/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11574546
Boing BTFO

Awaiting road closures

im happy for spacex that they'll be the ones in the history books for returning American astronauts to space. they deserve it for pushing the envelope like they do.

Soyuz irrevocably BTFO

I think we all know what's next after Starship.

>>11574701
Anime is degenerate cringe. It should be illegal

>>11574703
anime weebsite

Daily reminder that the existence of this graphic triggers spacexfags
>"b-b-but Starship can get eleventy gorrillion to TLI if you refuel it 290 times!1!"

>>11574712
OK, now do kg/$ to TLI.

>>11574712
>posting the cropped version

>>11574712
>Block 2

>>11574717
>150t Starship
Is that expendable? I thought reusable was 100t to orbit.

>>11574712
See? >>11574717

>>11574723
This is TLI, not LEO. Single launch Starship has such a pisspoor mass fraction it doesn't even HAVE a payload to TLI. They have to artificially inflate the numbers with a gorrillion refueling flights to make it look better, while not making that same assumption for anything else.

>>11574731
>source: dude trust me

>>11574731
>not making the same assumption for everything else
SLS don't refuel anon, that's rocket sodomy and SLS a good Christian rocket.
>>11574724
>and yet it is the SLSfags who are triggered

>>11574712
No one is triggered stop trying to start childish fights lol

>>11574716

>>11574697
I think people will be eager to forget that time the world's largest economy and pioneering nation of space couldn't launch astronauts for a decade. "hey remember when things turned back to normal" isn't a milestone.

I wonder if people in general even knew. Consider history in terms of the public consciousness. A lot of people could answer what year we landed on the moon. People know the set backs, they can easily recall disasters like apollo 13, challenger, and columbia. But if you asked when was the last time nasa sent astronauts in the space, you'd probably get "I don't know, yesterday?".

I really wish donald trump brought up space in his maga campaign. Paying russia increasing prices to launch astronauts its the ultimate humiliation, not even drunks in trailer parks would stand for it.

>>11574736
Source: Starship User's Guide:
Payload to TLI (w/o Refueling): N/A
You can read it in all its 6 page (kek) glory, here:
https://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/starship_users_guide_v1.pdf

>>11574742
Bullshit! Yes it is about the money, because the single largest barrier in space flight is the cost to get to space.

>>11574756
No. There is no business case for space even if LVs are free.

>>11574748
>I really wish donald trump brought up space in his maga campaign.
He did. He talks constantly about going back to the moon and Mars and mentioned space in his inaugural address. You just don't know that because you filter your experience of him through CNN's salty butthole.

Other things he's done:
>created the US Space Force
>restored the National Space Council and put the VP (Pence) in charge
>ordered NASA to return to the moon by 2024
>removed regulations that were inhibiting SpaceX's work
>saved the US steel and aluminum industries so we have the materials to build rockets
>got the FCC to greenlight Starlink

>>11574767
I mean to be fair, like everything on that list besides Space Force was Pence's baby.

>>11574773
Wrong.

>>11574763
>"There is no business case for space"
>commercial satellites don't real
>small sats don't real
>private scientific organizations don't real
>space security don't real
>spy sats don't real
>NASA don't real
>beamed power don't real

>>11574774
Right.
The only profit in space is in relation to Earth. Think telecoms and navigation.
The surface of Mars could be liquid gold and you'd still lose money trying to extract it.

>>11574778
It would be difficult for this post to be more wrong. Go back to leftypol.

>>11574777
>beamed power don't real
why would you put something that actually doesn't exist on your attempt at a mocking list?

>>11574780
Because it's a real possibility that has merit.

>>11574779
Aw, does the truth hurt your feewings?

>>11574782
it's a "real possibility" the same way a space elevator or launch loop is

>>11574778
I actually responded to the wrong post here. whoops

>>11574792
You're still wrong.

>>11574778
>he still uses oldspace launch costs

fucking cringe my dude

>>11574778
>The surface of Mars could be liquid gold and you'd still lose money trying to extract it.

That’s not true.

>>11574767
I mean the russian launch situation specifically though

Space is always a brief meme in elections. I don't care about headlines of newt gingrich dropping moon base aspirations. I mean really put a brutally honest microscope on how shit we became. I heard a lot of stuff from trump about trade deficits, developing nations securing better international agreements, crumbling infrastructure etc, but that's not as visually striking as american astronauts traveling to russia and launching on 60s rocket design and paying them for it. Everyone should know we're being robbed and nasa takes coats at the vault.

Apollo 13 is home!

just imagine the smell of being stacked inside. The warm wet walls closing around you and being inside forever

>>11574712
>Vulcan is so tiny, yet so powerful.
Explain this please

>>11574820
It's a big fat central core with four boosters.

>11574818
Vorefags go home >>>/d/

>>11574817
https://youtu.be/k35hgjWicAU?t=249

>>11574703
t. faggot

Does this mean 18 years from now?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1251207515703894016?s=20

>>11574850
SpaceX was founded in 2002. They're talking about DM-2 on May 27th.

>>11574546
rip for the first astronauts

Reminder that appraisals and history of abort systems on launch vehicles is flawed logic for starship

starship needs an abort system because it lands. Imagine having a malfunction in space and knowing you're doomed. Imagine an engine cutting out. Imagine the vehicle barely missing the landing and tipping over.

You can even abort dangerous landings, and the vehicle could stick the landing anyway.

>>11574703
t. based /sci/ poster

>>11574857
a 747 needs an abort system because it lands. Imagine having a malfunction in the air and knowing you're doomed. Imagine an engine cutting out. Imagine the vehicle barely missing the landing strip and barreling into the surrounding woods.

>>11574857
Don't be discouraged by footage of drove vehicles failing to land on ship on rolling waves.

>>11574861
>Where you see the term “hull loss,” that refers to accidents involving damage to the aircraft that is beyond economical repair. So, from 1959 through 2015:

>1,525 passenger jet airliner accidents

Yeah, I would have wanted an abort system in the days when you bought life insurance at a vending machine before your flight.

One issue with passenger plane parachutes was you had to capture the whole body of the plane, usually at an airspeed too high or an altitude too low to matter

But starship can shoot up a crew pod. Parachutes are completely viable.

>>11574857
>engine out during the bellyflop
RIP 100 people

>>11574853
Ah cool thanks

>>11574861
The wings are the abort system. A 747 can safely land with loss of all engines.

>>11574894
>A 747 can safely land
[Max 8 has entered the match]

>>11574877
Is the fat dildo with baby spider legs situation that much better?

Not being flippant, I just want to know how that works.

>>11574898
He said loss of all engines

A max can't lose all engines because it stalls on takeoff before anything could possibly happen

>>11574703

>>11574903
is it reasonable for starship to lose all engines as well though? It has engine-out capability so there is already a margin of safety there. It's not like it's going to encounter birdshot or anything

>>11574703
go home newfag

>>11574923
Average snaggle-toothed “”female”” anime watcher pictured. Obesity and zits not included

>>11574916
Maybe not, but you need acquaint yourself with the ideas of this book which is heavily cited in the field of accident investigation. Or just watch plane crash documentaries on youtube like I do until you understand the insane diversity of unpredictable problems that cause disasters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_Accidents

Accidents are about complex systems failing in unexpected ways, and often things designed to make a system safer make it more complex, which might wrap around as an argument against abort systems, but whatever. It's probably better that elon is a minimalist engineer. But the landing system itself is so complex because the computer is winging it against all these variables which are different for every landing.

>>11574712
>poo glenn

>>11574950
>India

Looks like spaceship is getting different wings?

>>11574546
here's whats going to happen you nigs:

-oh, mr (vital part of the mision) died from covid.
-Dont worry im sure its fine, go ahead and launch
*rocket explodes*
-told you spacex would screw up!!!!


why are you guys so eager, wait a couple of months you shit

>>11574993
Another change.

>>11574995
Nobody vital for SpaceX has died

>>11574995
Okay Boeing.

>>11574820
Methalox and solids

>>11574820
I'm pretty sure the drawing is out of scale. Vulcan is a 5.2 meter vehicle. Falcon 9 is 3.6 meters.

>>11575044
it's actually appropriately sized for Starship if Starship's goal was completely owning the current launch market instead of owning the current launch market as a side effect of mars colonization

>>11574993
>mass reduction and simplicity
And here we go, internal strutting and/or thicker material just about confirmed.

>>11574818
>dat model S floor pan
I find it hilarious they still aren't even repackaging the battery modules. I mean, if it works it works, it's just a beautiful bit of Elon's Musk's Junkyard & Starship Parts in action.

>>11575052
I don't mean the vehicle's physical sizes, just that the picture is wrong.

>>11575074
yes, and I am very tired and going off on a tangent

>>11574995
Look guy, just because SpaceX vehicles may explode due to pushing engineering boundaries, but at least they don't fly themselves into the ground or end up with literal fucking hand tools left in fuel tanks.

>>11575071

https://twitter.com/spaceflightnow/status/1251194284558213122?s=21
brehs.......they cant fuck this one up

>>11575135
Should be fairly routine as long as they don't let the dude at Boca Chica responsible for doing tank tests run the show.

Manned landing on Pluto WHEN

>>11575071
Nice catch. I spent a minute looking at that image and didn't even notice it.

>>11575185
Well, it took New Horizons 9 years with a Jupiter gravity assist for a flyby, so not anytime soon.

>>11575185
>>11575216
We'd need fusion torch ships to get there in any reasonable amount of time.

>>11575233
What we need are Orion drives. Utilize fusion (or fission) in a way that we have already harnessed, don't bother waiting for a breakthrough.

>>11574889
Starship can land on a single Raptor at close to full throttle, it is designed to fire up three during the backflip so that even if 2/3 fail the thing still lands.

>>11575233
Then we're going to run into another issue, namely G forces for sustained burns.
Now of course, there have been theorized perfluorocarbon suits, but they're theoretical at best since that shit is hard to get pumping around.

>>11575057
How the hell did you get 'we're adding mass' out of 'we're removing mass'?

>>11575250
>muh G forces
Sustained 1G acceleration will get you going faster than you can feed your engine, no matter what it's fueled on.

>>11575258
If they're slimming down something, that means they've added it elsewhere.

>>11574820
It isn't that tiny. Whoever made this graphic is a retard.

>>11575264
Possible but unlikely. Starship in its current iteration is overweight, they will be trimming it as they go as much as possible.

>>11575250
>Then we're going to run into another issue, namely G forces for sustained burns.
Even 2g for sustained burns gets you to 0.2c in about a month. That's plenty for in-system travel. You only need special tech for sustained fuck-you burns at 2.5+g.

>>11575269
At this stage? You better fucking believe it. If this was the polishing stage, then it was another matter.
They've gone well over the mass budget due to having to strengthen shit up and now they have to slim shit down elsewhere.

>>11575271
A "torch ship" getting you to Pluto in a hurry kind of implies "fuck you G's", but whatever.

>>11575277
You severely underestimate what pulling significant (any substantial fraction of a G) G's for a sustained period entails.

>>11575285
You're pulling 1g right now.

reminder that water towers don't fly into space

>>11575135
>>11575184

We should start some kind of betting pool on this.

>>11575299
The implexloding pool?
Gonna be a lot of arguing whether it imploded or exploding though.

>>11575277
Nah, if you flip and burn you can reach Pluto at a 15 day burn, say add a week for things like inspection of the vital parts of the ship, fueling it, getting everybody aboard and settled in, and moving away from habitats and inhabited planets to safely use your torch drive.

>>11575292
I don't mean effect on the human body, I mean pulling 1G or anything close to it for a long time gets 'fuck you' fast very quickly. There aren't many even theoretical drives that have both the thrust and ISP to pull off 1+G and long burn times at the same time.

>>11575185
50 years max

>>11575216
>>11575233
>>11575244
You don't need fusion and you don't need Orion, you need mini-mag Orion. It uses nuclear fission fuel pellets and crushed them with powerful electromagnetic fields to initiate a fission chain reaction, basically a tiny externally-powered nuclear bomb. The engine 'burns' thousands of these pellets per hour of operation, and achieves ~100,000 Isp with a thrust to weight ratio several orders of magnitude higher than an ion drive or other electric thruster. With a mass ratio of 1/3rd fuel, the vehicle would achieve a total delta V of about 400,000 m/s. That would allow for a several month continuous-thrust transfer to Pluto, and the same trip time back to Earth. If the vehicle were 2/3rds mini-mag nuclear propulsion module and 1/3rd crewed lander vehicle, a 200 ton lander would require a 400 ton propulsion section and mass a total of 600 tons in Earth orbit before departure.

>>11575250
Sustained burns always happen at low g, for example the mini-mag propulsion section described above would only accelerate at centimeters per second per second. If we had magic propulsion technology and could pull ten g's for an entire interplanetary transfer, then why wouldn't we use the same propulsion system to push ten times the mass and only need to deal with a comfortable 1 g acceleration for the entire trip? We wouldn't even need spin gravity or anything in that case. There is literally no reason to have >1 g continuous propulsion vehicles, because everywhere in the solar system is only a few days away by 1 g constant acceleration flight, and everywhere outside of the solar system is years away even with 1000 g continuous acceleration, so there's no benefit to pushing harder.

>>11575233
I don’t think ten years is unreasonable.

>>11575314
The way I picture it working is that you build an Orion drive on Mars because

A: Escaping from the gravity well/atmosphere will be way easier, which is good because this thing will be fuckhuge

B: You can pollute the environment a lot more without people caring

You cap out at like .15c but that's enough to get you most places.

>>11575343
also Mars doesn't have a magnetic shield to interact unfavorably with detonating large nuclear bombs in space

>>11575343
You build the orion drive in orbit around mars, why bother with a risky takeoff.

>>11575353
nuke Mars

>>11575353
This. Landing or launching with an orion drive is unnecessary excess at best, design it purely for orbital flight and save some structural mass in the process.

>>11575343
Psh, envirofags will always ree even if there's nothing there living to nuke. Their hatred of human beings and human welfare is such that it's irrelevant whether what humans do harms other creatures or another biosphere or not, they'll advocate against it otherwise. I have to assume the only reason they don't kill themselves in self-loathing is because there'd be nobody left to bitch and moan about the environment if they did.

>>11575363
Stop mars pollution!!
Humans are contaminating mars, local bacteria cant survive.
Mars should be made a reserve for at least two billions years to see if the local lifeforms could evolve in to intelligent life forms.

Also, would you sign my pro abortion petition?

>>11575376
Environmentalism is the atheist version of misanthropic religious death cults
“I decided to get a vasectomy because global warming”

>>11575374
Launching from Earth is literally the most valuable part of an Orion drive
The difficulty of orbital construction to Earth construction is massive

>>11575403
>Launching from Earth is literally the most valuable part of an Orion drive
Maybe when it was designed. Let's say the first Orion drive is developed +30yrs from now, I'd rather just hop on Starship's great great grandson with a proven launch/return track record and utilize the God drive for God drive shit like burning straight to anywhere in the solar system.

>>11575264
Why? They are targeting ~150 tons to LEO for the final design, and they think the current one will do >100 tons. The only way to get from ~100 to ~150 is to lose mass or increase engine Isp, and they are currently not focusing on increasing Isp.

>>11575416
Our gravity well is a fucking bitch.

>>11575322
>50 years max
By that time AI will be so advanced that the very concept of sending humans to Pluto will look like ridiculous.

>>11575415
you really don't want to be using uncontained nuclear pulse propulsion in low Earth orbit

>>11575420
Earth is our mom and gravity is her smothering embrace.
And if humanity doesn't go out to the stars we will turn in to the neet who dies in his parents house.

>>11575403
If you consider an expendable launch vehicle, sure. In reality the most valuable feature of Orion is its high thrust and high specific impulse, greater than 50,000 seconds. For reference that's ten times more efficient than a mid level ion drive at several billion times the thrust for only a few tens of thousands of times the mass. Using Orion drive as a launch vehicle only makes sense for worlds with much higher delta V requirements than Earth. For example if you found yourself hovering in Jupiter's upper cloud layers, an Orion drive vehicle would not only let you launch yourself back into orbit, you'd have enough juice to probably get to any other planet in the solar system and insert into orbit.
The thing about any Orion drive is that it differs from chemical vehicles significantly in an economic sense; Orion costs a lot to fuel, but not so much to build. Nukes are expensive, even if you can mass produce them with no red tape. Meanwhile, expendable chemical rockets are expensive to build, but cheap to fuel. Without reusable chemical launch vehicles, an Orion drive makes economic sense for launch because it costs way less per kilogram than a similarly sized expendable chemical vehicle would, plus it can go farther. However, once reusable TSTO becomes a thing, you suddenly have an expensive vehicle that is cheap to fly over and over again because fuel is cheap, whereas Orion remains expensive, and obviously can never come back to Earth for reuse as a launch vehicle.
Big Orion drive type vehicles only really make sense for truly massive spacecraft heading off on relatively slow trajectories to other Stars. We can get similar performance and useful thrust to weight ratio out of a scaled down version that uses magnets to crush fuel pellets, though it probably couldn't be used to launch to orbit from Earth, rather it'd be used for quick scoots out to the outer planets and back, or for high mass capacity tug vehicles. The efficiency is what we need anyway.

>>11575423
I think we agree. I'm saying use a chemical rocket for orbital rendezvous to load/unload from the Orion. No real reason you can't do that decently outside LEO.

>>11575422
Any research into AI should be shut down and the programmers hanged for their crimes, super AI apocalypse is the most destructive possible event in the universe

>>11575422
>By that time AI will be so advanced that the very concept of sending humans to Pluto will look like ridiculous.

Eliminate the distinction between AI and humans.

>>11575445
>Muh sci-fi terminator movies omg

Underage

>>11575446

>>11575451
>creating something that is smarter than you, can replace you easily, and has no ties to you.
What can go wrong.

Let's hope that the first AI gets empathy as one of its cornerstones.

>>11575446
The physiological distinction will remain, and robots don't need life support.
The can even hybernate easily.

>>11575458
it just needs to be put in charge of specific tasks that won't be helped by eliminating humanity

Did some calculations, to sustain 1g during one day (which gets you a delta-V of 864km/s) :
- If you expel reaction mass at 1000km/s your initial mass needs to be ~2.4 times your final mass
- If you expel reaction mass at 10 000km/s (0.033c) your initial mass needs to be ~1.1 times your final mass
Of course, our best ion drives have an exhaust velocity of ~50km/s, and the energy requirements for exhaust velocity in the thousands of km/s are quite ridiculous.

>>11575471
Ion drives are for chumps. Z-pinch fusion pls.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist3.php#fszpinch

>>11575466
Military from all over the world will be all over AI.
The us military is throwing shitloads of money at it, the chinese even more.

And what cruel fuck would make a conscience with the sole purpose of serving somebody else and make it so it can never escape.

>>11575458
>Assuming strong AI is smarter than humans for no real reason
>Assuming strong AI can replace humans (at what???)
>Assuming strong AI would perceive itself as having no “ties” to its literal creators.

You watch too many movies.

>>11575466
That's how you get the 'innocuous' machine that converts the local group into paperclips. Trying to come up with clever rules is a broken concept because there's always a cleverer workaround.

>>11575466
>Dude lets do slavery

How about no. Treat machine minds exactly the same as anyone else.

>>11575459
>The physiological distinction will remain

Keep saying that after I replace half my body with steel and plug my brain into HentaiFoundry

>>11575478
>>11575477
>slavery bad
I see you aren't in the workforce

>>11575481
>Comparing jobs to slavery

Yikes.

shut the fuck up, kids
it's time

>>11575486
BASED

>>11575486
Thank you based Moonman.

>>11575481
My point wasn't slavery bad, it was 'trying to contain an entity of arbitrary intelligence with simple rules bad'. It creates a scenario where you're in an arms race with your own creation with an inevitable breakover point.

>>11575498
Just leave it alone so it doesn’t develop enmity

>>11575486
>BOOOOOOOM

>>11575492
put a fucking hardhat on, Elon

>>11575486
Pop or not pop?

>>11575509
>Thank God I had my hardhat on when a 100 ton object fell on me.
No, peasant, I will not.

>>11575520
it's not even about that, it's about bonking your head on the fucking lip of the thing or some moron dropping a wrench

>>11575515
I'm taking the "where's the big kaboom?" underdog option. SN3 fell to user error, SN4 will survive.

>>11574820
Its a Boeing chart.

>>11575509
His lack of hardhats triggers me. You don't need to wear a retard cowboy hat like Tony does, but at least wear fucking something.

>>11575541
same
they're not even uncomfortable

>>11575524
>A randomly falling wrench on the pad of a landed Falcon 9.
>>11575541
t. a virgin hardhat wearer versus the hard headed chad Elon Musk

>>11575554
He refuses to wear them period. You can see him wandering around active construction sites at Boca without one on. Considering all the nigger rigging that goes on there, you'd think he'd have at least a little sense of self-preservation.

>>11575554
if you aren't wearing a hard hat how the fuck are you supposed to keep your sunrag in place

>>11574696
They build them so fucking fast. This is going to be nuts when they actually start flying.

>>11575554
The actual pictured example isn't that bad imo, but crazy shit goes down in boca chica.
>flailing steel guillotine out of nowhere

>>11575558
>Blocks ur path
He wears them sometimes. Nearly everything on the build site is so heavy that it would be useless anything dropped on it. Perhaps he could hit his head on something while inspecting something, but that would be a relatively minor accident and he has already proven his willingness to attack things with his head like a real chad so I fear for the safety of the object.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-reportedly-head-butted-car-at-teslas-factory-2018-8

>>11575185
The plutonians would shoot you down for downgrading their planet

>>11575422
fuck transhumanism, no reason to explore if you're not gonna be humans

>>11575628
Why do you want to be “human” and not something more capable? You’re like an anarcho-primitivist lol

>>11575621
All the more reason to use an Orion drive to land.

>>11575353
Why not earth? Wouldn't less than a dozen random people die?

>>11575451
>mammoth: the human apocalypse is the most destructive possible event in the universe
>dodo bird: Underage

>>11575466
Even human intelligence can question and refuse tasks, and we do it really well

>>11575658
Cute comparison, but humans actually hunted mammoths whereas there’s no evidence some sort of vague strong AI would hunt humans, would have the capability or motivation, and it’s uncertain strong AI is even possible.
You’re just scared of the unknown, a common human behavior.

>>11575558
I always wondered if hard hats make some overhead work even more dangerous to you because the bill blocks your vision

>>11575669
>It's uncertain strong AI is even possible
Make any reasonable case that human level or better intelligence cannot be attained through alternate means of information processing.

>>11575669
>there’s no evidence
>You’re just scared of the unknown, a common human behavior.

not science or math
>>>/n/

>>11575712
Shut the fuck up you gigantic faggot

>>11575694
>>11575712
>he wants to change the subject now that his cover is blown

>>11575633
yeah but anarcho-primitivists won't use nukes to EMP your brain or shoot you

>>11575676
no

>>11575669
Build an AI that wants to make an optimized strategy for making paperclips, first it will go through an intelligence explosion as it rewrites its own code to make itself as smart as possible so it can come up with the best possible strategy, and the first task it would apply its maximum intelligence to would be to eliminate all of humanity in order to ensure that no other intelligences in the universe can do anything to oppose its perfect plan to build paperclips. After exterminating all life on Earth, the super AI goes on to send out an extermination fleet to every star in the observable universe, using the highest technology possible, and wipes out all life within reach, which could mean far more than our own observable universe if faster than light travel and/or inter-universal of any kind is possible. As the expanding bubble of Super AI influence passes though the cosmic superstructure, all life is exterminated and in the wake are left nothing but paperclips, with entire planets and stars and molecular clouds being harvested for raw materials. The AI converts all elements lighter than iron into iron via fusion, and all elements heavier than iron into iron via photo-disintegration powered by fusion, in order to forge that iron into paperclips. Instead of lasting a quadrillion years, the stelliferous period of the universe's evolution is cut short as all nuclear fuel sources are consumed and burned to iron ash. The only energy sources left behind are in the form of the angular momentum of black holes. Life thus has zero chance of bouncing back once consumed by the AI's machines, and even if some life managed to sneak past the wall of advancing AI machines to the space behind, they would quickly be starved of all energy supply and fade to nothing. That's assuming of course that the AI didn't also think of that possibility and ensured that a small portion of machines remained active in the wastelands of paperclips to hunt stragglers for raw materials.

>>11575633
i'm not an anarcho-primitivist, i just dont feel the reason to change my body into some weird machine thing.

>>11575802
They don't want us to change. They want us to stay fleshy and weak and easily controlled. Don't worry, they'll like you.

>>11574546
Based Americhads and Spacex. Historic flight.
I take back all the mocking of your fat and uneducated populace.

Starlink requesting orbital decrease from ~1100km to ~550Km for safety (debris management/polar orbit/lower latency)

>>11575785
Jesus Christ learn to paragraph your sci-fi fantasies.

>>11575814
fag

>>11575811
>cuts latency in half as well
BASTE

>>11575811
t h i n n

>>11575811
>FAA like typical aerospace clowns goes “wow 10 kilometers is way too close!”

>>11575806
>THE FLESH IS WEAK
okay son of Ferrus, you're misinterpreting the words of your father

>>11575768
You were only able to read my post above yours because you weren't wearing a hard hat

>>11575835
wrong, I'm wearing a hard hat right now

>>11574703
Based, weaboos btfo

>>11575811
The big change here is they went after polar orbit. Oneweb went bankrupt. So that leaves Starlink to have a good chance there.

>>11575835

>>11575669
>You’re just scared of the unknown

Its a survival trait dickhead, unfortunately your ancestors made it through the gene pool somehow.

>>11575806
Pretty sure there is nothing easier to control than some fuckwit stuffing his brain with proprietary technology.

>>11574788
Yes it is a real possibility the same way a space elevator or a launch loop is

>>11575952
Absolutely everywhere that you could feasibly build one of these pieces of shit is so easily launched off from that all of the time and manpower invested in building it put into rockets instead would launch more than the resulting megastructure ever could.

>>11575509
>>11575541
On the other hand in that pic it looks like he has a halo.

>>11575846
Either you have a bong in your reflection or a glass dildo.
Both answers will win you no respect here.

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S

>>11576136
Sn4 going pop xd

>>11576136
So moving to the stand the 20th and test on the 26th?

>>11574993
>very counterintuitive
Dare I say delightfully counterintuitive?

>>11575814
Hit character limit. Fag.

>>11575802
>i'm not an anarcho-primitivist, i just dont feel the reason to change my body into some weird machine thing.

I feel a strong desire to modify my body in whimsical fashions to improve my capabilities and explore unwitnessed modes of life. I’m primarily interested in becoming a sort of giant insect creature with big claws useful for digging, and the ability to vomit a hardening resin that could be used in construction. Since I was young, I’ve desired to live deep underground in cozy tunnels and I think such an insectoid body type would work well.

>>11575785
>Build an AI that wants to make an optimized strategy for making paperclips

But we make AIs today for specific reasons and they don’t do sci-fi bullshit lol

>>11575851
>Its a survival trait dickhead

Perhaps. I lust for the unknown, the alien, the unseen. I must bring it about and/or discover it, and ideally become it myself.

>>11576261
>But we make AIs today for specific reasons
And it's basically a thought experiment extrapolating the modern approach to AI and how it breaks down with increased intelligence and problem solving ability.
Current AI don't have this problem because they aren't intelligent. They're more like autonomic nerve systems than higher functioning brains, so highly adept at specific functions that it's an automatic process but not really 'thinking' about it.

>>11576256
I think you misunderstood Starship Troopers.

>>11576261
The AI we have today isn't strong AI, aka general AI. The best chess playing program in the world could never learn to drive a car, for example. Strong AI is an AI that learns how to learn new things. It can solve problems it has never seen before, given time. If you develop a sufficiently good strong AI and give it access to its own source code, it can learn how to build strong AI, and if you combine that with all the other knowledge and data we have on mathematics and programming, it makes sense that a strong AI would be able to produce an upgraded strong AI, which is at least marginally better. This better AI can learn all the same things the old one did, except it's smarter now, so it can make a new and even better strong AI. Repeat this a few times and you'll have something far beyond the understanding of all the human programmers and scientists of the time. Repeat a few more times and the resulting program will be beyond the comprehension of any human brain, ever. There's no reason to think that the intelligence ceiling this thing would eventually run into would only be a little smarter than a human, or even a lot smarter. This thing would likely become intelligent to the point of eclipsing the collective intelligence of every human on Earth over the entire history of our species if we were all hooked up to a seamless consciousness-sharing machine and could think as one. This thing would be able to deduce the BEST possible versions of EVERY technology simply by understanding the properties of the elements and subatomic particles. If warp drive is possible, this thing can built it. If breaking the laws of thermodynamics is possible, this thing can do it. If it wants to accelerate the evolution of the observable universe in order to get rid of all the surrounding heat sources (stars) so that it can build shells around black holes powered by hawking radiation at incredibly low temperatures because computing is more efficient that way, it will do that.

>>11576341
>Repeat this a few times and you'll have something far beyond the understanding of all the human programmers and scientists of the time. Repeat a few more times and the resulting program will be beyond the comprehension of any human brain, ever.

Sounds fun. Let’s build God.
Can’t wait for the age of the archailects

>>11576358
God is reborn when man returns to Eden. AI is much like Adam before eating from the tree of knowledge. You merge humans with AI and boom, man returns to the garden with all the knowledge he's gained outside of it and God is reincarnated.

>>11576419
what is this, evangelion?

>>11576428
Mythology is excellent conversational shorthand

>>11576085
no, it's just my messy desk

>Elon deleted his CNN bashing tweet
someone must have made the call

Reeeee AI fags leave.
It's /sfg/ not /gayig/

>>11576189
I think the usual pattern is they test 1 or 2 days after getting it on the stand. They have to set the jacks up and plug everything in.

The schedules are highly tentative and can change multiple times within hours.

>>11574993
Again? At this point I'm not even keeping tack anymore and don't expect any of the iterations to be permanent.

>>11576616
Sorry. I think the topic of space colonization very easily bleeds into general futurism

What's stopping spacex from developing NTR themselves?

>>11576428
It's actually the basic concept behind Eva's backstory in the extended media, yeah.
>Ancient ayys created Seeds of Power (Adam type) and Life (Lilith type) to spread life to other worlds.
>They were supposed to remain separate until the life so spawned reached the stars and met up with their distant cousins to compare notes and assimilate the other half's abilities
>basically the Great Filter as childproof locks on God's powers
>this goes horribly wrong when both Adam and Lilith arrive on Earth
>First Impact happens, which may or may not be the KPg strike in Eva lore
>Adam hibernates, Lilith continues being the ancestor of all Earthly life
>then the Katsuragi Expedition wakes up Adam

>>11576602
what did he say?

>>11576674
Aggressive restrictions and regulations on the use, transportation, proliferation and study of significantly enriched nuclear material. You *could* build all of a nuclear rocket except the core itself just fine, but obviously it will be useless without a fuel element. To get that you have to let the NRC spread your ass.

>>11576674
Elon is happily married.

>>11576674
Elon Musk doesn’t think they’re necessary or offer substantial benefits for current and near future uses. Methalox is good enough for Mars-Earth-Moon transit and can take advantage of easy ISRU

>>11576690
fake news network or something like that

>>11576696
He’s actually not married. Grimes is just his girlfriend

>>11576691
I think someone from SpaceX (Shotwell?) mentioned a couple of years back that they were trying to get some nuclear fuel from the government but it seemed like a long-term low-priority kind of thing.

>>11576701
It’d at least be interesting if SpaceX assigned some R&D to constructing and testing an NTR, see how much thrust and isp they can get out of it.

>>11576698
Wouldn't NTR make the transit to the Moon and Mars much shorter?

>>11576701
Oh I forgot, on top of that there's actually designing a fuel element tough enough to cope with high mass flow without being corroded to shit by super high temperature hydrogen, or being cracked by thermal shocking. There are some promising halfnium/U235 cermets but I doubt the NASA team who investigated them would even be allowed to share the exact formulation and manufacturing process even if they wanted to. SpaceX would have to move into an entirely new branch of material science for them, nuclear cermets, which is also essentially a field that only exists for those who have gone through the massive expense and vetting to be cleared by the NRC to handle substantial quantities of atomic material.

>>11576706
You can still do the speedy 3 month mars transfer with chemicals, you just have a smaler payload.

>>11576706
You can get quicker transit times if you use more delta/v, which a higher isp thruster makes easier to achieve, if you really want to, but the deceleration burn will also be more expensive because, of course, you’re going faster.

>>11576706
It would, for the moon that's not really necessary because the trip there is already trivially short, but even with an NTPR transit time is going to be a good 3-4 months. ISS stints are usually about half that if I'm not mistaken and it would be much more crowded on a colony ship, like a Submarine but even more stressful if it were possible, since at least a submarine has the option to surface. Once you're on your way to Mars that's it, no pit stop, no ability to pop a hatch and take a breath of non-recycled air, no real way to get away from your crewmates.

Without atomic propulsion I could easily see people en-route to Mars going space crazy. Not a psychologist or anything but it seems on the surface to be a valid concern.

>>11576721
Maybe it's because I'm a homebody who barely leaves his house but that doesn't sound so bad.

Should we just wait for fusion then?

>>11576724
Six months sounds easy lol
As long as I can read, watch movies and YouTube, exercise, and fuck someone, I’ll be fine.

>>11576721
Elon talked about a 3-4 month transit with BFR. The fast trajectory is achieveable with a smaller payload and it seems unlikely that even with 100 passengers that the crew quarters are going to be more than 10-20 tonnes. compared to 6 months for the 150t transfer it seems achievable. If you get better propulsion you dont go faster, you take more payload/a bigger ship. But yes the psycological aspect is a problem. Screen colonists for claustrophobia, space anyone who really loses it en route.

>>11576736
Oh shit the crew module is going to have a brig

>>11576698
Chemical propulsion just makes me feel like we're outgunned by 70s technology they decided not to pay for. I just want it to be used on at least one vehicle, so we have an example of the human race's leading propulsion technology. No other mode of transportation holds back like that. Without such an example we're wasting the time we're allotted to optimize it. That way if we need to play asteroid defense or some shit we can die because the technology isn't here instead of the technology never got paid for.

>>11576728
>Fuck someone
That's the only real case for me. I'm a 26 year old virgin. If I ever do go out into space, I hope I'll be getting laid by then.

Also video games, don't forget video games.

>>11576743
Get married you weirdo

>>11576738
Waste of resources, just space the cunts that cant make it. If they lose it en route they probably wont make it on mars either.

>>11576739
It’s a big hurdle just to start testing one because of how stingy governments are with enriched uranium, but I’d think SpaceX could get one doing 1000 isp if they really tried.
Could, uh, work around that if we find uranium ore deposits on Mars.

>>11576724
Imagine being welded into your house but there's also ten other people sharing it, you get privacy only when you sleep or shit, and if you were to open a window you'd die an extremely painful death by simultaneously asphyxiating, vomiting, pissing yourself and shitting your asshole inside out. Submariners are rigorously psychologically screened and trained to cope with that kind of stress, I imagine some version of that will be necessary for non-nuclear spacers too, maybe even have low doses of tranquilizers and anti-anxiety meds in the food and water too. NSWRs are basically baby torch drives and already well within our technological capability, same for Atomic lightbulb rockets, shit for TWR but higher ISP, fine for runs all the way out to the Jovian system probably, ideally you'd want a closed cycle gas core NTPR, a very small amount of U235 fluoride salt gas is injected into a solid quartz sphere contained within a berylium reflector chamber, hydrogen is injected to cool the sphere, which is partially opaque to some of the radiation but not UV, which superheats the hydrogen and gives you your thrust. Similar principle to an atomic lightbulb but much better TWR and similar ISP. It's very clean, the reflector chamber contains radiation in the core, and there's no direct contact between the very small quantity of nuclear fuel and the propellant, if core temperature or pressure exceed safe margins another quartz tube containing neutron poison is shattered, instantly killing the reaction.

That would give you all the inner planets as well as Jupiter and Saturn at the very least.

>>11576706
no, Starship has climbed well up the hill of diminishing returns for Mars trip durations

>>11576751
I'd imagine they'd jump for one of the lower ISP high TWR "dumbo" type designs, simpler and thus safer, more reliable, more reusable, and easier to manufacture in quantity.

>>11576751
Nuke Mars

>>11576752
>NSWRs are basically baby torch drives and already well within our technological capability

Absolutely not, please tell me what exhaust material you are using to receive the thrust of a sustained nuclear explosion? Also you need an absolutey ridiculous amount of enriched material that makes it prohibitively expensive.

>>11576747
I'm going to try to make a serious effort to get a gf, this year or next depending on how things play out

How many Starship versions do you think they'll end up making?

- barebones cargo version to chuck Starlink etc. into LEO

- early crew version for ISS/space tourism/dearMoon

- advanced version to deliver people and cargo to the Moon and Mars

etc.

>>11576761
You don't actually, you use a very, very small amount of a high enrichment U235 salt dissolved in water and inject it into a neutron reflective reaction chamber, however this is still the ""reactor"" element, the coolant/propellant will flow from nozzles situated at the outside edges of the reaction chamber as well as through the walls of the chamber. This would provide two benefits, one it will provide active circulation cooling and film cooling and act as a sort of "afterburner" which will deliver high TWR, which is what would make the NSWR a "baby" torch drive. We're not talking burning up gallons of reactant here, probably more like milliliters a second, the inner walls of the chamber would definitely have to be both neutron reflective and extremely heat tolerant though, probably some high durability tantalum-hafnium cermet.

>>11576752
>NSWRs are basically baby torch drives and already well within our technological capability
My concern with NSWRs is that they use a horrific amount of water, fissile uranium, and bromine, none of which are particularly well suited for ISRU in most of the system. We'd need to find signinficant extraterrestrial uranium resources (maybe in the Belt) before I'd change my mind on that.

>>11576788
Certainly, I doubt they'd ever be used for a variety of reasons, just saying that they're as close to a torch drive as we'll get before developing a workable fusion rocket.

>>11576799
Granted. I think a ship with a big bank of the drives from >>11575473 is the torch-shippiest thing that's produced more than 10µs of thrust so far IRL.

>>11575473
>bro just use a direct energy converter

lul who drew this

>>11576602
CNN literally is destroying by Musk cult army on Twitter

>>11576816
I have one of those in my van

>>11576690
He's wondering how CNN hasn't gone bankrupt yet

>>11575628
Old way of thinking.
Our robots are not a separate entity, they are a part of our human civilization.
Wherever they go it's our doing too.

>>11575811
They had already requested that for part of the constellation, this means they aren't planning any sats in >600km orbits anymore? This seems pretty cool if only for a debris management standpoint.
I guess scientific bases near the poles would love to have a better internet.

>>11576721
>Without atomic propulsion I could easily see people en-route to Mars going space crazy.
That is really exaggerated.
Astronauts on the ISS spend 6 months there with no problem, most are very eager to do that again if they can.

>>11576820
No, they did a poorly sourced article about Tesla not delivering respirators with a "tesla did not answer our requests for comment", Elon slammed them with receipts.

>>11576602
Why now? It was up for like three days.

>>11574546
Inb4 huge media broadcast, half of America tuning in only for it to get scrapped because Falcon9 is fine as ever.

>>11577027
It's just another "no no you can't just DO THAT, remember space is hard" meme. Just don't send a bunch of emotionally fragile extroverts and there's no issue.

covid-19 will delay a manned mission to mars for at least a decade.

>>11577114
>another "no no you can't just DO THAT, remember space is hard" meme
Pic related.

>>11577114
Emotionally fragile extroverts go on the B Ark with the phone sanitizers.

>>11577116
Nah 2024 is looking very optimistic anyway. 2028 should be in the bag COVID or not.

>>11577114
Reminder:
>At a conference a few years back I quizzed a NASA official who advocated a multidecade program investigating zero-gravity health effects on humans prior to a piloted Mars mission. "Why not just employ artificial gravity?" I asked. "We can't do that," he said-"all our data is going to be for zero gravity." Get the picture?

>>11576724
>just wait for fusion
anon . . .

>>11576788
>horrific amount of water
Water is the most common compound in the universe

>>11577210
I don't think his concern is availability, but rather just how fucking much is required to be lugged into orbit.

>>11574546
Not happening.

>>11577212
Not very much at all, what do you mean? The amount of water you need is merely some multiple of the amount of salt water fuel you need, just like chemical bipropellants. Sure, it's a big multiple, but all that means is your nuclear fuel mass is going to be a few dozen kilograms for a vehicle with a wet mass of a thousand tons, and about 800 tons of the vehicle wet mass will be normal water. The remainder is structure, and I haven't included payload mass here because depending on where you're going it can vary wildly. This propulsion system could get tens of thousands of tons of payload into orbit of the Moon, for example, or nearly a thousand tons to Neptune, or it could take 40 tons to Neptune and get there in 4 months instead of 40 years.

Love watching Elon go apeshit on media cocksuckers. Can't wait until he makes that website he talked about a while back where we can go and review bomb shitcunt journalists.

>>11576766
expendable version for fuckhuge payload

space station / science vessel version designed for long habitation, docking by spacecraft, boosting to stay in orbit

orbital constructor with arms

non-update on aero changes

>Will it look similar still or will it be pretty obvious?

>Similar, but seemingly small changes can have surprisingly big effects

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1251384072967827458

>>11577116
Covid will be history in a year tops.
Once we have the vaccine it will go away.

>>11577632
>Once we have the vaccine it will go away
You may want to study how SARS-CoV vaccine attempts have gone for 17 years.

>>11576987

>>11577679
do you have the "Jeff Who pissed on my girlfriend" one

>>11577683
kek

>>11576987
CNN went after him again after Musk corrected them. Now they're trying to prove Musk wrong through technicality.

>>11577695
lmao CNN is retarded

>>11574701
Legit catgirls would be a fucking PR disaster and would lead to something comparable to a Cyriak animation. Robogirls are the best option, as Elon already has the steel to make a proper skeletal structure, and he could find a proper use for AI. You can also make them robotcatgirls.

>>11574703
Especially moeshit. Reminder that there's no Starship waifu, only meta cooler

>>11574818
Starship is steel based, not smooth muscle based.
It'd get pretty hot or cold, depending on whether the sun is shining on it.
Lmao go back to >>>/d/

>>11577264
Holy FUCKING BASED

>>11577264
Also I hope he brings South African apartheid back and leads a revolt on the long nosed elite

>>11577264
>Starlink News Network
He should start Starlink newsmedia group.

hop when?

>>11577800
the media needs diversity, its too jewish

today is the 18th, air force graduation day. 60 newly commissioned officers are about to join the space force. pence will be giving the graduation speech, so expect some space stuff.

>>11577812
starts in 40 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO3Ix_jKbZM

>60 officers
sorry im seeing some sources say 60 while others say as many as 90

>>11577827
nvm it says its this stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6oI5rveBU0
starts in 6 minutes

>>11577758
literally who

>>11577834
>>11577827
Thanks.

Cheeky Elon signing off there.

86 cadets are joining the space force

he said "space professionals", so they still havent figured out the name that they will call space force people

>>11577758
>reeeeeee not a show for little girls!
>my memes come from a show for little boys

>>11578097
Virgin little girls VS chad little boys

pence didnt say anything interesting about space, what a fag

>>11578165
He never does.

looks like they wear white instead of yellow like the air force cadets

>>11578189
>that seating
I love the current happenings, life has been a fun roller coaster lately

>>11578132
>Virgin little girls

>>11578189
Yea looks like Silver to me.

>>11578165
At least some of the preshow shout outs were pretty hype for Space.

>>11578189
shit those uniforms look pretty good

sweet sash

>>11578189
>tfw no big tiddy space force gf

>>11577694
Elon posts some weird stuff sometimes...

>>11578441
link?

>>11578441
*notices ur tharsis bulge*

>>11578477
Bro trust me.

>>11577454
It needs big legs
Which will likely be built into the fins

Elon Musk is such a funny little character

>May the 27th is a wednesday.

FUCK! I have to work that day and cant follow the launch, live... Please postpone it to the weekend!

>>11574696

How are they going to fuck up this one?

>>11578735
>blew the top
>blew the bottom
>had the thing fold on itself
They did pretty much everything they could to wrong with just static tests except maybe popping it sideways SLS-style, so I bet it's going to catch some weird resonance during the engine run and blow the launch site to tiny bits with a massive fireball

>>11578797
Dunno, that of all things seems somewhat unlikely just because so far Raptors have performed really well during their static test fires and the hops.

>>11578797
They are reusing part of the old SN3 bottom. This might bite them if there are any invisible cracks during pressure test.

>>11578849
If microfractures doom the steel for a second fueling its not a candidate for re-usability anyway

Also are microfractures even a thing for steel? Even when its cold hardened?

>space force using multicam
>spy satellites and space planes camouflaged with dry brush

>>11578919
USSF needs to bankroll a new Stargate series... I'm sure SG1 was a huge advertising opportunity for the air force and would make much more sense with the space force

>>11578849
I heard that they made a new one. Just to be safe.

>>11578919
Since no one's going to space, they should probably camouflage their personnel for their operating theater - the ground.

>>11578988
Do they need camouflage at all? Is it just going to stay this way because it's cheaper to use what every other branch is using?

>>11579010
They'll use the same service uniform as everyone else because it's cheaper and standing out is not what you want to do outside of a parade.

>>11578988
gotta be grey to blend in with the cubicle.

>>11578735
This one will fail with fuel loaded

>>11578863
If there are cracks they came from being part of an imploding vehicle, not because the tanks were pressurized at cryo before.

>>11578969
It'd be better if they revealed a real one to show up the chinks.

>>11579081
that would be the progression, huh
I'm predicting they fuck up the hoverslam somehow on one of these hops

>>11578810
The engines have run well attached to a firing stand. But they haven’t fired three together while attached to the full structure.

Heat shield spotted for Starship SN4

>>11579347
That's a terrible prediction. Tank failures makes sense, but level ground landings have been extremely consistent. Has SpaceX ever failed an on-shore landing?

>>11579452
What material is that

>>11579452
so they're just going to... slap them on there, huh

>>11579452
Hmm What are they going to test? This prototype wont go to orbit

>>11579461
they fucked up the last Starhopper 150m hop landing
they fucked up one of the Falcon 9 landing test articles
>>11579465
they're testing to see if the heat shield will:
A. Stay on after the rocket is cryogenically fueled and pressurized (dimensional and thermal changes)
B. Stay on after the rocket does a hop (flight vibration environment)

>>11579462
Tufroc, probably
>>11579465
Adhesion under vibration? That'd be my guess

>>11579465
not with that attitude

>>11579462
unidentified ceramic heat shield tile
like the shuttle tiles but with modern materials instead of shit from the 70s

>>11579477
Elon tweeted that this one would never get wings and thus will never go to orbit (because what's the point if you're not going to be testing getting it back and then littering on Texas)

>>11579471
>they fucked up the last Starhopper 150m hop landing
It landed fine and didn't explode, I don't think you can call that a failed landing.

>>11579486
it was on fire

>>11579452
upscaled

>>11579473
>>11579471

Ye, adhesion seems the most logical explanation. How do you think these are attached?

>>11579487
I don't see the issue.

>>11579493
Tape from Walmart and beeswax

>>11579500
Beeswax melt at ~60C. Duct tapes melt @ ~90C. neither are suitable for flying.

11579505
you don't get a (You)

>>11579478
Hopefully it’s superior, then. I wonder how difficult it would be to perform an in-orbit or otherwise in-vacuum repair. Segments could get lost or otherwise worn out between here and Mars and back again, so doing so may be necessary at some point. I’d imagine a little robot or an astronaut wearing an EVA jet pack would be required.

>>11579491
What's with the gaps?

>>11579452
>>11579491

>>11579493
mechanically, somehow
bolts?

How to leave Earth atmosphere only with pure electricity?

>>11579600
Like....without using propellant? Railgun

>>11579602
yeah, a railgun version of saddam's spacegun.
Really wonder about the end result of that project if the west did not intervene.

>>11579617
any device capable of reaching orbit is functionally equivalent to an ICBM, so there was never a chance we'd let Saddam build one.

>>11579634
ofcourse, but i'm thinking about the non lethal part of it.
No human could survive the shot, but smallsat launches maybe?

>>11579617
Any kind of gun to reach significant fractions of orbital speed is doa, particularly on Earth. Take a tiny payload and then sacrifice what little you have to make sure it somehow survives high instantaneous G load and the equivalent of re-entry but starting from full atmosphere. Imagine it's great for hitting shit with solid iron rods really hard though.

>>11579650
You could conceivably create a sort of rocket gun that launches a projectile that then powers itself enough to merely maintain its given velocity

>>11579600
Discover how to reach 10km/s at sea level and not die

>>11579650
Makes you wonder how dumb the irakees where to throw money at this canadian making promises about global payload delivery.

I worry more about Super Heavy than Starship

>>11579686
SH is the easy part compared to SS. No aero to worry about, no re-entry effects.