/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11644390
all this proves is that being a racist and a successful inventor are not mutually exclusive. doesn't mean that he's right about race.

>>11644390
He's not wrong.

>>11644397
Imagine unironically bitching about racism lmao

>>11644411
>maga_brainlet.jpg

>>11644418
Relax chang/pajeet, Shockley wasn’t even talking about you

>>11644424
>relax indjaaan, based shockley wasnt talking about jew XDDDDD
>honkler.jpg

>>11644397
Let me guess, blacks are less intelligent and more prone to commit violent crime because of white racism? Oh and African nations are shitholes because of European colonialism?

>>11644437
so you're pivoting to a real argument now besides "based science man said racism good"?

>>11644452
>based science man said racism good
Where did I or Shockley say that?

>>11644462
listen, the thread wasn't good to begin with, but there's no need to degrade yourself by playing dumb like this. have some dignity ffs

>>11644465
>my fallacy was called out so now I’m gonna be a faggot
Cope

>>11644475
what logical fallacy did I make?

>>11644477
>>>>>
11644462

>>11644486
calling something racist is not a logical fallacy

Right-wingers usually play around as intentionally obtuse when they start making these statements as if they have no social context, but man when you start casting black people in a Shakespeare play its a political statement for white genocide.

>>11644493
>based science man said racism good
This wasn’t said anywhere above. It’s a straw man. But you are a dumbass so I wouldn’t expect you to understand.

>>11644496
>every assessment of my posts that I don't like is a strawman
>because my posts are always great 100% of the time
>maga_brainlet.jpg

>>11644434
>>11644497
Brainlet COPE

>>11644501
>hitlary

ouch - unironic boomer-posting on /sci/. did you mean to go to yahoo.com, gramps?

>>11644452
What?

>>11644524
he started talking about demographics instead of just citing a dead transistor researcher. I still disagree with the argument but at least it relies on statistics

>>11644495
I still think Danny DeVito should've been lead role in Black Panther. Tell me that wouldn't be a 10x better movie.

>>11644531
Do you have any rebuttals against Shockleys research?

>>11644538
no because I don't know anything about how transistors work

as far as I can tell he never actually researched race. just a bunch of essays and presentations - basically a pundit getting a platform because of his nobel prize

>>11644495
Posts like this continue to remind me that people like you have no idea what right wing nationalism is about. You attempt to make nationalists seem ridiculous by pulling something out of your ass and clearly don’t understand any of the actual arguments.

>>11644497
>maga
Why would I support a centrist Zionist?

>>11644548
good news: other great researchers did! a man named arthur jensen wrote interminably about this, and he's as esteemed a scholar as you can get. i recommend reading jensen (the g factor), and then follow up with nyborg when you've had your fill of the exhaustive evidence showing the overwhelmingly likely reality that a good deal of the b-w gap is hereditary.

>>11644565
right-wing nationalists are ridiculous by nature - the best technique for mocking right-wingers is just to quote them ad verbatim

>>11644568
because hurr emails and 'hitlary.jpg'. you don't need a consistent worldview to be a cultist

>>11644573
>right wing nationalists are ridiculous by nature
>doesn’t even understand right wing nationalism
Yeah you sure showed us.

>>11644577
You honesty sound like a complete faggot

>>11644497
Retard

>>11644580
lefties just don't understand our intricate and subtle worldviews. in their defense, it takes a you have to have a Very High IQ to understand brown man bad

>>11644587
>>11644584
wow you must really be angry if you needed to post the same thing twice. my advice is to samefag more than 60 seconds apart so that it's not as obvious to everyone

>>11644589
>brown man bad
Yeah you’re definitely a dumbass. Thanks for proving my point. How about you quote one of those ridiculous nationalists since you understand us so well.

>>11644465
It's rather poor argumentation if we judge them based on rigor or ability to convince but that isn't happening here. This is pure performance for the audience and it isn't those who are on the fence or who take the contrary position. It's post-modern theory put into practice (i.e. praxis) by the right, and they have the liberals totally beaten and stumped.

>>11644565
>>Posts like this continue to remind me that people like you have no idea what right wing nationalism is about. You attempt to make nationalists seem ridiculous by pulling something out of your ass and clearly don’t understand any of the actual arguments.

I find it really hard to believe that the right-wingers of today have a dead serious commitment to their arguments. Why do they continue to make threads like these that barely resemble a coherent argument for racism? Are they truly that stupid? I don't think so and I don't underestimate them by assuming that they are that stupid. There is something else going on here and your CNN/MSNBC/Snopes fact-checkers are totally missing the point if they want to fact-check and engage in the realm of facts and logic

>>11644592
>samefag
What does he mean by this

>>11644602
>Yeah you’re definitely a dumbass. Thanks for proving my point
no problem man. anything else to say about me before you go back to sucking a dead white supremacist's cock?

>>11644609
it means 'samefag', samefag

>>11644604
>quotes me
>still provides no argument
>still clearly doesn’t understand what he’s talking about
>facts and logic
I think you need to stop. There is nothing funny about being intellectually arrogant yet so stupid at the same time.

>>11644604
To add more to this. There is really no point anymore, at this point, to understanding the nuances and details of arguments coming from the vulgar Right. What is left to do now is to observe how the right uses argumentation to push its political message

>>11644615
>anyone aware of very real racial differences is a white supremacist
I don’t blame you anon, if the white kids in school bullied me I would probably say the same thing

>>11644627
Funny because we are already past the point of argumentation. People like you are proof of that. Grass roots right wing movements developed because conservatives tried to “argue” and conserved nothing.

>>11644644
>Funny because we are already past the point of argumentation.
Agreed
>Grass roots right wing movements developed because conservatives tried to “argue” and conserved nothing.
Very much agree.

>>11644390
Well, he was right. I live in a city and can confirm they are all retarded, disgusting animals. I hope gibs dry up in my lifetime so I can watch them all die and/or kill each other.

>>11644739
That’s racist anon. Blacks are only like that because of white racism and oppression.

Here. Crunch the numbers for yourselves.

>>11644571
But theres no actual evidence is there. Theres evidence there is a gap. There is none about the nature of it.

>>11644851
If you plan on making the argument that the gap is only due to nurture and not nature you will have a very difficult time.

>>11644604
>>11644627
>>11644644
>>11644653
Holy shit, all these words and mental gymnastics just to avoid admitting black people suck.

>>11645048
No shit. People will reject what their own two eyes tell them because it doesn’t fit their worldview.

>>11644971
theres no evidence for nature at all.

>another race IQ thread
Mhmm, I wonder why are these threads being made so often...

>>11644452
he didn't say racism was good.

he said niggers are dumb as fuck---which is obvious.

The evidence lies across the animal kingdom.

>>11645235
Really? No evidence at all? How about the fact that every single majority black community is shit. Neighborhoods, cities, counties, states, and nations. Every fucking one is shit if it is majority black. If you think there is “no evidence” for nature then you deserve to live with them. Dumb fucking cunt.

>>11644390
Do you ask a plumber to fix your computer? No, you don't. So why should I give a fuck what a physicist thinks about biology?

>>11644390
Based and nigger-pilled

>>11644495
Call me crazy but I don’t dress up any other piece of senpai equipment, obsolete or otherwise, and put it on stage on Broadway. I simply don’t see the point behind putting niggers among human beings like that.

>>11644495

allsotiresome.jpg

>>11645359
Ok jew

>>11645367

actually, that phrase comes from a Chinese tired of dealing with niggers.

would you have a response for >>11645295
or will you just keep spewing out your ideological drivel?

This is a board of science and this is a serious question. Can't handle it, get the fuck out, faggot.

>>11644390
using IQ testing to find intellegence is like using a rule to measure a block of concrete then finding the amount of concrete molecules in it per volume, sure it works and theyres some accuracy to it, but its still fundamentally flawed and inconclusive.

>>11645332
Genetic fallacy you dumb cunt.

>>11645377
I agree. Asians have higher average IQs yet whites have better nations and societies. It seems whites have the best combination of software and hardware.

>>11645374
I care about IQ about as much as I care about a person's horoscope.

Even if it could be demonstrated using any actual meaningful measures, it couldn't remotely be said to follow that blacks should be treated the least bit differently.

You don't get to take a cultured tone and be smug about "do you actually have an ArGuMeNt~?!?" when you're calling people faggots.

Go inject Lysol.

>>11645392
Blacks are human and shouldn’t be treated differently. But I don’t want them in my nation or community.

>>11645392
>it couldn't remotely be said to follow that blacks should be treated the least bit differently.

who wrote that? nobody mentioned anything like that. Get out, you're not fit for this discussion.

>>11645390
>Genetic fallacy
You presented him as an expert based on his scientific pedigree. His scientific pedigree does not actually qualify him to claim expertise on matters of biology. Therefore the claim needs more support than just having been made by Shockley, and to pretend that Shockley having said it is sufficient support is appeal to authority rather than an actual, worthwhile, meaningful argument.

>>11645399
You don't want to hav, but you don't want them treated differently. Sure. Okay.

>>11645408
You don't want to have to live with them, which implies you want them moved. How do you propose to do this without mistreating them, kid?

If blacks can’t ever improve why are their countries getting higher gdps?
Why did slavery end?
Why did they get more and more rights over time?

>>11645405
>”genetic fallacy”
>responds with a genetic fallacy
Are you fucking joking? God you are a dumb cunt.

>>11644497
You're reaching god tier levels of autism rn anon.

>>11645408
Yes. I want to live with my people. Not them. However they deserve the same. Do you not understand this?

>>11645418
All I hear is that you want to murder 8 billion non white people. Now take your pills so the voices go away

>>11645415
Again, you fail to demonstrate that he has any more authority than a janitor. You can say the words "genetic fallacy" all you want, brat. They'll never mean what you need them to.

>>11645421
stop putting words on people's texts; you're not fit for this discussion. Run to your safespace faggot.

>>11645421
Then you are mistaken. I want to live peacefully with my people and others deserve the same regardless of race.

>>11645425
Cope

>>11645421
You are honestly a dumbass

>>11644434
okay youve overstayed your visit retard, take it to /pol/

>>11645251
>2010
its gookmoot season now nigger, dont like it? back 2 r*ddit

>>11644434
You're obsessed dude. You probably have an insecurity about Jewish control of the world since you know they're brainwashing people using the tube.

>>11645606
He’s likely East Asian or Indian. He doesn’t want to admit we are correct.

>>11645048
>Holy shit, all these words and mental gymnastics

It's not really too much for anyone to handle.

>>11645434
>Then you are mistaken. I want to live peacefully with my people and others deserve the same regardless of race.
You can live with the Ethiopians under pre-racial medieval Christendom.

>>11645740
>pre-racial medieval Christendom
It was never pre racial. Try again larpagan.

>>11645296
That is not evidence of nature just that there is a difference. There is no necessity for that to mean the difference is nature. It can very plausibly be nurture. Just because all catholic communities in northern ireland are poorer than protestant ones doesnt mean the difference is nature. Just because immigrant communities are all poorer doesn't mean the difference is nature. Just because almost all countries that play rugby are commonwealth or indian communities invariably like cricket doesnt mean the difference is nurture. Just because women in one country are in more male stereotypical jobs in one country compared to another doesnt mean that the difference is genetic.

>>11646087
You are a dumb fucking cunt.

>>11646933
>every person in scotland drinks iron bru. it must be genetic you dumb fucking cunt.

>>11646972
>reality doesn’t fit my worldview so I will perform mental gymnastics to ease my cognitive dissonance

>>11646987
>incapable of a reasoned retort so just continues making assertions

>>11644437
Live the way they do and see how your behavior is affected

lol niggers

>>11644437
poor people are more prone to commit violent crime

>>11645820
I'm counting down to the next European "brother" wars once the EU dissolves and the world reverts back into a series of security dilemmas

>>11644397
>>11644437

>>11647881
Black people commit more crime even when you control for income.

>>11648351
Meaningless.

God I love intellectually dominating /pol/niggers. I hope to destroy one so hard one day that he just kills himself right then and there.

>>11644827
>Whites that murder blacks: 7.6%
>Blacks that murder whites: 14.8%
wew

>>11647576
I'm a different guy but your scotland example is wrong. Blacks tend to behave in certain ways despite their cultural upbringings, similar to every other race btw. This is why we see similar outcomes in Africa as we do the inner-cities. The ones in Africa may not listen to the same R&B but in terms of violence, crime, poverty, fuck even sexual preference, these things obviously go beyond nurture.

>>11644565

Anyone else noticed a new wave of 4chan counterculture

4chan used to be the only place you could admit that niggers ain’t shit without triggering the sjw but lately there seems to be waaay more. Why would you even want to go on 4chan if you have leftist beliefs, clearly as this thread demonstrates they’re just here to argue autistically.

It’s not even arguing it’s the generic normie conditioning, there’s no argument is just reiteration that you’re racist if you think this. We understand that you’re incapable of critical thinking as you’ve had 18 years of conditioning to believe certain ways, but did they really brainwash you so badly that you’ll be their psyop bot flooding any location of disagreement with your adopted emotional opinions?

>>11648668
>doesnt realise every single scottish person drinks irn bru everyday all day
>immigrants all behave the same in different countries. must be genetic.

>>11648732
With Trump as POTUS, it's become pretty apparent that the cancer killing America is actually conservative anti-intellectualism, not low-IQ immigrants. It shouldn't be surprising that 4channers increasingly prefer leftism to Trumpcuckery.

>>11648732
>tries to larp as an oldfag
>uses reddit spacing
fuck off tranny

>>11648631
your comment is meaningless

>>11648852
>just a line break after a few sentences
>reddit spacing

kill yourself

>>11648732
Hilary demanded war on Pepe and named the Chan.

Try not to rope yourself with how cringeworthy the state of politics is but 4chan was seen as a major factor in the youth vote in 2016 and if intentional shilling since isnt real a demographic explosion has been.

>>11645295
human skin color is mostly monogenic and that gene has nothing to do with iq
it's why jews and chinese who are swarthier than euros have higher IQ's then?
lmao

rushton is such a retard

>>11648793
I never made these claims you smooth brain. Take off the ideological blinders for a bit.

>>11649661
The only retard here is the one denying divergent evolution in humans.

>>11649672
on a bio molecular level IQ has nothing to do with how your skin color is
you could CRISPR some asian dude to be dark as night and nothing about his IQ would change simply because the genes that make you smart are not the same as your outward looks genes

>>11646087
>Just because immigrant communities are all poorer doesn't mean the difference is nature.

Jewish and east Asian immigrant communities usually outperform the natives.

>>11649678
So do Indian ones
that's usually not mentioned because they're icky and brown
but they btfo whitey everywhere

>>11644390
Divergent evolution in homo sapiens. Note that trait such as intelligence is thought to be highly polygenic, so it's genetic component should vary according to the largest genetic clusters in the population. Which correspond to "races" rather well.

>>11649686
>Which correspond to "races" rather well.
how many races are there and can you name them

I can name them, but I'll give you a shot

>>11649681
>So do Indian ones

Not as much as Jews and east Asians. Anyway, there is also a founder effect here, because Indian immigrants are usually from the very elite of Indian society. So while Indians as a whole are genetically dumber than Whites, Indian immigrants may very well be genetically smarter.

>>11649677
>what is correlation
You understand that these studies are not making the claim that skin pigmentation variation CAUSES variation in IQ, right?

>>11649691
>how many races are there and can you name them

Just look at the pic of the clustering, dude, that structure is what is fundamental, not your semantics.

>>11649691
I’m not that guy but you’re totally missing the point. These genes cluster nicely with our preconceived notions of race, which my indicate a biological basis to these distinctions. Even though you can select the number of categories in gene clustering, some groups cluster better than others.

>>11649693
>Not as much as Jews and east Asians.
Actually equally or more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income#By_ancestry
>Anyway, there is also a founder effect here, because Indian immigrants are usually from the very elite of Indian society. So while Indians as a whole are genetically dumber than Whites, Indian immigrants may very well be genetically smarter.
unlikely
even LOWEST CASTE slave indians that were sold as slaves did well to btfo niggers in south africa and catch up significantly to whitey in a SINGLE generation (30 years) which is a nothing time period
>>11649694
that is exactly what rushton is claiming retard

>>11649701
>>11649697
ok then now that you've accepted clusters are valid way of doing races
>asian
>caucasian
>amerindian
>african
>australian

>>11649701
>Even though you can select the number of categories in gene clusterin

Nah, many clustering algorithms do not need to have the number of clusters input by hand. Such as this one.
>>11649686

>>11649704
>that’s what rushton is claiming
Prove it

>>11649706
notice anything ?

>>11649705
>Europeans and middle easterners cluster together
That’s actually a really cool result. I wouldn’t have expected that.

>That’s actually a really cool result. I wouldn’t have expected that.
you wouldn't? really?
already with skulls and faces did 19th century anthropologists say that, computers nowadays just confirm it time and time again, it is essentially the same ancestral populations that gave rise to both middle easterners and europeans

for reference the fst between caucasians and africans is 0.15 to 0.16

>>11649714
ok, but why the hell not? Meds and Arabs are usually considered White/Caucasian (with some admixture). So that is to be expected.

this>>11649721
meant for >>11649714
anyways
here's another one
>>11649722
>Meds and Arabs are usually considered White/Caucasian (with some admixture). So that is to be expected.
they are considered white only by unbiased computer algorithms

>>11649726
>they are considered white only by unbiased computer algorithms

Nope. They were historically considered Caucasian by all the educated people and "scientific racists". Only /pol/ tier idiots who think "white=blond hair and blue eyes" believe otherrwise.

>>11649733
>They were historically considered Caucasian by all the educated people and "scientific racists".
yes, were

>>11649704
yes, this is how easy it is to btfo the 'indian immigrants are all hyper selected brahmin though'
they quite likely are selected (in the west) but claiming average indian IQ is 85 goes against
1. what we have observed in south africa as far as a slave caste
2. performance in the west
3. actual niggers in the USA having an average IQ of 85
4. caucasian genetics of indians
5. india developing while being a multi culti clusterfuck of a billion+ people and on hard mode with democracy
6. flynn effect
7.https://jeltewichertsdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/wicherts2010iqafr.pdf combined with 1. 6. and 3.
8. even 3rd gen indians do very well, wtf where all the wives hyper selected too?
9. history

anyways the point isn't about indians
the point is, just because one group (niggers) are obviously genetically retarded doesn't mean it's always the case with any group
So william shockley was neither racist nor wrong to say that

tldr
fuck niggers
fuck polfags
fuck rushton and lynn
fuck IQ deniers like @11645390
fuck midwits

food for thought

>>11649693
>genetically dumber
no evidence for this.

>>11649722
no normal person thinks arabs as whites.

>>11649733
>"scientific racist"
you mean racist right?

>>11649774
you actually sound like you have ab 85 IQ

>>11647881
people who commit violent crimes are more prone to be poor

>>11644390
>Shockley donated sperm to the Repository for Germinal Choice, a sperm bank founded by Robert Klark Graham in hopes of spreading humanity's best genes. The bank, called by the media the "Nobel Prize sperm bank", claimed to have three Nobel Prize-winning donors, though Shockley was the only one to publicly acknowledge his donation to the sperm bank. However, Shockley's controversial views brought the Repository for Germinal Choice a degree of notoriety and may have discouraged other Nobel Prize winners from donating sperm.[43]

>>11648852
>>trie
s to larp as
an ol


dfag

>>uses reddit spacing
>fuck off tranny

>>11648345
Based Cochran. He might've won the genetic lottery in IQ, but hell if he ain't one of the ugliest niggas inside and out.

>>11644390
Famously wrong.
So famously, he's used as an example on how wrong he was.
Turns out, if you test kids, who haven't recieved the same level of mental stimulation at a young age, who go to poorer schooling, and test them in a medium they're less familiar with then others, they'll do poorer.
As an example, people used drawing skills for most child IQ tests, as a way to analyse depictions of image and space in regards to age.
Turns out, in places like africa, where pencils aren't so common, kids don't know how to work them and do poorly.
Give them a medium they know however, like No 8 wire, and they do just as well as most western kids with pencils.
When you set a test with a fundamental bias towards one way of life, be it geographical, social, political, economical, or anything else relevant to the situation, it's biased to it, and only valid for those in that exact way of life themselves. Who could have known?

I think "political correctness" gets in the way of science, but likewise, hate too. It could easily be argued that with the right conditions the differences between the human subspecies, when stripped out of their socio-economic traits, become irrelevant, and by no means grant institutional discrimination, moreover, any form of imposed discrimination does nothing but create conflict. That includes the modern efforts to over represent individuals not by merit but by which group they come from, whereas strictly speaking socio-economics, or ethno-cultural and even biological. One could for example group the most intelligent specimens of any given subspecies and create a nation state out of them and it would be quick for a difference to be seen between the general group, in other words, if applied, the persue of intelligence is the selective force that could potentially level all human subspecies together quite easily, that is, stripped from all mutual prejudices, and with one shared culture, of course this is impossible... and no one will want to admit the negative aspects of their respective cultures as easily as they should, much less if they treat for example Subsaharan African subspecies as protected entities with culture that is not to be told to improve as that would be considered in today´s words "racist".

Interestingly enough, there were great idological movements aimed at creating a victim complex that would secure a narrative in which the relation between people would become unecessarily frictionous(?) in its stated attempt to be less so, issue exploited, as they ultimately have done through Marxism, what later developed and self proclaimed as neo-marxism, which eventually spawned our modern ideology known as Feminism.

But what are we to make out of this? And moreover, what are we to make out of that logically, in a practical yet humane manner? The anwser is simple even at an individual level, to allow equality of oportunity, and to discourage inequality of outcome, being the goal of subsidizing only the least fortunate so they may be met with basic amenities which they would otherwise fail to attain without any help, or being in theory at least the goal. Naturally we still have a long way to go, or so I believe anyway, we give too much, we give too little, we help too much, we help too little, and it does seem like those in the middle carry the heaviest burden, effort wise. Anyway, I am just thinking outlout, my apologies if someone was "triggered".

>>11652792
>Turns out, if you test kids, who haven't recieved the same level of mental stimulation at a young age, who go to poorer schooling, and test them in a medium they're less familiar with then other

Imagine, if you will, a population that is genetically less intelligent than another. They have kids and raise them in their own neighbourhoods where they live together.
Wouldn't they receive a lower level of mental stimulation, poorer schooling, and be less familiar with intellectual exercises ?


Here's one anecdote. In 1942, in a country damaged by war, where food was rationned until 1949, a boy called Jean Frene was born in a family of farmers. He went to school as per the mandatory curriculum, finished at fourteen, and went to work as a farmhand. At 19, he had to join the army for military service. They made him pass intelligence tests, and he got full marks.
So they gave him a grant and told him to go back to school, he studied mechanical engineering, got a PhD, and made valuable contributions in the field of tribology.

Intelligence isn't just a matter of environment.

>>11653080
>Intelligence isn't just a matter of environment.
of course not you utter retard, who the fuck said that

>>11653168
The anon who said the guy in OP is wrong because environment factors in IQ testing results.

>>11644397
so virtuous!

>>11653080
your sentence structuring is terrible.

do you understand what an average is and why its stupid pass judgement a population based on said average?

do you understand what circularity is?

>>11653329
>do you understand what an average is
Yes.
>and why its stupid pass judgement a population based on said average?
No, please explain.

>>11653329
passing judgement on a population via the average makes quite a bit of sense, passing judgement on an individual from that group much less so. although it is still predictive if you know nothing else...

>>11644390
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! SCIENCE MAN GOOD ONLY WHEN HE AGREES WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HERE'S A PICTURE OF A BLACK MAN THAT ISN'T A COMPLETE SUBHUMAN, HAHAHA RACISM BTFO!!!! GO BACK TO /POL/! WHAT, WHAT TRANNIES HAVE TO DO WITH THIS?!?! IF YOU THINK ABOUT THEM SO MUCH IT MENS YOU ARE ONE! HAHAHAHHA, /POL/ BTFO, HOW WILL /POL/ EVER RECOVER?!

>>11653462
Isn't that the same the other way around tho? You fags dispute anyone else, from Heisenberg to Einstein as dumb jews when told they were leftists and against racism. Only worthless scientists who've never produced anything significant but spoke against muh establishment fit the bill for what u call science lmao. Some jokes write themselves I guess

>>11653490
>haha scientists that matter do not like your ideas, and scientists that like your ideas are automatically worthless, HOLY FUCKIGN SHIT /POL/ BTFO HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA