/sci/ - Science & Math

Because of how fucked they are if they make a mistake

>>11632277
could you elaborate? what is the absolute worst that could happen?

>>11632269
>what are the false teeth made of?
labor hours of skilled workers that don't live in china.
(and some chinese labor)

Why don’t they just 3D print them? Or why not do conventional mass production?

>>11632296
Infection in the gums which can travel to the brain before the patient even notices

>>11632269
>why are dental implants so expensive?

Not due to what they are made of.

>>11632269
It's made of titanium. Titanium is more expensive then gold. They have to implant it with surgery. A surgery cost a lot.

Titanium costs money
Surgery costs money
Research and development costs a fucking lot of money

>>11632326
prolly not the latter cuz everyone's mouths are different

>>11632298
This. You're paying for your dentist's expertise.

>>11633236
You're paying for your dentist's second vacation home

>>11633236
You're paying for your dentist's (oral surgeon's) second vacation home

what does it matter? we're maybe 5 years away from being able to regenerate teeth

>>11632359
>Titanium is more expensive then gold
no, it's not

>>11632359
Zirconium implants are quite common these days.

>>11633406
Source?

>>11633598
This is old news and frankly it embarrasses me that someone on /sci/ doesn't know about it.

biomedical engineer here

>>11632269
Custom, extremely-low-tolerance CNC milled/turned titanium screws with custom dimensions for each patient, that needs to be sterilized with ethylene oxide after each run, and implanted by a surgeon with 15+ years of education?

I would charge a shitload for that too.

>>11632326
Find me a filament that:
-can be sanitized like any other medical device
-won't break down under environments with highly variable pH
-won't elicit a foreign body response
-hypoallergenic
-printed with comparable tolerance to a CNC machine

3D printers are a pretty garbage mode of manufacturing for anything besides early prototyping. Be extremely skeptical of any medical device company that uses 3D printing for their actual production runs.

>>11633607
I know about the fact that enamel regrowth has been achieved, but "regenerating teeth" sounds way more complex than just filling your cavities with hydroxyapatite.

>>11632269
Let med students do the work, most places give you a 10-15% discount.

>getting dental implants
Just as bad as being CLAMPED and VAXXED Tbh

>>11633332
Do you really think that most dentists are that loaded? It must be terrible living in a world where you feel that every single person who can provide a service you desire is maliciously trying to take advantage of you for some marginal excess luxury.

Dental services definitely couldn't be expensive because dental schools are as long and expensive a process as conventional med school (especially for people focusing on oral surgery. This definitely doesn't put competency barriers upon people entering into the field of oral surgery which necessarily makes their services more valuable. No, it's definitely got to be because this capitalist pig wants to leach off of my low skilled self to pay for his 4th Rolex and a private jet. I'm sure the fat they're trimming off your grocery store bagging job is just giving them a massive boner for buying all sorts of unnecessary luxuries while you struggle to get by.

>>11634090
>every single person who can provide a service you desire is maliciously trying to take advantage of you for some marginal excess luxury
That is an uncomfortable truth to come to terms with, but it is literally how capitalism works.

>Be afraid! You don't want anything but the best, do you? What is your life worth? We can't just train vocational school graduates to fill phantom cavities and perform unnecessary extractions!

>>11632326
They're custom made.

>>11632296
really affects quality of life, too, if it goes south

>>11632327
That's what dentists say about every gum infection

>>11634820
Because they don't want to get fucking sued for giving their patients the idea that a gum infection is no big deal

>>11634827
That's not how it works

>>11634847
You're obviously not from America
You can get sued for literally anything here

>>11633610
Do you see any possible alternatives that might be cheaper on the horizon? The way you describe it, it seems like a real difficult puzzle

>>11632269
Insurance, the dental manufacturing industry, and the ADA

>>11633406
Don't get your hopes up. Its been "5" years in my mind for the past 20 years for me. Innovation outside of computer technology does not move that fast. I'll say it will take atleast another 30 years before we get anything regenerative.

>>11634849
That's a frustratingly common misconception. You should research the laws in your state that govern who you can sue and when and how you can sue them. It's much more difficult to sue health care workers in the US than most people think.

Because dentistry, at the end of the day, is surgery. And dental implants are extremely invasive surgeries that requires years of training and practice.

I don't get the dental hate /sci/ has. Do you want Joe Donkey fucking up your teeth? No? Then pay for quality.

>>11632327
>>11634077

literally go back to /x/

>>11633406
lmao guess who will do the procedure, retard, not only that, it will be at least twice as expensive as implants

>>11633610
this

>>11634827
>gum infection is no big deal
go back to /x/

Worst can happen is bone infection and the implant falls
desu im surprised at the level of some commments
literally /x/ tier dude, pathetic try hards

t. dentist

>>11632269
Lol it's free in Europe.

>>11634879
machining gets better literally every year. subscribe to the mailing list for a company like Haas and you'll see just how crazy their new machines get. as CNC mills get fancier and faster, the unit cost of machining an implant screw will go down.

but honestly, consumers will always be screwed in a medical system that relies on private insurance. you just hope that eventually you won't be screwed quite as hard

>>11635257
>lmao guess who will do the procedure, retard
They could invent a robot that did every dental procedure perfectly, with no human intervention, and dentists would lobby lawmakers to prevent anyone except them from owning one or switching it on. Pure scum, just like doctors.

>>11635336
nice

>>11634077
>hey look, clamp-schizo's posting about clamps again!

Cost of metal and making the material. Cost of the dentist in assessing how its going into your mouth / how he's going to do it (needs to check off quite a list). It's that everything needs to be custom tailored / made as well, and there is not a lot of margin for error either. Measurements that are slightly off can cause a failed treatment.

Also the other cost would be related to crowns that would be attached to the titanium screw. Which is also quite expensive and highly technical.

Lastly there are costs attached to the clinic, the dentist operating (he wants a profit / salary as well) which also needs to be paid for.
>>11633406
I believe researchers some 2-3 years ago already grew a human teeth in someone using stem cell technology. I highly doubt in 5 years that will be commercially available. I don't think damage e.g. cavities will have an easier solution to heal other than fillings.

>>11634954
Probably. Although dental treatments and technology goes pretty fast compared to some other disciplines.

>>11634090
In my country (Netherlands) they're pretty loaded especially if they own a clinic since there's a permanent shortage of dentists for 20 years (more dentists retire than new grads due to numerus fixus study). Fucked up part is that dentist organisations pressure universities in this country to take on less students.

Medicine is 6 years, I believe dentistry study is a bachelor + master that takes 5 years.

>>11635311
Lel no in most countries dentistry is seen as a luxurious good rather than an essential medical service. Thus you get the fulfilling enjoyment of paying quite a lot for dentistry.

how do niggas get gold teef? know m sayin

>>11635175
You're a fucking idiot I was obviously exaggerating holy shit
Regardless of state if your dentist tells you your infected gums are totally fine and you have complications due to this you can sue them
You people are so fucking autistic it drives me mad

>>11635239
all dentists do is fuck up your teeth. ancient people lived on diets of wine, bread and fruits and rarely ever suffered dental problems. oh wait, they didnt drill into teeth and scrape them with metal every six months. really makes you think.

>>11635257
>there is a magical barrier that stops an infection from traveling from gums to the brain
>t. dentist
Holy fucking shit you're dumb. Dentists truly are the most retarded doctors

>>11632269
Materials, surgery, expertise, it being a well regarded profession with high standards. You don't want inexperienced, if not straight incapable, hands to fuck you up, because you will absolutely, undoubtedly regret not having spent more for life. Teeth issues can be a nightmare.

Say you lose most of your upper teeth. Could an entire set of implants be fitted with just four screws rather than one screw per implant ( and I am not talking about those disgusting looking "clip on" dentures that come with the fake gums)

Also people saying you can get implants at fraction of price in countries like Thailand etc, but that sounds scary as hell despite hearing some people saying its all good.

>>11636106
If you take "Ancient people" as classical Greece/Rome, they lived till about 20-30 years old. You could eat tons of sugar all day and the effects wouldn't be as bad since you're gonna die soon.

Ancient people didn't have as bad dental problems because they didn't live long enough to develop them. I won't argue the food/drink point though. All food produce in the world has been loaded with sugar to absurd levels. In the US, you can't even get normal bread. It's all sweet bread.

Dentists are needed because people are living longer + shit diets.

Reminder, dental crowns are inferior to actual bone for all materials except gold-platinum. Porcelain and zirconium crowns attract bacteria, stain, and will eventually scratch with continued brushing and are only good for 5 to 10 years before needing replaced. Lookalike material do not look like teeth. Might as well just accept your fate and get the only acceptance rather than coping option, and that's good. They'll last for life and you'll probably be better off with them than actual teeth for all thing aside from the added weight and obviousness of them. Reminder to also do this if you ever need a root canal. Root canal is essentially having a dead rotten tooth. Gold implants (NOT grills) are top tier.

>>11636222
>If you take "Ancient people" as classical Greece/Rome, they lived till about 20-30 years old
no they didn't, if they survived infancy they pretty much lived as long we do now. Plenty of ancients lived into their 80s and 90s. Caesar was considered a middle aged man when he died at 55. Augustus' wife lived to 87. Very strange how she didn't die of "gum infection to the brain" like dentists insist would happen

>>11636222
>If you take "Ancient people" as classical Greece/Rome, they lived till about 20-30 years old

Fuck you.

>>11635257
>lmao guess who will do the procedure, retard, not only that, it will be at least twice as expensive as implants

So apparently a dentist that wants to be really rich would want to do that procedure. Get on it, poorfag.

>>11632269
Lost one front tooth during a fight. Got a dental implant and it is still surprising just how good it looks and actually works, ama.

>>11635257
>Worst can happen is bone infection and the implant falls
Bone infection is a pretty serious thing retard. People get extremities amputated for that. Can you amputate the head though?

>>11635399
> I was obviously exaggerating holy shit
There's a difference between calling a slightly above average-sized fish huge and calling a tiny fish huge
>Regardless of state if your dentist tells you your infected gums are totally fine and you have complications due to this you can sue them
Moving the goalposts here

>>11632298

not really you have mostly porculan from china tahts in them or you pay a few k for each

>cost of liability insurance
>cost of barrier to entry
You don’t need a PHD to drill a hole you ultra autist. The system is corrupt.

>>11634090
>>filament
cute. Electron beam melting is used to make titanium implants. It ain't cheaper either.

>>11634277
Hey man, if you really think the process of dental school is as easy as going to a vocational school I'm sure there's plenty of guys with pliers at said vocational school who could help you with your teeth yanking. There's probably a few contractors who are good with a drill and could help with your cavities if you feel like it. Nobody is stopping you.

>>11637472
Hey bud, I've got a drill if you want a few holes drilled. I'm definitely not a doctor but I could probably help you out. Don't worry if anything goes wrong, that guy on the internet said you don't need a PhD to drill a hole so it must be really easy.

>>11637472
Based retard.

>>11632327
So it's right to pay more to potentially die?

>>11632269
they're made of malpractice insurance payments

i got two implants my sophomore year of high school, 9 years later one of them has been fine and the other has been a complete fucking nightmare
>abutment completely broke
>crown has broken twice
i'm so sick of dental procedures at this point

>>11633610
Saw a procedure where they sped up and simplified the dental implantation procedure immensely. Instead of doing it one tooth at a time, they implant a set of steel baseplates which are screwed into the jaw, and then affix the teeth to the plate. Putting in the plates and fixing the new teeth to them is a one-day thing. There will of course be delays, but almost entirely due to the time needed to extract broken teeth and roots, ensure that the mandibular bone is healthy enough to take the screws, and to check for pre-existing infections, all of which happens before the plates are screwed in.

All that being the case, time is money, so a faster turnaround generally means a less expensive procedure.

>>11634277
The fact that you presume malice in it because MUH CAPITALISM discredits you immensely.

When are we going to use genetic engineering to just regrow old teeth?

>>11636222
The average age of death was about 20-30 IF you took into account the startlingly high childbirth/infant mortality rate. It was far from uncommon for someone to live anywhere from 60 to 90 years, same as now, except now we don't have three out of four humans not making it past age 2.

>>11632269
They are made of the massive debt&loans the doctor got when they paid for their educations.

>>11637021
>Moving the goalposts here
Except not really. My original post was this
>Because they don't want to get fucking sued for giving their patients the idea that a gum infection is no big deal
Elaborate on how this:
>Regardless of state if your dentist tells you your infected gums are totally fine and you have complications due to this you can sue them
is in any way moving the goalpost
Maybe you're just a retard?

>>11633610
Medfag here.Implants are made in size increments and mass produced not custom made for vast vast vast majority of cases what is custom is the crown and that is the expensive part metal core and ceramic overlay done by a skilled technician there are cnc milled ones but uniform colour is off in these and they look artificial while a good handmade is indistinguishable from your real teeth.

Now that latter part is getting automated so technicians will be closing shops en mass in the coming 10 years with machines that use additive processes for geometry and ml meme to get surface colour generated to match the your remaining teeth.Operator job is dead simple and i could do that in 15 minutes if i wanted for something like easy access teeth and even pain in the ass third molar is under 30 minutes of serious work.

>>11636106
>rarely ever suffered dental problems

>>11632269
Why is all cosmetic surgery so fucking expensive? It's just 1 hour of sticking in an implant or cutting some bone. Mexico/Turkey is always half the price, it's a scam

>>11636222
>In the US, you can't even get normal bread. It's all sweet bread.
is this true?

>>11639615
DENTAL PLAN

>>11632296
nerve damage, which can lead to possible permanent numbing, or even paralysis

>>11639624
Because if they fuck it up they'll probably never be found and sued.

>>11632269
>why are dental implants so expensive?
Supply and demand, you're welcome to start a dental implant business if you think you can offer it for cheaper.

>>11632269
>Dental implants cost $5000-$15000 per teeth
>cheaper Dental brides cost $1500-$3000 per teeth
>root canal cost ~$300-$1000 + crown cost $500-$3000
Dentistry is the scammiest of all the professions.

>>11632269
>why are dental implants so expensive?
because these are not cheap

>>11639314
Failing to fear monger to the general public is not the same as telling a patient their infected gums are fine. If a dentist sees that a patient's gums a little too red and offers an appropriate course of treatment, he is not required to tell them they might get a brain infection and die just because it happens to .00001% of patients.

>>11639576
I'm this guy (>>11633610). good post anon - I assumed part of it was standardized dimensions, but you've got more experience in this area than I do