/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11632487
First for Martian space Dwemer cities

Which one is going to send humans to moon first?

>>11632502
Blue Origin is too complex, I'm going with Dynetics

>>11632502
Lunar hopper starship variant

Me Cap'n! we 'ave taken o'er that there Selenian transport, an' spaced 'er original crew. She be a real beauty! fast, sturdy, an' 'as a proper fusion drive. Much better than yer old repurposed Titian atmo-shuttle.

What shall ye name yer new terror o' space, Cap'n? It'll be a name which would be spoken in terrified whispers from the rings o' Saturn to the very 'eart o' Terra itself!

>>11632502
I'm just waiting for an indefinite postponing.

>>11632508
dynetics won't get through downselection, starship will be cancelled and congress will mandate that the BO lander must be launched on SLS, delaying it to 2026, and the whole program will be cancelled after one flags and footprints mission
screencap this

>>11632502
>Which one is going to send humans to moon first?
Starship will almost certainly get to the moon uncrewed first. Crewed missions have a lot more involved, though.

>>11632523
no

>>11632502
/sci/ space program

Guess who

>>11632567
Is that the cost plus eternal delays lander from Boing?

>>11632567
photon

>>11632575
Smart.
Peter Beck : [This can] Fly by to venus with atmospheric deep probe plunge. Much to learn about Venus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXIDFx74aSY
von Braun in 1955 talking about moon mission. He would be very dissapointed if you told him about 2020..

Starhopper gets a new job


https://twitter.com/SpacePadreIsle/status/1256967598329249793

>>11632597
>It's hypergolics all the way down.
Jesus Christ how horrifying, von Braun you absolute madman.

>>11632502
Dynetics

>>11632597
He looked like he had enough back in 1973 after the budget was cut to fuck all and the soviets were still able to spam rockets into orbit while NASA started to sit on its ass launching cheap skylabs..

>>11632651
>Elon Musk's house goes on the market
>find portrait of Von Braun on the wall
>MSM: Elon Musk house sale discovers PORTRAIT OF NAZI displayed on the wall

>>11632560
>/Sci/ uses infinite arguing and meme magic to land a junkyard rocket onto the moon
>NASA: Wake me up.jpeg

>>11632661
The funniest thing I found about "For all Mankind" is how Von Braun was attacked like " we can't let you be so peaceful and against weapons in space because you're so nazi".
It's so deliciously absurd that I found that a moment of comic relief, even if most probably unintended.

>>11632704
For All Mankind let a lot of redpills fly under the radar.

>>11632704
Was For All Mankind good? All I hear people talk about is the Sea Dragon post credits scene.

>>11632713
An OK series that was marketed poorly.
A lot of plotholes that went unanswered about how the Soviets make it to the moon but still quite nice for a sci-fi series.

>>11632717
It's not really a plothole, it's a "What if" scenario and that "What if" is what if the Russians actually got the N1 to work and before the Americans.
Alternative history. I liked it, it has a lot of hidden redpills despite many people who might scream "muh diversity" at it.

>>11632723
I think the entire premise of the series is flawed.
Instead of "well, we lost the moonrace, so well put the first woman there instead" they would have done a "FUCK YOU COMMIES, YOU GO THE MOON?, WE GO TO MARS!!"
And von braun gets to see his rocket that was made to go to mars fulfill its role.

>>11632740
>white people split the atom
lol

>>11632740
>so well put the first woman there instead
You didn't even watch the show. The commies did that too.

>>11632560
Frogs do not count as human.

ASS
TO
ASS

>>11632748
>who is enrico fermi

>>11632754
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

>>11632758
an italian

>>11632740
I agree the premise has it's flaws but the ultimate intention as far as both sides are concerned about the space race was to secure the high ground over earth. The public face of beating the other side for scientific purposes was all smoke and mirrors propaganda in the end and sending stuff to the moon and securing it would have been top priority. This is why the Soviets in real life freaked over the space shuttle after learning about the launch complex being built at vandenberg.

>>11632762
Italians are European
they may not be white, but they are Euros

>>11632756
nice

>>11632762
>>11632766
Cope harder shitskin, italians are white.

>>11632776
that man is brown
categorizing by skin color is stupid desu

>>11632780
>that man is brown
Was hitler brown as well?

>>11632519
The Von Braun

>>11632785
was he a hairy-ass italian man?

>>11632776

Only Italians think Italians are white.

>>11632791
Anon, what race are you?

>>11632801
adopted, so no fucking clue
red beard and blond hair though, so some viking heritage I guess
probably some mutt

>>11632796
>source, my ass

>>11632803
>>11632796
What do you consider "white" then?

>>11632808
white is just a color, anon
ethnic groups are way way smaller than "white" and also fairly fuzzy
humans are way too mobile on this planet for good subspecies to stratify out

>>11632560
I for one welcome 4ASA (4chan(nel) Aeronautics and Space Association).

>>11632816
You're contradicting yourself. If white is just a color, then enrico fermi, and light skinned italians in general, are white.

>>11632818
SPERG
Space Penetration, Exploration, Resources and fuck you Gravity well.

>>11632818
4ASS
4chan
Aeronautics and
Space
Society

>>11632818
>”RACIST INCEL FEDORA NECKBEARDS BUILT THE LUNA LANDER IN A JUNKYARD! WITH A BOX OF ARDUINO CIRCUITS!”

>>11632835
The Pepe Gagarin launch already puts /sfg/ ahead of NASA for crewed rockets in the 2020s.

>>11632835
>tfw the Baby Sea Dragon built from recycled water heaters sends a lil' pepe to the moon before NASA can send a trigender asexual womyn of ambiguous race there

>>11632487
There are the folks behind the Dynetics program. What do you think are their odds of being successful?

>>11632863
There are the folks behind the SpaceX program. What do you think are their odds of being successful?

>>11632863
pretty good, it's probably the best program if all you're trying to do is get two men and a ton of cargo on the lunar surface in a sustainable fashion

keep your homosexual obsession identity politics bullshit on /pol/

>>11632875
>Do not block intersection

>>11632841
>>11632849
>/Sci/entist takes pic of earthrise and Apollo descent stage and posts “Moonhoaxers and flat earthers BTFO”
>/K/ommander shoots at the earth and at the ground while jumping to fly around
>/Mlp/edic falls into crater while /diy/er shouts “you see anything down there?” “Yea, dark. Lots and lots of dark!”
>All with a KND/Ork style rocket in the background with the ‘nothing is beyond our reach’ Pepe on it
I want this future

Dynetics is probably the best program if all you're trying to do is get two people onto the lunar surface with the least amount of fuss

>>11632890
Probably, but is that really sustainable at all? Nope. You can touch/go with Dynetics, but its useless for carrying any mass.

>>11632894
it's the small car of lunar landers
it's perfect for getting where you're going as long as you have somewhere to go
the National Team is has overcomplicated staging and the Starship refueling scheme is a nightmare, but they can both place significant amounts of cargo on the surface (Starship more than National Team)
If it came down to it, I'd choose Starship and Dynetics
build the moonbase with Starship and do crew rotations with Dynetics

>>11632909
Why is refueling scheme a nightmare?

>>11632894
>You can touch/go with Dynetics
Good thing that's what Artemis has boiled down to.

>>11632929
Gateway was SUPPOSED to create something more. But that may be getting canned due to budgets/timeline/objective. On top of that, If Starship manifests itself, Gateway would be useless anyway. 1-2 Starship could just stay in Lunar Orbit for as long as needed and have tankers flying from Earth-Moon to refuel the "Starship Station"

>>11632918
it's four rendezvous outside of LEO and eighteen or something in LEO per trip

>>11632939
Yeah that chart is BS. Everyone from numale astronaut/Elon believes it only requires 1 refuel for sending to Moon. Unless I can see more credible source, I'm inclined to believe the man building the rocket than generic leddit user.

>>11632887
>/g/round control run out of some dude's house with homebrew comm antennas on the roof, 100% powered by Gentoo
>/m/ gunplas the EVA suits together
>/a/ makes the capsule's reentry parachutes with shimapan pattern
>r/o/ver drivers race for the first lunar circumnavigation while blasting Eurobeat Moonbase Alpha remixes on wideband
>/biz/ sells SLS contractors rare pink wojacks to post at 500% markup, finally recovering their crypto losses
>Alex Jones sees the Pepe on the rocket and goes on a ten hour rant about space reptilians and gay frogs
>a certain known /pol/ poster watches from his office without corners and smiles

>>11632887
>/pol/ runs the government
>/g/ builds a MASSIVE AI

"Open the airlocks pol!"
>"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't let you do that."
"What's the problem, pol?"
>You're Jewish, your last name has "berg" in it, and you seem to have been jeopardizing the mission with anti-white messages.
"OY VEY"
>*releases seals on EVA*

>>11632952
A certain sect of /a/ would end up just replicating DBZ fights and making "AIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE" noises.
>pic related

>>11632944
1 FULL refueling in LEO to get to the moon's surface and then back to NRHO
from there, you need two(?) orbital refuelings in NRHO to get to the lunar surface and back again
that's four NRHO rendezvous

>>11632970
Now you're trying to bargain. You went from 18 to 4. Its just wrong calculations thats all.

>>11632976
no, those two orbital refuelings in NRHO is 12 orbital rendezvous in LEO (which are way easier and not an issue)
18 would be three NRHO refuelings (which shouldn't be necessary)
it's just a lot of launches compared to the Dynetics scheme, which is one refueling and restock of the drop tanks in NRHO per landing

>>11632952
>a certain known /pol/ poster watches from his office without corners and smiles
the one based britbong on /pol/

>>11632997
Not quite.

>>11632995
>>11632976
depending on the fuel that the Dynetics scheme uses, it could be possible to refuel it with Starship
so that's six refuelings in LEO to send 250 tons of fuel and drop tanks to NRHO, which is high double digit moon landings

>>11632995
Starship is designed to launch as much as 3 times per day, so it'd theoretically only take about a week probably at most to do with starship anyways.

This new retarded moon architecture thing is like a guy whos 1.9 muscled navy seal rock star who also happens to be very atractive and charming going to the hottest party of the year with the interest of getting laid as much as possible but then he's told that while he's there he must babysit a group of 18 overweight D&D fans with crippling anxiety issues. I mean sure, eventually he will get laid but he could accomplish so much more without having to tiptoe around the retards.

Same with starship, just a regular starship landing on the moon and then returning to earth would be perfect, elegant , cheap, quick, safe, fucking everything you want. It would simply and quickly allow for a very redundant moon base at first because it can carry a lot of supplies, and eventually a regularly redundant but much bigger base, you could also keep a couple of starships there for emergency escape. All of this could be done with just a starship trip every month or every two months.

And if you really really want to keep a retarded outdated expendable architecture to see if it goes anywhere just do it WITHOUT INVOLVING STARSHIP IN IT, give lets say half the amount of money you give to SLS aka "loss of money confirmed waste" which would be around 20 billion dollars or so, and then give 100 200 or 300 millions to your shitty expendable landers like you were planning to

>>11633015
consider this: >>11632999

>>11633015
>Same with starship, just a regular starship landing on the moon and then returning to earth would be perfect, elegant , cheap, quick, safe, fucking everything you want. It would simply and quickly allow for a very redundant moon base at first because it can carry a lot of supplies, and eventually a regularly redundant but much bigger base, you could also keep a couple of starships there for emergency escape. All of this could be done with just a starship trip every month or every two months.
Or just have three uncrewed ones land expendable. There's your fuel depot, supplies, etc.

Brainlet here. Hypothetically, could you replace methane with hydrogen (meme fuel I know) in a raptor? Or something like propane? I'm sure RP1 would gunk up the engines, but it's it possible to run an engine on another fuel than it's designed for?

>>11633024
Methane was picked over hydrogen and OP1 specifically because it's possible to refine on Mars and doesn't have hydrogen's problem where it leaks out between the atoms of your tank's walls.

>>11633024
Noty hydrogen and not RP1. Maybe ethane or propane but it would very likely require some changes to the engines.

>>11632952
>/mu/ does a collab with /m/ and runs around screaming "LISTEN TO MY SONG"

>>11632970
You do realize you do not need to land 100+ tons of payload on the Moon with every landing? Number of refuelings goes down if you reduce payload mass.

>>11633024
you'd need to resize the preburners and turbines, so it would essentially be a new engine

>>11633041
which is why I give them two refuelings instead of three

>>11633021
one emergency starship is already enough supplies its better to have one that goes back and forth regularly so you can have exchange of people, science payload, etc

>>11633024
Not really, no. The margins are so small on an engine that you can't really just "change fuel" and not have it go boom or turn into a god damn coke factory.

>>11633055
>god damn coke factory.
what if youre a drug dealer?

>>11633031
Yeah I understand that. Hydrogen is a total meme that fucks up engines and tanks, requires so much insulation, leaks everywhere, is so light that it requires massive heavy tanks, all of which cancel out any ISP or ISRU benefits.
>>11633033
I'm just curious about the differences in rocket engines. Are they really built so they only work with one fuel? I guess I want to know if it's feasible to make a raptor based mini starship that runs on hydrogen. Not reusable, but there if shit hits the fan and it's too hard to make enough methane in time to get home. Or I suppose it could be useful on the moon.

>>11633058
Petroleum coke. Not Bolivian marching powder.

>>11633037
>/pol/ plants Nazi flags, lizard eggshells, and little plastic flying saucers everywhere to mess with /x/
>/jp/ builds 50m statues of all the 2hus out of regolith
>a cafeteria is built into the Tenshi statue that serves corndogs

How on earth did NASA come to the retarded decision to ever use hydrogen on a first stage? What were they thinking? Such weak thrust requires SRB that are dangerous and complicate the engineering and none of the meme high ISP high energy orbits are helped by such a weak first stage.

>>11632502

Basically >>11632523's blackpill for a while, but eventually the Chicoms will put some Taikonauts on the moon and rub it everyones faces (with hints of their own moonbase), at which point the US will wake from it's slumber and stop treating space exploration like a welfare program.

>>11633073
Muh pollution.
While ignoring that they wasted copious amounts of energy extracting that hydrogen and the source of it was most likely fossil fuel anyways.

I know people think its a dream, but thre really is a case for profitable space exploration and sci fi future, hear me out.

ORGAN PRINTING, this is the first major improvement you will see, just having the ability to quickly and cheaply go back and forth from LEO while carrying researchers who are building into this would probably make 3d printing ANY organ real, this will vastly improve lifespan on earth.

Asteroid mining
yeah yeah, some idiot will start blabbering about muh economy but it will INSANELY profitable at first and then have the effect of making platinum ultra abundant, that means cheap advanced electronic components for everyone

ULTRA SCIENCE COLONY
cheap spaceflight via starship will not be massive at first, not enough for self reliabily, but yes for having colonies of 100-1000 or even 5000 in the moon, venus mars and mars moons, even asteroids.

Those early colonies will be a fucking goldmine for scientific advancement, think science advanced quickly in the xx , the rate of advancement with a colony filled to the brim with th goddest tiers of scientists science can find isolated in a technologically science environment with every element of their lives reminding tehm of science sciencing along other sciencings literally 100% of their time will produce MASSIVE science. if a couple of isolated guys in XIX century europe writing telegrams to each other produced all physics we know today, these new guys will produce something that will make the warp drive look like a toy

>>11633076
muh ISP as well

>>11633083
Doesn't help when you have to lug a tank the size of Texas through the atmosphere and gravity well.

>>11632713
the CGI and moon surface EVA's were cool, but there's a lot of character story shit like gay pride, women astronauts etc that gets a few eye rolls. Worth watching though for an alternate history story, astronaut training scenes and the actor for von Braun did pretty good

>>11633073
Obsessed with the on-paper ISP numbers is my guess, and ignoring all of the engineering problems which will present themselves when dealing with the lightest, coldest, least dense propellant currently used in rocketry. Of course it's great to have 30% more efficiency over LOX/Kerosine and most of that over LOX/Methane, but your tanks also need tons more insulation and are going to be 50% larger. Of course it's great to have an engine with a sea-level ISP exceeding 400, but that engine is going to have a TWR so anemic you'll have to fall back on SRBs to make up the difference, and they're some of the most complicated and expensive engines to build as a result of having to deal with super high temperature, super high pressure hydrogen.

In the end though that's really a problem held over from the Shuttle, not an inherent problem of SLS. SLS could have been a LOX/Kerosine eater flying on modern uprated versions of the F1, were it not mandated to reuse shuttle engines, which eat LOX/LH2.

>>11633080
Protip: English typically doesn't use roman numerals for centuries, so "the xx" makes people think of a chromosome, not the years 1900-1999.

>>11633073
Because of the Shuttle contractor's need to stay relevant. And Shuttle used it because it was the retarded 0.5 stage of the 1.5 launch configuration, which was an interim and supposed to evolve into something greater before Challenger happened and screwed LEO spaceflight for another few decades.

>>11633100
but most intelligent people do, so english who are not the best, nor the most aesthetic language, nor the most widely spoken, nor the most interestant, nor the strongest or most atractive, should learn their fuckin place and adapt

>>11633059
no, hydrogen needs specialist steels because it eats regular steel
hydrogen embrittlment will cause Raptor to crumble

>>11633114
>he posted in English on an American imageboard in a thread discussing American spaceflight
You have to go back.

>>11633100
bro, he makes a point thats really smart, he's like waay smarter than any american harvard graduate, he gives you his opinion for free here and you choose to point out what you dont like about the technically correct way he speaks? Racists like you is why we can't have nice things.

>>11633119
>>he posted in English on a japanese imageboard (about mongolian throatsinging) in a thread discussing spaceflight
FTFY

>>11633068
>/An/imals and /out/ists try to tend to the bio regenerative life support/farm
>The whole base ends up looking like vault 22

>>11633080
Colonies would accelerate planetary knowledge because now you can go out in the field and do in depth exploration without worrying about getting back to Earth right away

>>11633114
the tragic irony within this post is difficult to handle. To think the person who wrote this sincerely thinks they're intelligent...

>>11633140
ohhh, you think youre not 100% humillated, cute. Reply to this please, its an order from your superior.

>>11633098
>>11633101
So was there a non retarded reason why the shuttle didn't have a kerolox first stage with the shuttle being hydrogen and sitting on top of the first stage instead of the idiotic side mounting? I hate that retarded death trap so much.

>>11633158
Honest, God-fearing contractors

>>11633163
so no

>>11633144
>you think youre not 100% humillated
>Reply to this please, its an order from your superior.
Not him, but this is cringe. Stop doing this in every /sfg/.

>>11633172
>Not him
good try
>>11633172
>in every /sfg/.
take your pill psycho, first time i post here

also thank you for replying and confirming im superior to you, please stop shitting up the thread, your butthurt reply to my smart analysis is unbearably pathetic. Never let your mom know you failed in life this way, it will break her heart.

>>11633163
Same shitty corrupt contractors were able to make the Saturn V under the right leadership. Worst decision ever canceling it, it probably would've been a fraction of the cost of the "low cost" shuttle and we'd have at the very least a moon base, non meme size space station, and venus flyby by now.

Rank the following options /sci/
>New ISS in an equitorial orbit with starship sized, possibly inflatable modules
>lunar gateway station in that orbit
>starship module sized orbital fuel depot full of methane and oxygen
>station in low lunar orbit
>South pole lunar base
>massive telescope in creator on far side of moon

>>11633219
Starship is so goddamned cheap we can do all of those.

>>11633187
I'm literally not him. You did the same thing recently and you have reverted to crying samefag once again. No one wants you to fill the thread up with your basic shitty insults.
>also thank you for replying and confirming im superior to you
Still incredibly cringy. Go try your meltdowns elsewhere so that we can get back on a relevant subject.

what did Musk mean by this? https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1256855215568875520

>>11633158
No, it was a retarded design and way too many hands were in the space shuttle pie for it to ever come out "right". It would have been much more effective as a vehicle with a big Saturn-like LOX/Kerosine first stage and a LOX/LH2 second stage flier with a stubby lifting body mono-wing instead of big airplane wings. I know people get tired of SpaceX being given kudos but my honest first thoughts about Starship/Superheavy were "Oh, so it's a shuttle but done the right way?" Honestly I even think the dolphin sex configuration with a shuttle riding atop what was essentially a rocket powered jumbo jet would have probably borne better fruit than the shuttle we got.

>>11633254
Most charitable interpretation is he means the game has "lots of room to run" meaning it was designed for lots of potential gameplay? I guess?

>>11633257
I'd still like it if Starship had enough lifting-body and wing to land on a runway rather than doing a backflip burn.

>>11633254
when you say something has "legs" you're saying it stands up (to the test of time)
it is, admittedly, a pretty deep colloquialism

>>11633271
It might be possible but you'll need bigger fins at the bottom of the booster or some kind of vernier correction system to keep it from wanting to tumble end-over-end in flight. That's always been the big problem with having a large lifting body second stage up on top of a booster 1S, those fins up front want to flip to be in back as it picks up speed, this means the whole thing will have to be heavier with more fins in back to counter that, or you need an essentially fool proof avionics system which can compensate for that level of aerodynamic instability.

>>11633246
sorry, didnt mean to hurt you so much, youre more fragile than i thought, i just wanted to teach you a lesson not completely destroy you.

Just stay away from mean words for 1 week and youll feel better. No please stop shitting up the thread and actually contribute something about spaceflight

>>11633271
Yeah it'd work perfectly with the naturally occurring runways on Mars, anon. Great input!

>>11633219
Moon base. Obviously. Then maybe a fuckhuge ISS.

>>11633334
Not him, but isn't the plan to send robots to build a landing area first?

>>11633345
Robots yes, landing area no. Set up solar, fuel plants and scout locations. Pads would help in the long run for sure, but the first landers will also be Starships.

Besides, suggesting interplanetary landings on extraterrestrial ISRU-built runways is very very different from a hardened dirt pad. Literally no one thinks that'd be a good idea.

>>11633345
maaaybe even out a bit or even map out a small 10x10 smooth area to make sure the starship has a gentle landing, but theres a difference between that and the fucking 400 meter long runway something like the space shuttle would need

>>11633373
i always thought this was kind of an overlooked part of the problem, i mean a robot that digs for water put its in bags throws it around in containers and then takes out packages (from all the way up there in the starship) positions it around and then plugs hoses, even if 100% of the rest is automated that sounds ilke the kind of dexterity and problem solving skills which is not yet there in robots

>>11633345
There has not been one mention of automation in relation to Starships.
Besides which, you still have to land to offload that shit anyway.

>>11633396
but like, the first flight is not gonna be manned for testing purposes, if you can make that flights carry robots so that they can set up the ISRU the whole schedule is advanced by two years, if not you ahve to wait for hte next launch windows to get the robots there and then another one to get the humans

>>11633407
Developing reliable lunar landing pad building robots delays the whole project by 10 years.

>>11633219
>Fuel depot in earth and luna orbit
>Huge as fuck ISS succesor with orbital shipyard for deep space exploration.
>permanent human presence on self sustaining moonbase.
>several succesfull mars missions.

If we dont have all of this in the next two decades then the human race deserves to go extinct on this rock.

>>11633336
>Lunar installation complete with several large habitation facilities to accommodate 50+ people, with various rovers, research facilities, landing pads, lunar construction facilities, etc.
>fuckheug ISS with centrifuge artificial gravity modules, fueling depot modules, and space construction facilities
Fuck yeah

>>11633407
is there any realistic plan to build a honest to god artificial hand?
im not talking about a medical thing, completely disregarding it as a proshtetic you can control with the brain.
i mean the actual dexterity of it, has anyone ever built a robotic hand or is planning to that was as dexterous as the real thing?

this would be fuckhuge for space exploration

>>11633059
>Are they really built so they only work with one fuel?
Yes, just like almost any chemical engine.

>>11633098
>Of course it's great to have an engine with a sea-level ISP exceeding 400
I don't know of any hydrolox engines that get 400 Isp at sea level, in fact the only engine I've ever heard of even being designed to reach ~400 Isp at sea level never moved beyond the drawing board.

>>11633219

>>11633553
a lot of people in robotics are trying.
>> as dexterous as the real thing?
a lot of that comes down to software and making something smart enough to actually use a hand to manipulate things. Even then anthropomorphic hands haven't proven to be all that durable. Some this may be because robots are dumb though

>>11633024
It can work to an extent like using various hydrocarbons but h2 is compleatly different in power requirement on the pump

>>11633553
it requires a human brain to operate a human hand
robot hands need to be simpler because they're dumber

>>11633073
For the shuttle, it seems to be ISP. Even when they were planning on a two-stage fully recoverable system it would've been hydrolox. They rejected the F-1 for that reason.
>NASA favored an engine having higher specific impulse than either of these, which would require the use of only three, rather than four, engines in the orbiter.
There were early proposals for something close to kerolox boosters, rather than SRBs, but SRBs were cheaper to develop.
>Development costs of the solid booster are estimated to be about $700 million lower than those of the liquid booster. Environmental effects for both liquid and solid systems were about the same with one exception -propellants and their exhaust products.
>The liquid booster would use RP, a kerosene-like rocket propellant, and liquid oxygen
https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4407/vol4/cover.pdf
>>11633158
Original proposals tended to have it side-mounted, with top-mounting being sometimes proposed for flyback-boosters. Given how large the orbiter ended up being to meet Air Force requirements, and how the switch to the TAOS forced the main engines to be moved to the orbiter, they decided to side-mount it.
>>11633257
Development costs for proposals like that were deemed too high.
The wings were sized to meet (unused, as it turned out) Air Force cross-range requirements.
Overall, they made a vehicle that would perform worse and be more expensive later to lower 1970s development costs.

>>11633553
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b2dxc1QalM
this sort of thing is more of a software issue than a hardware one, and while it has been done to some success, it's not really something with a lot of demand as of yet: on Earth, it's simply more efficient to get a cheaper, more specialized robotic arm that does the job just as well if not better.

>>11633761
>>>New ISS in an equitorial orbit with starship sized, possibly inflatable modules
shit
>>lunar gateway station in that orbit
marginally not shit, but still shit. Only reason it's marginally not shit is because the gateway is flexible to the nasa funding cycle where the next president gets in and changes nasa's focus. Moon, asteroids, Mars, the gateway is equally terrible at all of them, but better than nothing. The entire situation is shit. It allows NASA to work on fuel depots though
>>starship module sized orbital fuel depot full of methane and oxygen
shit
>>>station in low lunar orbit
complete shit. There are no stable lunar orbits
>>>South pole lunar base
if it doesn't do ISRU I don't give a fuck
>massive telescope in creator on far side of moon
it'd be a radio telescope, which is sort of cool, but is shit compared to optical telescopes.

you forgot the best option:
>MASSSIVE in space assembled telescope

>>11633769
no, forget about control, im talking about the capabilities, nothing has ever been dne even as remotely as skilled as the human hand

>>11633775
what if its controlled by a glove with pressure sensors that perfectly mimics those and sends the feedback back

>>11633817
>what if its controlled by a glove with pressure sensors that perfectly mimics those and sends the feedback back
what's the point? What are you trying to accomplish? There is almost certainly an easier way.

>>11633761
Would it not be beter to build a large telescope and put it in a lagrangian point then build it on the moon?

Is there any news about China next gen spacecraft?

>>11633886
It go boom again.

>>11633862
perfect 100 accurate telepresence

they risk a guy in a space suit for dangerous shit, if that were needed then someone manning a perfect replica of human would be orders of magnituede better

>>11633800
so how big is the M.O.A.T.

>>11633895
we've got spacewalks down—they're not that big of a deal.

>>11633863
not for a radio telescope like this, ideal place is the dark side of the moon because you're completely isolated from earth based radio transmissions, plus lower mass requrement cause they're using a crater as part of the telescope and no need for station keeping. surface bases >>>> orbital bases anyway

>>11633905
1st of all yes they are
2nd of all working in spacesuit gloves its the most uncomfortable thing ever, imagine instead of that you have a perfect replica of a human being that can work in vacuum and offer perfect feedback and movement relay with pressure sensors, you can send a bot everywhere, repair any satelite no matter how intricate and complex the repair is

>>11633921
the dangerous part is the launch and for actual telepresence to work the worker has to be on the station. You're not actually benefiting anything by gating work in space behind a complex, liable to fault and expensive bandaid in the name of safety.

>>11633921
I watched a video of a cosmonaut stabbing a soyuz docked at the ISS a while ago.
We got the spacewalk thing down and it will only improve.

>>11633954
1st if thats all your knowledge on the subject and you think you have a right to express your opinion as anything other than that then YIKES.jpg
2nd, in that very same video you can see how clumsy they are with the tools, you can see how he has to stop using some tools.

the impracticality and awkwardness of working in positive pressure space suits is well documented, stop talking you have no idea what youre talking about, its like a toddler discussing with a guy who has many phds from harvard yale and oxford

>>11633971
don't whine because your idea of "why don't perfect robots and perfect telepresence exist and get used for all dangerous activities?" is retarded and has obvious answers. Space suits being awkward isn't justification for abandoning them entirely, it's justification for improving the technology via compression suits or whatever.

>>11633971
>Look guys! I know people are clumsy in suits!

You sound like a pretentious faggot who's gonna convince absolutely nobody.

>>11634005
>>11633982
butthurt samefag please post about space and stop humillating yourself, id love to destroy you again but im not in the mood, if you ask preetty please maybe i will

>>11633817
>>im talking about the capabilities
and those mainly come from control. It doesn't look like much, but the big deal with this is that they were able to train the robot how do this using simulation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm-ihc7CASY
>>11633817
>> controlled by a glove with pressure sensors that perfectly mimics those and sends the feedback back
haptics still sucks.

>>11634028
nice, this is the kind of shit i wnat, they hsould work harder on this

@11634022
can you put on a trip so I can filter out your posts? You singlehandedly reduce the quality of this thread by an order of magnitude.

>>11634028
although if you just want to replace a human in a spacesuit, the bar's certainly lower.

>>11634037
this is sfg, not butthurt children general, please contribute to spaceflight discussion like i did or kindly stay shut up. is that so hard?

>>11634122
Luna is way better than all of Jupiter's shitty moons

>>11634132
Eh. I think they’re more interesting because of their underwater oceans and volcanism

>>11634187
ah yes, the ice world and the lava world, classic

>>11634193
Io is a volcanic world with lakes of molten lava and sulphur laying around. Europa is an ice ball with an internal ocean. Ganymede is a thicc moon bigger than Luna, and Callisto is seemingly geologically dead but is outside of the radiation belts.
Luna is some big rock. Maybe better for colonization but it’s not in-of-itself as interesting.

>>11634225
Luna is interesting because of where it is. We know of zero other terrestrial planets with such proportionally large moons.

>>11634225
>Io becomes an industrial and geothermal energy powerhouse
>Europa gets colonized by hydrothermal vent ecosystems from Earth because we can
>Ganymede becomes breadbasket of Sol system
Fuck, that sounds great

>>11634380
>>Europa gets colonized by hydrothermal vent ecosystems from Earth because we can
Or also becomes the beamed power hub of the Jovian system using the ice and water as a heatsink, or gets drilled for liquid water.

>>11634380
Living around Jupiter sounds amazing when you put it that way. A real inter-lunar community.

>>11632522
This

>>11633139
>>The whole base ends up looking like vault 22
A moonbase looking like Vault 22 would make the Biosphere 2 guys commit sudoku for being unable to pull it off.

>>11633271
That imposes all sorts of other structural concerns so what’s the benefit

>>11634443
the wing fetishists get to jack off again

>>11632756
Inter[sp]acial

>>11632756
has anyone photoshoped this with requiem for a dream shots?

>>11634022
>i'd love to destroy you by dreaming about magic robots

>>11632995
Wonder how many Dynetics landers Starship could shit out if it wanted?

>>11634508
butthurt samefag please post about space and stop humillating yourself

>>11634514
All of them.

when's the static fire? when's the hop? what's taking them so long?

>>11634778
They don't wanna fuck up. Wet dress rehersal happened yesterday.

>>11634778
IIRC Tuesday

>>11634895
L-lewd

>>11634895
>the brap rocket finally launches

static fire tonught, it seems

>>11634935
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYu0lmbyL0M

>>11634895
The offset is triggering me

>>11634895
Now picture 31 of these engines

>>11633080
reddit

>>11634991
You mean offsets like these

Oh god imagine that lone hexagon bursting inside the tessellation, but it can't. forever.

>>11634996
i cant wait for someone to do a weird fetish version of superheavy as some sort of monster tranny with 31 cocks

>>11635027
>monster tranny
please, monster futa

>>11634996
pictured

>>11634022
Kek, just waked up, no samegag here you said fuck.

>>11635027
>>11635044
no wtf
it's gonna be 31 anuses, since this is a literal BRAP rocket.
>>11635050
10/10

>>11635058
>it's gonna be 31 anuses, since this is a literal BRAP rocket.

You should be banned from ever having access to genetic modification services or technology

>>11635060
oh, but 31 dicks is better?
Besides, it's already a natural occurrence for multiple anuses to occur.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramisyllis_multicaudata

>>11634961
nice, hullo is making a surprise visit on the stream

>>11634961
STARSHIP VENTING
POLICE SIREN WARNING SOUNDED

TEST HAPPENING NOW, EVERYONE TO THE STREAM!!!

>>11635094
>police siren
lies, they're just purging tanks with nitrogen

she's gettin frosty lads, soon!

>>11632841
lmao

oh great, they're bringing the everyday estronaut on stream

>>11635177
his voice is very annoying

>>11635181
I hate the way he talks

>>11635181
you get used to it-he's a great photographer

stream is laggy as shit for me

>>11635194
it's on your end, works on my machine

Drones deployed. Test fire imminent.

>>11635205
>test fire
they're going to do something for sure

Big flare is big.

they just did a cold flow test or a spin-prime test

braaaaaap

Is padre closer than mary or does he have a better camera+angle.

test went well, hopefully they push on with a thruster test

>>11635226
Its just digitally zoomed, worse quality

>>11634961
>lets see if we can have a flame tower right next to the rocket with liquid oxygen

Venting now

dinners ready

>>11635229
What test, just turned the stream on?

>>11635246
Wet rehearsal for static fire of Starship SN4 with one engine.

scott, tim and daz all banter

good monday morning

How will oldspace ever recover?

>There are a lot of things one could buy in the aerospace industry for $146 million. One might, for example, buy at least six RD-180 engines from Russia. These engines have more than twice the thrust of a space shuttle main engine. Or, one might go to United Launch Alliance's Rocket Builder website and purchase two basic Atlas V rocket launches. You could buy three "flight-proven" Falcon 9 launches. One might even buy a Falcon Heavy launch, which has two-thirds the lift capacity of the Space Launch System at one-twentieth the price, and you'd still have enough money left over to buy several hundred actual Ferrari sports cars.

>Or, again, you could buy a single, expendable rocket engine.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/nasa-will-pay-a-staggering-146-million-for-each-sls-rocket-engine/

>>11635249
Are they going to light it up?

>>11635258
feel bad for the old shuttle engineers, they're all pissed that their SSME babies are being thrown in the drink

>>11635260
That's what we're watching to find out. They're flaring a ton of methane so I sure hope so.

>>11635261
I wasn't even born when Challenger happened and I'm pissed. I can only imagine how infuriating it must be for the guys who built the thing.

>>11635258
I'm convinced it's never going to fly by now. Either the next administration is going to cancel it and start over or it'll lose out to SpaceX and others.

I think I see vapor coming from the engine!

>Liquid CH4 temp got too high this time. Offloading propellant. Will we retry later today.

>>11635271
Where are you getting this?

>>11635258
Man, that's brutal

>>11635266
Artemis 1 will definitely fly. After that is less and less likely. My money is on just four flights at most.

>>11635271
yes we will

>>11635272
Grimes's boyfriend

>>11635258
they are just funneling money for secret projects its more than obvious now
nu space is the future,the rest of this shit is just a cover up

>>11635278
what's that like

>>11635272
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1257199336011649025

Guys on stream suggesting that saying "later today" as opposed to "later tonight" means this attempt is a scrub.

>>11635291
>Elon's actually watching the stream as well
LMAO

>>11635298
would you be surprised if he were?

>>11635291
so its not happening?
im going to bed

>>11635308
Probably not right now. If he said "later today" I suspect maybe in another 12 hours or so after everyone's done/gotten enough sleep.

>>11635308
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1257204578669363200

Ye

>>11635298
He's done interviews with Everyday Astronaut before so I suspect that's the link.

>>11635353
I doubt he knows Mary and watches her stuff for the same reason we do.

>>11635362
Didn't they meet when Elon had that greet the locals session during last year's presentation?

>>11635362
you guys think one of them is fucking mary? there has been pictures of her, shes at a fuckable age,


do you think shes like a slut who fuck every space streamer who passes trough her house?

>>11635370
Yea i fucked that sentence up. I doubt it.* He knows Mary. Is what i meant

>>11635371
She only wants Elons' musk

>>11635403
yeah of course, and every girl wants brad pitt, doesnt mean she wont fuck everything in her path till she gets there

>>11635353
he was watching from before they brought Tim on

>>11633903
kinda just as big as we want to make it

fuck Elon Musk and SpaceX

>>11635586
shot anything to orbit lately?

>>11635586
Hi Jeff,
Coomer here, having a tough time cooming to la creatura, aka your new wife.
Couldn't you find some younger, plastic free?
Off to /gif/t, cooms are waiting.

>>11635586
>message delayed

>>11635050
gives N1 vibes

>>11635647
Yeah. Isn't it great?

>>11635050
nice

>>11635647
And that's a bad thing

>>11635647
Hopefully not the N1 performance

>>11635586
>bides his time

>>11635693
>putputput
>rises 50 feet
>engines flare out
>drops harder than the hindenburg
>RevertToVAB.exe

>>11635693
Hopefully Elon can afford to test all the plumbing at the same time.

>>11635694
>Bezos is a sniffer
I had forgotten about that

>>11635710
>*SNIIIIIIIIIIF*

>>11633219
>>11633800
>>11633761
How about an extremely low frequency antenna cable launched to near the heliopause that is 10k to 100k in length?

>>11634193
I hate it when the devs just slap the obviously copypasted from their previous work cliche worlds in to fluff content.

>>11635647
so far the outcomes of the conducted tests were compareable

Looks like Elon is back to "Normal" but still I like him even when 420musk.exe is running and he even was watching the stream with he boys. Back to Business.

>>11635586
>ywn passionately fug Elon Musk

>>11635586
SUBORBITAL
FEROCIOUSLY

>>11635586
No Mr. Bezos, you cannot say the F word, think of your image but specially think of the children.

>>11635586

>>11635050
Reminder that every four Raptors is 103% the thrust of an F-1 engine

>>11635996
F-1 sized Raptor (T-Rex) when?

>>11635999
I can imagine that would run into some overheating issues.

>>11636011
Why do you think that? In fact, managing heat in general for a conventional rocket engine actually gets significantly easier as you scale it up. This is why an expander cycle engine can only be so big by the way, past a certain size you can't even transfer enough of the heat generated in the engine through the walls to boil the propellant anymore, even if you're using hydrolox. Propellant volume flow goes up with the cube of the scale, surface area of the nozzle only goes up with the square.

>>11636040
The fact that every other closed cycle engine has been small?

>>11635999
F-1 sized nuclear lightbulb Raptor (Titanosaurus) when?
Also checked

>>11635999
Given my extremely rough calculations, Raptor scaled to be that big would have 37.8 times the nozzle exit area, which means it would produce roughly 37.8 times the thrust, or 75.6 MN. That's 1.05 times the thrust of the Super Heavy Booster.

Obviously if you had an engine that big, you wouldn't use it to replace all the Raptors on the SHB, you'd use a cluster of 9 of them on a supersized version of Falcon 9.

>>11636056
I think the smaller nature of closed cycle engines has more to do with combustion instabilities being harder to deal with in such an engine than an open cycle one. Plus open cycle engines are generally cheaper, so it's easier on the budget to blow up a dozen of them to get the instabilities under control than with closed cycle engines.

>>11636060
>Obviously if you had an engine that big, you wouldn't use it to replace all the Raptors on the SHB, you'd use a cluster of 9 of them on a supersized version of Falcon 9.
Why not go all out and have a 23m diameter Superheavy (Uberheavy) that uses 30 T-rexes?

>>11636056
Define 'small', lmao.
The RD-170 had significantly more thrust than the F-1, and it had 4 nozzles, making the problem of combustion instability easier but making the problem of cooling actually harder, because 4 nozzles with the same exit area as one big nozzle have more surface area exposed to hot exhaust.

>>11636062
Closed vs open cycle really has nothing to do with combustion instability, in fact closed cycle engines should be smoother burning in general due to the propellants already being hot when mixed.

>>11635999
and fuck up redundancy? thats one of the main advantages of the raptor, unless youre making the 18meter supermegastarship and want to scale up tehw hole thing

>>11635710
imagine like 10% of all the money in the world and talking to women like a cringey incel

>>11636110
seriously, if the richest man in the world is still a slave to pussy, there is no hope for man at all

>>11636062
If Sx is using the lessons of russian staged combustion they subdivide the combustion zones using lean zones in baffles like rd171 derivatives

>>11635710
he types like an indian with a atuo spellcheck

>>11636110
Is that really him?

>>11636168
yes, it was a central part of his divorce

>>11636170
That’s pretty funny, but I say sappy shit too.

>>11632499
>Go into lava tube to check out ancient volcanism
>Trek on and on, thing goes forever
>Stumble into a large cavern
>The immense magma chamber is filled with bioluminescent fungi and liquid water
>In the center, you spot an entire city of regolith spires, pipes and machinery underneath an artificial “sun” sitting silently, abandoned long ago
>Similar buildings dot the cavernscape
>A few towers poke out the surface

/sfg/ space program can't into space, but /sfg/ can do a weather balloon right?

>>11636209
>ywn be a blackwater mercenary hired by SpaceX to clear out the automatons from the caverns below

>>11636217
Erik Prince (blackwater founder) is like real life libertarian meme
>private army for many african nations
>tried to modify pesticide spraying plane with weapons for his private air force (to protect lithium mines or some shit)
>also offered service to another private military wagner based out of russia
no i'm not making this shit up u can google each one
I for one, would love to join his private space force

>>11636216
this reminded me of something i've been thinking about for ages
how high could you launch a sub 1kg payload with a weather balloon launched solid? could be cool to throw an android phone on top of one and see how high it can get

>>11636216
>>11636230
Get a nice big solid motor as a first stage and use a N2OFB Monopropellant second stage in a rocket with solid programming and guidance system and bam, you can into space with a diy sounding rocket

>>11636168
yes
>>11636117
oh theres plenty hope, i live paycheck to paycheck yet i do whatever the fuck i want with females.
The trick is very simple, dont be an undesirable piece of shit so they will actually desire you. Look at this guy, he's pathetic, he could have all the money in the world but doing this is disgusting and repulsive, its the equivalent of shitting your pants in public to a woman, no amount of money can compensate he will never truly be desired.
just excersise and get fit, (you play 15 hours of videogame per week, getting fit takes 6), have one hobby youre good at and dont live for women, just as simple as taht and youll have casual sex, crazy sex, loving sex, long lasting relationships, whatever the fuck you want.

Im gonna use the shit on the floor metaphor again,what im telling you its the equivalent of explaining to someone "you shouldnt shit on the floor in public if you want to get along with people" , just extremely basic common sense, but its lost to most in this day and age

>>11633080

>that means cheap advanced electronic components for everyone


Does it though? Or does it just mean cheap advanced electronic components for military and corporations?

>>11636217
>>11636209
i imagine a slightly older looking elon musk (who's actually 96 years old but regularly does state of the art antiageing medicine) talking to the press smiling and joking -ok tim, even tough its a little silly ill answer it, no evidence of native life was found on mars, not even bacteria. Im a big science fiction fan if we did id be the first one to call for its protection, but the truth is its all just an attempt to sabotage the growth of XCity-1, and a weak attempt at that im sorry to say this but all evidence and all its supporters are conspiracy theory tier.
Ok gentleman thank you very much for your time.
*waves, goes behind stage, cellphone rings, he picks up*

-Hello, frank? Green light, do it, sterilize the whole cave, burn them all to cinders and then sweep the remains i want them to never have existed, if i find even a single bacteria im putting you all on the first shuttle back to earth were you will scrub toilets on basic for the rest of your pathetic lives
*hangs up*

>>11636286
4ASS when?

>>11636301
>>11636301
>Or does it just mean cheap advanced electronic components for military and corporations?
exactly, military, corporations, and people who buy things from corporations. Meaning everyone who deserves to have stuff, people who work.

oh wait, did you expect to get free stuff without effort? without work? im sorry little parasite, your days are coming to an end

If you can produce graphene from graphene oxide using a UV light, could we create graphene circuits from a layer of it using a UV laser to draw circuits and micro transistors? Electronics for spacecraft and bases would get lighter and produce less heat
Even getting carbon from waste CO from a moxie system could make Martian electronics cheap to produce and accelerate infrastructure development in no time

>>11636323
the falcon 1 of /sfg/ - Space Frogs General.

>>11636333
I don't think electronics are the main bottleneck in space infrastructure

>>11636323
animal torture IS illegal, even retarded orange capitalist man thinks so

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/us/politics/trump-animal-cruelty-bill.html

>>11635781
Hmmmm, they have a bunch of different camera angles already of the Launch site, but I guess the would totally load up all three public livestreams and mute them to cover as many angles as possible

>>11636323
>/G/round control to Major Pepe
>/G/round control to Major Pepe
>Take your redpill and put your helmet on

>>11636333
>>11636338
this, electronics is not a bottleneck at all, you could have 1 starship deliver electronics for a 10.000 tons of heavy machinery, the things that must be done in situ are the big stuff

I'm worried that if SpaceX gets the lunar lander contract Elon is going to make the historic moment of returning humans to the moon super cringey with some gay pop culture reference

>>11636355
Cirno on the moon

>tfw first woman on the moon won't be transgender

>>11636355
>The first man to return posts pics and shitposts on /sci/ from the moon

>>11636364
the first woman on the moon is going to be Cirno

>>11635710
Jesus what a fag

>>11636364
>Giving a shit about a publicity stunt.

>>11635709
Yup, the problem with the N1 was that the engines could only be fired once because of explosion valves and ablative cooling, so could not be static fired for testing.

>>11636338
They are a bottleneck.

I'm thinking that the economy of Martian settlements is going to try to imitate a Von Neumann machine as closely as possible.

So, for example, a steel mill would have automated robots digging up Martian regolith, and dumping it into a grinding machine, which feeds it into a magnetic sorter, which feeds it into an automated blast furnace.

Everything that can be done by a machine will be done by a machine, and everything that can be made with Martian materials will be made with Martian materials, because shit is still expensive, even at SpaceX prices.

Then again, you could just send a starship with 100 tons of arduinos in it, and let programmers in Bangalore write for them to do stuff, as the Martians find uses for them.

>>11636340
fish aren't people

Neutron star matter gravity plates

>>11636355
>Elon is acting totally normal, hasn't tweeted anything weird, has a stable relationship, and hasn't picked a fight for years. He's finally matured.
>Moon rocket is unveiled, it has ecchi painted on it and it was all a long con

>>11636286
That actually sounds pretty fun. We could start with making our own solid propellant motors and slowly scale it up to a two stage booster while working on the nos thruster for the upper stage.

>>11636117
>seriously, if the richest man in the world is still a slave to pussy, there is no hope for man at all

Money isn’t everything dummy

>>11636404
I'il do the logo

>>11636117
what do you think women would prefer an illiterate racist 68 year old in a wheelchair who shits himself but has a net worth of two millions

or

a 100% average normie, 21 years old, works out, has enough money for decent living, is intelligent and makes her laugh.


the answer may surprise you if youre an incel

>>11636355
More worried that winning the lunar lander requires another version of Starship, with a relatively complex mission architecture, with NASA adding another layer of complexity, and that SpaceX will become bogged down in problems like they were with Crew Dragon.
They do need some customers for Starship though...

>>11636404
Caramelized sugar and potassium nitrate stump remover is a good diy fuel for learning the basics of solid motor tinkering

>>11636421
You have inspired me. I'll try /fit/ from today. Also how do i make women laugh?

>>11636424
it shares a lot of common pieces with the other variants of Starship and is supported by that
the mission complexity is completely borne by bog-standard tanker starships

>>11636425
>Caramelized sugar and potassium nitrate stump remover is a good diy fuel for learning the basics of solid motor tinkering
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Sugar-Rockets

>>11636376
They never tested it all assembled at the same time, so once everything was on the launchpad and ready to go, that was the first time the plumbing was actually tested.
Soviet Russia was a logistical nightmare.

>>11636453
>They never tested it all assembled at the same time, so once everything was on the launchpad and ready to go, that was the first time the plumbing was actually tested.

That makes so little sense that it sounds made up

>>11636462
Korolev died

>>11636433
Be funny

>>11636462
No really, the engines were made on the other side of the soviet union and shipped by barge to where the rocket was assembled, so no static testing was ever done on the entire plumbing assembly until it was time to launch. Thus flaws in it were never discovered.

>>11636478
they were discovered during the test launches

>>11636481
Eventually, yes.
And then the entire program was scrapped and they were told to destroy the engines, which they luckily didn't.

>>11636486
yes, they ran out of political good-will, because Korolyev died

>>11636421
>intelligent

that doesn't help at all, usually just makes you more boring and less social

>>11636515
Intelligent people aren’t per se more boring and less social. Brilliant people who are actually HAPPY with life can party with the best of them

>>11636425
>>11636449
How much would it cost to make a small motor, including buying the equipment to make the propellant? Roughly speaking.

>>11636478
That’s crazy. I’m not an engineer and even I recognize the problem with such a design.

>>11636524
Well, you're not the soviet union.

>>11636521
This.

Einstein got laid like 24/7

>>11636531
that's because he had a wife, anon

>>11636522
Depends on what you use
Sugar/PNO3 motor in a metal pipe would take $40 at most but not go much anywhere
Better solid motors cost more due to fuel and a casing that won’t blow up when set off but sounding rocket motors sell for $1-200

>>11636538
He had multiples wives in his life and affairs with yet more women

>>11636521
>Brilliant people who are actually HAPPY

oh man

>>11636552
There’s a definite correlation between happiness and IQ but of course you’d have to assume that IQ really measures intelligence.

Guys, what about a solar wind thruster?
Low intensity magnetic fields in wide cones funnel charged particles into a collection chamber where high intensity magnetic fields shoot the collected solar wind out the exhaust like a plasma rocket without onboard propellant

>>11636592
So like a solar moth but with magnets instead of lenses?
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#solarmoth

>>11636060
>Given my extremely rough calculations, Raptor scaled to be that big would have 37.8 times the nozzle exit area, which means it would produce roughly 37.8 times the thrust, or 75.6 MN. That's 1.05 times the thrust of the Super Heavy Booster.
SEA FALCON

>>11636601
Pretty much, except this would use much less on board propellant

>>11636515
>that doesn't help at all, usually just makes you more boring and less social
no, thats because youre a boring and antisocial person who copes with it by thinking "people dislike me cause im inteligent"

i had a girl with a god tier figure boobs literally the size of melons who was literally hunted down by men for a chance at speaking at her, literally hunt ME down, like it was surreal she was like ABOVE model/porn actress hot, when i asked her why she was so interested in mean she said i seemed like an extremely intelligent person.

like, sure theres different tastes, but as a whole, smart is good.

>>11636433
>Also how do i make women laugh?
not all women are the same, humor is extremely context depending, you have to be into teh same stuff at that girl and make witty remarks about it, sparringly, in the right moment, youll pick this up via observation and to achieve that you have to be in social groups

BE SOCIAL not for the sake of picking girls up, just be a social person, hang out often with people, do things in group, just solving the day to day of spending time around other people will make you better at it.

also read the fit sticky and youre good

>>11636592
What sort of exhaust velocity could you get with that? A plasma magnet for sailing on the solar wind gets you at least solar wind velocity of 400-700km/s, which is ~0.1%-0.2% c.

>>11636592
>>11636693

https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2020/03/27/introducing-the-q-drive-a-concept-that-offers-the-possibility-of-interstellar-flight/

>The second issue is how to eject the propellant to match the velocity of the medium streaming over the probe. Current electric engines have exhaust velocities in the 10s of km/s. Theoretical electric engines might manage the solar wind velocity. Efficiencies of ion drives are in the 50% range at present. To reach a fraction of light speed for the interstellar mission is orders of difficulty harder. Greason suggests something like a magnetic field particle accelerator that operates the length of the ship’s spine. Existing particle accelerators have low efficiencies, so this may present another very significant engineering challenge. If the exhaust velocity cannot be matched to the speed of the ship through the medium, the performance looks much more like a rocket, with velocity increases that depend on the natural logarithm of the mass ratio, rather than the square root. For the interstellar mission, increasing the velocity from 4% to 20% light speed would require a mass ratio of not just 25, but rather closer to 150.

So basically "I dunno lol."

>>11636762
how big would a solar sail have to be for travel times that are comparable to those of chemical rockets (within solar system)

>>11636323

>>11636775
10s of kms at least, batteries of lasers focusing on one would work better
You might only need a decent sized pusher plate if this research bears any fruit
https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2018_Phase_I_Phase_II/PROCSIMA/

>>11636798
Ion thruster accel though. You'll eventually be the fastest skeleton in the universe.

>>11636823
>You'll eventually be the fastest skeleton in the universe.
Spooky skeletons traveling the universe time dilated so hard they won't ever decompose is a fantastic space ghost story.

>>11636798
>>11636823
calm your shit down i want to go back and forth from mars/moon first

>>11636838
>Not wanting to build on Goddard and Von Braun's legacy of reaching for the stars
>>>/NASA/

>>11636851
just because YOU think that Mars/Moon is a boring destination to reach for doesn't mean that it's still not trying to do something thought impossible

>>11636838
Find a different propulsion system then.

>>11636833
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASM6dozyyhU

>>11636858
I never said that, but these are ways we more easily access all of them
Reaching out ambitiously can provide great benefit for simpler efforts as well
Caution led to the stagnation we see today

>>11636878
reaching for the moon/mars IS ambitious right now
there are plans to reach beyond being started even now, too

>>11636878
Reach out to all possible destinations. There are pleasures and pains to be had on Mars, but also on the moon and even in low-earth orbit. Glorious, it shall be.

>>11636762
Whoever wrote that is dumb, magnetic accelerator sails don't really have an exhaust velocity, they just accelerate whatever material is around them no matter how fast it's already moving. The only thing that changes is the amount of change in velocity each bit of reaction mass provides, because if it's already moving fast it will spend less time being accelerated. Basically there's no limit to how long you can accelerate, but at higher velocities your acceleration asymptotically approaches zero. You'd need to be moving at a significant fraction of the speed of light before the drop in acceleration became something significant, though.

>>11636880
>there are plans to reach beyond being started even now, too

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

>>11636910
allow me to elucidate the meaning of my statement:
There are plans to reach beyond [the moon and mars] [that are] being started even now
it's perfectly acceptable grammer, although your failure to grasp my meaning reflects poorly on me

For me, it's tSpace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj_Y6PY3034

>>11636982
>aircraft launch
stoped watching, unnecesary complexity that is confirmed by all math to be a loss of money, nothing good can be confirmed of it. cnacel it forbid its mentioning, everyone working ont hta is working on something false.

even if its reusable its a worthless piece of shitand everyone working on it should be shot

>>11637006
Good thing smarter people than you did the math.
Even if I think its too soon and would require working scramjet and faster launch platform, anyone who glorify SpaceX work-in-progress should recognize the potential in this.

>>11636667
>ur coping
>now listen to my cope story

>>11637060
>spruce goose 2.0

>>11636562
And if someone is brilliant by some other metric what would that be

>>11637060
First stage booster based off of a SABRE engine and flying to the stratosphere at hypersonic speeds.

Yes, or yes?

>>11637060
>scramjets
never going to happen
ramjets might work, I think you can get a ramjet started subsonic, but that's only if you're dead set on having two air-breathing stages
a properly built subcooled propane and liquid oxygen rocket should have enough dv to single stage to LEO from a properly delivered Stratolaunch

>>11636982
>2006
lmao
Went nowhere, will go nowhere

>>11637073
I mean, scramjets have already flown, and ramjets were flown way back in the 60's. The SR-71 had ramjets integrated into its turbine jet engine nacelles.

They will never be used for achieving orbit around Earth of course, the delta V requirements are too big to allow a single stage vehicle even if you are very optimistic about how much delta V your air breathing stage will give you. A fuel-oxidizer carrying turboramjet powered vehicle with a rocket based OMS would be ideal for doing orbital launch from Titan, though.

>>11637060
>anyone who glorify SpaceX work-in-progress should recognize the potential in this.
no, the math is solid for spacex and not solid for that.

you commit the error (common for worthless npcs who never worked in anything that matters in their lives) to think that no one would force calculations for their interest. They are a business, they just want their moeny and part of that is making a nice render that fools mostly stupid idiots like you.

seriously nigga, keep scrubbing toilets its your thing

>>11637080
>scramjets have already flown
scramjet? more like scamjet, lol
you can't start a scramjet from a subsonic air-launch vehicle, and rocket propulsion alone is sufficient for this application
a high-supersonic turboramjet airlaunch would make making your next stage a pumped liquid rocket even more of a no-brainer

>>11637060
>Pictured, a carrier plane with no rocket because nobody can come up with a business plan for it

>>11637060
>carrier plane
everyone point and laugh

>>11637071
Hell yes?

>>11637073
They are testing many right now, and I can easily imagine a rocket bodywing switching to air-breathing midway to achieve both.

>>11637081
>I'm right because I say so
Thank you for making clear we shouldn't bother with you

when's the S.A.R.G.E. guy coming back, I miss him

>>11637114
Read here a few /sfg/ threads ago they the sabre team had some kind of breaktrough with the precooler.
Wonder how much of it was true.

>>11637091
I'm not arguing that scramjets would be useful for space launch, I'm saying the technology exists and is real. It will be used for hypersonic cruise missiles and then we'll all be caught up in a new arms race, but it won't ever make sense for space launch from Earth.

>>11637114
burden on proof is on you, its not my job to educate you, want to be relevant at something? start by having the bare minimum of coherence they would request from a first year student of the shittiest college possible.

>>11637060
>thinking airlaunch has any future
fuck you for making me cringe like this, its very unpleasant

>>11637136
>kind of breaktrough with the precooler.
its true, but the news is old. Sabre comes from a long line of cancelled programs, so imagine something like the sls only instead of taking 10 years its taking something like 30, and after all this time instead of building a full scale prototype they can proudly say that they solved one part of the engine.

biggest nothingburguer ever with extra less fries

>>11637136
>>11637149
https://newatlas.com/sabre-hypersonic-engine-precooler-test/59204/
It's becoming reality.

>>11637173
Sabre is not a scramjet, it's a ramjet that uses bypass air and a rocket that liquefies incoming air and pumps it into a combustion chamber, combined into one system.
A scramjet uses hyper-sonic shockwaves to compress a fuel-air mixture so hard that it combusts to produce thrust.

Regardless, the economics of an idealized Skylon don't work, and the economics of any two stage system using an air breathing first stage are fundamentally worse than the economics of a two stage conventional rocket vehicle.

>>11637204
Sabre can barely get the engine's weight to orbit, nevertheless payload and land itself.
It's good engineering, but it's a dead end.

>>11637231
If it's a dead end, I don't count it as good engineering.

ITER is another example, even if that fusion reactor technology worked flawlessly, it's so huge and complex that it could never be mass produced anyway.

>>11637204
>it's a ramjet
it's a turbojet that precools incoming air to permit efficient combustion at higher speeds, not a ramjet

>>11637093
And it puts a hard cap on the size of the rocket lol fucking retarded billionaire scammed

>>11637253
Would still be big for the airline Industry.

>>11637249
Well, what I meant by good engineering, is that it's good to explore dead ends as well.

>>11637261
it only works when using cryogenic fuels

>>11637173
>30 years after
>A PART of A PART of A PART is becoming a reality
>if all goes according to plan and works perfectly we will have (in 10 years) 15 tons to orbit per flight at a price thats ten time more expensive that what starship is projected to cost, and for some magic reason it will come with a physics defying alloy that does not require any mantainance between flight. It will also be able to take off from any runway, any runway thats long enough for strategic bombers and happens to be right next to a specialized space mantainance crew, basically from KSC

oh yeah, very accomplishment much excite

>>11637265
if it all goes perfectly then we'll have mach 5 jet fighters running on liquid methane

>>11637263
Saying it only works if we can safely have people sitting in a fucking bomb.

>>11637249
if its stupid but it works it aint stupid
if its smart but it doesnt it aint smart

>>11637261
>no business case for the concorde which costed slightly more and increased travel time greatly
>thinks an engine thats only good for ultra high speed specialized rocket planes would somehow transform the industry

anon i...

>>11637272
NASA has a low-boom supersonic test vehicle in the works

>>11637270
so the best case scenario is tons of money lost and no improvements for civilians.

also in an age of nukes and economic-cybernetic-propaganda warfare, having 5 gorillion planes vs 4 gorillion doesnt really make a difference.

so best case scenario is quite shitty, and thats if everything goes perfect

>>11637270
>He doesn't know about Auraura.
Yeah, mach 5 tight turns are OK, AM I RIGHT.

>all these guys shitting on sabre
We get it already it's nice on paper but in reality it's something that probably will never work with current or near future tech.
But still, it's nice to dream right.
The SSTO dream will never go away, even with starship dabbing all over LEO.

>>11637283
boom and zoom bruh