/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11797327

>space flight

Sounds like you believe in the meme that rockets work in space. Sorry OP for shattering your fantasy world, but it needs to be done.

When you use logic, reason and actual real science, you realize rockets only work (definition: propel themselves forward) inside an atmosphere. This means they don't work in space.

They can't work in a real vacuum. Any claims of the contrary is a fraud and a lie.

>inb4 you parrot "newtons 3rd law!" like an NPC without any thought involved

That law /isn't/ in dispute here. Appealing to it to "prove" rockets "work in space" shows you don't grasp the fundamental problem here. The 3rd law is 100% correct. When asteroids floating in the vacuum of space crashes into each other, the 3rd law applies. Likewise, the law applies to objects interacting on the ground on Earth, underwater, and in the sky. The 3rd law is 100% real, but it doesn't "do" anything for a rocket when its engine is fired in a perfect vacuum.

You see, the atmosphere gets thinner at higher elevation until it disappears completely (out in space). That's the issue here! And you can't get around that issue. Parroting "newtons's 3rd law!" or throwing math equations around, doesn't magically make the issue go away. That's just you avoiding to deal with reality. Man up and stop avoiding reality.

If you're currently under the "rockets work in space! xd!" spell they cast on you through the entertainment industry and educational system (the indoctrination system), and you want to break free from that spell and shatter the illusion - then see these two educational videos (they play inside your browser):

1st vid: https://files.catbox.moe/dl9ldw.webm
2nd (also important): https://files.catbox.moe/so2rrt.mp4

Once you know that stuff, then you know beyond any doubt rocket technology will never be viable outside of Earth.

>>11797335

No atmospheric pressure, zero atmospheric density = no thrust. It truly is that simple.

If you don't understand already, then the following videos, in addition to the ones already posted (here >>11752646), may help you understand:

https://files.catbox.moe/7e3whr.mp4

https://files.catbox.moe/vquxds.mp4

--

>regarding pic related

For those of you with short attention spans who have difficulty following scientific presentations in video format, see the pic for an illustration - it will assist you in understanding that rockets indeed do not work in space. You're welcome.

Starship-chan

electron is CUTE

>>11797339
cringe

>>11797340
cringe

>>11797335
schizos are cute

>>11797344
Why do you even feed it, newfag?

>>11797344
Report and ignore. There’s a bot that posts those two posts every time a new /sfg/ thread is made.

>>11797347
There’s no real person behind the message who would reply back anyway

>>11797338
If you're floating in space and throw something in one direction, would you start going in the other direction?

>>11797335
>>11797338
I know it's bait but you've misplaced Newton's third law here. Rockets do not push against the atmosphere, it's the propellants reaction pushing against the rocket

>responding to automated b8

oh shit

>>11797338
retard

>>11797377
Are they stupid, or just bored?

>>11797383
> zey hev reachd orbeet
>hev zey seen eet?
>oui
>detonate COPV's
>*BYM*
>transfeer Spacex shares to tesla

>>11797340
Nice ICBM

>>11797392
He's a janitor trying to generate more ad revenue.

>>11797404
thats why it's cute, icbms are peak aesthetics

>>11797366
>it's the propellants reaction pushing against the rocket
...and on the other side of that is nothing.

>>11797407
So long as they carry MIRVs

>20th attempt trying to launch my shitty space telescope in 6.4x GPP
>finally looks like i might make it to orbit
>deploy fairings
>suddenly accelerating at speed of light away from planet and end up on escape trajectory from system
>try to revert flight to launch
>instead of going back to launch it goes to empty screen of space at 999 years and 1000000m/s and have to close game with task manager
ksp is a very good game

>>11797416
>>deploy fairings
>>suddenly accelerating at speed of light away from planet and end up on escape trajectory from system
Congratulations on your discovery of FTL travel, now design a ship around the bug like Danny would.

>>11797409
>...and on the other side of that is nothing.
there doesn't have to be.

>>11797409
Doesn’t need to be anything “on the other side”.

>~20 missions to the Moon planned within the next 5 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_the_Moon#Future_missions

Are we seeing a golden age of Lunar exploration?

>>11797384

>>11797443
>3rd law don’t real

Try shooting yourself. There’ll be recoil.

>>11797421
>>11797424
With nothing on the other side of the rocket, the exhaust just goes into that nothingness. Checkmate. Sorry guys.

>>11797437
>tech demonstrator
>tech demonstrator
>tech temonstrator
Yawn
>UK will try exploring lunar caves with spider-drones
Now you have my attention

>>11797449
Fact 1: shooting a gun produces recoil (duh)
Fact 2: throwing a rock doesn't throw you backwards (duh)

Don't confuse things.

>>11797448
>With nothing on the other side of the rocket, the exhaust just goes into that nothingness

And?

>>11797443
cant move something fixed in the celestial sphere, theology-let

>>11797457
See: >>11797338

>>11797456
>Fact 2: throwing a rock doesn't throw you backwards (duh)

Yes it does. Third law of motion.

Just report all the shit, enough.

>>11797460

>>11797462
Is this extreme dishonesty or extreme ignorace? Can't tell. Either way, go check it yourself - throw a rock and see what happens.

>>11797461
>See something wrong

The atmosphere reduces the efficiency of engines by getting in the way of the propellant.

>>11797437
Everything up until getting a base started is clumsy foreplay.

>>11797462
he's right tho, a rock being thrown doesn't exert any force on the thrower, as opposed to the exposion in a gun

>>11797470
A rocket works better the thicker the atmosphere is. The thinner the atmosphere is, the worse it works. Simple fact of physical reality.

>>11797468
>Either way, go check it yourself - throw a rock and see what happens.

Since the third law of motion is real, I am pushed back slightly. Since I’m so much larger than the rock, the effect is minimal.
Stop denying basic scientific laws.

>>11797473
go throw a heavy rock.
try to throw a car and pretend its a heavy rock.

>>11797464
It's too much to even report at this point. OP should seppuku so that we can try again.

>>11797473
>he's right tho, a rock being thrown doesn't exert any force on the thrower

Yes it does. Third law. If you exert a force on something, it exerts an equal force on you.

>>11797475
>A rocket works better the thicker the atmosphere is.

Sorry no.

>>11797485
This, I'll check back tonight and hopefully the rampant faggotry will have subsided again

updated version for extreme brainlets

>>11797498
Rock rockets when?

I don't think the whole "make life multi-planetary" is the real reason Musk wants to colonize Mars. I think it all boils down to his childhood obsession with science fiction and the severe bullying he went through. We're not talking mean words-he got thrown down a flight of stairs and almost died at one point. Musk's actions betray an overwhelming urge to escape from control-his eccentricity is just another aspect of that. Musk likely associates being "cancelled" with the bullying he endured and responds with defiant weirdness.

I think this pattern of early childhood trauma and an obsession with science fiction is probably common among space colonization enthusiasts.

>>11797475
>genuine

>>11797500
Who cares we’re going to Mars

>>11797500
It means nothing to me if we don't get to Europa

>>11797499
in 2009

>>11797500
You should take time away from sniffing ass and calling it psychology and take a step back to form a broader understanding of reality.

Nuke this whole thread jannies

>>11797516
Sniffing buttholes is good fun

>>11797450
>>UK will try exploring lunar caves with spider-drones
Why haven't we heard more about this?

>>11797448
If you're floating in space and throw something in one direction, would you start going in the other direction?

>>11797456
>Fact 1: shooting a gun produces recoil (duh)
And when the rocket shoots away gas, recoil pushes the rocket

>>11797514
ahh...yevropa

>>11797335
>>11797338
>>11797409
>>11797448
>>11797475

This is how it works, shut your ass and accept it

>>11797550
Not only that, you’d begin spinning, because the force applied to you was off-center in terms of your center of mass, thus applying torque.

>>11797514
we are not allowed to attempt a landing there though

>>11797500
Spacefags are asocial losers and potential school shooters and you want money for fantasies in a world torn apart by social inequality? Yikes.

>>11797563
yolo bro

>>11797571
Inequality doesn’t matter.

>>11797563
Yes we are. No one can stop it.

>>11797563
If at least some people survive the 21st century we will.

>>11797583
Don’t be such a doomer. We’ll be fine

>>11797327
this man is a nazi racist, tear down these rockets

>>11797588
Okay. If at least some people capable of supporting society that can do spaceflight survive the 21'st century we will.

>>11797500
if he gets the job done, who gives a shit?

>>11797335
Good bait, so I’ll join in.

The mechanism of propulsion in a vacuum is related to Newton’s third law but is (conveniently) glosses over in your post.
Rockets use Conservation of Momentum to accelerate. This is straight forward enough to prove, vacuum or not; it’s what creates the recoil of a rifle or why the center of mass is so important in closed systems. In space, you would still get that same recoil from the gun because *no atmosphere is required to bounce the bullet off of*. Likewise, shooting *any* mass off of your rocket will impart an equal and opposite momentum onto your craft. Momentum (mass*velocity) gain obviously implies to get anything substantial means you have to ‘throw’ propellant very, very fast in order to get any appreciable acceleration to your spacecraft, and the measure of how fast you can expel the propellant is (roughly) the specific impuse (Isp), which is used as an analog for the efficiency of the rocket.

You’re probably not arguing in good faith, but if you are I encourage you to educate yourself instead of being an /x/ tier brainlet

Dawn/dusk are best times for aesthetic launches

>>11797592
Most societies will be able to support spaceflight by 2100

>>11797416
holy fuck I finally made it, and it only took like 30 tries and restating ksp 4 times for crashes and switching mods

does anyone do astronomy? you know how an object appears larger than it is when it's near the horizon? (see pic) can you do the same for other objects in space? as in, can you more easily see a satellite if it's on the horizon, or other planets? what about objects further away like exoplanets or galaxies?

Congratulations mods, you turned one of the few good threads on this board into a /tv/-like shithole. I hope the money was worth it.

>>11797637
It’ll be fine stop whining

>>11797626
I think that's an illusion due to how the brain processes scale. I recall that it has something to do with your brain having no reference for size when an object is high in the sky so it "looks" smaller. When the object is low to the horizon, the brain picks up on the reference provided by the horizon and so the object appears larger.

>>11797464
What's the point? The janny in question is just going to post this shit again.

>>11797654
Ignore them then. I’ve seen them post the same stuff before and no one replied

>>11797649
yeah but the illusion appears in cameras too, hence the pic, so maybe it appears in telescopes as well

>>11797603
Indeed.

>>11797637
I've been banned twice now in the last week because I've told people here to stop spamming anime. The staff not only don't give a fuck about shitposting or trolling, they actively encourage it. You can flood this thread with off topic reaction images without any text and your posts won't even get delete.

I have to include something about spaceflight so I don't get banned yet again. Fuck Boeing and fuck jannies.

>>11797662
not really, the angular size is the same. that specific picture's zoomed in a lot anyway, you can see from the atmospheric disturbance of the images of the moon and building.

>>11797596
>>11797615
Bold claims. Space kino will peak around the mid century, after that it's all downhill.

How about talking about orbital rings to get away from the "conversation" with the guy that doesn't know physics?

>>11797703
>Space kino will peak around the mid century, after that it's all downhill.

No reason to believe that

>>11797672
holy fucking same

>>11797663
Why does it shine like that?

>>11797327
Reminder that Felon Musk endorses child labour

>>11797707
Seems possible and would be an easier way to get to space than rockets, but I think the amount of industry and material required to make would place its construction so far into the future that humankind would be unrecognizable to us. I think for the near term and farther term future we should be focusing more on getting as much work out of rockets as possible over these megaprojects.

>>11797721
Imagine being a fascist who wants to restrict children from working if they want.

>>11797721
Completely false. The Tesla/SpaceX supply chain doesn't source Cobalt from the Congo, if that was what you were trying to reference while you grasp at straws.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/about/legal/2018-conflict-minerals-report.pdf

>>11797720
Because the Sun is lighting up the exhaust yet the Sun is below the horizon so the sky is dark enough for us to see the exhaust. If the launch was closer to midnight, then the Sun wouldn't have been able to shine on the exhaust. If the launch was closer to day, then the sky would be too bright to see the exhaust.

>>11797751
>all those pads
We need to get a bunch of them up and running. Spaceflight is booming and needs more pads ready for use.

>>11797733
Yeah unfortunately you're right. Once mining in space gets started we might get enough material and by then we might have pretty good automated construction in space. Then someone might be able to start building it

>>11797769
Have a more cinematic shot of some of those pads. Maybe when NASA and Blue Origin get their act together, then we will be seeing more pads being used.

>>11797528
Good question, first I've heard of it too.

>>11797327
>>11797748
daily reminder sun diving is our best bet for oort cloud and TNO exploration probes right now

>>11797769
Why did they build so many pads in the first place?

the spiders don't look very robust

>>11797571
kill yourself

>>11797803
Do they need to be? It is the moon.

>>11797803
What's this meant to be? An asteroid rover?

>>11797803
But it looks cute. Anyone got a video of them moving?

>>11797810
It’s supposed to explore caves on Luna

>>11797803
Can it right itself if it falls over? I wonder how slowly it's going to scuttle, a cm or two a day? Hope they pack a flashlight if they're going unnaground.

>>11797799
Lotta missiles to test. Plus they were probably cheap as hell and more pork barrel spending is always politically favorable.

>>11797814
seems appropriate

>>11797806
Moondust will fuck them up fast

>>11797803
add another pair of legs for "stability" reasons

>>11797825
How so?

>>11797799
Apparently they used to test all kinds of ballistic missiles from the area.

>>11797832
It gets everywhere and is hard to get rid of? Their legs will get clogged.

>>11797840
>It gets everywhere

Coarse and rough, too?

>>11797851
No, sharp like razorblades and very fine.

>>11797851
Very irritating

>>11797855
I don’t like moon dust. It’s sharp, and fine, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.

>>11797855
Good thing the spiders appear to be made of some variety of metal. Do we have any video of testing?

European manned spaceprogram when?
I'm tired of seeing us hitching rides with slavs and burgers like we're gypsies hitch hikers

>>11797893
Never. Sorry but we're gypsies now.

>>11797707
A orbital ring is such a ridiculously huge undertaking that it would probably be easier to build a orbital elevator.
And i'm certain that somebody will figure out how to make a cable for a orbital elevator in the next few decades that doesnt go SNAP.

>>11797893
>esa
never ever

why does esa even exist?

>>11797903
Does it really exist?

Why did South America give up on spaceflight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSGFL4W1guk
These little spiders remind me of tachikomas.
First mission looks like a wet fart though, "crawl ten meters then call home and die"
>>11797893
Have you tried building a rocket? Another one I mean.

>>11797907
Have they mastered regular flight yet?

>>11797907
did south america ever start on spaceflight?

>>11797903
ESA has done some cool deep space probe missions like rosetta and huygens, and they will do JUICE as well, but other then that they're a pretty boring organization, especially when it comes to human spaceflight.

>>11797893
Just foster an entrepreneurial environment for a large tech company that creates a few billionaires then let one of the them dick around with rockets for a decade or two. Easy.

>>11797903
To do Science at a fraction of the cost that nasa does it.
https://www.esa.int/ESA/Our_Missions
Dont act so smug, you guys were licking the boots of the russians to fly up with the Soyuz up until a few weeks ago, and now a south african is giving you a ride instead.

>>11797913
Argentina and Brazil used to have launchers but quit doing it one day.

>>11797922
>"Hello I would like to purchase one of your fine rockets"
>"Yes I would also like your big American dollars, this is mutually beneficial"
>bootlicking
I hate memes

is hydrolox as useless IRL as it is in KSP
>haha look at all this efficiency dude
>jk your rocket ends up being 10x bigger for the same dv because of the awful density and all the insulation mass makes it even worse if you want it to last more than 10 minutes before boiling off

>>11797893
>European manned spaceprogram when?
Maybe when Retault (or a rocket like it) starts flying and it's cheap enough for ESA to explore something like Hermes again.

>Here is your new lunar rover, bro

>>11797941
that looks like a literal copy of falcon 9

>>11797923
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tronador_(rocket)
They're working on stuff. Just have the usual issues with shit government spending and military overreach.

>>11797412

>>11797957
Yeah, but what happens when a meteorite hits the driver side window?

>>11797967
hope you have insurance

>>11797957
What in god's name are those wheels

>>11797973
I think they are called mecanum wheels and they allow a vehicle to move in any direction. Probably not that useful on the moon but they look cool.

>>11797957
This shit looking like the Colonial Marines are gonna jump out of it guns blazing

>>11797851

>>11797893
>tfw the member countries didn't fund a man-rated version of the ATV

>>11797985
Huh, I'd never seen these before but seeing them in motion I get it now. Ugly as hell to me, but probably super useful for large slow moon-cranes and base-placers.

>>11797957
Add a Ma Deuce to the back and I'm sold on it.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-s-new-horizons-conducts-the-first-interstellar-parallax-experiment

cool

>>11797923
In Brazil we lost most of the brain when an explosion killed most of the engineers and technicians, the space program had to be scaled down and the lack of funding afterwards pretty much means that it is on ice

>>11798038
Did a rocket blow up or a fuel container or what?

>>11798001
It was never good value for money. ESA has about 1 ISS crew-member a year. They would have to increase that dramatically for manned ATV to make any sense. And what would be the long term plan, post ISS? It makes more sense to replicate what they did with the ISS as part of NASA's Moon architecture. Be a part of something new, instead of creating another redundant system. This obsession with indigenous manned space flight is just pointless jingoism.

>>11797957
Just unfuck those tires and put a cannon on the back.

>>11798047
From what i remember it was the rocket

>>11797715
The worst part is when you get banned for animefagging differently. So my DBZfagging gets banned, but the trannyme fags don't? At least the one I was shilling somewhat encourages its audience to be chads or something.

>>11797339
>>11797344
Grow up pedos
>>11797514
We are probing Europa soon and with a presence on mars we can realistically send missions to Europa

>>11797957
>rover strafing with mecanum wheels

>>11798060
At this point there's no predicting mods, they exist in a meta-dimension of faggotry beyond us mere mortals. People should just have enough self-respect to post on-topic stuff and cease animefagging and avatarfagging on their own.

>>11798015
That is neat.

>>11797514
Good thing we have 3 europa missions coming in the 2020s. That'll give a lot of information on potential landing sites.

>>11798090
Makes it seem close. I want to go there

>>11798049
Redundancy in launch systems is a good thing. Over the last 9 years a problem with soyuz that killed the crew would have meant de-manning the ISS during the investigation because there was no alternative.

>>11797571
The trannies will inherit the Earth, the rest of us will gtfo

>>11797707
We could probably build Von Braun stations to sort of get a feel towards what such life would lead. The real model will need plenty of RCS to keep rotation, that is certain.
>>11798089
This. I was perfectly fine with my ban because truth be told, I was avatarfagging, but the mods didn't even bother banning the moetrannies. Just...

>>11798108
Trannies won't inherit anything. They sterilize themselves, and will die out as soon as the ideology that convinces people to make more of them is removed.

>>11797957
Oh yes we scifi now.

>>11798095
It's just right over there, we should've started throwing shit at it two decades ago or more. Anon's sun-shot acceleration idea seems like the best bet for brute-forcing something at Proxima if we wanted to do it right now.

>>11798112
The jews will either stay to keep their slaves, or we'll have that tranny shit come along because (((they))) follow us and induce propaganda.

>>11798121
>implying (((they))) won't infiltrate any off-world colony
Running away from the dystopia is a pipe dream. Anyone with half a brain will realize there is potential for USA v2 in space and everyone will want the biggest piece of pie they can get.

>>11798120
Sun-shot acceleration is proportional, so if we can get a probe up to .01c before sun diving we can actually get it there in a single lifetime.

How fast could we realistically accelerate something with today's tech?

>>11798120
Rigil Kentaurus and Toliman, the two binary class G stars that make up Alpha Centauri, are separated by a distance about the same as Neptune’s distance from the sun, and there’s some photographs of them behind Saturn’s rings in which they’re visibly distinct. Frames of reference like that make them seem relatively nearby.

>>11797500
I doubt it.

>>11798121
Ben Shapiro is Jewish but he doesn’t encourage trannies therefore your conspiracy is wrong

>>11798145
Hundreds of thousands of kilometers with staged ion engines, but the acceleration would be extremely slow to increase.

Is the ESA moon village still planned for the future or was it scrapped

>>11798105
>Over the last 9 years
But they only considered building it around 2010. Before then they were in talks with Russia over CSTS. It would have been many years before it was ready, they estimated it would take a decade. Also note that Orion and CCDev had started and ESA would have had no way of predicting how late they would be.

> de-manning the ISS
So? It's hardly the end of the world.

something like this could make it easy to start building a bunch of ghetto stanford toruses in orbit. Each module is the same, gets launched the same way, and is cheap enough that it plus an RP-1 fuel bladder inside wouldn't cost more than a small house in Bumfuck, Flyoverville.

Now you've got the minimal for long-term deep space mission. Use the large ring for habitation, and the smaller ring to provide artificial gravity for asteroidal smelting / continuous metal casting. (this would be complemented by missions to the moon, and/or carbonaceous chrondite asteroids to pick up water and carbon needed for making steel)

Once you can produce steel, you can use simple tools to construct more of these containers. (designed to be constructed out of multiple layers of thick sheet metal and bar stock.) Use an existing container as a template to align the components of a new one against. Now you can just keep building these, and sell them to people on earth for less than what it would cost them to launch a brand new container.

quakers chewy granola bars confirmed as rocket-building food

>>11798157
Someone wiped his ass with the paper plan. The interesting thing is those plans, contrary to all logic, are actually reusable: you will see it rise up from the... ashes? in the future once more.

>>11798157
It was only ever a proposal. And there may not be money for a base given the US has pushed for Gateway. It depends heavily on what NASA's lunar architecture actually looks like in the end. I wouldn't hold your breath.

>>11798146
Damn I had not seen this one before, christ they're RIGHT OVER THERE LET'S GOOOOO

>>11798157
Doesn't seem like it. There is a recent official video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQTHVky-G4Y

>>11798169
Water Gatorade and chewy bars. We should meme this

>>11798169
Can’t wait til they figure out the best welds and build a robotic welder autoplant just beyond the tarmac so starship can be mass produced

>>11798174
It’s take decades at least for small probes to travel there, but it is doable. Wouldn’t expect people to go until we’ve got fusion engines or some crazy shit like that.

>>11798181
A flyby probe at bare minimum should already be on the way out there by this point, I'm with
>>11798144
anon here, I want to see an alien sun up close, even if it's just through a camera lens. And whatever else happens to be there.

>>11798181
https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2017/12/29/the-plasma-magnet-drive-a-simple-cheap-drive-for-the-solar-system-and-beyond/
Hopefully a scale test of this bad boy is promising

>>11797957
Despite this just being concept art, I've read a lot of criticism of the idea of using a Cybertruck on the moon, mostly that it would be too heavy and there's no need to have an aerodynamic shape.

At what point would the cost savings of not have to develop a lunar rover from scratch outweigh the added weight? Wouldn't the extra weight provide for better traction?

>>11798187
>At what point would the cost savings of not have to develop a lunar rover from scratch outweigh the added weight?

With Starship, never until moon colonies are constructing their own little moon cars in situ

>>11798181
They'll drift further and further away from us as time goes by. The fusion engines better come soon or sending few fly by probes might be our best bet.

>>11798192
That’s not significant except on the scale of thousands of years. In 11k years, Barnard’ s Star will pass within 3.75 light years, so there’s that.

>>11798187
The concept of it on Mars is equally stupid. If you're gonna have a pressurised vehicle you need an airlock. If you're going to have to wear a spacesuit then you don't need all of that mass.

>>11798187
until things get normal enough, and once ounce autism finally ends and we start just start shipping already-in-use industrial stuff like Polaris ranger EV UTVs directly with little to no modification, using a cybertruck base will be 1000% cheaper than making any other new rover from scratch

>>11798172
Well thats unfortunate

>>11798120
I'm the sun diving anon, it isn't really useful for fast interstellar missions. For that we need laser sail shit like starshot, which I actually think is doable within 30 years, at least to 0.1c if not 0.2c

>>11798187
>too heavy
You're going to run out of room on SS before running out of tonnage in most cases
>At what point would the cost savings of not have to develop a lunar rover from scratch outweigh the added weight?
Dev costs on a new vehicle are always steep. And a rover doesn't really have a point where you can say it paid itself off. If they can get away with a cybertruck based rover without going into dev hell, it's worth it.

>>11798112
>>11798121
They will have a lot less influence in colonies, especially for the inevitable mormon colonies.

>>11798221
just send cyberquads, much better than the apollo rovers anyway

>>11798181
People won't go until we either have over 50% of c, which we probably won't get until we have interstellar laser networks in the works, or we have some form of stasis technology.

What do you think will be the first mission for the SLS

>>11798256
>he thinks it will ever get off the ground

>>11798256
SLS is such a joke compared to starship it isn't even funny. Still though, it has been worked on for a decade and I'd like to see it fly throughout the early to mid 2020s a few times, as it'll be the last nasa rocket probably ever.

>>11798256
Excluding test flights? An Artemis mission to send a crew to low lunar orbit.

>>11798225
Would anything prevent you from first accelerating with the sun-dive and then deploy the sail after periapsis? Get that initial acceleration and just keep shooting it faster the whole time it's leaving?

>>11798268
No, but it'd be much easier to just accelerate the starshot probes to 20% of c straight from earth.

>>11798260
Yeah its pretty disappointing especially since SLS STS and constellation were supposed to be much larger programs than they ever were allowed to be.
>>11798263
That is really dumb, they should just start constructing gateway

>>11798281
>20% of c
I guess throwing it around the sun first wouldn't add that much additional speed relative to that, in that case.

>>11798290
Yeah, it'd just add more time, money, and complexity. Plus I don't know if the microsats would be able to get that close to the sun anyways. The cool thing about starshot is they plan to send these fleets of 1000 or so microsats at 20% of lightspeed to pretty much all of our nearby stars. Will give us a shit ton of data about them and lay the groundwork for the technology required for interstellar colonization.

>>11798259
I'm sure it will fly, i just think it will be short lived. That being said i still don't understand why Orion is so small or why its a fucking capsule

>>11798300
Because it is a lot easier pitching to congress a replay of apollo then something quite different.

I looked at /x/. Holy shit there’s real insane people there.

>>11798305
Yes, there are. If you thought /pol/ has a lot of flat earthers and space is fake types, /x/ will blow your mind with its sheer stupidity.

>>11798303
I fucking hate politicians, SLS although outdated could still be pretty decent if it had a better crew delivery system.

has anyone else noticed this fucking pajeet always replying to elon's tweets and sucking him off? it's so fucking cringe, he spends all day obsessing over elongated muskrats. Can't even read Elon's tweets without scrolling down and seeing the same damn pajeet every single time.

>>11798305
That board has been lost for years.
>>11798297
How micro we talking here?

>>11798310
/pol/ has a lot more ironic flat earthers. /x/ has unironic flat earthers who are locked in their basement trying to summon angels and hiding from criptids.

>>11798319
I don't use twitter so no.

>>11798300
capsules are nice anon

>>11798319
He seems like a nice guy. Elon is cool and you shouldn’t be mean

Can I continue the RTG/Kilopower discussion from the last thread? I’m a geologyanon so I don’t know much about the physics/engineering of power production...
Someone said a Sterling engine would produce way more power than an RTG. Why is this- do thermocouples just intrinsically suck?
Assuming we are on the surface of Mars with shitty sunlight, what would be best for power generation: RTG, Solar, or Kilopower?

>>11798325
>/x/ has unironic flat earthers who are locked in their basement trying to summon angels and hiding from criptids

It’s disturbing to me when I contemplate the fact there are people who genuinely believe shit like this. It must be terrifying for them.

>>11798335
They're old tech and not efficient compared to other crew modules

>>11798344
RTGs use alpha particles to knock off electrons and produce power while stirling engines use heat differences to produce motion, so it uses far more of the energy produced to make electricity than the seeback effect

>>11798344
>Someone said a Sterling engine would produce way more power than an RTG. Why is this- do thermocouples just intrinsically suck?

I was the one who brought it up. I’m no expert on the topic but here’s a NASA pdf on the thing
https://rps.nasa.gov/system/downloadable_items/36_APP_ASRG_Fact_Sheet_v3_9-3-13.pdf

>>11798319
does he think elon will give him a free ticket to mars or something because he is simping for him on twitter

>>11798346
Yeah i wouldn't want to be them. I'm superstitious but not to that level

>>11798357
I think aliens exist but they’ve never actually harmed aircraft so I don’t see any reason to worry about it

>>11798346
Having known schizophrenics, you have no idea. Imagine if the moment you contemplated a fear it became real. It’s sort of like a nonstop lucid dreaming nightmare, except much more real and much less lucid, and almost no one around you can see what you see and denies reality to you.

>>11798355
He probably saw Tim Dodd get close to elon by social media and thinks he can too. Plus pajeets are just socially inept

>>11798311
As long as it's hydrolox first stage it can never be "pretty decent".

>>11798323
Gram scaled. The actual guidance, communications, and scientific section of the probe will be somewhere between this size and phone sized, but the light sail will be around 4 meters in diameter apparently. This is the only way we can send probes to another star system in a relatively short timeframe. The good news is that each probe is quite cheap, this will allow us to pretty much shotgun blast nearby star systems without having to worry about losing individual probes. They've actually launched a few prototypes into space. https://www.zmescience.com/science/sprites-smallest-probes-space/

>>11798352
>>11798353
Interesting. I just assumed this whole time that thermocouples were pretty much a direct conversion to electricity. The more you know.
If aliens came down and gave us blueprints for a compact fusion device, it seems kind of strange that our best way to “hook it up” to our spaceship would be to connect it to a Sterling engine. Do we have better ways of energy extraction or is Sterling the best we’ve got

>>11798364
Because tim reddit actually knows some shit about rocketry and can ask somewhat intereresting questions for elon, but that panay guy is just some random pajeet.

>>11798349
modern capsules are way more advanced than old ones. it's not as if it's exactly the same 1960's shit. as far as carrying people to LEO they are a good cheap, easy to reuse option because they are really simple to build and can be launched on smaller rockets. anti capsulers are the same as anti nuclears

>>11798370
To clear things up, the image I posted is a very early prototype to test to the small electronics needed for space. Actual probes with the exception of the light sail itself will be closer to phone sized and will use some sort of miniaturized RTG type technology, not solar cells.

>>11798360
I think they exist but are nowhere near earth and have never been near us

>>11798371
Energy conversion losses are expressed as heat, so a heat engine is always going to be pretty damn close to efficient. Even nuclear reactors in aircraft carriers just use the energy to heat water and act as steam engines.

>>11798371
NASA’s Kilopower fission generator also uses the stirling cycle. It’s just generally an efficient way to turn heat into useable electrical energy.

Tell me some lore about boca chica

>>11798367
Its a heavy lift rocket, i guess instead of decent i should have said useful

>>11798383
Literal UFOs playing hide and seek with the Navy is good enough evidence for me

>>11798389
*Boca Chaika

>>11798392
>Heavy lift
>Even block 2 (as if it will ever exist) will be lesser than Saturn V

>>11798344
Kilopower reactors also are actual nuclear reactors, just miniaturized. RTGs are just decaying hulks of plutonium or some other radioactive substance essentially.

>>11798389
Idk if they have armed guards or anything, but it’s in Texas... so if you broke in and decided to run away, they could still shoot you in the back as you were running and it would be legally justified under state law lmao

>>11798375
Its like using a updated p-51 instead of an F-22. The platform itself is what is outdated not the tech inside. Also it may be simple but Orion is not cheap and as Elon is showing us you can make a cheap system without a capsule.

>>11798406
Starship just has a big capsule tho

>>11798398
Still a heavy lift classification

>>11798406
I suppose for deep space, capsules are outdated. I don't see you hating on dragon.....

>>11798408
No its not

>>11797500
and? We still get to mars.

>>11798409
It's a fucking joke, man. It's weaker than something that flew last in 1972 and it needs training wheels to get off the ground as well.

>>11798411
It’s a big container for dudes it’s a capsule

>>11798413
Hydrolox first stages were the biggest mistake in US spaceflight.

>>11798410
Orion is a deep space capsule.

>>11798417
Yes.

>>11798370
Aren't these supposed to have cameras?

>>11798416
So any pressurized spacecraft that isn't a spaceplane is a capsule for you.

>>11798416
A capsule jettisons its engines and basically everything but the pressure vessel before landing. Dragon, even with propulsive landing, would therefore be a capsule. Starship and the Shuttle are not.

>>11798421
Yes. And it'll be pretty easy to create composite images from the 1000 or so spacecraft.

>>11798423
Yeah?

>>11798427
That is a wrong definition though.
>>11798424

>>11798424
>A capsule jettisons its engines and basically everything but the pressure vessel before landing

So if I took the Apollo capsule, removed the heat shield and it’s ability to decouple from the service module, and threw it up there, it wouldn’t be a capsule?

>>11798410
I'm not hating on dragon because its already finished, cheap and is planned to be phased out by starship. I am hating on Orion because its the main focus of Artemis, it costs a fuck ton of taxpayer money and it is tiny.

>>11798432
It’s a meter wider than Dragon 2

>>11798431
Correct, it'd be a small orbit-only spaceship. If you added a heat shield to the combined unit and put some more fuel in the tanks so it reentered like Starship it would also no longer be a capsule.

>>11798427
You are retarded

>>11798434
It's a tenth the volume of Starship and has to jettison the expensive bits to land.

>>11798416
The difference between a Spaceship and a Capsule is that a Capsule requires a separate service/propulsion module to supply it with power and the capability to move. A spaceship is a single vehicle with it's own inbuilt power and propulsion systems. Orion, Starliner and Dragon for example are all capsules, Dragon is closer to a true spaceship because it has it's own internally contained propulsion system sufficient to allow it to perform some maneuvering or even propulsively land (in theory), however it still needs a service trunk with solar panels to provide it electrical power for the duration of a mission.

>>11798049
>This obsession with indigenous manned space flight is just pointless jingoism
No it is of strategic importance, especially when economic development of space takes off.

>>11798439
It’s a bit small but it’s not intended to be the habitat for long-term voyages to, say, the moon. It’ll be mated to a bigger pressurized area during that time

>>11798432
if you think that starship is going to phase out dragon you're deluded. there's no way NASA is going to fly people on something with the exact same safety problems as the shuttle

>>11798434
>It’s a meter wider than the capsule meant for LEO
Wow I'm so impressed, and how much bigger is starship? Hmmmm

>>11798439
Starship has 1000 cubic meters of internal pressurized volume. Orion has around 9

>>11798446
Starship has 100 cubic meters, not 1000.

>>11798444
You ARE retarded. First of all, starship doesn't have the same safety problems, and second of all, the whole point of starship is to phase out crew dragon. My god oldspace fans are retarded.

>>11798441
Alright fair enough seems like pointless semantics to me

>>11798443
>It’ll be mated to a bigger pressurized area during that time
Waste of money

>>11798445
I can't see that picture without hearing the theme to MST3k in my head.
Fuck you /sfg/

>>11798447
No, it has 1000.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/af1n37/how_much_cabin_volume_will_the_starship_human/

>>11798438
Wow the SLS would look a lot nicer if it wasn’t so fucking orange

>>11798453
I mean this is NASA we’re talking about

How will they get these down from starship without tipping it, inb4 weak looking crane.

Not gonna reply to anyone specifically but I’ll be neutral here and point some things out. Yes we can shit on Orion, but: It will be ready before starship so it can get us to gateway in that short stretch of time before SS (and no other capsules are rated for deep space), it ISN’T built by boeing it’s built by lockheed martin and AIRBUS (boeing BFTO’d again), it’s supposedly reusable which is a nice thing coming from NASA

>>11798462
Painting it genuinely hurts the delta/v and thus the payload

>>11798462
Don't want any excess weight in paint when using (((LH2))).

>>11797707
how about considering the fact that orbital rings are unstable and that picture you posted is complete sci-fi garbage? Not to mention that orbital rings are ENORMOUSLY COSTLY to build

>>11798467
Orion will be an ok capsule for the early artemis missions, but when starship is ready there will be no reason to continue using it.

>>11798465
Shit like that gets sent in crates with whatever lander solution you come up with in advance. You yeet heavy loads like that at the planet.

>>11798465
>How will they get these down from starship without tipping it,

Crane.

>>11798465
Crane.

>>11798474
Elon should offer the ability to store a crewed orion in a Starship Cargo just to piss of boeing

>>11798465
Don't forget mars has 0.38 the surface gravity of earth.

>>11798180
it already looks like in mass production to me

>>11798486
i wouldn't call test articles designed to iron out the final design mass production

>>11797803
the fuck it doesn't have any actuators, is it supposed to be a fucking statue.
>>11797814
nice meme. It's not gonna last long in a cave. I'd like to see that they can actually control where it hops to some degree. That and self right in a rock pile.

>>11798049
>This obsession with indigenous manned space flight is just pointless jingoism.
No its called independence, space is about to explode and having to rely on the US to put people in space will bite you in the ass. The amount of money you save now will pale in comparison to the scientific, engineering and financial gains you will lose out on.

>>11798490
>nice meme. It's not gonna last long in a cave.

What, are the fuckin Lunar cave beasts gonna smash it?

>>11797911
and it's getting a free fucking ride on a NASA CLPS mission. FUCK CLPS! They ain't doing shit. Just a free government handout if you ask me. All just so NASA can say they're doing private stuff will ignoring SLS.

Martian Regolith Hive Cities
With swarm of maintainence bots

>>11798490
Lava tubes, not caves. It's hardly going to be spelunking like Indiana Jones.

>>11798491
Fucking this

>>11798489
They are designing it for mass production but i think that anon is saying that the short time it took for replacement means the design is going to be easily produced.

>>11798367
I'm beginning to think LH as a first stage is falling into the "carriers with ramps" category

>>11798504

>>11798465
>implying they won't just print

>>11798503
Oh it will be, especially the cargo version.

>>11798509
I'm going to.... PROOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNT

>>11798457
You love it

>>11798504
At least shuttle eventually got its hydrogen engines to the vacuum of space. SLS only uses HL at sea level- AND has SRB’s.
Not to mention it was supposed to be a direct conversion of shuttle, but turns out they realized that by storing the load on top like a capsule instead of on the side like a space shuttle, they had to change everything from the aluminum alloy to the type of welds used, even the type of orange foam
SLS has turned into the biggest fucking waste of resources and engines

>>11798509
>Does nothing all day, just fucking prints.

>>11798495
batteries, getting stuck in a rock pile, getting signal blocked by a rock pile. We expect lunar lava tubes to have a pile of rocks from the collapsed skylight
>>11798499
tubes, caves, same fucking thing

>>11798483
Or use Orions as escape ships.

>>11798519
I’m sure it’ll find it’s way around safely

>>11798519
>tubes, caves, same fucking thing
Not really, no. Lava tubes are fairly smooth, so those spiderbots aren't the worst designs for scuttling around inside.

>>11798504
Half of it is "ISP number big on paper so LH2 good" meme and the other half is "fuck guys what are we going to do with all these RS-25 engineers who can't skill into designing a new workhorse engine" meme.

>>11798509
Printers don’t account for urban expansion
If you have a permanent and growing settlement, it makes more sense to add on to your existing construction than keep low, suburban sprawl to reduce Life support costs as one or 2 big atmo-generators and packed together urban infrastructure is less costly than large sprawls that you get with direct printing
A printer that produces massive Prefab sections quickly can be arranged and rearranged like legos

>>11798416
I live in a capsule that just happens to look like a trailer by this metric.

>he doesn't mill his spaceships
never gonna make it

>>11798467
>It will be ready before starship
Orion might be but SLS won't, sure NASA won't sign off on starship that fast but the system will be out first and showing the world's its capabilities. I actually like the gateway idea and I like that starship will give NASA a lot of equipment to the surface of the moon. But Orion is disappointing and uncreative.

>>11798533
I hope to god they sweep up those steel pieces and remelt them instead of throwing them in the trash

>>11798533
>He can’t build junkyard rockets
Ur fugged

>>11798538
bro its just some steel just buy some more haha

>>11798533
I'm so sick of this bullshit. Thankfully it's almost all ogre.

>>11798529
didja see muh pic related? To get into a tube, you gotta get in through a skylight, or part of the tube that's collapse to make a hole. That's gonna have a pile of rocks. Tubes ain't always smooth

>>11798542
BUT ITS BEING WASTED ITS METAL ATOMS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YdlGPIYyh0 new update

>>11798509
Have some proont porn

>>11798546
It's the moon anyway, it's gonna be fucking meters of regolith all over the fucking place.

>>11798546
>Tubes ain't always smooth

Yeah just ask my wife
*sips Monster*

>>11798538
>>11798542
>steel
It's oldspace you stupid mongrels. Since when did you think they built out of non-meme materials

>>11798551
not necessarily in the cave. Ain't no wind on the Moon, so how's regolith gonna get in there in the first place? Cave's gonna shield stuff from space weathering a bit too.

>>11798557
>Ain't no wind on the Moon, so how's regolith gonna get in there in the first place?

Wind

>>11798533
Fucking /arg/ billet receiver bullshit.

>>11798557
If it's through a skylight like you just posted, you can assume regolith has spilled in.
Because there's gravity on the moon.

>>11798531
Actually they do because the materials can be easily melted down and added onto. That was part of that competition

>>11798561
but said regolith might not cover the rocks on the floor of the skylight.
>>11798565
and those materials are plastic. Ain't no plastic on Mars.

>>11798557
Nearby impacts probably rattled some debris enough to tumble down at various times.

>>11798570
Do you have any fucking idea how thick that shit is? It's meters and meters of it.

>>11798570
Make plastic there

>>11798565
Eventually it’s gonna reach a point where just using a printer arm is infeasable due to scale of the building and the possibility of compromising the entire structure if you need to tear a wall to build a skybridge to another tower or a rooftop conservatory
LEGO piece has the rearranging concept built into it

What is the consensus on buying the ISS LEGO model, assembling it and having it in your room as a full grown adult male in your 20’s? Assuming the rest of the room is fine

>>11798570
>Ain't no plastic on Mars.
But you can produce biocrude oil via hydrothermal liquefaction of organic waste (shit, tree leaves, wood from old habitat trees, inedible Organically etc.)
That you can make into polymers

>>11798585
Get a son and make Legos with him

>>11798585
Having LEGO models of technical stuff is fine. I worked with a guy who had a functional LEGO model of a motorcycle engine. Was pretty cool.

>>11798538
>steel
aluminum or titanium even most likely.

>>11798587
All of that shit is fucking gold on a colony, how about not being a slave to a meme instead of building your house out of fertilizer

>>11798538
Thats tungsten anon.

>>11798451
>doesn't have the same safety problems as the shuttle
>no LES, if there is a launch problem crew is dead
>heat shield that has to be inspected/ maintained between flights

Oh my bad, elon says it's going to be so reliable that there will never be an issue. problem solved

>>11798550
Oh baby i like it

>>11798595
That’s even worse!

>>11798560
Gtfo poorfag

>>11798585
I can't even remember caring.
t./toy/

>>11798497
Kek, you hivelets are but a grain of sand on a beach compard the dyson sphere chad.

>>11798594
The bio crude is useful for plastic and the remains are suitable for fertilizer without needing to compost it first as it breaks down in an hour at most, with the leftover nutrient water being fertilizer or biogas plant feedstock
It does the fertilizer processing for you a lot faster, no oxygen needed and nets you very useful hydrocarbons
It’s kind of pointless to not use it in a full on town

>>11798604
the megastructure is unstable and should collapse into a blackhole. That is not a realistic dyson sphere.

>>11798596
>heat shield that has to be inspected/ maintained between flights
Every heat-shield has to be inspected before flight, and unlike the Shuttle heat-shield Starship's tiles are sturdier than packaging foam.

>>11798596
Don't make a rocket with foam covered in pure autism for TPS, stick a couple of rickety solids and a giant piece of shit hydrogen tank on it and watch them all try to destroy each other every single launch, and you won't need an LES because you didn't make a piece of fucking shit rocket in the first place fuck the shuttle and fuck you

>>11798585
The Lego Saturn V I have is always something my friends love to look at. Never felt childish to me.

t. 20-something aerospace major

>>11798596
too bad for you, each heat shield doesn't have to be individually taken off and inspected.
>no LES, if there is a launch problem crew is dead
Good thing starship won't be a shit rocket and will likely rely on hundreds of flights before there is even a crewed variant.

>>11798616
That is one thing I regret not getting before it went out of production and I'm old enough to be your father.

>>11798608
>you can still use the leftovers
Of course you can, you could have used the rest too if you hadn't decided to build your house out of it. You're still intentionally adding a constant drain on your own supply of raw resources.

>>11798616
How’s aerospace going? Hope you find a job in a few years anon. I’m going into my senior year and I’m worried i’ll either be stuck in academia or at an oil company. Want to put my geology degree to planetary use

>>11798611
The blame dyson sphere is made by a Tier 2 civilization, the main character walks around with a hand gun that shoots gravity wells.
The 40k Imperium of Man would go "nope" when coming in contact with the blame dysonsphere and get the fuck out of there.

>>11798626
Just get one of the various model kits, I got the Smithsonian one some years back for around $40, not the sturdiest but all the stages come apart correctly apart from the fairing which flops out to the sides on little rails. If you don't want to bother building it I'm sure there's a straight toy/model of it somewhere for sale.

>>11798631
I am president of my rocket club and I do yearly club tours at Hawthorne since I study close by. It's like being in that first room in Willy Wonka where everything is made of candy when you go. Definitely the field to be in in this decade!

>>11798613
>>11798614
you guys are right. i'm just shitting on the lack of LES bc it's going to get a bunch of redditors blown up or something and then congress is going to shut down spacex

>>11798635
They have gravity weaponry but it’s really old and they have no idea how it works

>>11798643
Yeah, I've been thinking about getting into Revell kits again, but's it's such a fucking pain. The 50th anniversary moonlanding models were nice though.

>>11798627
No
The biomass you have would need to go through a month of oxygen consuming composting just to be useful for fertilizer plus you would need polymers for other objects in a colony besides a pressure vessel
HTL takes an hour To process to make the hydrocarbons that would be very useful in a colony AND you get ready to use fertilizer in that same hour

https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/energies/energies-11-02695/article_deploy/energies-11-02695.pdf
Using HTL to process nonedible organics gives you a much better return on investment than the traditional way you’re suggesting

>>11798655
Last time I checked my paints I was met with a box of totally dried testors bottles coated in dust.
I kinda want a finished detailed toy, but those tend to be pretty pricey. If you got money to throw around though, this one looks damn nice.
http://www.3a16.com/bandai-otona-no-chogokin-1144-apollo-13-saturn-v-launch-vehicle-p-2233.html

>spend another 5 hours today setting up KSP mods, now with RO + 10.625x GPP + whole fucking bunch of other shit and a million compat configs
>finally have something that should hypothetically work
>waiting for KSP to finish loading to see if it actually does
pray for me boys

>>11798669
Costly, but very nice.

>>11798646
The reality is implementing an LES for SS would balloon the project so much that we wouldn't have a near-future manned spaceflight program outside of oldspace memes anyway. You take some acceptable risk or you do nothing.

That, and if we give it an honest appraisal and look at past performance as a guideline, SS is much more likely to fail on descent. LES ain't gonna save you when you're flaring a few meters off the ground.

>>11798677
>SS is much more likely to fail on descent. LES ain't gonna save you when you're flaring a few meters off the ground.
just give it one of these, problem solved

>>11798668
>The biomass you have would need to go through a month of oxygen consuming composting just to be useful for fertilizer
Time and oxygen are not limiting factors, they're available almost everywhere. Biomass is a limiting factor.
>plus you would need polymers for other objects
Which would be less than 1% of the raw material demand compared to this.

>>11798216
Depends on how we can fix spacesuits

>>11798671
Stockchads rise up.

>>11798683
skintight spacesuits so I can masturbate to the first humans walking on mars when?

>>11798635
yeah and the hulk can eat more ass than bat man. This is /sfg/ not fap about who has a higher power level.

>>11798688
just wanted those sexy low orbits that you can't get on stock size planet, but then rescaling planets sent me down hell hole of rescaling everything else in the entire fucking game and it never ends

>>11798689
Even just less bulky ones. Think early space race

>>11798691
>40k fags shit up the thread all the time
>somebody posts a more powerfull fictional franchise
>get mad.
Kek

When do you guys think theyll start to make gateway

>>11798702
all depends who will win the next election, real work will only start on it if trump wins.
For now they are just cashing in tax money checks and crunching numbers.

>>11798702
2030 at the earliest.

>>11798706

daily reminder to vote in the interest of space exploration

>>11798714
Its one of the many reasons I am voting that way. I hate the SLS but i still want to see it come to fruition

>>11798708
Really? That fucking sucks

>>11798724
It's just my estimation, but it seems like SLS might only launch every 2-1.5 years. That means by the time the first three Artemis missions and Europa Clipper are done, it would be 2026 at the earliest. Further delays are probably going to happen to get the Gateway modules ready. So 2030 seems like a reasonable, albeit pessimistic, estimate for when Gateway will start.

That is of course assuming that Starship doesn't come into play by then.

>>11798740
Gateway modules are already scheduled to launch on Falcon Heavy with a modified fairing.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/05/06/nasa-plans-to-launch-first-two-gateway-elements-on-same-rocket/

>>11798515
>SLS only uses HL at sea level- AND has SRB’s.
what? the core stage burns all the way to near-obit, and drops ICPS/EUS off in a 1800 by 93km suborbital trajectory. Then the upper stage just needs to execute a tiny circularization burn.

>>11798701
fuck both those franchises. Arguing about which is a more powerful franchise has no place in /sfg/. Arguing about which franchise is more powerful is something onions eaters do.
But yeah, an OW! the edge! tower ain't realistic either. Lack of maintenance would cause spectacular failure.

>>11798682
So is carbon, your gonna have industrial amounts of methane to fuel starship from Mars to earth early on
Methylococcus capsulatus Would feed off an insignificant portion of that and methane created by biogas generation of initial human waste, you would eat that, your fish and aquatic livestock for aquaponics would eat that, you would eat them and plants you grow from them
The waste would go back into the system by generating methane
Carbon is a nonissue from the beginning as it will be recycled and more will be brought into the system as the town expands
The only issue would be getting rid of enough waste fast enough and getting hydrocarbons for other industrial processes, which HTL/biogas reactor would excel at, as opposed to letting it sit in a septic tank for a month before processing to make it into fertilizer
You’re arguing against a system that would solve infrastructure issues with little to no issue

>>11798465
Well Heavy industrial machine manufacturers did have a meeting with SpaceX so I bet they are already designing machines that can be easily moved with starship.

>>11798759
>So is carbon
Carbon isn't a limitation on Mars, but we don't even know where carbon deposits are on the Moon or how much there is.
Biomass is also not just lumps of carbon. Nitrogen is a trace gas on Mars and extremely rare on the moon. Phosphorous is geologically limited but available on the Moon (it's still going to be highly valuable).
>You’re arguing against a system that would solve infrastructure issues with little to no issue
I'm arguing against solving a non-issue by compromising the weakest and hungriest pillar of your colony, its biosphere. There are dozens of ways to make a wall. Growing a tree on a colony is a much more intensive endeavor.

>hydrolox

>>11798784
Wait what? Source?

>>11798515
are they even making more RS-25 engines? Or is SLS basically a rube goldberg inventory disposal program

>>11797893
Arianespace is going to push for one to be approved in 2022, supposedly.
>>11797903
>The European Space Agency (ESA) is Europe’s gateway to space. Its mission is to shape the development of Europe’s space capability and ensure that investment in space continues to deliver benefits to the citizens of Europe and the world.
>>11797941
Ariane 5 is human-rated. They were working on a crew module with the Russians, but decided to pull out.

>>11798742
That would be really good, we need to start it quickly and the SLS block 1b won't be ready for awhile.

>>11798805
>are they even making more RS-25 engines?
Yes. Engines that were originally $40M each and are now $146M each.

>>11798702
well it's planned for 2024, so i'm guessing 2032 or so since oldspace is heavily involved

>>11798841
How on gods green earth do they justify using that money? How much does a Raptor cost?
It honestly looks like criminal waste

>>11798837
i still can't wrap my head around the fact that they still can't build a fucking rocket. did they just forget how or something?

>>11798860
SLS isn't a rocket program, it's a jobs program. Everyone involved is motivated to be as slow as possible because they get more money that way.

>>11798864
That's why Jim Bridenstine mentioning NASA was moving to fixed-price-per-ton for moon cargo delivery was so big. It's a complete inversion of the prior model. Shelby probably had a stroke when he found out.

>>11798860
Everyone who did know got old and died waiting for rocketry to get approval to progress beyond Apollo.

>>11798867
This is all coming from my head as pure speculation but as part of his job, he has to visit factories to do status checks. I’m sure when he visits Elon at SpaceX it’s like going into Wonka’s factory- a kid in a candy shop. When he visits BOEING! I’m sure it’s just dreadful and he gets nothing but excuses and sees nothing of importance being done

>>11798860
I can't wrap my head around them using old tech for it too. I would think it would at least be impressive.

>>11798876
Imagine how much fucking ass kissing old space probably does during those visits.

>>11798893
Complimentary BJs and handies on every visit.

>>11798596
An LES would not have saved the Challenger crew. Those only work in specific circumstances.
>heat shield that has to be inspected/ maintained between flights
Starship doesn't use 23,000 tiles or whatever, and doesn't sit on the side of a tank so that debris can fall on it.

>>11798876
>>11798893
Yeah I imagine Elon doesn’t even need to tell his factory when Jim is visiting because they’re always working at max efficiency. Boeing probably gives them a week’s notice and tells all contractors to show up and pretend to be working