/sci/ - Science & Math

That's a good point but the wastelands are cool. I think we should conserve them.

>>11666910
transforming mars is not comparable to transforming a wasteland in America

>>11666915
it's a million times harder, yeah

>>11666915
There's plenty of wastelands to choose from. We can try to find one as close as possible to Mars or the moon..
Or perhaps we can artificially create one on a smaller scale and then try to teraform it.

On Earth someone might not like all the slave labor they will need.

>>11667027
Getting slave labour to mars and keeping them alive is going to be harder than doing the terraforming.

>>11666910
there would be people who would be against it and causing riots
on mars nobody gives a fuck

>>11666910
terraforming mars is a bullshit dream but it wouldn't mean making the entire planet habitable. Maybe inside that deep valley where the air pressure allows earth like temps.
You will always have desert regions and frozen regions on earth, you can "spot terraform" if you could terraform at all

>>11667059
*can't

>>11666910

Because terraforming is a propaganda gimmick. Any planet-wide terraforming effort will take hundreds or even thousands of years and monstrous industrial capacity to do so.

>>11666910
I don't think you could use a wasteland on Earth as a proof of concept for terraforming another planet.
terraforming is first and foremost changing the atmosphere to make it more suitable to humans, you can't change the atmosphere in just one region of a planet.

>>11666910

Energy. We live on a planet where most of the surface is covered in water and yet we still have water shortages because it is mostly undrinkable salt-water. Desalinating water is energy-expensive and therefore expensive. If we were able to find a method to desalinate cheaply or we had a cheaper and more abundant source of energy this would solve the issue.

>>11666910

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ARhNOE4rEc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ARhNOE4rEc

>>11667041
Present undocumented immigrants the opportunity to obtain a green card after working the Martian wasteland

>>11666910
right gravity: check
breathable atmosphere: check
Protection from radiation: check.
If you're really anal you could say it's sometimes a little too hot and water scarce, but those things are quite easy to handle. Air con, a water pipeline or at worst a periodical tank truck to fill up your reserves.
Done.

>>11666910
He is teraforming BocaChica

>>11666910
>why aren't we first trying to terraform wastelands here
Because they can't. Mars colonization is a fantasy to distract the NPC masses from the fact that the human species is killing the planet.

>>11666931
that would be the Antarctis

>>11666910
I'm not sure many of you understand the process of terraforming. It's changing the entire atmosphere, chemical makeup of the planet. We can't just seed the desert and expect it not to have a knock-on effect on the rest of the world.
Altering the chemical makeup of a derelict planet is a lot easier and less problematic than pretending atmospheric winds won't blow your cocktail of fizzy water all over the middle east if you seed the upper atmosphere.
The moon doesn't even have an atmosphere but again, we find it difficult to imagine a scenario in which altering the physical makeup of the earth-moon gravitational symbiosis has anything but a negative effect on both bodies. Even the recent mining contracts are worrying.
Mars is the only really feasible body worth investigating properly and even then, nobody wants to invest in it. You would need an entire fleet of ships, a vast network of chemists and physicists not to mention the commercial pilots and ship workers, that kind of manual labour doesn't exist yet.
It takes a year to get to Mars so 2 year round trip, not impossible and not terribly difficult but nobody wants to try to balance that workload and not be held responsible for when things inevitably go wrong.
Working out exactly when to send more fuel and supplies a year in advance to an orbital crew or even colony isn't impossible, but again, nobody wants to be responsible for that.

It's doable but the defense contracts make money whereas the space contracts do not, all the US senate cares about is making money not spending it.
Ironic really because if it wasn't for a century of warfare and the marriage of centralised banking you would probably see a lot more eagerness to embark on this. The new world was founded by people escaping the banking class and it's organised market manipulation only to become the biggest supporters of it.

>>11667258
You are a fucking idiot. Even NASA has a webpage telling people it's not possible to terraform Mars, and they're the most mainstream NPC normalshit in existence. Mars colonization is a fucking fantasy. Nothing more. And further, if you either believe in it or shill it, you deserve life enslavement and imprisonment to work in mines until you die from arthritis and black fucking lung.

>>11667222

Antarctica should be left alone by everyone except researchers

>>11667083
Isn't that just indentured servitude which the UN treats like slavery

>>11666910
You can't just drop nukes and comets in the middle of Earth's deserts.

>>11666910
"wasteland" on Earth is a misnomer. They're already habitable for humans.

>>11667333
Why is that supposed to do something for Mars?

>>11666910
I don't like Musk but I think that he doesn't always about terraforming Mars, he does always talk about getting to Mars though.

What do you mean by wastelands? You mean deserts? Like Antarctica or Sahara? If so, why should we try to "terraform" them? At first, they are already terraformed. Then, some, if not all, have developed complex ecosystems which would be devastated by such a massive intervention. It could, also, be pretty dangerous as it might interfere with adjacent local climates and ecosystems, and as a result with us humans.

Wastelands are already terraformed

Beltalowta do all work, but the boss man on Earth gets all the spoils

>>11666910
Because those people are delusional sci-fi geeks and peddlers of bullshit.

>>11666910
There were plans to terraform parts of northern africa but that was in the faggotless age before the world wars.

>>11667590
Pay your taxes skinny. Now watch this drive.

>>11667264
You could probably colonise areas of Mars, but you might as well build orbital habitats, it would be cheaper. With Mars you have to pay for getting into orbit, transitory orbit, Mars orbit, and landing. With a space habitat you only need to pay for leo, and then you can move anywhere if it's designed right, and with enough time, these habitats could roam the solar system and mine resources at sustainable costs to develop and maintain themselves, as well as build more habitats. Why even go to the bottom of a gravity well unless it's back to earth to do earth things, like hunting, skiing, skydiving and boating. Earth should be a pleasure palace while space should.be where all the work is done.

You create a new paradise on Earth and it is immediately invaded by blacks and browns, which means there is no longer the paradise on Earth.

O'Neill Cylinders with very strict immigration requirements.

>>11667724
I think the motivation is in-situ resource utilization (ISRU). If you can scavenge your materials from a body, you don't have to spend fuel to bring them with you. If you make a station in LEO, you'd have to either launch all your resources or have a really robust asteroid/comet mining system. (Still, I would guess that asteroid mining would be easier than figuring out how to keep Mars from killing you for decades.)

It's simple.

CFCs are around a thousand times as effective as CO2 as greenhouse gases.

You build a bunch of plants on Mars, using mostly locally sourced materials, to manufacture CFCs and just vent them into the atmopshere.

CO2 should start sublimating out of the ground, and eventually it'll reach a point where the air pressure and temperature are high enough that liquid water can exist on the surface and there's rain and shit.

From there you start putting down plants to turn the CO2 into O2, and once the O2 content is high enough, start releasing animals.

>>11667061
just take the co2 from earth to mars lmao

>>11667222
Nuclear test sites might also be a good practice colony. Radiation is a problem that both test sites and extraterrestrial worlds have. Plus, the terrain is basically the same as a crater, for below-ground tests.

>>11667846
Where do you get the hydrogen and fluorine? How do you keep any of the gasses from being blown away from the solar wind?

>>11666910
Less governmental regulation on Mars

>>11666910
This

>>11667724
Here's a far superior idea: just stop fucking up Earth.

>>11669010
But I want to fuck earth

>>11669072
mmm myeah fuck the earth

Because it’s a meme to sell hype. You already know this OP.

>>11667846
>its simple

>suggests something that would take thousands of years of continuous labor on a scale factors larger than the entire world
>doesnt explain how is brilliant plan would even work, for starters where you are going to get the fluorine and hydrogen from on the required scales
>forgets that a functioning magnetosphere is fundamental

read a book for the love of christ

>>11667083
>Present illegal immigrants the opportunity to obtain a green card after working the Martian wasteland
FTFY

>>11669010
Roughly 3.8 billion people on Earth have two digit IQs. How are you going to get buy-in and compliance from them?

>>11669010

One of the solutions to stop Climate Change involves building tons of sats with thin-foil mirrors to diminish the amount of heat that Earth recieves from the Sun. The indistrial capacity to build that amount of mirrors is already there, but not for the actual launch cost. To actually build that number of sats we would need to build industries on the Moon.

>>11669579
Birth control.

>>11669598
But I don't want to stop global warming, you idiot.

>building tons of sats with thin-foil mirrors to diminish the amount of heat that Earth recieves from the Sun.
What a retarded fucking idea. I'd blow it out of the sky as soon as it was finished to make a point.

>>11669610

Luddite.

>>11669010

Earth exist only to be strip mined into dust.

>>11669615
That implies humans have anything that could be called "technology".

>>11669618
Ok die.

>>11669570
Solar wind strips something like 3 kilos off mars's atmosphere every minute. Hardly noticeble. But long term a magnetosphere should be used.

>>11669630

>He would rather have humanity go extinct to preserve the planet and its "natural" vistas.

THE STATE OF ENVIRONMENTALISTS ZEALOTS!

>>11669651

Magnetosphere can be replicated with a constelation of sats. Nothing that we will ever do to Mars will be natural, but why would you want anything to be natural anyway?

>>11669598
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade

Was just looking that up. Considering starship is coming online soon, they could do a starlink type thing where they flood the L1 point with tons of solar sail type spacecraft, or lenses to reduce stationkeeping fuel usage. I just don't know if the starships used would be reuseable, if they were this would be quite feasible and literally get musk the support of everyone alive.

>>11669653
>>He would rather have humanity go extinct to preserve the planet and its "natural" vistas.
>implying humanity has to go extinct to preserve earth's natural potential
pretty big gap in logic there. you runnin for congress or somethin?

>>11669653
And?

>>11669688
No, humanity has to go extinct to preserve the biosphere. Humans are like a noxious weed. If any are left, they will just regenerate and ruin the garden again. The correct number of humans for a healthy ecosystem is 0.

>>11666910
im totally for greening the deserts especially desert dryland like the middle of australia.

>>11667041
yeah but then they will revolt, ask for independence then 200 years later there will charming martian guy with a big knife going through the cities of earth.

>>11669699
you first faggot

>>11669719
I'm not human.

>>11667061
Literally just blast off venus' atmosphere with a giant mirror and push it to mars

>>11666910
dont care about mars lets terraform titan

>>11666910
Because zoning laws mainly irrigation laws make this economically pointless.

>>11666910
Soviets tried, did not work well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGwMEXYQE7E

>>11666910
>Why aren't we first trying to terraform wastelands here to see how actually feasible the idea is?

We already tried and FAILED.

The major flaw in the $150 million Biosphere 2 project has been discovered by a leading geochemist and his student, raising questions of whether the venture in the Arizona desert will be corrected in the interest of serious science or will be doomed to repeated cycles of failure in the years ahead. In theory, the experiment is to last 100 years.
As an attempt to create a balanced and self-sustaining replica of Earth’s ecosystems, Biosphere II was a miserable (and expensive) failure. Numerous problems plagued the crew almost from the very beginning. Of these, a mysterious loss of oxygen and widespread extinction were the most notable.Not quite 18 months into the experiment, when oxygen levels dropped to the point where the crew could barely function, the outside managers decided to pump oxygen into the system so they could complete the full 2 years as planned.The designers of Biosphere II included a carefully chosen variety of plant, animal, and insect species. They anticipated that some species would not survive, but the eventual extinction rate was much higher than expected. Of the 25 small vertebrates with which the project began, only 6 did not die out by the mission's end. Almost all of the insect species went extinct, including those which had been included for the purpose of pollinating plants. This caused its own problems, since the plants could no longer propagate themselves.

>>11670797
Biosphere 2 failed because everyone involved in its design was a fucking god damned retard who thought a couple of acres would supply all the gas exchange needed for 6 or 7 or whatever it was adult humans and all their livestock. They brought fucking GOATS for fuck's sake. They did literally everything wrong in that place.

>>11670797
>a mysterious loss of oxygen and widespread extinction
>carefully chosen variety of plant, animal, and insect species
>plant
>animal
>insect
What form of life was not carefully selected, which has always dominated our world and whose mood shifts change the very chemical makeup of our planet?

>>11670797
Bullshit. Biosphere II problems were caused by carbon dioxide reacting with exposed concrete inside Biosphere 2 to form calcium carbonate in a process called carbonatation, thereby sequestering both carbon and oxygen. After they sealed the concrete, Biosphere II worked well. It ended for non-technical reasons and very little effort was spent to make a sealed ecosystem since.

For all we know, closed-loop ecosystems are easy. Pic related.

>>11670870
>Bullshit. Biosphere II problems were caused by carbon dioxide reacting with exposed concrete inside Biosphere 2 to form calcium carbonate in a process called carbonatation
So they say. Pretty sure that's the part that's bullshit.

>>11666910
Muh universe is my play toy.

>>11670879

Pretty sure you know nothing about the project.

>>11670916
Pretty sure I've studied it for years and saw flaws immediately the first time I glanced at the fucking thing.

this is why you stem nerds shouldn't be in charge of anything
Earth deserts and "wastelands" are still viable ecosystems and should be preserved as such. biology isnt STEM btw too many women

we are terraforming wastelands, look into the green wall of china and reforesting in the middle east
granted, most of the deforestation in these regions are from overgrazing of livestock and not because they are an alien climate

>>11670935
Fuck off
Drain the Mediterranean
Flood the Sahara
Green the deserts

There are loads of shit ecosystems which don't deserve to exist and serve no purpose

https://ftp.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/wd52yx/Merryfield/temp_20170805.gr

>>11666910
What do you think the Saudis and Emiratis have been doing

>>11670989
What a fucking retard.

>>11666910
Musk reads and watches too much sci-fi and not enough reality. He's just another immature airheaded geek, he just happened to inherit a lot of money.

Cody'sLab is already sort of doing that. Not terraforming but building a self-sustainable base which is supposed to comply to being able to withstand Mars-like conditions.

>>11671022
>inherit
Not sure if baiting but he's a dotcom boomer, he didn't inherit it just had some successful online products. One become paypal.

>>11671022
He did not inherit it and other billionaires are doing much less to advance humanity. Clearly it is not just having money.

>>11671041
>He did not inherit it
Yes he did. And almost all the wealth he has he got from tax dollars. Tesla has never made a profit last I checked.

>>11671041
>Yes he did.
No he didn't. He had like ~10k dollars when he immigrated into America. He is a self-made billionaire.

>>11666912
No need to conserve them, they are expanding as far as i know

>>11671062
That's fucking bullshit first of all. But secondly almost every fucking penny of his billions has come from AMERICAN FUCKING TAX DOLLARS. Elon Musk is an enormous welfare parasite.

first things first, how do you even restart Mars' magnetic field? Is that even possible? Crashing phobos into Mars may do it?

>>11671590
You don't. This is all just pop-sci masturbatory fantasy bullshit.

>>11666910
>but why aren't we first trying to terraform wastelands here
Ethical concerns. There are people with ethical concerns about terraforming the moon even.

Fuck conservationists. Let them ogle at rocks and watch the planet die.

>>11671526
and ULA aren't fleecing the American public way more?
You, as a taxpayer, should be worshipping Elon Musk as a god for exposing the ULA racket
You're just a jealous cunt m8

>>11671617
>You should worship
NO. Fuck you and die. I worship no man. I want to force shit down your throat until you drown in it.

>>11671590
Not even important because atmospheric loss would occur on geological timescales and we would have found ways of recovering lost atmosphere by that point (self replicating swarms maybe).
Even then it will be possible to generate an artificial magnetic field in orbit within a couple of hundred years at most

>>11671625
>dumb cunt reacts to intentionally inflammatory remark
Point is, at least be happy he's moving things in the right direction instead of being a low IQ 'muh taxes' retard

>>11671636
Kill yourself.

What if we just nuke mar's polar caps.
Would that terraform it?

>>11671526
>we will literally pay you to develop this technology for us
>okay, here you go
>how DARE you do this you FUCKING parasite

>>11671640
Nope, not enough in them.

>>11671641
Luxury cars for the rich don't benefit society, faggot.

>>11671645
The technology does, moron.

>>11671526
>almost every fucking penny of his billions has come from AMERICAN FUCKING TAX DOLLAR

And saved taxpayers $$ billions in the process. Taxpayer money very well spent.

>>11669699
All life on Earth would not exist were it not for a handful of organisms that devastated the early "biosphere" utterly. There's nothing special about humans, and there's certainly nothing unnatural about our behavior. Instead be happy that we can even think about preserving the current ecosystems at all, without us it would be doomed to extinction within several hundred million years.

>>11671645
Technology trickles down.

>>11669699
>No, humanity has to go extinct to preserve the biosphere

Quite the opposite. Humanity is the only chance of the biosphere surviving more than a billion years.

>>11671655
>were it not for a handful of organisms that devastated the early "biosphere" utterly
*tweaks chemistry for a bit more efficiency*
*kills your entire biosphere*

>>11671637
I've done a number on m8 lol

>>11666910
probably because he's only interested in making money, not in terraforming