/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11682667

Aether is "dragged" by the Earth. In fact our entire solar system is within the drag.

The idea that MM thought they could get above the Aether on a mountain is... its clamped retard shit on a flat-Earth level. Literally equivalent to saying that air does not exist because air is still on a mountaintop. The only people more retarded than MM are those who actually cannot see this error in logic.

>>11682862
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat

>>11682872

>>11682667
well.... quantum field theory now considers that there is a matrix (a priori its everywhere in the cosmos same as the aether concept) where the Electromagnetic phenomena "occurs", for example a photon would be a perturbation of this matrix...

this guy is a good intro to this (dont be put off by all the cringe, his vids are decent):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Ac8zKTD-E

and this is the reason why physics changed his approach to purelly abstract instead of a proper physical model :

Fundamental lectures Richard Feynman:
>The best way is to use the abstract field idea . That it is abstract (metaphysical) is unfortunate, but necessary. The attempts to try to represent the electric field as the motion of some kind of gear wheels, or in terms of lines, or of stresses in some kind of material have used up more effort of physicists than it would have taken simply to get the right answers about electrodynamics. It is interesting that the correct equations for the behavior of light were worked out by MacCullagh in 1839. But people said to him: “Yes, but there is no real material whose mechanical properties could possibly satisfy those equations, and since light is an oscillation that must vibrate in something, we cannot believe this abstract equation business.” If people had been more open-minded, they might have believed in the right equations for the behavior of light a lot earlier than they did.
https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_01.html#Ch1-S5


but at least now physics considers fields as real things with identities or properties, so in a way we could say that the intuition/experience of early physicist and experimenters like maxwell , farady or tesla was correct (and by way of basic logic there has to be something mediating this forces, that faynman quote is very clear to undertands why physics avoided talking about it as real thing)

>>11682862
Could someone explain this mountain that I keep seeing?

>>11683225
I was thinking the exact same thing lol. The idea behind aether is quite similar to EM field. The best way to shut up any conspiracy theorist is to say that scientists in a way agree with them.

>>11683389

Aether is still at Earth level because its dragged by the Earth. Its a fucking "fluid". They call it the Higgs Field now which is just a backpeddle after physicists realized how badly they fucked up by discarding aether.

Anyway, MM thought, "maybe if we conduct our experiement on a mountain we can get above the aether." So they conducted the experiment on a mountain and again the aether was still. So for 100 years scientists said the aether had been disproven and not a single one of these actual clamped fucking retards thought, "ya know, air is still on a mountain too, but air exists". The folly is... it's on a whole nother level... and they teach this shit in schools! My only explanation is that MM must be a test to separate the alphas from the betas. Any true, soverign free thinker would recognize the error in MM immediately. Thats the test. Leadership cannot just be about regurgitating shit. It needs to be about calling out shit even when all of science preaches it as gospel.

>>11683701
OK, schizo.

>>11682667
>>11682862
Are there any acknowledged rebuttals of MM that are basically refined versions of this?
How can you do an experiment with a variable that is totally out of your control? If aether exists they didn't think that maybe it would (unprovably) form an ocean-like current on the scale of solar-systems / galaxies?

>>11683225
>this guy is a good intro to this (dont be put off by all the cringe, his vids are decent):

You were exactly right. It was very fucking cringy...but it was also very informative. The understanding of quantum fields and quantum field theory was worth the cringe.

>>11683701
>>11682877

>>11683796
>If aether exists they didn't think that maybe it would (unprovably) form an ocean-like current on the scale of solar-systems / galaxies?

Correct. MM and their clamped morons thought the aether was static. They really were and are this stupid. To even be the force carrier for electromagnetism it would have to be fluid like, and they figured that it was static. They are literally morons

When you see this shill in a thread start reporting him for tolling so we can clean this board up and have a conversation above 6th grade level for once around here mmkay >>11683771

>>11683924
Are you talking to yourself, schizo?

>>11683924

Imagine that. A board full of all kinds of ridiculous and antisocial bullshit, and the post that makes you REEEEE and reach for the banhammer is the guy explaining exactly why MM is brainlet tier. Whats the matter? Cannot use your big boy words to refute? You are a pathetic intellectual pussycat.

>>11683701
>air is still on a mountain
t. never been /out/

>>11684302

Of you don't understand the clamped nature of the MM mountain experiment, their entire premise was that on a mountain the aether would be whipping by Earth at 60,000 miles per hour, because they figured that aether was static relative to Earth. Fucking air is not even static relative to Earth. The logic of MM is WORSE than the logic used by flat Earthers. Brainlet tier does not even begin to describe it.

>>11683225
>quantum field theory now considers that there is a matrix (a priori its everywhere in the cosmos same as the aether concept)
>a priori
no, use a different word

>>11684374
>no, use a different word

The only reason "Academia" does not want us to use the word aether is because it highlights how embarrassing it is that they rejected it and then had to double back using proxi words. It truly is a religion with you people. You people act like something changed since the days when you were burning heliocentrists alive. No, nothing much changed. You just blacklist the truth speakers now and force them into poverty and destitution which might even be worse than swift death desu. Get your fucking shit together. Its sickening.

>>11683701
It can be disproven by simple optics logic. Sky would look pretty funky if that was the case

>>11684689
hmmm interesting

the earth is flat and stationary.

MM didn't disprove the aether. it proved the EARTH IS MOTIONLESS.

then einstein created relativity to try to save the motion of the earth.

believe in non-verifiable spacetime bending, or flat earth? your choice.

>>11684345
this seems like a "the universe rotates around the earth" level of question we abandoned when the data said it was stupid.

>>11684719
The reason being, you would see a more significant dispersion, and it would change wrt Earths propagation direction

>>11682667
The mirrors where placed parallel and perpendicular to a beam splitter light would have been split between the two mirrors with the distance from mirrors to the beamsplitter being equal so that light takes two path of different distances due to earth's rotation, the beam parallel to earth's rotation travels a larger distance as such there should be an interference pattern on the screen however none was observed so light speed from both frames the earth frame and aether frame were the same creating relativity >>11682667

>>11684689
>It can be disproven by simple optics logic. Sky would look pretty funky if that was the case

Um. No. Not really. How are you people this stupid?

Aether is the medium of light. Light "passes right through it" just like sound passes through air.

Jesus fucking christ. How the fuck you people look at the data for dark matter which does not interact with electromagnistism and not realize its because dark matter is electromagnetisms fucking medium? Like... how... how fucking dumb do people have to be?

Is sound all super distorted because air ripples around fucking constantly? Rarely. But heres the thing. LIGHT IS DISTORTED by the Aether. It's called lensing and its detectable.

How the hell do I have to be the one to answer all these questions for people?

We pay how many fucking people with gov funding to answer these questions and they come up with dumb ass string theory and worthless colliders (which only accomplishment was to "discover Higgs field which is literally just an aether proxy field) etc... while physics is being unified for free and at personal expense by randos on the dark web. What a fucking joke this world is.

>>11685495
>>>/x/

>>11684742
>this seems like a "the universe rotates around the earth" level of question we abandoned when the data said it was stupid.

We never abandoned it!!! Thats what makes this so infuriating!!!! These children took the result of an experiment that was as bad as something a flat Earther would hobble together and they, ALL OF THEM, then forked real science for 100 fucking years while making off with the adults hard earned tax dollars!!!!

>>11685512
>>11684742

>>11685503

Oh fuck you. Your MM has, all along been the conspiracy schizo tier bullshit.

People like you want humanity to be stupid. It makes people easier to control and extract resources from. Trillions are tied up in the ignorance business: entire religions and their Universities, colliders, funding projects, "experts" etc...

The enlightenment is an existential threat to the entire scam.. they are terrified of a world where people understand for themself and don't need to scamper to the "high priests" with every little issue. Maybe you are in on this, or maybe you are just a stupid stupid sheep doing their bidding. Doesn't matter. Fuck you.

>>11685551
just report him trolling/low quality/underage posting

>>11685495
Well, at least gov funding has at least accomplished something

>>11685565
>ust report him trolling/low quality/underage posting

Anon, I hope you can all see this and understand what is happening. On a board filled to the brim with antisocial nonsense, THIS is what gets the new religion of "Academia" in a twist. If they were secure with MM then they would not need to resort to BANS on mother fucking 4chan against people who expose the lie. Seriously think about this. And then follow the money. They use MM as their tool to keep people stupid so they can get more funding for more fake experiments like the collider projects. Aether IS real. But by denying the obvious truth of aether they can propogate the mystery and sell the cure. It's a scam. Always was.

>>11685565
>just report him trolling/low quality/underage posting

It is unfucking believable how right I am. You wouldn't have been triggered otherwise. Jesus, what a world.

>>11685672
if all you can add to a thread is "/x/" and "schizo" fuck you hack wtf could you possibly be right about you retarded fucking cunt? I'm sick of you drooling fucking donkeys ruining every thread with your shit tier posts, logical fallacies and name calling. If you don't know wtf you are talking about then don't post you worthless fucking cunt

>>11685672

You got me mixed up. I'm an not even remotely one of those guys.

>>11685678

But I share your sentiment 100%.

I was responding to a person who's only response to an epic MM teardown was "just ban him". Like you said. Those people offer nothing. They have their cozy little tax payer funded offices where they maintain the lie and they REEEEE anytime anyone exposes the lie.

>>11684345
Don't make me give you the clamps!

>>11685678
if the thread is /x/-tier then >>>/x/ is the best contribution a person could make
speaking of which >>>/x/

>>11684374
>no, use a different word
Why?

>>11685678
If the aether is real how do you explain the successes of special relativity in explaining time dilation? Your GPS in your phone literally wouldn't work without the corrections provided by this math.

How do you explain the success of general relativity in explaining the anomalous perihelion shift in the orbit of Mercury if it's all based on fake nonsense? Why should false ideas match reality more accurately if they're as wrong as you claim?

>>11686476
Because its not the same thing. Big difference is Aether says there is an ultimate reference frame, SR says there's not. Stop changing the definition till it aligns with actual science

>>11682667
>>11682872
>>11683796
>>11683771

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_result

Look, it even has this stupid "experiment" as an example

>>11686502
>how do you explain the successes of special relativity in explaining time dilation?
Descriptions cannot be "wrong". However when it comes to explaining what light is, why it acts the way it does, and how time can possible exist as something that does something, SR fails miserably.

>Your GPS in your phone literally wouldn't work without the corrections provided by this math.
There is absolutely no experimental proof/confirmations of Einstein's Velocity-Composition law, which is what people refer to when they repeat this meme post. It has to do with phase shift/EMR.

>>11686502
>If the aether is real how do you explain the successes of special relativity in explaining time dilation? Your GPS in your phone literally wouldn't work without the corrections provided by this math.
>How do you explain the success of general relativity in explaining the anomalous perihelion shift in the orbit of Mercury if it's all based on fake nonsense? Why should false ideas match reality more accurately if they're as wrong as you claim?

Newton was only wrong because he assumed that gravity effects were instantaneous. Einstein corrected this. This is what you are referring to. And this is completely and utterly consistent with aether. Understand that it was not always common knowledge that gravity and light both propogate at a set speed. Einstein made that common knowledge. Time diliation is literally only the delay in information traveling through the aether in electromagnetic waves. I get that you think there is more to it than that. There is not. There is no real time travel involved. It is simply an information delay. An illusion almost identical to doppler effect. Now, pop-sci and increasingly even educated people, they stoke the mystery and even mislead to keep the mystery alive. But there is no mystery here.

>>11686551
>Because its not the same thing. Big difference is Aether says there is an ultimate reference frame, SR says there's not. Stop changing the definition till it aligns with actual science

It was almost always assumed that the aether had no particle makeup and was perfectly viscous, i.e. no internal reference frame and entirely dependent on local relationships, i.e. relativity.

Einstin did not change this and even believed in the aether himself.

You misunderstood Einstein, almost all of you did, and it's either because you are brainlets or there were people behind the scenes cloating physics to protect nasant development of rocket and later nuclear tech. I prefer the later explanation since I prefer not to believe so many people could be so stupid to actually accept MM at face value.

>>11686612
>Look, it even has this stupid "experiment" as an example
And your point, schizo?

>>11686612
>There is absolutely no experimental proof/confirmations of Einstein's Velocity-Composition law

I take it you definitely didn't go to college for physics huh

>>11686648
>Einstin did not change this and even believed in the aether himself.
>>>/x/

>>11682862
>aether
have you considered the confounding effects from Earth's phlogiston atmosphere in your calculationings?

>>11686669
meaning it didn't prove shit Neither did the null results of all the experiments after it.

>>11686683

>I take it you definitely didn't go to college for physics huh

And that has what to do with what I just said?

>>11683701
absolute fucking moron. the aether was a hypothesis. scientists thought light needed a medium to travel through because of its wave like properties. it was discovered not to need a medium by virtue of its wave-particle duality. the higgs field has absolutely fuck all to do with this, as its only there as a medium for the higgs boson to give particles mass via the transfer of energy in the field. the higgs field isnt a backpedal by all of science, it has nothing to do with a medium for photons at all you fucking retard. google is your friend.

>>11686612
>Descriptions cannot be "wrong".
You're telling me that it's not possible to describe the universe in a way that's wrong? Descriptions can be wrong. That's the whole point of science is that we can prove certain descriptions of the universe wrong, because they have falsifiable consequences.

>However when it comes to explaining what light is, why it acts the way it does, and how time can possible exist as something that does something, SR fails miserably.
What you're saying here is something like "SR fails at explaining things that SR was never designed to explain". You're not refuting it as an accurate description of how the universe appears to behave.

>There is absolutely no experimental proof/confirmations of Einstein's Velocity-Composition law, which is what people refer to when they repeat this meme post. It has to do with phase shift/EMR.
So what's your explanation for atomic clocks losing time exactly as much as Einstein's theories predicting they should? I'm assuming this is somehow an emergent feature of your theory, right?

And is there an answer for how aether explains the perihelion shift in the orbit of Mercury?

>>11683701
>Aether is still at Earth level because its dragged by the Earth. Its a fucking "fluid". They call it the Higgs Field now

im not even a physicist, but this is so wrong on a fundamental level. the 'aether' was an early model for how light could propagate in a way similar to sound. the higgs field is what gives mass to quarks and the different generations of leptons.

you literally don't know what you're talking about and you're just regurgitating terms that you don't understand. you're a fraud anon

>>11686627
>Newton was only wrong because he assumed that gravity effects were instantaneous. Einstein corrected this.

Common misconception. Laplace was the first to implement a finite propagation speed for gravity into Newton's theories. Einstein's theory of General relativity is still more accurate than Laplace's theory.

General relativity is the merging of special relativity and its Lorentzian transforms of spacetime with Newton's theory of gravity, it's more than just adding a finite propagation speed to gravity.

>Time diliation is literally only the delay in information traveling through the aether in electromagnetic waves. I get that you think there is more to it than that. There is not. There is no real time travel involved. It is simply an information delay. An illusion almost identical to doppler effect. Now, pop-sci and increasingly even educated people, they stoke the mystery and even mislead to keep the mystery alive. But there is no mystery here.

You realize that's really close to how time dilation already works in special relativity, right? Because light is assumed to move at a constant speed, it has a greater distance to travel to get around within moving bodies relative to stationary bodies, and so it effectively takes longer for light to move signals around in these moving bodies, which is perceived as time being slower.
Are you not saying the same thing with different language somehow?

>>11686891
You know, in a couple years I'm pretty sure Aether model will have changed so much that it will be pretty close to science. I guess that's a win win situation right

>>11687020
I mean, if the two manage to merge and there's something real that we can point to that acts like 'aether', then cool
I feel like a whole lot of this is just miscommunication and people who like the word aether a whole lot and people who don't. Also a bunch of different concepts all get lumped under the heading 'aether', adding to the confusion. It's a super loaded term.

>>11686837
>You're telling me that it's not possible to describe the universe in a way that's wrong?
Yep. Explaining it is a different story though.
>The sky is blue
>no the sky is red
Are both correct descriptions of the sky. Explaining why the sky expresses the phenomena that is causing conflicting descriptions "red" and "blue" requires more than just simple descriptions.

>What you're saying here is something like "SR fails at explaining things that SR was never designed to explain"
No what I'm saying is that it's a description, not an explanation.

>You're not refuting it as an accurate description of how the universe appears to behave.
I can't refute it because as I said it's a description. It's "not even wrong". It just doesn't explain how the universe actually works.

>>11687096
These are all models of the way reality behaves. None of them can purport to explain it any better, except by virtue of having a more accurate or more computationally feasible theory. You wouldn't be able to say that aether is real even if the theory did match reality. It would be just one way of modelling the results of the measurements we make on the universe, not the only way.

>>11687096
>Yep. Explaining it is a different story though.
The dominant wavelength of sky diffusion is 700nm. There, wrong description. Not sure if I'm getting your point

>>11687183
Exactly. This guy gets it. Saying "the substance commonly referred to as water is made of molecules consisting of three oxygens and two hydrogens" is also a wrong description of the world.

>>11685533
geocentric model: a gorillion epicycles that happen seemingly at random to explain retrograde motion of the planets

heliocentric model: retrograde motion explained by Earth overtaking the slower moving outer planets or being overtaken by the faster moving Mercury and Venus with none of those fucking epicycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfwwQnHO7uY

>>11687183
>The dominant wavelength of sky diffusion is 700nm. There, wrong description
No, it's just another description.

>>11687191
>Saying "the substance commonly referred to as water is made of molecules consisting of three oxygens and two hydrogens" is also a wrong description of the world.

No it's another description. Explaining why water is "three oxygens and two hydrogens" and why you described it as such will lead you to the real truth. Descriptions indeed cannot be wrong, however they also cannot be "right". That is what explanations are for.

>>11687308
At what point do descriptions give way to explanations? What would you consider an explanation as opposed to a description?

There's never a point at which you can't ask why again. Every so called explanation is just a description at a deeper level.

>>11682667
The experiment was clamped, now it's being used to clamp us. Big surprise.

>>11686747
>meaning it didn't prove shit
How is a null result not evidence against the hypothesis, schizo? Did you read your own source?

>>11686891
>You realize that's really close to how time dilation already works in special relativity, right?

Yes. Of course. Our mission is advancement of Humanity, full stop. Happiness, health, success FOREVER. And to be more specific, eternal life in accordance with Paul and Jesus Christ prophecy for us to make / transform into immortal bodies. By our calculation this will require a thought revolution.

The games of the past need to fall back. We don't want our families to die. Neither do you. The power here, right here on this board, on 4chan, is underutilized.

Let us live forever in happiness, health and success.

>>11687682
>>>/x/

>>11687421
Description: Accounts what something is, represented in words.
Explanation: Accounts why something is the way it is. Includes a justification for said interpretation.

>>11687600
>How is a null result not evidence against the hypothesis,
The result doesn't support the hypothesis.

>>11687692

You are a literally faggot. Not gay. A faggot. In the traditional sense. I think you know that. You are literally fucking worthless to humanity. Change that, faggot.

>>11687692

You could die and nothing whatsoever would change. This is what I mean when I call you a faggot. You are a BURDEN. True, your Fed is probably printing money for you at our inflationary cost... this will catch up to your blood eventually. I pray not during your worthless fucking lifetime, but maybe that of your maggoty spawn. Best for you to "get with the program"

>>11687692

And it's so simple. Just optimize. Or fall back for those who do. We will lift you up with us.

>>11687731
speak for yourself you assgot

>>11687735
oh look at you. You know "they" are recording and could pull this convo up later by IP or key stroke record if they need to. Faggot means burden. You faggot. You are a burden. I love gay people.

>>11687735

But we love you Anon. Even when you are confused. Worried. Depleted. Do not fear existance. Yes, this all is a "computation". Yes it is savage and horrific at times. Have faith. Evolution was like a well worn stone in a stream. The voice in you speaks well. You are one of us whether you realize that or not.

>>11686502
>If the aether is real how do you explain the successes of special relativity in explaining time dilation

Simple it is wrong lol
http://esotericawakening.com/spacetime-right-or-wrong

>>11687834

So, I actually read this yesterday. It is surprisingly close.

>>11686502
>Your GPS in your phone literally wouldn't work without the corrections provided by this math.

this has to be the most retard popsci responce...
satellites and cell phones work because of engineering, to put satellites in orbit engineers use clasical mechanics newton equations, to correct the clocks in GPS satellites engineers apply a correction (the data for the correction is taken from engineering data) this way the system will give his maximum precision...

all this doNOT requiere relativity so don't worry about about "satellites fallind from the sky" if relativity was an incorrect theory.... like a lot of non-literates think

"satellites fallind from the sky" I''m not lying thats some typical headline that pop magazines use then retards think that if it wasn't for relativity internet would not work... that's the level of stupidity

>>11687922
>satellites and cell phones work because of engineering, to put satellites in orbit engineers use clasical mechanics newton equations, to correct the clocks in GPS satellites engineers apply a correction (the data for the correction is taken from engineering data) this way the system will give his maximum precision...
>all this doNOT requiere relativity so don't worry about about "satellites fallind from the sky" if relativity was an incorrect theory.... like a lot of non-literates think
>"satellites fallind from the sky" I''m not lying thats some typical headline that pop magazines use then retards think that if it wasn't for relativity internet would not work... that's the level of stupidity

BASED AS FUCK

>>11687698
>The result doesn't support the hypothesis.
The result is against the hypothesis. Schizo.