/sci/ - Science & Math

>Explanation: NGC 2359 is a helmet-shaped cosmic cloud with wing-like appendages popularly called Thor's Helmet. Heroically sized even for a Norse god, Thor's Helmet is about 30 light-years across. In fact, the helmet is more like an interstellar bubble, blown as a fast wind from the bright, massive star near the bubble's center inflates a region within the surrounding molecular cloud. Known as a Wolf-Rayet star, the central star is an extremely hot giant thought to be in a brief, pre-supernova stage of evolution. NGC 2359 is located about 15,000 light-years away in the constellation of the Great Overdog. The remarkably sharp image is a mixed cocktail of data from broadband and narrowband filters using three different telescopes. It captures natural looking stars and the details of the nebula's filamentary structures. The predominant bluish hue is strong emission from doubly ionized oxygen atoms in the glowing gas.

>>11794295
Jesus, forget expendable battleships, that's like building an aircraft carrier and scuttling it after a single mission.

What keeps you hopeful for space flight, /sfg/?

For me it's the rise of space agencies and space companies who aren't part of the "old guard". After Apollo, space flight has been held back pretty much because there was only one major group within space flight who had the capability of doing more, but for various reasons couldn't. Now with agencies from China and India, and companies like SpaceX and (hopefully) Blue Origin, it doesn't matter if the "old guard" continues to flounder because there are others who are capable of moving on. It's also not just that there is an alternative agency, but there are alternative agencies with diverse skill sets and goals. Meaning that at least one can find a way to move on no matter what.

>>11794319
well a new Gerald R Ford costs around 12 billion USD

>>11794324
Objective progress in the field keeps me hopeful.
>>11794333
Wow, so for the price of an CV which will probably be around for the next 50+ years you can launch a whole 6 SLS.

>>11794333
Imagine an SLS that costs 12 billion...

>>11794343
I think SLS would be more reasonable if it launched twice a year, and they actually figured something out with the RS-25E without paying the aerojews upwards of 100 million. But then again, there's not really any demand for that many SLS missions.

>>11794343
I'm not sure which cost is more outrageous desu, but at least the Ford can be used twice.

>>11794324
The cynical part of me thinks Washington deliberately axed the Saturn V to prevent people from creating comparison images like this and asking pointed questions about our government's priorities until the nonwhite fraction of the population was enough to give Democrats a permanent toehold on power.

>>11794354
that pic makes me rage like nothing else, there will be nothing left but ruins by 2100. It's not gonna get better.

>>11794324
The amazing progress in the SLS program and the prospects that one day in the future maybe I could witness the very first tiny steps toward building the very first experimental SEP module that could in the future take astronauts into deep space.

did they catch the fairings?

>>11794293
I am an embedded software engineer working at a defense contractor. What topics should I study to increase my chances of landing a job in aerospace?

>>11794354
>Washington deliberately axed the Saturn V
The main driver behind cancelling Saturn and the rest of the Apollo Applications Program post-Skylab was perceived cost and Nixon‘a desire to distance himself from Kennedy/Johnson’s space policy. Congress genuinely assumed the STS would be significantly cheaper at the time.

>>11794373
fizzbuzz

>>11794354
Nah. Washington killed Apollo and nearly all associated technology because they were scared that NASA would push for more deep space insolvent resulting in a program that would cost even more than Apollo. Killing any BEO capabilities beyond probes kept NASA in check.

>>11794368
DST and SEP could be kino if they actually prioritize it after 2024. The future of NASA could lie in researching plasma thrusters and power generation, given that SpaceX doesn't seem to give a fuck about nonchemical propulsion.

>>11794366
Fuck off doomer racist

>>11794390
SpaceX is about becoming an interplanetary species, not about the fastest skeleton in the universe.

>>11794366
Don't worry. Once the riots are over, then few people would even remember why they happened. Just like how most people don't really care about Treyvon Martin anymore. Meanwhile progress in space flight is continuing on regardless.

look at this piece of shit.

That's supposed to fly at super high almost supersonic speed? YIKES!

>>11794394
>racist

>>11794407
Which prototype is that for? SN6?

>>11794390
Look man the sep ain't meant to go to mercury its a meme.
Burned hydrocarbons just smell better and are awesome.

>two thousand and twenty years later
>still depending on fuckin chemical rockets to get anywhere
yo wtf bro this shit wack

>>11794414
Who knows. They are preparing a bopper test tank supposedly made with new steel and some welding improvements. If they don't like their current work sn5 and sn6 might never touch those.

>>11794422
It's like the wheels bro they just work. Wouldn't mind a hoverboard myself but you gotta take what you can.

>>11794324
The fact that Elon is so popular gov't can't just ground him. And he's been dong good work at getting buddy with the political establishment. I've got half a mind the whole reopening push on his part was to get closer to trump. Trump is hook line and sinker for this guy.

>>11794422
As it turns out, releasing the energy held in chemical bonds has the right combination of accessibility and efficiency to be practical for spaceflight. There’s no reason to believe this will be any different for a long time to come.

If the chinks stepped up their space game and went for the Moon same year as NASA we could get a new space race

You know Trump doesn’t want to get beaten by the chinks and will increase the NASA budget by 9000% overnight kek

>>11794422
Didn’t know Jesus had rocket engines

>>11794353
Actually I think that American CVs are a pretty good deal considering what's going on inside of them. The Ford class, once it's fully kitted out will not only run off of a new generation of highly advanced naval atomic reactor but also do away with the steam catapult system and switch over to a new electrically powered rail catapult, as well as (I think) being built from the ground up to integrate a LAMS.
Considering how long boats tend to live before becoming too decrepit to float, I'd say it's not an excessive cost.

>>11794466
How else could he have ascended to heaven?

>>11794473
Must have been an alien. That was part of the premise of Prometheus which Ridley Scott has discussed.

>>11794471
>new electrically powered rail catapult
Shiny and new, cool. And yeah these things tend to last a long-ass time while projecting military power around the world. All SLS does is cost more than if we used actual money as the propellant.

>>11794482
>All SLS does is cost more than if we used actual money as the propellant.
Well that's one way to contract the money supply.

>>11794482
literal paper rockets when

>>11794490
$RB

Do you guys think that NASA could use a Starship to launch a probe to Planet 9 (assuming Planet 9 exists)

>>11794453
This race is being played by different rules. It's a race for actual dominance in space, not symbolic dominance like last time with Russia. No matter what, China will keep going. The US getting back to the Moon won't stop them, neither will a Mars landing.

>>11794538
China is a dead end.

Anyone here have experience with weather balloons? Seems like a cool thing to do, and if you do it with a couple of friends it isn't that expensive.

>>11794324
>The new generation of partially-reusable rockets is making spaceflight incrementally cheaper, and that should continue with each new generation of rockets.
>While nationalism probably plays a role in Artemis as it did in Apollo, it is built largely on companies who see opportunity in sustained presence rather than a way to get government money. NASA is increasingly amicable to these companies.
>We have broken the shackles of the Shuttle. While the SLS once threatened to shackle NASA in the same way, they're now diversifying with other vehicles. This includes the Starship, which takes the lessons learned from the Shuttle and puts them towards a worthy successor.
>Probable space race with China. There are some undesirable implications of this too (space militarization, China profiting off space), but the end result is more budget and more exploration.

>>11794536
Not currently existing makes it quite hard to guess.
Unless it's wildly novel compared to other dwarf planets I doubt it. Whether it's a single entity or a massive dust cloud remains to be seen anyway

>>11794536
What’s your line of thinking here, just curious? Why would starship be different and allow us to get there
Unfortunately no, we couldn’t. Mainly because we don’t really know where planet 9 is (if it even exists at all)

>>11794536
An atlas 5 with the 552 configuration probably could

>>11794406
It's a symptom of a culture war against capitalism though, which we may be slowly but surely losing. You need countries to be rich, and in liberal democracies to have high standards of living, to frontier into space. I don't think china could replace the west, look at the state of their technology before they opened their economy, though couldn't even make their own reliable automobiles.

Someone redpill me on Harold White. He works in NASA’s Eagleworks division at Johnson. His whole job is to research experimental stuff like EM Drives and Warp Drives. Is he a smart man looking to propel us into the future, or is he a genius who convinced the guberment to pay him when he doesn’t really have to ever get results or do anything

>>11794626
so thats where mulder went after he left the FBI

>>11794626
I thought he left NASA to found his own company.

>>11794637
I think you’re right.

>>11794626
Seems like his job is to be the 'Hail Mary' of NASA. Most likely he won't find anything revolutionary, but it's best to have at least someone look into those things just to be sure.

>>11794626
>His whole job is to research experimental stuff like EM Drives and Warp Drives.
Bet he does nothing but smoke pot and listen to VDDG all day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASM6dozyyhU

>>11794626
I’d love to see him interviewed on Rogan or something like that. It’s hard to get a sense of how legit he is based solely on what’s been published.

>>11794626
The DoD snaps up crank propulsion projects all the time

I bet if any of them turned out to be the real deal, it would be a secret for 20+ years. Then one random day in a war with a random middle east country it'll be like "oh yeah we had anti gravity the whole time lmao"

>>11794626
This portrait is comfy. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but the lighting reminds me of I used to think of as a kid when someone talked about “science”. I think it’s because it reminds me of watching Bill Nye in science class for some reason
Anyways... his job is certainly important because NASA might as well have the division. He doesn’t do “mad scientist”’experiments, just small tabletop experiments for proof-of-concept. And I don’t know if it’s just considered a meme but I REALLY want EM Drives and Alcubierre Drives to work because the implications would be, well, we could have a star trek/ star citizen society where you could take off in an atmosphere like a shuttlepod and get to our neighboring stars in a matter of weeks

No word on the fairing catch attempt? I'm going to assume they missed again.

Fuck off /pol/tards

at least it didn't break apart! that's progress.

>>11794553
Sorry, I've only got experience with UFOs.

>>11794660
That's basically what they did with stealth tech in the 70s.

>>11794705
He didnt fly so good

>>11794705
>>11794718
What am I looking at here?

>>11794705
>dat flip
It's just like my first KSP launches.

>>11794723
MOMO-5 not flying so good around the time it hit Max-Q. Some sparky bits flew off the engine before it did a flip. There's something fundamentally wrong with that ethanol engine design of theirs. It keeps rupturing fuel lines or blowing up nozzles and whatnot. Whether it's the mix or whatever, no idea.

>>11794422
I hate braindead morons like this. there's no viable alternative to chemical rockets for lifting things into space

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eMeSGx-m1M
Rewind about 35-36 minutes if you want to watch MOMO-5 do a flip.

>>11794732
Stream ended now.
https://youtu.be/0eMeSGx-m1M?t=2680 - launch

https://youtu.be/0eMeSGx-m1M?t=2720 - sparks coming out of the engine

https://youtu.be/0eMeSGx-m1M?t=2750 - Pointy bit down, firey bit up.

>>11794473
magnets

>>11794744
Omg it’s the missing link why haven’t rocket scientists thought of this before??

>>11794626
I liked his talk on Alcubierre drives and quantum vacuum thrusters. If you've taken a differential geometry/ manifolds class, the slide at 9:45 is pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wokn7crjBbA

>>11794582
Well because Starship can carry more mass to orbit it could launch a probe with more fuel

>>11794729
>It's just like my first KSP launches.
Just like my KSP launches now before unlocking better probes.

>>11794536
>>11794778
It took the Voyager probes DECADES to get out to 1500AU. We need something faster than chemical rockets.

>>11794796
To be fair, as soon as Starship is operational much larger probes with their own build-in propulsion systems could be launched now with much faster arrival times.

>>11794794
Throttle down.

>>11794803
A kilopower reactor and some Hall thrusters would probably work for that, then.

>>11794796
Launch vehicles will never need to be faster than chemical rockets. You're confusing the probe and the launch stage.

>>11794805
>can't bro, it's SRB's to orbit

>>11794823
>training wheels
Well, you're asking for it. Use a mix if you have to.

>>11794805
I do. The issue is that my rockets tend to be Falcon 9 shaped and will oscillate as I try to do the gravity turn.

>>11794828
Always be strutting

>>11794828
If you oscillate on the gravity turn you're too light in the ass and all your control surface is probably down on the ass. Try to add some smaller fins to the top if you absolutely have to for starters or just get better at controlling your yaw and throttle.
SRBs get REALLY light when they're burning out as the guy here >>11794836 also says, strut strut strut, whether it's auto or manually. Wobbly rockets don't fly straight and you need to know what you're doing to wrangle those up.

>>11794836
Also I am the type of person who uses RCS even in the atmosphere to keep my rocket stable. I found out you can store Those round RCS tanks next to your engines on the bottom of each rocket stage

>>11794836
I guess I'm using too few of those.

>>11794841
Thanks. Most of the issue is that I'm still early in a Science save so the probes don't have alot of control authority. Also, I'm not using SRBs.

>>11794854
I'll consider that once I unlock RCS. Thanks for the idea.

>>11794731
Why not?

Just reading through a bit, here's some blast from the past.

>https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/shooting-the-moon
>circa 2005

>>11794861
any alternative to chemical rockets is science fiction for the foreseeable future

>>11794854
You can stick anything inside anything. Use the move tool when you build. I stick all trash like that inside.

>>11794859
Yeah, nothing I posted there requires an unlocked tech tree. Either way, remember, you get lighter the higher you go, so if you get wobbly and flip when you're about to gravity turn, chances are you have control surfaces low on your rocket, but the rocket is does no longer have the same center of gravity due to being almost dry at that point, so you need different control surfaces. It's always a balancing act.

If it's just a "my first clunker into orbit", I might do 2x 4 fins just for an easy ride. Smallest set of fins on the top.

>>11794866
It is with that attitude mister

>>11794869
>You can stick anything inside anything
Kerbal Sex Project

>>11794884
Move tool is a powerful thing. Most people don't know how much you can fuck with things with it and end up with useless rockets.

>>11794859
>unlock RCS
do people actually play anything other than sandbox? I got the game in 2012 (0.16 i think) and dicked around in science mode when it first came out, but now when I get the itch to play once a month I just go balls to the walls sandbox. Having to grind through a campaign sounds retarded.

>>11794892
I used to play just sandbox for the fun to use whatever I want, but lately I've been playing science and career for the challenge of using less optimal parts.

god why do these retards have to keep updating KSP without actually adding anything useful but just making it a fucking nightmare sorting out mod compatibility

>>11794892
If you want to play it like a game, then yes. It's fun to start out with a barebone space center and literally scrap from Jeb's and having to do contracts and meet milestones to build a space program.
And your kerbals are as useless as a basic probe at first too.

>>11794892
I play science mode because I like to autistically gather all the science from every biome

>>11794892

>>11794861
Not that guy, but there exists no other solution for launch that would actually provide higher cadence and cheaper launch a fully reusable chemical rocket. It might not seem that way because a good fully reusable rocket design seemed like an impossibility for so long, but SS is going to completely shatter all of the dreaming that has built up from that era. Launch is boring and easy, people will move on to real problems.

>>11794903
I guess I do miss using Jeb's 1.25m parts, those were our bread and butter. I still remember when the 2.5m rockomax big orange tank was added in like 0.18, it seemed huge.

>>11794926
The Orion capsule is like twice the diameter of the Rockomax tanks

>>11794926
Sandbox is sandbox, but career mode is more of a game with a purpose even though it's not much of a purpose. They really didn't do a good job on that with KSP.

>>11794910
Imagine being in a spacecraft with about as much internal space as a corolla for days having to share it with two other astronauts only to get in your lander that has more room than most college apartments.

I always though the current KSP tanks looked retarded on a deep space vessel, I'm gonna try to use the near future and cryogenic mods to make a sexy spaceship with big old round tanks and structural components. Never really played those mods but the imgur album is kino
https://imgur.com/a/PmTTebZ

>>11794947
sexy

Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but since the RPA website doesn't really have a forum I have nowhere else to ask.

I downloaded the evaluation copy for Rocket Propulsion Analysis, however the components window for the propellants does not load. This happens for both v1.2 and v2.3 for Windows. My computer runs Windows 10. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Do you have a solution to this? Thanks in advance.

Picture related, what it shows me when I try to select propellants for both oxidizer and fuel.

>>11794948
Those tanks are one of the go-to mods I always install, along with stuff like procedural parts. Just remember to load them up with battery packs and solar panels to keep them cool.

>>11795022
A small reactor does the job really well if you have near future electrical, and is needed if anything past Duna

>>11794796
Ever heard of the parker solar probe? It will reach 430k mph by 2025. That is 11 times faster then voyager 1. Imagine what probes launched by starship could do.

>>11795146
>Imagine what probes launched by starship could do.
Carry fusion torches and big fucking antennae to reach Alpha Centauri in 100 years.

>>11795154
We could probably get something like breakthrough starshot done for much cheaper, considering it'd be pretty easy to build a massive solar array to power a space based laser array to propel lightsails. Only issue is that could be used as a super powerful weapon.

>>11795160
>Only issue is that could be used as a super powerful weapon.
Any interstellar propulsion tech has that problem. Clearly we need to annihilate China and the entire Muslim world before we build one.

>>11794422
Well, Mr. Double dubs
We could do something like a rocket version of an indirect cycle HTRE

Damn, if the parker solar probe was sent in a jupiter intercept trajectory from earth, it'd only take around 180 days to reach it. Pretty insane.

>>11795180
to be fair a jupiter flyby would be next to useless in the 21st century

>>11795180
If only it had the onboard delta-V to slow down and enter orbit.

>>11794567
Downsides:
>how much tax money will be left after nigger reparations?

>>11795182
Ayo whachu say, Earf boy?

>>11795189
If only.
>>11795182
Agreed, but a uranus or neptune flyby wouldn't be, especially if the probe was able to fly past the unmapped side of triton.

>>11795191
SpaceX doesn't entirely rely on taxes.

>>11795193
fuck off you big useless orb

>>11795195
Good idea. expendable falcon heavy uranus mission when

When we get to Mars, where will the wreck to get proton missiles and interstellar drive be? Will Starship's radar be able detect it?

>>11795200
Apparently the parker solar probe would take around 14 years to reach neptune, from earth.

>>11795200
>expendable falcon heavy uranus mission when
Wait for Starship.
>50t of payload
>50t of fusion torch and fuel
That might be able to slow down.

I wonder how dark the far outer solar system is (beyond 50 astronomical units). Theoretically, would you be able to see space the way it is depicted in this artwork without having to be behind an astronomical body?

>>11795178
That's not an indirect cycle HTRE though, and the indirect cycle aircraft reactor turned out to be too heavy. That's a direct cycle engine, you can see with the pipes that air goes straight into the front inlets and from there directly into the reactor, then directly out of the base of the reactor to the exhaust nozzles of the engine. All solid-core NTPRs are direct cyclers too.
An indirect cycle drive will waste too much of it's heat on the hot loop to "cold" loop heat exchanger which itself will add substantial mass and kill the drive's TWR.

>>11795214
stuff is not that bright
milky way looks like a faint white smudge if you're in space looking at it with your own eyes
with nothing blocking the view

>>11795239
I've seen the milky way in person, and while it isn't as bright as in that image, it is still pretty bright and detailed for a deep sky object. Looked like this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mPlPIGnWsI.. I wonder how far out in space you'd have to go to see the milky way like that.

>>11795214
Nah, I mean you'll be able to see the galactic arm clearer than you could in a night sky, but all that detail would require a camera and some more exposure time.

>>11795255
Yeah I know it wouldn't be that bright, but how far out would you have to go to see the milky way as detailed as it is in the video I linked on this post?
>>11795252

>>11795202
Grox war when?

>>11794538
What is bigger deal than landing human on Mars this century? It will be the first time human walking on a planet which don't affect by Earth's gravity.

>>11795315
Sending humans to the outer solar system.

What are some good counterargument to people who think that space flight should entirely be done by probes and that manned space flight is just meme? They argue that sending someone into space will always be too expensive and risky no matter what is done, and that a probe taking a year to do a surface sample is superior to a manned mission doing an entire geological survey in a week.

>>11795321
"Wait and see."
Literally the only thing left to say. You can't cure willful ignorance with arguments. As you already pointed out they actively reject reality.

>>11795321
Tell them that their job should be automated as well

>>11795321
You can place more versatile instruments and monitors with humans. One example is the seismic experiments done on the Moon during the Apollo missions.

It is extremely difficult to get seismic readings on Mars as we cannot actually position seismic measurement stations underground on Mars. The insight probe is measuring right now but is on the surface so it has a lot of wind noise. In comparison Apollo astronauts mapped out the entire interior of the Moon in the 70’s with old technology seismometers.

The same is the case for other types of measurement fields. Getting probes into caves on Mars is also a lot harder than just having astronauts do it.

>>11795321
Starship will most likely equal the cost of rovers and manned missions. Of course with something as far away as Mars we’ll still have to launch logistics stuff like shelters and food. But whatever, $2 mil per launch is nothing. At that point the only thing left is “human risk”, and if geologists/engineers/explorers are willing to risk THEIR lives consensually, why does it matter

Question for everybody here.

tourist or colonist?

>>11795380
Tourist

>>11795380
Colonist, if anything. Tourism requires some sort of sentimentality for experiences and memories that I don't have.

>>11795380
Work Visa with an expiration date.

>>11795380
Colonist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X04ibyZZc0&list=PL4AIG34oU42vN7V6uw1pLMEwNrcemqB58

>>11795380
Sovereign.
Exchange your current flag for mine, follow the directives of these corporate officers I've brought with me, and hand over coordinates for all your local deposits of fissile materials.

>>11795380
Space pirate using meme sails to outrun chemical rockets.

>>11795425
Good luck with that lmao, do you know how long it takes to build that kind of velocity with a sail

>>11795425
>literally everyone in the solar system can see you from the flare off your fuckhuge reflective sail
good luck getting within 1AU of anything valuble without getting nuked/having an oversized lazer pointer aimed at you, causing you to slam into phobos

>>11795442
A plasma magnet sail can do half a g away from the sun with 30m superconducting saddle coils, hence "meme sail."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vVOtrAnIxM

>>11794892
what kind of campaigns do you do?

i just think its shitty overall because the general game mechanics dont let you quickly and easily use gravity assistance to get to places which makes any mission you do wildly unrealistic

>>11795146
>photorealistic insignia
Why does this design piss me off so much, I hate it.

>>11795496
>graphic design is my passion.png

I bet some of this rotating red mercurry/tesla energy shit actually worked and the glowies just btfod the knowledge behind 10 layers of classifieds and redactions.

>>11795496
>>11795498
Even the 4ASS logo looks better. I would say they were being lazy, but trimming images would've taken more effort than drawing a simplified probe.

>>11795504
>Even the 4ASS logo looks better
/sfg/ is better than NASA at some things.

>>11795380
Colonist. Fuck this gay earth.

>>11795380
Colonist, at least for a time. I have a wife and kids (30 year old boomer), but I'd be willing to part with them for three years or so to travel to Mars and do my part to establish the colony

>>11795496
No way this is official. This looks like shit

>>11795202
Well it's always in the last place you look.

>>11795465
Dude why has this not been funded properly holy shit

>>11795364
>Getting probes into caves on Mars
That first spelunking will be god damn terrifying. Just on the odd chance you find ayy lmaos fossilized...or alive.

>>11795572
Just chuck a ton of shitty lighting and camera bots in first and you know what to expect

>>11795572
>Dude is broadcasting his spelunk live
>Walks into cavern, full of facehugger eggs
>Last image is a facehugger jumping him

>>11795577
Too ambitious for oldspace.

>>11795572
I know so many geology professors at my university who are like, 60+ years old and they still go out to half dome and nevada and stuff and propel down walls to take samples. Geologists are a different breed man. Just give them some beer on mars and they’ll spelunk into any lava tube system nearby

>>11795583
>Walks into cavern, full of furries
>Last image is a space wolf jumping him
FTFY

>>11795572
Make sure to try to pet any penis cobras you find!

>>11795587
Ah, by that time furry will be a recognized gender and have a crew member quota.

>>11795585
I'd fucking love to do that shit. Too bad I chose physics.

>>11795587
>Drop the rock

>>11795380
Colonist, first to mars, but eventually I plan to leave for the outer solar system and potentially be part of the first titan colonists.

>>11795465
>plasma magnet sail
What the fuck why has this not been discussed on /sfg/ more often?

>>11795380
Elons indentured servant ticket

Get me the fuck off this planet asap

>>11795380
What sort of careers would have the best shot at being accepted as colonists? People won't be sent there to do work that's just as easily done on Earth.

I hope breakthrough starshot works out. Not only will it allow exploration of near stars, but it will also allow us to launch thousands of cheap, low speed (still high speed compared to modern probes) exploratory probes to places too minor or too far to be considered for major missions by NASA (like Sedna). It'll also lay the first groundwork for interstellar laser highways

I hear that deuterium can be "mined" from the atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn, but are there any actual concepts of spacecraft or structures to facilitate this?

>>11795604
There's nothing just as easily done on Earth when Earth is two years and six months away. They'll need people for pretty much everything.

>>11795604
Take the tradepill, electrical, gas/plumbing, welding, etc...

>>11795587
>>11795593
>4ASS sends the Junkyard Special to a colony mission to Mars, away from the normalfags
>It passes a presumed asteroid until it does a burn to intercept
>Oh shit nigger.quartzdisk
>The craft gets closer, the Long Knot, the infamous Space Wolf flagship comes into contact
>The Long Knot sticks to the Junkyard Special and holes are cut open in the bulkhead
>/K/ommander shouts “WE’VE GOT BOARDERS!” and everyone grabs their guns
>The power armour fursuits stride on the deck
>”It seems we’ve got guests that wanna play òwó”
>Melee ensues
>Asteroid showers passing by knock the Junkyard special off coarse
>The ship starts leaking hydrogen sulfide from the stasis chambers
>Everyone’s exosuit, Space Wolf and 4ASS alike hope into torpor
>Ship gets flung it into interstellar space
>Crashes onto a habitable world
>/Out/ist and /An/imal’s samples and experiments leak out and create a biosphere
>Some of the animal embryos mixed with cumjars in an unholy and impossible evolution
>The planet now has a species of actual furries in a Neolithic state that visited here before
>Everyone wakes up in this new world, and both resume their old conflict
>The furfag wars have begun

>>11795567
>>11795600
Shitty boosters, basically. It's been tested on the ground and seems to work, but like any magsail it needs to exit Earth's magnetosphere to be useful for acceleration rather than braking. Since we don't have a lot of good ground stations pointing towards the poles that means pushing out to the moon if not further before switching the magnet on. That means a dedicated Falcon 9, a Falcon Heavy rideshare, or an expendable booster for now, which means LOADSAMONEY.

Also the 0.5g acceleration requires almost a kilometer of YBCO wire (4x saddle coils arranged in a cylinder, cylindrical diameter 30m) and a bigger spacecraft, so the first experiments will probably be the more modest 10kg version.

https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2017/12/29/the-plasma-magnet-drive-a-simple-cheap-drive-for-the-solar-system-and-beyond/

>>11795610
Basically you use chandelier colonies suspended from an orbital ring at an altitude so that people experience ~1g, and then use a series of tubes to pull in atmosphere for processing. Neptune in particular has a bunch of He3 and deuterium and other volatiles, and has a band reasonably close to atmosphere with 1g natural gravity. Isaac Arthur did a video on this.

>>11795653
>Also the 0.5g acceleration requires almost a kilometer of YBCO wire

That is actually not really very much at all. This is amazing stuff.

>>11795380
colonist if I find a wife to come with by the time it stars or if they assign me one. tourist otherwise

>>11795465
Uh, is this legit? It opens up the whole system like a fucking long airplane ride if true.

>>11795321
>What are some good counterargument to people who think that space flight should entirely be done by probes
I only have the one.

>>11795653
>Isaac Arthur did a video on this.
Which one?

>>11795683
It is. Also the ability to run in non-rotating mode for a magnetocapture/aerocapture shield that doesn't ablate is great as well.
>point at Jupiter intercept course
>turn on sail in acceleration mode until 200km/s dV is achieved
>coast to edge of Jupiter's magnetosphere
>turn on sail in brake mode
>slow down enough for aerobraking and chemical thrusters to insert into orbit around Jupiter or a moon

The glaring weakness of the system is that you can't use it to accelerate sunward, but I've been thinking of a way to use secondary loop magsails oriented along the main axis of the spacecraft as steering fins to provide "lift" like in Zubrin's classic magsail paper[1]. That would let you go both inward and outward in system and circularize when you reach your destination radius, thus escaping the tyranny of launch windows.

With such a combined system the only thing you need for fast travel in arbitrary directions in the solar system is a series of either mass drivers or beamed power stations to get sunward-bound spacecraft up to ~200km/s velocity... or just to get sheared-flow-stabilized z-pinch fusion torches working and mine deuterium from the gas giants.

[1]: http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/320Zubrin.pdf

>>11795691
The plasma coupling effect has been confirmed in a lab at UW, so it sure seems promising.

>>11795699
Outward Bound: Colonizing Neptune
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb6sdimG8GE&feature=emb_title

>>11795465
You almost would still want to use it for performing a standard hohhman transfer but increasing your mass budget wildly now that you have a "reactionless" drive. This means you don't need the charged barticle beam on the other end either since you aren't going gigganigga fast.

>>11795739
Going giganigga fast is strongly desirable for manned transit and humans don't weigh that much (except your mom lmao), so I suspect it'd be like modern rail or shipping, with fast, light passenger carriers and big chungus slow freighters.

>>11795604
As far as trades go, just about anything aside from interior decorating (and maybe that too) for a remote colony. Although realistically, having a background in science and engineering would give you a better understanding and adaptability to multiple trade roles. ie, a plumber vs someone who can manage any sort of pressurized fluid/gas pipe system.

>>11795739
Makes me wonder if plasma magnet sails greatly increase the military potential of sunward colonies. WMD with no MAD.

>>11795714
What the hell is that accent? “Earwf, Staws”

>>11795752
It's a speech impediment. If you can ignore it he's got good content.

>>11795697
Based

Damn, I never realized how many celestial bodies JUICE will visit.

>>11795754
Yeah i’ve seen his channel recommended a lot but never actually watched any of his vids. I’ll binge them tonight

>>11795708
hol up
you tellin me you cant offset the angle of the magnetic field 45 degrees prograde, and not get any retrograde thrust vector to lower your orbit with respect to the sun?

>>11795766
You get used to his elmer fudd impediment pretty quick, I like him.

>>11795748
Unless you want to live on Venus (hint: you don't) that just cements Earth as the primary military power in the system, and Mars the second strongest.

>>11795768
The plasma magnet works by magnetically binding your ship to tens of cubic kilometers of ambient solar wind plasma. That's why the magnets get so much thrust for their size compared to a traditional hoop magsail, but it also means you can't steer since your plasma bubble will be roughly spherical with respect to your craft no matter which way it's actually pointing. That's why I was thinking of adding secondary hoop magsails to allow that exact sort of motion, or to drop sunward and circularize and wait for the planet to catch up with you.

>>11795748
They just accelerate them back with charged beams and fusion packets. Your weapons will be using using fusion packets to get them to a nice %c too anyway.

>>11795770
People will colonize venus anyways.

>>11794910
Why is this a webm

>>11795784
if you can get to venus or mercury, you can park in that orbit and enjoy a much quicker trip around the sun in order to line up with an exit vector to the outer planets.

fuck launch windows

I just realized my earlier calculations for how quickly the parker solar probe could reach the outer planets was all wrong. It wasn't neptune in 14 years, it is neptune in 268 days. And for that matter - it's 49.5 days to jupiter. And this is all from the sun. They should really send the parker solar probe to the outer solar system once it's solar science mission is over.

>>11795807
>neptune in 268 days
Jesus fucking Christ

>>11795807
That’s fucking fast

Okay guys help me out here, in college i switched from aerospace engineering to Aviation because a friend in the industry told me I'd be staring at a part in autocad day and night without ever seeing the final product. It was during the space blue ball period that was the Obama admin so my choice was pretty easy. Now I'm in aviation doing well but space is becoming a reality. So i was thinking my way into the field would be meteorology, are there many jobs I could find if i got a meteorology masters?

>>11795814
>>11795811
This would be a great way to launch an oort cloud exploration mission, or perhaps a sedna exploration mission. Drop a probe towards the sun, have it accelerate to insane speeds, and then launch it out into deep space. Apparently the parker solar probe could reach the inner boundary of the oort cloud (1000 astronomical units) in six years. Btw, 430000 miles per hour equates to roughly 0.006c (or 60% of 1% of light speed). So by 2025 we will have already have a spacecraft traveling at close to 1% of light speed. Pretty amazing.

>>11795827
Meant to say 24 years for inner boundary of oort cloud.

>>11795807
>It wasn't neptune in 14 years, it is neptune in 268 days. And for that matter - it's 49.5 days to jupiter. And this is all from the sun
How long did it take to get up to that speed?

>>11795817
Damn how would meteorology help besides being a Mars weatherman (if that becomes a thing)

>>11795752
You'll get used to it. Turn on captions if you need to.

>>11795831
7 years, but iirc they could of gotten to that speed much, much quicker if they wanted to. They purposely stretched it out because of the goal of the mission wasn't getting a crazy high speed, but studying the sun. If they wanted to, they could probably get it in under a year.

>>11794324
The establishment of the space force, transitions the us mindset of space from a place for government grants, to a more practical and necessary resource. More importantly it drastically changes the talent pool needed for space. Before this the only way to work in space, was to be the literal absolute best of the best. Problem is, is that if you keep this mindset, you’ll find it difficult to build up to larger projects, cause the talent pool is so limited. With space force, we’re going to start to see young (under 25) people who are extremely qualified to work in the space field, not because they have a bunch of textbook and classroom knowledge, but real world, and hands on experiences.

There’s a reason why for every profession like 80% of the stuff you need to know you learn on the job, and the space field is no different

>>11795827
>Drop a probe towards the sun, have it accelerate to insane speeds, and then launch it out into deep space

>>11795817
figuring out how to model martian weather with the differences in air density/wind speed might be a thing, but Mars could become a meme planet if everybody realizes that asteroid mining and O'Neil cylinders are way cooler.

>>11795838
>Neptune in two years travel time from Earth
That's about a quarter of Epstein Drive performance out of a fucking solar dive with chemical rockets. Jesus.

>>11795844
lmao

Why are you schizos so convinced Space Force is actually gonna send people to space. Even with Starship, you realize the whole point of space force is to hire pencil pushers to sit at desks all day and monitor satellites right?

>>11795847
Keep in mind it'd be very hard or impossible to slow down, this is why it'd only be good for deep solar system fly by missions to places that would be impossible to get to in reasonable timeframes otherwise, like some dwarf planets and the inner oort cloud.

>>11795833
>>11795846
I was thinking it might help with rocket launches or NASA application. Its really my only path until spaceflight becomes common enough that i can dispatch trips...

>>11795850
No one here gives a shit about space force

>>11795847
Only because you can't really stop, what any fusion torch offers is near-constant smooth acceleration and a maneuver budget which is essentially "it can run until you get where you want to be".

>>11795858
The closest thing we will have to a fusion torch in this century is the NSWR with 90% enrichment. Hopefully it gets more research by the government once sending shit into space becomes cheap because of starship

>>11795860
Zap Energy is close to Q=1 with a Z pinch torch.

>>11795847
>the expanse

god that engine bell looks retardedly oversized

>>11795866
soijack posters are the new ponyposters

>>11795860
You could also do an closed-cycle gas core NTPR, very, very small quantity of gaseous UF6 injected into a solid quartz "lamp", spits out a massive amount of UV which then superheats the propellant, usually LH2 but I don't think it fundamentally needs to be. Not as much ISP as an NSWR but still more than enough to get you anywhere you'd want to go and it won't eject a plume of fission fragments.
Super safe, very small amounts of nuclear material, very mechanically simple.

>>11795871
Although i agree i also agree that the expanse was sjw garbage.

>>11795872
The only problem is you need to make quartz light bulbs transparent to infra red. You can get in the ballpark by taking a solid core LH2 NTR and using an arcjet as an afterburner.

>>11795864
I kind of doubt we will see fusion rockets this century.
>>11795872
Yeah, that is an option as well, but I was specifically talking about the closest possible thing to a fusion torch we could feasibly develop this century.

>>11795878
True, however I think that fusion is a lot closer than we'd imagine. I think that the energy industry is seized by the same institutional lethargy as the space industry and for exactly the same reason. Radially excessive government management and intervention has completely neutered the energy industry's desire and motivation to change or innovate anywhere.

>>11795871
it's better than the anime that you fucking faggots continue to litter /sfg/ and /mg/ with. I truly can't understand what compels a young man to watch, save, and post fucking anime. Is it autism, social retardation, inceldom?

>>11795885
radically*

>>11795886
Then you don't belong here.

>>11795876
the expanse has literally become the new
>I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE

Literal hordes of redditors and CS majors desperate to watch bezos bail out their "hard sci fi" and beautiful mixed race future, it's pathetic. Nobody should post stills here.

>>11795890
perhaps this will scare anime faggots away

Who /rover/ here? What's the best rover and why was it Sojourner?

>>11795893
Truth same with nuTrek. Not the sci fi space future I want. Firefly did diversity way better by not making it a big deal

>>11795893
Seriously though, I went to watch it because a coworker said its muh space. But its literally terrible. Maybe i just cant handle fiction anymore but i liked the martian so idk

>>11795901
Because I got to play with the toy as a kid while the mission was happening, no idea why NASA doesn't get HotWheels to do micro sets for every mission. Shit like this is perfect for explaining EDL to a kid in simple terms and generally getting them interested in learning more, worked for me.

>>11795901
Reminder that it kept moving even after pathfinder died

>>11795902
Star trek is garbage anyway. It inspired me when i was young and so did star wars but star trek was really not good.

>>11795901
for me, it's lunakhod

>>11795902
That's because back in the day, people actually believed diversity could be a non-issue by just making it a non-issue, and wouldn't you know it, it worked.

Their goal isn't to be diverse. Diverse no longer means lots of variety. Diversity now means "not white." That's why they need to redefine it and make it a big deal, because the goal is to generate hatred for white people.

>>11795904
the expanse reeks of corporate storytelling. it's the same deadness you notice watching any family blockbuster

>>11795914
Bingo.

>>11795900
Posting a fictional rocket won't make people stop posting fiction.

>>11795901
After last thread with the NASA employee Perseverance is by far my favorite and i am really excited for the launch.

>>11795321
The fact we have yet to go past of few inches of dirt for soil samples, when we literally could have gone deeper with a single scoop using a 5 dollar shovel.

>>11795902
>>11795911
I have fond memories of watching DS9 as a kid, and TNG/VOY still had unrivaled starship porn. The studio models are fantastic.

Star Trek is famous for ship beauty shots right? Well check out the Federation fleet in Picard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EArdkwUyWa0

DISC was predictably trash but the actual fuck have they managed to do here. I'm not even gonna watch the show after seeing that clip, yet somehow reddit trekkies still defend this pile of shit.

>>11795844
http://toughsf.blogspot.com/2018/06/inter-orbital-kinetic-energy-exchanges.html

>>11795915
Yep, it is wooden, diversified and soulless.

>>11795934
Have you seen it recently? The beauty shots are excellent, i agree but the story and world building is bad.

>>11795934
Yeah peak startrek inspired me. It’s what humanity could be if we get our shit together. I don’t care what race or gender is serving with me on a starship, it’s all about being a human and exploring space. But new star trek is all about white man bad, orange man BAAAAAD

>>11795945
>it’s all about being a human and exploring space.
I disagree, i want my race to be front and center but i agree I don't care what races work with me. The federation philosophy in star trek and the "muh no money" thing really annoyed me though, its like a 2 year olds vision of the future.

>>11795955
How's money work with replicators? As long as you have energy and mass you've got anything you want, right?

>>11795790
because that anon doesn't know how to set the jpeg quality level, so webm gives better compression for a single picture

>>11795964
Replicators are stupid and would make the meaning of life all important. Plus all diplomatic relations could be solved with replicators. So wheres the struggle? wheres the strife? Wheres the adventure?

>>11795974
If our society currently had replicators I’m pretty sure I would just stay inside 24/7 and replicate food as needed. I wouldn’t need to work

>>11795380
Colonist if I can drag my wife along

>>11795973
No. JPG is old and outdated. Webm captures the best quality of PNG using modern compression technique.

If your iPhone doesn't support webm, call Apple tech support and complain to them.

>>11795974
>So wheres the struggle?

We could replicate big fuck off robot armies and make them fight

>>11795981
It would make all industries obsolete. Art would be fucked too. The only thing important would be land but with terraforming that wouldn't matter. Replicators literally ruin everything.

If my craft has a TWR of 1 while in orbit of Kerbin, does this mean it’s capable of accelerating at 1G?

>>11795902
The nuTrek reboot was bad enough, then STD had to come along and fag it up completely.
The Orville is now more Trek than Trek.

Alright bros this is in the same vein as the other anon that asked about careers earlier
A few months back in an interview with the air force Elon suggested to new people going to school to study CS and physics if they want to understand the universe.

Is that a good combo for a double major for someone who eventually wants to participate in the colonization of mars? What about EE and CS or EE and math? I just want to contribute bros, whether that's in software or hardware or anything

>>11795983
>iPhone
>implying
I'm using a real laptop with a 17" screen, zoomer.

>>11796001
then stop using IE, gramps

>>11795999
CS is so fucking gay. Physics is cool but a lot of work, and you better enjoy academia

>>11796003
Nobody said they couldn't see it, someone asked why it was that way. It's just wrong as fuck to use a video format for a still picture. This is the same "must get the last 0.1%" nonsense that had people putting zip files in rar files in ace2 files 20 years ago.

>>11795999
ME and CS although CS sucks
. You might want to try ME and a science that isn't computers

>>11795997
The Orville is great unironically. It does both crass Seth McFarlane humor and genuine optimistic space adventure. Discovery just seems mean spirited.

>>11795999
it doesn't matter, get into the best research school that you can. your first year you will just be taking all the intro math, physics, and CS classes.
>who eventually wants to participate in the colonization of mars?
you are not going to be a mars colonist, sorry to break it to you. If you really want to be an astronaut, commission in the Navy/AF through a service academy or ROTC and make it to flight school.

If you want to work straight out of college, major in either MechE or EECS. A Math degree is workable too if you take some CS classes/self study data structures.
If you think you want to do a PhD, consider math or physics. You should NOT major in physics unless you plan on graduate school. A standalone math BA is perfectly workable, physics majors have much more trouble.

To give you more detailed advice you will need to give us more info. One last note, double majors are a huge meme, you should never do one. They offer no advantage whatsoever for graduate school or employment. Pick one major, then take the classes that you like from the other. You are generally better off picking the more theoretical major and then taking some random engineering classes.

t. mathfag

>>11795999
i'd say CS would be necessary to calculate any sort of non-trivial 3 body problem. Not that it would only be good for calculating orbits, but writing software to help our shit-flinging primate intellects visualize orbital mechanics (something better than 'Children of a Dead Earth's interface) might be very useful

>>11796006
>. It's just wrong as fuck to use a video format for a still picture
okay boomer

Alright boys, how do we colonize venus

>>11796006
>It's just wrong as fuck to use a video format for a animated gif

>>11796021
Its a picture

>>11796013
I don't think so, a CS major covers all sorts of crap like data structures, algorithms, OS, security, compilers, databases etc. Scientific computing (such as n-body simulation) will require basic coding skills, but is mostly math/ numerical analysis.

I was doing some statistical mechanics simulations in C++, which I didn't really have any experience with. All I did was look up how to use the std::vector library and basic loops and it was enough for me lmao. I just used Python to visualize the raw text output, because it's super easy.

>>11796012
>you are not going to be a mars colonist, sorry to break it to you
you think starship won't succeed?

>>11796019
Nuke the shit out of it.

>>11796024
Data structures and algorithms change the way you see the world. That's probably what Elon is getting at.

>>11796025
maybe it will, but there is no economy to justify sending actual colonists to mars. It will be limited to government astronauts for a very long time. We should go to Mars because it's awesome, not because of the "interplanetary species" meme. Even a horrifically polluted, irradiated Earth will be a nicer place to live than Mars.

>>11796030
Interesting? Can you give me an example in layman’s terms?

>>11796022
They're all pictures.

>>11796032
Nigger, we should go because we can. If Elon can self-fund it through starlink and NASA wants to supply technology and money then what’s stopping us from sending a whole bunch of geologists who want to do awesome field work, followed by people who want to escape Earth and start a new life bc they can afford it and want to push the boundaries of human exploration and expansion

>>11796030
what? Sure making some doubly linked lists and shit from scratch was neat, but it's not mindblowing... A rock solid class real analysis class will change the way you see any sort of scientific discipline.

>>11796032
>maybe it will, but there is no economy to justify sending actual colonists to mars

Elon wants to so we will. Simple as that.

> It will be limited to government astronauts for a very long time

It will be limited to private SpaceX employees for a very long time. I’m sure NASA will pay them to send a few of their overtrained cartoon characters once they give up on their own idiotic ideas for a Mars mission, though.

> Even a horrifically polluted, irradiated Earth will be a nicer place to live than Mars.

Mars is a nicer place to live than Earth in any circumstance.

>>11796032
>oldspace fan
lmao

>>11796032
>will be limited to government astronauts for a very long time.
Bullshit, government astronauts aren't even going to be the first on mars. The colony is going to grow quickly and there are plenty of people willing to throw their life away on mars. The needs and wants of those people will create a economic incentive. If you build it thwy will come.

>>11796036
>Nigger, we should go because we can.
I agree, we do things because they are hard.
> people who want to escape Earth and start a new life bc they can afford it and want to push the boundaries of human exploration and expansion.
This worked in America in the 19th-20th centuries because there was a huge demand for manual labor from people who were sick of living under kings and emperors. There is no economic case for sending random permanent settlers to Mars. They will produce nothing of meaningful economic value, so someone has to subsidize their extraordinarily costly stay. The government will do that for a few people, like in Antarctica.

>>11796044
>so someone has to subsidize their extraordinarily costly stay
Starlink and tesla plus starship contracts.

>>11796034
As a really basic example, it gives you a better understanding of how evolution works.

>>11796044
>There is no economic case for sending random permanent settlers to Mars.
Colony maintenance and growth? People who want to live on mars permanently Re not going to care about money in an earthly context.

>>11796044
>>11796046
> Starlink and tesla plus starship contracts.
This is a problem I’ve been thinking of recently. The colony will be purely reliant on Earth, even if it’s starlink income. It’s not like we are settling America where there are untapped natural resources. Only thing I can think of is if it can get to the point of processing a shitload of Methane and Oxygen... or Iron. But even then, that’s really niche. Elon is (supposedly) planning on living and dying on Mars so maybe he’ll become some savant and produce a bunch of things that Earth will want

>>11796051
Mars will eventually become a huge base for asteroid mining as well.

>>11796044
>There is no economic case for sending random permanent settlers to Mars.

They’ll pay SpaceX to go. There’s your economic case.

> They will produce nothing of meaningful economic value

Scientific data and their own existence. Where there’s people, there’s service industry and commercial goods production.

> so someone has to subsidize their extraordinarily costly stay.

Very cheap stay.

Wtf did vega learn? Fucking soviets were insane.

Wtf did vega learn? Fucking soviets were insane.

>>11796051
>It’s not like we are settling America where there are untapped natural resources.

......You mean like there is on Mars? Trillions of tons of ore sit patiently beneath the surface deposited by volcanos and meteors, eager to be removed by vehicles.

> The colony will be purely reliant on Earth

Only for maybe electronics, and that’s solvable in a relatively short period of time.

>>11796049
>>11796051
There
>is
no
>such
thing
>as
a
>free
lunch

Will putting a dozen settlers in the middle of the desert here on earth, cut off from the outside world, have any economic value? On Mars, the scenario is infinitely worse. In net terms, each settler is an enormous drain on resources.

Didn't know this board was so full of space cowbows who really thought Elon would set them up with a Mars homestead.

>>11796044
>The government will do that for a few people, like in Antarctica.
Antarctica is really apples to oranges

Does anyone here unironically see themselves/plan on actually going to Mars. Serious question

>>11796057
>Where there’s people, there’s service industry and commercial goods production.
HOOK ME UP TO YOUR FREE LUNCH MACHINE, I WANT IN ON THIS INFINITE SANDWICH GENERATOR

>>11796065
Nice meme saying business major. It isn't free it serves the ideological goals of elon musk and SpaceX.
>Will putting a dozen settlers in the middle of the desert here on earth, cut off from the outside world, have any economic value?
Yes its called Las Vegas and the mob made a fucking killing off of it.

>>11796019
blimp cities will be peak comfy

>>11796072
Tell me who made millions in the gold rush? Was it the miners or those that provided goods to the miners?

>ywn be in low orbit around jupiter, it's massive profile taking up the whole view from the window

>>11796076
I'm actually a math major and I think it's an excellent saying, it's a reminder that everything is paid for at some point. Otherwise you start falling for broken window fallacy crap, which half this board has with their mars colony fantasy.

>Yes its called Las Vegas and the mob made a fucking killing off of it.
That city's entire economic value stems from the outside world ???

>>11796078
>real life bespin
Mfw

>>11796065
>Will putting a dozen settlers in the middle of the desert here on earth, cut off from the outside world, have any economic value?

If they pay someone to get there, yes. People inofthemselves are an economically exploitable resource.

>>11796067
Depends how much talent Elon can get out of California and how robust the fallback Texan government is in a US collapse/civil war scenario. But that's only like 30% likely.

>>11796072
>Dude what’s agriculture

If you threw Martian dirt into a pot and put seeds in it, they’d sprout.

>>11795688
Oh my god larp
Somewhere else

>>11796065
>Will putting a dozen settlers in the middle of the desert here on earth, cut off from the outside world, have any economic value?

Ask the Mormons.

>>11796090
Texas is one of the biggest economies in the world. If it were it’s own country it would still be on the top 10 list of the whole world. Texas will be fine and I hope Elon moves all his businesses there. I would love to teach future Mars explorers about local geology as a spacex employee- or even better- as a boring company employee

>>11796019
Is there an endothermic catalyst we could seed the clouds with to absorb excess heat and precipitate out all the chlorine?

>>11796093
Mormons will totally establish a Martian colony. They have the revenue to purchase Starship launches en masse

>>11796098
there's no way to terraform venus without way more advanced technology as far as i can tell. Theoretically we know how to build things to do it, but the scale at which you'd have to do it is impractical for now

>>11796100
Nauvoo City?

>>11796083
>That city's entire economic value stems from the outside world ???
How is it different from mars? Do people go to Vegas for what the desert provides? Or a different incentive?
>which half this board has with their mars colony fantasy.
I don't think you really understand the saying, free doesn't just imply monetary value. Mars is going to happen because it fulfills the will of a billionaire, the government and a soon to be very wealthy company. It is not free to settlers because their existence will contribute to the expansion of the colony and the expansion of capabilities that brings. Starlink will keep the colony running and asteroid mining staged from mars will make musk a trillionare. Musk has made it very apparent that money is not his final goal but a means to an end. He is chasing glory and that is his incentive.

>>11795890
Even tho you’re factually correct, the rest of us who aren’t 49 year old shut in weeb founder 4chin members like the frogs not the naked Japanese children pictures

>>11796096
True, but the launch site *is* 1 mile from cartel territory.

>>11796108
SpaceX paramilitary when?

>>11796100
Would I be contrarian for not wanting religion on Mars, or contrarian for allowing it? I think people should be free to practice but an entire organized group going seems like a recipe for annoying people (or absolute disaster).
I’m religious myself I guess, like I would like a Catholic chapel there after everyone got settled in and there was spare time to build one. But an entire group with possible political power?
At least Mormons are super nice. They would annoy me with questions but they are very laissez faire.
What about Islam- at the very least we ban that shit.

>>11796111
Going by the classic Rome, China, and Britain examples, we'd probably just see Elon throw a few % of each launch fee towards the Gulf Cartel. Again, worst case.

>>11796115
You forget Elon has the President's ear. We could see a fortified border.

>>11796093
To expand on this a bit more, both the Mormons' desert settlement and a whole lot of the original American colonies had as their main draw to their original settlers not (just) "the gold of Cortez; the jewels of Pizarro" but instead the idea of a place that they could call their very own and live their own way without coming into conflict with everybody else back home. Mormons, Puritans, Quakers, Cavaliers- also your occasional penal colony like in Australia and Georgia- space itself, away from others, is often the main attraction.

Of course, I don't know that Earth has enough pluralistic spirit left to allow this. Presently we sort groups into Good and Bad, and if they're Good, then it would be a crime if they would have to flee somewhere else, and if they're Bad, then it would be a crime to allow them to escape. Freedom has served its purpose, after all, in allowing righteousness to be refined to perfection, so now it's only a danger and should be destroyed.

...Maybe it's best to get to Mars before too many people start thinking that way seriously.

>>11796114
I'd rather have mormons then unrestricted hedonists. Islam will probably end up on Mars whether we like it or not, but they'll probably have their own colonies for a while. I wonder when the first inter-colonial conflicts will happen on Mars.

>>11796098
This is nonsense.

>>11796115
I think Elon would rather just terrorize the cartels then have them force him to pay them off. Considering how powerful he will become, that wouldn't be too hard for him to do.

>>11796115
Are you telling me us /k/ommandos could work for spacex as security?

>>11796114
The great thing about space is one day people will truly be able to fuck off where no one will bother them. That’s what the Mormons attempted but the US caught up with them because of the whole manifest destiny thing (still going strong, god bless) and that’s what the separatists attempted with New England. This time, Israel and Palestine can be millions of miles away with no need for resource conflict.
Space colonization will be the best thing for religions imaginable m

>>11796124
At that point I’d ask Elon to just do some “nuclear terraforming” near some colonies

>>11796120
all of the settlers you reference had some positive economic value. At the very least they could subsistence farm, or they would simply have died. Every new Martian settler adds to the already massive deficit of the colony. There is no economic case for a base beyond a few dozen scientists.

>>11796114
>Would I be contrarian for not wanting religion on Mars, or contrarian for allowing it?

Religion is psychologically beneficial.

> I think people should be free to practice but an entire organized group going seems like a recipe for annoying people (or absolute disaster).

You play by the rules of the colony if you live in the colony. Go to the other ones if you don’t like their rules

>>11796117
>>11796127
>>11796128
Eh, kind of getting off topic at this point but I'm talking 5-20 years down the line. Doing a little Gadsden Purchase round 2 right now would be a reasonable insurance policy is all.

>>11796063
>ore
We have all the iron we need on Earth, it's one of the most common elements in any area that already had a star explode. Most of what you can get there is useless except to support more space/moon/mars habitats from a low gravity well, which themselves are going to be mostly useless for a long time.
You can't have an economy based on supporting things don't produce anything. It's just tourism and Antarctica-style science outposts, unless they find a lot of gold or something.

>>11796132
Based. Obviously it's a shame, but testing experimental nuclear propulsion systems has to happen somewhere and navigation is never perfect.

>>11796133
> At the very least they could subsistence farm

You mean like you can do on Mars?

>>11796131
Space colonization will be the best thing imaginable for most political ideologies that can secure even in the low hundreds of millions for initial asteroid mining funds to gain the money to create their own colonies.

>>11796136
Maybe it could also be a prison colony. Like Australia.

>>11796139
Martian subsistence farming

>>11796143
Seeds grow in Martian regolith.

>>11796139
Has a plant ever grown on mars?

>>11796133
There is an economic basis in asteroid mining. Doesn't take much delta v at all to get to asteroids from Mars.
>>11796136
Asteroids mined near Mars will support the growing LEO and potentially lunar industry near earth.

>>11796143
Didn't you see that 2015 documentary about the time the planet Matt Damon was stranded on was Mars?

>>11796136
>Dur iron useless
>Dur homes useless

Not to the people who live there. I never said they were exporting.

>>11796145
>the year is 2050
>Man has pioneered interplanetary travel
>governments and corporations have spent hundreds of billions on these endeavors
>the monumental task of developing this colony falls not onto scientists and engineers, but on Amish subsistence farmers

>>11796114
I'm a pagan and plan on going

>>11796146
No, but plants do grow in Martian regolith simulants and also moon regolith simulants. Gets better if you literally put your shit in it.

>>11796151
Ironic

>>11796136
Rare earth minerals anon

>>11796154
Given the atmosphere/dust storm bullshit, wouldn't it be easier to just eat the efficiency hit, lay out some solar panels, and use their energy to light lava tube greenhouses?

>>11796151
Martians gotta eat. You’ll want multiskilled colonists at least initially so the guy who tends to the potatoes may also be the guy who’s the surgeon

>>11796153
>pagan
What do you mean pagan? Like wiccan larp, or like Roman paganism or Rodnovery (actual pagan religions)

>>11796151
The Amish are shit farmers

>>11796168
It’s settled, well have to bring the CHAZ farmers then

>>11796166
Anglo-Saxon polytheistic reconstructionist, i also on occasion honorCeltic deities but im starting to think all indo European gods are the same gods in different trappings. I say pagan because normies don't understand what i mean.

>>11796174
they'd manage to ruin the bare rock

>>11796164
>Given the atmosphere/dust storm bullshit, wouldn't it be easier to just eat the efficiency hit, lay out some solar panels, and use their energy to light lava tube greenhouses?

Oh I didn’t mean outside in the open! I meant inside of pressurized environments. You’d use a greenhouse with a glass roof supplemented by artificial lights or all artificial lighting. The outside is too extreme for plants to live in, but lichen and various microorganisms can survive and reproduce in Martian atmospheric simulations.

>>11796174
Ah yes the best of the best

>>11796174
>One Starship reserved for black and indigenous farmers only
>One Starship for the others
Oh no...

>>11796176
>Anglo-Saxon polytheistic reconstructionist
If I turned to old european polytheism, it'd either be that or roman polytheism. Thing is, anglo-saxon polytheism doesn't have a lot of information about it, but I'd say it's less corrupted then hellenic/middle eastern influences (mithraism especially).
>i also on occasion honorCeltic deities but im starting to think all indo European gods are the same gods in different trappings.
I believe this as well.

metallic hydrogen rockets when

>>11796147
>There is an economic basis in asteroid mining.
Potentially, although I think it's better to control Earth's exploding african, pajeet, and asian populations rather than resorting to scouring the asteroid belt for resources, but that's a story for another time.
>Doesn't take much delta v at all to get to asteroids from Mars.
Going to down to the Martian surface and up is hugely expensive, there is no reason miners wouldn't go straight to Earth.

>>11796186
150-200+ years from now if metallic hydrogen is metastable. if it isn't metastable maybe never

>>11795927
I can't wait for drone shots personally

>>11796019
strip its atmosphere

>>11796195
lewd

Honestly we need to send updated rovers to Venus now. Making one that can withstand the heat and pressure would be a feat to do.

>>11796188
>11796188
The miners would live on mars, and the industry will be centered on spacecraft built and likely launched from Mars, as well as owned by Martians and sold by Martians.

>>11796188
>Potentially, although I think it's better to control Earth's exploding african, pajeet, and asian populations rather than resorting to scouring the asteroid belt for resources, but that's a story for another time.

More resources is better.

>Going to down to the Martian surface and up is hugely expensive

It’s much easier to orbit Mars than Earth. Once on the ground, you can refuel using methane produced from the atmosphere and go back up again. It’s potentially free.

>>11796197
NASA is working on it

>>11796202
Are they? I dont know

>>11796197
Mechanical rovers. Such a good concept I hope it gets done. Every part of the rover is a mechanical computer with minimal silicon electronics. Even the data relay can be done with a mechanical computer

>>11796197
I want us to fling a probe as deep into a gas giant as possible and have it take pictures.

>>11796207
I think it'll be quite boring and dark since it's just full of clouds

>>11796188
>Potentially, although I think it's better to control Earth's exploding african, pajeet, and asian populations rather than resorting to scouring the asteroid belt for resources
Drop the asteroids on their cities.

Aaaand now the /pol/tards are fantasizing about genocide again

>>11796210
What if it's flung into Saturn's weird as fuck hexagon?

>>11796218
Funny how as soon as someone has something bad to say about someone else someone comes along and whines
>poltards
like clockwork.

>>11796185
>Thing is, anglo-saxon polytheism doesn't have a lot of information about it
Yeah its a bit tough although there is a lot if you dig. The book "The Elder Gods: The Otherworld of Early England by Stephen Pollington" is a decent academic book on the subject. Also the wanderers havamal by Jackson Crawford is decent. I looked for the gods and they found me, its changed me a lot but the biggest thing that made me turn was when i figured out how the Christianization of Europe went. Prior to that i had catholic guilt and was afraid to look elsewhere, finding the gods is an interesting path and really starts with researching your family. I suggest you look into it anon, good luck.

>>11796218
>muh scary evil /pol/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg2NIj6Yn4g

>>11796019
>Venus has an atmosphere 100 times thicker than Earth's
>Mars's atmosphere is 1% as thick as our own
Hmm...

>2020
>still dont have at least 1 science mission working on every major body in the solar system
I wish we had more planetary science in general. That and easy access to the data.

>>11796230
Yeah well if you think Mars is hard to live on, then Venus is dark souls. You’d be restricted to airships. While this isn’t necessarily that bad, i’d rather have boots on the ground than living on cloud city. To each their own though.

>>11796100
Nah brah. Mormons want to be on earth. Zion will be there, not mars. Let heathens have their cold rock.

>>11796019
You send all the people who think it's a good idea to colonize Venus, set them up with a few blimp towns, and never give them any rockets to leave with.

>>11796198
ok, and they will be instantly undercut in price by Earth based miners.

>>11796211
It won't be enough. Honestly I'm glad I'll be dead by 2100, because the world will be so utterly fucked by 2150 it's honestly hilarious. Over 4 billion Africans and 50% of births lmao, it's comical. Hopefully I will see some 4k mars kino before it's too late.

>>11796218
pic related is basically worldwide genocide by asphyxiation

>>11796238
>nooooo I don’t like when there’s lots of black people on another continent noooo

Millennials have the most bizarre ideas of what a “problem” constitutes regardless of their political affiliation.

>>11796188
>Going to down to the Martian surface and up is hugely expensive
> he doesn't know about skyhook
Kek

>>11796230
Interesting, so there is a pattern

>>11796236
I take it you don't know too much about Mormonism.

>>11796238
>ok, and they will be instantly undercut in price by Earth based miners.
lol no, mars has much lower delta v price to asteroids and they dont have to launch out of the heavy gravity well of earth

>>11796243
>lots of black people on another continent
that's where you're wrong kiddo

>>11796235
That's exactly what I was saying. Venus's atmosphere is mainly CO2. If we could move a part of it to Mars, it would cause a greenhouse effect, making Mars warmer, while the opposite happens to Venus, making both planets more habitable.

>>11796252
To borrow a phrase from our aussie friends,

fuck off, we're full.

>>11796254
Are we, though? Look at a population heatmap of the US

>>11796257
fuck off we're full

>>11796252
I don’t care if they’re here. My girlfriend is black

>>11794892
I do play campaign although with mods
It's more fun to have limits on expenses, can't just do everything with the biggest rockets. Reusability becomes something you strive for

>>11796257
THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO FILL IT WITH BILLIONS OF AFRICANS AND INDIANS

jesus christ, imagine looking at pristine lands and thinking about how to best ravage them.

Anyways, be glad that we will witness some cool space stuff from now until around 2060-70, at which point shit will start hitting the fan globally.

>>11796257
you want us to be some third whole endless urbanized zero-culture india tier shithole
all of that "empty land" is farms, forests, mountains, etc

>>11796262
If you end up having children, go out of your way to try and raise an upstanding citizen. Hood rat is a state of mind to be rejected by all young black people if they want to avoid being impoverished.

>>11796238
> here we see the wild /pol/ engaged in a most curious behavior.
> the /pol/ recognises that it will be hopelessly outnumbered by Africans but instead of trying to adapt and evolve it's life and expectations to the coming reality, it expects the rest of the world to adapt to the /pol/.
> indeed, they baffling creatures, locked in patterns of anger and disbelief until, as many believe to be inevitable, they become extinct, only vaguely remembered as minor cultural notes on a placard in some far future museum... if at all.

>>11796268
>wanting to defend your people is wrong
fuck off dude

>>11796264
>jesus christ, imagine looking at pristine lands and thinking about how to best ravage them.

That’s how humans survive. You think the pioneers should have turned back after looking at some stinky swamp and deciding it was too pretty to hominize?

>>11796278
you literally want to turn america into some india tier shithole. jesus christ, we don't need to flood america with billions of africans and indians to make humans survive

>>11796265
>you want us to be some third whole endless urbanized zero-culture india tier shithole

I do often desire for Earth to look like Coruscant.

>>11796278
Tell you what, when they figure out how to organize their own society to do it instead of being undermined by a self-destructive society importing them by the truckload, then by all means, they'll have earned it. Until that time, fuck off and don't come back.

>>11796268
fuck off, I've been keeping this thread alive all night talking about actual space things. It's just that a discussion about earth's future can't be had without acknowledging the demographic disaster it is headed for. There won't be any far future museums after 50+% of all births are african, compared to 5% european lmao. Kindly return to reddit, and upvote some BLM pics.

>>11796262
thank you bill, very cool!

How will starship survive reentry

>>11796285
>Tell you what, when they figure out how to organize their own society to do it

They are! Africa is rapidly urbanizing and replacing unutilized land with farm plots and residential districts. It’s sort of cute because they’re new at it.

>>11796288
heat shields

>>11796288
It’s going to be fitted with heat tiles. Not a lot of people mention it but it won’t be steel grey after doing so; it’ll be purple-green

>>11796294
>purple-green
thanks doc

>>11796289
No, it's being organized by outsiders and outside money. Let them figure it out for themselves.

>>11796294
> it’ll be purple-green
what

how can sfg help spur the space economy?

>>11796298
Stainless steel changes colors when its heated.

but why stainless steel...

>>11796295
>>11796298

Steel changes color when exposed to high temperatures. Look up “Tempering colors of steel”.

>>11796289
Cool. They should keep doing that until they're good at it, and not come over here.

>>11796288
Wakandan engineering, all those rocket scientists hopping the border will pay off.