/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11770681
Give us designs for our own heavy lift rocket, we’re gonna need one
Starting out with designing a Metholox engine would be a good starting point

First dogfight between 2 spacecraft when?

>>11770681
HNNNNNG

>>11770681
>SLS Block 2
>10 tons less than Saturn V
It's so fucking pathetic. Fuck hydrolox, fuck it right in the ass.

>>11770707
Block 2 is never getting developed.

>>11770714
I know the whole program is probably getting cancelled after a single flight if it even gets there.
It's still pathetic and insisting on using hydrolox is like we're intentionally putting chains on our legs and tying our hands behind our backs for a marathon.

>>11770720
>but muh shuttle derived parts
>muh states contractors
>muh sunk cost fallacy
don't make shelby say the n word

>>11770697
>dogfight
Won't happen. You might see stuff more akin to orbital jousting though.

>>11770749
Imagine two long armored cylinders with compartmentalized tanks, railguns, maybe a few missile launchers, and maybe some lasers as well as big radiatiors and nuclear thermal rockets on the same orbital plane but on opposite trajectories, there would be a few volleys of missile launches to try and either destroy the enemy, force them onto another orbital trajectory, or at least heavily damage them. If neither party is destroyed, disabled, or forced onto another orbital trajectory, eventually you'd get a maybe minute long, likely closer to 15 second long window where both sides fire everything they have at the enemy in a blind attempt to destroy or disable the enemy.

t. Children of a Dead Earth player

>>11770762
>someone throws a tactical sized nuke somewhere in the general direction of where they expect you to be in however many minutes it takes for said nuke to reach you
>you either get incinerated or you expel most of your propellant trying to gtfo
probably more like battleships but in 3d and everyone knows where you are all the time

Worried Starship is gonna be our Buran.

new glenn
but when?

>>11770826
How? An unstable communist system and desperation to keep technological parody killed Buran.

I can see delays occurring for political and economic reasons but not a full on abandonment of the technology.

>>11770826
The Buran was fine it was Communism that failed.

>>11770894
Just because the US isn't communist right now, doesn't mean it isn't immune to societal collapse.

>>11770900
Kek switch off the TV, friend. Go outside.

>>11770900
heard all this three months ago when people were panic buying shit roll. yet still demo 2 happened.

>>11770690
How is an engine manufactured? Is the combustion chamber 2 pieces of shaped plate metal welded to supports between to form cooling channels?

>>11770915
they just find them lying on the road or get them from jebediahs junkyard and spacecraft aprts co

>>11770813
Nukes will be very common. Most of the missiles will be nuclear, and although most will likely be expended while the two parties are tens of thousands of kilometers away on opposite sides of the body they are orbiting, I can see a few being used during the actual "joust" window.

>>11770894
>technological parody
parity

https://www.marketscreener.com/BOEING-COMPANY-THE-4816/news/NASA-Investigating-Former-Official-s-Contacts-With-Boeing-on-Lunar-Contracts-30737295/
(via WSJ)
>NASA Investigating Former Official's Contacts With Boeing on Lunar Contracts
>The inspector general's staff, these people said, is looking into an allegation that Mr. Loverro improperly provided guidance that could have offered the Chicago aerospace giant unusual insight into aspects of the competition.
>investigators are looking into Mr. Loverro's various contacts with Boeing and a second bidder outside normal contracting channels.

>>11770681
>stainless steel
kek

>>11771070
Well boeing's proposal surely was the easiest and less risky way to get to the moon in 2024... then not ever coming back due to budget LMAO

>>11771077
the virgin precision cnc machining iso grids into aluminium plates then stir welding them into tanks vs the chad using an old silo ring roller and having juans mobile welding company to put them together in a tent.

>>11770941
I think the reason they wouldn't is because it takes a little bit of time for a torpedo to be deployed, get it's targeting data/acquire it's target, then orient to it's target and ignite it's drive. Once you're past the initial contact phase the "joust" phase is like you said probably only going to last a minute down to just a couple seconds, depending on how fast the two ships are closing and whether or not they're actively accelerating to minimize the contact and reaction time.
Nukes will be the first line of attack and will be expended first to try and force your enemy to waste all of their delta-V or munitions dodging or shooting them down, the reason for this is that nuclear weapons are actually much more hazardous in space than they are on the ground in an atmosphere.
In a dense atmosphere the vast plurality of all gamma radiation produced by the supercritical chain reaction is soaked by just a sphere of air a few hundred meters across, which is in turn superheated into plasma and transformed into the fireball. In space however there is no such buffer of dense gas, each nuke will be like a flash lamp of instantly lethal fast-neutron radiation, a ship can under no circumstance tank a nuclear flash, even if the warheads only yield a few tens of kilotons. If the ship is close enough to be substantially effected in any way the crew will also be instantly irradiated to death.

To prevent this I'd imagine that either A: Nukes will be limited (perhaps by treaty) to area denial weapons meant to force ships to waste time and weaponry to avoid them, or B: Tiny tactical weapons with perhaps a warhead full of ball bearings sitting atop a suitcase nuke, just a longer ranged more powerful version of a conventional explosive warhead torpedo.

>>11771107
I still think most ships will have at least a few nuclear warheads on board. Of course not all ships will be dedicated silo/missile ships, but those will exist too. I doubt that there will be much limitations on nuclear weapons, except around heavily populated bodies with significant atmospheres like Earth, Mars, Venus, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Jupiter and maybe Titan. Most nuclear warheads will be relatively low yield, but in turn there will be a shit ton of them.

>>11771070
What's new? Wasn't he already being investigated for helping Boeing? Or am i misremembering it?

>>11771070
>and a second bidder
Any guesses? Lockheed?

>>11771145
that's issue the article is talking about
so nothing new really

>>11771158
wasn't lockheed part of the BO proposal?

>>11770762
>Children of a Dead Earth
Has garbage ships, from what I've seen. "Long armored cylinder" is terrible. It leaves the radiators completely exposed, gives you no strategic armor placement, and arrays your mass in a super long moment arm that only serves to make you less maneuverable. The armor doesn't really make much sense in itself either, it seems to be set up for missiles and low velocity rounds (things you'd rely on point defence and maneuvering to defeat) because it doesn't efficiently conduct away heat like you want for a laser shield and there isn't any whipple shielding for hypervelocity.

>>11771163
You actually can build whipples and hypervelocity guns, the base ships just don't have them, any competently designed player ship will mog the stock ships in every metric.

>>11771163
IIRC, one of the devs admitted that Whipple shields aren't realistic and that thick sloped armor would be best, but whipple shields were chosen for gameplay purposes.

same energy

>>11771070
>Have insider information
>Still fail to meet the requirements
Yikes.

>>11771158
Might have actually been SpaceX since both have proven the ability to build spacecraft within the same time frame they might have both been given extra data with the expectation that they both would be given contracts.

>>11771170
For anything traveling at hypervelocity relative to the target I think you'd want something akin to a whipple shield. You're better off dispersing the energy than taking it on the chin.

>>11771167
It's good that you can make better ships but anon seemed to be taking the stock ships as gospel as that's pretty much what he described.

>>11771189
I'd just say Anon is wrong then, stock ships exist as a baseline the player is meant to learn how to surpass as soon as they decide to unlock custom component design, which is basically all of the rest of the game outside of learning how to perform different orbital maneuvers to give yourself advantages.

>>11770826
If I had billions I would put it into next gen materials science such as graphene and the like.

>>11771189
I didn't mention the armor even, and yes, whipple shields can be used.

Does anyone else think that Project Orion is the only truly feasible method of interplanetary manned transport? Current systems take a year or more to reach Mars, no one has spent that long inside a cramped capsule before.

Obviously the 50 year old concept needs some modern retooling. Instead of having the vehicle launched from Earth (which would contaminate the atmosphere with fallout), it would be constructed in space in an orbiting dry dock. Overall it would have a long, spear-shaped truss structure several hundred meters long, with fore and aft propellant tanks, a debris shield at the front, a small rotating habitat module behind the shield, and have several docking ports where assorted "dinghy" landers would be attached, with the mothership ferrying them from planet to planet. Instead of having to build thousands of tiny nuclear bombs for propulsion, the main powerplant would be a massive bell nozzle like engine at the back where pulverized nuclear fuel dust is injected and bombarded with microwaves to induce controlled fission or some shit.

Overall the vehicle would be similar to the ISV Venture Star from Avatar, albeit with nowhere near cruise speed of 0.7C. Still though, concerning trips to the outer solar system you could possibly make 0.05C (30 million mph, or 1/20 C).

>>11771070
Wow, Scott Manley was dead on with his theory.

>>11771189
>For anything traveling at hypervelocity relative to the target I think you'd want something akin to a whipple shield. You're better off dispersing the energy than taking it on the chin.
The issue is that whipple shields are one use. Sloped/slanted armor works better for longer duration or multiple projectile attacks. Also, sloped armor works by deflecting the energy, not by absorbing it.

>>11771189
I don't take stock ships as gospel actually, I haven't touched stock ships in years, except when I use my own ships against them for fun.
>>11771212
This is anon btw

>>11771215
No. Medusa is probably pretty good for interstellar transport but you don't need Orion for interplanetary

>>11771215
Current systems take a year or more to reach Mars, no one has spent that long inside a cramped capsule before.
Wrong, current systems take 6 months. With nuclear thermal rockets you could get that down to below three, with VASIMR powered by nuclear reactors you could get that down to a single month. And starship definitely isn't a cramped capsule, the 9 meter variant will probably carry around 30-40 people. The 18 meter variant will be the one carrying 100 people.

>>11771224
>Current systems take a year or more to reach Mars, no one has spent that long inside a cramped capsule before.
Fuck, meant to greentext that

>>11771207
If I had billions I'd sink it into radically shrinking atomic power generation technology, and discovering the best way to manufacture high-strength, high-temperature, high-corrosion tolerant cermet materials.
If you can solve the cermet problems you can get Nuclear-Thermal rockets with TWRs much closer to conventional chemical rockets with fuel that is strong enough to avoid being corroded or chipped and thus released into the environment. Working off of the back of that you could have safe, reliable, reusable atomic booster stages, or high-TWR NTPR second stages.
Substantially shrinking power reactors would also allow for much larger operations in space, especially beyond the orbit of Earth where solar power suffers radically diminishing returns. It will be anemic on Mars and practically useless in the Jovian and Saturnine systems.

>>11770894
>technological parody
>>11771002
That might've been an intentional dig at shuttles.

>>11771224
>a year or more to reach mars
retard, that's the round trip for NASA's retarded flyby plan

>>11771235
Are you a nigger? I was quoting somebody else but for some reason the > didn't show up when I posted.

>City of Elongrad, capital of Mars year 2076

>>11771215
>Is Orion the only feasible method of interplanetary manned transport?
Obviously not since humans have already set foot on another celestial body without Orion being involved.
Mars and Venus can be obtained in sufficiently short periods of time using either conventional chemical rocketry or nuclear-thermal propulsion. The Jovian and Saturnine systems though are not practicably reachable for humans without at LEAST magnetoplasma rockets in my estimation. It always needs to be considered that the longer humans have to fly, the more of your ship's overall weight is going to have to be dedicated exclusively to life support and supplies.

>>11771237
ah
no, nuclear electric and nuclear thermal won't help you get to Mars faster, especially because you won't be able to aerobrake in Mars atmosphere with those radiators

>>11771242
>Construction of Elongrad, Year 2050

>>11771244
You don't necessarily have to aerobrake to get into an orbit with Mars, and even if you do, you can transfer your crew to a vessel orbiting mars capable of aerobraking, or you can work on making more efficient radiators, or more efficient nuclear thermal reactors, or you can carry just enough chemical propellant to use that instead when you get there (you would have to fold the radiators up and bring them into your ship).

>>11771252
if you don't aerobrake you can't go faster because the dv requirements start spiking
if you go faster you can't aerobrake because your incoming energy is too high
you will never get a Mars transfer down faster than four months or so without an actual torch drive

>>11771254
Any proof to your claims?

>>11771256
your incoming velocity at Mars increases faster than your excess velocity at Earth escape due to the Oberth effect
the rest follows

>>11770826
already have it

>>11771261
No, proof to the claims that the incoming energy is too high

>>11771263
I wish they didn't cancel it. all those technologies they could have proven / refined. also it would have had an aesthetic on level with the space shuttle

>>11771264
ah
the faster you enter Mars from transfer, the harder it is to aerobrake
Mars is very small and dense so it's actually a horrible target for aerocapture (because you don't have much time or distance in the atmosphere to shed the energy)
this gets worse as you come in faster and faster from transfer (entry velocity increases disproportionately to transfer time decreases)

>>11771263
>Hey, those composite tanks weren't working so we made them out of alu-
>"NOOOOOO THEY MUST BE SUPER DUPER ADVANCED CARBON FIBER!!!!1"
>We can just fly with aluminum now and change la-
>"NOT SCIFI ENOUGH!"
>But the aluminum tanks are lig-
>"REEEEEEEEEEE"
>We can't complete the prototype because the carbon fiber tanks keep failing
>"Oh wow, how could this happen?"
Why was NASA so autistically attached to the carbon fiber tanks when it was clear that they wouldn't work (ignoring the SSTO memes)?

>>11771263
Could we build a scale model to fly and test out the design? Maybe methalox as opposed to hydrolox

>>11771282
>ignoring the SSTO memes
ignoring SSTO dreams, X-33 was pointless
the whole idea was to verify if you could make fantastically light carbon fiber tanks

>>11771244
Why can't you aerobrake with radiators? Build directional radiators in such a way that when the reactor is operating at it's minimum power they are all that's needed. They can be shielded from reentry heating if the ship itself can be capsule-shaped with the drive being the widest part. Fold away the much larger "working" radiators. The drive can be an NTPR truncated cone aerospike which can easily be configured to act as a heat-shield for prolonged, multiple aerobrake maneuvers.

>>11771282
>We can't complete the prototype because the carbon fiber tanks keep failing
>"Ok, let me tell congress you guys failed and we don't want to fund you anymore because Cheney doesn't want a project Gore signed off on to go ahead and this gives us a reason to keep in the current administrations good book"
ftfy

a toast!

>>11771307
No thanks califag. Your retarded politics make you not welcome here

>>11771307

>SLS
Why is this fanfiction a part of this image?

>>11771315

>>11771318
congress has mandated it by law

>>11771322
Well then the damn thing better be good

>>11771328
it won't be

>>11771328
>Mandated by Congress
>Good
OH NO NO NO NO

>>11771334
>REUSED.com

>>11771335

>>11771335
>FLIGHT-PROVEN.COM

Im trying to write a short story collection about an alternate history where the Cold War goes nuclear and thirty years later the remnants of The US and Russia are trying to establish dominance in space (for some reason. I haven’t figured it out yet).

What would a realistic space battleship with modern technology look like? I’m willing to accept Nuclear Thermal Rockets and space Fission generators.

The main ship in the book is named “Mandom”. It’s like a Space Shuttle but with armor and a large liquid hydrogen tank in its payload bay.

How can I design realistic warships guys? How can I get a ship like that to orbit? Is SSTO viable or can I do something like the TSTO-Spaceplane concept.

Also it takes place in the 2010’s, so there is no SpaceX.

SLS booster segments is soon to arrive to Kennedy. When they do team will begin assembling the boosters: what does this mean for estimated launch time?

>>11771372
It’ll be within the next 100,000 years

>>11771371
If the cold war were to go hot, the most likely first use of Nukes post-WWII would have been against Maoist China in the Korean War. MAD would still be a thing, but there would have been tactical deployments in the various proxy wars. So Vietnam and Afghanistan might be particularly hellblasted spits of land.

>>11771391
The Fulda Gap would have been the site of the most destruction

So space elevators on earth is still a pipedream.
but how hard would it be to have a space elevator on the moon with a big spacestation on top and a large colony on the surface?

>>11771404
>Fulda Gap
Again, I'm assuming MAD doesn't break down. You'd still have an awful lot of nukes used in all the proxy conflicts, and you might have even had situations like the nuclear torpedo actually being fired during the Cuban Missile Crisis which would have immensely raised tensions.

>>11771418
>but how hard would it be to have a space elevator on the moon with a big spacestation on top and a large colony on the surface?
We can build small elevators for the moon right now. So, it's feasible as long as you can either make the cable locally or splice one together as you go.

>>11771372
20 years

>>11771335
Close enough? I'm not a connoisseur of that kind of entertainment.

>>11771372
Can someone explain if this is significant?

>>11771372
Nothing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/07/elon-musk-email-to-spacex-employees-starship-is-the-top-priority.html

>>11771462
nice

Next FH mission when?

>>11771172
I thought that scene was fucking stupid. Why was the ship built on ground?

>>11771372
Changes nothing as far as i'm aware, still 2021

>>11771462
>Musk's email implied that the company is seeking to incentivize employees to move to Texas from California and Florida.

The musky swamp grows larger

>>11771481
Should be in a few months from what i remember, classified Air Force launch

>>11771462
>https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/07/elon-musk-email-to-spacex-employees-starship-is-the-top-priority.html

Hold onto your butts. Starship dev might've seemed fast already, but in reality it's only been cruising on impulse. Elon just engaged warp drive.

>>11771541
can you stop with the cringe start wars references redditor. thanks

>>11771545
I think warp drive is Star Trek?

>>11771556
oh boy here we go

>>11771545
nigger
first you hate on Gundam
now you hate on Star Trek

Damn y/u/ri stacies winning today.

>11771545
Go away janny.

>>11771528
Thank god, fuck California

thank you

>>11771529
anyone know if ASOG will be operational by then?

>>11771541
>In his email, Musk asked SpaceX employees to “consider spending significant time” in Boca Chica to help further accelerate Starship development. SpaceX has about 8,000 employees, most of whom are at the company’s Los Angeles area headquarters or its facilities at Cape Canaveral, Florida or near Austin, Texas. Although SpaceX has some land under lease in the Port of Los Angeles for Starship development, Musk’s email implied that the company is seeking to incentivize employees to move to Texas from California and Florida.

Does anyone know if when you amputate a leg or something will the body require less oxygen to function? My googling doesn't show much info. Consider how useful good prosthetics would be for survival in inhospitable places. It's much easier to get electricity than it is to get oxygen no?

>>11771635
It will require less oxygen, but limbs use a smaller percentage of the body's oxygen and oxygen is easy to produce.

>>11771635
If you want to conserve oxygen, use mountainmen genes and low-ox adaptation. But it isn't rare and you can reclaim it anyway

>>11771243
No you don’t need anything beyond chemical to go to The outer system, you just need to go bigger with chemical and add delta v with beamed propulsion

Also need some way to brake there with it fuel

>>11771462
>Musk's email implied that the company is seeking to incentivize employees to move to Texas from California and Florida
I'm torn by this. I love the fact this shit is accelerating. But the Californians, though.

>>11771692
No its all a good thing. He's moving spacex slowly out of California.

>>11771692
Greg Abbott should give Elon incentives to build a town in Boca for his staff. Maybe let companies come in and build essentials like an HEB grocery store, shopping areas, the likes.
These are the only Californians I will let into Texas

>>11770681
is for all mankind worth watching?

>>11770900
you need to watch less tv

>>11771716
no

>>11771716
No, visually it’s pretty good looking but it does the same thing DICE is doing with the Battlefield series. It’s portraying history through an SJW lens. Also they fucked up the launch of the Sea Dragon

>>11771704
Yeah its worth it to not have SpaceX be cucked.

>>11771728
Texas is in a very weird place right now. Elon is currently planning Boca to be a future launch site for missions to the Moon and Mars. Blue Origin is also based in West Texas for building crafts.
Now Elon could just as easily shift all production to Kennedy in the future... But if the politicians give these people incentives it might turn Texas into the fucking Space State. Especially considering how Starship is going to change spaceflight for (presumably) the next 50-100 years, Texas should be doing everything in its power to foster this growth and pull in companies like Tesla, SpaceX, Blue Origin, etc.

>>11771704
>>11771728
They also need to slowly winnow out the softies who can't live in a frontier environment. If SpaceX intends to staff a mars base with its own personnel, they need to start finding people for that effort right now.

>>11771145
>>11771216
I think the "Loverro helped Boeing" theory was proposed by Berger first, possibly with insider info. Now there's more evidence. Right now, Berger seems to be insinuating on Twitter that he was the first to break the story not long after Loverro's resignation, though his old article is written in a speculative rather than definitive way.

>>11771716
It's not a bad alternative history. The complaining about "muh SJW lens" have seen the trailer and the post credit Sea Dragon launch scene of the last episode of the only season so far.
It was pretty decent.

>>11771769
Singlesmeoutspecifically.jpg
I mean if you already have apple TV then yeah it’s worth it because space is fascinating. But it’s not worth it to buy a subscription just to watch the show. What else is on apple tv.... central park? Barf

>>11771783
We're on the internet, there are options.
Yarr.

>>11771783
>>11771788
thats exactly what im thinking

>>11771788
Argh, ye right. That’s how I watched it

Someone wake up that anon with the technical drawings of starship’s interior

>>11771769
No everything being made right now has an SJW lens and even if you personally ignore it, it still has an impact on society as a whole. That is really not good when they're shaping spaceflight history

>>11771829
No really. Last time you tried this shit, you fucked up and showed that you had only seen the trailer, not the show.
Take the politics and fuck off. He's gotten his pros and cons and this discussion is over, it's not really suited for this thread anyways.

>>11771635
Majority of oxygen, and other molecules brought in into your body goes to your vital organs, so cutting off limbs wouldn't really make that much difference

>>11771737
Yep and hopefully they do. Texas is better for launches than Florida

>>11771680
They don't use less oxygen, they are just better at using it at lower pressure.
The overall consumption is still the same.

>>11771635
Not really, your limbs only use up a lot of oxygen when they're actually exerting themselves to do stuff, especially in microgee your brain, heart, and stomach are going to be the major oxygen consumers because those are always working hard. Obviously your brain and heart are always-on kinds of organs, and the stomach ought to be working most of the day because you ought to be eating a healthy amount of food.

>>11771738
Yep that and get rid of anyone who is set in ideology(aka Californians), space is going to change a lot of things and their only focus should be getting us there. Politics are less important and can be discussed later.

>>11771842
Ah yeah, my bad.

>>11771312
This, scott manley and most of these aerospace journies have the gayest politics

>>11771866
I just don't understand why they can't leave their mouth shut. That is the problem with YouTubers they don't have a boss forcing professionalism

>>11771307
I should try and find scott's house someday. He moved to Marin and has a view of mt tam, and I live in mill valley. If you're here scott, lets go get some oysters by pt reyes.

>>11771813
He never made them.

>>11771872
I think part of the reason is the right wing journalists are currently focusing on shit like immigration, the elections, etc. Maybe when space travel becomes less of a niche thing we will have actual right wing space journies

>>11771312
>>11771866
it's all so tiresome

>>11771888
Checked and ugh yeah I was gonna post this yesterday but I didn't have the willpower. This shit is so dumb. What is the whole point of this? To virtue signal? What is the solution- FORCING people of color to become aerospace youtubers? Why the fuck does skin color matter

>>11771888
what do people think the barrier to entry there is
like what possible force could be holding back people of color from opining on space-related topics via youtube? The most popular American space-related science communicator is a black man, Michio Kaku probably right behind him.

>>11771888
>>11771898
Bitches like this wear a NASA shirt but couldn’t tell you the order of the planets lmao

>>11771898
ITAR is this remarkable shield that has insulated SpaceX and others from incompetent pajeets and spying chinese. You know if it were up to top management they would be outsourcing and hiring hordes of H1B's, eventually leading to a 737Max situation and rampant IP theft. Since 2011, chinese aren't even allowed in any NASA facilities period. It's the real reason behind our overwhelming dominance in space.

>>11770740
ndepots?

>>11771919
it's great, but at the same time I hate it since I'm a leaf trying to worm my way into the space industry. current outlook is maybe work with the canadarm people for the gateway canadarm, or if the MLS ever gets up and running could go there. Really though, I'm just hoping that as Starship matures and the US ramps up production for the mars mission maybe some restrictions will be lifted and I can work down there or Canada will be more involved (unlikely I think)

>>11771946
I would love to bring leafbros and japanese to Mars. Hardworking and friendly people. I often think about Artemis and wonder if we will be bringing Canadians and Japanese. Nasa should offer them the trip, especially if Starship can deliver with seats costing only $2 mil. Also wonder about the Russians but that probably won’t happen (although they are helping out with Gateway so I guess it’s to be determined)

>>11771907

>>11771963
the US taking Japanese astronauts to the moon before China would probably solidify US/Japanese relations for at least another 50 years

>>11771888
I'm so sick of this shit. You know what oldspace is full of, diversity hires

>>11771919
>eventually leading to a 737Max situation
That was the fault of management above all else. They didn't want a new type certification, which drove an unsafe architecture.
> It's the real reason behind our overwhelming dominance in space.
It directly incentivized China to ignore the idea of international cooperation in space (or at least with the US, they're on terms with literally everyone else) and invest massively in building its own parallel capability. Not that the US doesn't scream when China fails to submit to an order that offers nothing than a position of permanent servitude to it.

>>11771888
I hope mars doesn't end up getting filled with trannies, faggots, commies, and jews and other non-whites, but I think that is inevitable at this point. Looks like the right will be stuck in the outer solar system or asteroid belt.

>>11771963

Japanese are great and JAXA is cool. We should definitely bring japs with us to Mars.

Canadians are cool too but they can be pretty retarded with their politics. So I don’t know about them.

>>11771975
>they're on terms with literally everyone else
except any country remotely near the south china sea

>>11771905
In reality it comes from embarrassment. That is why they have to force it instead of getting into it naturally.

>>11771888
What really kinda disgusts me about any of this shit is to just imagine if you replaced "white dudes" with "blacks" or "the jews", etc, etc. If any other group of people got slagged off like people are casually willing to shitfling at white people it would be labeled a major hate offense, there'd be petitions and protests, the whole nine yards.
The casual put downs aren't really anything, it's just the fucking happy hypocrisy under which all these people operate that baffles me.

>>11771978
Early mars colony would be hard as fuck for people, expect a spartan lifestyle to survive, no room for leftist degeneracy in that climate.

>>11770900
Yeah. Media in the UK going crazy over chimpouts in Bristol and London today involving attacking statues. Meanwhile, I went to the beach with my girlfriend and walked my dog in the rain. Civilised people being friendly with each other. The latter is the true state of the country

>>11771963
I love the Russia-America space friendship and i would unironically support sending up Russian equipment for gateway if they cannot send it up themselves.

>>11771946
yeah I feel for you, 5 eyes nationals should all be given priority H1B's and greencards. I mean Australia is literally our greatest ally. I also hope Canada continues to turn things around with the chinese before CCP shills fill your government. Thanks for not cucking on the extradition of the Huawei CFO in particular leafbro.
>with the canadarm people for the gateway canadarm
pretty smart. If you really want to work in space, I think you'll have to bite the bullet and seek US permanent residence somehow. Maybe do a PhD here, I know a couple canadian wizards who did their master's up there, and transferred into a US math PhD. It's fucking retarded that TN is not duel intent, but fucking pajeets are with their H1B's.

>>11771993
Best thing you can do, Antifa&the BLM movement&democrats are seething because white right thinking americans arent fighting back but staying home, they wanted to blame all of this on "evil wypipo" but now they look like the fools instead.

But lets get back to spaceflight.
>>11771985
Who no love for ESA?
First mars mission should have NASA&JAXA&ESA&ROSCOSMOS grew.

>>11772006
>Roscosmos

No. Fuck them, they're rotten to the core and are worse than China.

>>11772006
Shit I forgot about ESA and Roscosmos. I like you guys a lot actually.

>6 crew to mars
>2 Americans
>2 Russians
>1 Euro
>1 Jap

ISRO is cool too actually

>>11772006
fuck ESA, they somehow manage to be simultaneously ambitionless and conceited

>>11772001
What space friendship?
ISS exists because the only way NASA was getting its long-awaited space station was by packaging it as a diplomatic/security measure.

>>11772019
Fuck the Russians, they're going to work with the Chinks full time and get fucked over by them anyways. That's the way the wind is blowing over that way thanks to all the bullshit propaganda that's been going on since 2016.

>>11771970
chinks having to watch nips hitch a ride to mars before them, the seething would be unparalleled. JAXA should make us a gateway component with a big ol rising sun on it.

>>11771975
hey zhang, cooperation isn't feasible with china, they will steal and cheat. Do I really have to start listing DOJ press releases full of thieving chinese engineers and professors? Any cooperation with the CCP benefits them unilaterally.

>>11772006
>>11771993
Yep let them look like assholes and build yourself up to be important/powerful. If you do that then sane heads will prevail and this will just be a meaningless wave in our path to the future.

>>11772019
Well, if it's starship doing the first mission, i think you could easly do a 10+ crew mission.

>>11771328
Oh nononono, 30 billion dollars and all it can launch is ants.

>>11772038
>the seething would be unparalleled.
That the Americans would take their pets with them?
>DOJ press releases full of thieving chinese engineers and professors?
Not higher than any other group. It would still make sense for the US to recruit as widely as it could, rather than granting the CPC a monopoly over the pool of Chinese scientists and engineers. Measures to "protect" knowledge at best delay China. They do not actively enhance the US position or change the rebalancing of power.

>>11772006
>Who no love for ESA
Because they put zero effort into space. The only good plans they have are pic related and they seem content to stay where they are. Fucking Japan has more involvement in the ISS than they do, they can step up or be left behind.

>>11772019
How about 3 Americans and 3 Russians

>>11772056
Only if the Russians are paying 80+ million dollars a seat.

>>11772051

>Chinese shill

It would be fucking hilarious if the first Starship crew to mars was composed of JAXA astronauts descended from Imperial Japanese soldiers from WWII.

Holy shit the Chinese would self destruct from anger.

Also fuck you you Chinese shill.

>t. Filipino

>>11772027
The politics involved does not lessen the fact that Russian and American astronauts worked together and rode on the same vehicles

>>11772059
Fine by me i think Americans should have the lions share for obvious reasons but Russia should get seats over the pathetic as fuck ESA

>>11772013
Roscosmos is state run, and therefore run by fags who always post anti-Elon shit. That being said, cosmonauts are super fucking cool people. SpaceX should enforce English-only missions and sidestep Russia to launch russian astronauts

>>11772002
>seek US permanent residence somehow
actually looked into it and I don't really get what you have to do. like other than getting married, is getting hired by some silicone vally company on an H1B and working there for 5 years or something enough to make me eligible? and what about the extremely long processing times?

>>11772059
For a Mars trip? That's a fucking bargain man. That was what they were gouging you for for a trip to LEO in a decommissioned 60s ICBM that has just recently gotten a digital guidance system this fucking year.

>>11772052
ESA actually does a lot of shit, but they never follow through on it.
Too many nation dick waving going around, and the french are top dog in ESA.

>>11772060
How am I a Chinese shill?
US space policy is unreasonably harsher towards China than it was towards the Soviet Union.
Kennedy even proposed a joint mission to the Moon.
The Chinese notice this hostility and respond accordingly.

>>11772051
>Not higher than any other group.
ahahaha name one, ONE other group dedicating towards stealing american IP and serving their homeland's totalitarian regime.
>It would still make sense for the US to recruit as widely as it could, rather than granting the CPC a monopoly over the pool of Chinese scientists and engineers.
TOP FUCKING KEK, GO CRASH SOME MORE BOOSTER CORES ON AFRICAN VILLAGES
in all seriousness you're either chinese or you've never worked in aeronautics. It's this line of thinking that has devastated so much of american academia and high tech.

>>11772090
>ESA actually does a lot of shit, but they never follow through on it.
We have a different view of what doing shit means i think. All i really know is that they don't follow through with anything and their Twitter is like an enthusiast's in comparison to the other space agencies.

>>11772098
>It's this line of thinking that has devastated so much of american academia and high tech.
It would be better than pretending that "keep them out lol" will do anything to defend "secrets" or block China from developing its capacity. Notice how there are industrial countries other than the UK? It's not because the Brits wanted that to happen.

>>11772094
>US space policy is unreasonably harsher towards China than it was towards the Soviet Union.
The USSR launched the first ICBM, the first satellite, the first man, conducted the first spacewalk, landed the first probe on the moon, mars, and venus.

Chinks have nothing to offer, any relationship with them results in unparalleled IP theft and displacement of US talent.

>>11772094
Probably because China has proven to be completely untrustworthy and engaged with a high amount aggressive espionage. Honestly i don't think the US is being hard enough on China.

>>11772110
The biggest realized US-Soviet project was Apollo-Soyuz, which did not involve any technological transfer.
An equivalent project with China is currently forbidden.
>Chinks have nothing to offer,
They have funding and substantial capability, which are always scarce. ESA is building the service module for Orion not because NASA is incapable, but because it defrays the costs and better uses the global talent pool.

How many years will Starship put the US ahead?
Aren’t other countries still trying to create F9 clones? Blue Origin is SpaceX’s closest competitor it seems and they still haven’t launched/landed an orbital vehicle.
Are we looking at a 20 year advantage?

>>11772154
Meant to add that Blue Origin is also US based so it looks like no other country will even be remotely close for a long time

>>11772151
I get your point but who gives a shit. The Romulans could offer these things to Picard but that doesn’t mean they should work together

>>11771371
I imagine because the Russians were no longer really communist thanks to their collapses, ships like Orel were able to be properly manufactured and produced. I imagine battleships would resemble the MTVs from the cancelled constellation program but more reusable and well, more russian looking. The Americans would also have built similar ships, but once again, more reusable.
I'd imagine the largest ones would be various tanks and engines bundled around eachother and wrapped in a steel skin, with a clusterfuck of modules connected around a large, habitable compartment.

>>11772154
ESA has a team working on a falcon9 clone, called retalt, but for now it only exists on paper.
But the DM2 mission has probably waked up people around the world that they will get left behind if they dont start doing more.
Musk is bruteforcing a new spacerace.

>>11771224

Orion can get you to Mars in 36 hours, to Saturn in a Week, and to fucking Planet 9 in about 2 months if it exists where predicted.

How is that not worth it?

>>11772154
I’m just going to parrot what other Anons have been saying because it’s all very interesting. Starship will change the game in spaceflight... probably for like 50-100 years. It will be the model T of spaceflight. Any other company will have to master reusability first, and then transition to a heavy lift version. This will take ages. Even if someone like China stole all the plans, they would need to build an expendable version just to have the same lift capabilities. Also spacex is claiming $2 mil per launch which is NOTHING. They could get away with charging everyone $100-200 mil if they wanted to

>>11772163
Like CoaDE ships but with whipple shields and less exposed radiators

>>11772176
>Retalt

Jesus I thought they named it “Retard” for a second

>>11772177
Nuclear bombs or reactors won’t fly for a while. Not saying they won’t ever, but not for a while. Too much red tape.

>>11772190
>CoaDE
Huh?

>>11772154
>How many years will Starship put the US ahead?
NaN. Spaceflight is so fucked up I genuinely believe no one would have gotten there without SpaceX spearheading.

>>11772194
Children of a dead earth
http://childrenofadeadearth.com/GameFeatures.html

>>11772199
Oh. Really seems interesting.

>>11772161
China is/will develop capability anyway, but will be far more combative/unilateral about what it does, at which point the US is/will start screaming about how China won't follow the "international norms" established in space or whatever.
The exclusion might also incentivise more espionage attempts, to gain quicker access to capabilities that they would otherwise use through partnership.

>>11772202
It is. The ship/module designer is really fun to fuck around with when you unlock it.

>>11772206
>They're going to spy on you anyways so may as well work with them.
And you claim not to be a shill? Get the fuck out of here.

>>11772151
Risk of Ip theft is not worth it. The Japanese and Russians offer capability and the Us is not worried about funding

>>11772176
>Musk is bruteforcing a new spacerace.
This is what's been cracking me up ever since the first booster reuse. Spacex proved that their ideas were viable, and everyone else started immediately scrambling to catch up. But catching up isn't good enough, because even if some other manufacturer or country unveiled an actual physical recoverable first stage tomorrow, they'd still be five years behind in terms of refinement and flight heritage.

The only other company I think might have the potential to challenge Spacex is Blue Origin, and that's only if they've managed to keep a hell of a lot of progress under wraps regarding New Glenn.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1269761768265445376 Elon going on a twitter spree, could anybody with a good sized twitter account ask Elon about who will be the type of people who actually man the starships?

>>11772154
It's more like an entire generation of rocket technology ahead of every other country and NASA as well. The design philosophy of Starship is entirely different from all other contemporary rockets. It's the Apollo program's lift capability but at a bare fraction of the cost, and you can build scores of them every year, and they can all be fired multiple times before needing to be replaced. The fuel component of the bipropellant is cheaper, the pressurization system is mechanically self-operating, the reentry protection has already passed muster after being exposed to days of reentry temperature (it's been hit with industrial steel heating torches up to levels beyond it's expected peak reentry temperature).
It's not hyperbolic to say that IF, IF it works, the world will have never seen a cheaper, more durable, easy to manufacture, easy to fuel, easy to launch rocket with such a large payload.

>>11772206
>Chinese shill
>Posts anime

Yikes, Weeb detected.

>>11772163
Yeah cool shit man. Would a space war using modern technologies have “Space-Only” ships like that, or would it be more like X-37’s and Space Shuttles being outfitted with guns.

In the setting I’m making humanity isn’t Interplanetary. I am thinking of adding a Lunar base to make the setting more interesting.

So far the American “fleet” consists of Space Shuttles that have a NERVA stage instead of the SSME’s. The shuttle stack is different too, with the boosters being liquid and having fly back wings, and the external tank having the engines instead of the orbiter.

The Russians would probably have the same thing but with Buran right? Or would they just use the TKS spacecraft?

Also CoaDE looks like a cool game. But that seems a bit farther into the future than what I’m looking at. Although it would make sense for Lunar Orbit to have Space-Only ships.

>>11772073
Working in a related sector on a TN (NAFTA only visa) is pretty easy to do, and it's not unreasonable to think that you would eventually find an American girl to marry if you settle down here. It can renewed indefinitely every 3 years, but it is NOT a duel intent visa. Basically, you would never tell the border officer / CBP that you wish to settle down in America.

Next, the infamous H1B. The big thing with H1B's is that there is a lottery, and that they are duel intent immigrant visas. I don't know much about the process (see reddit.com/r/h1b for advice and seething pajeets), but basically you can apply for a green card after getting it. However, the number of green cards issued every year is capped by country of birth.
>Family reunification has always been the main priority of the U.S. immigration system, so the bulk of green cards go to people sponsored by family members already in the country. A small share of total green cards — around 140,000 — are reserved for the employment category, per a 1990 immigration law. No one country can be allotted more than 7 percent of the total work visas, which feed into the employment-based green card pipeline (although visas left over in one category can roll over to another). Despite changes in the economy and labor market, this upper limit of 7 percent has remained the same since 1990.
Basically, at most 9800 H1B pajeets are allowed to apply every year, so they face a decades long backlog just to apply for a greencard, leaving them in an H1B limbo. If you're not born in india/china, there's not really any backlog.

To most of my European/5 eyes frens seeking to move to America, I tell them it's not worth it. It's really not so great here. But if your dream is to have a career in aerospace, you don't really have a choice. All things considered, it's probably easiest for a Canadian to move to the US.

Is there a good resource to get a catch-up on spaceX

>>11772220
>multiple times
Bit of a way to simplify at least 1000 uses

>>11772206
We will put them in their place. Let me give you a heads up... China can’t compete with the US. Do you really think China has the capability to land on the moon, send missions to Mars, etc? Those fucking idiots don’t give a fuck about anything. Half their rockets explode- the other half free fall into villages without concern. Fuck China and fuck their stupid fucking space program

>>11772221
Space shuttles would be horrible for space combat. Any purpose built space warships would utterly annihilate them.

>>11772221
I'm glad you have interesting ideas and hope to read your literature, but...
>Yikes, Weeb detected
Jesus christ, I don't like the weebs either, but please refrain from the plebbitese man.

>>11772227
They sent landers to the Moon but I see your point. China’s economy is summarized by fake GDP reports and lackluster viability. They are more capable than say, India, but it’s run by retards who do nothing but steal technology to flex their small Chinese communist dick

>>11772227
>the other half free fall into villages without concern
That's my concern. Unlike us, they don't give a shit about civillian casualties, so even if they go boom now, I fear they're gonna start raughing in terrible, terrible success.

>>11772154
At least a few decades, everyone else is trying to catch up to falcon 9.

>>11770762
Development of the game seems to have stopped.
Do you recommend playing it?

>>11772236
I’ll ask an open ended question to you and all other anons. Should we be concerned about the Chinese space program? They don’t seem too aggressive right now. They just seems stubborn. They’ve been blocked behind a wall by NASA yet they still have landed moon missions and sent astronauts to space stations. BUT they don’t seem hostile towards to US. Is this likely to change? Would a democratic POTUS who defunds Artemis and let’s the Chinese catch up put us in a bad position?

>>11772227
> has the capability to land on the moon
https://www.planetary.org/explore/space-topics/space-missions/change-4.html
>send missions to Mars,
https://spacenews.com/chinas-mars-mission-named-tianwen-1-appears-on-track-for-july-launch/
The ban also means that a NASA geologist could not discuss soil conditions on Mars with a CNSA geologist, which has nothing to do with IP.

>>11772214
>Spacex proved that their ideas were viable, and everyone else started immediately scrambling to catch up
Not even that, some sticked to expendable on the grounds that F9 wasn't capable of heavy lifting, thinking that for some reason reusability wouldn't catch up to the capacity of the heavy rockets

>>11772234
Sorry bro my bad

>>11772229
Yeah I was thinking of that.

Why build a fleet of ships when you can just have battle stations in LEO that can get routinely serviced by a Soyuz. It can just sit there and zap whoever’s coming.

That’s why I want to add “Oh yeah there’s a base on the moon too” to add more variety to the mix rather than “oh shit there’s a ship 1000 kilometers away throw a nuke at it”

>Trench warfare on the lunar surface

>>11772242
You should be concerned about China, period.

>>11772206
>China is/will develop capability anyway,
Decades after the rest of the world. Why would the US care?

>>11772242
> BUT they don’t seem hostile towards to US. Is this likely to change?
No one is pretending that the US-PRC relationship can be salvaged or that they will be anything other than hostile at the best of times.
>Would a democratic POTUS who defunds Artemis and let’s the Chinese catch up put us in a bad position?
Other than Artemis being a dead end, yes that would result in a net gain by China.
Starship is the US' killer app in space.
The trajectory of the legacy programs leads to ever-increasing costs, decreasing launches and relative stagnation.

>>11772248
Oldspace shills are practically fucked.
>>11772249
No problem.

>>11772154
More than a decade. Everyone is already behind Falcon 9 by at least five years and the reusable rockets currently in development will be outclassed by Starship by the time they're finished.

Does the payload bay sizing on Starship in the users manual include the cargo section seen on the crew version? It does right?

>>11770900
>Just because the US isn't communist right now, doesn't mean it isn't immune to societal collapse.

People really need to stop watching TV.

>>11772224
Its all heavily covered on youtube. Literally news videos every day of the week.

If you like books Space 2.0 is ok.

SpaceX is a short history and its quick to catch up. It goes Green House ICBMs, Falcon 1, scrapped Falcon 5, Falcon 9. Sueing everyone around them, ULA snipers, Dragon 1, Booster landing, Falcon Heavy, Starman, ITS, Dragon 2, BFR, Demo 1, Starship, Starlink, Demo 2.

>>11772267
I doubt that this would matter much. I think most non-American countries would just ban buying Starship launches to protect their own space agencies/companies until a suitable competitor to Starship is built. It's already happening today with Falcon 9.

>>11772214
It is incredible, without him i firmly believe the entire space industry would have become ESA tier masturbation.

>>11772223
god I hate pajeets, frens please come fill up the H1B lottery.
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-employment-green-card-backlog-tops-800000-most-of-them-indian-a-solution-is-elusive/2019/12/17/55def1da-072f-11ea-8292-c46ee8cb3dce_story.html

>>11771215
>Current systems take a year or more to reach Mars

Who told you that lie? Transit time to Mars is 6-9 months

>>11771244
>no, nuclear electric and nuclear thermal won't help you get to Mars faster

The more you accelerate, the quicker you arrive.

>especially because you won't be able to aerobrake in Mars atmosphere with those radiators

Retractable radiators

>>11771905
>like what possible force could be holding back people of color from opining on space-related topics via youtube?

IQ

>>11772073
Get married there’s no point to life without a nice marriage

>spacex will fly employees to boca if they have to
here's how you know it's serious

>>11772227
Exactly this, the US has falcon 9, starship and SLS should be flying by the end of this year, blue origin is working on new glen and you have R&D from the 60s on forward. Not only is elon pushing the boundaries but if in need the US government would kick shit into gear and you would see an impressive piece of tech. The one good thing about oldspace is that they are competent enough to produce good tech when under pressure.

>>11771528
Probably so they can pay employees less due to cheaper cost of living

>>11772235
India is way nicer I don’t give a shit if they have a weaker economy

>>11772287
fuck those guys. it was hard to get a job here because people preferred h1b's no matter what. now americans actually have a chance at getting american jobs.

>>11772340
Rent is a bajillion dollars in California

>>11772340
South Texas is one of the poorest places in America. I think the average person there makes under $20,000 a year.

>>11771493
because even in the future, the vast majority of humanity's capital and industry will be on the earth

>>11772284
>I think most non-American countries would just ban buying Starship launches to protect their own space agencies/companies until a suitable competitor to Starship is built.
Which, given the mass-to-orbit-per-year capability of Starship, will put all those countries impossibly far behind in terms of space presence. It'll be like if Columbus arrived in the New World only to find out that the Vikings had already built highways there.

>>11772367
Yeah I'm so excited, the presence in space is about to explode with Starship.

At least their buildings are nice to look at...

>>11772403
Ooo featureless boxes

>>11772403
Rocket WHERE?
Rocket WHEN?
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>11772403
nothing tops Sprung enclosures, eight thousand United Rentals boom lifts and taco trucks

>>11772420
2021. But without the bunch of oneweb launches, idk what they'll actually put in space

>>11772422
So new glenn will fly for the first time when starship is doing orbital tests

>>11772434
Most likely. Bezos must be feeling the pressure

>>11772434
probably. i'm afraid musk is going to pay the price for his 'rapid development' kick. the truth is that starship is being built under totally different circumstances than falcon. if they keep blowing up it'll be 2024 before one flies

>>11772443
>it'll be 2024 before one flies
which is still faster than most other rockets being developed
SN3 and SN4 both seemed be blown up by unrelated issues, though, so you're probably right that they're being a little sloppy

>>11772443
>if they keep blowing up it'll be 2024 before one flies
Why do so many people think they're going to keep blowing them up? Also their turnaround time was around a week.

I-is it happening /sfg/?? Are we really going to mars...

Been a while since I did this. Here is the galley prototype, might redo this with a few improvements since I got some water on it.

>6 microwaves
>4 dishwashers
>2 big sink with drain boards
>2 6 hob induction cookers
>2 massive double fridges
>6m of bench space
>4m couch
>12 seater breakfast bar around central ladderway
>stowage under breakfast bar and couch
>freezer space below bench tops
>300mm spray foam insulation

Thoughts?

>>11772443
>can't they just go slow? Isn't that faster?
I'm so sick of seeing this argument. No, slow is not fast. Put it in perspective. BO took 5 years to test some engines. SpaceX churns out new Starship prototypes every month.

>>11772459
Yes and the space cowboys out in Texas are probably going to be leading the way

>>11772109
>It would be better than pretending that "keep them out lol" will do anything to defend "secrets" or block China from developing its capacity.
Fuck off, chink.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-nonimmigrants-certain-students-researchers-peoples-republic-china/

>>11772459
We are all gonna make it anon

>>11772443
>if they keep blowing up it'll be 2024

When SN4 blew up wasn't SN5 basically ready to go with SN6 behind it? Now they have like 3 rockets almost ready for testing?

>>11772458
It's not that them blowing up prototypes is an issue, it's just hard not to worry about flight readiness when they can barely load a tank without it blowing up. It just seems like there are some serious quality control issues. I don't doubt that they can develop starship within a few years, but a launch this year seems absurd

>>11771975
>Not that the US doesn't scream when China fails to submit to an order that offers nothing than a position of permanent servitude to it.
Maybe you should have built your economy on something other than naked theft, faggots.

>>11772469
And SN7 ready to be stacked. It literally just took a week to reset and clear the test site.

>>11772455
You're not wrong. I hope musk can pull it off asap, though. Even then, what's going to happen when one blows up 50 colonists because there's no LES? Imagine some future administration decides it's bad PR and bans private manned launches.

>>11772478
>Imagine some future administration decides it's bad PR and bans private manned launches.
That genie's not going back in the bottle.

>>11772471
It only seems absurd because you aren't paying attention. Also they can load a tank just fine and they can fire the engines just fine. Once again you just aren't paying attention

>>11772460
have a ring of stuff on the INSIDE, and people on the outside. Consider the corners in your kitchen; they're pretty much useless. A continually curving area of stuff is sort of the same. You want the pie pieces of utility zones to have the pokey bit of the pie facing away from the user

>>11772475
And your countrys economy is built on built on making murder tools to sell and to kill women and children in disgustingly fraudulent endless wars

>>11772471
Each issue has been different though. At first it was insufficiently strong welds, then it was the thrust pl8 structure, then it was a fueling procedure fuckup with a relief valve or something, and the most recent one is a plumbing issue. No pop has been the same pop as last time, that means the issues are being solved and are not inherent to the design of the vehicle. I mean personally I would have over-rated some of the equipment, like valves and plumbing, but when each test vehicle costs basically nothing (compared to Elon's billions in wealth) to manufacture and they're practically spilling out of the assembly line, there's also no major reason to try and avoid popping the soda cans either. As long as you figure out what the catastrophic failure mode was and eliminate it from the next iteration then you haven't really lost anything except a few weeks of assembly time, which is again, basically nothing in terms of rocket construction timelines usually measured in years.

>>11772488
>And your countrys economy is built on built on making murder tools
Yes, and proud of it. Go cry some more, faggot.

>>11772486
Your picture isn't really representative though because it's such a mild curve it's more or less like a straight line kitchen. I thought about putting implements on the inside ring but there's not real enough room and 100 people need big kitchens.

>>11772482
It might if it doesn't start making money fast enough. We're decades away, at best, from any real attempts at space mining or manufacturing. Mars is a money sink for the government, and they could undo some privatization if there are serious accidents. You know congress isn't very smart about NASA decisions.

>>11772478
>what's going to happen when one blows up 50 colonists because there's no LES?
Literally noone will care. Starship will have successful launches before failures so when a failure does happen they will proclaim they fixed the weak point and it will be business as usual. You have to remember, starship is going to be more akin to an airplane than the old rocket systems

>>11772443
>if they keep blowing up it'll be 2024 before one flies

They make one a month

>>11772486
But the red guy can reach all the places more easily.

>>11772488
Have fun not making it to space chink

B1059 is quite scorched

How many people do we think will willingly move from a good life in SoCal to a job in swampland Mexi- I mean Texas?

>>11772488
>And your countrys economy is built on built on making murder tools to sell and to kill women and children in disgustingly fraudulent endless wars

Hell yeah. Pacifists are beta males

>>11772516
>SoCal
>Good life

Dumb question, but why are rockets so prone to explosions?

>>11772516
>go from paying out the ass for an apartment the size of a cubicle and dealing with c*lifornians all day to a cheap living in a retirement villa in south texas
Anyone sane

>>11772488
GOD bless it!
USAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSA!

>>11772507
debatable, I still think it's a more anthopromophicly-considerate design / more space efficient

>>11772524
They are made of concentrated explode and a thin jacket of not explode to keep the explode in, with a nozzle on the end for explode to come out

>>11772526
Most SpaceX employees are young. A retirement villa sounds like hell to them.

>>11772488
The absolute cope. Have fun landing silkworms on the moon for the next 50 years Chang

>>11772504
>You have to remember, starship is going to be more akin to an airplane than the old rocket systems
I'm still a skeptic on this. The energies that a spacecraft is subject to are orders of magnitudes more than planes. There is much higher potential for accidents, and quality control is more complicated. The turnaround for F9 is incredible, but they still have to change some parts and do a full scan of all the internals each time. These things aren't going to be flying like airplanes, it'll be a few dozen launches a year maximum for the foreseeable future.

anybody have the interview with that russian oldspace bureaucrat where he talks about this?

>>11772529
>debatable

>>11772504
Agree 100% but be careful with the wording there buckaroo. You’ll bring out the “Starship is a spaceplane” mouth breathers

God I can’t wait for Starship launches to finally say “fuck you” to bad weather scrubs.

The Falcon 9 is just too tall and lanky for the kind of launch cadence we need to go interplanetary

>>11772524
Rockets are essentially pressure vessels full of two highly purified liquids which (in the case of hypergols) will instantly ignite on contact with each-other, or at the very least will instantly ignite on contact with each-other in the presence of the smallest spark. The amount of these liquids is usually in the range of hundreds to thousands of tons. In addition, rockets generally hold these liquids at high pressures in very thin, very light pressure vessels.

>>11772539
i mean.... it's got wings..... so.........

>>11772530
>>11772545
ok, thanks

>>11772538
we'll just have to see, anon. When SpaceX unveils the actual interior I'll own up... or laugh smugly at you

>>11772548
Elon has specifically said that they're for orientation and do not generate lift on purpose

>>11772516
>good life in SoCal
You are in a bubble if you think this exists.

>>11772548
Oh god dammit. They don’t generate lift. They look like wings but that’s only to aid in aerodynamics during launch. When Starship lands, it basically points straight up and uses those fins to drag itself down to speed and bleed off as much energy as possible before landing upright. Shuttle was the complete opposite- it entered the atmosphere parallel to the ground and used it’s wings for gliding to a runway

>>11772534
>it'll be a few dozen launches a year maximum for the foreseeable future.
Yeah ill believe you over the company that is making them...

>>11772566
>>11772548
Here we go

>>11771919
thats a naughty man on the right in that pic

>>11772572
says the company that is currently doing a few dozen launches a year MAX

>>11772524
>>11772550
I don't want to be mean, or question your honesty, but how is it that you are on /sci/ being unaware of such basic things?

>>11772534
Just make more of them so you can launch more

>>11772581
With the most active launcher in the world which happens to be less reusable and less robust than the ship in question will be

>>11772516
Tightest specification requirements

>>11772581
With a different vehicle, completing a different role, after only a few years.

Peoples that would make good contributions to a martian colony and an independent culture, assuming we're not talking about general NPCs
Feel free to add

>Americans
Pros: Pioneering spirit; history is about colonizing frontiers and culture rewards those a little bit clever and a lot of ambition, great for expansion and ambitious achievements
Also freedom and expert at removing native ayys
Cons: Eternal Anglo genes run through him, making him sometimes to taking advantage of people even if he doesn't mean to

>Russians
Pros, The russian has a very broad back, physical and mental toughness in tough environments, can work with little sanity loss in hostile environments, conservative and resistant to sjwism
Cons: Hard headed, takes severe population trauma to change their minds
Can and will drink rubbing alcohol with no issues

>Japanese
Pros: teamwork is super synergistic and can achieve great efficiency.
Sharp minds and insistence on education hones the mind to a sharp edge
Cons: Hivemind; lack of individuality and insistence on conformity does not conduct true innovation well
Massive perverts: Look at japanese art from the last 1000 years if you need proof

>>11771919
>ITAR is this remarkable shield that has insulated SpaceX and others from incompetent pajeets and spying chinese
I desperately hope the next round of federal cloud contracts imposes ITAR on Amazon and Microsoft. Flush the poos.

>>11772605
And by imposes ITAR I mean company wide, like SpaceX. Right now Amazon and Microsoft can still develop software outside the US if they go through some bullshit to hand off to a US citizen deploy in GovCloud regions.

>>11772605
>tech companies lose half their workforce overnight
would be fun, though in reality the cloud tech is already being developed by people valid for ITAR, poos never get assigned to 'core' systems like that

>>11772488
Your country's economy is based on running over children.

>>11772601
>French
Catering

>>11772605
>>11772611
oh god I would fucking cream myself, I just graduated into this chink flu / race war shitshow.

>>11770681
How catastrophic could space militarization end up being?

>>11772601
>pioneering spirit
>modern Americans
Pioneering expanding wastelines maybe.
How about
>cons: conceited due to an unwarranted belief that they share the mythologized traits of their ancestors

>>11772601
>Hivemind; lack of individuality and insistence on conformity does not conduct true innovation well
Those are chinks, nips are more conformed because "i must commit sudoku because i faired to get arr points above 100% on math test"

>>11772631
You type like someone with an irrelevant space program lmao

>>11772631
>>>/int/ might be more your speed, /sci/ is an American board

>>11772611
>though in reality the cloud tech is already being developed by people valid for ITAR, poos never get assigned to 'core' systems like that
NOPE. AWS org is full of poos and chinks, and Amazon Linux is developed in Germany. They just have US citizens do the actual deployment.

t. AWS dev

>>11772488
the murder tools are a side business
>>11772510
Starlink launches are really dirty for some reason
>>11772548
bless you

>>11772631
You can only bash America in this thread if your country has a robust space program: either launching astronauts to LEO, launching major ISS components, or landing man on the Moon. Until then I suggest you charge your airpods and go register your butterknife before you get arrested for possession of a deadly weapon.

>>11772631
Spacex is an American company, blue orgin is an American company, NASA had Americans walking on the moon and there are Americans currently in space as we speak. Tell me about the space exploration of your country.

>>11772647
Also parts of EC2 are in South Africa, and part of S3 is in Canada.

>>11772566
both Starship and Shuttle will enter the atmosphere at nearly the same AoA
the only difference is that Starship transitions to perpendicular to the airstream and Shuttle transitioned to slightly off parallel to the airstream once they're out of the hypersonic regime

>>11772635
>Only 5% of Americans consider themselves well-informed about astronomy and space exploration, roughly 20% consider themselves ‘very interested’ in space, and only ⅓ believe the benefits outweigh the costs.
Vast majority of Americans have neither the interest in space nor the ability to contribute to anything meaningful in it.
The nation-state paradigm is not useful for developing meaningful presence in space. It's why 60 years after Vostok 1, the maximum number of humans concurrently in space is 13. At this stage real action will come from companies like SpaceX or Blue Origin, and the traits they're looking for are highly uncommon, not innate characteristics of any nation.

>>11772648
Starlink launches are the heaviest F9 payloads launched. I assume that translates to some sort of additional atmospheric slamming of the first stage

past the bump limit, someone make a fuck pajeets edition thread

>>11772653
This is absolutely fucking false. Shuttle had a 40° AoA to stay in the upper atmosphere and help save its fragile heat shield. Starship enters at like 90° and slows itself down as fast as possible

>>11772657
no, it’s not page 10 yet
learn to /sci/

>>11772657
Wait until we're on page 8 or so.

>>11772657
We’re only on page two you dingaling. The only time this general gets ended early is when the jannies decide we’ve gotten too political

>>11772060
Based flipmate

>>11772659
>Starship enters at 90
no, Starship is going to enter at 60 or 70 degrees AoA for hypersonic lift without compromising the heatshield
it's necessary for Mars aerocapture (although in that case Starship will be trying to stay deeper in the atmosphere while its orbital path wants to pull it out

>>11772654
Most Americans aren't interested in serving aboard aircraft carriers and yet every other nation is an also-ran to our naval and air superiority. Enjoy the era where 'uninterested' Americans are also the only relevant factor in space.
God bless.

>>11772667
I don’t want to be a “show me your sources” fag but last I checked it was 90°. Also why have there been so many people circlejerking about “hypersonic lift”... it’s like one person mentioned it a week ago and everyone magically believes it now. The fins on the Starship only exist to create a shit ton of drag and orient the Starship during atmospheric plummeting- Elon has mentioned this multiple times

>>11772680
nah, 90 is for terminal subsonic descent, they need lift while hypersonic

>>11772629
Only beneficial. War is based and we should fight wherever we can

>>11772094
>unreasonably
Go fuck yourself, garlic eating wumao nigger.

>>11772478
>Imagine some future administration decides it's bad PR and bans private manned launches.
lol do it from the ocean.
I think any sane administration would also be aware of the economic importance and potential of letting private manned spaceflight expand.

>>11772689
I think DM-2 perma killed that threat, honestly.
>governments will always want manned space access
>Crew Dragon can carry as many astronauts as the Shuttle, do it to a higher orbit, and do it for 5% of the cost and four times the cadence
>Starship will be even better

>>11772695
What’s cadence

>>11772697
Turnaround time. You could get one Shuttle launch every couple of months. You can do a Crew Dragon launch every two weeks if they build three capsules and reuse them.

>>11772697
launch frequency

Once starship becomes a thing, what are we going to do in space?

>>11772708
Colonize, expand, research our solar system, and most importantly- escape this gay fucking planet

>>11772708
Everything, anon. Everything. We're looking at a future where a handful of autistic frog posters can afford putting a satellite in orbit and returning a frog safely to Earth. Imagine what people with actual resources could accomplish.

>>11772708
Build cities on Mars, Luna, pretty much everywhere that makes sense to do so
Test new types of engines and technologies away from screeching NIMBYfags

>>11772708
The part I'm excited about, other than colonization, is the era of cheaper, more robust space, more capable space infrastructure in general. No more 'muh ounces'. There will be a big lag time between Starship coming online and that realization though.

Black and metallic blue looks so cool, i wish it was more important.

>>11772708
Fuck furry alien space bitches

Why did BO stop launching? I thought we were weeks away from suborbital tourism not too long ago?

>>11772713 #
>>11772711 #
>>11772715 #
>>11772723 #
I hope we focus on infrastructure, we need quick communications, fuel depots, ship construction facilities and more

>>11772739
No. Blue Origin has launched New Shepard once a year or so. They've never gotten the cadence much above that.

>>11772739
New Shepard's flight cadence always makes everyone wonder "what happened to NS" once it hasn't flown in a few months, only for them to announce an upcoming flight soon after. I bet it won't be too much longer until another flight, though I have my doubts about manned NS flights any time soon.

>>11772741
We need to design and build large laser communication satellites that send and receive long distance signals and microwave them to local destinations like ships, colonies etc.

>>11772743
>It's a small rocket
>Doesn't even go orbital
>Reentry stresses should be trivial
>Only launches once per year
Is BO even trying?

>>11772754
no

>>11772754
Boeing will do more than SpaceX will, don't put all your eggs in one basket SpaceXshitters

>>11772803
Depots

>>11772803
Yes I’m very excited for Boeing to unveil their 100% reusable rocket and quick turnaround times for launches

>>11772803
hang on there are people who actually defend that travesty of a company? wow I thought they were just memes

Boing!

>>11772751
I think we need repeater satellites on solar orbit between earth and mars. Also think a base on venus would be a good idea

>>11772810
I don't think anyone outside specific oldspace bastions has seriously held this opinion for about a year at this point, it's just chewed up bait

>>11772808
They have one. It's called the SLS MAX 8.

>>11772820
Coming 2059 of course

>>11772820
He said reusable, not refurbishable.

>>11772803
Boeing doesn't have an incentive to go to mars nor are they winning anything in space right now. I'd love some competition for spacex but i will be a spacex fan until another company comes out and declares a colony as their goal no matter the cost.

>>11772823
>>11772825
genuinely keep coping

>>11772830
Let me ask you this: apart from being edgy, what is your case for defending Boeing. Why is spacex bad

>>11772820
"SLS MAX 8" has 3 results on google, two of which are a thread in a german race car forum, and the third of which is an instagram post by a russian about his car.
Very nice rocket you have there

>>11772823
That's too soon. Boeing is a company of quality and safety. 2069 at the earliest with $20B more in funding for the safety of American astronauts.

>>11772825
It's completely reusable, until there's an AoA issue.

>>11772840
Your research wasn't good enough. Here's a concept study of the rocket.

>>11772845
HOW CAN WE RECOVER FROM THIS COMPETITION MUSKFANS

>>11772845
I thought sls was Lockheed

>>11772832
spacex is not bad, but it WILL fail. It's too productive for its own good, it will sink under the pressure in less than 5 years and be absorbed into Boeing and the public sector

>>11772860
boeing is the prime contractor, lockheed does orion

>>11772861
On the other hand, SpaceX does only two things: rockets, and starlink satellites. Their board won't be distracted nearly as easily as most of their oldspace competitors.

What do you think about elons tweet considering ocean launch platforms? I like the idea but I suspect it will get stopped by environmental stuff. The massive shock that will be imparted into the ocean will be like fishing with dynamite x1000000.

>>11772881
no laws at sea, matey

>>11772881
What shock? It's not sea dragon, it still launches from above the waterline. A single fishing boat would be more impactful

>>11772881
Better to waste a few dumb fish than the many species of birds that nest near the coast. Also bird-stirkes can and do happen, See: STS-114.

>>11772881
Fuck the environment

>>11772881
We have nuked oceans, have thousands of large ships, submarines doing sonar, mines laid out, etc.

Rocket launching from ocean platform, ala refurbished oil rig, is nothing

>>11772881
worth it

>>11772866
Ah thats right it was Orion

>>11772881
I don't think shock would be a problem since the structure needed to launch a rocket like Starship would be more like an oil rig rather than the current drone ships that Space X uses

>>11772921
You can launch it straight from the water. Shock is minimal. Fish under it would be fucked but in the grand scheme of things it wouldn’t be much different than worrying about birds hitting the shuttle

>>11772921
The Russians have already done this, so the precedent is there.

>>11772934
I imagine a sea launch would push the refurbishment cost to unacceptable levels

>>11772934
Pic related is basically a continuous underwater explosion, THAT's a lotta damage. The transfer of shock from air into water is minuscule by comparison, I doubt it would be significant more than a meter underwater

>>11772934
As far as we know Starship isn't being built for that sort of maneuver though

>>11772934
> t. Never owned a boat
Salt water is evik anon. A platform works just fine.

>>11772948
Yeah I would imagine saltwater would fuck shit up hardcore
>>11772957
I mean it’s for sure not a sea launch vehicle lmao. They have plans to launch it from the sea though and I imagine it will just be a modified landing pad- something similar to their drone ship but it probably will be stationary

Do you guys think the Space Force will ever buy Starships for their own internal use?

>>11772978
of course. The premise of being able to deploy troops anywhere on Earth in under an hour is too good to pass up. It's the kind of military supremacy they could only dream about just a few months ago.

>>11772983
how many troops + equipment could they strap into a E2E starship?

>>11772983
Holy fuck I haven’t even considered this. Deployment anywhere in the world in under 45 mins. It would essentially be a C130 on steroids

>>11772983
>>11772988
dude imagine setting up the logistics for strapping a shitton of your boys into a screaming tin can all the way to pakiland in under an hour
shit but I mean if there's any organization that's good at logistics that's gotta be the military so hey they could do it

>>11772988
I think for short trips the limiting factor wouldn't be how many you could pack but how fast you could get them in and out. Maybe a specially built Starship for troop transport or general E2E could make it faster

>>11772229
>Space shuttles would be horrible for space combat
They would be used for space to ground nuclear first strikes with high cross-range requirements.

>>11772881
You'd just launch it from a platform. What you're really benefiting from is great distance from property which protects you both from noise and road closure complaints and from potential damage complaints if something pops, and also an infinite supply of water for the flame deflector. You can have ideal propellant isolation pre-launch, and perhaps most importantly you can position your launch site directly on the equator to maximize launch efficiency.

>>11772983
that's completely retarded, why the fuck would you ever need to land an unsupported platoon enemy territory?
First wave of an invasion will be an air / missile strike. Strategic airlift will then bring the troops with their tanks and shit. For a SOCOM operation stealth choppers will do the trick.

If the enemy has any SAM capability left they will obliterate starships with ease. It's a fucking retarded idea, aerial domination is the key to victory not slamming troops down warhammer 40k style.

>>11773045
ok, but imagine a starship landing right in the middle of red square

>>11773045
Okay but we transport a majority of troops on C130s. Typically you build an airfield at established sites that have been captured and are well behind enemy lines in safe areas. In this case you just need a flat field and a methane/oxygen processing station. I mean you’re just as susceptible in a Starship as you are in a slow ass C130.

>>11771312
this

>>11773056
really? do you really think it will ever be more practical to hoverslam troops down in a fucking suborbital rocket? not to mention that troops need trucks, APC's, and tanks.

>>11773056
And c130's can fly low and evade radar and SAM once the air force has cleared out some airspace. A suborbital rocket is just a larger ICBM, asking to be shot down by some SM6 equivalent launched 100 miles away.

>>11773075
I’m just entertaining the idea. I’ve got nothing wrong with how we do it now. But if E2E starships becomes a thing (and larger starships like the interstellar transport ones) become a reality it wouldn’t be out of reason. That’s all I’m saying. You could transport hundreds of troops and heavy logistics across the globe at unfathomably speed and timing.

>>11773055
there are easier ways to do that