/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11583448
Remember to exercise

>>11583448
i have a simple question,
was apollo 11 real?

>>11583452
Yes, as were all the other Apollo missions.

>>11583452
yeah
what specifically caused you to ask this question

>>11583456
i know vice is garbage, but i found this to be interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBDZPPSzWUY

>>11583459
>i know vice is garbage, but
no

>>11583452
At least Saturn V is real

>>11583468
you can see the rocket corpses, the unfinished remnants still lying about

>starship test tomorrow
>starlink launch 2 days later
its gonna be a good week

>>11583476

No, the foam is impregnated with basalt fibers, which are slightly stronger than glass fibers. It's also not a random mix of short fibers, they'd be long and wrap across the entire shape in a loose weave, with about 20% of the total fiber count being even longer and tangled around the more orderly ones for structure's sake.

HOLY SHIT GUYS, ELON FUCKING DID IT!!!

>>11583506
>What did it cost?
>$900 million per launch

It's not fair. I wanna see the orange rocket fly. Why can't a private company handle it? That shit'd be flying years ago if SpaceX got the responsibility for this thing.

What would adapting to higher gravity conditions be like?

>>11583512
The main point of the SLS was to use existing Shuttle parts and spread jobs across as many Congressional districts as possible. The rocket actually flying is a side effect.

>>11583513
very tiring
above 3g it's probably impossible

>>11583512
>Meanwhile at Boeing in Bizarro World.

>>11583513
>Why yes, I do live and workout in the famous ultra-high gravity space station, Gainz Station 13. How could you tell?

So I gotta ask, why werent diagonal take off rockets with wings for lift a thing?

>>11583534
The lift you gain from doing that runs out within a minute of flight and then you're just hauling useless mass around in vacuum. It's the same reason SSTO doesn't happen.

>>11583546
stage the wings?

>>11583557
Stage sep doesn't happen until well after the wings would be providing useful lift on modern rockets.

>>11583513
Like being fat but without the actual physiological disadvantage of having all that fat. You ever see a fat man's calves after he slims down?

Even Elon Musk admitted the other day, on record, that he doesnt think we'll get to Mars before he dies (if the rate of progress/innovation stays the same).
It's literally over for you spacefags, stop playing with your rocket toys and do some real science for once.

>>11583582
why do you think he's blowing up trashcans in Texas?
he's trying to measurably change the rate of progress/innovation
your recommendation is to go back to the status quo and not attempt to change the rate of progress/innovation

What’s the estimated cubic meters per person in Starship?

>>11583601
~5?

>>11583582
>Even Elon Musk admitted the other day, on record, that he doesnt think we'll get to Mars before he dies

Misquote he said we wouldn’t get to Mars if Starship didn’t exist. Weak bait gets “hidden”. Bye bye!

>>11583604
this cope is delicious, i quoted him word for word KEK
>>11583588
You are delusional. We all saw how depressed he was in the video.
It made me laugh a lot.

Spacefags are all talk, but they don't deliver on their extraordinary claims.

Remember the timeline Musk had, LMFAO.

Mars landing was supposed to happen in 2025 (or before) and now Musk is saying after he's dead.
We all told you so. You're just wasting your time.
Solve the Artificial General Intelligence problem first and then it will make your stupid rocket toys.

soooon

>>11583582
Sure, he or I or you might not see the first steps on Mars, but that isn't a reason to give up on space flight. There's still plenty to do and work on. As for "real science", space flight can unlock that. The cheaper access to space allowed by Starship will allow for larger and more capable probes. Such probes can study space much more deeply than even Cassini. Space is full of unique conditions that can't be reproduced accurately in a lab and thus gives a unique perspective on how the universe works. We could see a Renaissance of deep space robotic exploration. Not just cheap rovers and orbitals, but fully equipped mini-bases with a team of robots and the like.

tl:dr - okay doomer

Artemis isn't cancelled r-right?

>>11583567
calves of god I tell you

>>11583613
oh no we go too cocky spaceflight bros, ahhh elon help, (You), how will we ever recover, etc

>>11583618
>Still trying to bait

Remember when flat earthers would always appear in the thread and they eventually disappeared after people ignored them?

>>11583582
>>11583613
>ooooops, because even elon allegedly said even he thinks actual mars colonization is impossible, you might as well give up and submit to us goy!
>w-what do you mean i fumbled that quote! c-cope!
>STOP EXPOSING US. GOY.
>Please goyim, we just want to control you NOOOOOOO

This thread has a fever and the only prescription is retro space art.

>>11583642

>>11583643

>>11583582
(You)

>>11583647
>>11583643
>>11583642
and now the space retards are franticly posting pictures to reassure themselves, Mars Human mission will happen ... years after you're dead.
KEK
Don't listen to me, just listen to Elon, your hero BAHAHHAHAHA

Baito desu

>>11583509
Only $900 million? I thought it was more like $1.2 billion.

>>11583742
the costs are all screwed up but the actual marginal cost to the government for every additional flight is $900 million or so

>>11583747
>Price of 10 Falcon Heavy launches for a quarter the payload to LEO
And that's using conservative numbers that favor SLS

>>11583643

Is Io’s sulfur of any potential economic use?

>>11583812
Not pictured: Spaceman Spiff being pursued by the furious Zarg beasts of Momutron 4 trying to capture him for fiendish tortures such as "homework" and "broccoli."

>>11583770
Now you understand why Starship gets shilled against so heavily. Oldspace is fucking DONE once you can get 100t to LEO for the cost of fuel and maintenance.

>>11583850
I don't know that sulfur really has any particular use in that kind of bulk.

>>11583886
I hope that Boing getting fucked over on that GLS contract statement indicates a serious change in NASA's attitude towards its contractors.

>>11583850
We can't even find an economic use for the stuff on Earth.

>>11583850
Sulfuric acid has a ton of industrial applications, especially chemical fertilizer. Ship to Ganymede or Mars or wherever you're growing crops off Earth.

>>11583904
Just chuck it up 50+ cubic meters at a time on Starship.

>>11583901
That looks really cool. Wish I had a chunk of sulfur

>>11583915
That's yellow cake uranium.

>>11583917
That's elemental sulfur left over from Canada's tar sand bitumen extraction operations.

>>11583920
That’s really just a biproduct? Wow

>>11583901
Imagine the smell.

>>11583927
>That’s really just a biproduct? Wow
Yup, and the piles from refining that one source of Canadian crude is enough to supply the global demand for sulfuric acid for over a year.

>>11583927
>>11583930
Tar sands are the shittiest oil on the planet. Oil shittiness is related to more long-chain hydrocarbons and sulfur content. Venezuelan oil is also full of sulfur, as are the barrel-scrapings they fuel container ships with.

>>11583939
Yeah, I know that tar sands are bottom feeder grade oil. The only point I was making is that there's plenty of unwanted sulfur to go around.

>>11583942
Here, at least, but how abundant is it actually elsewhere? May just be cheaper to get it there if it can be found

>>11583946
It all depends on shipping time and costs. If we're colonizing the moons of the gas giants, Io is a hell of a lot closer. For Mars and the Belt it's a toss up. Venus has its own ludicrous sulfur supplies even in the upper atmosphere.

>>11583946
>The elemental composition of Mars is different from Earth's in several significant ways. First, Martian meteorite analysis suggests that the planet's mantle is about twice as rich in iron as the Earth's mantle. The planet's distinctive red color is due to iron oxides on its surface. Second, its core is richer in sulphur. Third, the Martian mantle is richer in potassium and phosphorus than Earth's and fourth, the Martian crust contains a higher percentage of volatile elements such as sulphur and chlorine than the Earth's crust does. Many of these conclusions are supported by in situ analyses of rocks and soils on the Martian surface.

Meanwhile, on the Moon, you'll find 99.9% of the crust is made of Silica, Alumina, Lime, Iron (II) oxide, magnesia, titanium dioxide, and sodium oxide.

>>11583960
You can use the Martian sulphur to make a sort of concrete supposedly

it's 2:21AM and I'm freaked out in bed since FTL travel is impossible, so we're stuck here with a handful of planets and rocks

>>11583995
0.2c gets you to Alpha Centauri in about 30 years, and we haven't ruled out wormhole shenanigans yet.

>>11583995
>FTL travel is impossible because the priests said so, and they’re never wrong and never are disproven by future discoveries.

>Traveling outside of the solar system at sub-light speeds is impossible because I said so

>Freaking out over dumb things

Cringe

>>11584003
this isn't an episode of James Burke's Connections, FTL travel won't just pop up all of a sudden out of current developments. Physics is done and done on the matter on it.

>>11583452
no, but Apollo 12 was

>>11584035
>So sayeth the sacred texts! The words of the high priests are absolute and doubting them is heresy.

>>11584035
>>11584035
Well the trick is not to travel faster than light, it's to figure out how to cover long distances in short time while still being (locally) slower than light, either by bending space-time, or through wormholes or whatever

>>11584042
It's not for a lack of investigation on the part of physics. The universe is a real whore about anything going faster than light. It has been confirmed, *experimentally,* that the universe sacrifices cause and effect before it gives up the absolute limit of the speed of light.

>>11584045
>It's not for a lack of investigation on the part of physics

Investigate harder and with greater intelligence.

>>11584048
I appreciate the sentiment, but you can't investigate a tomato hard enough that it becomes romaine lettuce.

>>11584053
You don’t know that. I will never make absolute statements until all physical phenomenon are described perfectly without inconsistency.

>muh Afshar experiment

>>11584053
With the power of gene editing you could do all sorts of unspeakable things to a tomato, or at least a series of tomatoes

>>11583502
it doesn't matter what it's "wrapped in" you're sending a 4.5m diameter 100t platinum slug hurdling towards the earth at roughly 7,500 m/s, the foam is going to have to withstand an impact force of 7.6e11 newtons. Acting on the bottom hemisphere of the orb, we're talking 240,000,000,000 joules of energy, about 10 tonnes of TNT.

>>11584072
Hear me out- 100t of platinum foil crumpled up into a loose ball. How retarded do your drag and density numbers have to get it get until you have something that just drifts down the gravity well?

>>11583642
Based Manchu

>>11584093
I remember pace mining advocates speaking of precious metal foams and stuff like that to send them back to Earth, no idea how feasible it is though

>>11584099
A giant disc the thickness of a quarter near the edges that gradually bulges to about two inches in the middle. Huge death frisbee from space, coming to bisect a fucking building.

>>11584106
Flashbacks to that thread with the one anon not understanding why spin-forming Starship tank domes would never happen.

>>11584107
>Not wanting to build a 20+m spinforming rigs, shitting out full seamless hulls every couple of days

>>11584045
If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.
We could find ways to hybernate, or building AI so advanced they would part of our own civilization, or even better upload our own brain in an artificial and very durable body.
In all those ways a long voyage is doable.
I know it's SciFi stuff but doesn't violate the laws of the universe, it's a lot more realistic than FTL.

>>11584123
Just use a wormhole lol

Webb telescope will never be lauched. Sorry guys. Economic colapse will kill science. It can't be stored and it will degrade and there will never be money to restart the program again. And this is only the iceberg tip.

>>11583930
If you liked that

>>11584123
>upload our own brain in an artificial and very durable body.
Benevolent AGI that let us do this WHEN?


Also dunno if anon if anon-in-deep-space-exploration-vessel form is a good idea.

>>11584174
whats stopping them from just launching it?
its basically finished, so very few if any additional costs can be expected.
and yes i know the meme how it will only launch in 2026

>>11583520
by your herniated disks in your collapsed manlet spine

>>11584174
>JWST never launches won't that make you spacebois so SAD
I think you underestimate the deep pleasure I get from watching oldspace boondoggles unravel. JWST launching or not launching is a win either way.

>>11584093
probably break up and disintegrate in re-entry due to heat.

>>11584242
Apu you have your hazmat suit on backwards.

>>11584250
i turned around in utter disgust

>>11584093
that's not how reentry works. You'd have to burn retrograde 7-8 km/s from leo to just 'drift down the gravity well' otherwise you're hitting the atmosphere at ridiculous relative velocity. Even then, gravity will accelerate you pretty fast through the upper portion of the atmosphere. Considering you essentially need a fully refueled starship just to kill the orbital velocity, might as well just bring it back to earth on one

>>11583995
FTL travel wont matter once we have an average lifespan of 1 million years. 100 years to get from one solar system to another will be nothing.

>>11584276
Completely killing your orbital velocity with thrust when you have a perfectly good atmosphere to do it with is inane. All you need to do is drop your Pt ball on an orbit that intersects tenuous atmosphere and get on with your day.

>>11584286
yeah but then you're slamming into an atmosphere at orbital velocity and your ball is definitely burning up

>>11584228
This, JWST launching is good for science, JWST not launching is a big nail in the oldspace coffin

>>11583621
Rollin', rollin', rollin'...

>>11583901
>>11584176
Looks like they're trying to build pyramids. Just imagine what a far-future or alien civilization would think of those.

>>11584292
It isn't hard to coat something in ablative material when it's just a solid slug of metal (I know anon said foil but that's dumb). Shape it like a capsule so you have a predictable re-entry profile and you can basically spray on a collection of household products that will keep it in tact enough to hit the ground as a solid lump.

>>11583452
The only Apollo mission that actually happened was Apollo 21, when they investigated alien ruins.

Out of curiosity: is there any aerospace engineer or aerospace engineering student in here, or it's just a circlejerk of space-enthusiasts?

>>11583850
Export it to Hell

>>11583770
When the government is counting they include the weight of the upper stage as payload

>>11584099
tf are you on about? there isn't anyone respectable saying to bring shit back to Earth with current technology. The value of space mining always was that the material is outside of Earth's gravity well. That's why the only thing we'll ever harvest initially is just water.

>>11584439
Well if they used the delta v in the upper stage just for LEO they would be able to carry more payload, not less, so there's no bias there.

>>11584384
>Uelan

>>11584584
Government accounting doesn't have to make sense.

>>11584579
Asteroid mining is based on the idea that you can obtain enough rare metals on some asteroids that it would not only be worthwhile but extremely profitable to cart it back to Earth. Outside of rare metals, yes, the most valuable thing about anything outside of Earth's gravity well is that it's outside of it.

>>11584584
no it wouldn't, the burn time is too long

>>11584594
>start asteroid mining company
>spend millions just getting to one asteroid
>bring back tons of precious metals
>flood the markets because that's the only way to be profitable
>markets crash hard
>get charged with attempting to establish a monopoly
>company gets dissolved

>>11584621
>drop rocks on people attempting to dissolve your company
>cryptoanarchospacecapitalism

>>11584621
and you make hundreds of billions along the way...

>>11584627
shall not be infringed

>>11584601
Yes it would, the total rocket weight would increase, making the initial acceleration slower, but the upper stage acceleration would compensate, trading the total rocket delta v for a smaller mass ratio.

>>11584648
if your burn time is too long you just end up falling back into the atmosphere

>>11584627
-t.

>>11584652
You do suffer from more gravity drag, as it takes longer for the rocket to reach orbit velocity, but the rocket won't fall back into the atmosphere as long as the delta v is sufficient to reach LEO.

>>11584689
no, it's a thrust to weight issue

>>11584689
>thrust is a little low but i'll just keep burning till i reach orbit because i've got plenty of dv!
>oops my apogee is behind me, that's odd
>kaboom

>>11583518
Should be pitching down LOL (Boeing MAX MCAS joke)

>>11583518
Probably works in KSP.

>>11584732
Hullo-san used a wingless airbreathing first stage for a KSP series, it was also recoverable iirc.

>>11584746
Put fucking chutes on it and it's "recoverable" in KSP.

>>11584749
I've had a few situations where that's not true but yes in general it works
much harder is getting it back on the runway

>>11584749
haha yeah crazy

stole some cool graphs boys, eat up
>>11584757
it is absolutely fucking moronic that that works, you know that
10% payload hit for it, what the fuck
I guess only 10% explains why they're fishing them out of the sky with helicopters and boats

>>11584765
>the pace is still increasing
Jesus christ.

>>11584774
by the end of the year, the successor to that graph will be extremely enlightening

>>11584692
>>11584701
first stage thrust is 32000 kn (2 boosters) + 7440 kn (4 rs-25 engines) = 39 440 000 N - for a gross mass of 980 000 + 31 000 = 1 011 000 kg, that's an acceleration of 3,9 g's at sea level, with full fuel tanks.

You really think it doesn't have enough thrust to accomodate a slight increase in payload, at the cost of not being able to go beyond LEO?

>>11584862
the thrust to weight issue kicks in when you drop the second stage off in a suborbital trajectory, slap it on the back, and tell it to go get 'em, tiger

>>11584873
Second stage burns through it's entire fuel in 1125 seconds, or less than 20 minutes. Tell me more about these super short suborbital trajectories.

>>11583513
The shorter you are, the better you can take it.
It's based on the square/cube law:
Your weight is proportional to your volume wich is roughly proportional to the cube of your height.
You strength is proportional to the crossection of your muscles, wich is roughly proportional to the square of your height.
Both assuming simmilar body composition obviously.
In addition to that, there is the load on the cardiovascular system wich is strained more by higher blood pressure differences that also get worse with height.
>>11583517
Walking at 3G would be insane.
Just try taking 200% of you bodyweight worth ow weights and walk a mile.
That's still without the cardiovascular strain, but should give you an idea.
>>11583520
Honestly, mainly ultra short men with realy strong legs could deal with high gravity.
An upper body like that would make walking a pain in the ass.
Hell, even here on earth guys build like that struggle with any kind of endurance sports such as running or cycling.

>>11584862
>first stage
>in the ocean
>upper stage
>on a suborbital trajectory
In this situation, which thrust to weight are you concern about
hint: it isn't the first stage

>>11584903
twenty fucking minutes? that's an entire orbit, anon

>>11584627
Sounds a lot like what Zeon did to the earth federation...

>>11584924
yes

>>11584926

>>11584862
When determining whether or not you can afford to increase payload mass (ruling out your fairing limitations) you need to consider the second stage bus' TWR, not the first stage booster's TWR. Usually the booster's TWR is substantially more than absolutely necessary, so that it can be more flexible. The booster slings the bus up to orbital altitude, but if the bus takes 20 minutes to expend it's considerable fuel it will not be able to circularize quickly enough and it will reenter the atmosphere at a shallow angle before it can reach orbital velocity and either burn up or crash back to the ground.

>>11584919
if you are orbiting the earth below ground, sure.

>>11584931
wtf is zeon?

>>11584932
the core stage goes almost all the way to orbit and could put itself into orbit if you wanted it to (you don't)
>>11584937
anime joke, don't worry about
can't wait to take Mars for Zeon

>>11584937
They are a fraction from mobile suit gundam.
They get kind of opressed by the earth federation, are fed up with it, gas everyone in an entire O'Neill cylinder and then start a one year war by dropping it onto australia.

>>11584941
>the core stage goes almost all the way to orbit and could put itself into orbit if you wanted it to (you don't)
That isn't the scenario, the scenario is anon suggesting that you can lift a heavier payload and rely on the upper stage to make the difference, because he thinks dV alone is sufficient to reach orbit.

>>11584937
>wtf is Zeon
it's kind of like this

>>11584937
or maybe like this

Any spaceflight movie recommendations? Just watched First Man and it was shit.

>>11584937
>he doesn't even know the burden he carries

>>11584937
People who show up to laugh at you, from space.

>>11584964
I hear they're shredded

>>11584958
Depends on what exactly you are looking for.

>>11584972
He sure seems like a great man and I, Quattro Bajeena, am totaly not Char Aznable.
https://youtu.be/MhRYoDiQavM

>>11584949
>>11584932
To use the space shuttle as an example, it's main engines were firing for 9 minutes before cutoff, and the orbit was circularized only 45 minutes after launch. You are not in orbit at MECO, you need to wait a while.

>>11584765
Holy fuck

>>11584594
The only viable asteroid mining company on Earth got bought last year by a fucking crypto scam company who had nothing to do with their money.
There's nothing worth bringing to Earth at all. Even gold or platinum is pointless, prices would plummet years before you even got it back.
Good luck with those dreams kiddo. Water mining for fuel production is the only shit left.

>LC-39A destroyed by a tornado.
>Demo-2 will be delay for two years.

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1252295004820836353

>>11584307

Sounds like you have some serious materials science ahead of you, anon

>>11585109
the market doesn't crash until it's already clear that you will succeed in making it back with the materials and by that time you've already made enough sales to pay for the trip

HE SPENT MILLIONS

>>11584765
damn

>>11584958
Unfortunate. I loved it. Can’t wait to watch again in 4k VR.

>>11584053
kek

>>11585109
The trick is to sell it at a price range just short of what the competition charges yet more than you need to break even.
That sure will take a little longer than selling it all at once, but gives you a higher profit overall.
It also shuts down the competition as they can't operate profitable anymore if you undercut their break-even point by let's say 10-20% or so.

When you have a mining facility in orbit anyway, you can as well service and build spacecraft from there.
Keep in mind that you don't need the roughly 10 km/s of deltaV to get you into LEO wich make launching satellites so expensive.
As an example you could:
>refuel geostationary satelites
>repair/upgrade space telescopes
>recycle satelites in graveyard orbits
>build and launch new satellites
>build new spacecrafts/stations
>use otherwise useless material as radiation shielding

>>11585237
>When you have a mining facility in orbit anyway, you can as well service and build spacecraft from there.
I would have doubted this before Elon started making Starships in tents on the beach.

>>11585134
Meant to be an oblique reference to starlite there, insulator not ablator bit of a mixup but point being protecting a lump of inert metal is not as delicate as protecting a fragile, weight-optimized piece of science equipment carrying experiments/people.

>>11585337
The deamands to the structure of a spacecraft designed to operate only outside of the athmosphere are also a lot lower than the demands for a launch at several Gs or a re-entry.
In addition to that you can use material from the mine as well as recycled satelites, wich slows down the Kessler-syndrome.
Hell, you could probably re-use some parts such as solar panels or antennas directly.

Asteroid mining in earth orbit would sure kickstart the space economy as it would make space travel a profitable industry of significant size and requires autonomus space stations while dropping prices for them realy hard.

Eat lentils. They’re good for you

>>11585109
Of course prices will drop if you're sitting on a destabilizingly large quantity of something valuable for its rarity, but you control the market. People still WANT those metals. If you have to wait and spin some bullshit about it being difficult to get down to the surface while the prices normalize, you can.

>>11585428
Or you can just build a hundred meter platinum statue of yourself on the surface of the moon as a demonstration of supply.

>>11585435
>terrans still sifting platinum out of dust by the milligram because it's still too valuable to waste and you aren't sharing any
>meanwhile, in your personal habitat constructed out of pure platinum with iridium fittings

>>11585435
if you had access to a huge amount of platinum and were hoarding it from the world I would unironically consider that a crime against humanity

>>11585472
>NOOOO, YOU CAN'T JUST MONOPOLIZE 90% OF THE PRECIOUS METALS IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM AND USE THEM TO MAKE GIANT STATUES OF ELON MUSK
>HAHAHA STATUE SHINY

>>11585472
The initial fallout will be a panic spiral. It's likely you wouldn't get more than pennies on the dollar for all your hard work. Should space mining be a charity?

>>11585472
Feel free to come up here and fight about it. :^)

>>11585472
Why?
You're not limiting the supply further than it is now.
You have to return their investment somehow.
But selling it at a fixed price just below the competitions price would probably be the best choice IMHO.

>>11585472
Seething communist piece of shit BTFO by capitalist gods

Is Starship on the stand let?

-

>>11585380
this, manufacturing a spaceship is easier than manufacturing a car if you can have it start out in orbit and not go near atmosphere. Like seriously, an 18 yo with a welder and scrap could pull it off

>>11585491
you didnt go to the moon. It was the army that protects your rich 1% while you die in hunger and if you get a cancer in america your family loses all its wealth. even touhg you live like shit you defend the aristocracy and act as if their accomplishments are yours.

its like this:
i live in a 5 story house that i own.

then theres a guy a couple km down who owns a 20 story house, he has 50 people working on it. You would be like the guy who works scrubbing toilets there and brags to me about how big his owners house is.

keeep on inferioriating inferior, i can destory your ass whit words any time you want. thats it if you ever recover

>>11585092
i know, right

>>11585380
>In addition to that you can use material from the mine as well as recycled satelites, wich slows down the Kessler-syndrome.
It also gives heart attacks to spy agencies from countries without space marines because even anti-sat missiles typically can't reach beyond GTO, so if you haul their bird off to L3 they're fucked.

>>11585613
Seething bugman detected.

>>11585613
i hope toilet scrubber-san is proud, he works hard and provides a hygienic function. i would take him over the entire chinese space program.

>>11585613
I would much rather be a toilet cleaner in america than a rich person anywhere else. Material goods doesnt matter i know im working towards the common good.

Also, you dont get cancer if you excersise, in my society i can be healthy enough as long as im not an idiot while you retards have to pay taxes to pay healthcare for retarded assholes who dont excersise enough

>>11584924
>moots_revenge.jpg

listen
asteroid burn on reentry because they are shaped like asteroids aka like a fucking ball
the space shuttle didnt butn because its shaped like a plane
why dont they just shape the freshly mined asteroid precious rare shit like a space shuttle plane so instead of burning on reentry it would just fall safely somewhere on earth
the real risk, if anything, is that it would dive out of control and crash on a city or some shit

>>11585608
This, but unironicly.
You basicly build a pressure vessel, add batteries, solar panels, some sort of propulsion system that can be weak as fuck, athmospheruc controlls, reaction controll system and some shielding.
>>11585615
Imagine stealing these satelites and publishing details on the internet...
>>11585657
Pic related...

>>11585684
>asteroid burn on reentry because they are shaped like asteroids aka like a fucking ball
>the space shuttle didnt butn because its shaped like a plane
No. Go read up on how the Space Shuttle actually worked.

>>11585652
>you retards have to pay taxes to pay healthcare
Hmm...
>In 2018, the federal government and households each accounted 28 percent of health care spending (the largest shares) followed by private businesses (20 percent), state and local governments (17 percent), and other private revenues (7 percent).
>Federal government spending on health accelerated in 2018, increasing 5.6 percent after 2.8 percent growth in 2017.
>State and local government health care spending grew 2.5 percent in 2018
https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf

>>11585684
Asteroids burn up because they're loosely held together rubble piles. When they do have a metallic core it often survives, hence things like meteoric iron.

>>11585690
it was supposed to be a shitpost but i feel bad if you actually take it seriously

>>11585684
The space shuttle had a less than ideal shape.
Ironicly the most blunt shape causes the shockwave to form the furthest from the vehicle.
That's the reason why re-entry vehicles are typicly have a realy blunt surface facing forward and a conical rear to keep it stable.
The heatshield is the reason it doesn't burn up.
An ablative shield would be perfect for that, and you just drop it into the ocean as a solid piece of metal isn't exactly fragile...

>>11585697
>>11585702
then why are people making a big deal out of crashing all the precious shit on earth?

>>11585613
Seething Eurotrash wishes his flag was on the moon

>>11585714
Because it's precious and losing even one unit would cost you a fortune.
The hardest part is to recover it from the floor of the ocean.

>>11585722
they will resort to inflatable balloons like they wanted to do with the titanic or the bismarck or the really big ships

>>11585714
We're used to seeing shit catastrophically destroy itself on atmospheric entry because most of the things we see enter the atmosphere ARE rubble piles, full of volatiles, or are pared down spacecraft. It's not necessarily intuitive.

>>11585729
Whatever.
That's a minor engineering problem, nothing that would stop us from getting stuff down here...

>>11585689
Don't mention the war!

Went out at 9.50pm GMT to the darkest area possible to see Starlink go over.

Absolutely nothing then stopped by the police for unnecessary travel.

For fuck sake what are astronomers giving off about.

“The machine-gunners' dreams of point blank fire into serried masses of Emus were soon dissipated. The Emu command had evidently ordered guerrilla tactics, and its unwieldy army soon split up into innumerable small units that made use of the military equipment uneconomic. A crestfallen field force therefore withdrew from the combat area after about a month.“

>>11585750
Even Skylab failed against the Emu horde.
RIP.

>launch the falcon with the new crew at the end of may
>couple of days later the astronauts realize they have covid-19 and were asymptomatic the whole time
>symptoms would be exacerbated by the micro gravity environment and potentially infect everyone on the ISS
what are the chances and consequences of this happening?

>>11585913
next to none, austronauts already check deseases and undergo quarantine before even being cleared for launch.

>>11585913
chances <.0000001
consequences, probably not much. Astronauts are pretty healthy.

>>11585913
And the virus mutants the astronauts in to corona bats.
Space bats.

>>11585913
>what are the chances and consequences of this happening?
Chances are super tiny. The crew is already in quarantine. Consequences would be everyone bundling into the Dragon 2 and coming home early.

>>11585913
covid19 is looking more and more like a nothingburger. Most recent USC study says that they underestimated the infections by 28 to 55 times. A Stanford study is saying 50-80. Meanwhile reported deaths in NY due to heart attack, diabetes etc is *half* of normal. That's happening in a lot of places.

2 things are happening
-underestimation of infections
-overestimation of deaths directly due to covid and not, "dude was gonna die from a mild cold anyways"

>>11585652
>i know im working towards the common good
>Americans are so inundated with government propaganda that they actually believe this

>>11585913
>consequences

They get a mild cold and recover in a few days. We're at like 160k dead in four months, its a fucking joke. This is coming from someone who was on the collapse of civilisation train watching China in January.

>>11585964
fuck you idiot, you're just jealous because youre not part of something great. No matter what you are, if youre not a merican youre inferior.

When it comes down to it were all one great team

>>11585972
based

>>11585913
>chances
close to 0, astronauts are one of the most medically scrutinized groups of people ever, they get quarantined and screened regularly for almost every disease in existence for weeks before launch.
>consequences
Nothing, they wouldnt even make it public to avoid alarm, but it only really affects old people.

How do you feel asking such a stupid question?

>>11585972
Absolutely delusional.

We need to study micro gravitaty effect on viruses

>>11585972
>>11585982
suuure buddy, the 1% who controls all wealth in america really loves you.

I bet theyd pay for your cancer treatment if you ever got it. Or for your meals/education if you couldnt affoard it.

What?
it turns out they actually wouldnt?=
it turns out even a shithole like cuba has better education healthcare and nutritition than america?
woah!!! what a shoocker, surely thats just propaganda and not official us statistics.

but anyway, must be nice to live in america where 80% of the population need two jobs just to pay rent and have no time to enjoy life.

But they can buy retarded pointless shit like fancy iphones which will sit in the shelf and gather dust while you day dream about actually enjoying any of the shit you buy with your shitty pay, realizing every day that it wont ever get to that point, that youre actually just a modern slave and that death is the best thing that could happen.

sure
sounds like fucking paradise.

>>11585972
>two party system whose goal is to slowly shred the constitution and funnel tax money to megacorps, most of your population vehemently defends one of the two shitcunt parties
>gigantic war machine that does nothing but invade countries for Israel and sanction badthought countries
>demographic clusterfuck falling apart at the seams
>MURIKA FUCK YEA ME HAVE GUN PEW PEW PEW

2A is literally the only thing going for your country and at this point you're never going to use it. I laughed so hard when 10k armed "patriots" showed up to Virginia and stood around like good cattle and then the bills passed anyway.

>>11585984
why are you so hostile about it?

>>11585982
more like
old americans: terran republic
new americans: new conglomerate

It has been brought to my attention that there are chinamen here RIGHT NOW who have not been reminded in the last 30 seconds that Xi Jingping is a dum fathead who looks like Winnie The Pooh.
Lets have a quick rundown on are bear and I’ll let them decide how Xi stacks up next to him, because maybe that's unfair

1. Winnie the Pooh is a fat bear that wears no pants
2. Winnie the Pooh enjoys hunny (honey) and his most famous adventure of all is the story of his retrieving hunny at great risk to himself from bees by pretending to be a raincloud and then enjoying the fruits of his labor obtained by the sweat of his brow
3. Winnie The Pooh (who looks like Xi Jingping) is not a communist
4. Winnie The Pooh has never once lost in a fight to cute little birds that he thought were threatening his power over the Hundred Acre Wood
5. Winnie The Pooh knows what he doesn't know and isn't afraid to ask for help from his frens, which he has
6. Winnie the Pooh’s pal Gopher can innovate and knows the difference between high quality steel and pig iron
7. Winnie the pooh has never massacred citizens of the Hundred Acre wood with tanks
8. Winnie the Pooh maybe has a fat head but he’s actually a very intelligent bear
9. Winnie The Pooh (who, again, looks like Xi Jingping if you put pants on him) is a beloved figure across all of the world and you can gauge a man’s character by what he thinks of Winnie

Decide for yourself.

Can you imagine looking like Winnie The Pooh? A bear that wears no pants. Now I’m a huge fan of Poohbear, but looking like him? What kind of buffoon would allow such a Winnie The Pooh nopantswearing son of a bitch to be the leader of even a local deli, let alone be his slave? I guess what I’m trying to say here is that Xi Jingping looks like Winnie The Pooh, a fat bear that wears no pants, and if I were his subject (slave) I’d kill myself.

>>11585913
>chances
Very very little considering how germ-phobic NASA is with their astronauts.

>consequences
ISS get's evac'd ASAP.

>>11586010
>if you say bad things about America you are a chink

Back to /pol/

>>11586018
>>if you say bad things about America you are a chink
Yes.

>>11586020
Cringe

>>11586007
>e and that death is the best thing that could happen.
because time is precious and knowledge is sacred, if you spew shit then youre either not trying or not capable of saying things that are worth while.

left wing liberals are all " hurr durrr be nice to everyone no matter how dumb"

im all about the correct true method which is "threaten people to slice their genitals with a rusty gillete if they say something wrong"

and guess fuckign what, with my method much less people say wrong things and thea mount of correct people doesnt decrease.

because most wrong things are said and done because of people who are just doign random stuff because theres no punishment for their action, they are not people trying to improve they are just nuisances. cockroaches to the superior master gods that me and other samrt people are

>>11586031
Ok edgelord

>>11586013
i imagine theres a button in trumps office that's right next to the "call secretary" button that says "vent iss" . also other buttons "single nuke at iran" "rig election" "decrease space budget"

>>11586031
based and retardpilled

Apart from SpaceX and Blue Origin, who do you think will be next to adapt to reusability? Russia has learned the lesson the hardest, but I don't think they have the capability to push for it. ESA has something in the works. China too, but no one outside of the country knows the details.

>>11586020
based

>>11586048
there's a 0% chance anyone actually gets there before Musk, so probably only countries the US government won't allow him to sell starships/rides to ie china

>>11586048
Calling it now

>massive cyberattacks on SpaceX headquarters
>Chinese nationals working on SpaceX called back to PRC
>a few years later, Chinese company begins to offer Starship but much cheaper because of slave labor wages
>???????????
>Profit

>>11585380
maybe if you're slow boating it but not if you're trying to get anything out of oberth or aerobraking

>>11586048
i am, screencap this

>>11586059
>>Chinese nationals working on SpaceX called back to PRC
I suspect there won't be any six months from now.

>>11586048
>ESA has something in the works
I hope you don't seriously believe that.

China will eventually have their F9 competitor, long after F9 is discontinued. It will be an anachronism. The rest won't even try.

>>11586092
>I hope you don't seriously believe that.
They have some concepts.

>>11586123
If they were fully mobilizing to make those concepts a reality you might see it happen within the better part of a decade. They are not doing that, and it wouldn't put them in a particularly relevant place at that point if they did.

>>11586048
literally everyone once its proven to work.

Like, everyone knows this is the next big thing, its a no brainer, spend 100 million dollars on each launch or have something that you can repair and reuse?

thing is, all R&D developments have a lot of uncertainty in it and jumping ahead to do it fast makes no sense when you can wait for the one whos pioneering the technology to do the hard work and then live off his effort.
Literally just knowing if its possible is a huge ass advantage.

take for example the space shuttle, the russians were able to copy it in a much much more improved way, they probably stole a lot via spies but even by just looking at photos of the shuttle while knowing it works they would have had a huge advantage

>>11586088
That would be intensely based.

>>11586144
I think you underestimate both the blinders of aerospace and the ability to catch up with the lead they've allowed to let slip. In order to compete at this point, they would need to be willing to gut their programs and restaff them. That's how drastic the change in approach needs to be.

>>11586123
RETALT a cute.

>>11586048
Rocketlab is also making a recoverable rocket, though their rocket is much smaller in scale obviously

>>11586144
You don’t suddenly make new useful engines because you want them, that’s a 5 year long development time or more
You don’t suddenly have a high production rate for that engine, or a new rocket design which allows practical reuse

Look at something like the shuttle, old space sits there launching the same expensive vehicle 100 times without any improvements

>>11586256
The Shuttle isn't a fair comparison. NASA was motivated to never improve on the vehicle in any meaningful way.

>>11586247
This is the space I expect to see new entries come to relevance out of. Agile approach, lack of entrenched competition, lower barrier to entry. Smallsats and smallsat launch is at least where the major supporting actors of space infrastructure will get their start.

>>11586256
>>11586160
im not saying the will do it right away, but for any country that CAN have space programs this is the logical next choice, in any case spaceflight is always part jobs program part science program part military program, they are expecting to basically throw the money away so theyll do it in that direction and in about 10 years everyone and their mother will have their own reusable rocket

>>11586276
Small sats are a fucking meme and there is no real market for them
All these companies need like 20launches a year to not go bankrupt
Which won’t exist

>>11586276
>>11586247
>>11586159
is there any shitty self help book but thats actually useful if youre not a gullible idiot about how to organize your life in as imilar way that brought spacex their huge success, i want my time to be 10000% efficient

>>11586290
>but for any country that CAN have space programs this is the logical next choice
Of course it is. It was obvious that reusable vehicles were the correct choice since before the euros or chinese even had space programs. Now that everyone's sat with their thumbs up their asses long enough to be left in the dust, what are they going to do? Make payloads, lol.

>>11586063
If you mainly want to slightly change your orbit around earth, the Oberth-effect isn't that significant and the additional mass of larger engines as well as a stronger structure not realy worth it anyway.
Especialy when talking about "harvesting" probes with ion thrusters collecting satellites from graveyard orbits or moving around a larger station.

>>11585913
>Muh flu gonna kill every1

>>11586088
Chinese nationals don’t work at SpaceX. It’s literally illegal.

>>11586340
So the whole company is ITAR controlled?

>>11586347
Yes. Non-Americans can't work for American space companies nor agencies.

>>11586296
Being successful on that kind of scale is not something you can just be really disciplined and do. It takes a combination of luck, connections, and the ability to recognize when an industry is failing to address untapped potential due to poor fundamentals.

>>11584378
Bump

>>11586347
Yep. Non-Americans can’t be employed in American rocket tech, period.

>>11586340
>>11586347
>>11586352
I didn't know that.

That is unusually based and redpilled, although I'm sure the Chinese are trying to get spy rings inside the company.

>>11586363
Considering how anti-China the space management part of the US government is (not just NASA), that would be extremely difficult.

>>11586352
That's excellent to hear. No wonder Blue Origin is sucking fat choads, Jeff can't hire a swarm of poos and chinks like he does at Amazon.

what are the chances at this point of commercial flight to orbit, and to step on the Moon as a normal pleb? Like in 30 years is going to the Moon likely to be anything less than billions of dollars?

>>11586363
NASA was working with the Soviets on joint ventures in the 70s, but we won't let the chinks board the ISS. Think about that any time some loathsome insect tries to convince you China is capable, trustworthy, etc. in anything at all other than being garbage.

>>11586376
it'll be millions. But, the future will be one where money isn't a thing and population control has lead us to a post-capitalist society.

>>11586363
Honestly, even imagine that were true. What would you expect it to do? SpaceX's most important advantages are public. Anyone can copy their approach to organization, manufacture, rapid prototyping, etc. If they copied the tech - and they haven't, or they'd be doing landings and testing full flow methalox right now - they wouldn't even be halfway there.

>>11586384
millions is no big deal desu, easily worth it

>>11586384
Population control is never happening, fascist.

>Russia, China and even the US(ULA) crumble in fear on the presence of ONE man.

>>11586403
China will always launch their payloads in house so they don’t care

>>11586408
And by in house I mean catastrophic first stage failures landing the entire rocket on some poor bastard's house.

>>11586400
Don't need to control the population when you use your media to mindfuck them into not reproducing you stupid libtard.

>>11586411
Not the party’s fault that he put his house there

>>11586403
I loved Russia's freakout over how cheap SpaceX launches are when earlier they dismissed reusability.

>>11586415
>Don't need to control the population when you use your media to mindfuck them into not reproducing

That doesn’t work past two generations, because the people who don’t reproduce will die as disgusting old childless failures and the people who did reproduce will continue on, as well as their genes which predispose them to virility.

The only excuse for not reproducing is dying in glorious battle before you take a wife.

Why are all the driving distances for rovers so pathetic?

Imagine having a solar powered rover that actually worked, so you could cover hundreds or thousands of miles in a single mission.

What's the bottleneck? Tiny wheels getting stuck? Is solar power just too weak?

>>11584072
>the foam is going to have to withstand an impact force of 7.6e11 newtons
No it won't dummy. The slug is coming in at the same entry angle as any other return capsule, and simply slows down for ten minutes in the upper atmosphere until it slows down enough that it ends up falling vertically down. We don't give a shit what happens to the foam or even the sphere really once it's past the shock-heating phase of entry, the foam is only there to serve two purposes; Increase the drag forces acting on the platinum sphere, and eliminate the effects of hot plasma impinging on the platinum. You don't want your pay dirt to be vaporizing for ten minutes before landing.

>>11586408
>The year is 203X and Starship 18m variant codename "Gigachad" is sending millions of tons into orbit every month
>China is confident they will put a man on the moon within the decade

>>11586428
>Why are all the driving distances for rovers so pathetic?

A few reasons; mostly that power supply is limited, that the rover, very importantly, can’t be repaired, and it has to be remote-controlled to some degree, while also being light minutes away.
If you scooted a rover around at 20mph, it could flip over and get broken, and then what? It’s completely fucked.

>>11584174
Don't be a doomer.

My position on JWST is thus; If it works, great, we get some new pictures. If it fails, great, we get some keks. Unfolding origami space telescopes are about to become obsolete anyway, because launch costs are about to drop by two orders of magnitude or more.

>>11586428
Solar sucks, batteries suck, Mars orbit is right on the edge of solar being viable as a power source at ALL, and rovers aren't very good at cleaning themselves to keep dust off their panels in Mars's monstrous sandstorms.

>>11586428
>What's the bottleneck?
mass. autistic mass budgets mean small batteries, small panels, small motors, and tinfoil wheels. any one of these things would castrate range, all together makes for a farce

>>11586440
>>11586444
>>11586445
What is the solution, and why is it nuclear power?

>>11586448
The solution is humans because rovers are stupid.
They already did nuclear.

>>11586454
I want to see Mars buggies with rocket engines jumping over Mariner Valley Evel Kenievel style.

>>11586454
Humans are bitches though.

They want air, food, toilets, and they go insane if you leave them alone sealed in a cargo bay for 14 months.

With Starship launch prices, you could put a rover on every body on the solar system that you can land one on. It'll be a while before you see a manned Pluto mission.

>>11586059
>Starship but much cheaper
Extreme doubt. Starship is already being hyper-optimized for low cost.

>>11586448
More power doesn’t solve the problem, because the surface of every body in the solar system is a hazardous environment and we can’t control rovers instantaneously. It’s safer to inch them around.

>>11586468
Rovers suck. Robots suck. Probes suck.
Humans are better.

>>11586474
It'll be cheaper with hypergolic engines.

>>11586428
It has nothing to do with speed. It has everything to do with autistically stopping every 4 centimeters to take up close photos of any slightly anomalous rock. The Mars rovers are incredibly slow because they're like old women walking through the produce section trying to find the perfect bag of onions.

>>11586477
No, it wouldn't.

>>11586475
What if you used legged Boston Dynamics looking rovers and waypoint navigation?

>>11585134
FIBER
REINFORCED
ROCK
FOAM
you know, what I originally had the platinum sphere wrapped in? It's basically a higher density form of aerogel, easier to make and more robust against aerodynamic loads.

>>11586482
And at the end of the mission they’ve done all sorts of “science” but it’s all totally pointless
Do people know where iron deposits or ice is? Nope

>>11586496
Can't you use satellites for that?

>>11586501
No you have to drill deep holes

>>11586477
The only advantage of hypergolics is theat the engines are simple, which is appealing if you have garbage technical ability. Problem is Raptor is slated to cost sub-1m to sub-300k and be fed with fuel made out of water, air, and sunshine.

>>11586428
How good of a rover would the Cybertruck be? According to Elon it could generate 15 miles (24 km) per day, with 30-40 miles (48-64 km) possible with fold out wings. Of course Mars gets less sunlight so the effect would be less, but at ~50% sunlight that just means 25-30km a day with the wings. Maybe 15-20km if you want extra energy to spare for other tasks like ground sensors to look for water etc. If you stuck more solar panels to the unnecessary front windshield (since no driver), the range would probably be even better. Given a max weight of 5 tons per truck, 20 could fit in one Starship assuming no volume problems, though if volume is an issue the trucks can also be made heavier with more shit like batteries or solar panels. For reference, Mars radius is around 3400 km, which at an average speed of 19 km/day a Cybertruck could drive completely around in around half a year.

If Starship is in some way ready for a Mars transit in 2022, I can see him sending one or five to Mars to show off, in addition to setting up some form of martian Starlink for future missions.

>>11586501
You can at least get an approximation, that's what SpaceX's prospective Mars landing sites are based on.

>>11586511
Everything about earth cars is totally wrong for Mars, rubber wheels will become brittle as fuck, all sorts of joints and moving parts are not designed to have seals to keep out fines, battery needs to be heavily insulated, vehicle is heavy as fuck, cutting range massively for no benefit, etc...

They will want a custom designed vehicle, good thing he owns fifty percent shares in the world's biggest electric vehicle company.

>>11586526
>battery needs to be heavily insulated
Does it? You're not going to be too worried about convection in Mars' tenuous atmosphere.

>>11586488
Sure, you can do that eventually, but their navigation and maneuvering isn't mature enough yet to entrust with a multi-billion dollar mission that has a dozen fragile scientific instruments. Spot still falls over sometimes.

Even if that tech was ready today, it would be years before it saw use in a mission, because probes and rovers lag behind the state of the art due to reliability being a top priority. As launch costs drop and the culture within NASA shifts due to outside influence, we may see a shrinking of the gap between available tech and deployed tech.

>>11586526
Well obviously he can't use off-the-shelf Cybertrucks, but I wouldn't be surpised if half the engineering going into that truck is meant for Mars anyway. A lot of the off-road capability that he's mentioning for the CT would probably fit in pretty well with a Mars mission. Stick some custom-made tires that distribute the weight better and are suited for Mars, do some other minimal adjustments and it'd be pretty much set.

If launching a load of test Cybertrucks with Starship is too much for Elon and his teams, the prospects of setting up a Mars city aren't too good.

>>11586477
Impossible to make a starship analogue with hypergolics. They have dogshit ISP

>>11586538
If you were tasked with building a terrarium to contain a full mini ecosystem for research purposes, how would you go about doing it?
decomposing the dead matter in a separate Hydrothermal liquifier/biodigester and putting the solid remains as fertilizer might help alleviate the problem that biosphere 2 had with the decomposers eating the oxygen and overrunning the place
Double pane Lead glass should help with radiation coming through the window

>>11584035
>Physics is done and done on the matter on it.
how can you say this with a straight face when they've been fucking around with string theory for the past forty years

>>11586488
Fuck useless rovers send people

>>11586555
wrong, hypergolics are very dense so it might come out only slightly worse

>>11586559
String theory is a dead end. It can’t be tested, so they should completely abandon it and go back to the drawing board at relativity, or go back even further to Newtonian gravity

>>11586561
I'd worry more about any potential leak causing the thing to detonate like a petite atomic bomb, probably requiring the entire facility to be rigorously scrubbed down for weeks afterwards to get all of the extremely poisonous material off.

>>11586566
thats my point

>>11586569
it'll be fine

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840002088.pdf
No wonder Shuttle was expensive.

>>11586559
Because classical physics is so well tested that it's fucking boring which is why they turn to esoterics in the first place?

>>11586569
In China? They'll hose it down with CO2 and call it done.

>>11586576
Just shuttle problems I guess
Why use 6x6 tiles if the gaps are an issue?
Why are there gaps at all?

>>11586558
Biosphere two was a joke.

>>11586577
Classical physics are also plainly wrong.

>>11586614
Nope.

>>11586611
Well how would you redesign it so it would work on Mars?

>>11586619
Make it fifty times bigger, for one. The bigger your ecosystem, the less chance you have of a minor failure cascading.

>>11586619
You wouldn't because the premise doesn't actually properly mesh with the environment. It would be like trecking deep into an unexplored desert and deciding you also want to limit your food and water sources beyond the existing limitations of your environment, just for shits and giggles.

>>11586608
>why are there gaps
Thermal expansion allowance. Shuttle couldn't have gaps because the aluminum skin couldn't take the heat. Starship can have gaps because steel doesn't care.

>>11586617
Orbital precession of Mercury.

>>11586619
Use electricity and Mars' atmosphere to generate unlimited oxygen, Mars permafrost for unlimited water, etc. Reuse everything once you've brought it inside, sure, but don't pretend you're living in a bottle in interplanetary space.

>>11586635
This scenario implies a fully functioning city is in operation and this is an expansion for research purposes

>watching stargate SG-1
>"even on our fastest sub-light engines it would take 8 MONTHS to get home"
man, it's crazy how far away stars are in real life. I wonder if most people have simply no conceptualization of the distance.

>>11586648
Oh I see the issue, I was using 'classical physics' informally. I did mean general relativity, but actually invoking the name is like chum to cranks here.

>>11586657
>I wonder if most people have simply no conceptualization of the distance.
They don't. It's something so mind bogglingly huge and outside of daily existence you have to go out of your way to try to understand it, and most people don't care.

>>11586662
General relativity is wrong, because it predicts singularities when quantum mechanics show plainly that singularities aren’t possible, and quantum field theory is very, very wrong because of the vacuum catastrophe. All that shit is broken and should have been replaced decades ago.

>>11586657
> man, it's crazy how far away stars are in real life

Doesn’t seem too far to me. Alpha Centauri A and B are separated by roughly the distance Neptune orbits the sun, and there’s an image of A and B over and behind Saturn’s rings where they’re noticeably separated, which provides a mentally useful scale reference.

>>11586677
see, this is what I mean

>>11586688
imagine if we lived in the Centauri system instead... people would be WAY more into space exploration

>>11586711
It’s not like relativity is “bad”. Neither is Newtonian gravity, but it’s an incomplete explanation not compatible with all observations.
A problem in the context of formulating physical theories is that new physical hypothesis are often based to some degree on the assumptions of earlier theories. It’s possible for a model to make the same predictions as another model, but the model that is proposed first will invariably be the one accepted and used. Why not explore alternative models and formulate new hypothesis based on their assumptions? We may have dug ourself into a hole.

>>11586723
Weird ass seasons too

>>11586753
>Why not explore alternative models and formulate new hypothesis based on their assumptions?
Because its easier to just invent new types of unobservable stuff rather than introduce a radical new theory that is then crushed by a new observation and makes whoever proposed it look like a quack. See: dark matter, dark energy, vacuum foam, String theory, etc.

>>11586770
It may be “easier”, but it’s an unproductive dead end.

>>11586770
Observing the effects of something is observing it. This is what people don't understand about dark energy and dark matter. Coming up with new physics doesn't change the fact that 'dark matter' is a based on observations which you have to account for. This is very different from string theory which is pure wankery which no one has to account for because no one has ever observed any component of it or ever will.

>>11586805
>My theory of gravity and expansion is correct according to these terrestrial observations
Then why do the observations of celestial formations not work in your theory?
>because there is actually an invisible form of matter and an entirely separate non-fundamental force that makes it work.
Do you have any evidence for this matter or force?
>no, but it must exist or else I'm wrong. Since I am not wrong, it exists.

This is the same bullshit that made physicists believe that there space was filled with ether.

>>11586805
>Observing the effects of something is observing it.

You don’t per se know that any observed phenomenon is actually the “effect” of what you suppose it is. That’s an unnecessary reification.

>>11586817
>Do you have any evidence for this matter or force?
It's funny how all you cranks feel the need to invole new physics to explain these things yet at the same time are constantly at a loss as to what they actually are.

>>11583886
150t*

>>11586657
And the you look at that hubble picture of andromeda, with its hundreds of millions of suns on it and you realize. We couldn‘t even travel from one of those dots to the very next one not even a millimeter away on the image even zoomed all the way in.

>>11586533
If you insulate it less, you need to heat it more.
Even if it was purely heat radiated away, that would allready be more than the solar cells can produce.
Mars is realy cold most of the time and the electronics require to be at a certain temperature or they fail.
That's also why Spirit and Opportunity had radioactive heating elements and a good insulation.

>>11586611
>Biosphere two was a joke.
That's why they made a Pauly Shore movie out of it.

>>11586719