/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11538252
that second guy of the left, Kino.

>>11538252
these guys look like an SGC team

>>11538285
Looks like he came straight from a tour of Rrrrrhodesia.

>>11538259
What are the technical reasons (if any) for the different aesthetics between US and Soviet/Russian space hardware?

>>11538304
I believe somebody explained it as USSR stuff being derived mostly from naval and submarine vs US stuff being from aeronautic.
Which kind of makes sense if you look at it.

>>11538310
Forgot my pic.

Has any nation made serious designs of pressurized rovers? They’re a bit of a banality in KSP since they drastically increase the mobility of Kerbals and thus the amount of science that can be gathered.

>>11538304
I don't think they are very different honestly, see the Langley lander which is fairly similar to LK. The glass cockpit turned out to be very heavy and was replaced with small windows in all landers, including Apollo. Also, OKB-1 wanted to have simpler failure modes and decided to have separate pressurized compartments for some hardware that required pressurization (electronics), instead of putting it in the habitable volume like Grumman did.

>>11538310
>>11538313
stop spreading this meme, none of it makes sense

>>11538321
>Langley lander
the prototype >>11538249

one of the prototypes they planned was a literal throne of death from KSP aka a 1.5t unpressurized vehicle, which has been considered too limiting and too crazy

>>11538324
>one of the prototypes they planned was a literal throne of death from KSP aka a 1.5t unpressurized vehicle, which has been considered too limiting and too crazy

I’d ride it

Reminds me of the concepts for Lunar surface escape incase the LM shat itself. Imagine riding yourself all the way to orbit on one of these, and having to make it back before your suit ran out of oxygen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_escape_systems

>>11538340
Apollo suit life support allowed for four hours to eight hours

>>11538340
it's crazy just how minimal you can make a spaceship when you don't have to deal with Earth gravity.

>>11538340
Too bad North American didn't get a chance to try their KSP thingy instead of the lunar rover

>>11538340

>>11538320
They're useful for you to go somewhere - and then what? You still either have to EVA to collect samples and whatnot, or use the tools installed outside of the rover, at which point there's little benefit over doing the same through remote controls from safety and comfort of stationary base.

>>11538351
Driving around is cool, and humans are a million times better at doing any sort of scientific investigation than some dumb probe. Insight struggled to drill a little hole I could have dug out in five seconds with a spade.

>>11538351
You can search for desirable landscape features and do quick EVAs with a suitport, without needing an airlock

>>11538357
My favorite robotic explorer exploits are the venera missions to venus where on 11 and 12 the lense caps of the cameras didn‘t come off and then on Venera 14, it did come off, only to roll exactly under the ground probing equipment so all they were testing was lense cap plastic.

>>11538357
Insight is a poor example, it's a Discovery-class probe, aka the cheap and dumb one, designed on a budget to do only one thing. In fact all current probes from Chang'e 3 (which pioneered the proper landing hazard avoidance) to Exomars and Perservance (which have integrated TRN systems) have only the rudimentary autonomy, because the development cycles are too long. Current UGVs can navigate the landscape on Earth at speed already, surely they can do the same on another body in future. Just wait for a rover SLAMming the landscape at 20mph, surveying the proposed manned landing area for possible lava tubes or something else the astronauts might be interested in, and then serving as a beacon for more precise landing.

>>11538399
Never underestimate the complexity. If your lander hatch is stuck, there's not much you can do as a human either. Ed White nearly died to this.

>>11538357
I think the anon you're responding to is comparing pressurized rovers to Apollo-style rovers. Plus teleoperating something with less than a second of delay should be way more efficient than commanding something on Mars from Earth.
That said, yeah, even Steve Squyres (the principal investigator for Spirit and Opportunity) said "What Spirit and Opportunity have done in 5 1/2 years on Mars, you and I could have done in a good week."

>>11538419
>ywn draw a penis on Mars

>>11538465
Sure you will

>>11538465
Drawing dicks on every planet&moon in our solar system would be pure art.

>>11538465
It's a simple dream, dreams are what drives us.
Mine is to put down "Fuck off, we're full" signs on every planetary body in the solar system.

>>11538503
I think it is the meaning of life

>>11538351
Mars Direct had a good reason to have a pressurized manned rover; use it as a lifeboat vehicle in order to drive your crew from the landing site to the base, in the event that the thing landed wildly off target.

>>11538410
>Current UGVs can navigate the landscape on Earth at speed already, surely they can do the same on another body in future.
We already have probes that fly over everything. That's easy as fuck. The trick is figuring out robots that can do fast, effective scientific work, and we're nowhere near that yet.

>>11538238
Contributing

>>11538583
>arabian space program

>>11538600
>arabian space program
I got juuuuust the thing for ya(If anyone's wondering this is footage of Houthi forces targetting Saudi positions)

>>11538609
Oh wait reading that at the end this is when they attacked the Saudi airport

youtube.com/watch?v=KF0foFHuqYQ

Of less interest to nonBritfags but this interview really got me going. A great salesman if nothing else but fuck the future is looking bright.

>>11538538
Wrong. UGVs have a huge amount of scientific and engineering uses. Mapping and sensing of all kinds is the most of actual work, and it can be done with arbitrary precision from the ground, at the cost of the coverage compared to an orbiter. It probably cannot decide which rock to study (or make any other high-level decisions), but that's not needed as long as humans in the loop get the point cloud, let them filter the candidates while the vehicle roams the area. Point is, there's vast amount of room to greatly accelerate the research with the ground vehicles that already exist as prototypes. Having a reliable way to navigate autonomously, you can simply move it from the site to site as well, or deploy instruments in different locations without having to launch another one.

Most of the Moon and Mars are ultimately going to be mapped by robots, whether you like it or not; all realistic progress scenarios converge to them becoming much more useful when the search widens and the amount of data starts to matter more than novelty.

>>11538465
give Australia some time

>>11538238
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/two-employees-of-jeff-bezos-space-venture-blue-origin-test-positive-for-coronavirus.html

>>11538304
Soviets had godawful electronics tech so they couldn't miniaturize as much or as well.

>>11538351
Don't underestimate the psychological need to leave the house. Martians will occasionally just want to go for a drive.

>>11538773
>squidward.jpg

>>11538708
Wonderful, we might have another case of America if Mars's colony starts to get ideas

>>11538719
They're already mapped by robots, that's my point. We can do mapping of arbitrary precision from orbit, especially aroudn objects with no atmosphere. The only places where orbital mapping may not be sufficient are probably Titan and Venus.

this is now a shelbyposting thread

>>11538895
I dOnT wAnT tO LeaVe mY HoUsE BeCAuSe im a bEta MaLe ShuTin wiTh nO fRiEnDs

*dabs*

>>11538359
This design is glorious.
A shame it will never be used.

>>11538979
>ywn drive that around the moon blasting JOHN MADDEN JOHN MADDEN AEIOU on every frequency

>>11538922
>text on flag

https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/fw27xt/spoiler_for_westworld_fans_s03e04_has_a_cameo_of/

>the far future
>still using falcon heavy
what did they mean by this?

>>11538867
Doesn't explain the differences in hardware to do with structures. The simple fact is that Soviet rocket design was more focused on keeping things simple and robust.

>>11539049
It was designed to be built by gopniks.

>>11539049
the simple fact is that two different engineers will approach the same problem different ways. The fact that soviet and US rockets ended up looking so different is down to the fact that they were kept completely separate for their entire design and building phases.

>>11539059
Exactly. In that sense soviet designs were ideal.

>>11539065
I agree. It's fairly obvious given the differences in engine technology, propellant choices, manned spacecraft architecture (small reentry pod attached to additional habitation pod, as opposed to monolithic inhabited capsule), etc.

>>11538935
>They're already mapped by robots
Not the same at all, not even close, not even with MRO/LRO optics and SAR apertures
>We can do mapping of arbitrary precision from orbit, especially aroudn objects with no atmosphere.
Not really, and that's not even taking into the account that most things can't be sensed from orbit
>The only places where orbital mapping may not be sufficient are probably Titan and Venus.
Both are mapped from orbit though, by MESSENGER and Cassini.

Orbital sensing is never a replacement for a location of interest survey on the ground, and vice versa. Ground survey is also very desirable for an astronaut landing site, especially when it involves habitation and not just another flag planting.

>>11539047
Well if they had shown a some huge future starship derived vehicle it would imply that their world is actually interplanetary, which probably ruins whatever limited vision of the future these hacks came up with.

>>11538922
>might
It is the way of civilization. No, "might," about it.

>>11538922
It's inevitable really, what is the point of obeying Earth one way or another once an extraplanetary colony is self-sustaining?

>>11538937
only if you can post new ones

>>11539170
What’s the point of Kentucky obeying DC? Idiot

>>11539196
Not him, but Kentucky isn't 6 month away from DC

>>11538340
>not two but FOUR balls
Yes.

>>11539215
Six months for the Terran fleet to kick your shit in

>>11539232
Propellant is stored in the balls.

>>11539232
>>11539257
lol

>>11539247
>Fusion drive can take you from Earth to Saturn in two weeks.
>Mars fleet reaches Earth in just over a day
>Phobos has been outfitted with an engine, has multiple gun ports on its surface
>12 Km long railgun cucks Earth Fleet

>>11539266
>martian jellybabies think they can win against 1G masterrace.
Keep those resources coming martian cuck and maybe we will stop fucking your woman long enough that they can recover from having a actuall 1G male showing them how it's done.

>>11539215
The west coast was a full year away until the railroads were established.

>>11539266
>A tiny underpopulated world could ever defeat Earth

Lol
Terrans would be Mr. Olympia in comparison to native Martians

>>11539266
COOMER


Porn should be illegal.

>>11538259

I watched Apollo 18 some months ago and I was surprised that I enjoyed it as entertaining trash. In the film, the astronauts discover an abandoned LK which they never knew about (but the ground people seem to have an idea of what's really going on). Then the spooky moon monsters do their thing and the LMP even lifts off in the LK's one-man module for a desperation rendezvous with the CSM (needing one final spacewalk of course) but the two crash into each other and the film ends.

It's just nice to know that the LK was depicted prominently in a feature film, if not used in reality. Seems really light and tippy. I watched some KSP thing suggesting that Gagarin would have been the "CMP" and Leonov the moon-landing CDR, wondering if there was any historical evidence for this proposal or if it's pure headcanon.

>>11539266
>BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP

>>11539355
was that the one with spider moon rocks?

>>11539292
>>11539324

Lol Earthcucks seething.

>Martians can live in 0.3g
>Lunar gravity is 0.5g for them (0.16 for Earthcucks)
>Martians can live anywhere without worry
>Earthcucks need rotating space stations just to gestate their shitty children

So did we ever talk about this?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-outlines-lunar-surface-sustainability-concept
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/a_sustained_lunar_presence_nspc_report4220final.pdf

Pretty exciting.

>>11539399
Also forgot to say, looks like they're really pushing Lunar surface sustained presence forward by several years.

>>11539389
Again with the whore pictures, this is /sci/ you now?
And your jelllybabies would not look like that.

>>11539399
I wonder what company the expended module will come from now that bigelow is gone, and bigelow is the only one so far who made the technology work in space.

>>11539378

Yes, a silly premise and universally panned upon release so I went in with low expectations. An interesting fictional take with a bit more detail than I'd expected.

>>11539406
SNC and Nanoracks both have the capability for expandohabs
SpaceX can also produce 9m habs

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-encouraging-international-support-recovery-use-space-resources/
>Executive Order on Encouraging International Support for the Recovery and Use of Space Resources
>Americans should have the right to engage in commercial exploration, recovery, and use of resources in outer space, consistent with applicable law. Outer space is a legally and physically unique domain of human activity, and the United States does not view it as a global commons. Accordingly, it shall be the policy of the United States to encourage international support for the public and private recovery and use of resources in outer space, consistent with applicable law.

>>11539399
>international module
We're sharing a moon duplex with Ivan? Good to see some things still rise above petty politics.

>>11539406
Pretty sure NASA has full rights to the design.

>>11539424
god fucking bless, pessimists btfo
we're going to be trapped in corporate nightmare hell forever and it's going to be great

>>11539424
>Sec. 2. The Moon Agreement. The United States is not a party to the Moon Agreement. Further, the United States does not consider the Moon Agreement to be an effective or necessary instrument to guide nation states regarding the promotion of commercial participation in the long-term exploration, scientific discovery, and use of the Moon, Mars, or other celestial bodies. Accordingly, the Secretary of State shall object to any attempt by any other state or international organization to treat the Moon Agreement as reflecting or otherwise expressing customary international law.

>>11539417
>SpaceX can also produce 9m habs
Wut?
Since when is spaceX making expanding modules?

>>11539406
>I wonder what company the expended module will come from now that bigelow is gone, and bigelow is the only one so far who made the technology work in space.
Couldn't NASA still just develop it themselves since they have full rights to the design?

>>11539426
>We're sharing a moon duplex with Ivan? Good to see some things still rise above petty politics.
Surprisingly enough, it looks like the Russkies might actually work with us after all. There's actually a lot of stuff that's up in the air. The only thing really off the table is Chinese involvement.

>>11539446
Somebody is overly optimistic about a certain 9m diameter beer can that keeps popping and imploding.

>>11539424
BASED AND REDPILLED

>>11539446
>expanding modules
huh?

>>11539449
>Couldn't NASA still just develop it themselves since they have full rights to the design?
in my opinion nasa should be doing experiments, not building rockets or habs.

>>11539426
>petty politics
I guess I'll have to settle for a "told you so" when they stab you in the back.

>>11539137
>Both are mapped from orbit though, by MESSENGER and Cassini.
But not sufficiently to plan surface exploration in any highly targeted way.

>>11539266
>>Phobos
Is a rubble pile and would come apart if you applied any meaningful amount of thrust, nigger.

>>11539318
The Tsiolkovsky rocket equation did not apply to North America, nor did the speed of light affect the telegraph.

>>11539266
>>11539389
you need to go back

>>11539446
They don't need to expand. Also he probably meant 8 meter modules.

>>11539500
>Eight minutes of lag time

Lol not that significant

>>11539446
Starship/Superheavy has 9m diameter. Launch expendable and dock, like Skylab was made from a Saturn V.

>>11539449
>Surprisingly enough, it looks like the Russkies might actually work with us after all.
Why is this surprising? They offered to work with NASA on Gateway years ago. Literally the only "people" who would be surprised are lemmings who believe CNN.

>>11539324
>>11539196
>>11539247
>>11539170
>>11538922
you guys watch too much sci fi, any mars colony will be de facto independent from the start, it's not like there'll be martian tea plantations that give earth governments a vested interest in having strict control, plus it's impossible to sell imperialism to voters in the 21st century.

>>11539445
soon...

>>11538304
>What are the technical reasons (if any) for the different aesthetics between US and Soviet/Russian space hardware?
Russian/Soviet defence and aerospace was about reliability and brutal robustness. In the West the runways are regularly swept. Russians do not care and need not care. Everything is as simple as possible and uses as few parts as possible and thus there are fewer parts that can go wrong and you end up with impressive reliability.
Skylab fell out of the sky.
Mir had to be taken down.

found this image lying about

>>11539445
>>11539424
I don't speak legalese. Does that basically say the (US-controlled) interplanetary megacorps are free to perform whatever jewish activities they want in space and anyone with complaints can shove it?

>>11539610
not WHATEVER they want, but essentially, yes
an executive order isn't law, though

>>11539578
>A colony dependent on imports for many years is de facto independent

>>11539617
Commercialism is the only way for us to get sci-fi Space colonies. It’s that simple, so they should be given lots of reign.

>>11539578
>plus it's impossible to sell imperialism to voters in the 21st century

Meanwhile, in the real world...

>>11539624
That is where Psyche comes in. The US has everything to gain from it, China has everything to lose. The rare earth and the noble metal markets would crater.

>>11539607
Shopped, here's the original

>>11539639
>The rare earth and the noble metal markets would crater
rare earths aren't rare, fuck

>>11539639
>The rare earth and the noble metal markets would crater.
Earth resources are for use on Earth, space resources are for use in space. Getting them both up there and down here is prohibitively expensive.

>>11539659
It takes more delta/v to orbit earth than it takes to go from LEO to the surface of Mars

>>11539607
>prööt :DD

>>11539639
the fact that you think we need psyche to do that shows how you know absolutely fucking nothing about anything your retarded ass is saying

>>11539610
the important parts:
>Successful long-term exploration and scientific discovery of the Moon, Mars, and other celestial bodies will require partnership with commercial entities to recover and use resources, including water and certain minerals, in outer space.
>The United States is not a party to the Moon Agreement.
>The Secretary of State... shall take all appropriate actions to encourage international support for the public and private recovery and use of resources in outer space...
>...the Secretary of State shall seek to negotiate joint statements and bilateral and multilateral arrangements with foreign states regarding safe and sustainable operations for the public and private recovery and use of space resources.
basically saying that ISRU is necessary for long-term space exploration and the US is ok with that.

>>11539646
Shopped too, here is the real fakenews

>>11539591
>skylab fell out of the sky
It experienced orbital decay due to atmospheric drag and reentered because a launch vehicle capable of a boosting mission wasn't available. Had nothing to do with its reliability.
>there are fewer parts that can go wrong
Unless it's the N-1.

>>11539610
The Moon Treaty (there the Moon Agreement) tried to force lunar resources and technology to be shared among everyone.
The executive order is saying that if you develop technology and find and mine resources in space, you can keep it and the revenues.

>>11539728
I miss ITS bros

>>11539733
>replying to it

>>11539742
Carbon composites are a giant meme

>>11539739
>The Moon Treaty (there the Moon Agreement) tried to force lunar resources and technology to be shared among everyone.

No countries with manned space flight programs ever signed it its a meme no one cares about

>>11539669
Getting things down is not just a matter of delta V, dude

>>11539774
cringe but also based

>>11539759
I know but it looked so kino

>>11539728
Is that a water tower taking off in the background?

>>11539650
>rare earths aren't rare
I never said that. Refining them on earth is a huge problem, that is what you avoid by starting with close to pure metal and all the gunk will remain in space. Today China controls REE since they are perfectly happy to make a horrific mess in their own back yard.

>>11539659
>down here is prohibitively expensive
Not if you transfer the refined metals first as wide thin metallic solar sails and glide them down the gravity well.

https://twitter.com/boeingspace/status/1247279990242250753
BOEING SHILLS ARE SEETHING

>>11539880
HAPPENING

>>11539880
OHNONONONONONONONO

>>11539880
Holly shit, on the one side, good that somebody held his foot down on this, on the other side, boeing will just use this to leech of more taxmoney.
And this probably also means spaceX will win the commercial flight race if they dont fuck it up by blowing up another dragon 2.

>>11539880
Anything else would‘ve been an absolute mockery.

>>11539880
Boing!

>>11539880

>>11539973
>on the other side, boeing will just use this to leech of more taxmoney.
I thought that this launch will be out of their pocket?

>>11540000
>Boeing
>doing anything for free
Lmfoa

>>11539607
that would explain the fact that every starship exploded so far

>>11539880
They better not be getting fucking paid by NASA for this but somehow I know they will be.

>>11540000
Boeing will get a massive bailout in the near future (my opinion)
So even if they pay it out of their own pocket, that pocket will be filled back up with tax money anyway.

>>11540000
>Flying another uncrewed flight will allow us to complete all flight test objectives and evaluate the performance of the second Starliner vehicle at no cost to the taxpayer.
That's at least the official story.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2020-04-06-Boeing-Statement-on-Starliners-Next-Flight

>>11539880
Here's an image of boeing's namesake "starline"

>>11539618
de facto independent in that their overlords don't have anything to gain by enforcing their authority, and so have no reason to do so.
>>11539634
bombing arabs you have nothing in common with is very different from bombing middle class anglos

>>11540051
That's a snowline, Anon.

>>11540051
>ywn enjoy a nice line of lunar cocaine with the bros during a full earth
Why live?

>>11540082
>in that their overlords don't have anything to gain by enforcing their authority, and so have no reason to do so

These people enforce their authority in many cases just to prove that they are the authority.

>>11539183
So you are saying Shelby memes are expendable?

>>11539880
>We’ve decided
Who wants to bet it's part of thier 60 billion dollar bailout? I wouldn't be surprised if at this point even brought congressmen want proof Boeing can still make something that works.

>>11540134
Yes you will you doomer faggot

>>11539183
Do we even have a Shelby meme d*pot?

>>11539578
Mars will be an American state and thus the 10th Amendment will leave it largely sovereign within itself.

>>11540134
>>11540188
What would be special about lunar cocaine? That trace amounts of Helium 3 spicing it up?

>>11539880
And he does it for free

>>11540347
Cultivation and production in a stable environment without fear of interference from the law. Moon coke would be plentiful and extremely high quality.

>>11539880
Expected.

>failed parachute
>failed engine ignition timing
>failed communication with vehicle
>failed proper orbital insertion
>failed ejection of lower part
>failed to dock with ISS

>>11540418
Boing will leave tools in the propellant tanks.

>>11540418
Gotta imagine the profit margins when they can just eat a 200 million dollar test no biggie

>>11540436
Kek implying boing won't be getting paid by NASA for it or else through some other congressional appropriation boondoggle.

>>11540444
I love most how Boeing thinks deadlines are optional and no one at NASA gives a shit either
Hell nasa makes stuff worse by imposing design changes late in the project

>>11539788
Starhopper maybe

>>11540376
>implying that the Space Drug Enforcement Agency (SDEA) won't kick down the door to your lunar cave den and shoot your cyber-dog

>>11540608
That's why you magnetize the doors. Their boots stick to it and they stay there until they run out of O2.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1247340041552068609
Elon posted a couple landing clips. This one's crazy.

>>11540646
>Falcon 9's reaction when landing

>>11540646
webm

>>11540684
jesus fucking christ

>>11540684
Isn't Starship's descent profile similar to this albeit in a larger scale? Can't imagine how that will look like.

>>11540684
Wurg

Hah ha HA! He finally released it!
https://twitter.com/johnkrausphotos/status/1247333871345156097

Someone found and uploaded a recording of NASA's broadcast feed for STS-51L.

https://youtu.be/rUqPMMgfJ4Q

Brutal. CNN's recording ends much sooner, and didn't show debris falling into the water.

>>11540701
It's even wackier due to the way the fins work, and it decelerates to land at the last possible second. It will be a helluva sight and sound, imagine being inside one while it touches down.

SLS with worm logo, yea or nay?

>>11540703
That descent was way faster than I thought it'd be.

>>11540714
>SLS
nay on all fronts

>>11540740
It's sped up.

>>11540684
Dang look at how long it continued to slide after touch down.

>>11539880
kek

>>11540684

>>11539795
Rare earth's don't get concentrated. Refining them on Earth is expensive because you need to process a lot of minerals. Rare earth's won't be concentrated inside metal rich asteroids because metal rich asteroids form from partially differentiated objects that get smashed up that had their metal sink to the middle, something that doesn't happen to rare earths.
Basically, metal rich asteroids will have lots of iron and nickel. Rare earths will be most common on stony asteroids, in about as much concentration as on Earth.

>>11540714
nyaa

>>11540684
>You now remember the narrow leg base that Starship will have

>>11540706
reminder that one day spacex will suffer a similar disaster. it will be the first of many.

>>11540684
What launch was this?

>>11540873
Says so right in the filename. BulgariaSat-1.

>>11540851
Hi Jeff, nice to meet you.

>>11540851
Sup jeff

>>11540714
Just duct tape a taxpayer where the logo should be

>>11540851
Jeff pls, shouldn't you be spending more time telling WaPo to stop lying about the people you're asking for $10 billion AWS contracts?

>>11540851
It's almost inevitable, but hopefully by then the fleet will be more analogous to air travel, so people accept accidents because the future has a trajectory for improvement instead of being hopeless.

There were 5 spaceworthy shuttles, then 4, then 3. A flawed design was aging and it was the only thing we had. The next accident would come sooner than the last. If we had 3 deteriorating passenger planes to fly people across the pacific the ending would be obvious.

So build a lot more starships, and constantly improve the design. So when one blows up it's not instantly a double digit failure rate for the vehicle and the flaw that killed the crew may have been out of production for years.

>>11540844
Bigger vehicle plus never going to be landing on a barge

Can a non-US citizen apply to be a Mars colonist?

>>11540904
I don‘t understand this reusable taxpayer meme...

>>11540942
Based on the ISS and Lunar Gateway, only if you're Canadian, European, Russian, or Japanese. All other applications must be filled out in person by an astronaut from your country's manned spaceflight program at our lunar surface office.

>>11541036
Damn. Well, there goes my chance to try and do something important

>>11540646
>>11540684
Dam son.

>>11540942
i think most people will be allowed to go, but only american citizens will legally be considered colonists, everyone else will just have a temporary visa

>>11541163
It won't be muh American state, it will be company towns.

>>11540134
Feels bad man

>>11541178
>it will be company towns.
This. It will most likely be a Cyberpunk Bladerunner or/The Expanse thing where corporations horde in thousands upon thousands of cheap workers to extract what we need from the other planets or asteroids

>>11539880
>Boeing
That jet liner company with 100s of failures that kills 10,000s of people when the jets crash? They are trying to do space shit now? What fucking losers. They need to get their fucking shit together with air liners first.

>>11540844
I don't think they'll be landing it on a wet-deck drone ship in the ocean.

>>11540942
Honestly, I think that without interference from the US gov, SpaceX will be happy to provide services for a Japanese/German/French/Gabonese colony as long as they're paying. The "without interference from the US gov" part is absolutely not guaranteed though

HAPPENING

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1659601384

>>11541396
>perpetuating a meme from a year ago about a tweet from over 10 years ago

>>11541389
Even with US meddling I doubt they would disallow foreign workers/colonists like they own Mars

>being this desperate for attention

>>11541412
>who are you quoting

>it looks worse with every iteration

>>11541501
Those legs are looking mighty wimpy. Guessing they're running out of weight budget as they add strengthening to it.

>>11541511
they definitely don't look like they leave a lot of room for error

>>11541501
Final version will better than prototype version for sure

>>11541501
Doesnt look scfi enough.

>>11541501
1>3>4>5>2

>>11541522
That definitely looks like a buttplug.

>>11541501
I mean any one of these look beautiful I don't know what you're on about

>>11540851
Dragon has an escape system.
I'm more worried about Starship doing a Columbia over Texas and causing the media to freak out about it even though it was unmanned.

>>11541522
That's an IUD

>>11541501
The end one looks by far the best as it is the only one that ever actually existed.

Aesthetically you just can't top those fin legs however.

>>11540684
Blues Brother, rocket edition.

Long Live OldSpace

Death to NewSpace

>>11541588
Most of its time, Starship will be uncrewed and autonomous, so less likely people died on SS than Space Shuttle.

>>11541619
yeah but such an accident would cause the public to freak the fuck out

>>11541622
that only mattered because NASA is a government program. SpaceX can afford to blow up a few prototypes and even if the general public thinks it's dangerous, everyone who matters knows what the deal is.

>>11541634
if it falls on Texas people are going to be having aneurysms even if there was zero property damage and zero injuries

>>11539424
>>11539445
trump sucks at everything but space. he's the best president we've had for space since kennedy.

>>11541622
SpaceX is a private company and even the public influence on Congress and the Senate is too minimal to impact on the influence of better informed pro Space power players.

>>11541638
agreed, and the best thing that Kennedy did for space was get shot

>>11541636
that's why Boca Chica is on the coast, anon. They're not going to launch an experimental rocket over land.

>>11541642
so you're saying pence would be an even better president for space?

>>11541645
Columbia. The debris field from the Columbia reentry break-up fell on farms in Texas.
>>11541646
No, nobody likes Trump so even if they shot him it wouldn't cause people to respect the Artemis program.

>https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1H1x8jZs8vfjy60TvKgpbYs_grargieVw&ll=39.450104209580914%2C-100.05755104072995&z=4
>https://fcc.report/IBFS/SES-STA-INTR2020-00778/2252508

Starlink gateway locations/coverage here. Basically the entire continental US. Pacific NW getting lots of love with initial gateway coverage.

>https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1H1x8jZs8vfjy60TvKgpbYs_grargieVw&ll=39.450104209580914%2C-100.05755104072995&z=4
>https://fcc.report/IBFS/SES-STA-INTR2020-00778/2252508

Starlink gateway locations/coverage here. Basically the entire continental US. Pacific NW getting lots of love with initial gateway coverage.

second try: aspect ratio was messed up

>>11541653
why delet

>>11541649
Why does Columbia have anything to do with Starship. Starship lands vertically it doesn't need to cross as much of the US to get to land on certain runways.

>>11541661

>>11541666
Starship and the shuttle will both do hypersonic reentry the exact same way with similar profiles, except that Starship will be bigger
and if they EVER fail a reentry, it's going to litter debris all over Texas, and people are going to freak the fuck out

>>11541669
15 miles off Texas in Gulf of Mexico near a town with nobody.

>>11541661
I live in WA, would it be worth it to sign up? It's cloudy here like 60% of the year...

>>11541675
If you're in rural/town area, I'd absolutely sign up if the price is right or if you simply like SpaceX, hate your current provider, want to support Mars mission, want to try new tech, etc.

So Starlink is going to be direct to customers and not just supporting existing ISPs?

I'd love to help fund SpaceX.

>>11541682
It will probably be combination. There will be direct sales to customers but they may be require partnership with ISP for other countries/situations by law or economics situation.

>>11541671
the hottest and hardest part of reentry is much earlier than that, I'm not talking about final touchdown here

there's going to be a year long waitlist to get starlink

>>11541687
I'm pretty sure it will fly over Gulf of Mexico for landing not inland Texas, as that's illegal. The whole reason for choosing Boca and not Houston or New York City is because of the Gulf of Mexico nearby.

>>11541692
As fast as they can produce/ship out their receivers.

>>11541694
it comes in from the west on reentry, anon
this was one of the predicted ground tracks for STS-121

>>11538708
Nice to hear a shout out to Surrey Satellites. Did some work for their remote sensing subsidiary a while back

>>11541702
Different flight profile

>>11541717
all reentries come in from the west
the hottest and hardest part of reentry will be over land
if a starship fails reentry (not landing) then it's going to drop debris on land and people are going to flip

>>11541720
F9 @ Florida doesn't go over land. Its all ocean aside from land seen from initial launch site.

>https://youtu.be/1KmBDCiL7MU?t=862

>>11541735
the booster (super heavy) is obviously going to land on a drone ship or back at the pad after launch. Starship is an upper stage and will have to land from various different trajectories after completing its mission, potentially decelerating over the continental US.

>>11541501
4 > 1 > 3 > 5 > 2

>>11541684
This, not to mention the "customers" part might be more restrictive, probably focused on companies and government, i doubt that Starlink will be available to any person at the start

>>11541735
Yes, that's because F9 is a first stage
Super Heavy, the first stage of the Starship launch system, will land back at the launch site and basically behave exactly like a giant F9
Starship, the upper stage, will always come in from the west exactly like every other reentry vehicle since Vostok

>>11541744
Pretty sure they mentioned reentry over at the Gulf of Mexico at some point, some anon even bothered drawing the sonic boom reach over a Gulf of Mexico map

>>11541790
no, the sonic boom over the gulf map was drawn by SpaceX themselves in their draft environmental proposal

excuse me while I go find that image

>>11541790
>>11541794

>>11541514
To be fair, Starship doesn't really have any room for error at all, not when you perform your landing burn so late with such a large vehicle.

>>11538238
Space is not only fake, but also gay
If you want to explore it just build an underground pool and turn off the lights like nasa does
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLuDoTG7Vz8

>>11539591
Skylab's computer was still running despite being multiple times past its design life. Skylab itself could still function. It only deorbited because of higher-than-expected solar activity.
Do not understate the reliability of NASA's hardware. They've arguably got a better track record than the Soviets do.

>>11539739
No. It's directing the Department of State to pursue making that legal by garnering international support for a new treaty.

>>11541805
I'm sure that the first landings of Starship would be done with a significant margin for error to until the design is worked out.

>>11541847
Maybe, I'm not sure how much margin there could be since it seems to kick on the engines again only maybe 350m above the ground and only cuts most of it's 60-70m/s velocity in the last 100m, still being slanted at a significant angle until it's actually directly over the pad.

>>11541501
3 a best

>>11541841
It says that the moon is not a global commons like the open ocean or Antartica so it is perfectly legal to make claims upon it. Treaties aren't actually enforceable. The state department doesn't need to do anything cause the US didn't sign the moon treaty.

>>11541841
It’s already legal.

Have there been any proposals or designs for remote-controlled boats or submersibles to investigate Titan’s lakes?

is there any sort of software company I could make and contract out to big space or do they pretty much always do that stuff in house? my cunt has no space program to speak of and I'll never be able to get around ITAR restrictions so this is my only option to work in the industry

>>11541925
Never seen one committed to a full study, there wouldn't be much of a point right now because nobody's built a vehicle to carry that kind of large payload out there and then perform the orbital maneuvering to get it to LTO to be deployed.

>>11541932
Wouldn’t have to be that heavy, would it? Huygens probe was 319kg and it landed on Titan’s surface.

I was thinking a probe that consists of a sort of buoy that floats on the surface containing an antenna, RTG, and various sensors with a submersible tethered to it with an umbilical that can investigate below-surface conditions and ideally the lakebed.

>>11541925
I don't even know how you begin to build a submersible to dive into a lake of liquid methane

>>11541968
keeping warm is easier than keeping cool, so start with a really big nuclear reactor

>>11541968
Same way you dive into water, by filling and emptying ballast tanks. A really important factor is the density of the liquid which I don’t know

>>11542002
liquid methane is significantly less dense than water

>>11541982
RHUs have been used to provide heat in outer solar system probes

>>11542007
A little under half, about 420kg/m3.

where are the schizos going to move the goalposts to when consumer space access is cheap

>>11541501
Looks better actually.

>>11542240
What are you talking about exactly?

>>11542245
SpaceX says they want to achieve costs to orbit below $5 million per launch with Starship. His question is where naysayers will move the goalposts to if/when this happens.

>>11542240
if he doesn't hit his reusability target like he hasn't with F9

>>11542262
If so then it would probably go in this order.
>there's no way it's that cheap! SpaceX is just taking on a loss to try to kill it's competitors
>even if it is that cheap, it's a clear sign of low quality and no one will trust their payloads to Starship
>the low cost and high launch rate means that SpaceX is using up payloads faster than they are generated. soon we will see the market dry up and SpaceX will suffer for it
That's assuming Starship+Superheavy reaches $5M per launch. What will most likely happen is that SpaceX will not reach that goal, and naysayers will latch on to that as a sign that SpaceX has failed while ignoring that the launch system is still among the cheapest flying.

>>11542240
>space jerbs ruin earth ecconomy!!

>>11542288
This sounds accurate.
>Admissions and qualifications requirements exist
>"Space mining is racist! Now you have to be a qualified professional to be a miner, and the system discriminates against minorities!"

>>11542244
What are the chances starship could gently taper near the bottom?

>>11541804
So every time it lands almost 1/3rd the surface area of a state is instantly notified of this chad's arrival?

>>11542302
zero
Super Heavy might gently expand near the bottom

>>11542310
orange will set off car alarms
yellow will wake people up
green people will notice
cyan is going to make dogs bark
blue you need to be listening for it

>>11542314
Imagine if SpaceX reaches regular launches to the point where people use them as alarm clocks.

>>11541501
It was better when it was fatter on the left

launch tower escape ziplines:
https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1247586196064272386

>>11541501
The steel starships look the worst because the nordic retard that rendered them made them wrinkly for no fucking reason

>>11542456
no, the design just looks worse. It looks like something a child would make out of cardboard with the shape of the wings and the tiny, dumb legs.

>>11542397
>weeeeeeeeeeee

>>11541178
>It won't be muh American state
Mars will be a territory almost immediately, and a state as soon as it meets the Constitutional population threshold.

>>11542456
>made them wrinkly for no fucking reason
>implying that isn't genuinely how they look

>>11542397
I just can't get over how LEGO/Playmobil the SpaceX suits look.

>>11541661
Ya think?

>>11542541
Looks a lot less impressive if you map by population, but when did Trumpkins ever care for honesty?

>>11542567
Honesty has nothing to do with it. The map spells out quite clearly that urban groupthink results in Democrat votes.

>>11542567
>population
There is still a lot of people in the red area. Urbanite faggots always like to ignore the suburbs and the countryside, then they get so surprised when they loose the election.

>>11542473
> Caring more about looks than utility
ngmi

>>11542580
It's not like they only lie about people in red areas - they lie to the people in the blue areas, too, and at a much larger scale.

>>11542585
obviously sacrificing aesthetics is preferable to getting it working sooner, but I'm still disappointed by how ugly it's getting

>>11542580
>There is still a lot of people in the red area

Only 55.7% of eligible voters voted at all in 2016, and Orange Retard lost the popular vote anyway, so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Mapped by population, there’s a lot more “blue” than “red”. Pretending squares of empty land are on your side is kindergarten-tier.

>>11542576
>The map spells out quite clearly that urban groupthink results in Democrat votes.

Nope.

>>11542627
wew lad.

>>11542653
Cringe

>>11542624
>small towns
>empty land
What urbanite faggots like you don't understand is that the people in the countryside still matter, it isn't just empty wilderness. It's actual small towns and whatnot. Urbanite faggots forget the only reason the union exists is because of the electoral college. Without it, the people in the states in the middle of the country have no representation, and thus, the union dissolves.
>popular vote
Since when has american elections been decided by popular vote?

>>11542675
>has
fuck meant to say have

>>11542675
Electoral college is dumb and does nothing but give underpopulated polities unjustified, unearned, and inordinate amounts of political power they simply do not deserve. Cry more hick.

>>11542696
no you, urbanite

>>11542696
tyranny of the majority would cancel all space programs, anon

>>11542696
Retard, i'm not even american and i understand why this system in america is needed.
And it's also hilarious that dem's have praised this system in the past but now that it's working against them they are trying to destroy it.

>>11542505
Cringe, no it won't.

>>11542696
>Electoral college is dumb
Without the electoral college, less populated states have no representation. Why should a few cities control the entire nation? Honestly if we dissolve the electoral college, we might as well just break america into a bunch of smaller nations, like in Europe.

Look at all these contrarian thespians. Truly, the intellects of our time.

>>11542718
>Without the electoral college, less populated states have no representation

Wrong. They have the representation of the votes of every individual living in the state that decides to vote, which is all that they deserve. No other democracy has a retarded “electoral college” that grossly inflates the political relevance of states where barely anyone lives.

>>11542724
We live in a Republic, which is a representative government, because literally no state with a smaller capita than the largest states and districts has any incentive to participate if they want their interests stated and heard by their government.

What are the lowest tech fusion drives possible?

>>11542724
if we could ensure politicians would actually work in the best interest of the people they represent without relying on people to vote them in, we would. The point of an election is not to sincerely ask the population what they think is best. People are stupid. The point is to ensure that politicians have to answer to the populace because they're inherently corruptible. Public opinion has exactly nothing to do with it.

>>11542716
>Retard, i'm not even american and i understand why this system in america is needed

It isn’t needed. There is no reason to give underpopulated states any more political power than is warranted by their population. Every vote for one candidate in a state should go towards the total amount of people who voted for that candidate, and every vote for the other candidate in that state should go towards the total amount of people who voted for the other candidate. Whoever wins the most votes across the country should become the president. That’s how democracy works.

>And it's also hilarious that dem's have praised this system in the past but now that it's working against them they are trying to destroy it.

I’ve never praised the electoral college in my life, since it’s an obviously Undemocratic institution.

>>11542696
I live in a tiny country of barely 5 million people and even we need to have weighted voting so that the cities don't completely overrun the districts.
So no, it's not "dumb". It's a safety valve so two cities can't control the entirety of my country, exactly the same way that two cities can't control the entirety of the US.

>>11542724
>No other democracy
Good thing we are a republican federation, faggot. Again, why should some urbanites rule over people thousands of miles away with a completely different lifestyle and culture. The only reason america is so big for a "democracy" is because we have the electoral college. Without it, america would of been split into multiple smaller nations, like Europe.

>>11542733
>There is no reason to give underpopulated states any more political power than is warranted by their population.
Because their interests are real and valid too, and the purpose of Government isn't to award power to people to use as they please. The purpose of Government is to govern the people as is needed to let them exercise their individual liberties.

Once again, we are not a Democracy.

>>11542733
>I’ve never praised the electoral college in my life, since it’s an obviously Undemocratic institution.
wasnt talking about you retard, clearly says "dem's" in my post.
Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.

>>11542725
>We live in a Republic, which is a representative government,

Wrong. All “republic” actually means is that a country doesn’t have monarchs.

> because literally no state with a smaller capita than the largest states and districts has any incentive to participate if they want their interests stated and heard by their government.

States aren’t people nor do people in states vote monolithically. Counting votes directly is the only democratic way to decide the president and avoid giving smaller polities undeserved political power.

>>11542734
>I live in a tiny country of barely 5 million people and even we need to have weighted voting so that the cities don't completely overrun the districts.

The cities should completely overrun the districts.

>>11542735
>Again, why should some urbanites rule over people thousands of miles away with a completely different lifestyle and culture

Why should hicks be given grossly inflated political power so they can rule over a much larger population of “urbanites” with a completely different lifestyle and culture?

> The only reason america is so big for a "democracy" is because we have the electoral college.

Nope. States would still have much autonomy even if the electoral college did not exist.

>>11542743
>Counting votes directly is the only democratic way to decide the president and avoid giving smaller polities undeserved political power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._10
educate yourself please

>>11542746
Why? That's not where we produce stuff of value in my country. That's where it ends up, but not where it's produced. Why the fuck should the producers of wealth carry a shitload of literal welfare clients just because they decided to cluster together?

You see, we don't live in a democracy either. We live in a representative parliamentary democracy. Close, but not really.

>>11542741
>Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.

Please stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.

Where are the mods when we need them to ban this faggot who is still buthurt almost 4 years later that hillary lost and therefore needs to shit up a space exploration thread of all threads.

>/sfg/ Space Flight General

>>11542748
>Why should hicks be given grossly inflated political power so they can rule over a much larger population of “urbanites” with a completely different lifestyle and culture?
First of all, everybody who doesn't live in a city isn't a hick. The country right now is quite balanced in terms of elections between the cities and the countryside. The so called "grossly inflated political power" is simply all states getting equal representation.
>Nope. States would still have much autonomy even if the electoral college did not exist.
States would have autonomy, but they'd have litle to no power over presidential elections or national politics. Thus, they'd have no reason to stay in this system.

Finally, it's over.

>>11542759
Why does this rent free retard get to keep his political post up

Exceedingly based.

>>11542784
this really does sound like something a 7 year old would say

Has Elon Musk ever even talked about NTRs?

>>11542791
Found the Chinese agent.

>>11542794
Elon has mentioned using nuclear rocketry before, but the topic went quiet when the scope of the regulatory hurdles became clear.

>>11542794
I don't believe so

To get back on track, how likely is it now that Dragon2 will bring astronauts to ISS before starliner now that boeing has to do a second test?

>>11542794
Yes, it's his favourite doujin genre.

>>11542794
Actually he has, https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1153378777893888005?lang=en..

>>11542794
No, but he has mentioned aerospikes, and what I guess is his attitude towards experimental/unproven engines. basically "if someone else is willing to prove [experimental engines] are better than what we have, SpaceX will definitely switch"

>>11542796
I assume there’s lots of red tape around acquiring fissile material and also throwing it up into space.
Uranium mines on Mars when?

>>11542800
If all goes according to plan, SpaceX will bring the first NASA crew to space in May. Boeing isn't scheduled to refly their test until August or so.

>>11542809
The regulatory hurdles involve refining and handling radiological materials.

>>11542810
>If all goes according to plan
If they don't blow up another pod.

>>11542816
Exploding problem fixed, boeings problems not fixed

>>11542816
The last one was in salt water, and they've redesigned the failed systems with NASA oversight since then, so I expect that they're probably in good shape on that front.

>>11542808
That’s a good attitude, I suppose.

>>11542816
I don't think there's any opportunity for them to blow up a pod before the crewed launch

VASIMRs would be interesting, but they require a shit ton of power that probably necessitates nuclear reactors.

>>11542821
ANON NO

>>11542580
Suburbs, as well as exurbs, are by definition urban areas. Urbanization was at 80% as of the last Census, and had likely increased since then.

wasn't an explosion in a military facility near moscow last summer in russia not related to a NTR powered weapons platform?

>>11542835
Yes, but it’s for an air-breathing ICBM similar to the SLAM project the US developed in the Cold War.

>>11542841
>SLAM project
What a monster, why do the slavs need that?
Dont they already have enough ICBM's?

>>11542829
Nuclear reactors too heavy for vasimir for the 9999999th time, please read about this shit before posting.

>>11542311
A flared base is safer

>>11542849

They are deathly afraid that their ICBM's will be intercepted by American ABM missiles and want garantueed first and second strike abilities. They rely so much on their nuclear arsenal because they are outmatched on the conventional front of warfare both in numbers and quality of weaponry.

>>11542867
>intercepted by American ABM missiles
isnt that the whole reason why they have so many nuclear subs?
To be close enough that ABM doesnt work.

>>11542849
I have no idea. Russia is an insane third world dictatorship wearing a goofy hat with the words “Developed nation” stabled on.

>>11542853
What do you mean by “too heavy”? What’s considered an acceptable thrust-to-weight ratio?

>>11541926
What do you mean by big space and what type of app do you want to develop or have skills in? Since you apparently don't know and have to ask, with the best will in the world you're going to struggle to compete against people that are multiskilled for example skilled devs with a degree in astrophysics (I've worked with a couple)/mech eng/spacecraft design/EE/etc. Plenty of people with multiple degrees up to and beyond PhDs in the space industry. One guy I worked with designing satcoms terminals had two PhDs.

>>11542755
I accept your consession.

>>11541594

IUD, SLS, stay in school, 'cos it's the best
IUD, SLS, stay in school, 'cos it's the best

>>11542889
Just go watch one of zubrins many vasimir rants on YouTube rather than making /sfg/ explain it for the gorillion the time.

>>11542794
nuke mars

>>11542895
>What do you mean by big space
nasa, spacex, blue, ULA
>what type of app do you want to develop or have skills in
No idea, I'm currently working for a defence contractor doing low level programming (aerospace / other control systems), I'm an SE and plan to get my license and want to work towards becoming something along the lines of project lead or at least high on the design chain. At that point I figure I might have a shot at starting my own thing and trying to work for the space industry

>>11542872
Most of the subs chill in the Arctic.
SLBM ranges have increased to the point where there is no need to approach the enemy's coast, and ICBMs have minimum ranges so getting too close wouldn't even be desirable.
Long range cruise missiles/glide vehicles are the general counter to ABM.

>>11542816
They had another test of the explody bits and they performed as advertised in flight.

>>11542867
Look up how many ABMs America has, now look up their interception rate. ABM is a joke, Israel can't even reliably intercept nigger rigged bottle rockets with the world's most advanced interception system that the American taxpayer forked out billions and billions for.

>>11543067
Not to claim that interception is perfect, but you're conflating problems of different scales. Intercepting many small targets at low altitude and range is in many ways a harder problem than one big glowy boy.

>>11542867
>garantueed


Jesus Christ...

>>11538304
The Soviets liked sphere/hemisphere shapes because they are the simplest shape for a pressure vessel and they had difficulties manufacturing large cylindrical pressure vessels.

Look at the Apollo LM pressure vessel (pic related) and notice how much more complex it is compared to the Soviet LK lander.
It's also why the N1 rocket had such an inefficient and unusual tapered shape. If you look at a cutaway drawing the tanks are all spherical instead of cylindrical.

Here's one solution to SpaceX landing pad on Moon.

>>11543078

English is my third language.

>>11543067

Because of how vital nukes are for Russian defense, the Russian MoD cannot leave anything up to chance in this aspect and assume worst case scenario in wich the US is able to intercept their ICBM's. If the US has 50 ABM's, then the Ru MoD planners have to assume that those 50 will intercept 50 ICBM's and due to the nature of those missiles having a MIRV system, that means you could lose up to 500 warheads.

>>11542872

Russian subs are loud compared to their NATO counterparts. Also, NATO has the SOSUS network to detect Russian subs entering the Atlantic. It forced the Russians to employ the Bastion doctrine and keep their subs close to home where they could be protected. This limits their attack vectors.

Russia is at a clear disadvantage in this aspect and thus, needs SLAM-tier weaponry.

>>11542794
>Japanese acronym for Netorare, used to define a genre of Eroge (Hentai Game), meaning "Cuckold". In short, the main protagonist's loved one(s) are taken or seduced away from him and the heroine might be willing or unwilling.

>>11543126
MIRVs break up way before they reach interception range my dude.

>>11543121
Wouldn't this still sandblast the engine bell from the inside?

>>11543153
Depends on bell design. NASA/SpaceX won't do it out of thin air. They'll be rigorously testing their design before mission.

>>11543128
What the fuck Japan?

>>11542829
It's not that VASIMR needs lots of power, it's that in order to achieve any improvement over chemical rockets in terms of actual flight time its power supply needs to be magically light per kilowatt it produces.

>>11543121
More like
>melted beads strike the surface
>Melted beads stick to the dust on the ground
>melted beads covered in dust are no longer sticky and get blown away along with the dust and other fine particles

This idea is stupid and won't work unless the surface is already so firm and free from dust that they could just land there anyway.

>>11543121
Just drop a fucking nuke, or here's a radical idea, just land on some exposed rock wow so hard.

>>11543223
>Just drop a fucking nuke
Wouldn't work, because a nuke can only glass a surface if it's set off in atmosphere. The ambient pressure keeps the super-hot gasses contained in a dusty fireball that radiates enough heat to melt sand and fuse it. In vacuum the fireball expand at several thousand kilometers per second and never stops, so the heat absorbed by the surface is actually very little.

>>11543121
Musk's solution is just beefier landing legs.

>>11543235
Wouldn't that kick up a shit ton of harmful moon dust?

>>11543235
How does redundancy even work? Even if you have one engine out, you still get asymmetric thrust.

>>11543241
Depends on how low Starship is when it cuts off its engines I guess.

This whole moon dust thing is bullshit, surely there is some rocky outcrops you can fucking land on.

>>11543257
What about take-off?

>>11543244
Beefier RCS then to correct for that.

>>11543241
Harmful to what? If you actually had anything substantial to be harmed that means you already had the opportunity to clear an LZ.

>>11543121
But....that won't work. They'd be better off just landing some RC vehicles and people on Earth can play with remote Tonka Toys to build a landing pad.

>>11543263
Use a single Raptor at lowest throttle to make Starship 'jump' and when it reaches the right altitude for safe exhaust, the other Raptors come online to push it to orbit. I wonder if there's a KSP mod to simulate Munar ejecta.

>>11543263
Bring a fold-out "launch pad" that'll control dust kickup long enough to get clear of the surface

>>11543259
there's no erosion on the moon, anon

>>11543269
harmful to anything in orbit

>>11543244
You fix asymmetric thrust by gimballing

>>11543316
>lemme hang out in lunar orbit without preparing for micrometeor strikes
why would you do this

>>11542859
thank you anon, I laughed

>>11543286
nobody knows how the lunar regolith will behave under different thrust levels, so no
we need better models of that sort of thing before people can put it into KSP

>>11543346
because everything we put in space is tiny and thin

>>11543363
Point is you encounter the same shit whether the source is a lander or just ambient dust. If anything, natural impacts are likely to be faster and thus more destructive.

>>11543316
>>11543346
The secret plan to destroy the Gateway.

>>11543241
>undergrad who has never heard of a vaccum cleaner

>>11543418
Based g*teway remover

>>11543420
vaccum cleaners don't work if space is already a vaccum, retard

>>11542849
Did they ever consider whether the nukes could survive the retard level neutron flux produced by the reactor 5 feet behind them?

>>11541669
Starship doesn't have a heat shield covering an aluminum-frame (low melting point) wing, or an Orange Tank Bad to drop ice on it.

>>11543468
yes

>>11543473
orange tank bad dropped foam, not ice
but yes, if Starship explodes during reentry it's going to be because hypersonic flow did something unexpected and cut through a tile gap or something like that, and SpaceX will fix it and then it'll be fine forever
except that the public is going to freak out for a bit, which should be entertaining

>>11541804
That's for a Florida landing, not a Texas landing. SS isn't likely to land on Florida because they don't want to pay the landing fees.
Move the landing point and it's just going to boom over some cartel fags.

>>11543485
it really depends on the inclination they're coming in from, but Brownsville is going to get woken up all the time

>>11539591
how many simple russian rovers are alive on mars?

>>11543516
lol, Soviets and Mars
also lol, Russians and BEO missions