/sci/ - Science & Math

First for deploying the USSF against the Space Wolves.

>>11676551
reminder
>Section 31 is the organic coding arm within the Kobayashi Maru program office that is responsible for standing up this coalition friendly network and development of the two applications that have been operationally accepted; Metroid and Starfox. Both tools are currently in use on the operations floor today and have set the tone for collaborative mission capability within the FVEY coalition.
https://www.spaceforce.mil/News/Article/2183258/kobayashi-maru-delivers-coalition-friendly-platform

>>11676551
things are getting hot now

>>11676551
at last a flag worth dying for
in minecraft

Would mars be used as an agricultural hub for the solar system? Or could stations maintain their own farms?

>>11676555
you can fit 1000 people into a Starship if the duration is only a few hours

>>11676559
And this software runs in the Space Operations Center, or SpOC.

>>11676557
Yo buddy, still alive?

>>11676580
that one isnt as special because the acronym is pretty straight forward regardless of trek. Calling your software Kobayashi Maru and your software team Section 31, is a direct reference

How close of a torch drive can you get with NTR or LANTR?

>>11676593
nope

>>11676572
At most Mars would supply colonies on its moons assuming they exist, nothing beyond that. Agricultural hubs don't make sense in interplanetary distances.

>>11676593
NTPRs are essentially just a doubling of efficiency over chemical rockets. They could never be thought of as torch drives. LANTRs are better, but I think about a tenth as efficient as any torch drive. NSWRs are better but also expel free flying nuclear waste if they're even slightly misadjusted. There's really no torch drive without a torch drive.

>>11676559
>>11676580
>>11676587

holy shit a bunch of nerds in the space force agency...i fucking love it.
but serious fuck you earthers...im fighting for MARS
MARS AETERNUM!

IN A FIELD
OUT OF SCRAPS

>>11676620
why did they attach a vuvuzela to Starship

>>11676620
Is...is that a fucking bolted on RCS rocket?

>>11676374
Kek no it's not. You have to click the category to see it. You are so deep in the closet only a falcon heavy could get you out lol
>it's almost always a male to 'female'
That's because FtMs pass really easily so no-one ever notices them and no-one cares about female sexuality anyway.
>>11676368
I hard Rosatom was developing a NTR, doubt they'd work with Space Force though.
>>11676506
I am hyped for the Titan drone mission. Would it still happen even if SLS flopped?

>>11676624
they needed roll control
so they built some

>>11676630
Giga based.
>Uh Elon we don't have roll control yet, this is going to take some more time.
>"Nah man it's cool just fucking slap another COPV and a valve on it and plug it into the flight computer."

>>11676634
it's not even "just another COPV" it's a fucking monster

>>11676551
Look at those smug motherfuckers

>>11676638
Oh yeah, based on the people standing bellow it that must be a 10-12 footer at least.

>>11676634
>>11676630
>>11676638
>>11676624
>>11676621
>>11676643
hmmmmmmmmmm

Look at this fucking grin. He's probably been waiting to do this his whole life.

>>11676617
All a 'torchship' is is high ISP without cripplingly low thrust. Orion and NSWR should be considered in the umbrella even if they're on the low end behind all the magical bullshit. NTR/LANTR is definitely too low ISP to be considered, though.

>>11676650
>high ISP
not just high, anon
astronomically high ISP
relativisticly high ISP

>>11676619
KILLING ME IS NOT WINNING. I KILLED YOUR ADMIRAL. YOUR IRON SHIELD IS DOWN. DEATH IS NO DISGRACE- MARS AETERNUM

>>11676620
I imagine some ULA agent at the edge of the complex with a pair of binoculars and a camera feeding back to ULA HQ with a bunch of scientists gathered around the screen desperately trying to decipher how each SN iteration is going to work..

>>11676620
H O P
O
P

W H E N ?
H
E
N
?

>>11676572
Every colony anywhere will grow its own food. Otherwise you're shipping food one way and shipping shit back the other way. Everything needs to be recycled regardless, so why bother adding transport costs on top of that?

>>11676659
please anon
their names are Alex and Mary

>>11676644
toot

I'm sorry to say this, but your dreams of colonising space are simply pipe dreams if we have to rely on newtons third law and blowing up dino fossil juice to go from a to b. It takes too damn long and it's too damn slow. It's too unreliable and risky. You need to hope that things like the Tic-Tac and Black triangle UFO's are actually real, and based on back engineered Ayyyylmao tech. Otherwise consider your dreams over.

>>11676669
>I'm sorry to say this, but your dreams of colonising space are simply pipe dreams if we have to rely on newtons third law and blowing up dino fossil juice to go from a to b

Wrong

> It takes too damn long

No it doesn’t. 6-9 months is tolerable.

> and it's too damn slow.

No it isn’t.

> It's too unreliable and risky.

No it isn’t.

> Otherwise consider your dreams over.

Stick your head in a Raptor engine’s exhaust lol

>>11676644
>Yeah that looks about right
>It's hop-ready, boys
Imagine the janky nonsense that's going to get slapped together on the moon, where it'll never need to deal with the stresses of earth launch or even atmosphere. Moon junkers on compressed-gas hop rockets they welded together out of derelict scraps, wearing space suits that are half slap-patch by weight.

>>11676669
wrong, blowing up cow farts works too
your ADHD addled brain cannot understand an endeavor lasting longer than a few days

>>11676677
>>11676679
It's over bros. It's over.

>>11676685
IT HASN'T EVEN BEGUN, FOOL

>>11676685
Kys

>>11676649
>his smile and optimism: enhanced

>>11676649
What’s this from

>>11676593
Torch drive is when you have a propulsion system with the efficiency of a nuclear fusion propulsion unit with the thrust to weight ratio of a chemical rocket (~100 to 1).

Torch drive lets you build spacecraft that launch off of Earth and go to Neptune in a single burn, saying "fuck you" to orbital mechanics and gravity and just speeding up for two weeks at 1g, then flipping midway and decelerating at 1g until arrival, with a peak velocity a significant percent of light speed. To give you an idea of how insane that is, the Orion nuclear pulse propulsion system barely qualifies as a rather shit-tier torch drive. A different design that could be seen as a torch drive would be the nuclear salt water rocket, which rides a sustained nuclear detonation, however this would have a lot of thermal management problems unless you quench the structure with a high mass flow rate of liquid water, which means the actual specific impulse of the engine drops considerably and falls out of torch-drive territory.

No kind of nuclear thermal engine is going to get anywhere NEAR torch-drive capability. It isn't possible. Torch drives themselves may not even be possible. The heat flux that comes with a nuclear reaction unleashing that much radiation are very large. If you rely on a big enough radiator array to handle that much heat, you'd add so much mass that you no longer have a torch drive anymore.

>>11676692
OP picture

>>11676627
>Would it still happen even if SLS flopped?
Yes

> The USS Kardashian
> Year: 2120
> Location: Deep Space, approaching a mysterious planetoid
> The two young space marines prepare to deploy
> As they walk towards the drop ship they pass photos depicting the glorious history of the Space Force
> And Donald Trump

>>11676694
We’ll figure it out eventually.

>>11676644
>Here's your RCS bro

>>11676669
none of this is the real issue. the real problem is that deep space isn't profitable and has no military value.

>>11676700
Does anyone have the close up of that Sergeants rank badge they were showing off.

>>11676707
>>11676669
Yea but we don't want to stay in the trees let alone the ocean.

>>11676707
>none of this is the real issue. the real problem is that deep space isn't profitable

Elon Musk doesn’t care.

> and has no military value.

Meaningless. Anywhere there’s people has military value.

>>11676664
What kind of shit would need to be transported and delivered interplanetary distances in a space faring society?

>>11676714
thats because musk is full of shit

>>11676707

>>11676617
>>11676694
Can you pull off a brachistochrone with a NSWR?

11676707
>drops a colony on you
what has military value now motherfucker

>>11676644
>the future is dieselpunk

noice

>>11676572
Hydroponics&invitro meat.
Will taste like shit but it will sustain the low G subhuman jellybaby's.

>>11676711

>>11676731
just build a rotating angled habitat on the surface of mars to pump the felt gravity upto roughly earth levels and have pregnant women live there, ez.

>>11676729
rail lost a lot of soul now that diesel is gone

>>11676736
Thanks

Seriously, this is the guy you need to milk for information. He's the one that told Tom Delonge (confirmed by wikileaks) that an Ayyylmao craft crashed at Roswell and they retrieved it, sending it to Wright-Patterson. The place he was in charge of until very recently.

>>11676707
Surely an adequately weaponed off-earth colony is the ultimate second strike capability?

>>11676551
It looks like embarrassing an embarrassing mashup of NASA and Star Trek, as if some 12 year old made it.

>>11676771
hello yes I assume this is your first time interacting with the US military?

>>11676771
Show us a mock up of your preferred flag

>>11676720
>What kind of shit would need to be transported and delivered interplanetary distances in a space faring society?
If you're shipping food out to colonies, you need to ship the LITERAL HUMAN SHIT back to wherever the food was grown, because otherwise that farm is gonna deplete their nutrient resources.

any JoeyB patrons gonna hook us up with that stream link for the launch tomorrow?

>>11676644
>just stick it on, yup that'll do
fuck me, it's beautiful

>>11676654
NSWR totally qualifies. Exhaust velocity is .05c and exhaust flow is more than 1kg/s. It's just horrifically dirty and uses a lot of scarce elements: uranium, boron, lithium.

>>11676707
See OP image.

>>11676800
>carefully designed thrust plate to distribute loads across the skin
>four plasma cuts, a stamp, and welded on by mexicans in a field

>>11676800
Meanwhile the SLS thrust structure is so carefully considered and designed that figuring out where it cracked took over a month of FEA analysis despite having the broken article to look at.

>>11676731
Not just hydroponics. You can use a big honking tank of saltwater as a farm and air recycler. People today are working out how to farm kelp and shellfish sustainably. Add in some squid and muck eating fish (sturgeon, tilapia, etc.) and you've got some good eating. Kelp is something like 10x as efficient as land plants at filtering CO2.

>>11676678

>>11676760
of course but it's now illegal.
>>11676803
space force is leo
>>11676800
why is a cowboy job "beautiful"?

>>11676753
hold the fuck up

was /x/ right?

>>11676831
no because ironically /x/ hates ufos. too plausible for them.

>>11676829
>why is a cowboy job "beautiful"?
Because for years aerospace engineering has been slowed down by perfectionists who demand the absolute best quality while being ignorant to the fact that the mentality is making space flight more difficult.

>>11676839
>who demand the absolute best quality
and were optimizing for the wrong things

>>11676839
imagine defending a shit weld

>>11676829
because it's in the same league as when folks turned Ford Model A's into junky tractors

>>11676829
>why is a cowboy job "beautiful"?
Because it gets shit done instead of wasting 10 years of committees, congress/senate hearings, funding overruns and delays.
It's just "Whatever, we'll fucking try this, if it works, great. We'll polish it up for the finished version instead of polishing it up for the fucking test".

>>11676850
the welds look fine
the thrust structure for that thruster looks a bit heavy, but was very simple to machine

>>11676844
Yep, see previous thread's rants about hydrolox ground-lighting stages being the biggest gay. Methalox and steel is cheaper, better, and ultimately lighter in terms of vehicle mass for a given payload+orbit.

>>11676850
ULAIDF pls go

>>11676831
/x/ doesn't like UFOs, think they're a psyop. They only believe in ghosts and succubuses.

>>11676835
>too plausible for them.
Kek, havent been on /x/ for years now, are they even more delusional now?

Alright is this thing really going to fly with this many engines clustered so close together? It gives me N1 vibes. I feel like it's hard to overcompensate for overheating or engine shutdown. I expect to see changes before the first flight. Or do you think this will be the final design...?

>>11676878
think they brought it down to 31

>>11676890
but also upgraded the thrust so it will end up being more powerful

>>11676701
No guarantees in technology. Ever. Do not count on torch drives becoming reality; instead do everything you can with what you already have. Chemical propulsion alone lets us colonize Moon and Mars, no problem.

>starships cant hop because of heavy thunderstorms expected for the next few days
at least we can expect launches from florida...

>>11676727
Not really, at best you could get away with a burn time of a few hours, because with NSWR you're limited by how much coolant mass you can push. The coolant doubles as propellant but nonetheless out-masses the actual fuel salt water by at least a thousand to one. This basically means that you can divide the theoretical zero-coolant Isp of a NSWR by 1001 and get the true, practical Isp.

>>11676916
soliton highways when?

Would it be feasible to secretly create a fleet of warships on Phobos and send them off to Earth to then demand the surrender and control of all nations under one rule less they get wiped via casaba howitzers?

>>11676896
Same power; the inner engines are still the gimbaling, throttling, 200 ton thrust types, while the outer engines give up gimbal and throttle to push 250 tons. This design should be lighter, though, so it'll give the launch vehicle slightly better overall performance; ten tons off of the booster would only give about one ton more payload to orbit, all things being equal.

>>11676878
>Alright is this thing really going to fly with this many engines clustered so close together?
Yes, minus the outermost 6, because since this design was put out they have increased the thrust of each engine and don't need so many.

>It gives me N1 vibes.
N1 was a victim of circumstance, there's no issue with clustering so many engines, the issues with that program came from the inability to test on the ground and the decision to attempt to save time by using a literal "launch, fail, fix, launch" strategy. The first few N1 flights were doomed to fail, it was by design, in order to find the problems that they didn't have the time to crunch numbers to solve.

>engine overheat
Since they're cooled regeneratively along the entire nozzle, there are no overheating issues. You could pack any arbitrarily large number of Raptors together and it wouldn't make a difference.

>Or do you think this will be the final design...?
No, it's already changed, there will be 31 engines and those fin-legs at the base are being abandoned for much smaller, lighter legs instead.

How would one create a fusion powered SSTO without irradiating everyone?

>>11676923
Explain

>>11676930
Just create them on Mars, it's not like it's hard to launch them.

>>11676931
Nope, Elon said Raptor will be more powerful recently, as in the newest ones they're building have a significant thrust upgrade over the earlier design. You're right that the future Raptor variants will include one that achieves >2500 kN of thrust, though.

>>11676939
>Explain
He's probably referring to the combination of the PROCSIMA research with interstellar beamed-power highways. Pic/link related.

https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2018_Phase_I_Phase_II/PROCSIMA/

>>11676936
Step one, invent a fusion reaction that produces no neutron radiation and no gamma/xray radiation.

Step two, give up because step one is impossible.

>>11676945
Would probably work fine but isn't a torch ship, since it's being powered externally. Also not that useful for anything smaller scale than interstellar travel, due to the acceleration times to achieve significant fractions of c with a macroscopic spacecraft.

>>11676878
No, Elon quote says it's back down to 31 engines, which means those six that stick out underneath the fins won't be on there

>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-15/musk-s-spacex-faces-union-opposition-to-california-job-funding

California unions hate Elon Musk lmao that they denied union employee training funding request for SpaceX.

Is there any money to be made by establishing colonies on Mars? Mining? Manufacturing? Growing shit? What the fuck can you do on Mars that you can’t back on Earth?

>>11676959
There's money to be made anywhere there are people who need and produce goods and services. The idea of creating permanent colonies is to create entirely new worlds worth, with unique opportunities for goods and services due to not being on Earth.

>>11676957
Based, unions in general are a good idea but American unions are by-and-large trash, almost to the point of just being legalized racketeering. Especially commiefornian ones.

>>11676951
Even if you only get to 1% c that's plenty for in system, so there goes 90% of your delta V requirement.

>>11676551
he looks so genuinely happy.

Pence with Space Force flag. Looks like the chevron is actually metallic instead of flat gray.

>>11676957
Fuck unions. Unions should only exist as an ad hoc organization when shit is actually bad for the workers. When shit is fixed or resolved, then the Union should resolve along with it. Allowing these massive conglomerate entities have tremendous political and financial power to exist for literally no reason is pure retardation. Fuck the commies.

>>11676972
This, a union made up of a certain arbitrary percent (say 20%) of a location's workers should be able to get recognition from the state and federal governments to unionize for some specific purpose, like "we want to negotiate with the boss for a raise" or "working conditions suck and safeties are insufficient" or "the company is giving us trash PPE and people are getting injured". Once the specific matter is resolved the union's certificate of recognition expires and they'll have to form a new union to solve a new problem.

>>11676933
Thank you. That's really interesting. The N1 is just such a strange beast- I never assumed the issue was their F-35 approach to "build it fix it". Also never thought it was possible to cluster engines so close but I guess you can do anything as long as you know all of the factors involved and test test test

>>11676957
>Unions controlling State Employment Training program
How the fuck?

>>11676959
Nuke Mars

https://twitter.com/KerbalSpaceP/status/1261285201667403776

>>11676966
1% c would take months to reach, anon. By that time you're already far outside the solar system. Not useful for going planet to planet.

>>11677026
What kinda thrust are you dealing with?

>>11677000
Unions are poison

>>11676627
>FtMs pass really easily
They look like Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff with smaller heads wtf are you talking about

>>11676957
inb4 he permanently moves everything to Texas

>>11677076
yeah but unless you look closely it's hard to tell them apart from regular manlets

>>11677000
Telling ya Anon, American unions are fucking cancer.

>>11676971

>>11677059
With a particle beam-coupled laser accelerator, you're looking at small accelerations of spacecraft with any more substance to them than a sheet of aluminum foil.

>>11677079
I'm almost 100% certain that's the plan, if he needed California for anything he would have tried to play some kind of diplomatic game with them to negotiate a better position for his company and workers. If I were him the only reason I'd be so flagrantly uncaring is if I was already planning to fuck off anyways.

>>11677098
Test tonight?

>>11677087
>He doesn't use a LANTR engine with a couple million kilograms of H2O as remass to get from Earth to Mars in a week
NGMI

>>11677104
idk, that's an old view that just looked nice

>>11676707
People and countries will pay to move shit into space. There. It‘s profitable.
Eventually deep space industry will also be massive for the solar system economy as anything mined in a shallower gravity well is immediately more useful. This of course won‘t help earth economy. But it‘ll boost solar system economy tremendously.

>>11677138
>This of course won‘t help earth economy.
The first company to sell off-planet data backup services is going to make so much fucking money.

Has anyone ever thought of storing Hydrogen as a metal hydride for propellant/remass?

>>11676585
>starfox team fighting mentally ill cornerians
I'd love to see that be a game.

>>11677109
Can you go back and read the thread chain please? We've been discussing methods of fast interplanetary travel. I know about nuclear thermal engines, they're fine. They aren't torch drives, though. No realistic design exists for a torch drive propulsion system.

Also, your LANTR engine is going to give you a starting acceleration of a whopping 0.1 m/s per second, and go through that liquid water propellant in less than an hour, and with a specific impulse of ~650 optimistically, you're only gonna be getting up to around 7 km/s cruising speed (if you're also braking at arrival propulsively).

If you wanna check those numbers, stage Isp of 650 mass ratio of 90% propellant gives you total delta V of 14.67 km/s. If you were using methane at ~1100 Isp in a gas core engine you'd get 24.84 km/s, much better, but you need tanks roughly twice as big, so that hurts your mass ratio a bit. If you use hydrogen at ~2000 Isp you'd have 45.1 km/s total, very good, but good fucking luck getting a 90% propellant mass ratio with hydrogen. A still optimistic but more reasonable mass ratio of 80% would give you 31.56 km/s, still an improvement over methane LANTR but not by so much as to be a hands down winner.

>>11677158
Also off planet server hosting for shit that keeps getting nuked from the net.

Come on you ayy bastards give us some antimatter rockets so we kill eachother and end this fucking nightmare.
Also, on that topic, would an antimatter powered rocket need radiators,and if yes, is it even possible to radiate that much power?

>>11677191
>don't like getting banned? then go make your own racist sexist platforms haha
>no wait I didn't mean like-

Another 60 Starlinks launching this Sunday

>>11677159
The lightest option would be lithium hydride, and unless you're burning it with fluorine you're wasting your time. Metal sponge and metal-hydrogen compounds add far too much mass to be worth it.

Just to give you some numbers;

H2 has a molar mass of ~2. Very close to a 1:1 molar mass to hydrogen atom ratio.
LiH has a molar mass of ~7.95, and has half as many hydrogen atoms. Almost 8:1 AMU to H ratio, bad.
BeH2 has a molar mass of ~11.03. Ratio is ~ 5.5:1.
BH3 has a molar mass of 13.83. Ratio is ~4.61:1.
CH4 has a molar mass of ~16, and with 4 hydrogen atoms has the best molar mass to hydrogen ratio besides straight up hydrogen, at 4.

You'll notice that the second best storage molecule for hydrogen is actually just methane, and methane is already going to be used as a propellant for several upcoming rockets. There's no point to going any further because while the atomic mass of every other candidate goes up, the number of bonds they can form actually drops until you wrap all the way back around to silicon, and silane has a ratio of ~8:1, worse than lithium.

>>11676644
>SN4 "Pidgeon" Place-Anywhere RCS Port
>by Elon's Junkyard and Parts
>Cost: 25 funds
>Research: advanced flight control
>Moved your rocket out to the test pad but forgot to add roll control? Not to worry! Just slap on a bunch of these bad boys and it's just like they were on the blueprints after all!
>*mounting bracket sold separately

>>11677228
Raptor uses methalox and has already hopped.

>>11677199
>would an antimatter powered rocket need radiators
Yes, you're going to have ultra high energy gamma rays irradiating the insides of your engine and the shield you put between it and yourself.
The only time you wouldn't need a radiator is if you were dumping sufficient propellant mass through the engine that you could loop it around a regenerative cooling system, at which point your thrust would increase but your specific impulse would decrease dramatically, very good for short bursts of acceleration but bad for long haul high delta V maneuvers.

>is it even possible to radiate that much power?
Yes, you simply need a very big radiator. You'd also dial the reaction rate for your cooling capacity; when running in high gear with the additional propellant/coolant, you'd ramp up the annihilation reaction rate, and vice versa. For the highest specific impulse you'd use minimal propellant, zero coolant, and run the reaction rate very slowly so that your radiators can handle all the thermal flux.

>>11677237
Yes, I know. It's also true that up and coming rockets (Vulcan, New Glenn, and Starship) will be using methalox, as well as maybe some European vehicles but fuckem they're too slow. Actually fuck everything but Starship.

>>11677238
>>11677199
If you can build a mirror capable of reflecting gamma rays you can just have the annihilation reaction occur outside the ship and make a photon rocket from hell.

>>11677238
Why not just put blade-shields? Though i don't know which material is capable of enduring that much power, Tungsten should be good for a couple terrawats though.

>>11677242
>If you can build a mirror capable of reflecting gamma rays
A very very difficult thing to do, mind. You'd need something roughly as dense as an atomic nucleus. Neutronium foil antimatter reaction chambers when?

>>11677228
>unless you're burning it with fluorine you're wasting your time
What about an NTR or fusion rocket?

>>11677242
I mean sure, but then we're kind of moving into the realm of magic miracle materials

>>11677230

>>11677253
So is creating antimatter in usable amounts as spaceship fuel. I'm pretty sure humanity's total production to date is less than a gram.

>>11677243
>Why not just put blade-shields?
They still get super hot, anon. Same heat problem applies. Actually I was thinking of blade shields as a baseline, because a traditional shadow shield would pretty much immediately overheat and start vaporizing due to its low thermal emission rate due to having a small surface area for its volume.

>Tungsten should be good for a couple terrawats though
You're basically giving dimensionless units here. A terawatt of thermal power into a kilogram block of tungsten is going to kill it instantly, a terawatt of thermal power into a kilogram of thousand atom thick tungsten foil will cause it to glow cherry red because it'd have the surface area necessary to radiate heat at the same rate.
You could build everything out of aluminum if you wanted, not that I'd advise that. You'd probably want to pick a metal like niobium for your radiator fins, and use a molten metal as your heat transport fluid. Circulate that liquid fast enough to keep the engine bits cold enough to stay solid, use a big enough radiator surface area to keep up with heat production, and you're good.

>>11677246
>99.6% of our ship mass is the lining of our engine

>>11677247
Same physics applies, you're just less constrained by chemistry (fluorine remass in your LANTR is a bad idea). The propellants you're gonna want will always be hydrogen, water, methane. If and when we ever get to mining gasses from giant planets, you can add helium to that list, since it'd be superabundant similar to hydrogen, lighter than anything except hydrogen, and the most chemically friendly fluid that exists (it's not going to react with anything even under thousands of atmospheres of pressure at thousands of degrees).

All of the substances I listed have two things in common; they have decently low molecular masses, and they're hyper abundant in the universe, except maybe methane but that's easy to make and carbon is certainly common enough to rely on. Low molecular mass means higher Isp, which is what you're optimizing for if you're using nuclear thermal or fusion engines anyway. Abundance means you're not going to be constrained in terms of which bodies will carry the specific elements yo need to support your transport vehicles.

Basically, not only does nothing else perform as well as the fluids described above, nothing else will ever be as cheap or convenient anyway.

>>11677273
Not necessarily, the foil could easily be a thousand times thinner than the diameter of a hydrogen atom and still catch and reflect ~100% of the gamma rays. It would be like compressing a 1 meter square plate of aluminum metal from one centimeter thick down to that aforementioned extremely small thickness; still weighs a few kilograms in total, but you wouldn't know it was there looking at it edge-on.

>>11677138
it'll help earth as a derivative.
just like space helped push computers and material science.
We will have a bunch of high IQ ph'd mofo in mars, who knows what they will invent up there but whatever is it, it will be a bounty for earth.

>>11677298
Hm, you'd have to armor such a material extremely well, to the point where it would be practically impossible for debris to collide with that hyper-thin film. If it ever tore then gamma from your drive would instantly shine straight through the ship, if the rip was in a bad position pointing at the rest of the hull it would slag the whole ship.

>>11677298
Now we would just need to figure out how to make it not explode when outside of a neutron star

>>11677311
Solving problems for space solves problems on earth too.

When will we have zero point energy based propulsion so that we can finally lebensraum the AYY's?

>>11677328
thats what im saying

>>11677313
That nuclear foil would be a million times stronger than any normal material of the same mass per unit area. Strong force STRONK.

>>11677317
Yes, this is the problem.

>>11677339
USS Helen Keller?

>>11677339
Is this supposed to be a serious "leak", or some fictional concept?

>>11677230
quality post

With cheap super heavy launchers coming up, do you think there would be better probes for the atmospheres of the gas giants?

>>11677353
As far as the solar warden shit goes? ahhhhhh.....But as far as the air force looking into quantum field propulsion systems since the 80s and 90s.....Shit has potential spooky to them. Highly unlikey that anything came of it, but still, what's more likely?
>glowing flying orbs being captured on footage by Navy pilots are interstellar AYY's?
>glowing flying orbs being captured on footage by Navy pilots are weather phenomenon?
>glowing flying orbs being captured on footage by Navy pilots are secret government programs and black projects?

>>11677353
obviously fiction
>>11677369
fuck off retard

>>11676620
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mR-gz9EFO8

>>11677375
>obviously fiction
With some /x/ tier stuff, it's hard to tell.

>>11677353
The Solar Warden concept comes from a leak that is apparently legit, but I'm guessing it was some kind of disinfo. (Think Seal Team "6")

where's starship's radiator gonna be? it it like the LSM where it's part of the fuselage?

>>11677382
Nah

>>11677397
Where they're going they don't need radiators

>>11677389
>"Hey guys, let's shitpost on our believed to be secure network that only we can access, just in case."
/x/ to doubt

>>11676971
>metallic grey
That matches the sashes that the Air Force academy cadets were wearing. I guess their official colors are black and silver?

>>11677420
>>"Hey guys, let's shitpost on our believed to be secure network that only we can access, just in case."
Given that the Space Force has programs named Metroid, Starfox, Section 31, and Kobayashi Maru I'm willing to believe there's all kinds of RFC 1149 style shitposts on internal networks like that.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149

>>11677389
>>11677420
If Boeing and literally any other aerospace company worked on ships that used contragravitic forces to fly, you bet your ass they would figure out how it works and all their aircraft and rockets would be using it
They've got enough congressmen in their pocket to do that

>>11677431
>I guess their official colors are black and silver?
My inner Imperial approves.

>>11677438
>Given that the Space Force has programs named Metroid, Starfox, Section 31, and Kobayashi Maru

Fucking cringe, did reddit join the space force or what?

>>11677463
Military IT is full of massive nerds, Air Force (and now Space Force) in particular.

>>11676669
>devil trips
Also fuck off anon, you have NO CLUE what you're talking about.

>>11677463
Being a bitter blackpill chomper that hates everything and calls anything fun
>cringe
and
>reddit
is the kind of intellectual masturbation you see from people proudly proclaiming that they're an atheist, but rather than jerking off your ego, you're spending your time hating everyone and everything.

>>11677188
how about ammonia

>>11677482
Absolute reddit post, go back. Making fun of objectively cringe shit (i.e. Inserting shitty pop culture references for le epic meme into a serious military program) is a normal and healthy reaction.

>>11677463
It's just people having fun. who the fuck cares lol. It's funny.

>>11677482
Pic related, me

>>11677495
>serious military program
>space force
Let the satellite cowboys have their fun.
We get cool names like Inherent Resolve for things where actual lives are on the line. Stop being a holier than thou faggot.

>>11677495
Look at this normie tier faggot who thinks nerd shit doesn't belong on 4chan.

>>11677500
Yes, I'm sure the person posting about rocketships on 4chan on Friday night is a gigachad.

>>11677528
Yes.

>>11676959
any open land that is uninhabited is generally profitable. this could easily become a habitat for farming for example.

>>11677488
Doesn't really have any advantages, is more rare than the other substances on the list so you'd have to make it pretty much guaranteed, basically a more expensive and worse option.

>mention my interest in space technology ot friend
>he suggests I go to reddit
>"eh, i guess i could give it a shot"
>first thing i see-https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/gkhuc9/star_trek_not_star_wars_nasa_releases_basic/
>pop culture regurgitation
>snide bullshit
>open naked hate of the USA and implications that a set of accords that makes annexing the moon illegal and sets up common sense rules about resource harvesting and safety zones is somehow the US doing the opposite
>comparisons to the colonization of America
>psuedocommie bullshit

oh god this place is awful, who the fuck would ever go here? it makes this shithole look like paradise

>>11677654
Every part of that site is either like that or a porn board.

>>11677654
The popular subreddits attract some poor characters. It's really only good when bringing news or discussing niche hobbies. The political related ones are cancer.

>>11676720
Microchips
Turbomachinery and rocket nozzles until it can be printed
Batteries
Robots
People

>>11677654
/r/spacexlounge is the only valuable subreddit, and even then it's only because they concentrate new developments about SpaceX activities there

>>11676720
Fissile material if we don't get fusion figured out.

>>11677654
>r/space
Cancer since it's mostly a board filled with uninformed teenagers.
>r/SpaceX
High quality threads but often gets news late because new threads are only approved every once in awhile.
>r/SpaceXLounge
It's okay since they get new info fast but the open posting rule means that junk comes along with it.
>r/Starlink
Okay like SpaceXLounge, only with fewer people.

>>11676959
Mars is ideal for building and launching a mining operation in the belt, far better than earth is.

>>11677709
huh, that is much less cancerous, thanks.

The best forum is still NSF.

>>11676907
>No guarantees in technology. Ever

Okay doomer

>>11677674
>The popular subreddits attract some poor characters

4Chan is just as bad if not worse. /b/ has shit tons of actual pedophiles

>>11677730
No guarantees does not mean doomer. It means go-getter.

>>11677709
>r/spacelaunchsystem
Bans people for stating facts about delays related to SLS. Bans people for saying anything negative about SLS. Bans people for saying anything positive about SpaceX.

Its a fucking safespace for oldspace

>>11677726
>pay to read news
kek

>>11677693
>Turbomachinery and rocket nozzles

would they waste going to mars without printing a 3d printer
in anycase where gets built on the mars will have to get tested on the moon first.

>>11677760
>oldspace has a reddit hugbox
>elon shitposts under his real name and gives technical interviews with youtubers
4chan vs. Reddit really is the cultural fault line of the 21st century.

>>11677760
>Bans people for stating facts about delays related to SLS.
Did they? I mean, they left the OIG related threads up.

>>11677774
They banned someone publicly recently and probably deleted/removed bunch others comments. They have a quarantine thread where all the negative news/comments are lumped together so people won't talk about it or discuss.

>>11677230

>>11677779
>They banned someone publicly recently and probably deleted/removed bunch others comments.
Link?

israel is overall the best country in the world nowadays uwu
you might not like it but it’s the truth, we would have absolutely zero space exploration were it not by israel

>>11677795
The actual thread was deleted I think but you can see the very recent sticky on mods trying to defend their ban and the regulars there trying to justify the ban of SLS critics. There is a reason why they don't like Eric Berger's articles over there. He's been consistently right about SLS delays and cost over runs throughout the years and they have considered banning arstechnica as well.

shit bait

>>11677846
Report and ignore. Killed the flat earthers like twenty threads ago.

>>11677848
where is the flat earth post? I assumed he was talking about the israeli post?

>>11677848
ahh it’s precisely them I was trying to trigger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNdMC6_eUGk

>>11677844
Even if Berger is right, Ars is increasingly slanted, becoming a leftwing rag. I wouldn't be surprised to them to become filtered more and more.

>California denied state support to SpaceX because of Tesla
What do we think of SpaceX moving to Texas?

>>11677893
Extremely based.

>>11677893
>inb4 SpaceX breaks off from the US and moves its headquarters to Phobos starting the proud city of Fuccali

>>11677893
what a petty thing to do

>>11677893
I welcome the move, I don't however welcome the people.

>>11677893
“In my opinion, given the recent threats of the CEO to leave the state of California, and everything else we’ve discussed today, this proposal does not rise to the level for me to feel secure in supporting it,” said Gretchen Newsom, a panel member and the political director of an IBEW electrical workers union local."

Kek, the suicidal hubris of California. They're not even trying to hide that it was a punitive decision.

>>11677874
relevant for Starship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqSqmoMaZMQ

>>11677913
lol her twitter account is full of hate for elon

>>11677907
California deserves nothing more.

>>11677909
Truth.

>>11677929
I was just reading that. This whole situation is fucking crazy since she is also the political director for the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers yet they still let her on the Employment Training Panel. That is such a conflict of interest, of course she doesn't want to give funding to non-union SpaceX employees.

>>11677773
Tory Bruno shitposts on r/SpacexMasterrace.

>>11677893
This makes them look bad when SpaceX will launch American to space in few days.

>>11677874
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH8lvwXx_Y8

>>11677913
>Gretchen Newsom
Any relation to Gavin?

>>11677968
Nothing more American than fucking over commies

>>11677989
She studied abroad in China. I wonder why she might want to hurt SpaceX.

>>11677989
Not to my knowledge but she is a close friend of Lorena Gonzalez, the assemblywoman that tweeted "fuck Elon Musk". Looking at the other panel members, some of them are also active unionists, what corruption.

>>11676557
This

I wanna get involved in space

>>11677289
the good thermal mass propellants are hydrogen, helium, methane, and ammonia

>>11678003
how have billionaires not destroyed these people

There's nothing wrong with unions in general. We could use more of them.

>>11678011
american unions arent the same as european unions. The american unions are typically gate ways for mob operation.
but im typically iffy on unions. I come from a country where unions are typically political tools to be wielded.

>>11677638
well it doesn't have any chance of decomposing and leaving a layer of carbon soot, and has comparable density
>>11677770
it's "pay to read exclusive insider space news from the horse's mouth"
and without that huge kerfluffle that happened when some spacex insider posted here about Elon throwing a fit
>>11678007
don't forget about water and carbon dioxide

>>11676551
>you are living through the creation of the United States Space Force
>MMXIX

>>11678011
I have no issue with smaller unions that are only made up employees who work for the company the union serves, but larger industry wide unions have become parasitic organizations that exist to funnel money back to union leaders while they do effectively nothing to improve workplace conditions.

I once had a job stocking shelves overnight at a grocery store for minimum wage and I was forced to spend around a thousand dollars to join the union there. The only time I saw anyone from the union was when they brought in a new quota based system to aid in shelving productivity that would have us working like dogs trying to keep up with it. The union didn't even try to fight it and they acted offended when I mentioned that we would be working twice as hard for the same amount of pay.

>>11677907
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOW DARE YOU REJECT OUR COMMIE POLICIES

I was reading up on the "Q Drive" that would have converted solar wind into energy to expel propellant. They mentioned using another Plasma Magnet for moving outward from the sun, and that steering with one "Q Drive" was a challenge, so I immediately thought of a better layout: plasma magnet in the front center, Q drive spines to the side. If you ignore the fact that the nacelle struts should each be about 10km long, this starts looking kind of familiar...

https://web.archive.org/web/20190308124000/https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2017/12/29/the-plasma-magnet-drive-a-simple-cheap-drive-for-the-solar-system-and-beyond/
https://tauzero.aero/a-reaction-drive/

>>11677528
In quarantine? Yes

>>11678005
same buddy, if it's your life's passion you can do it

>>11678075

What kind of mass flow rate would you need for something like an NTR or LANTR to avoid needing fuck huge radiators?

>>11676620
Theoretical physics fag here, please enlighten me what that is.

>>11678167
cold gas thruster for roll control

>>11678166
That depends on your radiation source and your propellant choice. You just have to balance your heat transfer capability budgets with each other.

Man Elon is able to use his experience with optimizing the manufacturing of cars and pretty soon we're going to be seeing assembly lines of Starships and that's fucking wack

>>11676620
THE VOID SHALL BE OURS TO TAKE

>>11676678
>Moon junkers on compressed-gas hop rockets they welded together out of derelict scraps, wearing space suits that are half slap-patch by weight.
Imagine the lunar junkyard derby races.

>>11676663
HOP IS ON MAY 18, if the static fire succeeds today

>>11678254
They're going to be hopping just before the Demo-2 mission? I'm completely okay with this but I can already see the Verge, Buzzfeed, and LA Times articles ragging on SpaceX if SN4 explodes, trying to associate it with Crew Dragon.

>>11676989
That would lead to a company having like 4 unions at once.

>>11678265
It'll be fine, didn't you see the advanced new roll control system they added?

Starlink ground station

>>11677230
>Found by the side of the taco truck

>>11678254
Based SpaceX spy.

>>11678265
I‘m getting so tired of this nonsense.

>>11678265
_ M _
L A D
_ D _

>>11678298
cute

>>11678340
Redact your local "journalist"

>>11676551
rockets.

>>11678455
>4chan logo on the patch

we did it guys

>>11678075
AAAAAAAAA

>>11678254
i'm giddy just thinking about it. 150m height?

>>11678265
All this time I been tellin y'all they don't give a fuck. Bad press only makes Elon more powerful.

>>11678494
Killing 2 astronauts in a week would do it.

>>11678503
>D2 failing having absolutely anything to do with blowing up a tin can in Texas
Stop repeating this

>>11678506
>blowing up a tin can
It will hop and it will hop well.
And the crowd will go wild.

>>11678521
Putting it in the context of the "concerns" espoused by these gutless fucks. I don't have any particular doubts that the tests will go well, but it could blow up and it wouldn't even be a hitch in the Starship program, let alone anything else.

Is solar wind somehow harvestable? Since it has mass couldn't we have orbital scoops collecting it? Doesn't matter how much they cost it's free delta v

>>11678547
>it's free delta v
A sail is free delta v, a harvester isn't anything on its own
>Doesn't matter how much they cost
To be a useful source of something you have to be competitive.

>hurricane Arthur has formed off the coast of florida
They better launch asap.

USSF-7 is about to launch aboard an ATLAS V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWc1DHxWfs

Waiting for this to pay a visit.

>>11678298
Where Grimes's reptillian babies hatch

Might just be another cold fusion event but Space Warp Dynamics is claiming they are able to create micro warp bubbles using tripole antenna. They've recently scrubbed most media as they have a big announcement coming end of July but you can see a summary here:

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/html-3/space_warp_dynamics.htm

>>11678583
ah shit, I didn't even think about how hurricane season would affect boca chica

I wonder if Elon eats ass

>>11677438
>Not named after obscure SHMUPs like Gradius or R-type
Gay

>X Æ A-12 after scraping his arm on the playground
>>11678764
He probably ate Grimes'.

>>11678719
research based off of claims of a pilot that his airplane was sucked through a weird atmospheric phenomenon, which pares thinks is due to very rare conditions in storms warping space.

No one has taken him seriously. If he is right, /x/ will have a field day.

>>11678798
/x/ is right about everything

Isn't there a really shitty and almost tropical storm on the way there? If they have to scrub today it's likely they won't have good launch conditions for a week or so

>Going to bed
>LabPadre goes live streaming a fire

NO GO

>>11678810
Eh ive caught the last 2 live, i really want to see the hop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWc1DHxWfs

X-37b launch boys

>>11678813
No, like an actual freaking building or multiple buildings on fire kek

FUCK WEATHER

>90% probability of no go

welp, thanks for tuning in

>>11678835
Well its counting down. Heres hoping.

USSF-7 T-3 minutes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWc1DHxWfs

Spoke too soon. That was the last window today anyway.

>>11678843
Dang, ah well the weather does look pretty rough

Another traffic jam at the Canaveral range

>>11678075

fuck weather 2bh

Huge fire and cloud of smoke at Boca Chica, something went really wrong with SN4 or GSE
Live -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37CTuEfWhOA

Lots of ambulances in the other stream. This doesn't look good

>>11678908
>the fire is at south padre, far away from launch ops

Is this at SpaceX?

>>11678908
>>11678913
>>11678917
>>11678918
South padre island beach resort is on fire, the camera operator swung the camera so people could see it, testing will probably be scrubbed for today so the police and emergency services can focus all their efforts there.

>>11678583
Lol retard
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=5

Some bad weather in texas I think. But won't be an actual issue for a week or two.

>>11678929
It's raining heavily it's not like they were going to test today anyway
>mfw Elon starts ranting on Twitter against God for sending rain

>>11678929
that sucks ass. hope no one is hurt.

>>11678929
>resort burns down
>launch site grows lager

>>11678908
>About to go to sleep
>Do the rounds one last time
>See this

Personally, this reminds me of Amos 6, which blew up just before I was going to sleep.

>>11678900
The Buran was actually a slightly more capable craft than the Space Shuttle.

>>11678008
It's almost, almost as if billionaires aren't the only people in the world capable of corruption.

>>11678954

buran: 100% capable of autonomous flight
shuttle:one human error and its the end

buran: takes off without a problem from the harshest climate on earth
shuttle: if the weather deviates more than 3° from perfect it autokills all its occupants

buran: 8 tiles showed damage after first flight
shuttle: 346 tiles showed damage after first flight

>slightly more capable

>>11678970
Politicians have done more evil than any billionaire ever has.

>>11678973
kek & based

>>11678973
This is slightly unfair, as the the Shuttle set a very low bar. It's like being amazed that the skinny fat cashier from Walmart is a better runner than a paraplegic who was shot in the chest.

>>11679004
Speaking of; REMEMBER TO EXERCISE OR YOU’RE SHIT

>>11678986
Who do you think pays the politicians to do all the evil shit?

>>11679022
Tax payers. Corporations just want to make money and pay lip service to whatever they think will boost sales.

>>11679022
No billionaire was paying Stalin or Pol Pot or Mao
Maybe Hitler though

>>11676878
In case you don't know, falcon heavy have 27

>>11679054
Who wants to bet that the Raptors will see further uprating, allowing the number to be dropped further from 31 to 25, less than Falcon Heavy? It would just require another 24% uprate.

>>11679095
Chamber pressure of nearly 400 bar when?

>>11678719
there is literally no way this is real, they look like their website came out of the early 2000s

>>11678007
>hydrogen, helium, methane, and ammonia
>>11678042
>don't forget about water and carbon dioxide

I'm gonna make a matrix for different characteristics of all of these propellants and a few more exotic ones because why not, then I'm gonna post it. I'm convinced that we can strike a few of these propellants off of the short list of ones that will actually see widespread use in the future.

A space station at Sun-Earth L1, y/n?

>>11679124
Carbon Dioxide in a thermal engine sucks major donkey dick, but it's literally everywhere
water also sucks but is better than CO2
what temperature will you be running the calculations at? assuming a set volume pressure vessel, instead of a set mass of propellant please?

>>11679135
the only think you'd ever want at L1 are sun-observing and Earth-observing satellites
L4 and L5 are good for giant communication relay installations for when your target is at opposition

>>11679135
How long does it take to travel there and how is it done?

>>11679140
That's what I was thinking. We have manned observatories on Earth, so maybe they will start moving to space? Instead of sending new probes there all the time, just send the parts and have the crew make upgrades to the station.

>>11678166
In a nuclear thermal rocket you by definition don't need radiators while the engine is running because your mass flow rate is enough to take away the heat produced. However, being a fission reaction, you're still going to need to be able to deal with fission product decay heat after reactor shut-down, which in all fission reactors is about 6% of full power heat production (once the fission products have reached equilibrium production, which takes at least a few hours).
If your nuclear thermal engine operates at 1 GW of thermal power, when you shut it down you need to be able to radiate away 60 MW of heat. That's a big radiator.
Of course, no realistic NTR burns will ever take a day or more to complete, so it's likely that fission product equilibrium won't be reached, and instead if burns only take half an hour to an hour, you may need to reject 0.05% to 0.2% of full power heat, ie 0.5 to 2 MW. Still a large enough radiator, but if you are just trying to throw the heat away you can use a high temperature radiator that reaches almost the same temperature as the core of the reactor, and thus would require only a few tens of square meters or so of area.
If you try to generate any electricity from that decay heat you're gonna need radiators at least an order of magnitude larger in order to set up a thermal gradient through your heat engine.
Also, if you're using a nuclear light bulb design, I suppose it'd be possible that the majority of the heat produced in the fuel could be emitted as visible and infrared light literally shining out of the engine's backside, depending on if the decay heat peak temperature is lower than what the quartz bulbs can safely withstand. I wouldn't bet on that though.

>>11679145
Five times the distance of the Moon. You send a spacecraft and it inserts itself into orbit around L1.

>>11679148
For what purpose would you man it? Observation is one of the things probes don't really need help with.

>>11679150
continue flowing fuel through the thermal exchange at a reduced mass rate, it'll be fine
just never burn to depletion unless you want to melt your reactor

>>11678547
>Doesn't matter how much they cost it's free delta
This is never true. Even something as 'free' as gravity assists have costs and benefits you need to weigh, such as usually taking longer than a direct transfer, and needing to wait for a more constrained launch window since you literally need the planets to align.

>>11679153
Observatories on Earth are manned.

>>11678641
I take it it scrubbed? Haven't watched the video yet.

>>11679158
Observatories on Earth are grant farms. The ones in space do just fine. At most, you'll want to make them serviceable, but the interval of maintenance is going to be in years if not decades with near-future increasingly robust equipment

>>11678783
He and Grimes probably hold hands while listening to music and make love in the face-to-face upright sitting position.

>>11679162
yeah

>>11678929
>no one in their right mind would ever colonize a planet with an oxygen rich atmosphere; you're just asking for uncontrolled runaway combustion reactions to break out and cause massive damage to your facilities. Unlike a world with an inert atmosphere, where you can simply flush the oxygen out of the building with large air movers, or worlds with little to no atmosphere where you can vent to reduce pressure until combustion becomes impossible to sustain, on an oxygen-rich atmosphere world your only hope is for the proper function of fire suppression systems such as foam spray and/or the quick response of off-site fire fighter teams.

>>11679180
depends on how oxygen rich that atmosphere is
30% would probably work just fine

>>11679095
Nah, rather than drop the number of Raptors at that point they'd stretch all the tanks. The only reason they're going from 37 to 31 in the first place is because 6 of those 37 needed to be mounted such that they were sticking out of the side of the base of the booster somewhat, complicating the design. Increase in performance meant they didn't need those 6. Increase in performance beyond what they have now means a bigger and better rocket, not fewer engines.

>>11679192
Why not have the base of Super Heavy flare out? Would be more stable on landing and you could fit more engines.

>>11679191
we're at 20% and we're already getting runaway thermal combustion

>>11679136
For Isp, I'm going to cheat and use Zubrin's table from his old 1990's presentation of Mars Direct, and fill in the blanks. I'm also going to set volumetric flow rate at a constant of 1 m^3/s, just to make finding mass flow rate and engine thrust more easy. Finally, I think I'll go for a minimum total thrust to weight ratio rather than fixed propellant mass or fixed propellant volume, because thrust to weight ratio would be more important for determining real world utility. Let me know if you disagree.

>>11679201
how are you going to calculate the mass of your tanks?
some propellant combinations require higher than atmospheric pressure to stay liquid, like CO2

>>11679154
You'd be taking a big hit in average stage Isp, anon. Using a small coolant flow rate to remove decay heat wouldn't provide useful thrust, but would consume propellant mass regardless, and since you'd need to do that after every burn it directly counts for the total propellant mass used for a given impulse. It's an easy quick-and-dirty solution, but if you actually care about performance you'd want a high temperature radiator.

>>11679191
>>11679196
>The maximum atmospheric oxygen concentrations on earth was 35% and was reached towards the end of the Carboniferous period
I would guess any planet that has a vast enough ecosystem with no sentient beings would probably be around that level if we ever found one.

>>11679194
More complex design, more structural mass, more time spent building, worse aerodynamics, etc. The ideal design is a straight walled cylinder with an engine cluster tucked away inside the bottom, and they want to try to stay as close to that ideal as they can.

>>11679196
it seems we are doing just fine though

>>11679220
a settlement in Texas just burned down, live on camera anon

>>11679223
Stuff burns down all the time. We rebuild.

>>11679227
it's simply irresponsible to build on planets with such high oxygen concentrations, anon, the risk to life and property is simply too high

>>11679205
CO2 is a liquid at 6 bar and ~221K. Taking Starship as an example, which needs to be able to hold ~8.5 bar before failing, I'm going to guesstimate and say that a CO2 propellant storage tank only needs to be ~15% more massive than the exact same volume tank for a liquid with a much lower vapor pressure, like oxygen.

For everything else, I'm going to assume that a 90% mass ratio of propellant to propellant tank is feasible, ie a 100 ton wet-mass methane tank weighs 10 tons empty and holds 90 tons of methane. Again, this is all just meant to be a ballpark comparison, accurate enough to identify clear winners and losers, I'm not trying to write a paper to submit for peer review.

>>11679230
You’re overly risk-averse.

>>11679232
>constant mass ratio tanks
tanks are typically constant-volume per weight, anon

>>11679215
Oxygen levels reached extremes during the carboniferous because of a combination of a globally warm, wet climate and the fact that there was something like a 40 million year lag between plants evolving lignin and anything else evolving the ability to digest lignin. It'd be like if a plant species today developed the ability to produce polyethylene plastics in its body tissue and gained a huge advantage because of it; you'd have plastic plants planets growing on top of gigantic piles of dead, non-decomposing plastic plants, converting massive amounts of CO2 into plastic and oxygen gas.

As soon as fungi developed the ability to digest lignin, oxygen levels peaked and began to drop off.

>>11679238
I mean across propellants; that is to say, methane gets a 90% mass ratio, ammonia gets a 90% mass ratio, water gets a 90% mass ratio, etc. The only exceptions are CO2 which gets an 88.5% mass ratio and hydrogen, which gets an 80% mass ratio.

>>11679230
You're insane. Of course accidents will happen.

>>11679262
yes, that's incorrect
tank mass scales off of the volume of the tanks
use a constant mass of propellant, and scale your tanks to that volume, then calculate mass off of that

>>11679262
>and hydrogen, which gets an 80% mass ratio.

Why do people use this stuff again?

>>11679284
It's expensive to build for.

>>11679270
>yes, that's incorrect
It's not, though. Hydrolox stages always have a worse mass ratio than, for example kerolox, because the hydrolox has a far lower bulk density, and because hydrolox requires additional tank mass in the form of insulation (and for a long mission duration vehicle, an active cryocooler system to prevent boil-off, which I am rolling into tank mass because it helps to avoid skewing the numbers unrealistically in hydrogen's favor). Similarly, liquid CO2 propellant requires a tank that's continuously kept at high pressure (I'm picking 6 bar @ -52 C to stay comfortably above and to the right of the triple point), which means it will need to be slightly more massive for its volume, as it would need to hold an internal pressure even higher in order to avoid cavitation in the pumps feeding the NTR (10 bar perhaps?). I chose a relatively minor increase in dry mass for a CO2 tank of any given size of 2.5% on top of the baseline 10%.

>>11679135
lagrange points are only really interesting for parking a shitload of oneil cylinders in.
Space stations should be close to a resource.

>>11679284
Engineers falling for memes, and bureaucrats aiming to farm more contract money.

>>11679317
yes, that's what I said
and tank mass scales directly off of tank volume
so either decide on a mass of propellant or vehicle mass (the latter requires more algebra), calculate your tank volume from that, and then calculate your tank mass from that
that gives you your propellant ratio

>>11678809
I checked the NHC website, it's literally off Canaveral coast right now, which means it should drift north even if it gets stronger.

I just want that metallic nigga to do a jump already

>>11679467
In miami right now and it was quite the nothingburger. Should stop bothering canaveral soon. Most of the Rain and Wind is on the east side.

>A California state panel on Friday rejected a request from Elon Musk`s SpaceX for $655,500 in state job and training funds, citing the chief executive`s recent threats to move Tesla, the electric carmaker that he also runs, out of the state.
>The funding from the state employment development fund was supposed to help SpaceX train 900 employees for its Starlink satellite project and hire 300 to work on its Starship program.
yesssss.... give him more reasons to move you calitards...

>>11679196
Only in places where they use wood to build houses.
Bricks don't burn.

>>11679196
>>11679180
Unironically though, fires will be a huge danger on Mars.

>some dumb faggot lights a candle
>tips over and lands on a bed or some curtains or something
>smoke quickly fills everything
>only solution to protect rest of colony is to close the airlocks until you can send in some guys in space suits to put out the fire
>everyone inside of the locked airlocks dies of smoke inhalation in what amounts to a giant gas chamber
>dozens, maybe hundreds of dead, half of the colony ruined

>>11679566
> Unironically though, fires will be a huge danger on Mars.

Just put foam bombs on every ceiling.

>>11679571
just douse the whole thing in the metric fucktons of argon you're going to wring out of the atmosphere when you're trying to capture carbon dioxide for methane production and have everybody carry SCBA around

>>11679551
I don't get the logic behind doing this. Is the state panel hoping to lock down Tesla and/or SpaceX and control them more? That's the only thing I can come up with that makes sense.

>>11679579
Argon? What’s that doing in the Martian air?

>>11679586
it's just an excuse to punish SpaceX for being anti-union

>>11679394
No thanks. Everyone gets 90% propellant by mass except for hydrogen, helium, and CO2.
>>11679579
This, also nothing inside the colony is flammable anyway.

>>11679596
Allowing Unions is a great way to hamper an economy.

>>11679593
Martian air is ~1.9% argon, anon. It's also 2.6% nitrogen by the way.

>>11679593
Argon is fucking everywhere in planetary atmospheres
it's 98% carbon dioxide, and then 60/40 Nitrogen/Argon for the remainder on Mars
Earth is 78% Nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and then the remainder is argon basically
>>11679605
it's literally like one more cell in your spreadsheet
I'll do it if you post your equations

>>11679566
>Customs: hey dumbfuck, your lighter and candles aren't allowed on the colony
>Dumbfuck: oh
Crisis averted. Disasters like this only happen if you deserve them.

>>11679586
Don't expect long-term thinking from Californian liberals. The state is dying because of their garbage government.
It's why Texans want Californians to stop moving here- the Californians keep voting for the government to be more like the shithole they left.

>>11679596
Really? Is SpaceX that much against unions?

>>11679606
What's wrong with unions?

>>11679620
Even if you manage to retard proof in that way, there's a risk of electrical fires.

It would probably be mitigated at least somewhat by the lack of flammible materials on Mars (rock and steel being the two easiest materials to make stuff out of)

>>11679514
No FAA permit yet. Once that gets cleared hops will happen. Until then only expect static fires and pressure tests.

>>11679629
Unions are a corrupt, festering racket.

>>11679629
>What's wrong with unions?

They drive up the cost of goods and kill job growth.
If SpaceX allowed unions, goodbye to those cheap launch costs. Unions should be illegal.

>>11679629
Watch On the Waterfront, but realize there's no Marlon Brando to help and the unions only got worse since then

>>11679554
>Bricks don't burn.
Not with that attitude!

>>11679635
Pretty much the only issue is the fact that it isn't quick and easy to evacuate. Materials are a bonus but also if you're security conscious every module will likely have detection and fire suppression systems as well as individual airlocks. Fire detected -> local fire suppression, general lockdown, flush the airlocks. It would be very difficult for a fire to spread under those conditions.

>>11679639
Don't unions serve to help workers and ensure that working conditions aren't unnecessarily dangerous?

>>11679640
I guess not allowing unions would be fine as long as the company still treats its employees fairly. Making unions illegal seems like a rather extreme option.

>>11679635
Its pretty much impossible for electrical fires to occur on a correctly wired and protected system anon. The vast majority of electrical fires are caused by Pedro nigger rigging shit or trees falling on power lines.

>>11679660
no, unions serve to line their own pockets while negotiating for higher wages for their workers and mandatory union membership (so they can demand higher dues from their now captive constituency)

The numbers are in, anons. Turns out that the three propellants worth using in a nuclear thermal rocket, at least until we can mine gas giants for their helium, are hydrogen, methane, and water.

>muh ammonia
It provides very slightly more Isp than water, but the same volumetric propellant flow rate results in only 70% of the thrust being developed. It's also less dense, less common, and more difficult to store than water. I can't think of a niche use for ammonia in a nuclear thermal rocket given the figures I got unless you found a moon or planet with oceans of the stuff and very little water available.
>muh CO2
Despite being more dense than water, it takes a significant enough hit in terms of Isp that it actually produces less thrust at the same volumetric flow rate than water, about 84% as much. CO2 only makes sense as a NTR propellant if you've got a world with lots of CO2 and not much easily available water, and low enough gravity for the ~283 Isp to be worth anything. Mars fits the bill, at least until we have good enough water extraction industry going on that it becomes trivial to swap over to water.

Some propellants that perform well but are disqualified for other reasons include neon and diborane. Liquid neon is dense enough and efficient enough that it produces 114% the thrust of a water propelled NTR at an equal volumetric flow rate, but it's too rare in the solar system to be worth considering. Diborane is potentially a super-propellant in a thermal rocket, decomposing into borane at high temperature and achieving Isp between that of water and methane but at a much higher mass flow rate, resulting in 168% the thrust of a water NTR. However, solid boron deposition would be a major issue, and more importantly boron is a strong neutron absorber, so it is almost certainly nonviable in a NTR.

Specs on H2, He, and H2O in next post.

>>11679660
Unions' work safety expertise lies in collecting false testimony, not in practical conditions.

>>11679614
>I'll do it if you post your equations
I punched things into a calculator, anon. I have nothing to give unfortunately.

>>11679656
One big question is what gas mixture the colony is using.

A colony could use a pure oxygen atmosphere at a lower pressure so the partial pressure of oxygen is similar to that on earth, but with a lower overall pressure.

This would be really useful, especially for inflatable habitats, but the downside is that everything would be a lot more flammable because there isn't the inert nitrogen there to absorb some of the heat.

>>11679677
oh, give your figures and I'll turn it into a spreadsheet and then post it in advanced concepts on NSF

Reminder that when unions work they are fantastic and if you oppose them on principal you should be gassed. But yes, American unions are pure mafia cancer organisations that bear little resemblance to an actual union.

>>11679687
this nigga knows

>>11679687
>Reminder that when unions work they are fantastic

At making everything more expensive through artificial inflation.

it's really remarkable how much of a crinkly piece of garbage Starship Mk 1 and 2 were

>>11679705
The new ones are a lot better looking.

>>11679703
>At making everything more expensive
Because of artificial inflation, or because the employer can't run the company like a sweatshop any more?

Would it be possible to take a poop and shoot it into space without anyone knowing?

>>11679711
I know

>>11679717
no
the last guy who tried that got assassinated by Israel

>>11679679
You have nitrogen and argon freely available everywhere around you. There is no reason why a Mars habitat would ever lack for inert mixture.

>>11679712
>or because the employer can't run the company like a sweatshop any more?

Don’t like your pay? Leave, or perform well and ask for a raise.

>>11679729
Go suck bezos dick faggot