/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11541502
Yep

They're quite busy.

The worst part is that often there's no way to contact them. They're essentially ghosts. You look up their full name online and 100s of results pop up in hundreds of universities, many working in the same field and sometimes even in the same university.

>>11541506
>many working in the same field and sometimes even in the same university.
lmao sometimes I think they're samefagging in academic way.

>thank foe free ressersh stupid gweilo EEEEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEE!

Yeah, you're racist, we get it.

>>11541572
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_United_States

>>11541585
Can you imagine if someone did that except to almost every country on earth?

>>11541648
What? Be Chinese? Hellish.
http://www.cryptome.org/cuw.htm

>>11541572
>>11541648
>t. Zhang

>>11541572

>>11541572

chinese spies destroy western colleges and limit opportunities for citizens

it's a massive counterintelligence operation against the western public, who can't even understand the problem.

online sentiment is inconsequential compared to reality. and in reality, they must be deported if we are to maintain any semblance of intellectual culture or political relevance.

>>11541648
Yes, I can imagine China.

>>11541502
based

>>11541765
>>11541769
>>11541786

and the idea that these are "racist" observations is asinine. american academic culture is dying. will nobody lift a finger?

>>11541801
academic culture is dying worldwide because the chinese first infiltrate the higher education institutions abroad, and then go back to their own country and pump out massive amounts of shitty research that drowns out actual good science

>>11541813

can nothing be done? doesn't anyone understand what we're losing?

>>11541813
academic culture is dying because everyone gets a degree.
Chinks are just cherry on top.

>>11541827
>academic culture is dying because everyone gets a degree.

interest in higher education is at an all-time high but colleges are subverted by counterintelligence. the importance of STEM is being vastly understated, and it's taught very, very poorly, usually by people born in a different country.

they are not the "cherry on top". people are not motivated to participate when they can't see themselves in their leaders and educators. they have no role models, and nothing to aspire towards.

if someone sees that most graduate students are foreign, will they think they belong in grad school? of course not. there's no social opportunity for them there, no support group.

yes, they could still apply and attend. but how many do? is that a realistic expectation given what we know about human psychology? of course not.

>>11541848
cont.

and this isn't even considering the vested interests of foreign academics and the inevitable nepotism that they practice once they're in power.

i'm not saying the chinese shouldn't go to college. they can build their own colleges. they have a billion laborers. nowhere in the world is it likely cheaper to put up a building than in china. so why don't they do that instead of coming here?

because they want to weaken us. that is why.

>>11541822
universities want money, chinks have money. simple. we'll most likely need to wait until their government collapses

>>11541860

but that is an obvious conflict of interest, especially when we're talking about public universities. who would i report that to?

I had a Chinese lecturer. Cringed when he first started talking but later turned out to be the best teacher I ever had

>>11541866
if the government asks universities wtf they're doing, their response is that chinks give them money to invest in the university, which improves the quality of education for americans — sounds good, right? except, of course, all the investments are used just to bring more and more chinks. I honestly have no idea how to end this.

>>11541866

and graduate tuition is peanuts anyway. it hardly seems worth it. if people are being bribed with more money than that, then it's probably something one of those three letter agencies should be working on, right?

>>11541877
see
>>11541878

graduate tuition is peanuts. it must be a tiny, tiny sliver of their budget. so i don't buy this. seems more likely that they're being bribed or getting kickbacks from the chinese, which is again, a conflict of interest, and also illegal.

the people who decide these things probably can't even hold a goddamned meeting for less than what a semester of graduate education costs.

they're getting kickbacks from the chinese, and there's a clear conflict of interest here. is this not exactly why the FBI exists?

and you know, i wouldn't even give a shit if it were anything else. but this is dangerous. our workforce suffers. our culture suffers. our national security is put at risk.

>>11541883
it's not just graduate tuition and it's not peanuts. I don't have any good data for US handy, but here's an email my coworker in the UK received from his university regarding post-coronavirus finances:
>While we are clear about the short-term impact of the virus on our finances, there are a significant number of unknowns in the medium term.
Most universities are assuming that the impact of the global shutdown and travel restrictions mean there will be a significant loss of income from international students next year. For us that could be a loss of up to £165 million.
>[...] in line with other Russell Group universities, we are modelling a reasonable worst case scenario of a loss of income of between £150 million and £200 million from our annual income of £700 million.
so they will lose up to 25% of their income just because the chinks won't show up.

>>11541502
I get what you are getting at, but there are a couple Zhang's at my school and one of them is a leading RNA and NMR spectroscopist who is a really cool dude. Wish I could find out what sorta drugs he does to be so damn peppy all the time though, literally runs everywhere.

>>11541896
amphetamines

>>11541897
We have been debating that, we think it might be some type. However the exact formula he is using is unknown. If I could get my hands on his stash I'd be done with my PhD in a year

>>11541894

so you are saying that western public universities, whose mission is to educate the domestic public and who receive a lot of money from the state and who have a virtually unlimited number of domestic students willing to take out loans to attend, can't cover their expenses without foreign funding? that doesn't add up.

it defeats the purpose if there are no americans getting advanced degrees or participating in academic culture.

i'm not saying we shouldn't have foreign students, just that they shouldn't comprise the overwhelming majority of a given student body, like graduate students. that's an entirely reasonable position to take. it is not racist. it is not selfish. it is not unjust.

>>11541813
>academic culture is dying worldwide because the chinese first infiltrate the higher education institutions abroad

Can you really blame the Chinese for this? Isn't the west having a problem with SJW shutting down academic integrity?

> pump out massive amounts of shitty research

Yea, western academics do this too. "Publish or Perish". At least you can easily filter Chinese papers.

>>11541955

not him, but i'm less interested in laying blame than i am in a return to normalcy/sanity

>>11541896
>Wish I could find out what sorta drugs he does to be so damn peppy all the time though, literally runs everywhere.
does he weigh 110 pounds? if so, it's a bit easier than for heavier peeps

>>11541585
>>11541725
>>11541737
>>11541765
Yeah, you're racist, we get it.

>>11541962
>a return to normalcy/sanity

Understandable but naive.

>>11542021

why do you say that? only in the last few years did this change take place. it is not a normal condition.

>>11541979
Nah, he is a solid guy. Way more energy then a human has right to have. Love to talk with him, but taking his NMR classes left me winded.

>>11542040
>only in the last few years did this change take place

Or did you only notice it in the last few years?

>>11542049
well, either he takes speed, or his body naturally produces the equivalent of amphetamine to begin with, it doesn't really make a difference. the drug selegiline works by altering MAO levels in the brain so that dopamine is more available, majorly increasing drive and motivation, and it also leaves behind amphetamine and methamphetamine metabolites in your bloodstream; these "byproducts" are always present because it's a daily medication...obviously with human variation, some folks will simply have that chemical functionality to begin with.

>>11542051

would have been hard not to notice.

>>11541985
calm down, Zhang

>>11541502
Dunno about Zhang, but my advisor recommends ignoring papers written by Indians. In her own words "it's not prejudice, it's just past experiences"

>>11541911
Gotta build the new rugby field, an entire new building, all the expensive machines, get into a bidding war for some big name scientist, etc.
High end American universities burn money like it's going out of fashion

>>11543228

i'm talking about state colleges. none of that is worth it if citizens do not participate.

>>11543326

particularly if they' don't participate in STEM, particularly graduate programs for STEM, because 95% of the rest of academia is pointless wankery

if americans underachieve in STEM now, they'll be put to rout in the coming years. what reason do foreign-born faculty have to educate americans over their own compatriots? none, and the demographics of most STEM graduate programs bear that out very clearly.

>>11541985
oh no please not, don't call me the r-word, i'm shivering

>>11544065
redneck

>>11544100
MOOOODS!!1!

>>11543185
Kek

>>11543336
The STEM student body at my school was like 95% american or more. And we had some foreign professors.

>>11541502
fucking kek
This is like everyone I know irl lmao

>>11543228
Why would American universities build rugby fields?

>>11541848
>I didn't apply to graduate school because it was only 50% American
No good scientist would ever think this, so it seems like an effective filter for the brainlets. Leave graduate school to people who care more about their field than the Demographic Question.

>>11543185
based

>>11544638
t. Wong

>>11545288
>Leave graduate school to people who care more about their field than the Demographic Question.
yes, good goy, affirmative action for nonwhites only...

>>11541572
>>11541985

imagine shilling for the CCP

>>11545288

you're putting words in my mouth. it's not 50% american. it's about 1-2% american at most. i wouldn't care if it were 50% american. that would be great. but it's not, the problem is one of extent.

i care about my field very much. why do you think i don't? do you think it's easy to work with a bunch of foreigners who have no real interest in seeing you succeed or anything beyond getting a goddamned work visa after they graduate? do you really think these people are advancing science or thinking outside the box? are you so far up your own ass that you think we're better off this way?

>>11545339

why are they like this?

>>11545339

why are they like this. is their vision not far more exclusionary than mine? where do americans go if they have no academic culture for themselves? indians can always study in india, the chinese can always study in china. but if american colleges don't serve americans, then where do we study? where do we do research? where are we to feel welcome?

>>11541896
Literally just get a script for Adderall dude. It actually changes your life. I wasn't even trying to get one and it did.

>>11541572
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Plan

>>11545404
>i care about my field very much. why do you think i don't? do you think it's easy to work with a bunch of foreigners who have no real interest in seeing you succeed or anything beyond getting a goddamned work visa after they graduate? do you really think these people are advancing science or thinking outside the box? are you so far up your own ass that you think we're better off this way?
The quality associated with american academia is entirely - and I mean ENTIRELY - owed to top scientists imported from Europe and Asia with the promise of stability and economic opportunity. This isn't to say that every good scientist in America is an imported foreigner or their direct student, but other countries have good scientists too, I'm talking about the "prestige" associated with many American institutions.

You are the worst kind of stupid: vitriolic and misinformed. Direct your egoistic cognitive dissonance between how smart you think you are and your perceived failure to get into a good grad school elsewhere.

>>11545428
cont.

who are we to confide in? who will help us? or will we just struggle against foreign interests and counter-intelligence until we become exhausted and burn out? is this really our fate? is this what they'd consider "fair" and "just"? is that what they'd want for their children? i just can't believe that.

>>11545437
>The quality associated with american academia is entirely - and I mean ENTIRELY - owed to top scientists imported from Europe and Asia with the promise of stability and economic opportunity.
those opportunities are being siphoned from citizens of the united states, you're welcome.

>>11545442
Delusional. Absolutely delusional.

>>11541848
If most graduate students are foreign, then everyone's faced with the situation of seeing most graduate students being of a different background unless over half of the foreign contingent is composed of a single ethnicity. If other people can deal with ethnically diverse departments, then you should be able to as well.

>>11545437

worst case of we-wuzzing i've seen in a long time. the most famous scientist involved with my department early on was white and american-born and it has been on a downhill slide ever since they've started hiring more chinese.

>>11545450
for every dumb gook who thinks he's special that gets dropped into the american education system there's a white person of superior intelligence whose education was neglected for token diversity. Get out of my fucking country.

>>11545460

this, but unironically

>>11545460
I hope you're not suggesting Asians are favored by affirmative action.

>>11545464

affirmative action and asian nepotism are one in the same. anti-white.

>>11545468
About 4/5 of university professorates are white in the US.

>>11545460
I'm not chinese you utter fucking mongoloid, I'm european and the issue I take isn't with the claim that chinese students often have ulterior motives while studying in the US (sounds plausible, I'm inclined to believe it but I don't have any data to back it up) and produce substandard research (true in my experience). The claim I take issue with is that there's a problem with american grad students being a minority in their departments when importing foreign scientists is pretty much the only reason your departments are worth shit in the first place.

>>11545459
>White
Irrelevant because (1) american racial classifications are murky and impossible to define and (2) a scientist's skin colour has no bearing on their ability to perform meaningful work, you seething /pol/-mind controlled cuckoid undergraduate piece of filth.
>American-Born
And under whom did he study? Another "American-Born"?

Regardless, your point is extra irrelevant because I never said all good scientists in america are foreign, I just stated what is common knowledge about post-WWII history.

affirmative action and asian nepotism are one and the same. if there are no americans participating, that is a problem regardless of why they're excluded.

>>11545481

ah but what about STEM professors?

>>11541572
>yes, I am racist, how could you tell?

>>11545489
>And under whom did he study? Another "American-Born"?

apparently so.

>Regardless, your point is extra irrelevant because I never said all good scientists in america are foreign, I just stated what is common knowledge about post-WWII history.

quite the assertion you're making. and i strongly suspect that that those "top scientists imported from Europe and Asia" to whom american colleges owe their prestige are more european than asian.

>>11545489
>importing foreign scientists is pretty much the only reason your departments are worth shit in the first place.
if you think outsourcing education is a good idea you're either retarded or dishonest.

>>11545496
It's public data, go look it up if you're so inclined.

>>11545512
>>11545514
Open a history book and read up on who you owe your chemical, space, physics, mathematical and computer science research.

You'll find many americans, but you'll see that almost none of them (if any) came up with their research alone or working only with other "american-borns".

>>11545527
>Open a history book and read up on who you owe your chemical, space, physics, mathematical and computer science research.
I would have said the exact same thing to you but I know you're too dumb to ever open a book.

>>11545527
>Open a history book and read up on who you owe your chemical, space, physics, mathematical and computer science research.

mostly americans, british, jews, germans, french, and italians. maybe a few dutchmen and irish, austrian, etc.

>>11545538
Ok /pol/ zoomer.

>>11541502
Explain to a non academic what you mean by this

>>11541769
What? Please elaborate.

>>11545527

mostly western europeans and americans (who are a mix of western europeans).

but that's entirely beside the point. we are no longer participating in our own schools. it's very sad, and even more concerning. we could be the best or worst scientists alive but we still want a place to study and work and do research.

>>11545547
>Explain to a non academic what you mean by this
Chinese researchers do bad research. Seeing a Chinese name in a reference is grounds for dismissing it.

>>11545547
Honest question: why are you on /sci/ if you don't understand OP's post?

"Zhang" is a common chinese name, "et al" means "and others". When someone is talking about a scientific document (article, paper, etc), they'll usually mention the authors. Depending on how much each author contributed to the document and how many authors there are, they may choose to mention them as "Main Author and others", hence. "Zhang et al". The joke is that chinese authors have a reputation for producing badly written (sometimes badly conducted or outright false) research, and the anime character in OP's image opens one eye because he's interested in the paper but goes back to sleep when he realises it was written by chinese people.

>>11545489
>The claim I take issue with is that there's a problem with american grad students being a minority in their departments when importing foreign scientists is pretty much the only reason your departments are worth shit in the first place.

and you called me egoistic. we have a big problem and this is what you're going to fuss over? fine, there are lots of good european scientists, and many of them had a hand in building america. i am of european descent too. but guess what, there aren't many european grad students in my program either. so stop splitting hairs.

>>11545566
I get whats a paper and whats a last name and "et al" but that's not the question.

>Honest question: why are you on /sci/ if you don't understand OP's post?
Guess what baby Im gonna post all day here just out of spite.

>>11545517

so either the numbers don't support your point, and you won't look it up, or you can't find the information and would send me on a difficult and fruitless search? you sound very chinese.

>>11545608
cont.

bear in mind too that things have changed only over the past few years, so info from 2016 for instance may not be accurate.

>>11545566
kek i couldn't explain it like you did, anon. thnx!

>>11545602
just go back, pls.

>>11541572
>look at muh racism boogeyman pay no attention to the reality around you

>>11545460
>>11545489

i wish you could see things from my point of view. i wish you'd try to understand why forgoing the mission of public education and prioritizing foreign interests hurts us. i has caused me a lot of grief, and i think we have been debased.

>>11545633
i'm not amerikan, how can i know if i'm an underrepresented minority? show me the list.

>>11545643
If you're not white.

>>11545649
oh that was easy. thnx for the tip.

>>11545639

but nobody ever gives ebil white males the benefit of the doubt, least of all american white males.

the post-secondary education system in the united states is tailored for the wealthy, regardless of their race. the fact that white people are being marginalized is a symptom of other countries becoming wealthy and sending their children here for a better education. This is negative for both the country sending their children, because it results in less intelligent people in their country of origin (brain drain) and also siphons opportunities for higher education from natural born citizens as more resources are taken up by exchange students. International students make up 5.5 percent of the total U.S. higher education population.

>>11545633
I'll comment in this dumpster of a thread one last time, because this post is too fucking RETARDED to ignore: your image is not an argument against what I've said in any capacity. All it proves is that there is a bias towards certain minorities in the US when considering their acceptance into undergraduate programs. THIS DOESN'T EVEN TOUCH ON THE EXISTENCE OR INEXISTENCE OF SAID BIAS IN GRAD SCHOOL APPLICATIONS, AND EVERYONE KNOWS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS A THING (WHOSE DISCUSSION DOESN'T BELONG ON THIS BOARD).

You are a FUCKING RETARD and it angers me. I wish the inane garbage mod came back to /sci/ and banned you filth.

>>11545668
>International students make up 5.5 percent of the total U.S. higher education population.

they make up a larger fraction of STEM and economically relevant fields.

>>11545669
>dumpster of a thread

it's far better that most of the stupid threads on this board.

>>11545669

>>11543021
>>11544065
>>11545376
Yeah, you're racist, we get it.

i'm tired of the gaslighting. i'm not stupid or lazy.

it's not right. everyone else gets to have good experiences. i was told that if i studied hard and worked hard, things would work out. but i've just been led on one fruitless endeavor after another, while everyone else has seemingly miraculous success. they all have peer groups of their compatriots. they are all tight knit. there is nothing left for me.

>>11545955
gamer finally begins to open his eyes

>>11545960

i don't see what you're trying to say. how can i possibly succeed when foreigners and my own compatriots in the usa have it out for me? when there are millions of chinese who want to push me out?

>>11545977
not him, but it's high time we band together. this multicultural experiment while well intentioned has been nothing but our self-exploitation. enough is enough. we open our doors for them, give them legs up over ourselves and what do we get in return? nothing. just get used up. we wanted to have a society where we can all have a seat at the table but clearly that was a lie.

if there is nothing left for me, then i do not belong in this world. if i cannot do what i'm supposed to do, then god will just have to send me back another time.

>>11541737
Lmao

>>11545669
>undergraduate programs
learn how to read retard

>>11541502
The leading paper that I based my Master's thesis on was a Zhang et al. Halfway through I realized their methods were completely bogus and I couldn't even begin contacting any of the authors. Still got the degree then got the fuck out of academia.

>>11541502
Always go with Chiang et al. Taiwanese scientists are based.

>>11545566
I dont have issues with quality of chinese research, however with their names it is completely impossible to remember the authors and associate their work with them. There is also shit load of papers by chinese authors published every month, indistinguishable by names.