/sci/ - Science & Math

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Yes. Yes it does. If you don't go to a top tier school then you'll never get into a graduate program, not get a job, and be a poor miserable failure (aka teach high school).

i don't think undergraduate schools ever really matter. its all about that GPA and letters of rec.

>>1155990
You could, at the very least, know what you're talking about. It's something like 70% of science teachers that aren't qualified to teach their subject.

There were teachers at my school who taught like biology AND chem at "AP" levels. Complete bullshit.

>>1156006
YOU JUST GOT TROLLED

OP here....I plan to work my ass off at the plain school and get my GPA as high as possible, then pursue graduate studies at a top 10 Uni.

I'd save 60k at least if I went to the plain school that's close to me. I also would'nt be poor as dirt while I am attending because I wouldn't have to pay any bills.

>>1155990
Exaggeration. You don't need to go to a TOP tier school, but you can't be trying to get into a worthwhile graduate program from some shitty school. If your school is research active then you're probably in good shape.

Also, do well. DO WELL IN SCHOOL. Everything is less important than your grades during undergrad, especially having sex.

>>1156028
>top 10
Not happening.

High GPA? Cool, but what about letters of recommendation? Do you think anyone at an elite school will take a letter from your unknown professor seriously, compared to someone at a good school who gets recommended by their professor?

School does matter. Don't let the delusional people here at schools outside the top 40 fool you into thinking otherwise.

>>1156054

Then what do you suggest?

>>1156062
An hero

>>1156077

back to /b/ please....thank you.

>>1156062

If you're not already in the network of the top 40 schools by the time you enter high school, you can enjoy being a peasant for the rest of your life.

>>1156028
>save 60k

Oh my fuck what country is this? Are you an American? Holy shit that's bad.

as long as you go to a decent school that has some national recognition, you'll be fine. I went to a state school (one of the better public schools) and know plenty of people who went to grad schools that were top 10 in their program.

Everyone here doesn't realize that 99 percent of astronauts went to military universities that pay for the tution. OP should go there since he would need a 95 and recommendations otherwise.

I'm working on a Ph.D. in physics at Stanford, and I graduated from a plain state school in the Midwest with a weak physics department. I also got accepted into Princeton, Caltech, and a bunch of state schools. Rejected from U. Chicago, though.

>>1156125
Back when I was graduating in 2003 my university decided to confer an honorary degree to John Ralston Saul. The esteemed individual got up and gave a wonderful 45 minute speech railing on the excessive costs of education forcing students to take safe jobs to pay off the debt instead of taking risks and innovating. The President of University at the time was the CEO of TD Bank. His face was very red and smoke was billowing out of his ears when he had to thank Mr. Saul for the speech.

>>1156125
60,000 dollars isn't bad you idiot you need to realize he needs to pay for shit while saving up. Derp.

>>1156125

60k because the school 2 hours away costs twice as much to go to as this school....I MIGHT attending my school for 1-2 years then transfer...haven't decided yet.

So you should ignore these people hurr-durring about school prestige. The top schools are better, but you shouldn't choose them for prestige. A good school will offer better opportunities for undergraduate research. And if the physics department at your school is weak, you won't be able to take as many graduate-level courses in undergrad.

>>1156166 you need to realize he needs to pay for shit while saving up

I don't understand what that means. Can you rephrase it?

Personally my undergrad degree is costing ~£20000, at a good university rather than a local one, while his differential between a good university and a bad university already eclipses that. :S

>HE DOESN'T GET SCHOLARSHIPS
>HE PAYS FOR COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!

>>1156186

My school now will cost less than 7k a year...while the other one will cost 22k total.

>>1155963

The school that you go to doesn't matter.

What does matter is getting a good letter of recommendation. If your going to a school where a well known researcher is teaching this is easier.

If not you'll need to hustle a bit.

Here's a good source for further information...

http://matt.might.net/articles/how-to-apply-and-get-in-to-graduate-school-in-science-mathematics-eng
ineering-or-computer-science/

>>1156062

Do research as an undergrad. Find a professor whose work interests you and ask if he's looking for any volunteers.

>>1156028
Why do you have to pay for school? Are you stupid?

>>1155962
did you know moot is a thief? www.anonfalk.se except t instead of f in the middle because moot is a psycho 8f22f9f8fd4c11fb931a5e1889fe7603

>>1155963
No, it really doent matter, as long as you get good rec letters, and some good undergrad research done, you should be fine

>>1156311

Of course I am gonna get loans...but it's a matter of how much debt I'll accumulate afterwards. I'm not training to become a surgeon...so it's gonna take me a long time to pay it off.

With the school I have here...I might get cash back because the classes are cheap...while the other one will drain everything I have and more.

All that for just an undergraduate education...which will MOST LIKELY be the same thing everywhere.

>>1156283
>Do research as an undergrad.

Doesn't everyone have to do a research project as part of their 3rd year?

>>1156376

Not everyone. If you're doing honors, depends. Some schools have their conditions for honors just be a specific GPA level. Some require the GPA and additional courses and/or an honors project.

But doing volunteering will give you more research experience, which you'll definitely need if you want to go to grad school.

The major change, however, is in recommendations. Academia is super-fucking clubby. They all have friends at other universities: advisers, collaborators, students, heroes, disciples, whatever. If they get a stellar letter from someone they know, they're going to give it more value than a stellar letter from someone they've never heard of. If you take four classes from some famous prof and he thinks you're a genius he can generally get you into a number of places with a phone call. I'm not exaggerating; I know plenty of people with mediocre grades and standardized test scores who are only in PhD programs (and doing well) because someone important recognized their talent and made it happen.

Standardized tests are still somewhat important, but are less so because they have those other things to go on. For a technical PhD, the general GRE, for example, doesn't really matter. If you can't ace the math part in your sleep then you should rethink getting a technical degree. It is, literally, easier than the SAT. The English part doesn't matter because, as I said, a good number of your fellow grad students won't even be able to speak the language. You got a 500? You're a fucking English god.

>>1156282

Basically this.

I'm less certain about how things work in the rest of the world, but in the United States graduate school admission is something a little different from undergraduate admission. There are dozens of thousands of high schools across the country. No undergraduate admissions office is going to familiar with all of them and they certainly aren't going to be familiar with the fact that Mrs. Miller's English class is much easier than Mrs. Smith's. So recommendations mean exactly nothing (unless it's from someone really famous and even then only if your relationship with said famous person is meaningful). Grades mean less as well since they can't really compare across schools. So instead they look at what classes you took relative to what was offered, how you did relative to your classmates (rank), and standardized test scores.

For graduate studies, everything changes. For one thing, if you're going to get a PhD in Physics, they don't give a shit that you took the hardest English class in the university and got the highest grades. The fact that you can speak English fluently is going to mean you're a English superstar wherever you end up. They want to know how you did in relevant coursework. Since departments are accredited by their own, they also know that there's a minimum standard of material for, say, complex analysis. So now they can compare across schools and you're going to need to have done really well in what matters and you're going to have needed to taken the right classes.

The GRE subject test matters a little bit more, but only incrementally. If you got good grades they'll overlook most performances that aren't absolutely awful: everyone has a bad day. If you got less-than-great grades and an awesome score and have great recs, they'll assume that you were unfocused, but smart and will generally be happy.

The main thing to do if you want to get into a good graduate program is to convince someone important that you're smart and that they are personally interested in helping you get in. The easiest way to do that is to be smart, take hard classes from good profs, do well, and (and I can not stress this enough) make yourself known to the faculty. Answer questions in class, go to class, go to office hours to talk about additional topics, do undergraduate research. Make those motherfuckers think it would be a tragedy if you don't study physics. They don't have to like you (it helps), they just have to think that you have great potential.

So as long as your university has a solid set of classes in your discipline, a few people with solid contacts to great graduate programs, and at least a few opportunities for a motivated student to excel, you'll be fine. That describes something like 70% of the schools since even mid-tier universities tend to recruit faculty from top-tier institutions.

graduate admissions:

GPA
GRE scores
Letters of Rec (helps if you can find the authors online)
Papers (eg journal papers published with your name)
undergraduate research


it depends on the applicant but...

GPA
GRE
Research
letters of rec


are obviously the most important (not everyone has a paper)

3 good can make up for a bad 4th.

GRE, letters of Rec and undergraduate research will make up for a 3.2 gpa and some bad grades.


some will tell you its the GRE

others will say GPA

still others will say the Letter of Rec.


realistically, its probably the GRE or the letters of Rec that really push you over the edge

GPA is pretty subjective and does not genuinely measure how much you know.


what other people say about you, and how prestigious those people are can get you a lot.


if all 3 letters of rec are from faculty at your university in scientific fields, and all 3 have easily accessible web pages with good documentation....

an application reviewer will be able to research these people and say something like:

"well, this applicant knows some legimite scientists who say that he/she is a great worker and student"

>>1156438
what the fuck is this shit. In europe it's pretty easy to get accepted to masters programmes and PhDs.

Basically need to have completed the needed courses, and that's about it. There's like 6 people studying my field (astronomy) in my city. And I go to the top uni in the country. Do you think they will reject the only applicant for the masters programme?

Sucks to be in america. The quality of the education is top notch, we run the ATLAS detector in CERN and are prominent in astronomy (which I study).

It doesn't matter. If you do VERY well in your undergraduate coursework, WHILE doing research, AND are not a total dipshit, you'll be fine. It's a balance between those.

>>1156146
>>1156146
>>1156146
Where did you get your undergraduate?

>>1156559

You realize that if he tells you this, you'll know exactly who he is. Shit he's probably given you enough information to narrow it down to a couple of people...

>>1156609

Wow, never mind. Stanford doesn't list its grad students to the outside world.

Great privacy policy!

fuck it, just go to CC and then transfer into your local uni, then you can go to your local uni's grad program herp derp

An additional note, I live near a NASA research center and live in close proximity to a few people who work there, 50% of whom, graduated from the local city university, but pursued their PhDs at excellent grad schools. I'm tellin' ya, hard work and a strong desire to study throughout your entire life, are your necessary skills.