/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11593608
Reminder, when you use logic, reason, and actual real science (real physics - not math which if you rely too much on makes you gullible and limits your understanding), then you realize rockets only work (definition of work: to propel themselves forward) inside an atmosphere.

They don't and can't work in a real vacuum (space).

So will a rocket which "works in space" (propels the craft forward) ever be invented? No. No such technology can ever exist. Any claims of such tech existing is a fraud and a lie. You want to believe in a fraud and a lie?

>inb4 you parrot "newtons 3rd law!" like an NPC without any thought involved
That law isn't in dispute here. Quoting it to "prove" rockets "work in space" shows you don't grasp the fundamental problem here. The 3rd law is 100% correct. When asteroids floating in the vacuum of space crashes into each other, the 3rd law applies. Likewise, the law applies to objects interacting on the ground on Earth, underwater, and in the sky. The 3rd law is real, but it doesn't "do" anything for a rocket engine fired in a perfect vacuum.

You see, the atmosphere gets thinner at higher elevation until it disappears completely (out in space). That's the issue is here! And you can't get around that issue. Parroting "newtons's 3rd law!" or throwing math equations around, doesn't magically make the issue go away. That's just you avoiding to deal with reality. Man up and stop avoiding reality :)

If you're currently under the "rockets work in space! xd!" spell they cast on you through the entertainment industry and educational system (the indoctrination system), and you want to break free from that spell and shatter the illusion - then see these two educational videos (they play inside your browser):

First vid: https://files.catbox.moe/dl9ldw.webm
Second (also important): https://files.catbox.moe/so2rrt.mp4

Once you know that stuff - then you know beyond any doubt rocket technology will never be viable outside of Earth.

>>11593618
i'm a brainlet and this is too difficult for me to understand

i got totally lost 1 minute into the first vid

>>11593626
See this picture, fren. It might help you.

>>11593618
Ok fine

/afg/ Atmosphere Flight General

Pic related, thermal tiles that will no longer be needed on the AtmosX continental ship

>>11593618
Based and redpilled. Space flights BTFO'd!

>>11593658
Which launch was that?

>>11593618
>>11593626
>>11593634
is this some elaborate copypasta/joke or is this the same dude posting the same exact 3 posts in every single general pretending that he is someone else

>>11593687
a bad one

>recap
>Starlink launched successfully
>Private beta in 3 months for northern US
>Public in 6 months

>>11593618
Reminder,

>>11593758
we've never landed on the moon

>>11593696
It's the same flat earther

>>11593825
Nice strawman attempt, but the science has nothing to do with flat earth garbage. Also if you watched the videos the dude ackknowledges planets are spheres.

>>11593825
I don't think this is a flattie. I think he's a moon hoaxer who ran out of points that have been refuted a thousand times, and resorted to attacking the very basics of space flight out of desperation.

>>11593608
What is the most impressive high precision spacecraft you have seen? I heard that voyager is really accurate with its path in relation to the distance to earth but I couldnt find any numbers

According to that deleted briefing video with a SpaceX guy their (internal?) launch cost is around 30 million.

Isn't that... a bit too high? Roskosmos sells launches for around 50 and they're not even reusable.

>>11594218
Some asteroid study/gathering craft? Hayabusa 2?

>>11593687
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2018/07/01/japan-rocket-blast-off-crash-vpx.cnn

>>11594257
high compared to what

Raptor in the wild

>>11594257
>>11594602
SOYUZ-2 = 6097-7123 $/kg
FALCON 9 = 1315-1924 $/kg

high my fucking ass
falcon 9 has way more payload capability and is also cheaper
butthurt russians

>>11594257
payload to LEO:
falcon 9 expendable: 22800 kg
falcon 9 reusable: 15600 kg
soyuz-2.1b: 8200 kg

hahahahahhahahahhahahah

>>11594257
Roskosmos doesn’t make any money
And nasa pays Spacex like 100 million a launch

>https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1253145412329971719
How the fuck does numale like him get to be in private starlink beta test? ITS NOT FAIR

>>11594699
>And nasa pays Spacex like 100 million a launch
Source?

>>11594813
I guess it pays to lick the man's asshole on twitter every day for years

>>11594813
he spams elon on twitter constantly

>>11594819
nasa? It’s well known that government launches incur extra costs, 100-150m

SN4 is going to the pad

>>11594822
now he can do it from space

I hope Elon mirror shines future starlink sats and fits them with flashbangs for over landmasses.

Fuck astrphotography faggots.

>>11594901
based

>>11594901
starlink killing astrophotography is unerringly based. Now they have to actually try to be creative photographers instead.

>>11594869
Here we fucking go

>>11594869
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSoXxyRIY1g

moving

>>11594928
>>11594869

>>11593842
Blah blah, if you push on a rock in a vacuum it goes one way you go the other way, a rock is a mass, a gas particle is a mass, a rocket works by accelerating tiny masses up to high speed basically like a highly efficient rock thrower, gas mass goes one way rocket goes the other way, blah blah.

Also to address the misconception that rocket exhaust eventually slows down; It doesn't, but even if it did (say, by slamming into the ambient gasses while burning in an atmosphere) it wouldn't affect the rocket's performance beyond limiting the maximum exhaust velocity at the nozzle exit, which is the last point at which momentum can be exchanged between the exhaust and the rocket. What do you know, all rockets are less efficient at sea level than they are in vacuum for this reason.

>>11594218
Juno, easily. They cancelled two deep space maneuvers that were scheduled in the flight plan because they didn't need to make any course corrections, and that was for a probe not just going all the way to Jupiter, it had to effectively thread a needle by passing just barely above Jupiter's atmosphere from a polar approach angle in order to avoid the radiation belts that would have fried it.

>>11594935
Not sure how large the SN4 is, but I can guess its ~100M/330 ft

>>11594263
Asteroids are pretty easy actually. Yo don't even need to factor in their gravity for the most part, you're just pointing and shooting for a location in space where you'll perform a braking burn in order to remain close to the object.

>>11594869
>>11594935
Looks so eerie. As if it was from some paranormal show.

>>11594944
Just ignore them. They're being willfully ignorant. No amount of carefully explaining physics would convince them.

>>11594257
Electron only costs $6 million and it isn't reusable yet. The comparison is off because you aren't taking into account the fact that Soyuz is a baby rocket.

>>11594657
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST MOVE YOUR ENGINE AROUND WITH A FORKLIFT WHAT ABOUT THE G FORCES YOU NEED A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR TRANSPORTERINO NOOOOO

>>11594819
They're paying for the capsule, too. Hence increased cost; capsules ain't free.

>>11594966
>haha forklift go zoom

>>11594953
Not even close. The full Starship Super Heavy stack with nose cone and legs is going to be 120 meters tall. SN4 is about 30 meters/100 feet tall. The final rocket is going to be a monster, literally the biggest and most powerful rocket ever built.

>>11594962
>No amount of carefully explaining physics would convince them.
I know that, I'm more pointing out the facts in order to inform other anons who may want to know in exactly what way that retard is incorrect.

>>11594953
SN4 Tank Section = 30m (90')

Starship = 50m (164')

Super Heavy = 70m (230')

Starship Super Heavy = 120m (394')

Launch Platform = 30m (90')

Launch Tower = 170m (558')

>>11594977
>>11594982
Good to know

>>11594979

>>11594869
Thumbnail looks like a sniper scope

>>11594991
ULA in position

S T A C C

>>11594991

>>11594996
pls

>>11594995
Sat 12pm/noon testing

>>11595032
too long I want to watch it now now now

>>11595032
whats this info from? If it's the road closures they never stick to those

>>11595040
https://twitter.com/bluemoondance74/status/1253299993420738562

>>11595045
oh, well this would be for a first hop or static fire right? It would be absurd to get FAA clearance for a pressure test

>>11595058
Uncertain, but it does give clearance for +400 meter altitude hop test, if they so desire.

>>11595058
maybe if it goes well they will do the hop test.

Wtf bros they’re gonna do a hop already?

>>11595127
ye

>>11595127
It's gotta pass the pressure test then they have to attach the engines, then a static fire, then a hop

>>11594991
ELON WATCH OU-!!!!!!!!!

>>11595127
Hopefully but more than likely they'll have to do the cryo test rigmarole then a static fire which will be nevertheless based.

>>11595152
Based on what?

>>11595160
Based on being based.

>SLS could face "significant delay"

SLS fags on suicide watch

>>11595176
Is anyone even remotely surprised? Guessing they're breaking out another $10bn too?

>>11595140
Seems a bit much for one day. Then again they did take the engines out of the tent.

>>11595176
Imagine the cope if Starship managed to get into orbit before SLS.

When Nasa lands the first woman on the Moon there'll be Tesla's parked around the site to film it at this rate.

>>11595213
heh

>>11595182
itll be a few days for sure

>>11595200
SLS is getting canceled if that happens. Starship at full flight cadence destroys it on $/kg and kg/yr launch metrics.

Love the seething Boomers in the comments every time SpaceX lifts something and people walk underneath.

>Would have been fired for that when I worked at Whitney and Chibbs!

No wonder nothing got done for 50 years. Nothing but fat bastards making powerpoints about how to wear a steel toe capped boot.

>>11595232

>>11595176
Oh my god. Delayed? How can this happen? I'm so surprised.

>>11595228
Just wait until some argue that SLS is superior because it can send stuff directly to the moon yet Starship has to refuel in LEO. Or that SLS's max C3 value is greater than Starship's. Or that SLS is "more American" than Starship. Or something just as asinine.

>>11595256
>Just wait until some argue that SLS is superior because it can send stuff directly to the moon yet Starship has to refuel in LEO.
Seen exactly this post on /sfg/ a couple times.
>it can't be compared! you can't just factor in more launches!
Which would be true if they had the same $/launch and launch cadence, but you have to sacrifice 2 million orphans to the dragon at Boing headquarters to launch one SLS and the whole process takes at least a year.

>>11595272
>Seen exactly this post on /sfg/ a couple times.
I meant outside of this Mongolian gardening forum. Like a senator.

>>11594348
no, you don't use stoichiometric ratios for your propellants so you'll have a slight surplus of Oxygen

>>11595176
Affect, not effect. Silly Berger.

>>11595213
>Tesla
Cybertrucks, with trailer hitch testicles.

What's the name of that satellite tracker that uses Google Earth some guy made? I've seen it posted a few times.

inb4 it explodes like they always do.

>>11595213
Tesla should put a dog on the moon before nasa returns so that man's best friend will precede women for eternity

>>11593658
:3

>>11595307
The technical term is Truck Nuts.

>>11595200
In the end though it will be a perfect example of the American ideal, a private enterprise will again surpass the g*vernment in yet another field.
>>11595378
Extremely based.

>>11595176
Conveniently the contract is such that the longer it takes the more money they get.

>>11595256
>only the mighty all-american american-made 100% american rocket beef SLS can do XY because of Z!
That's already the case though.

>>11594908

>>11594563
Holy fuck that fan going wait what? Mein sides

>>11595390

anybody have the Atlas V gijinka image?

found her

>>11595508
>falcon heavy
>no ass

still missing the full images of Saturn V, H-IIB, Long March, Soyuz, and Ariane 5
have these been released?
>>11595517
blame Japan

>>11595524

>>11595555
thank you, anon

>>11595555
nice repeating numbers

>>11595524
Best design is Soyuz, worst design is Falcon Heavy, side boosters just being strapped there looks like shit, they should integrated in the skirt look

>>11595524
When are we going to get Electron goth loli?

>>11595571
when's Starship

Anime is degenerate

Turns out the dude who made the Rocket gijinka made some 4koma as well. Dumping.

>>11595620

>>11595626

>>11595630

>>11595632

>>11595635

>>11595638

Whoever typeset those should be strapped to a SRB and launched into Boing HQ.

>SLS delays
NSF is reporting that SLS is moving at an accelerating pace?
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/04/sls-accelerating-eus-development-timeline/

>>11595642
mixed up saturn v and atlus v in my files for some reason

>>11595649
>>11595644
It was the nip who made it himself. Gotta applaud him for trying at least.

>>11595651
The English typesetting too?

>>11595652
Yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcaYH1Rtjz0

what the fuck is going on

>>11595653
Ah ok. Will only beat him into submission with some old power cords then.

>>11595654
>This video shows the SpaceX Starlink satellites train that cross each other on april 22th 2020 short after release. This was a test of the laser communication system. The laserbeams aren´t visible to the human eye because their wavelengths aren´t in the visible light spectrum. Digital cameras can capture a wider range of wavenlength, so it´s possible to record the laser beams.

is it real or fake?

>>11595651
Last one.

>>11595663
breh
there aren't any starlink trails crossing each other at such an oblique angle yet
satellites do not show up as perfect white dots in the sky
it wouldn't matter if you could capture the wavelength with a camera because there's (almost) nothing between the satellites to scatter the light
they don't have the laser uplinks between satellites yet

>>11595663
The lasers are in space and there's nothing up there for them to refract off of along the way. So they shouldn't be seen. Also the way the dots move with the camera as it shakes looks off. Considering that the uploader pinned a comment about the satellites polluting the sky, I'm gonna call fake.

>>11595663
>visible lasers
>two train intersecting each other
>laser equipped early starlink sats

>>11595654
it's fake, you wouldn't be able to see the lasers from the ground

>>11595654
fake shit

>>11595654
stupid fakes like that really manage to piss me off, what sort of asshole goes out and willfully misinforms people of basic physics like that? fucking cuntbag

boing/ula/oneweb/astronomers are literally creating fake news now to get people to hate spacex

>>11595715
>what sort of asshole goes out and willfully misinforms people of basic physics like that?
Luddites. Leave them in the dirt while the rest of us explore the celestials.

>>11595715
>stupid fakes like that really manage to piss me off, what sort of asshole goes out and willfully misinforms people of basic physics like that?

Environmentalists and other haters of mankind.

>>11595754
Long March doesn't have a 3rd stage.

for those wondering how big it'll get later

>>11595782
man, the thermal tiles are going to look fucking swank
they ALREADY look so much better than the Shuttle tiles

>>11595782
Looks like some kind of compound, maybe insulation, is filled in the studs on the left

>>11595771
I encourage any active misanthrope to take their beliefs more seriously and suck start a pistol in the name of their movement.

>>11595786
>>11595792
yes, it's confirmed by elon to be insulation
not ablative

His gonna go for the hop this weekend isnt he.

>>11595782
Why is the new tile not along the hexagonal pattern

>>11595828
nobody fucking knows

>>11595815
I sure hope so. Hope he gives plenty of notice. I seem to remember Starhopper getting plenty of notice.

>>11595754

>>11595366
James darpian or whatnot

>>11595852
Such an idyllic background needed some touching up, here you go.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/04/sls-accelerating-eus-development-timeline/
>SLS reports that work on EUS (upgraded upper stage) has been accelerated
>Now focusing on cargo version, crew-rating has been deferred
>HLS lander awards "imminent"
If you can't figure you what this means in regards to which lander bids got selected, you're braindead.

>>11595873
it's the Blue Origin National Team and their three stage assemble-in-orbit craft delivered to the gateway, right

How do you calculate velocity of a craft orbiting a body at a certain altitude?

I want to believe
>>11595921
Newton's laws
note that it'll give you height from the center

>>11595927
>Scrap

Bet pikeys are salivating over that

>>11595933
It's not copper. Resale value of steel is fuck all.

>>11596052
yea, i think stainless steel though is worth some money

>>11596055
Not really.
That big chunk isn't worth the hassle of stealing due to size and weight. There's no demand for melting down old stainless steel in the first world, maybe in China.

muh osha

How would trade ports work in space? Would there even be central places where goods are exchanged in space, or would goods just be sent directly to their buyers?

>>11595669
>>11595651
>>11595649
>>11595642
>>11595638
>>11595635
>>11595632
>>11595630
>>11595626
>>11595620
>They are all giantesses

>>11596088
They would be sent ship to ship by Parcel drones or scanned for 3d printing and atomised at the source to mimic teleportation.

>>11595654
>>11595703
They also wouldn't be in close trains either, that's only before they've reached their final position. And you *certainly* won't see two trains at once, since they're each launched 2-4 weeks apart, when the previous one has had plenty of time to spread out.
And as far as I know, the lasers will only point forward and back in the same "ring", they won't be making all those cross paths.

>>11595669
Falcon 1 should have been a loli.
At least the guy got the Soyuz skirt very right, that bit was brilliant.

>>11596114
That's Falcon 9, not Falcon 1.

>>11595828
baby tile is sticking close to mama tile

>>11596055
pennies per pound, and it'd have to be chopped up first, it would be worth more if SpaceX chopped it up and made trinkets out of the steel. (with certificate of authenticity)

>>11596117
Falcon 9 didn't have "three failures".

>>11596125
Looks like the guy made the character a composite, then, according to her "character bio".
https://note.com/rys_star/n/n6d5b51d72674

>>11596114
>Falcon 1 should have been a loli

Pedophiles deserve to die.

>>11595228
So do F9 and FH, but that's not stopping anything

>”Our space and resources were dwindling, Musk. What were we supposed to do?”
“We look to the stars, as our ancestors did.”

>>11595228
You don't simply cancel a jobs program. Did they stop the F-35 because better planes existed?

>>11595715
>You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

>>11596133
You can change the world anon go out and start hunting them pedos right now.

>>11596186
In the US, you can find them extremely easily because they’re listed as sex offenders and their addresses are given, but sadly it’s illegal to kill them because society has degenerated socially and morally

>>11595782
>Misaligned tiles
Kindly fuck you Elon.

>>11595647
EUS is useless if the cores just keep getting delayed.

>>11595390
kek, the rocket even falls "face down" before exploding

>>11595781
The crane to move super heavy must be obnoxiously large. They won‘t lay it down, right?

>>11595176
>>11595873
>crew-rating has been deferred

>>11595176

>design a rocket program such that all 50 states supply the various parts that make up the whole
>global pandemic happens and majority of the country shuts the fuck down to prevent massive loss of life
>rocket program that's 50 states wide halts

A lobotomized monkey could figure out that it would happen.

>>11595524

>>11596287
It prevented nothing except a few thousand useless old people dying and ruined the economy.

>>11596295
>THAT'S A HUUUGE BITCH

>>11596314
Over two thousand people have been dying every single day from china virus for over a month, a small majority of them old people.

>>11596352
>2000/day
*in the USA alone

>>11596352
Wrong. People younger than 45 make up less than 5% of Coronavirus deaths and most people who died, both younger and older than 45, have underlying conditions. It’s a meme and should have been ignored.

>>11596365
>>11596314
>>11596352
>>11596356
brace for >500,000 deaths in the US

>>11596373
>Sick old people are more likely to have symptoms and be verified in the first place, and also more likely to die, going on to make up most deaths

Ooo big surprise. Being old is shameful and gross.

>>11595378
Thoroughly based

>>11596074
Pretty sure Elon bribes the inspectors, there's some pretty dodgy shit that goes on there lul

>>11596404
>>11596074
There is literally nothing wrong or sketchy within this image.

>>11596352
In my county of about 2M, half of the deaths were from a single old folks home.

>>11594977
I'm in the UK but I swear I'm going to do whatever it takes to see that first launch of the full stack as close as possible. I don't think the average person realises the historical magnitude associated with that event.

>>11596426
Your country of 2m is irrelevant, goodbye

>>11596425
I was making more of a general statement rather than anything with that image. People walking under heavy ass loads, poorly secured shit, junk lying all over the place etc... Not that I care, but it's funny.

>>11596436
>realises
Oi mate, oim not frankly shore any'n "realises" any'ing, pippip cheerio.

>>11596436
Me too senpai, NZfag here. Maybe we can do a /sfg/ meetup there and go bully the estronaut.

>>11596373
yeah just ignore the 870 000 people and focus on the minority of closed cases

>>11596435
county you ESL moron, there's no R

>>11596436
I'm definitely going to be there.

>>11595378
They better have a plan to rescue the dog if the first woman on the moon is white.

>>11596145
Kinda diverging but it's crazy how well Krypton's fate works as an analogy to Earth's future and how no one ever wants to write Superman's origin that way.

>>11596444
heh that sounds like a laugh. We could get insulting sfg-themed t-shirts made and everything

>>11596442
Weak anon, you didn't even remember to insult my teeth

>>11596488
I'll buy a fucking boat and sail it to Texas if there's still a lockdown on and no flights etc.

>>11595873
So what will Artemis look like then?
>Artemis 1: SLS B1 Crew with Unmanned Orion
>Artemis 2: SLS B1b Cargo with HLS
>Artemis 3: SLS B1 Crew with manned Orion, dock with HLS, then lunar landing

>>11595873
>>11595903
>>11596261
Could someone tell me what this all means

I'm a brainlet

>>11596515
Whatever the plan is, NASA better hope that Trump gets reelected and that they could do it in less than four launches (with the SLS's yearly launch rate maximum) before he leaves the office and the next president guts the program.

starship testing is taking longer than i expected

>>11595873
This is so they can save face and get block 1B in position to launch LUVOIR and justify the continuation of SLS for the next decade.. isnt it...

>>11596525
It's supposed to represent how detrimental SLS is to American space flight.

>Jupiter
An alternative to Ares/Constellation and SLS. Pretty much it's what the SLS was supposed to be. Think Saturn I with Shuttle components.

>ISO/LISA
No clue other than that was from the Constellation program which was a huge mess.

>Orbital Reufeling
(Allegedly) SLS supporters within Congress shut down any and all research into orbital propellant depots and orbital refueling as those technologies would allow for smaller rockets to lift heavier payloads beyond LEO. This would make SLS's existence questionable as alot of it's support is banked on it being the largest rocket that would fly.

>Artemis 3-8
SLS is taking so long that NASA has to slim down their moon plans in order to get something done before the next administration will inevitably cancel Artemis, at the expense of any actions that would guarantee long term missions around the moon. Without Artemis 3-8, NASA could just put some footprints and flags on the moon, leave, and then don't come back for another 50 years.

>>11596529
Agree. They are """making great progress on Artemis 01""" despite being in full shutdown.

>>11596555
>boosters done
>ICPS pulled out of storage
>core stage done
>core stack on the test stand at Stennis
>one last test before this train wreck can launch
>no one is doing anything
>it's just sitting there
>mrw
JUST FUCKING GET IT DONE SO IT'S OVER WITH!

>>11595176
One month shut down is 1 year delay !

inb4 it blows over when the crane releases it.

>>11595852
based

>>11596538
>(Allegedly) SLS supporters within Congress shut down any and all research into orbital propellant depots and orbital refueling as those technologies would allow for smaller rockets to lift heavier payloads beyond LEO. This would make SLS's existence questionable as alot of it's support is banked on it being the largest rocket that would fly.
>SLS is taking so long that NASA has to slim down their moon plans in order to get something done before the next administration will inevitably cancel Artemis, at the expense of any actions that would guarantee long term missions around the moon. Without Artemis 3-8, NASA could just put some footprints and flags on the moon, leave, and then don't come back for another 50 years.
I'm worried about American spaceflight, bros. We ARE going to the Moon again, right?

>>11596569
>"we did it. by the end of the year we'll be ready to start stacking in the vab"
>pic related
>"god damnit"

>>11596616
Of course we are. On the SLS? lol no it would take a fucking miracle

>>11596616
Yeah that's a bunch of BS. I guess I was too subtle in my original post.
The only reason to defer EUS crew-rating would be if it's being used to launch the lander. ICPS will already be crew-rated, and that'll be used for Orion.

>>11596620
seethe

>>11596633
>"seethe" he says
>his soul weighted down with yet more news of SLS delays

>>11596695
:(

https://spacenews.com/safety-panel-concludes-may-launch-of-commercial-crew-test-flight-is-feasible/

“Much remains to be resolved before they will be expected to be certified for human spaceflight,” Sanders said of Boeing, saying that work goes beyond a second OFT mission.

That second flight, she said, “is not sufficient to address the concerns that have arisen following the OFT, and we continue to strongly advise NASA to ensure that the underlying technical and organization or cultural shortcomings uncovered during the investigation of the mishap and subsequent reviews are fully addressed and mitigated before any attempt to launch astronauts on the vehicle.”
THE
ABSOLUTE
STATE
OF
BOING

>>11596730
Spacex is hereby forced to merge with ULA and give its dragon capsule (now designated Starliner 2.0) over to Boeing.

Fuel depots are also banned for being bad for the environment.

>>11596529
Block 1B is insufficient for LUVOIR, anon
it doesn't have enough mass throw for it

>>11596616
Trump will win.

>>11596766
No, but if they say they are ((ahead)) of building 1B they can say Block 2 can be built in time for LUVOIR in 2030 and that it should be launched on SLS so all that money doesn't go to waste and secure funding.

>>11596779
Block 2 is fake, even with all of the proposed upgrades for SLS it won't meet the throw mass for it to legally be called Block 2

>>11596781
Won't stop the contractors form lobbying to get it built.

>>11596616
Yeah, at this rate SLS might not be the first post-Apollo rocket to get us there, but yes.

>>11596781
At this point, NASA can just tweak the SRBs and call that Block 2. There isn't really any solid definition of what Block 2 is supposed to be other than it uses the EUS and "improved boosters".

>>11596804
there's a few performance numbers that Congress have mandated that the black knight boosters won't help them reach

>>11596527
We know, Elon.

>>11596810
>boost means steal
>black (k)nig(ht) boosters
Sheeeeeeeeit.

>>11596810
I can't believe SLS is using technology salvaged from the Black Knight Satellite.

>>11596847
I wish SLS used reverse engineered alien technology. Would easily explain why the project took so long and is so expensive despite using recycled Shuttle technology.

astromech droid confirmed

I recognize those small tubs. pretty sure every single shop in the US has them.

>>11597020
>small tubs
highlight please?

>>11597022
the gray things on the racks

>>11597026
oh, yeah
those things are great
personally I'm laughing about the MIG briefcase sitting on the scaffolding
at least, I think it's a MIG briefcase

>>11597026
literally everything in that picture is gray

>>11597031
usually they're yellow. Maybe Musk is at it again with his colors decree. it seems like it

>>11597043
I've seen green, blue and red before as well

OK, /sfg/ how could you unfuck SLS and Artemis?

Where do you even begin?

>>11597048

>>11597048
easy: actually hold contractors accountable for their failures. No guaranteed contracts.

>>11597045

You expecting some fancy over-priced contracted-out custom parts storage solution?

This is not Boing or Lockheed. This is not bankrolled by a NASA contract.

>>11597058
no, I've seen all colors of the rainbow off-the-shelf, anon

>>11597020
I thought Elon learned his lesson about only using competent aryan workers.

>>11597031
Probably a subtle way of reducing visual distraction. You don't want a giant colored bin drawing your eye if you're on hour fourteen of some very delicate work.

>>11597048
Make it reusable. Fine the contractors ten million dollars a day for missed deadlines.

secret nose cone

>>11597048
delete sls

replace the gateway with a real moon base, even if its a fucking tiny one

>>11595555

>>11597048
Cancel SLS and reconfigure Artemis mission architecture to use F9/FH launches, with the craft being assembled in LEO. If Gateway stays in the picture, that's getting built in LEO too and flown out to the Moon with a kick stage that will later be adapted for more living/experimental space.

>>11597048
Fining the contractors is the obvious first step, then I would not build on SLS beyond Block 1B and declare it a 'safety net' to provide more funding for competing rockets to be developed in the private industry that we would offer later Artemis/SLS projects too if they prove a more financially and scientific advancement than SLS.

Gateway can remain but I would open module extension with immediate effect to private corporations to create an orbital base for future moon bases.

that fake video is making the news, nobody is claiming it's fake though except in the comments, the news articles keep passing it off as legit. clearly there's some campaign going on to attack starlink/spacex.

>>11597154
What video?

>>11597048
Kill SLS, re-fund Lockheed to make a manned Venturestar, then build a nuclear shuttle in orbit with an Artemis capsule docked at the front and make von braun's Mars project come true.

>>11597160

>>11595654
>>11595663

>>11597154
Redact all "journalists"

>>11597048
It's not really possible, the concept was fucked from the very beginning. If I could somehow be in a position to make a proposition which would guaranteed become SLS though, it would be this, H(eavy)L(ift)S(ystem), essentially an enormous Saturn sized Falcon Heavy but with four boosters like the Soyuz rather than two. First the propulsion:
Core stage is powered by four F1b keroLOX engines.
Each booster will be self-flying and self-landing, they'll return to four subsidiary pads for minor refurbishment. Each booster will use the same F1b engine for a total of eight firing in the first stage.
The core stage will perform a short boostback burn and return to a landing pad made of a modified oil rig platform situated off the coast of the launch site. A combination of multiple paired sets of small grid fins and expended drogue parachutes will allow the huge core stage to kill it's speed and safely land on the platform where it will be tipped by a gantry and deposited on a drone tug to be returned to land for refurbishment and refueling.
The second stage bus will essentially be a stubby winged Starship/Shuttle like gliding body with robust carbon-carbon tiles bolt-welded to it's spaceframe, it will use a vacuum optimized high chamber pressure cluster of FFSC methaLOX rockets for primary propulsion and common methaLOX RCS and retrorocket packs for fine maneuvering and landing assistance. It will carry somewhere between 150 and 200 tons and similar to Starship it will reenter somewhat like a shuttle but perform a retropropulsive landing instead of a gliding touchdown.

Contractors will deliver on time or receive zero money, there will be few enough to count on two hands, they will be required to share all relevant technology, collaborate directly for complex systems such as avionic software and provide regular updates on all progress, a priest will be called on to banish Shelby back to Hell.

it begins

anybody who can guess what these are gets fifteen free internet points

>>11597192
>there will be few enough to count on two hands

5 - 5?

>>11597243
>>11597247
Fins

>>11597248
No more than ten.

>>11597243
>>11597247
sierra nevada chubby chaser?

>>11597254
>>11597249
congrats, you win
the first Dream Chaser is getting its wings
I'm not sure but I think they might only be building one of the cargo versions and just building a bunch of orbital modules for it and reusing it over and over, shuttle style

>>11597048
>OK, /sfg/ how could you unfuck SLS and Artemis?

>Where do you even begin?

Like this.

alright /sfg/ lets say the mars colony is going well, and they need a fast food chain to start opening stores.
What should the first fast food restaurant on mars be?

I vote Taco Bell

>>11597354
Publix

>>11597354
In N Out. Then Chick-fil-A. Mars will be a godly planet.

given how open the construction of starship is relative to other rockets, how easy is it for other launch companies to build their own version of starship just from the available info in short time?

>>11597354
Milo's.

>>11597104
:O

>>11597354
It really depends on what farm animals we are willing to ship to mars first.

>>11597368
Impossible. Raptor engines use sorcery-tier metallurgy.

>>11597387
It’s vastly more efficient to just grow plants. Animal agriculture is for cavemen with no empathy.

>>11597368
Rapidly iterated steel construction using simple tools? Not too hard to replicate, if governments can stand to not micromanage every aspect of the process (doubtful).

The propulsion tech? No way, Raptors require unobtanium alloy for the oxygen-rich side of the preburner assembly.

>>11597392
I'll break your limbs, fold your spine in half, and fry you up on the grill boy

>>11597408
K

>>11597422
>>11597408
Meat on Mars won't depend on livestock, it'll depend on the fraction of new arrivals that get upset because living on Mars wasn't the utopian fantasy they imagined and it's actually a lot of work, but they want to stick to their Earth privileges and stop being productive enough to justify their draw on the life support system.

>>11597437
Sure it will
You need meat to live on
Nor is it particularly expensive

>>11597463
>You need meat to live on

No you don’t.

Somebody get Dreamchaser some contracts. It's going to be boring if Starship is the only American manned spacecraft available.

>>11597470
Ain’t no faggy vegetarians on venus mate you stay on mars maybe
We will bioengineer floating plants that can survive in the atmosphere

>>11597048
Replace SLS with pic related. Throw all the Gateway components into lunar orbit as fast as they can build Heavys and once Starship comes online use it as a shiny tube shuttle to assemble the gateway station with robot arm and EVAs.

>>11597474
You mean Crew Dragon?!

>>11597474
Dreamchaser is a fucking meme right now. It's designed for an expendable rocket platform and its service module is ejected on reentry. It needs a version 2 compatible with reusable rockets (Vulcan?) with more cargo capacity and no expendable service module.

>>11597502
Imagine if it was compatible with Falcon 9. Holy shit that'd be amazing.

>>11597368
Raptor and software for Starship is impossible to copy from video and pic.

>>11597502
>no expendable service module
dragon xl...

>>11597502
It can’t be that hard to stick a fuel tank onto a plane. We’ve been doing that for how long now?

>>11597247
>anybody who can guess what these are gets fifteen free internet points
Hardwood, now pay up. I've been saving all my internet points, I'm going to finally buy a GF.

>wings instead of just a paraglider

That’s how you know it’s a meme

>>11597507
There is no advantage in reusability over Dragon 2.
Itms arguably worse since Dreamchaser needs fairings that they need to try and catch every time.

>>11597502
Vulcan is less reusable than the Shuttle was. Starship/SuperHeavy is still the only fully reusable system in development.

>>11597507
Put that on a Heavy and you have humans in geosynchronous orbit for the first time since Apollo.

>>11597551
Dreamchaser has a gentler, lower G entry profile than Dragon and can land on runways.

>>11596914
What is that?

>>11597048
stop giving nasa money to jerk off with and convince congress that SLS is a retarded idea

>>11597592
Tesla Model S motor.

>>11597612
no

>>11597613
i dont know for sure anon but it looks like he might be right

>>11597656
huh

>>11597354
So you go all the way to to Mars just to open another fast food?
Sounds like humanity is really doomed.

>>11597674
fast food, pub, park

>>11597656
Maybe it’s a winch for something.

>>11597713
Or maybe it's to actuate the fins somehow

>>11597714
As far as I know the force needed to actuate them far outweighs what those motors can produce.

>>11597741
The fins don't need to rotate at a few thousand rpm, you know

>>11597765
You can safely assume we all know that.
With the right gears it can make any torque, just the stronger the slower.
Basically it all depends on how quick the fins must react during flights, I suppose pretty quick and that basically rules out electric.
But I'm no engineer, I'll leave more knowledgeable people talk about that

>>11597789
Well, how do planes control their control surfaces?

>>11597797
usually hydraulics

>>11597789
Pretty sure electric motors can respond way faster than hydraulics

>>11597257
How is Dream Chaser even still a thing? Not hating, just curious.

>>11597806
Max redundancy. They do not want to go back to a time like the shuttle ever again. The Boing capsule is a fucking train wreck right now and god knows when they'll unfuck it enough to crew rate it which leaves them with one option, the Crew Dragon.
If the Crew Dragon should suffer a RUD, they'll be grounded for years until they figure out what went wrong and they're back to Roskosmos being the only ride in town.

>>11597810
I thought they were DOA after they didn't make it into the final two. Has NASA been funneling them money this entire time?

>>11597813
They got thrown a bone with CRS-2 missions. There's no doubt they'll be given a crew rating later down the line, especially if Boing keeps fucking up.

>>11597815
Well, considerations for CRS-2. Not given missions yet. They have to fly demo first in 2021.

>>11597815
>if Boing keeps fucking up
At this point that's pretty much given.

>>11597714
Last thing Elon said there wouldn‘t be fins on this one.

>>11597815
>crew rating
Do they have a version that doesn‘t ride in the fairings?

>>11597970
Not that I know of.

>>11597898
I'm hoping that there's a revolt somewhere and Boing management gets fucked leading to the company getting unfucked. Where's the shareholders when you need them?

>>11596633

>>11597970
Soyuz also rides in the fairings, so that's not realy an issue I guess...

>>11597108
gateway is underwhelmingly tiny anyway, so definitely an improvement

I wonder if NASA will be able to find a good reason to keep the Gateway alive in a Starship world.

>>11597392
>>11597354
>only plants
Nothingburger

>>11597392
Not really, we'll probably be raising silkworms and shit like that for protein alongside plants. Plant protein is trash for a complete essential amino acid profile.

>>11598021
>2030
>routine starship flights to mars
>sls stacking delayed again
>boeing gets another billion in funding

>>11598051
>laughs in pea protein
Not a vegan but this is a meme and just factually not true. What you won't be able to get out of plants is B12 and vit D, but that isn't hebby or bulky so it's not much of an issue.

>>11594995
mate it`s huge

>>11598103
Contains all 9 essential amino acids, but low protein content (5%) and while it "contains" them, the actual value of some of them such as methionine is practically negligible.
No, we won't be eating pea protein.

>>11598123
What's the protein content of a silkworm after you factor in feedstock and whatever else you need to keep them alive on top of what you're growing to feed them? I'm gonna guess a lot less than 5%. For early missions you're better off with plants and/or supplements for as much as possible (and there are plants with methionine; I didn't realize pea protein was low admittedly, but it's not something I have to think about much as I eat eggs and dairy)

>>11598155
A hell of a lot better than eggs and dairy as well as pea protein. The little buggers happily live off leaves and are very easy to raise.

>>11598163
Fuck off bugman, colonists aren't going to be eating fucking bugs for any longer than absolutely necessary. Chickens are going to be number one on import list.

>>11598163
>Grow 10lb of high protein plant stock, with ~.5lb net protein
>Grow 10lb of nutritionally dead herbivore stock, grow 1lb of silkworms with ~.2lb net protein

>>11598174
First colonists are going to have to make do. Don't like it, stay at home with your creature comforts. You won't fucking last the trip to Mars and shitting in a diaper or through a vacuum hose with that mindset.

>>11598178
>Forget that the silkworms are raised as a side product of the plant matter you're growing.
Yes, they are fed on the parts you don't eat from the same stuff grown to feed your ass. The point is to create an ecosystem where you minimize loss. Your meme protein powder diet is the antithesis of that.

>>11598181
You should be minimizing the inedible portion of what you grow as much as possible anyway. This is already done for indoor growing on Earth, with indoor cultivars minimizing root structure and non-edible portions, and would be even more important in space. If you have a bunch of surplus leaves you planned very inefficiently.

>>11598200
If you're going to start a colony on Mars, you're going to be in need of plants that produce nothing but biomatter anyway. That's the only way to produce soil. Other than that, you're going to be growing more than just lettuce, you're going to be growing various other food plants and they produce non-edible (to us) leaves, which can be fed to the critters which can in turn feed us.

It's going to take a long time to create a self sustaining system, but that's how you start one. It's either that or wait for next supply drop of MREs and hope some crazy chink didn't drop a vial a sneeze juice again.

>>11598209
>That's the only way to produce soil
1- you can and absolutely will have to retrieve nutrients from human waste. Human waste processing is a thing, and it's unavoidable in space.
2- soil is a ridiculously inefficient use of those resources. soil grown plants are hungry, root-heavy, and unnecessary, and the soil itself is the biggest weight penalty in the whole system. everything will be grown through aero- or hydroponics

>>11598235
You're not thinking long term. aero and hydroponics is just for filling your fucking belly in stage one. Soil is a necessity for changing the surface of the planet long term. You can't just toss out an acorn on the surface of a planet and hope it'll stick.
And yes, I'm well aware that we'll be recycling shit and piss for nutrients and whatnot. I'm not squeamish about the chemistry behind it.

>>11598250
>You're not thinking long term.
I'm taking the perspective of early colonization effort, because that's the critical period. Will there eventually be entire lava tube structures or covered domes with fibre optics piping in solar to concentrators which keep mini-ecosystems alive? Yes, because humans are humans. But that's only possible after you've successfully survived starting from scratch. That part is what matters.

Also no one is terraforming anything, ever.

>>11598266
>Also no one is terraforming anything, ever.
As soon as we'll set up a permanent presence there, we'll start the paperwork on terraforming and start it shortly afterwards. Whether it'll be successful or not is another thing entirely.

>>11598278
there's exactly 0 reason to terraform a planet. The technology necessarily follows breakthroughs in energy and engineering that render it redundant.

>>11598284
>there's exactly 0 reason to terraform a planet
"there's exactly 0 reason to send manned expeditions to space"
That's the argumentation many people use too. We'll do it because we can.

>>11598278
We'll keep bandying concepts about, some startups might set up small scale pilot projects, but as a serious endeavor it doesn't even reach the start line. You won't see the benefits for thousands of years, it's debatable if they're really 'benefits' at all, and it would be the greatest singular effort ever undertaken by mankind. Even if you got past all that and fast forwarded a couple thousand years, it'll probably be well on its way to overbalancing into one cataclysm or another because sustaining mild global conditions is basically a miracle.

>>11598294
Is it a gargantuan undertaking unheard of? Absolutely. Will we be seeing results from it in our lifetimes? Absolutely not.
But will it be done? I have no doubt about it.

>>11598287
Enjoy trying to move an entire settled population off world as your terraforming process mass wastes the ground and rips apart every building built on even slightly moist ground. Terraforming is only going to be viable on planets with no populations, you can forget Mars right now.

>>11598181
You aren't going to attract any settlers, of which there are many less than you think to start with, if their meat choices are reconstituted bug patties, go push that propaganda elsewhere, chickens and fish are entirely viable sources of food and no one gives a fuck about your NASA tier science project mass optimisation, we are going there to build a society, not live in pods and eat bugs.

>>11598305
I very much doubt you're going anywhere.

>>11598284
Well you can build structures in space for people to live on using materials, or modify existing space that provides materials.

>>11598306
Project harder incel

>>11598287
Sometimes "because I can" is the glory of exploration or something fundamentally transformative to the human condition, but sometimes it's just a vanity project. Knowing where to draw the line is important. Through terraforming on the pile with all of the failed attempts at creating paradise and utopia before it.

>>11598322
throw* kek

>>11598415
>>11598415

Apparently OP is even more of a faggot than usual lately and never fucking links in the old thread.

>>11598051
>>11598103
nah mates, it's all about that CRAB

>>11598458
>page 8

>>11598664
Why would being on page 8 stop you from posting a link you fucking retard?

>>11598174
unironically goats might come at roughly the same time as chickens. got me wondering what'd be on the menu on an early mars colony

>>11599047
I've said it before and I'll say it again, on an input-output metric guinea pigs are the most efficient meat source