/sci/ - Science & Math

Sadness: painful feeling
Depression: no feeling from lack of hormones

Generally a lack of one or more of the following neurotransmitters/downregulated receptors: serotonin (why SSRIs are supplied frontline) for general well being, noradrenaline for getting really into what you're doing and dopamine which would inhibit your motivation to do anything

Sadness is a period of being sad, a disorder is when it becomes abnormally long/imposing (outside of grief)

Depression itself is an actual condition
Problem is that people think it's some kind of boo boo my life sucks I deserve pity kind of thing
The hard part is separating the actual condition which is PURELY CLINICAL from the edgy larpers that want to stand out

>>11627463
I have PTSD and am beyond fucking annoyed at people who think being sad or scared once means they have it when they're perfectly happy to tell random strangers who didn't ask

>>11627453
>depression
>>>/x/

i think i have something that might be depression or a habitual personality thing. it's a difficulty overcoming some numbness block that prevents me from crying. is there an exercise i can do to stimulate it other than being bullied on the internet

>>11627454
>>11627462
>>11627463
What causes it and what is the evolutionary purpose of being able to suffer from this? I mean, you would die in a heartbeat in the wilds if you didn't have motivation to do shit.

>>11627505
>evolutionary purpose
it's all random unfortunate mutations, do you think people born blind have any evolutionary purpose

>>11627453
>What is it, precisely?
Lack of sex

>>11627505
Stress is fight or flight. Our bodies arent used to modern life

>>11627535
this post made me want to pick up extreme sports and get high on adrenaline to cure my sadness

>>11627453
Stress causes it. It is a lack of reward, and too much punishment remain motivated.

That's why jungle people are the happiest on earth.

>>11627453
I’m not sure, but I completely lost it simply by listening to optimistic music and adopting optimistic viewpoints, and purposefully ceasing to think about bad things. “Man up” is actually the answer, not drug bullshit.

>>11627541
>mother died during childhood because of preventable disease
>father died of infection from wounds during hunting
>neighbouring tribes are preparing to wipe out your entire family
>diarrhea, coldness and other illnesses are part of daily lives but you have to keep hunting otherwise everyone would die of starvation
>constant pressure and stress of finding water, source of food, warding off predators

>>11627552
Humans don’t have predators. Ones that compete with us get wiped out and made into carpets

>>11627552
Amazing isn't it? Just goes to show how shit modern life is. The only reason we do it at all is because societies that don't get conquered.

>>11627539
Its literally the cure though. No matter how sad I am, speeding through traffic always cheers me up.
You notice the kind of people that gets consistently depressed are the ones who aren't comfortable with high adrenaline activities

>>11627556
>Amazing isn't it? Just goes to show how shit modern life is

Modern life is awesome and the best that has ever existed. The problem is the people. It’s so easy that it allows shitty, disgusting people to persist, which is why there’s so many atheists, childless people, depressed people, and antinatalists.

>>11627557
>>11627539
You could just take a cold shower.

>>11627566
That would kill me, I'm always with a light cough or runny nose

>>11627568
It can actually help that too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6jqaALpEFM

>>11627544
cope, basically?

>>11627453
Depression is finally realizing you won't move on with your life, therefore you are doomed.

Taking medication endeepens the depression, if your life remains meaningless on that piece of serotonin medication rents from your brain.

>>11627505
Our minds are adapted for small, highly social hunter gatherer communities. Our mind have simple not adapted to the Industrial Revolution and its consequences, so we experience depression.

>>11629988
Based and tedpilled

>>11627453
it is evolutionary advantageous for failed organisms to become self destructive and remove themselves from the gene pool. This is observed across all living creatures, from the cells in your very body (Apoptosis) to complex life—the principle is the same.

>>11629988
This, but unironically

>>11630177
>he thinks evolution works by selecting at a species level instead of an individual level
You got bamboozled by dumb memes anon

>>11627453
You can thank neanderthals for the depression.

>>11627505
>What causes it and what is the evolutionary purpose of being able to suffer from this.
Chronic stress. Humans have always experienced stress. But past humans had no choice but to be active, as they had to track down and kill their food to survive. That got rid of the stress.

Nowadays, you can survive just fine vegging out in an office chair all day, but then you experience chronic stress because you are too sedentary. Chronic stress quickly turns into depression.

Moreover, depression can be a good adaptation. It can cause people to act socially conservative, or risk-averse. This decreases the chance of fights and dangerous encounters.

tl;dr: depression happens when you have too much stress and can't get rid of it, which is harder to do in the post-industrial world. Also, it causes people to be risk-averse and therefore survive longer

>>11627453
It's either your brain malfunctioning, or it's giving you an indication that you have low status in society/aren't doing jack shit for society.

>>11629988
>>11630116
>>11630190
our minds were never adapted for anything retards. evolution is not intelligent and is based around throwing shit at the ceiling and seeing what sticks. humans are just as capable of living in modern society as they were as cavemen. in fact, living in modern society is actually a LOT easier than the cavemen had it. we've never had such cushy lives before.

only narcissists get depressed

>>11630264
Brainlet post

>>11630321
depression has existed since before the industrial revolution and organized, non huntergatherer society has also existed for millenia, turbo brainlet. use your brain for a second. not everything your poltard terrorist idol says is correct just because he appealled to your irrational hatred of the left.

>>11630291
so u?

help

>>11627453
depression isn't like impossible to beat or really heavy or something like that
it's just another thing you can work on and improve, you don't have to be depressed about being depressed if that makes sense

>>11629476
but life is inherently meaningless, anon.

>>11630209
>depression is caused by stress
>implying that’s it
show your work, please

>>11630264
Not the point, retard. Homo sapiens have lived as hunter-gatherers for 200.000 years. We have been living in a sedentary lifestyle for less than 4000 years, and the industrial revolution happened less than 200 years ago. Do you really think our minds had time to adapt?

>>11627505
what is the evolutionary purpose of suicide?

>>11627544
>dude just think happy thoughts lmao, works for me

>>11627564
you forgot to mention yourself

>>11631894
no, it isn't. maybe yours, but not those of the normies.

>>11630177
how is this an advantage for the person who commits suicide?

>>11627552
In jungle you die if you can't find food in 10 days. Once you found food, it is pointless to worry about next month as it doesn't relate to what you do at this moment, so why worrying? The stress last 10 days at most.
Today it cost you 20 years to find out whether you can get a degree, and another 30 years for housing.

>>11630264
>evolution is not intelligent and is based around throwing shit at the ceiling and seeing what sticks.
Yes, which led to our brains adapting.
>humans are just as capable of living in modern society as they were as cavemen. in fact, living in modern society is actually a LOT easier than the cavemen had it.
In terms of physical survival, yes, but that is because it is easier to satisfy physical needs -- we survive in spite of our maladapted minds.
>>11630330
I'm >>11629988 and I am a communist.

>>11631982
because the people around them who carry the same genes succeed more without having to care for a useless person

>>11627552
>still happier and more fulfilled than average city dweller

>>11627453

>>11631979
show me how a human life has any form of impact on the evolution of the universe. Nevermind, because after the universe is nothing more but some black holes and isolated photons, even that wouldn’t matter.

>>11632126
having a degree or not is definitely less threatening that fighting a boar for food and probably die from infection if you get wounded.
>but anon, it is so hard to live under stress for 20+years
well, you’re digging your own grave there, buddy. It is no requirement of life to have a specific degree or own a house.

>Can you cure it without taking meds forever and feeling like a zombie?

There are some interesting results with psychedelic microdosing, so maybe.

>>11632213
how is life harder now? The only thing that changed is that pussies like you keep surviving.

>>11633128
oh fuck off with that meme. There is no evidence whatsoever that getting high cures depression. And no, personal anecdotes don’t count.

What about social anxiety? And I mean, "true" social anxiety not that meme tumblr, "I have been socially awkward like twice in my life, therefore I have social anxiety."

>>11627453
Depression is a halt. Unless you can pair up your neurons to a dance partner it is going no where.

>>11633190
what about it?

>>11627505
>die in a heartbeat in the wilds
Which is what some people did, actually. I almost died in civilization of depression by suicide, myself. Fortunately I survived and started getting professional help. In the past and in the wild? I would have been toast either way.

>>11631951
He is a retard that thinks we are a complete blank slate at birth without predisposition to do some things better than others.

>>11627466
ptsd isn't real you're just a weak willed faggot who wants to be self righteous and claim you have an ailment for pity points

>>11633127
We actually get off on those difficulties like hunting boars you retard, the adrenaline makes us feel fullfiled. The difficulties of modern life is something strange for us, even if we manage to overcome them it still feels weird, not something we evolved for.

>>11627453
There is more than one type of "depression". Some people here do not seem to know that, so I said it. I hope that helps.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007

Mental illness is so trendy nowadays because it absolves the user of all responsibility, and generates unearned sympathy and interest towards the user. It allows the user to avoid any introspection and lets them ignore any shortcomings they have. It allows the user to delude themselves and those around them into truly believing they have an affliction holding them back to make their achievements seem even more impressive to themselves and those around them, which feeds their ego. This strategy is so effective since something so abstract and intangible is hard to concretely prove or disprove. This method is so effective to normans due to their inability to critically think. So gashes utilize this strategy in spades as there's virtually no drawback when society treats mental illness as a real issue.

Depression is a self defense mechanism your body utilizes when you're in danger or missing something essential. It numbs you so you don't act out on your emotions and do something rash that could jeopardize your survival. Depression is just an extension of narcissism now.

>>11633869
>Depression is just an extension of narcissism now.
You are not helping. Like I said, there is more than one type of depression. Get clue. Or not.

>>11633133
It is objectively easier for a caged animal to survive, and yet they do not enjoy it.

>>11627466
Sorry for whatever happened to you. Yeah these "self care" and "self love" types posting about their "illnesses" are why I hate modernism

>>11633149
There has been some good results thus far.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-brain-food/201912/treating-depression-magic-mushrooms

>>11627505
I mean in the past it existed and it was rare but we are clearly living in artificial environments with long term stressors put on us. Living in smog, eating garbage, meaningless papers due, no time for any meaningful social interactions. In the past everything you did had clear meaning and starts and stops i.e. run from predators, hunt, farm, worship with the tribe of whatever. It was difficult but how are brain evolved to cope. Now our brains don't know what to do with this patternless luxury we experience and lack of nutrients

>>11627505
We're very far from our natural environment; which is also the reason we're depressed.

Your body regulates stress response through the endocannabinoid system. That's why pot is so famous for making people feel relaxed- it relieves stress via inhibiting/lowering cortisol and releasing/increasing endorphins.

When you are stressed, your anadamide levels drop, and your 2AG levels increase. When you are chronically stressed, your physiological and cognitive processes become retarded (slower) due to excess/uninhibited cortisol and inflammation.

This "retarded" state is what we call depression. When you exercise, you temporarily increase anadamide and endorphins, which relieve stress, pain, and inflammation. When you smoke a joint, THC binds to the same receptor sites as anadamide, and you get a similar, but more concentrated effect. THC also can indirectly decrease GABA, which can cause some people to temporarily experience psychotic symptoms.

When you exercise daily, you increase your production of anandamide and endorphins, and are more adequately able to tolerate stress- and alleviate the retardation caused by it's excess.

What I'm describing is distinct from sadness, although sadness can be a precursor to depression, as people can often become sad after experiencing something stressful.

>>11627552
>dying is absolutely a natural part of your life just as someone from civilisation doesn't worry about rotting and withering away from 60-80 you don't worry about dying of sickness at 40 because it's your course of life and has always been
>work consists of hunting, gathering, making tools, maintaining your hut and the fire, 4-5 hours a day is absolutely enough
>your natural diet is healthy. noone is fat, your teeth and jaw grow strong naturally, little to no tooth decay,
>wake up when the sun shines and go to bed when it gets dark
>have sex everyday, some women experience no menstruation since they're always pregnant
>suicide is unheard of

>>11634441
how would you know? And you can’t equate a lack of threats for you life to a cage.
>muh nooo i can get water from the tap with no difficulties whatsoever, I can’t escape from this miserable life.

>>11634448
this link lacks any form of scrutiny. It’s just copy pasting some of the wiki on psilocybin and guessing how it might potentially affect depressed people. And obviously they have no studies whatsoever.

>>11634462
>lack of nutrients
>compared to pre-agricultural times
lul

>>11627453
A rational response to a shitty enivioment 99,9% of cases.
>>11627454
>>11627462
>>11627463
Fooled by psychology. There is no real test for /predisposed/ chemical imbalances. If that was real, then ssris and other such pills would work continuously, but the fact is they all stop working as your brain readjusts to the environment and the pills.
Number one cure for depression is vicious exercise, the number two cure is getting away from your toxic parents/job/school.
Pills are poison and can permanently change the number of neuroreceptoers your brain has or the amount of neurotransmitters you produce depending on the pill mechanism and honestly should be outlawed

>>11629988
bullshit

>>11636177
>Fooled by psychology. There is no real test for /predisposed/ chemical imbalances. If that was real
It is real you damn retard, it is not about psychology alone, psychiatric medicine doctors exist. They often work and they do not stop working, not everyone has a bad environment, in fact it is the factor of not having a bad environment the one thing that makes you wonder if you have depression.
After talking with a doctor and you realize there is nothing really wrong with your life but you feel the symptoms, it is pretty obvious you have it.
Plus it's not some magical BS mechanism, psychiatrist know there is a real connection between chemicals and emotions.
Holy shit what a broscience induced faggot.

>>11636177
>Number one cure for depression is vicious exercise
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27253219
>The effects of exercise when compared to psychological treatments or antidepressant medication were small and not significant (g=-0.22 and g=-0.08, respectively).
Yeah, nice broscience you got there.
>number two cure is getting away from your toxic parents/job/school.
Not everyone has a shit life. That's called regular sadness and stress.
Real depression hits even when you are supposed to feel happy.
>>11627463
This, just read how little exercise does help, in fact medication is the most helpful treatment.

Imagine something incredibly emotional to you, happy or sad. Graduating school, flunking school, becoming a parent, losing a parent, being loved, being hated, hating yourself. At least in your head you consider the emotions attached to those events. But then it actually happens and you're just kind of numb, like emotional novocaine. "This should absolutely crush me but I couldn't cry if I wanted to. God I wish I could cry."

>>11634486
>believes in nature
I thought this was a science board.

>>11636470
Just your average Ted incel on display

>>11627453
Depression is non-nexistent. Not on the sense that people don't experience feelings commonly called depression, but the way it is treated as an illness and not as a normal consequence of the world we live in.
Every case of depression is a normal justified reaction to negative stimuli. See the original works on learned helplessness. If you mistreat an animal enough it becomes depressed, as it should. Same way you can condition an animal positively by rewarding behavior, it's not that far out there to imagine that random, uncontrolled pain and distress causes a negative conditioning.
Everyone in the world who has depression is having a normal bodily reaction to being treated like absolute trash. They are not mentally ill. They are in fact reacting exactly as one should to such treatment.

>>11632241
prove it.

>>11631971
I actually have an explanation for this. This is because suicide is an evolutionary advantage. Yes, you read that right. "But how can that be?" you ask, "When suicide is clearly the worst outcome in terms of survivability." Read on.

I want you to consider two separate groups of people, group A and group B. Both have similar numbers of members, and are for the purposes of this thought experiment, genetically identical. Except for one key difference: group B has a gene that acts as a hidden switch where if they become miserable enough, they will kill themselves. This means that when they become a burden on their society, either due to age or in situations where there are not enough resources to go around (famine), the hardest hit individuals kill themselves and alleviate the burden on the rest of the group.

In group A, that doesn't happen. Their elderly people stay alive and consume more resources that they contribute. And in times of low resources, when there isn't enough to go around, they fight each other. And when they fight each other, odds are high that both die, or one dies but the other is grievously injured and in turn becomes an even greater burden.

Now, imagine that a famine strikes both groups. It is possible that the collective survival rate of group A (who are suffering losses to due infighting and resources spread too thin) is lower than group B (whose individuals kill themselves when things become unsustainable, but don't fight each other as much). In this scenario, it wouldn't be surprising that group B thrives in the long run.

>>11636539
Why is suicide (separate from martyrdom like in bees and stuff) almost exclusively seen in humans and not other animals alike?
I think your idea is interesting but if I'm correct and it's a 99,9999% only human behavior, then higher cognition plays a part.
In my opinion suicide is not an evolved behavior, but it's an unintended consequence of developing your cognition too much while still having to deal with pain and whatnot like other animals. Whereas other mammals might become lethargic in the face of distress, isolation, torture or etc, humans not only become lethargic but their high cognition and understanding of themselves allows for a crucial idea: "if I kill myself this will stop". I think if other animals had developed their cognition enough to think this they would do the same.

If this was an evolved behavior I'd expect it to be present in more animals leading up to humans.

>>11636539
only one issue with your theory, famine isn't really a big issue in the west anymore yet young people still off themselves

>>11636551
Btw, just a small note. If you kill yourself after you had children, especially after you already raised them to be independent, it is not "anti-evolutionary", as you already propagated your genes.

>>11636551
I read once that dolphins suicide themselves to death by not breathing if treated like shit in captivity. Don’t know if that is true, tho.

>>11633300
What are the biological and evolutionary reasons for it existing?

>>11636400
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27253219
> RESULTS:
>Physical exercise had a moderate to large significant effect on depression compared to control conditions
> Exercise compared to no intervention yielded a large and significant effect size (g=-1.24), and exercise had a moderate and significant effect compared to usual care (g=-0.48).
Btfo by your own study link.
>>The effects of exercise when compared to psychological treatments or antidepressant medication were small and not significant (g=-0.22 and g=-0.08, respectively
Do you even know what what means? It means exercise worked better than a pill.
Anyways this is a worthless meta study, which they even admit in the body because most of the studies were too small and had procedural problems.
Most exercise studies in any field are pretty bad Because they only last 6 weeks or less and it takes a little longer than that for your body to really adjust and be able to do true vigiois exercise.
You have been conned.
I have looked into this hard. Psychiatric medicine is a complete con game. I know everyone around has been telling you it’s the best way and such break through have been made.
It’s not true.
Doctors hate the exercise prescription Because it undermines thier entire model of care.
Trust me on the exercise.
Then get to a CbT psychologist and work on changing your environment,
Skip the psychiatrist.
Having studying neuroscience brain chemistry too long I can tell you psych pills are bad treatments for 99.9% of cases.

>>11627505
>evolutionary purpose
lol. You have no idea how evolution works. There is no "purpose" in evolution.

>>11636891
what is the biological and evolutionary reason for cancer and ms?

>>11627526
>do you think people born blind have any evolutionary purpose
if i can´t see the predator, the predator can´t see me

>>11627453
Oi anons I was wondering what someone would major in if they solely wanted to research consciousness and mental health to understand what humans really are as much as possible. Psychology seems to be a meme so the options are really just Neuroscience, Cognitive science, and Genetics.

>>11636400

read >>11635235

Exercise is more effective than anti-depressants.

Who is more likely to kill themselves, a sedentary loser or an Olympic athlete?

If you think this needs to be "tested" in a lab, you're retarded. Literally just just fucking look around you.

What are all the happy people doing that the depressed people aren't?

Real fucking mystery, better test it in our lab!

>>11635284
lol you're wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_k5HuDTk3Q

i won't take SSRIs, because my depression is not intrinsic. i would not be depressed under normal circumstances, and i'd rather die than endure a living death.

>>11637948
to be fair theres probably a lot of places that dont suck as much ass to live in as the amazon rainforest

>>11627472
This

>>11627453
Depression isn't sadness, it's the inability to feel any emotion at all

>>11637902
>Literally just just fucking look around you.
Not science or math
>>11637619
I stopped taking meds actually

>>11637813
the only intelligent post on this board

>>11627453
read DSM/ICD/ any psychopathology textbook

>>11637813
redpilled

>>11639505
*inability to feel happy

>>11637835
evolutionary psych, neuro, neurobiology, general biology maybe, but that’s kinda boring, pharma stuff, medicine

>>11637835
and desu, psych is only a meme because neo-hippies overtook it. It’s a lot more important now to be in a minority group or female than to actually do quality work.

Should I take SSRI /sci/?

>>11640301
if you need them, yes. They make therapy more effective and help you build helpful habits like exercise and socializing. Otherwise it’s better to not fuck with neurotransmitters. Either way, talk with a psychiatrist before taking any medication affecting your mental state.