/sci/ - Science & Math

Weather =/= climate numskull

>>11652209
This weather has never occurred this late in the Spring. Account for it, please. I'm genuinely curious.

>>11652224
The title of 'Global Warming' is misleading, climate change is a more accurate descriptor.

Melting ice bodies and hotter land masses will change the jet stream and alter weather patterns. However regardless of the wider climate trajectory, freak weather anomalies will continue to happen.

That's why it's a hard sell, climate change will put a multiplayer on certain weather events, but may not explicitly cause them - only change / amplify them.

>>11652242
>multiplayer
You mean multiplier?

>>11652224
I remember maybe 15 years ago it snowing in mid May in Michigan. Not that crazy

>>11652281
Southern NJ isn't Michigan. Much less erratic weather and quite a bit warmer.

>>11652251
oop, yea

>>11652283
lol I thought that was lake michigan on the right. Wasn't looking close enough

>>11652288
lol

>>11652242
>climate change is a more accurate descriptor
It had to be when they realized it wasn't warming

I hope you warmingcucks are right soon. I want my snowless winters and coastal elites blowing bubbles under water NOW

It always amazes me there are people who don't understand the concept of an average yet somehow are able to use the internet.

>>11652296
>wasn't warming
what an odd thing to say

>>11652306
When did we get our first weather satellite again? I'm supposed to trust a few imprecise, archaic thermometers in a few select locations over what we have now?

is green the sexy math thing

>>11652314
Error margins in the past were greater but no where near enough to explain the current warming trend. Temperature proxies also tell the same story. You seem interested in the topic, why not actually educate yourself instead of just believing whatever makes you feel good?

>>11652315
That's rain, but only because the cold front hasn't reached those locations yet.

>>11652201
One of the effects of anthropogenic climate change is an increase in the frequency and severity of freak weather, like this.

>>11652365
But as we know from millions of years ago, the temperature difference between the tropics and the poles was much less than it is today, so global warming should actually make things more uniform and predictable.

it's called 'climate change,' not 'global warming,' faggot.

>>11652392
They're two different concepts. But the thing is, May snow in NYC has to be compatible with both concepts.

>>11652365
source: buzzfeed

>>11652201
There isn't enough of it.

>>11652373
We're not there yet. We have a bit of warming to go still.

>>11652306
>150 years
Today it was 50. Yesterday it was 48. Ice age by next month.

>>11652201
not sure why climate denial is so strong in the US (multi-billion dollar corporations in the fossil fuel industry i guess?) but literally no other country is like this...

>>11652224
Where I live it was super warm all winter and it didn't even snow which I have never experienced before. Account for that.

>>11652314
These aren't cavemen. Even earlier than this humans had a massive trade network spanning the globe all with wind powered ships and nothing to navigate with but simple instruments and hand drawn maps. You think they didn't know how to write down the fucking temperature (which is critical information for sailors)?

>>11652373
Why would climate change give us the same kind of climate we had millions of years ago? We weren't pumping millions of tonnes of CO2 per year into the air back then.

>>11652937

>No other country is like this

That doesn't say a lot. Most countries, namely developing, benefit from the recognition of climate change. The people who run developed countries also benefit even if their subjects don't.

>>11652937
>>11652989
Turns out the answer to democracy is anti-intellectualism. If you keep enough of the populace ignorant and stupid you can control an entire nation. America's political system has utterly no defense against this simply because most people would much rather be lazy, ignorant and stupid than actually put any work into improving themselves.

>>11653011

It's not even that people are lazy, think of an intellectual you disagree with. This man spends all of his spare time thinking about and studying politics and he is still wrong. How is Joe who works 7 and commutes 2 hours a day supposed to understand and come to a well-rounded opinion on geopolitics, military policy, economic policy, national character, race and sex realism, constitution of the state, firearm ownership, state prohibition of vices (porn, drugs, cigarettes, etc.), and so on? He can't, to rule is a profession like any other and it wouldn't be equally well performed even if everyone had all day to learn it, but that's its own rabbit hole.

>>11653011
>>11653027
He's right in terms of subduing the populace. This is (kind of) the reason why there will always be a class divide, for instance. Middle/working class people don't know how to "make it". They focus on the "wrong" things that don't end up making them a lot of money. They're also not part of that elite group that has all the connections so it's not really their fault. The truth is, the average joe like us don't NEED to know these things. I always imagine this world as a giant chessboard and we're all pieces played between the billionaires and the people in power.

1/10th of 1 degree. Dems get you're tax dollars some other way and stop abusing scientific data

>>11652201
>How does the theory of Global Warming account for this, /sci/?
Pretty easily, and this event shows how much worse it's getting. As global warming increases, that means there's greater energy in larger warmer air masses, and when those masses surge north, they displace the ever-smaller cold masses over the poles, knocking the cold masses farther south than before.

Do you understand?

Liberals: It's hot today, this is proof of climate change

Also liberals: It's cold today, we can't rely on a single data point

>>11652209
While you're not wrong, you need to repeat that to leftist climate activists who scream the world is doomed each time there is a hot weather event. Do you call them out or do you keep quiet?

>>11652242
Climate change is too generic. The climate has always been changing regardless of human activity or even human existence. Human induced climate change is a better term but that's not as catchy or marketable, which is far more important than accuracy.

>>11653335
H uman
I nduced
C limate
C hange

If you could find two more terms starting with U and P, you could make it HICCUP

USA go home, you are drunk

>>11652224
Just because you haven't lived for longer than two decades doesn't mean something has never happened before. I live at a latitude lower than Spain and have had snow in early June. Sure the 90s-00s it was extremely rare and weather was warmer and drier but shit ebbs and flows. If local conditions allow for certain weather, it's gonna happen regardless of calendar date.
>>11652242
It's also a hard sell because the planet and sun are massive systems, that doubt of anthropogenic causes are primary. Also while there are huge industrial powers thumbing their nose at hippy protocols, Joe Schmo Suburbanite is Literally Hitler for mowing his lawn. It is also infuriating when some rich fucks with the most benefits of post-industrial civilization preaching to "average joes" to make sacrifices.

>>11652201
More extreme weather events is accurately captured in climate change models

>>11652201
>warmer air
>air becomes more a pushover when warm
>this allows chad fronts to move in
>stronk weather dominates virgin plebs more

t. I used to be a weather technician

>>11653342
>H uman
>I nduced
>C limate
>C hange
U nder
P erforms
There's your HICCUP.

>>11652314
We don't even need weather satellites, there are many temperature proxies we can use. For example, ice caps over the ocean prevent dust blown from the land to reach the ocean floor. The dust that does eventually settle on the bottom of the ocean below an ice cap is very different from the dust that settles on the bottom of the ocean on open water. Therefore drilling down in the sediment near the polar ice caps gives us a very good indication of how the polar caps have increased and decreased in size over several million years.

Using this we have measured that at no time in the last 2 and a half million years has the polar ice cap been this small. What is the reason for this Mr Smart Man McSmartypants?

Where did anyone get the idea that climate WOULDN'T change? As soon as you look beyond the myopic time scale of human civilization, you see that Earth's climate has never been stable. Hot, cold, wet, dry, the Sahara is a jungle, then it's a desert, someday a jungle again, alternating chaotically. Even if the climate is now changing due to human activity, climate change was inevitable anyway. So why get your undies in a bunch? Learn to adjust to change because that is the kind of universe we live in.

>>11654009
>look beyond the myopic time scale of human civilization
Anon, found your problem. You seem to be under the impression that humans can view any time period beyond their own adulthood, let alone all of human history and god forbid anything beyond that.

This is literally one of the worst climates in Earth's history for how cold it is, but we'll be Venus any day now!

>>11654009
>Even if the climate is now changing due to human activity, climate change was inevitable anyway. So why get your undies in a bunch?
Brown people living in islands might have to move if the climate changes. Wouldn't want to inconvenience the brown people, would you?

>>11652925
dude STFU you moron. 150 years is a fine sample size, idiot. also we have ways of determining xoimya before that

>>11654049
Nah, assuming the increase in CO2 per year doesn't change, Earth's atmospheric CO2 percentage will be the same as Venus' in about 860,000 to 720,000 years.

>>11654213
Well, first of all, Earth will NEVER be Venus, until the Sun starts going red giant, secondly, this fucking planet needs to warm the hell up a LOT more than it has. I wonder if humans wiping out the megafauna and tearing up all the vegetation for agriculture is the reason this interglacial is noticeably colder than the past like four.

>>11654213
We'd run out of fossil fuels long before then.

>>11654255
This. There isn't enough carbon on the planet to turn Earth into Venus.

According to paleontologists 150 million years from now, we're just the Permian–Triassic Extinction 2 -Electric Boogaloo.

Our fossils won't be found, due to burial rituals and excavations of what would have been our fossils (for our historic reasons).

>>11652980
the earth had huge reptilian metabolic engines and a few cataclysmic disasters doing it before. humans pretty much streamlined all of it.

>>11654274
Humanity will leave plenty of other things behind that will mark our passing.
Exploited resources, our carbon footprint, geo-engineering like massive strip mines and artificial islands, rubble of cities, decay product of elements that don't naturally occur, etc.

>>11654266
but are there enough microbiology labs to turn it into a falling ice ball again?

>>11654275
That's not correct. The true answer is that nobody has any fucking clue why CO2 fluxuates so wildly over geologic time. The general assumption is that volcanoes shit it out and algae sequester it.

>>11654286
The Earth has been cooling since it's formation. It doesn't need any help to become an ice ball. It needs help to avoid an icy grave.

>>11654294
>It doesn't need any help to become an ice ball
but can we accelerate it at will? yes or no?

>>11654301
Yes. And it seems from current trends that we MIGHT have a shot of jumping out of the current ice age, but I doubt even that. Global industrial civilization is already winding down and it appears the human species is teetering on extinction due to an entire string of massive idiotic fuckups. But it also seems like it won't really set in until after I'm dead from old age, so that fucking sucks.

>>11654301
>>11654316
Wait, let me caveat this. You said "at will". This implies humans are in control of their own actions. The answer to that is an obvious and stern FUCK NO. Humans lack agency. They're just chaos machines. Pure automatons. Now if you're asking can humans warm the planet, then the answer is "Yes, absolutely". If you're asking whether humans can intelligently control whether the planet cools or warms, the answer is "Lol fags". It just so happens that what humans are autonomously carrying out right now is warming the planet. And it will stop when they all die for reasons outside of their control, but caused by their own hands.

>>11654280
>Exploited resources, our carbon footprint
Nope, natural processes can have similar enough effects. Volcanism and coal seams subsequently setting fire come to mind. It could also be explained by prior events reducing the amount of fossil fuels being formed.

>geo-engineering like massive strip mines and artificial islands, rubble of cities
reduced to nothing and buried just like any other pieces of rock, thanks to natural processes. 150 million years is a long time

>decay product of elements that don't naturally occur
Sounds like a meteor and or volcanism to me.

>>11654337
The biggest clue will be a massive disappearance of species in the fossil record with no indication of climate change, cometary impact, etc. but it will just be a huge mystery, because no part of human "civilization" will survive that long anyway.

>>11652925
namefagging retard

>>11652925
Why are you going by SrGrafo? Is Sr Grafo a climate skeptic?

>>11652242
It’s sold like: earth will become a desert planet. In reality: the climate will shift around so colder places may get warmer and warmer places may get colder.

>>11654416
Large parts of the planet are very certainly becoming desert, but it's due to agriculture, not climate change. Global warming does exacerbate the problem, but there really wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for modern agriculture.

>>11654411
Ad Hominem.

>>11654844
A question is an ad hom now? So I take that as a yes.

>>11652224
I've lived in New England all my life and we've had snow in May before.

>>11652201
More energy in a chaotic system makes it more chaotic. What the cultists don't get though is that it's our farming practices that fuck things up. Tilling millions of acres of plant life and soil releases massive amounts of carbon and dust into the atmosphere each year. Biodiversity becomes virtually nonexistent requiring heavy chemical intervention to get rid of the pests and weeds that only thrive because there's nothing else there to compete with. The ecological damage is so widespread that it changes weather patterns as fields become deserts without the use of heavy chemical intervention. Railing against livestock is also misguided: cattle that aren't factory farmed and corn fed do far more good than harm both to the fields they graze on and the people who eat their meat. Focusing on yields over ecology to "feed the world" has only led to destroying it.

>>11654009
Rates of change

>>11652224
Account for the fact that the greatest drought in the US was in the 1300s (for 50 to 70 years) when co2 was 280ppm, and the drought of the 1930s was worse than the drought of the late 1970s which was worse than anything we have seen since, since it has been getting very slightly colder and wetter.

>>11654935
>>11654009

>>11653552
Compare with 1934.

>>11652201
They call it climate change to which any and all weathers and patterns of weather can be assigned because it's such a broad and meaningless thing.

>>11654234
The issue with Venus is it doesn't have much of a magnetic field so it's climate is solar radiation dominated. It's high co2 levels is because the planet is trapped with its original primordial volcanic atmosphere and could never evolve a biosphere because of its lack of radiation shielding from the sun. Alarmists making earth / Venus comparisons are comparing Apple's to oranges.

>>11654280
In geologic timescales, the sections of crust with cities and pit mines will be subducted back into the mantle, by the time the sun explodes most surface crust will postdate the anthropic period and our co2 will be tied up in buried limestone deposits.

>>11654964
It's also a hell of a lot closer to the fucking sun. Everyone just conveniently forgets that part. Just like they do with Mars being colder because it's further away. Yes, there are other factors, but entirely discounting distance from a star is a stupid thing that techno-retards love doing.

>>11654972
If you say "The sun will explode" in any statement, your argument can be flushed down the toilet like the turd it is. Nihilism is not an argument and never was. Anyone can sit on the couch. Thanks, we can ride this one out without your input.

>>11654009
The climate has never changed at these fast timescales in the recent geologic past save for mass extinction events. Human civilization and the ecosystem benefit from us mitigating the effects of rapid warming
>>11654049
>This is literally one of the worst climates in Earth's history for how cold it is
Completely meaningless and subjective statement. The current biosphere developed and grew in this cooler earth for the past ~5 My. Rapid warming or climate upheaval does not benefit life on the planet or us.

>>11654980
>Completely meaningless and subjective statement.
Ok.

>>11654981
During the Cretaceous the Earth was under a completely different continental and oceanic configuration. The climate was fundamentally different and it is meaningless to the discussion of anthropogenic climate change

>>11654973
Venus, earth and mars are all in the habitable zone but only earth has a strong enough magnetosphere to keep the solar wind at bay. Venus turns on its axis once every 200 days so it's iron core can't create a magnetic field and mars is only 0.6 earth mass and doesn't have enough iron in its core so it's primordial seas and atmosphere were ionized and stripped away by the solar wind. If it was double it's mass it's very early tenuous biosphere would have taken root and survived and it would be a living planet like earth.

>>11654976
I accurately pointed out that every last trace of out existence will be very long gone before the earth comes to the end. Look at the skyline of your local metropolis, it will be pushed under the crust and dissolved in the magma while the sun still shines and other creatures still walk the earth. You're not that important.

>>11654997
>>11654972
>continental crust getting subducted
"No!"
Also open pit mines in the cratons will stay here for a very long time

>>11654964
>because the planet is trapped with its original primordial volcanic atmosphere and could never evolve a biosphere because of its lack of radiation shielding from the sun
If given it did form life to convert CO2 to O2, the H2O and O2 in the atmosphere would just rise and be blown into space any way. It wouldn't be much different with or without life in its history.

>>11654988
That's nice.

>>11654990
You're oversimplifying this to the point of idiocy. The orbits of Venus, Earth and Mars are nowhere near each other. They are not equivalent.

>>11654997
Who fucking cares?

>>11655050
What the fuck are you talking about? Venus is lifeless specifically because of solar radiation reaching the surface owing to the lack of the magnetosphere.

>>11655085
The orbits of the three planets are all within the habitable zone. Only the earth has magnetic shielding from solar ionizing radiation. If Venus was spinning fast enough, and mars had twice as much iron in its core both could support life.

>>11655175
You seriously have no idea what you're talking about. I'll assume you're just baiting.

>>11654294

A talking point to own the libs is that without industrial civilisation the Earth would have eventually consumed all of its gaseous carbon content into the oceans and land. British people saved the forrests and world herbage from ultimate extinction.

>>11652242
>climate change is a more accurate descriptor
Why do you pick a grammatically incorrect descriptor?

When we go through a recession do you also say "we're really experience some pretty intense ECONOMY change right now"? I doubt it because you'd sound like an idiot.

The gramatically correct phrase is "climatic change"

>>11653332

This is correct, and yes, presenting either as something to refute the other side is ridiculous.

>>11652314

>>11653265
>1/10th of 1 degree
Source: your ass

>>11655244
>If I didn't eat 5000 calories a day I would eventually starve

>>11654852
ya you're right doofus. A question isn't ad. hominem. Do you tell your parents you're a racist Nazi?

>>11655543
You know, I really don't give a flying fuck about e-thots, but just don't let reddit hear that you're a climate change denier, since you love that site so much.

>>11655913
Never said I was. I'm just playing devil's advocate since the dingus was using shitty logic. God I love being right all the time.

>>11655999
About what, being a retard?

>>11656001
Quit throwing around the r word bub. >>11654403
You too
>>11654183
And why is that, Mr high and mighty

Alright, this thread is boring now. Derailed by fucking Sr Grafo of all people. Never expected that, gotta say.

>>11652201
Global warming / Climate change actually means the variance grows large (i.e we are going through a transition). The problem is that fluctuations are hard to predict in systems with many degrees of freedom, so we might as well rely on a mean-field like estimate.

>>11656022
fuck off
>>11656057
This sums up my point. You may continue trolling each other now. I give up with you lot.

>>11652365
>increase in the frequency and severity of freak weather
By that statement, any weather would confirm the global warming theory. Effectively the predictive force has been removed and it is therefore, by definition, not science.

Americans do this every year
>wtf it's cold [where I live] so much for global warming
>year turns out to be top 10 warmest in record
2020 is on that track as we, don't be a mutt, it could save your country.

>>11652201
B-but greta said

>>11659508
Yes. It is cold where people live and warm on average.

I live in east Tennessee and the weather is downright schizophrenic

Checkmate atheists

>>11652201
>ctrl+f polar vortex
>0 results

/sci/ I am disappoint.

There is a polar vortex that generally hangs out on the top of the planet. This keeps the cold air up there and due to increased heat on the opposite side of the globe the vortex destabilized. This led to the vortex coming to hand out in the US for awhile while the polar region warms significantly. It will soon return to its position, but while it is down here all that cold air that is supposed to be in the arctic circle is here for a visit.

>>11653759
>weather technician
at the haarp station? what kind weathers you made

IF CLIMATE CHANGE REAL THEN WHY IT BE SNOWIN OUSSIDE

>>11652281
it hailed in the middle of a hot summer day a few years back here in texas, shits crazy

>>11654009

Look faggot we had hotter and hotter summers here in argentina for the past 10 years. In my 30 years of life I've never had such unbearable summer days where every second is fucking melting even in the shade. Weight is not a problem because I was actually much fatter back in 2010. I've been always like "lol why do people don't just deal with the heat without AC" but actually for the past year I've been seriously needing one. So the average temperatures are definitely increasing and guess what? at 37 degrees ambient, the body is already stressed out trying to cool down. So imagine average summers being 45 or more degrees. It will be worse than fucking corona with everyone locked inside with their ACs on max. I don't fucking want to live like that for the next 30 years.

>>11661340
u jokin but its tru

>>11652242
You guys are almost starting to make sense. More heat, more melt, more rain and snow, less time to thaw, next ice age.

>>11661140
kinda just sounds like some shit you made up

>>11654403
>He doesn't know SrGrafo
honestly, that's embarassing