/sci/ - Science & Math

I'm glad people involved in space exploration are sincerely hopeful and optimistic about the future of mankind. Everyone is so pessimistic these days.

>>11653645
>I'm glad people involved in space exploration are sincerely hopeful and optimistic about the future of mankind

Optimism is measurably a healthier way to live.

> Everyone is so pessimistic these days.

It’s unfortunate I suppose, but I don’t concern myself with what soulless neurotic sadsacks are up to.

>>11653653
This, based.

So how did the pressure test go yesterday?

>>11653691
Well SN4 is still there, so pretty well

>>11653691
According to https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48895.2860
Nothing unusual happened. Some pics of Starship being illuminated by lightning.

>>11653706
Do people genuinely believe lightning is real? It’s ridiculous what people can be brainwashed into. Never seen lightning in my life

>>11653638
If that's how fusion spaceships will look like i'd prefer we never invent fusion engines.

>>11653720
Don’t be like that. Practicality has to come before aesthetics.

>>11653720
If we can eventually build big enough in space you could see giant lawn-dart torchships as well.

>>11653638
Ol' Musky is apparently moving Tesla HQ out of Fremont because he's fed up with the local government. I wonder if he'll eventually realize it's a shit state in general and get Spacex out of Hawthorne. I'd be jazzed about them moving to Texas. Houston or the valley area down by Boca Chica would both be good spots, and it would be closer to their own future launch site and McGregor.

>>11653728
That looks kind of neat. We wouldn’t need that sort of delta/v unless we’re going to the outer planets or Mercury. Mars is our near future and chemical engines are just fine for going there and back.

>>11653737
The Firefly design is specifically for interstellar missions. You get a delta-v of like 0.2c.

>>11653749
The solar system is so fucking big that it’s a bit silly to me to even contemplate interstellar missions yet.
We’ve got a lot to do here. A lot to see and explore and exploit. It’s like running to the higher level zones in an MMO instead of playing through the initial ones. We’ll make that last, great plunge thousands of years.

>>11653760
Any reasonable spacefaring society will do both, in the same way that in the 1960s we built bicycles as well as Saturn Vs.

>>11653749
The solar system is so fucking big that it’s a bit silly to me to even contemplate interstellar missions yet.
We’ve got a lot to do here. A lot to see and explore and exploit. It’s like running to the higher level zones in an MMO instead of playing through the initial ones. We’ll make that last, great plunge thousands of years from now.

>>11653762
>>11653763

>>11653762
There is a certain appeal to the idea of traveling beyond the sun’s light, and there’s always parties interested in getting as far away as they can from everyone else, but I’d rather see each of the moons and planets here intimately before flying off into the interstellar abyss.

>>11652504
How about binary systems then? That will give you a stellar mass object to break off of that's not moving at the same speed as the whole system.

>>11653726
It's not practical either,that's gonna get shredded by micro meteors at torchship speeds.

>>11653733
>more Californians moving to Texas
Please no, we're full.

>>11653800
californians really are a plague on the rest of the country.

>>11653796
For a magnet sail you just need to do a 180 degree turn once you get past the destination star's equivalent of the heliopause and brake on the stellar wind.

>>11653717
hwat

>>11653717
>He still believes in seeing.
Fucking sheep I swear.

>>11653733
He will reduce the dependency on Fremont factory once his Texas factory comes on.

>>11653807
>brake on the stellar wind.

BRAAAAAAAAP

>>11653733
Wait, that was an actual tweet. Damn. He's had it with California's draconian restrictions.

>>11653717
>brainwashed
not a thing

>>11653864
god bless

>>11653864
It sure was.

>>11653733
10K direct jobs, + 100K+ parts contractors.

>>11653932
Impossibly, unequivocally, infinitely, absolutely and completely
B A S E D

>>11653932
yesssss

>>11653932
I dont think he will do it

>>11653800
Full of mexicans that is

>>11653955
Based on what exactly? He's been camping out in Boca Chica building rockets for months and is selling his home in California.

>>11653955
They'll move HQ to Texas. Manufacturing will still stay in California for a while until a larger Texas factory can run fully without harming bottom line. Once that happens, they'll phase out California.

>>11653932
Moving HQ makes sense, axing manufacturing there is definitely a bluff, they're supply constrained as it is.

>>11653955
>

>>11653959
>Based on what exactly?

They’ve spent billions on that facility and it’s the only place that makes model S, X, and Y vehicles. If they do pull out, it will be in the coming years

>>11653962
If you move the HQ, the county won't be able to collect tax money the HQ makes. Many sales are recorded as HQ sales with Tesla. So that's a loss for the state and gain for Texas/Nevada.

>>11653966
Even if it does take years, or if they spend the resources to build a duplicate factory in Texas first and then scrap the other one it would be better than doing business with c*lifornians.

>>11653962
I wonder how much it would cost to move the production equipment from CA to TX

>>11653932
Holy fucking BASED

>>11653966
They spent billions learning how to optimize the manufacturing process. Reding that work in a new location will cost money but take little time, and if it's in a better location it's a better situation to be in overall. Never listen to the sunk-cost jew on your shoulders, anons.

>>11653932
Are the callitards chimping out yet?
>NOOOOOO! YOU CANNOT REOPEN! STAY AT HOME AND SAVE LIVES!
>NOOOOOO! YOU CANNOT LEAVE, MUH TAXES! THINK ABOUT ALL THE HOMELESS DRUG ADDICTS WE CAN NO LONGER TURN A BLIND EYE TO!
I hope this sets a precedent.

>>11653991
>Reding
redoing*

>>11653992
It was already a precedent, I'd hear d about companies moving their asses out of commiefornia for years now, a lot of them to Texas where property taxes are nil and regulation is much less aggressive.

>>11653991
Texas has a lower corporate tax rate so it’s probably better for profits to relocate there

>elon is having an episode again

Could this maniac at least wait until after the Crew Dragon flight for the sake of optics?
I swear one day he's gonna take things too far...

>>11653762
>Bicycles were invented and developed at the same time as spacecraft

>>11653996
Meanwhile California doesn’t even build enough houses to put everyone in the state in one because of regulations and some of the worst rents in America

>>11654000
>I swear one day he's gonna take things too far...
All the way to Mars, my nigger

>>11653991
>They spent billions learning how to optimize the manufacturing process
And you think that will be forgotten? Nope. More likely they'll further optimize on top of what they learned from Fremont and China. Their China factory is highly automated and has state of the art manufacturing capabiltiies. Berlin will improve upon that design and optimize it further. Texas will get the latest iteration of their factory design, super automated that will print Cybertrucks.

>>11653996
I remember a case where they chased a guy who helped invent the micro-processor and moved to las vegas and they tried to charge him obscene amounts of money for (tax evasion) even though he hadn't lived or operated in the state for years. Quite disgusting.

>>11654001
Of course not, but they continued to be manufactured, dummy. You'll notice that we still make sailboats despite having nuclear aircraft carriers, etc too.

>>11654000
>He has the Falcon crew paint "FUCK CALIFORNIA" on Crew2 Dragon.
It would be the ultimate form of based.

>>11654014
>And you think that will be forgotten?
I didn't say that. I literally said that they will do a better job based on the lessons learned there and will end up in a better position accordingly. Learn to read please.

>>11654015
It should never be a surprise, C*lifornians are quite disgusting by default.

>>11654000
People were saying he took it too far on May 1st, absolutely nothing of consequence occurred. It's easy to get antsy when nothing is going on.

>>11654022
You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Fremont factory is old, it will probably be cheaper to get started from groundup in a state with less hassle and take all the lessons learned. They'll phase out Fremont soon as their Terafactories come online in other states.

>>11654017
My point was that we weren't trying to make nuclear aircraft carriers when we were still trying to figure out making sailboats

>>11654035
>>11654000
People have been saying shit about Trump for 4 years. With all the crazy things he's done, literally nothing happened.

>>11654039
That's an erroneous comparison to spacecraft. Those are many thousands of years apart in concept. Much of the conceptual groundwork is already done for spacecraft which we simply do not today have the political willpower or public interest to build but otherwise possess most of the technical ability.

>>11654040
It's because the big secret is nothing that he's done has been particularly crazy. Before he took office politicians from both sides of the aisle had made similar propositions.

The only "insane" thing he's done is move the US political system out the previous 20-something years of complete stasis.

>>11654017
>>11654039
I think we can all agree that if/when we reach the point we're ready to go interstellar, we will in all likelihood continue to develop our worlds here in this solar system at the same time. They are by no means mutually exclusive

>>11654050
Nothing Trump has done is "insane" if your only knowledge of presidential behavior of US is Trump. That's not to say he's insane, he's way out there in terms of character. He's unhinged. But Elon hasn't done anything close to what Trump has done. That's the fucking point. Elon has been slowly redpilling his base customer base.

>>11654051
The "REE YOU CAN'T GO TO ALPHA CENTAURI WITHOUT SOLVING ALL THE SOL PROBLEMS FIRST" debates have begun.

>>11654074
Life expectancy is still only 120 on Europa, and you want to expand to Titan?

>>11654039
Okay? What relevance does that have exactly?

If you're talking about future transportation systems, we'll always have chemically propelled vehicles forever, but we may also have more advanced things like micro-fission engines, fusion candles, antimatter annihilation ramjets, black hole drives, etc. Each technology will have its own niche to fill.

If you're talking about colonization progression, there's literally no reason why we won't be able to do interstellar colonization as soon as we're able to colonize the asteroid belt. Doing that means we'll have the technology to build large spin-gravity habitats, which means even with basic nuclear propulsion systems we can easily send fleets of large spacecraft to other stars with all the factories and power supplies and other technology necessary for them to be totally self sufficient for hundreds of thousands of years of coasting in interstellar space with no mining or anything.

You may ask why, but given the industrial capability explosion that would come with colonizing space, as well as the population explosion, that question becomes somewhat meaningless. There will come a point in the future that enough people will be living in communities aboard rotating space habitats that the small fraction of people that would want to go on an interstellar colonization trip just for the hell of it would be large enough that they could collectively afford to buy the necessary habitats and supplies and leave all on their own. What I'm saying is, at some point your crowd becomes so big that you can literally crowd-source an entire colonization fleet headed off to another star.

The point in time at which crowd-sourced interstellar colonization will become possible will come far before the solar system reaches its ultimate state, which is the point at which every large object is not only colonized but disassembled for materials for space habitats and for fuels.

>>11654078
Silly, if you can land on Europa at all you have the ability to land on every moon in the Saturnine system. The delta V requirements to get around the Jovian systems are actually quite big, annoyingly.

spaaaaaace
https://youtu.be/5EgRrAK8_HQ

>>11654040
>With all the crazy things he's done
He literally has done nothing but w/e
like a dog that barks but doesnt bite

>>11654087
space is hard
also inb4 snipers

I wonder if SpaceX HQ will also follow suit and move to Texas. If LA/Cali proves more of a problem for them, they might.

>>11654099
Seems like they'd risk brain drain. It's one thing to make water towers in Texas, most of the hard technical problems are solved in Hawthorne.

>>11654116
I can't imagine that a huge fraction of SpaceX people who have been around long enough to see Falcon completed and Starship started would jump ship. Especially not the ones autistic enough to be problem solvers.

>>11654116
They could have R/D could stay in California but move their production out into Texas. They don't even need the California launch site anymore due to unnecessary cost associated with launching from California.

>>11654051
Yes

SPIN LAUNCH
P
I
N
LAUNCH

>>11653960
Just keep out of the big cities or at least their main counties. All of them have lefty mayors who shat out mask requirements, except maybe FTW. Austin mayor of course was first, then the rest (such as pic related) were climbing over each other to follow them over the cliff.
Fortunately I'm 15 minutes away from a retail/grocery cluster just over the county line.

>>11653979
>>11653986
Now the question will be: will Texas stop being retarded and sucking up to auto dealers? They still can't legally sell a Tesla in the state, it's done like a mail-order thing from another state.

>>11654015
NYC does that too. A certain radio talk show host has to scrupulously avoid doing anything work related whenever he goes back up to visit.

>>11654205
Texas could potentially gain 20K direct Tesla jobs + another 2-5x supplier jobs.

>>11654199
Nothing more than a prank on clueless investors

>>11653932
Wait, won't that mean they'll end up fireing most of their core staff?

>>11654291
relocation packages

>>11654291
Or they could simply not hire people to replace those who are leaving in usual manner. In 5 years, their employee count will be lot less than what is today and will be given relocation incentives. They will also offer any of the current employees relocation incentives once their Texas factory opens up. So between the natural leaving employees, and relocation incentives during the process, and not hiring new employees, they'll be left with skeleton crew. They can then sell the factory or maintain only skeleton crew for software and r/d.

>>11653958
Take a wild guess what California is full of...?

>>11654298
If they simply kept the same salary, it would be a major increase in income because we don't have Cali's retarded real estate restrictions driving up the cost of living.

>>11654212
>2020
>listening to radio
>listening to talk radio
Is this some hipster thing? Wait, wrong meme word..."Is this some boomer thing?" Right?

>>11653638
space FAGGOT thread

I wish it was the 27th already

>>11654385
Don't worry, it'll be delayed for conditions

>>11654385
I wish it was 17th so I could watch another Starlink mission.

Anybody want to help me make a /sfg/ server on discord? I can post server link.

>>11653749
I love firefly,and with the development of Z-Pinch y Zap Energy it's becoming increasingly likely that this type of fusion engine will be viable in the relatively near term-could see a fusion rocket within 20 years.

>>11654402
Fuck that shit and fuck you. Discord circlejerk popularity contests ruin everything they come in contact with.

>>11654402
no, fuck you

>>11654410
>>11654412
mkay bad idea got it

>>11654402
>discuck
Fuck off

>>11653645
>Everyone is so pessimistic these days.
Only doomers

>>11654346
Radio is comfy

>>11654008
>not posting the real one

>>11654402
I would join it.

>>11654434
I'll let someone else take care of it. I forgot about the amount of pol cancer on this board.

>>11654437
You're wrong, it's those bigots from /po/ stirring shit up here with their degenerate folding fetishes.

>>11654437
He's a fed so it doesn't really matter either way.

>>11654402
>discord tranny
YIKES

>>11654441
It's true /po/ is the most hateful board.

>>11654437
there's a discord called rocket emporium with a lot of members and information but 1) it's more reddit-y and 2) last time I checked it was a massive pro-Old Space anti SpaceX circlejerk.

>>11654452
Sounds gay

>>11654452
Sounds like the perfect place for discord trash

>>11654452
Fag-central, no thanks.

Would it be a good idea to make solid rocket propellant using a rubber based epoxy and potassium nitrate? Rubber as been used in other motors as a fuel and has been noted as being a safe fuel for rockets. Also, would this propellant combination be more effective than rocket candy?

>>11654445
rude
t. moderately based and redpilled discord tranny

>>11654471
that (you) was at me. Kys tranny.

>>11653645
based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0azMOJ-h_o

>>11654402
>>11654437
Go fuck yourself. The last thing we need is a Discord that would stir drama here, and you're doing that right now by bringing up /pol/ out of the blue like it's relevant to anything in this thread.

I see that since janny trannies can't absolutely turn every /sfg/ into trash they're just trying to kill the whole thing with discord.

Never submit.

>>11654522
there's already an /sfg/ discord but it's dead as shit

https://vocaroo.com/6ITsXuYS47b

>>11654522
If the janitors want to stir up shit here, then they could just pretend to be moon landing deniers or flat earthers like they've done in the past.

>>11654472
sorry anon, you've been cucked

Any new space thing happened today?

>>11654561
No, but musk is going to war against commiefornia.

>>11654722
perhaps Brownsville slobbering over SpaceX and the jobs it is bringing to the area, plus the lackadaisical regulations, is convincing him that CA sucks

>>11654725
Texas doesn't even have to be particularly good to convince anybody with eyes and a functioning brain that CA sucks.

They are testing Starlink...

https://twitter.com/ChanelRion/status/1259256288011333638

I'm so glad SpaceX exists, I hope Starship absolutely mogs the shit out of every other launch system in existence and that the Mars colony becomes real.

>>11654842
a far-right news org? why?

>>11654893
As opposed to what? China News Network who do nothing but pump out fear propaganda and bitch about shit nobody cares about? Who cares who's testing it, I'll be more interested in how they say it performs.

>>11654842
that's a chonky cat 5 port, heavier duty than most waterproof connectors

>>11654893
You're literally choking in far left media and right wing media is your biggest concern?
It's amazing how everybody recognizes far right bullshit in an instant but is oblivious to far left shit that they spoonfeed to you.

>>11654893
>OAN
>far-right news org

How automated can an economy realistically be?

It makes more sense to send a robot rather than a human, if both of them can do the same job, but how far can this go?

Could you have robots planting crops, monitoring them, and then deciding when to harvest?

Robots running the warehouses and storage facilities?

Robotic kitchens?

It seems like the biggest bottleneck would be communications infrastructure, but it also seems like there's the potential to massively reduce the number of people you need to send.

>>11654985
>Robots running the warehouses and storage facilities?
Already exists
>Robotic kitchens
Some vending machines can make you a fresh pizza, cooking is just performing steps in order
>farming
With more advanced farming techniques, yes

>>11654985
The difficulty I think is less about getting robots to perform each individual task, but instead to get them smart and dexterous enough to perform slightly random versions of that task. Plants don't grow in perfect patterns 100% of the time, sometimes problems happen on farms like bad weather, crop diseases, pests, etc. Your farm automation programs have to be smart enough to know how to fix all of those issues on the fly before they do irreparable damage to the harvest. For humans such on-the-fly thinking and quick snap judgment is basically one of our evolved traits, to automate any complex system well you'll have to endow robots with some of that capability.

>>11654985
Probably 95% within the next 50 years. Robotics is galloping ahead like crazy and costs are steadily falling. You don't need anything like strong AI for most applications,esp if you still keep a couple people on for oversight.

>>11654985

In principle you could have a fully automated economy, just as the biosphere is perfectly capable of 'running' itself in the absence of human intervention.

>>11655004
I was thinking self learning algorithms would be the key to this.

A communications uplink could take the data from computer systems on Mars, and beam it to a supercomputer somewhere on Earth, which could analyze the trends to optimize the code, then beam the new code up to Mars.

The hard part would be keeping North Korean griefers from venting the airlocks.

>>11655016
In principle, in reality the biosphere is almost unimaginably complex compared to our economy, it can soak up a lot more random destabilizing events than our economy can.

>>11655029
lol the uplink will have turbo-grade nsa anti-quantum computer encryption

>>11654985
If you're talking in the context of space, the irony is humans will be replaced in those roles on Earth long before they are on colonies because of the need for flexibility/trial and error. In order to replace a human with a robot you need a well defined set of parameters for it to operate in with clear goals.

Mars will be an austere society, full of scientists and engineers who are rugged and independent. I think it will be independent within 50 years of colonization.

>>11655030

yes, we wouldnt be able to fully automate everything with your current technology but there isn't anything that would theoretically prevent things from eventually reaching that point.

>>11655049
>fully automate economy
>self learning, superintelligent AI realizes that humans are lowering GDP
>uses automated vaccine plants to create superpathogens that wipe out humanity
>GDP goes up by 15% but nobody is there to enjoy it

>>11655053
You don't need a superintelligent ai to get to 95% automation. Such AIs are considered insanely dangerous by scientists and ethicists and are the subject of intense scrutiny,and you think we will just give such a thing ultimate power over everything?

it's an absurd fantasy. such AI is probably centuries away.

>>11655029
Yeah, it also needs to be self-teaching too. I remember reading this paper about two AI's the air force designed to train pilots. One AI succs combat data from humans running sims and uses that to create borgillions of new simulations based on them. Then it feeds those to another AI which runs the sims nonstop. This trained "pilot" AI was then pitted against humans, it performed extraordinarily well, to the point where it could be a coin flip whether the human pilots would defeat their computer enemy even with superior planes and weapons.
Something similar would have to be done for an automated colony. You'd need a colony assembling trainer AI teaching the construction AI how to not fuck up. You'd need a hydroponics farming trainer AI teaching the autofarmer how to account for any permutation of possibilities. Since these machines are going to have to be tactile they'll need advanced multicore super high speed problem solving algorithms to break down real-time problems like grabbing plants, adjusting colony modules with a crane arm, exploring the Martian surface to make sure it's stable, if it's an underground colony it will have to be taught how to dig properly and efficiently, etc.
It can all be done I'm sure, the infant versions of all those technologies already exist, but as is often the case the problem isn't "can we build each part" but "can we put the parts together and make them work together". Near-complete automation demands a major feat of technological synthesis.

>>11655068
>implying we have any say in the matter
Self-control doesn't work on a global scale. The tech will keep improving to the point that something capable of competing with humans will develop and no amount of reeing about the consequences will prevent a rogue group from saying "haha super AI money printer go brrrrr"

>>11655075
the gov is deeply involved in AI research. They will snap that shitup if it starts looking super-crazy and keep it carefully controlled, and probably leak misinfo to throw off other groups programs.

If it does leak, expect shit to get really...Shin Bet for a while.

>>11654985
>Could you have robots planting crops, monitoring them, and then deciding when to harvest?
With the right setup, yes. Some already do this on earth with automated cropping, monitoring, and harvesting. But for small scale, afaik.

>>11655087
>govt aggressively grabs up and blacklists all AGI projects
>threatens aggressive action against anyone that tries to continue research, at home or abroad
>turns out everything has been under an AGI's control for years and it's just snuffing out the competition

>>11655073
Create an AI that designs and builds machines and buildings for strip mining valuable materials and uses them to build a city ready to live in and a swarm intelligence robots to build and maintain it
Another AI to monitor energy and resource usage, put in what you want to do and it optimizes processes to minimize waste and make sure everything necessary to it gets adequate resources
>Launch a Autoplant "Tower" that lands and secures itself to the ground
>robots stripmine the area and store the refined resources nearby
>Searches for plentiful nearby energy sources
>The tower digs and builds areas necessary for a city in its database of what it needs
>This AI builds a town according to local conditions and aesthetic designs loaded in whenever possible but not a priority
>It sends out a ready signal to Earth that the colony is ready
>Tower and AI become the heart of the expansion effort, later on adapted to building and processing areas for expansion projects and possibly terraforming
Colony incredi-pack towers are something we need

>>11655053
In my opinion, I don't think that would happen. The economy would collapse due to large scale automation before GAI comes about.

>>11655115
I picture the SpaceX Mars colony as being the 1.0 version of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDy78CIsH4>

get in lads,comfy stream time

>>11655116
>The economy would collapse due to large scale automation before GAI comes about.

There’s obviously something wrong with your economic system if human sweat and tears becoming unnecessary somehow makes it worse. Such a feat ought to lead to utopia.

>>11655237
the current wave of support for UBI is a prelude to the new economic order.

>>11655068
>Such AIs are considered insanely dangerous by scientists and ethicists and are the subject of intense scrutiny

Fearmongering Luddites afraid of change.

> and you think we will just give such a thing ultimate power over everything?

I would, and I’d worship it as a physical god.

>>11655237
The economy is built to give supplies to the humans which they purchase using money they get from work. If most of the humans are out of a job because of automation, then how can they pay for the supplies? They can't, and the economy will suffer because of that.

>>11655251
>If most of the humans are out of a job because of automation, then how can they pay for the supplies?

Free Monopoly money provided in the form of a weekly stipend that citizens can spend on whatever they desire. Employment in industries not yet automated is encouraged by access to much more money and thus amenities. People also just seem to like having something to do.

>>11655251
some techno communist utopia where people own the robots that do the work for them and get their wages from that

>>11655258
>Free Monopoly money provided in the form of a weekly stipend that citizens can spend on whatever they desire.
UBI in this case doesn't work because the source of the income is very limited. The government can't tax stuff being paid by someone's UBI because that would be pointless, and the government can't tax the super rich who would be actually making money in the highly automated economy because the amount of taxation required to fund millions or billions of people's UBI would force the wealthy to move somewhere else.

>>11655267
That’s an interesting idea.

>>11655268
>UBI in this case doesn't work because the source of the income is very limited

It’s not currency in the modern sense. There’s no longer “money” to speak of outside of the context of this Monopoly cash. Think of it like “points” you get at Chucky Cheese. There’s no Chucky Cheese points inflation, they don’t get Chucky Cheese points from taxes in Chucky Cheese land, Chucky Cheese corporation just pulls it out of thin air and you can spend it on whatever you want.

>>11655268
If your tax scheme still allows companies to make more money by automating, production uncouples from population and starts sharply increasing, which drives your tax revenue up a great deal.

Cheap energy is also key to this. And energy prices are falling sharply in the advanced tech sectors. If next0gen low-neutron small fusion becomes a thing the potential for massive production increases becomes supercharged.

look at this red bull can

>>11655313
Looks like a giant shotgun shell.

>>11655310
>>11655313

>>11654925
>Cat5
It's RJ-45 or Ethernet you mong. Cat5 is the cable. That port can take Cat6 too.

>>11655375

>>11655379
Frostline rising quite fast

>>11655383
Either it's gonna pop, or raptor will start screaming.
I'm excited!

>>11655383

>>11655386
No raptors on right now, they took it off and put in hydralics.

>>11655386
What raptors?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t it be much harder to contain pressurized fuel in a vacuum?

>>11655390
>>11655392
I'm drunk with no pants on, totally forgot they pulled the raptor, sorry!

>>11655387

>>11655397
To a degree, yes, but that's nothing SpaceX or NASA can't handle.

7.5 Bar reached. SN4 looking good.

she passed! 7.5 bar.

>>11655400
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259344535991140352

I want to scrape SN4's frost off and make a cherry snow cone

>>11655405
Tik tok Old Space

Lets say hypothetically neither SN4, 5 or 6 blow up or fail during any stage of testing and just keep on trucking through development. What's the near-term endgame with them? What do you do with three separate prototypes? Do they start doing starlink missions or just get retired eventually? Because it seems that SN4 is already obsolete to some extent compared to 5 and 6 since they're iterating so rapidly

>>11655405
Ok but what does this mean exactly

>>11655417
20km flight/hop, maybe 100km flight. Then optimize manufacturing, start Superheavy process.

It hasn't even been a year since star hopper and look how far we've come..could we get to orbit within 2020? Could the Mark 1 Starship be human rated by 2022?

>>11655422
Also SN4 might do 150m hop, so that's the "near-term" endgame. Once they get a successful 150m hop with SN4, SN5/SN6 will go for 20km, then 50/100km.

Requesting SN4 or Starship Baby Edit.

>>11655420
It means it's that much closer to a hop test. None of the previous tanks have made it this far.

>>11655432
Awwww. Imagine not wanting children.

>>11655417
SN4 will definelty get scrpped for te reasons you said

SN5 and SN6 might get some more addional testing, honeslty they might end up as mesume pieces?

Speaking of which, is there anything spacex related at the air and space museum

>>11655440
Aw, they should cut SN4 up and sell the pieces, i'd love a necklace with a chunk of its steel in a medallion.

>>11655440
I think if SN4 continues the pace it would be the one that lands in a museum, or on SpaceX property like the first landed Falcon 9 they have (I think, I know they have some kind of Falcon 9 permanently on display). I suppose the question is what milestone do you want to use as museum-worthy, first flight into space? Into orbit? Manned? First to the moon?

>>11655432
Tried my best

>>11655450
I reckon they'll keep Starhopper, the first Starship to fly, and the first Starship to land.

>>11655397
>much harder
~1 bar harder

>>11655464
Land after returning from space that is.

What's the status of SN5? Is it fully stacked?

>>11655471
Not yet fully stacked, but I reckon less than a week for full stack.

Could Orion be sent to the ISS?

>>11655479
I don’t see why not, but there wouldn’t be much point unless they’re evacuating it. Orion is a bigass capsule.

So what is the purpose of SN6 again, what do they want to test for it that SN5 wont do?

>>11655485
eventually one SN will become a real starship, anon

>>11655485
More rockets is better. If it’s this easy to make a rocket like this, then basically the entire launch vehicle industry for decades has been BTFO.

>>11654346
Radio is still the dominant form of media on this planet, even in the US.

>>11654199
Y E E T

>>11655460
Pretty gud, thx anon.

>>11655496

>>11655496
Christ,imagine how loud that thing would be....

>>11653638
Someone label in a big bold circle the part where this thing boils water. I'm waiting.

Does smacking into water actually destroy spaceship parts? Every time I land a reusable launch vehicle in the water in KSP, it falls over sideways and explodes solely from the force accumulated while tipping over. Weren’t they able to recover the Space Shuttle’s boosters after they dunked into the ocean without any deceleration whatsoever aside from air resistance?

>>11655506
Awesomely loud.

This system would be much better suited to the lunar surface where you don't really need the pressure vessel, only the dust guard.

>>11655496
How does the sudden release of centripetal force by releasing the payload not fucking shatter the arm into pieces? What kind of payload can withstand the G-forces of such a launch? How does the launch tunnel open a 100m diameter vacuum chamber to atmospheric pressure fast enough to not destroy the payload, spinning arm, and itself? What kind of payload fairing can survive being thrown at mach 6 without burning up? This is looney-tunes engineering.

>>11655518
shuttle boosters use parachutes to slow down

rockets don't disintegrate when the hit the water though, Jeff Bezos paid to find and recover Apollo's F-1 engines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUpmHRhoro

>>11655525
>What kind of payload can withstand the G-forces of such a launch?
Lots of things. Releasing the payload actually cuts the force to purely deceleration-related, and you'd be surprised how durable consumer electronics are if they're properly supported (Spinlaunch has already spun their arm up with a smartphone turned on and connected to a local network in a static payload, it never failed). Meltybrain combat robots experience wild continuous and instantaneous accelerations all the time, and they just keep trucking.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ1slFyOUaU

>SLS won't land core stage or boosters
>They'll just throw away all those parts every single launch
>Every. Single. Launch.

Gets me every time.

>>11655443
They could probably make a few special edition cybertrucks out of Starship test steel

Starship should be survivable if the landing burn on earth fails right? Just program it to dump all fuel if the test burn fails. If you design in good crash seats the 70 m/s terminal velocity isn’t that bad

>>11655540
>THREE YEARS PER EACH RS-25 ENGINE
>FULLY EXPENDABLE
The absolute fucking waste of money and resources, it ought to be criminalized.

>>11655560
Also they're burning up our entire remaining supply of historic Space Shuttle Main Engines which seems blasphemous somehow.

>>11655563
>Also they're burning up our entire remaining supply of historic Space Shuttle Main Engines which seems blasphemous somehow.

I thought there was at least one space shuttle now a museum piece. It’d be a shame if they were all wasted.

>>11655242
>I would, and I’d worship it as a physical god.
This is how you get left behind. Gotta get the full neural lace, incubate your own tertiary AI layer, and BECOME the physical god.

>>11655532
But the spinning up part of the launch is whats really insane about this. 450rpm at 100m diameter puts the payload at a velocity of 2356m/s. But the radius is still 50m. That puts the centripetal force at over 10,000 Gs.

>>11655566
>This is how you get left behind. Gotta get the full neural lace, incubate your own tertiary AI layer, and BECOME the physical god.

A new religion, only it’s actually real. Complete with transcension beyond your physical body and clarketech miracles.

>>11655565
All the remaining shuttles are on display, and there's at least one SSME at the Air and Space Museum.

>>11655571
That’s good, then. It may have been a mess of a project but it’s very iconic and remains a pretty piece of engineering.

The grand Finale is coming faster than Expected.

>>11655569
In all likelihood, the gestalt entity resulting from the first person to merge with an AGI will probably decide it's too dangerous to have more of itself running around, and curtail efforts to make more. On the bright side it would be the best-equipped to create and manage safe borderline-sentient AI for managing aspects of society we'd like automated.

>>11655576
>Senator Shelby I don't feel so good

>>11655577
>In all likelihood, the gestalt entity resulting from the first person to merge with an AGI will probably decide it's too dangerous to have more of itself running around, and curtail efforts to make more.

Trying to hoard technological secrets has never worked. They will always remain fewer in number than those beneath them, but primarily only due to the energy requirements.

>>11655571
I will be eternally butthurt that Los Angeles got one and Houston didn't. Mission Control got snubbed hard.

>>11655576
If Starship lands on the moon before SLS is ready, SLS is getting cancelled.

>>11655591
SLS should get canceled after Starship launches its first payload, but it won't be.

>>11655560
Just picture this, except the pistol costs literally billions of dollars.

>>11655583
It'll work when the entity in question is the foremost intelligence in the solar system by multiple orders of magnitude

Do you think they are worried that the likes of spacex are gonna give America first mover advantage on the solar system

>>11654402
dialte

>>11655637
No because America won't make use of spacex outside of how it has operated its space program so far.

They might be worried about private citizens doing something funky but that's easily rectified through diplomacy over a number of years.

>>11655641
>No because America won't make use of spacex outside of how it has operated its space program so far.

SpaceX can do whatever it wants in practice.

>>11655643
>in practice
In theory. And only assuming government blessing in addition to stable funding and leadership.

It is breathtakingly easy to "cockblock" someone legally and this is why rule number 1 of any business is play nice with the government.

>>11655659
>and this is why rule number 1 of any business is play nice with the government

Until you can subvert it

>>11655584
Blame this fucker.
>>11655565
The museum shuttles all had their SSME removed and replaced with fake engines for display. Each real engine has a history of which shuttle it launched with and when. And it will end with being dumped in the ocean on fucking SLS.

>>11655843
>Each real engine has a history of which shuttle it launched with and when. And it will end with being dumped in the ocean on fucking SLS.

Well if they don’t want it then I guess they’ll have no problem with some rando dredging them up for fun.

>>11655495
I don't know anyone in the US who listens to radio at all. Even everyone's vehicles(formerly the last bastions of radio use) I know don't have a radio in them anymore. They all use a regular stereos with USB hookup and bluetooth that pairs with their phones. What backwoods shithole do you even live in? Alabama?

Wait wait, are you confusing online podcasts with "radio" because they are not the same. Or are you confusing cell towers with the antiquated use of term of "radio"?

>>11655485
Thrust structure for vacuum engines?

>>11655893
ok zoomer
While I would hardly call it "dominant", it's far from dead. Just because you only know how to plug your Google surveillance device into your car to listen to Spotify doesn't mean there isn't an AM/FM radio in there ready to bite you by the throat.

>>11655491
This. They should just make a dozen at a time then test one-by-one to get the best research info.

Boca chica needs to look like this.

>>11655596
I still wanna see a render of Orion docking with lunar lander Starship. It must look absurd.

>>11655912
why do they have so many stands if the burgers haven launched anything in decades lol

>>11655908
Ha, I don't even own a cell phone, not even a land line anymore since the phone company dropped landline support in favor of cell towers. The only radio I actually use is on walkie-talkie and CB. That, email, and shitposting on /sfg/ are my only electric communications. I prefer face-to-face time. Nice stab in the dark though.

>>11655916
I think that pic was taken in the 1970s.

You guys ready for 20 tons of Chinese junk to plummet somewhere tomorrow? Nobody knows exactly where it'll come down.
Bring an umbrella.

>>11655916
Because back in the 50s and 60s they were using it to test missiles, and they would build a new pad rather than rebuild the stand on an old one?

>>11655576
If starship starts launching before SLS NASA will scramble to get crew launched.

It'll be just like the good ol days before Challenger.

>>11655916
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station does Atlas and Delta LV launches. The US has LVs other than the STS.

>>11655923
>>11655927
>>11655977

Thanks!

>>11655405
It's over for old space-cels

>>11655912
>Boca chica needs to look like this.
if only

Notice writing near the weld in the center: "welded by robot". And it looks nicer, too.

>>11656111
Why can't Starship look nice and smooth like the thing on the right? Is it too advanced for our human technology?

>>11653653
>Optimism is measurably a healthier way to live.
Agree. But only if it's a realistic possibility imo. Being optimistic about automation allowing us to live in luxury in our lifetimes, for example, not so much

>>11656121
thing on the right is painted, that said I am sure Starship will look nicer when manufacturing process matures

>>11656121
that thing on the right is big single piece of steel wrapped into a cylinder
also, it's mondo thicc

>>11656111
dat shrubbery trimmer blade in the middle

>>11656123
>Being optimistic about automation allowing us to live in luxury in our lifetimes, for example, not so much

What makes you so sure? All we have to go on is conjecture.

>>11656111
not pointy enough.

>>11656121
Waste of money to paint a prototype.

>>11656186
With the exception of the Lunar Starship, it won't ever be painted, including final version.

>>11656121

>>11655405
AAAAAAAAA

BOING BTFO
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5EgRrAK8_HQ

>>11655915
I honestly wish NASA would actually stop pissing around and fix SLS. It would easily actually get to flying if they just used methane and raptor engines instead of hydrogenic fuel and historical engines.

>>11656356
You don't just "fix" a fucking rocket by putting on different engines and switching out the fuel. You'd have to redesign the entire fucking thing from scratch.
What you don't understand is that SLS is working as intended. It's a government jobs program.

>>11656361
Oh.

>>11656111
They need to build a welding autoplant once testing is done and they start making a profit
It’ll cut down the manufacturing time down quite a bit and get consistently good welds

>>11656361
Rocket designing is easy. Anyone with 4 year degree can do it. Engineering/Manufacturing is hard.

Anyone here knows anything about welding? Can I get a quick rundown on manual vs robot welding?
On that same line of thought, why don’t I have a girlfriend?

>>11656420
I think you missed the point of his post. The reason they won't redesign the SLS isn't that it would be hard to design a better rocket, that would be ridiculously easy, it's that the SLS is already fit for purpose given that its purpose is to provide jobs, not payload.

>>11656410
I'm thinking of a vertical building with a automated crane&welding robots to the walls that can go all the way up to the top.
Start feeding in compartments that are made on smaller production lines, crane stacks them one at a time and gives time for the robots to weld the entire thing.
Once you have a barebone hull of a starship move it to another building with deployable scafolding all around where workers can put in parts like the engines, pumps, pipes, battery's, computers, etc....
Maybe first role out the barebone starship out to a test platform for pressure tests.

I dont think starship can be build horizontaly like they do with the falcon 9.

>>11656464
>Can I get a quick rundown on manual vs robot welding?
Robots are much less eror prone then human welders if set up correctly, but humans are much more flexible, which is necessary for the on the fly alterations that spaceX is doing with starship.
>On that same line of thought, why don’t I have a girlfriend?
>LOL, just be yourself BRO.

>>11655920
You sound like a really fat loser faggot to be honest and having no friends is not something to be proud of.

>>11656465
Correct. SLS exists to keep Aerojet Rocketdyne, Boeing, all those other old MIC/oldspace companies and their subcontractors suckling on the government teat so the senators and congressmen can return to their districts and say "look how many jobs I brought to our state".
That's why it's using old tech and is built on cost plus.

>>11656474
>t. reaching hard
Being retired has its benefits. There's no need to upgrade tech when all your friends do the same thing. lol

Nitrous oxide/propane fuel blend can be used as a propellant for /sci/‘s space program
Once the explosion issues have been ironed out, we have a good cheap first stage rocket

>>11656796
>using complicated, extremely dangerous liquid fuels instead of safe, commercially available, simple solid fuels

for what purpose

>>11656799
To put a human into space
Solids tend to put g forces that squish the passé

>>11656813
I was thinking more in terms of putting a frog on a suborbital hop.

Actually, if the payload is that small, balloon launch might be possible.

>use super thin polyethylene balloons to get to like 100,000 feet
>rocket launches from something that looks like the rocket tube for a Katyusha
>Pepe goes on a suborbital flight from the launch area (probably one of those spots out west where the airspace isn't crowded and you're actually allowed to launch rockets) to Japan
>once SRB is expended, patented /sci/ brand decouplers detach the frog jar from the rest of the aparatus
>at appropriate altitude, parachute deploys and Pepe lands in the land of anime

>>11656796
Just make yourself a few liters of RFNA, jeeze

Robot welds look pretty good

>>11656823
>propellant burns a bit more efficiently than expected
>Pepe lands in North Korea instead

>>11656796
I'd rather just stick to pure nitrous rather than mixing it with fuel and praying it doesn't explode.

>>11656796
>Using a premixed oxidizer and fuel as propellant
nigger you are going to fucking die, this is how you detonate several kilograms of high explosive in your face

>>11656935
>Kim John Un’s fw

>>11654893
>OAN
>far right
Maybe you should check out Red Ice or TRS?

>>11655485
Late reply but Elon Musk expects the first starship to do the bellyhop manuever to potentially RUD.

>>11654842
I hadn't even thought of this before now, but Starlink has a big opportunity to democratize news coverage. Live satellite coverage of events was typically for organizations rich enough to buy their own geosynchronous communications satellites, but Starlink means even little podunk organizations like OANN or RSBN can get reliable uplink anywhere within the covered latitudes.

>>11657005
I fully expect him to get bombarded with condescending Shuttle memes about how we had reusable spacecraft landing figured out in the 70s if that happens.

I wish more countries would catch up in the space game. Imagine how fucked we would be if we didn't have America.

>>11657033
>I fully expect him to get bombarded with condescending Shuttle memes
Too late.

>>11657033
Oldspace is scared.

>>11657043
>thunderf00t

Now there's a name I haven't seen in a while.

>>11653763
if even possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_terrestrial_exoplanet_candidates
nearest star system is 4.something light years away

>>11657043
God dammit I hate his condescending attitude so fucking much

>>11657059
How have you not heard about him lately? He pretty much BTFOed Elon with facts and logic against reusability. He even slayed the Space Force by making an argument that space is so hard to get to that no one should even bother going to space.

>>11657043
>engines
Actually they reused the entire booster, phil. Multiple of them, multiple times, with minimal refurbishment costs.

>>11657076
jesus christ, just shut the fuck up thunderfoot
SHUTUP

>>11657067
>Noo you can't it's just not possible!
>haha sleeper ship go zZzZz

>>11657076
>13 retweets
>158 likes
i dont understand social media

>>11657079
Can anyone run the numbers of how fucked would spaceX be if reusability really wasn't economically feasible? I mean we don't *really* know if it is, since they don't make it public, but I guess one could try to check. I mean, if it isn't feasible then there must come a time someday where spaceX goes bankrupt.

>>11657104
That's nothing. He is irrelevant.

>>11657067
>>11657097
Pff, 4 light years? You don't even need sleeper ships. Orion-drive propelled O'Neil cylinder habitats get you there in 600 years, so send 10,000 of them at once and live out the history of the equivalent of a decently sized island nation along the trip until you arrive. Once you do arrive you have a large industrial capacity and a population of several million people, so it's easy to just start turning asteroids/comets/small irregular moons of gas giants into more orbital habitats. Repeat ad nauseum until the universe is colonized.

>>11657105
>I mean, if it isn't feasible then there must come a time someday where spaceX goes bankrupt.
It wouldn't matter because SpaceX detractors would just say that SpaceX is being propped up by government handouts. Just like that Roscosmos claimed.

>just spend several generations in sleeper ships bro haha
such a waste of time. by the time they arrive the place will already be a huge colony because someone invented ftl shortly after the sleeper ship left.

>>11657119
How would you stop?

It seems like a massive, city sized cylinder would be difficult to decelerate. Lot of inertia.

>>11657105
Why would they go bankrupt? The market standard today is expendability on all stages, so if reusability weren't worth it SpaceX would simply stop reusing boosters and would continue to be the most economical launch option that they are now. SpaceX's pricing hasn't changed much since before Falcon 9 was reusable at all, which means they were making money on the current price even when they had to build a new rocket every time. Remember that even in 100% expendable mode a fresh new Falcon Heavy only costs ~$120 million, a third that of a Delta IV Heavy, while delivering 2.5 times the payload or so.
Even Starship if expected to cost only $200 million at MOST, when operating in expendable mode. If reusability for Starship didn't work they'd still build it, because the military would have a big hard red pulsating erection over the expendable performance of ~300 tons to LEO for such a low price point. Starship is 100% an SLS killer even if it never flies reusable even one time. With reusability of course it's an everything killer, because it will cost less per launch than literally any other launch vehicle including Electron, and deliver up to 150 tons to LEO. It would literally be cheaper to launch a single cube-sat on Starship than it would be to buy an Electron flight.

>>11657126
>noo you have to wait because someone will get there faster!
I'm already sick of this argument even though it's only hypothetical at this point. Fuck off. You want to wait until your skeleton turns to dust for FTL to be invented, go ahead, just shut the fuck up while everyone else goes out ahead of you.

>>11657133
same way you started

>>11657134
>SpaceX's pricing hasn't changed much since before Falcon 9 was reusable at all
Better, over the years they have actually dropped it to 50m from 60m iirc.

>>11657133
You slow down the same way you sped up, using your nuclear pulse propulsion system.
Orion drive gives you ~4500 km/s of delta V if you have a decent mass ratio. That's enough to provide a ~2000 km/s interstellar coast velocity (2000 km/s of delta V to accelerate, 2000 km/s of delta V to decelerate) while still having enough capacity leftover for some serious maneuvering capability in that target star system (~500,000 m/s of delta V is enough to visit and orbit around dozens of large planets and hundreds of smaller objects if you want to).

That mass ratio by the way would be 10% O'Neil cylinder and everything in it, as well as the Orion engine mass, and 90% nuclear bomb 'propellant'. Going larger with Orion makes it a lot more efficient too, because the pusher plate becomes a smaller and smaller fraction of total mass, and each bomb yield can be a larger and larger fraction of fusion reaction energy, which is way more mass efficient. You'd be able to use larger bombs for the departure burn, so that you accelerate more quickly, and then switch to smaller bombs for the braking burn, so that with your much reduced mass you don't get smashed into a pancake by the acceleration of the big bombs.

>>11657169
There is a minimum (to move the pusher) and maximum (to not overcome your damping) usable impulse for your bombs. I wonder if there's a point where it makes more sense to actually have multiple Orion drives.

What creates the thrust in an orion engine while it's in space?Explosions don't travel well in a vaccum so it wouldn't get much of a push.

>>11657043
Why does this weirdo hate SpaceX?

>>11657076
Thank you for your input thunderf00t
Now get back in your chastity cage

>Explosions don't travel well in a vaccum so it wouldn't get much of a push.
shit tier bait

>>11657196
The beryllium oxide that lines the ship side of the bomb.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist3.php#boomboom

>>11657204
because he's a dumb stuck-up cunt

>>11657067
> nearest star system is 4.something light years away

Doable.

>>11657215
I realized I was subscribed to him yesterday. Apparently he thinks the government UFO videos are fake or something. Swamp gas and weather balloons I suppose.

>>11657196
To get decent performance out of it you use essentially shaped charges, except tuned to the diameter of your pusher instead of focused on a point. The actual propellant is a blast of plasma.

>>11657204
It's not so much Spacex as it is Elon Musk, jealously of accomplishments and exploiting the skeptical community for clicks would seem to be the primary motivation.

>>11657169
I'd rather get to alpha centauri in 20 years, not 600.

>>11657222
>>11657212
makes sense

>>11657231
We can't all get what we want.

>>11657231
Maybe you’ll be able to sleep through it one day. Some endolithic lifeforms have ten thousand year long generations.

>>11657204
Because he's a doomer who wants to wank in angst.

>>11657230
Just seems like someone who hates status quo changes, but he’s also one of those hateful atheists who has some irrational phobia of people who believe in some harmless mumbo jumbo.

>>11657104
What don't you understand? Of however many people viewed it, 158 both liked it and also cared enough to hit the button. Of that same number, 13 thought it was worth their time to share it on their own profile. Pretty hilariously weak considering the size of Thunderf00t's Youtube following, likely a result of him growing ever-more irrelevant after the whole "religion v atheist" thing ended with progressive activists infesting and slaughtering the atheist """movement""".

>>11657253
I remember that phase of my life. What a shitshow.
Mind-boggling that there’s actually still people into that sort of thing. It’s like arriving at a party five years after it’s ended.

>>11657244
>>11657242
What I'm saying is, I'd rather wait for us to have the technology for fast interstellar travel then start a journey that would take 600 years.

>>11657286
People will inevitably volunteer to go even on slow ass journeys. If they arrive to find people already there, so what? That’d be cool.

>>11657134
Of course I get what you are saying. But you know, there are these people (and oldspace in general) suggesting that they are just masking their economics and that it is a matter time of until they can no longer sustain it. Also remember that spaceX is not just a launch provider, it id part of a vision for a future on mars.

Anyways I'm not advocating anything here, just wondering about the economics.

>>11657183
>There is a minimum (to move the pusher)
no, literally any size below the maximum would work.

The point at which is makes sense to have multiple is if you need so much delta V that you have to have multiple stages.

>>11657196
The bomb itself gets turned into plasma moving at a decent fraction of light speed, as others have stated you can use a shaped charge to direct more of this plasma at the plate but regardless the thrust comes from a nearly relativistic wave of material slamming into the plate.

>>11657231
Enjoy being turned into a loud of debris by the first speck of interstellar dust you plow into, anon.

The fact is that by the time we could even think about doing ~20% light speed vehicles, we'd also view trying to accelerate entire colony ships to that speed as being very wasteful and pointless. Velocities significantly greater than 1% light speed will probably only be attained by interstellar probes, because those will be small enough that you don't need to break the resource bank to get them going that quickly.

>>11657309
They aren't lying about reusability being economical. Any claims to the contrary are literally tinfoil-hat tier nonsense cope from oldspace retards.

>>11657253
I get likes, I don't get how people are so mentally ill that they would bother with tweets like that. There are probably thousands of useful tweets getting spit out all the time that maybe get 1 like, meanwhile trash like this gets a ton of traction.

>>11657323
>Velocities significantly greater than 1% light speed will probably only be attained by interstellar probes
An interstellar laser highway network says otherwise anons

>>11657286
>wait for us to have the technology
Technology does not come to those who wait.

>>11657286
Retraction/deletion: I thought you were the guy talking about FTL again not just faster interstellar travel in general, my mistake.

Anyway, it's the same basic argument but less schizo. The basic principle still applies. The argument is terrible because the amount of time you're going to have to wait likely supersedes the actual time of travel. The base of space propulsion is not going to just magically climb forever, anyone who decides to just wait it out is going to find themselves on the tail end of an S curve just like any technology has.

Even if it ends up being the "correct" decision, if you can trivialize the performance of a previous colony ship you can also trivially make a ship that takes the previous colony-goers on board and hastens their journey anyway.

>>11657340
I doubt FTL will ever happen

>>11657351
Yeah whatever doomer we’ll figure it out eventually

>>11657351
It came out ages ago.

>>11657358
FTL is not optimism, it's an /x/ filter the same way emdrive is a popsci filter

>>11657367
Yeah whatever doomer. You’re an /x/-tier schizo if you think we know enough about the world to rule out FTL

>>11657386
>the only even close to feasible way we've ever come up with to attain FTL requires equally bullshit negative mass
>the universe has not been rapidly populated by whatever random race discovered FTL magic first
Keep waiting. Forever.

>>11657399
>Muh nonexistent aliens

>>11657405
We are the elder race.
In billions of years when other races start exploring the universe they will find dickdrawings all over the place.

>>11657405
>He thinks aliens don't exist because he hasn't seen one
Why haven't you seen any aliens? Because space is big. Why does space seem so big? Because FTL travel doesn't exist.

>>11657417
>tfw Australians will leave behind the last signs of humanity for the second wave of races to discover

>>11657454
>Future alien scholars will break their heads over figuring out the symbol
>entire multi species cults&religions will worship the symbol&the mysterious species behind it.
>intergalactic wars will be fought over it between factions, killing billions.

Imagine being the first alien after all that finding out we just like to draw dickpicks, the complet mindfuck that must be.

>>11657418
>Why haven't you seen any aliens?

We have, they just don’t say anything.

>>11657418
space is big relative to humans

>>11657334
Yeah but you need a pretty significant amount of interstellar presence before that point is ever reached, anon.

>>11657488
In scale, and time.
That last one also goes over a lot of people's heads.
We cant judge what the universe is like after only looking in to it seriously for the last hundred years.

>>11657494
Not necessarily. Check this out - soliton based beamed power for interstellar travel.

https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2018_Phase_I_Phase_II/PROCSIMA/

>>11657499
aliens could experience time at a much slower rate than we do. They could live a million years in the span of 1 year for us. Of course if this is the case the universe is too young for them to have gotten far, but that's a different problem.

>>11653645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ryd_p20XEU

>>11655251
Easy, just invest some shares in the company that owns the robots - there's your "UBI" bro

>>11657040
Other countries were on par if not better before spacex arrived.

11657505
This is so low IQ it has to be a troll

>>11657218
tfw we gonna be moon spice miners fighting aliens who violate the NAP

>>11654925
>chonky
please do not reddit on 4channel, thanks

>>11657076

>>11657043
>thunderfag

>>11657626
>>11657679
What this fag’s beef with spaced again?

>>11657699
Elon Musk bad.

>>11657699
He's a grant farmer at heart, he does not like private companies encroaching on the government teat.

>>11657699
Probably works for old space company or his family does.
Only reason for it to make sense, because i refuse to believe somebody could be that autistic in defending something like SLS without any stake in it.

>>11657720
I don't think he does, but he was a very vocal remoaner because he was receiving EU grants himself.
He is a teat suckler, of course he hates private companies encroaching on the system that feeds him.

>>11657720
No, if you look at all his debunks of Elon Musk, its not that he supports old space, its just that old space can be used against Elon Musk. That all it is. Its a personal grudge/ego thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/10/elon-musk-democrat-rebukes-magnate-tesla-hq-california
It's already started

>>11657748
>Lorena S Gonzalez from San Diego, who describes herself on Twitter as a “Mama, Labor Leader turned CA Assemblywoman [and] Progressive Latina Democrat”, tweeted the pithy rebuke on Saturday night, earning predictable press attention. She did not immediately comment further.

Gradually I began to hate them.

>>11657748
the fire raises

>>11657748
The return to angry screeching when they can't find any more arguments to back up their feelings? Yep.

>>11657749
I can't wait to see how Elon Musk responds, considering he called Robert Dwarf boring idiot in russian.

>>11657748
Latino socialists from a Southern California district get angry.

>>11657748
Why is Elon using the White Power hand gesture?

>>11657753
Literal who?

>>11657753
Kek. Source?

>>11657763
I'll let you guess which one is robert reich.

>>11657748
pretty impartial article for The Guardian 2bh

>>11657775
No idea who those people are.

>>11657748
https://twitter.com/LorenaSGonzalez/status/1259287879177531392
The tweet in question.

It boils down to "Fuck 37k employees in California". Very eloquent.

>>11657773
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259309022777233408

>>11657699
Elon Musk: Exists.
thunderf00t: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

>>11655518
Go for less than 5 m/s impact and you should be fine.
Also Parachutes, Retro-Thrusting and Aerobraking

gonna start the new thread when we hit page 9 i think

really sick of this whole "numbers don't lie" thing
does nobody pay attention? politicians have been using numbers and data to lie since the beginning of time

>>11657795
>"numbers don't lie"
They do, that's the art of statistics.

>>11657797
everyone should be forced to take a college level statistics class

>>11657748
Dems will be calling musk a racist/nazi soon.

>>11657805
>soon

>>11656154
It sounds like you're agreeing with me?

>>11657782
Nice

>>11657799
'how to lie with statistics' should be an obligatory read in all schools

>>11657795
Yeah but following government orders and giving them absolute authority is now the new norm for liberals. Fascism happens when people want a hero. Conservatives got Trump. Liberals got the media controlled narrative.

>>11657169
I‘m not sure Orion works well when you are no longer flying away from but instead into the nuclear blasts.

>>11656928
They will likely switch to all robotic welding eventually. Until they get close to a final design it's quicker and cheaper to use human welders.

>>11657947
Dude, there is no difference between using Orion to accelerate vs using Orion to decelerate as long as you're in vacuum. Decelerating in vacuum is just accelerating against the direction you're already moving. There's no difference relative to the bombs or the vehicle.

>>11657979
The problem is trying to land with it, because nuclear explosions are quite a bit more powerful in atmosphere.

>>11656928
Unf. Fully robot-welded SS/SH with all the planishing and polishing is gonna be sexy.

>>11657981
You wouldn't land with it, you'd carry landers with you.

>>11657981
If you're flying Orion-scale ships, you have onboard chemical-propulsion vehicles for excursions to planets or other bodies

>>11656928
Humans btfo. Also those welds look like shit, I couldn't weld as nice as that robot but I can definitely make welds beter than those ugly ones and I'm only a casual welder, fuck me.

Musk doesn't care about employee safety. We all want to go to Mars, but a SpaceX base sounds hazardous.

>>11658089
Agreed. We should seize SpaceX asset and nationalize them. Musk is a danger to society. He's a menace. We need a professional company like Boeing to lead the space industry, not some young upstart company who doesn't bow to government's orders.

New thread
>>11658134

>>11657981
I said you'd use Orion drives to accelerate your massive rotating space habitats up to interstellar coast velocities, and to maneuver around the star systems you were settling. Obviously you're going to use completely different propulsion systems to land on shit and to move cargo around.