/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11534349
https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173

tl;dr?

>>11534349
>high homology
confirmed for pleb tier science
Either it's homologous, or it isn't

>>11534349
BUMP

We are trying to start hsi over on x of all places, but SCi should look at this

Also the relation between Porphytin, chloroquine, and quinine (peruvian/jesuit bark)

http://physicsopenlab.org/2016/07/04/porphyrins-the-colors-of-life/

https://www.americanscientist.org/article/porphyrins-one-ring-in-the-colors-of-life

>>>/x/24635721

>>11535588
Knock out iron atoms, porphyrins can transport oxogyn, hence the symptoms

>>11536126

>>11534349
>simulation of a biologic process
into the trash it goes

>>11536143
yet this could explain why Chloroquine works when it binds to porphyrins

>>11536140
So the reason for breathing problems is threefold? Pneumonia + nervous system attacks necessitating manual breathing + iron deficiency for oxygen transport.
If this is true, holy shit.

>>11536287
that is a theory ive seen on twitter among the few who have tweated about the paper

>>11534349
So it’s what pneumonia literally does to your lungs, they have known this for 100 years.

>>11534349
Virtually everyone who survived was low on iron.

>>11536312
Albeit a very severe case of pneumonia. Which is what this is in some people very severe pneumonia

>>11536312
except pneumonia is not in the family of coronaviruses

COVID is an ancient RNA virus

>>11536316
Can you elaborate? What's the implication?

The survivors were iron deficient, but not as severely deficient as the ones who died?

>>11534349
Those who have died had extremely high iron levels. Is it connected to this? Maybe a weird idea, but if there is a connection, couldn't bloodletting help?

>>11536325
You do realize that pneumonia is caused by another infection? You can have bacterial pneumonia and viral pneumonia. Pneumonia isn’t it’s own bacteria or virus anon.

>>11536339
Sorry, the opposite, those who did not survive had extremely high levels.

>>11536339
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30566-3/fulltext

Figure 2, 4chan insists the image is corrupted.

High iron is bad if you get Corona? My mum has hemochromatosis which means she produces excess iron so is she at risk?

>>11536126

these are good articles for those curious

>>11536379
thanks, this is interesting corroboration of OP's study, right?

>the virus dislodges the Iron attached to hemoglobin (therefore freeing it to be picked up on the Serum Ferritin test)

Iron in the center of the porphyrin

>>11536126
>Be French
>hate Raoult and his "methods"
>wonder what /sci/ think about him
>no thread about HCQ or chloroquine Jesus
>it's over on /x/
Never change 4chan, never change.

>>11534349
SO smoking is good in this instance if peer-review correct?
>A HANDHSAKE OF CO

>>11534349
>it s also in myoglobin
No
It's OURoglobin now

>>11536287
So people with anaemia at risk?

>>11536399
Conversely if you have low iron should you compensate with iron supplements?

>>11536455
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4r4OfO0GDI

>IRONMAN
>LEAD US TO THE PROMISED LAND

>>11537076
dissnance

>>11534349
Bump

So the guys over at /pol/ saying that the illuminati were releasing a virus to cull RH+ people were right all along?

>>11537102
>Conversely if you have low iron should you compensate with iron supplements?
Not sure, but I've heard iron supplements worsen the situation.

Does this help or hinder the idea of treating it?

>>11536379
I asked my wife about this and she said that if there was free iron, wouldn't they be exhibiting iron toxicity. I see the Figure 2 shows elevated serum ferritin. Would iron toxicity play a role here? would some symptoms be from this in particular?

>>11540243
>I asked my wife about this
pretty beta dude. Are you a simp?

>>11539898
It gives a potential idea of the mechanism and leads to other possible avenues of treatment. Blood transfusions may be needed in extreme cases to help patients recover. But this paper is just all simulation,

I spoke to a medical scientist friend whose activly researching Corona. He says the results of the paper are highly unlikely to be meaningful as the blood poisoning required of the virus would simply not be feasible to induce the worst cases.

>>11534349
>NOT YET PEER REVIEWED
So? The truth is almost never found by voting.

Hm let's see

Hydroxychloroquine
>toxic
>literally an immunosuppressant with antiinflammatory properties
>if it does work (doubtful) it probably only does so in the stage when youre already fucked/having critically inflamed lungs
>no plausible mechanism of action against coronavirus that makes sense and people are scrambling to try to make it make sense

Vs.

Antiretrovirals
>extremely well tolerated and wont fuck your shit up like hydroxychloroquine
>recently shown to bind to coronavirus's RNA polymerases with affinity comparable to its native nucleotides
>would likely work in any stage of infection including prophylaxis
>HIV immunity as a sick bonus

Why the fuck are people latching onto option #1 again?

>>11540649
They want people to die.

>>11540649
It doesn’t treat covid 19 but it can treat the overactive immune response that covid 19 can cause

>>11536302
>I get my science news from twatter

why cant they tell the dumbass lungs to stop making mucus so it doesnt sufficate itself like a dumbfag

>>11536302
>that is a theory ive seen on twitter
So it's wrong. Stop using twitter and YouTube as evidence, poltard.

>>11540649
>>toxic
in high doses, everything is toxic.

>>11536348
>tfw medical bloodletting will make a comeback in your lifetime

>>11540271
>not having a high IQ wife to discuss journals and research with
Yikes

>>11540649
trump gets money for every Hydroxychloroquine sold

>>11541007
>High IQ
>Medicine

>>11541005
Why bloodletting when we have dialysis and ECMO machines?

>>11534349
>Chloroquine works

We know and have known since China gave it to everybody and had 50k+ recoveries. Now why nobody else will do that I dunno orange man bad I guess

>>11541083
Because I want to be treated by a friar wearing a tunic.

>>11535682
confirmed for knowing absolute shit about proteins.

>>11540649
>extremely well tolerated and wont fuck your shit
If you don't mind losing a kidney and significant chunk of liver, sure.

>>11534349
Is considered highly novel?

>>11541240
>KouBooneteys

>>11540751
Why not use IL-6 blocker then?
Im gonna ask my professor as well

>>11538810
I'm wondering the same and everyone dodge this question
sciencelet wnat answers! Is this the great blood culling that was predicted time and time again?

>>11541328
>what is tenofovir alafenamide

>>11540866
Thanks for the insight how is 12th grade going? It clearly means toxic at doses that are therapeutic.

>>11540649
80% of the time you see Hydroxychloroquine work as a Covid treatment it's just the antibiotic prescribed with it doing its job. The chloroquine part does shit all.

>>11540649
Japan is doing clinical trials for Favipiravir.
For some reason it is flying under the radar.
It has had much better results than hydroxycholoquine, no cardiac risks and no side effects.

Yet everyone is waking off hydroxychroloquine due to one retarded frog study that had to be pulled off the net because of how faulty it was. I blame that retard Elon Musk and Trump.

>>11541966
But does Favipiravir stop most of the viral rna polymerase or does it just make it do more mistakes during replication. Because if it's the former, it won't work well for a virus that has a proofreading enzyme

>>11541973
It does both.

>The mechanism of its actions is thought to be related to the selective inhibition of viral RNA-dependent RNA polymerase. Other research suggests that favipiravir induces lethal RNA transversion mutations, producing a nonviable viral phenotype.

>Significant clinical differences have been observed between the 35-patient experimental group treated with Favipiravir and the 45-patient control group treated with Lopinavir / Ritonavir. The medians of the virus clearance time were 4 days (2.5 ~ 9 days) and 11 days (8 ~ 13 days), respectively (P < 0.001); the posttreatment fever-allaying rates within 2 days were 72.41% versus 26.30%; while the chest-imaging improvement rates were 91.43% versus 62.22%. Notably, the adverse reaction rates of Favipiravir-treated patients were merely 11.43%, comparing to a 55.56% in the control group.

>Another clinical trial led by the Zhongnan Hospital (Wuhan, China), with 120 COVID-19 patients recruited in both experimental group (favipiravir) and control group (abidole), also showed that the effectiveness in experimental group was significantly better than that in the control group, which was 71.43% and 55.86%, respectively. The same significant advantage went to the average antipyretic and cough remission time.

>>11541973
Not the poster youre responding to but i think the NRTIs cause chain termination so the chain wouldn't even get to be proofread

>>11541021
>trump owns < $15000 stake in a mutual fund which stock in a generic drug manufacturer
>he gets money for every Hydroxychloroquine sold

>>11542542
>trump owns < $15000 stake in a mutual fund which stock in a generic drug manufacturer
do you have the source that points out the amount?

Does this mean blood transfusions are a effective treatment?

>>11542799
can anyone answer this? first thing that came to my mind too

>>11538810
What's the connection to rh?

>>11542760
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-personal-stake-in-the-malaria-drug-maker-sanofi-could-be-as-small-as-99-2020-04-07

>>11540243
Ask the bull when he comes up for air.

>>11537076
For about one month

/sci/ "yeah no chloroquine is bullshit, bad peer review, etc."

/pol/ "FUCKING YES THEY FOUND THE MIRACEL CURE GUYS"

Once again, /pol/ was proven right.

https://healthitanalytics.com/news/artificial-intelligence-predicts-severe-disease-in-covid-19-patients

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/pstorage-chemrxiv-899408398289/22129965/covid19202000328EN1.pdf

>>11543175
Some guys in other threads agreed, but we can't know for sure unless someone tries.
I guess you'd have to surrogate more blood than the iron release process destroys per hour, so even if it works I don't think it's viable on medium to
large scale.

>>11543897
That's because /pol/ says everything and then only remembers the correct things it said.

>>11543897
Wanna know how I know you are American?

>>11543897
Why Boris Johnson take chloroquine?

>>11534349
this proves that there is no coronavirus instead it is a bacteria. Iron is required for growth by many bacteria, which they take from the host, people with high iron are more likely to get infected.

>>11534349
I think this is a cool idea, but they show literally no actual data. They have no actual kDs, no inhibitory assay. Nothing. I guess this is a fine start, but to me this reeks of all the in silico clows trying to publish/get some noteriety in this panic.
A lot of people in this thread are saying )hydroxy)chloroquine either doesn't work or is a miracle, and i think it's neither of these. Both of these drugs treat COVID-19 by raising the pH of the endosome. Raising the pH makes it so that proteases (specifically cathepsins B/L) cannot cleave the spike protein (S) into its subunits (S1/S2) which is necessary for activation and fusion. Essentially, the chloroquines block one rounte of entry for the virus. HOWEVER, there are proteases one the cell surface (furins/TMPRSS2) that can do the same cleavage which allows the virus to directly unload into the cell. I think this means that the chloroquines are not a long time solution since they would only reduce virus infectivity. This would work for rapid treatment of bad situations, but the virus will mutate and take it's preferred path given enough time.

>>11541377
I think people are trying to get anti-IL-6 antibodies through clinical trials right now as a treatment--this was one of the first things they tired.

It seems a lot of people in this thread don't understand the pathology of the virus. What most doctors are seeing is pneumonia and a co-morbidity of those with blood pressure issues (stem from diabetes, hypertension, obesity, etc). This is two-fold: 1) viral pneumonia occurs since the virus raises the innate immune response to insane levels. It up-regulares pro-inflammatory cytokines (e.g., IL-6) which promote cell killing and accumulation of neutrophils.This, coupled with "abnormally low lymphocyte levels" (which are responsible for the long-term secondary immune response) totally fuck the lungs. Why the lungs? Epithelial lung tissue seems to have the highest expression of ACE2, the primary receptor.

>>11544361
2) It seems like the virus disregulates its binder, ACE2 (angiotensin converting enzyme 2). This enzyme is responsible for converting angiotensin I and II into other angiotensins to control vasodialation and constriction. ACE generates angiotensin I and II to vasoconstrict and ACE2 cleaves those angiotensins to dilate. Now you can imagine that if ACE2 gets fucked up your get big cardiovascular and pulmonary issues. This, coupled with the fact that your lungs are totally fucked from the pneumonia (which by the way makes your heart pump harder to make up for the lack of oxygen) gives you these lethal patholgies.

>>11543897
>Once again, /pol/ was proven right.
Hold on, proven right? With proofs? Do you have a source beside a poll and /pol/?

>>11544361
It works by raising the pH? Shit, the "lemon juice is a miracle cure" mamas were right after all.

bamperoyno

>>11544361
>I think people are trying to get anti-IL-6 antibodies through clinical trials right now as a treatment--this was one of the first things they tired.

You mean to stop patients from dying of Cytokine Storm? I remember reading like 15% actually died due to that, and well its a group that can be saved. But what about the rest? The virus attacks ACE2 on the lungs, and people cant get oxygen to their blood.

I believe the use of Blood substitutes for ICU patients is the best bet for the moment to keep them alive until their bodies fight the thing off.

how the fuck is /pol/ always right

>>11534349
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHH