportionate amount of earth science missions.

>>11819384
Its literally nothing, just a reorganisation of existing assets. Maybe they will buy some starships to drop space bombs on brown people for Israel though.

>>11819363
Sheared-flow stabilized Z-pinch is promising right now.

>>11819397
Don't summon it, I would rather shitpost about absolutely nothing than have this discussion again

when?

>>11819363
We can only tell when fusion is archived and wekind of figured it out for the most part.
As of now we don't even know how to make it work in the first place, much less how to tap off some fusion products or channel them out at high velocity.

>>11819405
>hey guys
>what if we simplify the mission by not digging trenches
>instead we can 3D print houses using complicated machines
>and then feed those machines dirt by using
>digging machines
>ain't that the superior way of doing things?

What’s the most isolated -but still inhabitable- celestial body in our solar system?

I wanna see separatists get the fuck way from literally everyone and watch their culture develop.

Will they be religious fanatics? Political dissidents? Exiles? Prisoners?

>>11819426
>What’s the most isolated -but still inhabitable- celestial body in our solar system?
Earth.

>>11819426
define "in our solar system"

>>11819426
Earth is the only readily inhabitable planet in the system, every other body in the solar system will require at least the same amount of work as any other (except delta-V requirements). All of them need power supplies from somewhere else, all of them need enough supplies to create a sustainable artificial biosphere, all of them need pressurized habitats with environment control and thermoregulation.
Where non-Earthers live will only be restricted by whether or not you can get a colony ship to the object you want to live on. If you have the Delta-V, you can colonize an Oort Cloud object, or Planet X (assuming it's there) and that would probably be about as isolated from the rest of the system as you can be without just flinging yourself into interstellar space.

>>11819426
There are no inhabitable celestial body besides earth at the moment.
Though there are ones that could support a base to some lesser degree.

>>11819426
Sorry commie the USSF will deploy mag sail warships to your little Nazi colony, only liberal democracies are allowed in this solar system.

>>11819426
Anywhere is habitable.
But one of those weird little bodies a few kilometers in diameter that orbit the sun in a polar or even retrograde orbit would be ideal if you want to be left alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_MM4

>>11819443
>There are no inhabitable celestial body besides earth at the moment

Just dig a hole idiot.

>>11819452
Based digger

>>11819426
The frontier of space is going to feel pretty isolated no matter what, light lag is a bitch even as far as Mars. The most extreme form of separatism would be to amass enough raw materials to survive a few thousand years or w/e and fuck off to another system entirely.

>>11819452
There is no other body in the solar system with a breathable thmosphere.
Habitability would be a stretch, it could as I said support a base to a limited degree.

>>11819460
Unfortunately someone else will beat you to it if you are taking that long.

>>11819462
> There is no other body in the solar system with a breathable thmosphere

Yeah so just make a pressurized box and go into it.

>Habitability would be a stretch, it could as I said support a base to a limited degree.

Limited? You could dig a sprawling underground city or paraterraform the entire body.

>>11819467
Call them in for a tow then

>>11819473
That's almost like building a space station.

>>11819477
>bro I know I'm only going 0.2%c but could you drop down from 30%c to give us a tow? Cheers cunts

>>11819482
Yeah

>>11819480
Kinda; but you have much easier access to resources, and constructing more habitable space is easier and actually produces more resources than it takes. If the body is especially small, you can do a hop to wherever you need to go on the surface using at most a few hundred ms/s of delta/v.

>>11819488
And that's exactly what I meant with supporting a base to a limited degree.

>>11819482
Hey man it’d be worth it to make some space friends. You could make an interstellar convoy

>>11819505
Doesn’t sound like a bad idea. You could keep eachother company while you cross the Great Darkness together

>>11819505
>>11819485
>sorry lol no delta v see you in 2800 years

>>11819518
>the guys with the next gen engines have enough dV to spare and still get there quicker
>on the way there we made some improvements and will fuck off again from the next system at maximum plaid

>>11819515
Imagine you’re part of a convoy traveling at 0.2c to a nearby star system. Your convoy just passed a slow ass generational ship that launched 100 years earlier with inferior technology. Hahahah idiots, we only have to wait 40 years. Wait- what’s that?! Someone just passed us by with a fusion-powered alcubierre drive and they're towing the voyager 1 probe for clout NOOOO WE GOT TOO COCKY BROS

>>11817850
>>11819238
these are explosion resistant vehicles and allow medics to be closer at hand should there be an unplanned disassembly

>>11819528
I do wonder if we’ll eventually pick Voyager back up or let her sail away

>>11819528
They've gone to plaid!

>>11819528
I wonder how long it’ll be before some teenagers get in their dad’s interceptor to find voyager 1 and fuck with it

Inb4 it gets graffiti’d for being a relic of the age of racism

>>11819536
Damn we might one day get some angsty teens who will spray paint over the apollo 11 site and fuck up neil’s footsteps because “it was von braun’s work”
fuck our gay society, these people shouldn’t be allowed to leave LEO

>>11819536
Might become difficult to find. It’s only a few meters in diameter, and the RTGs will become insufficient to keep the computer working within ten years or so; and god knows how much a galactic orbit can be perturbed.

>>11819543
Good luck, the Moon will be a US outpost at that point and all of the historically relevant shit will be gated off and heavily monitored

>>11819551
I think there was a giftshop near it in Futurama

>>11819532
Just make sure you don't pick up Voyager 6 by accident.

>>11819543
>>11819551
Yeah in all likelihood by the time space vandalism is possible we could have automated security bots keeping that shit in check. Apollo 11 site will be preserved for thousands and thousands of years

>>11819558
Heh, we’ll just see about that “oath of celibacy” now, V’ger

>>11819240
You can’t do super conductors in your garage....

>>11819551
Like your historically relevant monuments you are doing such a fantastic job of preserving

>>11819572
wrong

>>11819576
Random vandalism isn't the same as a """movement""". To get us there we need
>a bunch of spacenoids organizing a mass chimpout on the fucking Moon against the apollo missions
which sounds hilarious desu

>>11819612
There’ll be protests over the rights of genetically engineered cyborgs by then. Death to baseline rotters!

>>11819612
>a bunch of spacenoids organizing a mass chimpout on the fucking Moon against the apollo missions
Not again Von Braun city, but the earth sphere goverment I guess...

How can a black hole have a magnetic field???

>>11819644
It don't, accretion disk do

>>11817899
reticle should be centered on the second stage

>>11818202
>Based Jim Brindestein
it's Brindestine, he's no jew. Also thread theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJEBgjQIekE

>>11819677
*Bridenstine, fuck

redpill me on hypergolic vs kerolox/hydrolox upper stages

>>11819688
>hypergolic upper stage
I'm dirt poor
>kerolox upper stage
I'm watching the budget
>hydrolox upper stage
haha budget expand

>>11819692
how about if you need multiple ignitions on your upper stage?

>>11819688
Hypergols are denser generally and don't require cryogenic cooling, in that sense they're easier to store and you can fit more explode into a smaller bottle with them. They are however fundamentally highly unstable and will instantly react with one another on contact, the fuel element will also often at least fume if not outright ignite on contact with ambient air as well. Most hypergols are also extremely poisonous, often in multiple ways, which make them fundamentally badly suited to operation around humans.
Kerolox is stable and liquid at room temperature, will not spontaneously ignite on contact with oxygen, and does not demand cryogenic cooling, it does however degrade over time and it's quite expensive at rocketry grade. The purer it needs to be the more expensive it becomes. It's got good density and thus allows for relatively svelte rockets. It's not poisonous as such, although you obviously wouldn't want to drink it.
Hydrolox burns more efficiently but less forcefully (for mass unit of propellants burnt) due to it's much lower density, it requires both intensive cryogenic cooling and heavy insulating to prevent it from boiling into hydrogen gas, it also badly wears any tankage or plumbing which works with it due to hydrogen's tendency to work it's way into other materials at high pressure, this is called hydrogen embrittelement and is one reason why hydrolox rockets have poor reuse potential. It's also very expensive to manufacture, due to purification, chilling and storage considerations.

>>11817850
>>11819238
to get the astronauts the hell out of dodge while protecting them from falling debris, fire, and explosions in case something goes horribly wrong.

>>11819702
Hypergolic is the easiest relight since they don't need to do anything but say hello to each other, followed by kerolox, followed by hydrolox.

>>11819373
>If we can find a cheap way to produce a shitload of muons
It has nothing to do with expense, you either need a fusion fuel cycle that auto-generates its own muons through ultra high energy gamma ray interactions (probably not possible) or a very efficient method of generating muons inside a fusion plasma (basically the same thing, fire a super high energy gamma ray laser into your plasma, again probably not possible).

>>11819688
hydrolox really is amazing for ultra high energy targets. The centaur upper stage has an incredible isp and propellant mass ratio, and has enabled all of the outer solar system singlehandedly enabled exploration of the outer solar system.

Even if Starship flies I really think SLS will have a future tossing up probes to neptune/uranus on ultra high energy direct insertions. EUS + a kicker stage could offer insane C3 performance which SpaceX could never match with keralox. Mobile Launcher 2 is even going to be capable of handling a liquid fueled third stage, on top of ICPS/EUS.

>>11819722
Yeah I guess that was an oversight in my original post. I should have said
>We need a way, in general, to create lots of muons
I’m pretty sure as of right now we don’t know how to make them in abundance, apart from a few in a particle reactor

>>11819732
>multibillion dollar one or two launch a year expendable fuel bucket
If you've got that much of a hydrolox boner it still unironically makes more sense to send the fuel up as spare capacity aboard Starship. While you're at it bring up an NTR so you have a halfway decent use for it.

Trump is shitting on Boing! at the rally right now.

>>11819784
No way someone clip this

>>11819795
https://youtu.be/p3jkf0LjPjw
Rewind a few minutes, he was shitting on them for the AF1 contract and the 737-MAX.

>>11819752
your refueled keralox starship will still be incapable of ultra high energy insertions. I believe SLS 1B + centaur + star48 was studied for insane C3 performance.

>>11819784
Holy FUCKING based!

>>11819801
How deep in oldspace do you need to be to not realize Starship is methalox, not keralox? And I wasn't saying use it for methalox or keralox, I was saying if you really want to cart hydrolox fuel into orbit to do high energy insertions you should be using Starship to cart the fuel and using an NTR instead of chemical hydrolox.

>>11819426
I bet that in a completely colonized solar system, Mercury would be really special. It's a frontier in the sense that you can't be closer to the Sun. Delta-V requirements are a PITA, there's energy and minerals readily available. Living there will require crazy engineering (in the Mars trilogy, they live in a moving city on rails to stay at the terminator).

>>11819801
Starship is methalox dumbass

>>11819801
Deep space probes are useless

>>11819898
Is the mars trilogy worth picking up? I don’t read much but i’m looking for something to get into after finishing LOTR

>>11819295
I got the trunk done too.

>>11819898
>Delta-V requirements are a PITA

It takes more delta/v to reach Mercury than to enter the interstellar void

>>11819911
I'd like to know too, heard they're good. Gonna recommend Rendezvouz with Rama in any case though.

rate my overly complex reusable falcon heavy/delta IV heavy mutt, now featuring the petal adaptor meme from >>11818574 bros

>>11819911
Some characters are annoying, but other than that, it's pretty great. It's basically how a place where there is nothing becomes an actual civilization, and all the consequences, problems, etc. it implies.

Rally is still going. Trump confirmed MARS is an election issue now.

>>11819543
By the time there are teens wondering around the Apollo 11 site, the twentieth century will be ancient history, no one is denouncing Jealous Caesar because he owned slaves. He’s too old for people to care.
>>11819732
At least this means that the money spent on SLS wasn’t wasted.
>>11819898
Mercury will likely be a mining/scientific outpost, I doubt it would develop into an independent nation state, unlike a colony that’s an O’Neil Cylinder orbiting Planet 9 (assuming it exists) such a colony would likely be so weird due to distance that given time they might not even be considered human.

>>11819934
Let’s just hope that CNN doesn’t pick it up and Biden stars supporting the opposite position.

>>11819919
Looking very nice Anon, stats? Payload?

>>11818574
>>11819919
Yeah I was wondering about those pedals. To me that drawing implies the pedals have a dual role, faring / grid fin aerodynamic substitute. Is this right?

>>11819934
oh god why did he have to open his fat fucking mouth. now the dems will cancel the future of mankind bc it's too conservative

>>11819979
You're assuming they will win. They won't.

>>11819979
Just tell them they can have space-communism if they support Mars, then leave 'em behind or space any who insist on tagging along.

>>11819981
I agree. my gut is telling me this is a clear republican year. imagine all the uncomfortable white people who have never voted before turning out after seeing videos of statues coming down. i guess i'm fine with low IQ conservative policy for 4 years if it gets us to the moon again

I feel like no matter what the left wing is going to be anti space colonization because they'll say we're entitled to the resources of the solar system and it mirrors colonial imperialism and we should leave "nature" alone etc

>>11820004
Well then it's a very good thing Elon-chan is building launch platforms that can be placed in international waters, isn't it?

>>11819911
Its fun but there is an unreal amount of verbal diarrhea to wade through. Easily half the text is just internal monologues waffling about inconsequential bullshit.

>>11820011
I hope to god the private space industry takes off ASAP. I think we all have a feeling this ship is going down so we should get people off world quickly

>>11820011
SpaceX will remain a domestic entity and their rockets and tech will remain under ITAR no matter where they launch from. Regardless, while it would suck to see Jim and the commercial-friendly stance of NASA go but SpaceX is out of the cradle now. They'll keep moving forward.

>>11819951
the whole thing is only about about 30m tall with 2.5m tanks, but it gets around 15 tons to low orbit with 6.4x rescale
boosters have 4x merlin 1Bs, and upper stage has 5x superdracos because FUCK trying to get into just the orbit you want with KSP controls in a single burn

>>11819977
that's the idea, ingame they don't actually do anything except look cool since they don't have aerodynamic controls and stage recovery mod handles the boosters fine without them

>>11820027
earth will be fine in the long run, especially if we get colonies going, but it's definitely going to be a little bumpy for a while

>>11820034
Explain ITAR to me and it’s implications. Once Musk self-funds SpaceX either through personal wealth and/or Starlink funds, is he not free to keep everything internal and just launch his own colony to Mars?

>>11820036
No matter which way you spin it resource constraints are setting in. First world countries have the capital and resources to adjust to pretty much anything, but the world as a whole is not looking so hot

Mass agriculture is unsustainable for more than a few decades without major practice changes (topsoil loss etc.), freshwater resources are dwindling at a frightening rate, unrest is rising globally, economic inequality is increasing like crazy (this will cause cyclical political strife and revolutions), inflation is much worse than the governments act like it is, an all those 'developing' countries are starting to realize that 8+ billion humans aren't able to enjoy the first world quality of life they see on the internet. The times they are a changin

we'll be ok though

>>11820043
>Explain ITAR to me and it’s implications.
ITAR is a US law that restricts exports of militarily significant technologies, including everything SpaceX makes. The definition of what is considered "an export" is broad enough that new employees at ITAR companies get specific training on this. So long as he launches from the US and only hires US citizens or green card holders, he's fine under ITAR. It doesn't give the feds the right to shut him down for no reason, only to stop him going somewhere else if they pass a law giving themselves that right.

>>11820043
He more or less is, yes. That has nothing to do with launching from international waters, though. Everything SpaceX does is subject to proper procedure back in the US, whether it's FAA applications for launch or FCC applications for communications, etc. As for ITAR it limits what SpaceX can do with their rockets for national security reasons, ie it is chink spy defence

>>11820048
>First world countries have the capital and resources to adjust to pretty much anything, but the world as a whole is not looking so hot
Fuck niggers lmao. If the third world collapses we'll all be better off.

>>11820043
It exists to restrict the distribution and dissemination of defense/military related technologies as a safeguard to US interests and National Security. Basically, the kind of technology used to build superior commercial rockets (better structural materials, better engines, better avionics and guidance systems, etc) can also be used by competitor nations to build ICBMs, IRBMs and SRBMs which could more easily compete directly with US military technology. As a result commercial rocketry funded and based in the US cannot share all of their technology freely with anybody who wants it, nor can they just hire any rando from any part of the world to work with their technology.

Anyone got any graphical mod recommendations for KSP?
Also, can airbreathing engines run off oxidiser if there's no atmosphere? And would this get me a higher ISP than a rocket would? Realistically it should, since there's limited energy available but unlimited reaction mass, which should allow for a lower exhaust velocity but far greater quantity of exhaust.

>>11820052
>>11820053
>>11820057
Oh that’s what I assumed. Technically his rockets count as weapons I believe. I’m certainly not Elon Musk, nor do I know how his brain works, but i’m sure he’s not going to be quick to share schematics of starship with anyone. Even if it leaks, who the hell would be able to build one?

>>11820043
ITAR is the reason SpaceX hasn't been flooded with worthless H1B pajeets who ruin everything they touch.

>>11820083
What have pajeets actually ruined? not challenging you I just like those stories

>>11820070
scatter + EVE + planetshine + distant objectsis the basics, beyond that it depends what system you're using
astronomer visual pack is decent if you are using stock, there is also JNSQ which redoes the whole stock system by the galileo team and adds some new bodies too
and if you get tired of the stock system, galileo planet pack is very good and has some great looking planets

for airbreathing engines it depends on the engine, RAPIER and I think a couple others in stock you can switch between air and stored oxidizer

>>11820085
They shat all over LEO with that anti-sat missile test, though to be fair so did US, Russia and China at various times.

>>11820079
They aren't counted as weapons, but the technology used to create a Falcon 9 or Heavy could be used to build a very good guided missile. The kind of avionics package for example that can successfully guide a nearly-ballistic object the size of a house from orbit to a predetermined point on the surface of the Earth not more than ten or twenty meters across is exactly the kind of guidance system you'd want to use for an advanced ICBM/LRBM.

>>11820085
Not him, but if I still had access to the "Dont Outsource to India" Image/text, I would post that.

IIRC its the one where they outsource to cost-cut, and it turns into a multi-month trial to just get working code back.

>>11819917
Spooky, I just borrowed that book recently.
>>11819913
Cool. Now let's see if you can get the whole falcon too.

>>11820054
Enjoy billions of niggers flooding your country.

>>11820095
SpaceX oribtal defense division when?

Was the R-7 too good to be a first LEO capable rocket?
The US started with junk then moved on to better things, but the Soviets never really had to design anything else.

>>11819993
What matter is that the technology and infrastructure is developed that allows people to leave Earth. Once that occurs, people can fuck off away from eachother.

>>11820079
>Even if it leaks, who the hell would be able to build one?
It’s a two million dollar rocket that has a large payload, it’s a perfect candidate to make an ICBM based off of.
>>11820085
Boeing outsourced software development of the 737 to India.

>>11820101
In time I will, I have the files for a full Falcon with all the bits and bobs, but I'm not sure if the dragon I printed scales right as it was a different file by different dude. I'm working my way up to these larger prints though, now that miniatures are coming out detailed and my adhesion problem is gone, I feel confident to step it up.
haha destop-toy maker goes brrr
Also weird about Rama, I read it last year but have been thinking about it recently again.

>>11820048
That’s all BS.

>>11820119
that's pretty funny. any sources on that?

>>11820126
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

What the guy you're quoting is bit wrong. Its not from India, but rather immigrants from India working minimum wage as temp coders. Boeing is hiring H1B workers, aka recent college grads from India, and employing them in US.

>>11820131
*H1B Work Visa

>>11820122
Topsoil degradation and aquifer depletion are not BS, they are serious fucking issues that are being ignored because there is no way to address them under the status quo.

>>11820131
based boing

>>11820155
Just make more dirt and water lol

>>11820175
Water is "relatively" easy, electrolysis exists it's just very energy intensive, nuclear power would desperately be needed to keep water costs reasonable.
Dirt is another thing entirely, it's an entire bacterial ecosystem all it's own and requires a shitton of both time and energy to create from scratch in large quantities. Better to let the biosphere make dirt for us by using what we have left much more intelligently.

>>11820155
thank you based science anon

>>11819426
Kuiper belt

>>11820155
Rotate yo crops nigga

>>11819657
Black holes can have charges and spin. Not just magnetic fields from accretion disks, actual magnetic fields inherent to the black hole.

>>11820186
>Dirt is another thing entirely, it's an entire bacterial ecosystem all it's own and requires a shitton of both time and energy to create from scratch in large quantities. Better to let the biosphere make dirt for us by using what we have left much more intelligently.

Anon it’s called shit it comes out of us on the scale of millions of tons

>>11820194
I love this bait. are you the same guy who was trolling the mars guy about air earlier?

>>11820192
>actual magnetic fields inherent to the black hole.

How???? All of the black hole’s mass is behind the event horizon, and is causally disconnected from the rest of the universe unless it’s spinning extremely fast, but that would also permit time travel

>>11820197
How is it bait?!?!
Shit is good fertilizer. Just grow the plants in it

>>11820200
>the year is 2075
>can't grow enough crops because we've lost 60% of arable land to erosion caused by mass irrigation
>can't produce enough shit because so many starving people
>professional shitter becomes a common trade

at least india will survive

>>11820200
Finally, the Indian Space Program proves their worth.

>>11820212
There’s no excuse for not growing enough food. It’s really easy.

>>11820189
Dude it's too late the soil is already fucked from half a century+ of dumping chemical fertilisers on it

>>11820228
>t. Has never even grown a herb garden

>>11820186
The problem is the amount of water that is used is far, far in excess of any conceivable amount of desalination plants.

>>11820228
>t. Has never farmed
Fuck off, faggot, it's really hard. You motherfuckers think we just plant shit and spray water on it, but there's a lot more to it than that. You have to keep bugs off it too, and that's a bitch and a half

>>11820254
>Dude it's too late the soil is already fucked
Till it under, way under, let it rest and use the shit beneath it.

>>11820254
>The problem is the amount of water that is used is far, far in excess of any conceivable amount of desalination plants

Build more.

>Dude it's too late the soil is already fucked from half a century+ of dumping chemical fertilisers on it

Chemical fertilizers make the soil better dumbass

>>11820260
stop replying to bait moron

let's talk about spaceflight. orbital nukes when

>>11820260
>Fuck off, faggot, it's really hard

Not on industrial scales.

>You have to keep bugs off it too, and that's a bitch and a half

Bug populations have supposedly been declining for decades, so hopefully the disgusting things will go extinct and stop bothering us.

>>11820261
Yeah man, clay, mud and bedrock make great soil. Also fertilisers leech down all the way to the aquifer so good luck.

>>11820048
>No matter which way you spin it resource constraints are setting in.
Malthus was wrong yesterday and he will be prove wrong today.

>>11820269
>Yeah man, clay, mud and bedrock make great soil
Mix thoroughly, add bacteria+ time.

>>11820269
>More fertile soil is bad

??

>>11820266
Nice grav plates. Wish my starship had the ability to simulate 1g

>>11819626
>spacenoids
>earth sphere gov
I'm glad that the retarded anime we've chosen to use vocab from is Gundam

>>11820293
You can cheat and use magnetic shoes.

>>11820293
just spin bro

>>11820266
I wonder if there exists footage of a nuke test from orbit

>>11820299
>>11820301
Both quality alternatives.
Magshoes would be weird, you could probably tinker with the magnetic field and get “1g” worth of attraction, but the rest of your body wouldn’t feel it
Rotating cylinders seem to be the best bet imho

>>11820198
It's special relativity, I don't have to explain shit.

>>11819913
ass
to
ass

Can someone give me a lot of info on what windows are like with current space technology? How structurally sound are windows. Are they at risk of ever blowing out, or are they strong as fuck (aren’t they like, transparent aluminum or something?)

>>11820260
>keeping bugs off
>in greenhouses on Mars
shouldn't be too hard, dude

>>11820262
Problem is we're pretty much only dumping phosphorous nitrogen and potassium on the soil when we should be replacing everything, including the micro-nutrients.

>>11820351
They’re structurally fine but a vulnerability in terms of radiation.

>>11820348
>nooooo you can't just refuel anally

>>11820351
They're probably gonna be made of aluminum oxynitride.
Literally transparent aluminum (granted more like transparent alumina, but lets not split hairs).

>>11820360
Steel is a far worse shielding material than anything you'd make a window out of

>>11820365
it's lewd

>>11820375
Extremely. How many refueling flights was it supposed to take to ready Starship for a flight to Mars? I thought it was more than one, meaning that poor ship has to take multiple refueling nozzles to get ahead it her career.

>>11820394
6-8 I believe. It does sound kind of crazy, but Elon wants to fly these things multiple times a day. Keep in mind once you reach LEO, you can still take a week or two to refuel and perform experiments before you blast off to Lunar or Mars orbit. Also, orbital refueling depots will really change the game in the future

>>11820412
>6-8 I believe
POOR LITTLE STARSHIP
Still, if a trip to Mars is the goal 6-8 flights of a cheap reusable craft isn't the worst compromise. A depot it could dock to (ass-fist, natch) would be better though. Is there a viable idea for hefting fuel to orbit cheaply, outside of re-using Starships as tankers? Almost seems more viable to use basic-ass fuel tanks as expendable payloads, but what do I know.

>>11820422
Just go get the fuel from the asteroid belt. Might take a bit longer but capture and move an icy asteroid into lunar orbit, process it and you'll have absurd amounts of fuel.

For any sort of large scale refuelling in LEO bringing shit from Earth simply isn't going to cut it.

>>11817826
>nightmare bug leg banana bunches
How fucked up does someone have to be to think of that before a normal goddamn shrimp farm.

>The UN ambassador/safety consultant stops by the sovereign /sfg/ moonbase for an outreach mission
>He's confused as to why there's no receiving party, starts wandering around the base
>Finds the Bug Leg Room
>Rows of clusters of spiny, chitinous legs the size of human arms, hanging from nutrient tubes
>There's a quiet but constant background noise of exoskeleton scraping as the legs reflexively strain against the resistance-exercise apparatus surrounding each bundle
>He turns around, horrified and about to vomit, to find that the inhabitants of the base have silently gathered behind him
>A spindly moon wizard stabs him through the throat, and the ambassador's body is dumped into the bug leg nutrient soup tank

>>11820439
Someone needs to capture an asteroid to prove this concept to the world at large. YOU know it's a good idea, I know it's a good idea, but everyone else needs to know it's a good idea too.

>>11820444
Ashes to ashes, bug to bug.

what do bug legs marinated in hydrazine taste like?

>>11820462
Salty coins and milk

>>11819528
>being the middle car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELs3A1zG25A

>>11819240
>>11819572
>>11819577
You can if you believe Joe Eck.
http://www.superconductors.org/author.htm

>>11820444
>The Sub-Lunar natives are a dangerous and unpredictable people
>The deeper you go into their tunnels, the worse things get
>There are things no outsider should ever see
>And believe me, those tunnels run deep
>I've heard stories, man. Bug abominations, fungal symbiosis, technological hive minds.
>I've seen enough to believe those stories, too
>Don't take a tour in Sub-Luna. Even Mercury is better. Trust me.

>>11820502
>not descending deep enough to meet the 4th generation sub-basement harbormaster of an underground lunar lake
"git yer boat rentals here fren"

>>11820048
Sadly we'll be flooded because 1st world governments aren't willing to set up minefields and artillery sat their borders to stop the billions of refugees that are coming.

>>11820104
Good, hope liberals all die

Fuck off with the /pol/ shit

I know jack shit about mechanics of materials but what happens to the stainless steel frame of Starship that enables it to withstand the crazy pressures it goes through during launch?

You can watch the ring sections get thrashed around by the wind, so I'm curious how you go from flappy wavy steel rings to hull that can withstand supersonic speeds

>>11820733
hoop strength or something idk. Also von mises
t. got a B in mechmat, somehow got a degree in mechE this year, and now in mechE grad school
help me I really don't know what the fuck I'm doing, it all went downhill once we got to zero-force members in trusses and selecting gears from the Boston catalog

>>11820733
Pretty sure being pressurized makes the hulls much stronger. Get a two liter of soda, shake it so the CO2 gas gets out of the liquid, and see how much harder, if not impossible, it is to make indentations in it.

>>11820266
Would be more expensive than normal platforms, would be hilariously destabilizing, would get "visited" by enemy antisatellites in close orbits.

>>11820754
Nuke the enemy

>>11820098
How is providing low quality services in exchange for low pay the fault of India?

>>11820339
all over cianigger archives along with the other 500tb of spy sat imagery i'm sure, don't think there's any publicly available though because they pretty much never release anything at all from those programs

>>11820753
that makes sense, thanks

>>11820444
sfg will rule the solar system

speaking of graffiting spaceships...

>>11820446
There's a few mission plans and one that got fairly far with craft design but they've all had their funding cancelled. We should have had one in Lunar orbit years ago.

>>11820781
This effect was very pronounced a few weeks ago when SN3 was destroyed. They drained the bottom tank first on accident, and this resulted in the still-full top tank crushing it because it lost the strength provided by being full of a liquid/gas

>>11820863
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejIXRFzXgsg

>finally haul up 3 lander probes to the inner moon in GPP
>try to land first one
>crashes
>oh woops haha i think i fucked up the landing burn
>try to land second one
>crashes
>wtf I think I almost got
>try to land third one
>crashes
>realize they are actually just fucking falling through the ground and exploding 200m beneath it because ????
excellent game

>>11820762
Indian culture is almost deliberately optimized to produce low quality software.
>nobody ever accepts blame for anything
Good luck bug tracking.
>indirect communication preferred
>conversations take a winding circular path more akin to a 7-body Hohmann transfer than a straight line
This one in particular shows up in their love of boilerplate heavy OOP Java and similar environments.
>wildly nepotistic, on par with Jews and Chinese only less talented
>their elevator pitch to managers from other countries is "80% of the skill at half the pay so make it up on volume"
Anyone who has ever developed serious software knows how that one ends. See "the mythical man month."
>completely tone deaf to localization issues even when that locale is the US, random time variables often default to India
This is what killed Starliner. The "clock running on the pad offset" was precisely the value they'd have seen if the clock started on time but was calibrated to India time versus US Eastern.

>>11820963
you what

Uh oh musk is marsposting again

>>11820982
is it schizo shit or is he talking about turbopumps

>>11820987
>mars is my souldog

just checked, it's schizo shit

what did he mean by this

>>11821000
nobody knows
checked

>Instead, he has some advice he’d like to offer to the world from his personal experience: “I find one learns lessons in the course of life,” he begins with a wry half-smile. “And one lesson I’ve learned is, don’t tweet on Ambien. That’s on the record: Tweeting on Ambien is unwise. You may regret it.”

>>11820963
How did you download Boeing's official spacecraft simulation software?

>>11821000
>middle of the night
>baby crying
>grimes being a little bitch again
>drunk
>shitposting

>>11821000
muh great filter