/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11531121
maybe he is super rich. anyway i am so very not fit and i also dont like water, that i dont mid.

>>11531121
nobody gives a fuck if your a compassionless edgy little faggot shut the fuck up and go fuck yourself

>>11531125
>maybe he is super rich.
Maybe he's a serial killer? There is no guarantee of monetary transaction even if so. You most certainly will not get a single cent just for making a call to 911 due to lack of proximity and lack of rapport.

It's also possible it might be a net benefit for humanity. 1 more job opening, 1 person less to do "environmental damage" if you care about that.

>>11531126
The reason you'getting mad is because back of your mind you think my statement might be true and it hurts you. This is why you can't really objectively argue against it.

>>11531145
stupid narcissistic self-obsessed cunt

>>11531121
>>>/b/824420961

>>11531148
Not a narcissist. Self-obsessed possibly but not in the way you're probably thinking. I value my life over others, just like you probably do too. I just don't care for anyone else's life because it doesn't benefit me.

>>11531154
Thanks famalamalam. I'ma try my logic with them.

>>11531168
>I just don't care for anyone else's life because it doesn't benefit me.

>>11531181
Go back or we make you wish you never came here, last warning.

>>11531143
he woudnt have the power to kill you but if he is rich you maybe still get rewarded.

>>11531181
Apparently some people do. If you didn't care you wouldn't respond. So there is SOME level of caring.

>>11531183

>>11531185

>>11531121
Because one day you may be that person drowning in a lake, and you're gonna hope to god that your only potential savior thinks your life is at least worth a call to 911.

>>11531121
If you truly are an atheist or just think morals are conventions then you have no reason to.
This just reveals that most "redditor" beliefs are just an implicit humanist religion.

Get over yourself. Even if human life has no intrinsic value, it's still not in your self interest to let anyone die needlessly.

>>11531121
>There is no way it'll implicate me legally
found the amerifat

in most countries you would end up in jail

>>11531242
I can hope but I can't expect them to do so. The value of their lives, at least to me, is meaningless and it won't impact me at all.


>>11531423
Just say you can't argue with the concept instead of throwing your insecurities out there.

>>11531471
>Get over yourself.
I think you don't understand. I am a bit of a nihilist than a narcissist. The reason you're getting mad is because human life isn't more valuable than a life of an animal. You know that to be the truth.

>Even if human life has no intrinsic value, it's still not in your self interest to let anyone die needlessly.
I agree it's not in my self interest to let them die but it's also not in my interest to save them. Only reason I might help them is if they appear rich (an object of wealth) or is an attractive women (object of sexuality) but not because they're human. There wouldn't be in my self interest to help them otherwise, so most poor to average or even above average person.

>>11531121
Go back to r/atheism and circlejerk about your fantasies of objective morality (which is fundamentally oxymoronic) while simultaneously being too scared to tell the McDonald's cashier that they put pickles on your McChicken. Stop pretending you'd actually act the way you imply in a real-life scenario and accept that even your mind as a singular entity is still driven by the hard-wired compassionate and empathetic response to a fellow homo sapien in danger, a primal response that allowed our species to survive as a socially-oriented species during our early development and still remains glued into our minds as an artifact of what we once were and an open of what we will remain to he until we find out how to transfer our consciousnesses into a less corporeal medium.

>>11531126
based

>>11531512
That's a lot of ad hominem but zero argument against anything I said.

The closest thing to an argument is:
>your mind as a singular entity is still driven by the hard-wired compassionate and empathetic response
A lot of implication but no. Not really. Let me give you another example, if you handed me the little cutest baby in the world and told me you'll give me 1 million dollars to torture that thing without any legal repercussions. I would certainly do that without a hesitation and I'll easily be able to sleep at night. I don't value human beings more than I value a life of a chicken.

I am sure you would kill a chicken for a million dollars easily and yet you don't thing their lives are worth anything.

You have never been in a life or death situation. This much is obvious. And the fact that you think you would know how you would act is somewhat funny. My favorite part is that you justify your cowardice with your reliance on money.

>>>/his/
Philosophy which i think should be a board for itself, doesnt belong here.

>>11531121
>How can you convince me using logic and reason
What about emotion?

>>11531546
You can try.

>>11531532
>You have never been in a life or death situation.
I have a few times.
>And the fact that you think you would know how you would act is somewhat funny.
Nobody knows how exactly anyone would act in certain extreme situations. This is why it's a hypocritical and is a SHOULD question. Why SHOULD I even lift my finger to help a human life if it doesn't implicate me intro trouble legally. That's more so the question.

>My favorite part is that you justify your cowardice with your reliance on money
You seem pretty triggered. The thing I am trying to convey isn't pay to help. I am trying to say, human life is essentially worthless.

Would you punch someone for 1 million dollars? How about break their legs? How about beat them to the inch of their lives to the point they're just a vegetable? Murder them? If there are no legal processions, I would say yes to all. Now if you say yes to some of them and no to the more extreme ones then justify your position because it seems like you also don't value human life but only when you want it to.

>>11531121
>Ethics
Get out

>>11531583
>Disdain for ethics
You have to be over 18 to post here

>>11531599
>Implying I have disdain
This is a science and math board you fucking smoothbrain. I'm telling OP to pack his shit up and leave. Ethics is important but it is certainly not science or math thus it should get the fuck out.

>>11531577
Don't you want to live in a society where people value each other? You may think you would never end up in his situation. Though you may have children. Or a wife. Or others you personally value. Saving that person means being part of a culture that aids those in need.

>>11531121
Do you mean value as in adopt values other have placed upon it, as in accept others views, or don't bother measuring it at all because it has no impact on your existing or future prospects/pleasures/preferences/positions?

Not science or math

>>11531121
>There is no way it'll implicate me legally as a bystander.
That is false. At least here in Germany there is the charge of "unterlassene Hilfeleistung" which means "not helping someone when you could".

>Why should I even inconvenience myself by lifting a finger to call help?
Because you want to live in a society where people help each other, because at some point YOU will need help.
While it is true that your individual actions might have no effect on you personally, the action of the community of people around you matters and you can not expect to not help people when they need it and be helped if you need it.

Of course if you care purely for your own pleasure, this doesn't apply. But under these circumstance you also can't justify why you shouldn't either be shot or be fed ever increasing amounts of drugs until the day you die without a moment of real consciousness.

>>11531577
>I am trying to say, human life is essentially worthless.
Why shouldn't you be shot? Serious question.

>>11531684
What about those who cannot or don't identify any pleasure or joy or fulfillment from having been born into this existence and die feeling like they were ripped from the void and placed into a flesh prison?

>>11531691
>What about those who cannot or don't identify any pleasure or joy or fulfillment from having been born into this existence and die feeling like they were ripped from the void and placed into a flesh prison?
Have you read my post?
"But under these circumstance you also can't justify why you shouldn't either be shot"

>>11531760
Yes but people in that position place the onus of them being 'raped into existence' onto YOU, because if you are just conjuring them into existence so you have something to argue with or kill later then why begrudge them attempting to flee from you?

>>11531764
>why begrudge them attempting to flee from you?
CAN YOU READ?

I do not begrudge them, I literally said they should be shot, because that is what they want...

>>11531769
BUT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT RIPPED THEM FROM THE VOID AND PUT THEM IN THAT FLESH PRISON BECAUSE IF THEY HAD A CHOICE THEY WOULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE OPTED OUT OR THEY WERE FORCED INTO EXISTENCE BY SOMEONE ELSE AND YOU DON'T SEEM TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY OR CARE ABOUT EITHER OUTCOME SO WHY EVEN HAVE THE FUCKING OBSERVATION?

WHAT THEY WANT IS TO NOT EXIST AND TO NEVER HAVE EXISTED, WHICH ALSO MEANS BEING FREE OF INANE FUCKING PERSPECTIVE AND OPINION ARGUMENTS OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU, FUCKFACE!

>philosophically why should I value human life
>Science & Math
>>>/soc/
>>>/b/
>19 posters
>0 direct answers to OP's question
Your obvious mental issues aside, you should value human life "philosophically" because only humans can be philosophers. Your love of wisdom is pointless without proles working to make your free time possible to be spent on what you want it to be spent on, so even if the drowning man is subhuman, he may be worth saving. You might as well be asking: Is any ant worth saving, for the betterment of the colony? In short, OP is clearly a 76 IQ Redditor convinced that he is hot shit.

>>11531776
>BUT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT RIPPED THEM FROM THE VOID AND PUT THEM IN THAT FLESH PRISON
Not in general. In fact no person has been born because of me.

> AND YOU DON'T SEEM TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY
I do. That is why I offer a solution to their problem.

>WHAT THEY WANT IS TO NOT EXIST AND TO NEVER HAVE EXISTED
I can solve the first, but not the second.
But if non existence is achieved, the pain of having existed is irrelevant anyway, so the greater issue is achieving non existence.

>WHICH ALSO MEANS BEING FREE OF INANE FUCKING PERSPECTIVE AND OPINION ARGUMENTS OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU, FUCKFACE!
Buy a gun and eat a bullet, as I suggested.
That will end your existence.

>>11531779
NO IT WON'T BECAUSE THAT JUST BRINGS ME RIGHT BACK TO THIS MOMENT BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'D LITERALLY HAVE NOBODY TO TALK TO OR PHILOSOPHIZE WITH, DIPSHIT.

>>11531782
>NO IT WON'T
Yes, it will.
How can you even deny that you can die LMAO?

>>11531121
Because you would want the same done for you if you were the one in the lake

>>11531783
BECAUSE I NEVER WANTED TO EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE WHICH IS THE PREDICATE FOR MY ENTIRE EXISTENCE AND THOUGHT PROCESS!

>>11531786
Unironically kys then. Or find a reason to live.

>>11531786
Yes. But if your non existence would be achieved the fact that you ever existed would be totally negated, thus solving that issue too.

>>11531789
Every time I kill myself my memory and reality resets to this moment in time, unbeknownst to anyone but myself because that is my eternal torture. That you ALWAYS have to have someone to talk to or ask a question of.

>>11531790
Only from your perspective of this iteration of question and answer.

>>11531121
>Why should I even inconvenience myself
You? I have no idea. Me? I am the one who has to live with myself afterwards.

>>11531792
>Only from your perspective of this iteration of question and answer.
Also from your perspective, since non existence necessitates a total disconnection from reality.

>Every time I kill myself my memory and reality resets to this moment in time, unbeknownst to anyone but myself because that is my eternal torture.
Surely, then you can blame nobody for beginning your existence...

>>11531795
Non-existence necessitates not being able to interpret or respond to this line of inquiry against my preference to not have any say in the matter whatsoever.

>If I can just always blame nobody then I shoot you and blame nobody, assume control and power over everything with none of the responsibility and negative repercussions returning to this decision set by blaming nobody and rediret all future grievances or requests for repayments to nobody.

>>11531799
Your post seems nonsensical...

>>11531803
Requiring other humans to validate postulates as a philosopher is tautological predicate.

>>11531811
oge

>>11531799
moral arguments have no substance in ontological discussions they are hierarchically subordinate to the question of existence and the implications of an ontological viewpoint dictate the parameters of any moral discourse by de facto, the flow of arguments from morality do not move uphill in any way, you cannot get from ought to is etc etc etc

>>11531818

>>11531121
Being a good person is better than to be a vile motherfucker. And reasons are rather obvious, but I don't want you to pretend being good better. Play your game and see where it leads you.

>>11531792
>Every time I kill myself my memory and reality resets to this moment in time, unbeknownst to anyone but myself because that is my eternal torture. That you ALWAYS have to have someone to talk to or ask a question of.
I'm sorry

It depends on your philosophical framework.

If I have the opportunity to save that person pain, and to save his family the grief of losing him, then my compassion motivates me to save him.

>>11531886
That's okay. Just don't let the next person you give this 'eternal job' to wait an unspecified amount of time.

Change shifts every 3 suicides-of-similarity, that way we limit the amount of entropy we try to force on The One Burdened.

>The Suicide of Similarity does sound like a good movie title though.

Depends on the age of the person in danger

The younger they are, the more suffering their death would cause to living people

If he's 80 years old I let him drown

>>11531920
nevertheless old people suffer just like young people

Read The Fall from Camus.

>>11531925
By means of plugmicification, endrocrytic suffering only serves to progress the eventual transcendence of conscious reality skipping, preventing geriatric suffering hinders this process and you are ontologically responsible for the fall of our relationship with alternate manifested reality chains

>>11531932
nigger

>>11531121
You get someone indebted to you, you shouldn't pass such an opportunity. If you had to endanger your own life however.. Fk that

>>11531497
So assuming the value of a human life isn't more valuable than an animal...would you say lives in general have value?

>>11531143
you are one of those overpopulation faggots? really? i thought you were just edgy but you are actually edgy and retarded.

>>11531530
Then you suffer from empirically diagnosable mental abnormalities that cause you to lack what the other 7 billion of us feel. You are mentally defective and should seek help.

>>11531121
Imagine you take the risk of saving the poor guy who is drowning, just to find later he willingly tried to kill himself. Is his freedom to choose more important than the alleged value of his life? Is he the owner of his life?

In this case, one can argue that free will is a much more essential value. Therefore in the context of a guy who tries to kill himself a bystander is entitled to save him as much as the drowning guy is entitled to bring his life to an end. One can further claim that one decision might contradict someone else's will. Yup, i admit that, but I would retort that it holds only in the case you knew whether the guy tripped and fell by accident or not. Bystanders normally don't know this, so fuck the other guy: if he wanted to kill himself for sure he should have checked those who might spot him - so that this conflicts of wills don't occur.

>>11531981
>would you say lives in general have value?
Other than my own personal desires. No. I value my OWN life and my own personal experience that comes from it. I value people close to me based on transactional needs. If they provide emotional, sexual, monetary or any other needs I benefit from that's what I value from them. Otherwise the inherent value of human beings is nothing.

>>11532516
>you are one of those overpopulation faggots
No. I am using an example to illustrate a point.

How about this example. There are two tribes on an Island competing against resources. Why wouldn't it be the best interest for one of the tribe to just kill the other tribe and take their resources and claim the rest of the island? Let's say they aren't in a war, why wouldn't it be beneficial for just one of the tribes to kill the other in the dead of night with low casualties for the net benefit for the others?

>>11532542
> you to lack what the other 7 billion of us feel.
My world view is pretty consistent on the value of human life or value of life in general, which there is none. Most people don't have consistent views on this and are the product of cognitive dissonance.
The way I value my friends and family is more transactional and the way they make me feel. Let's assume there is a natural disaster in our country. 100's of thousands of people lost their homes and some loved ones. Why should concern myself in this matter if it has no impact on me? They provide me with zero utility and I lose monetary value if I choice to do donate to them or something which is a net loss.

>>11531811

Not necessarily. "Other humans" does not mean "another human". Even for another human, this otherness is meant as a different category to this specific philosopher.

>>11531121
This is something that I've been thinking about a lot. The closest to an answer I can currently think of is just that suffering is bad, and it's bad independently of who is suffering.

The only reason we may think otherwise ("it's their suffering, why should I care") is because consciousness is an inherently "private" experience, so we are almost blind to the inner lives of others and empathy is our only way to get information about "what it is like" to be that other person.

Essentially, the same way our eyes give us visual information, it seems that our capacity for empathy attempts to give us information about the inner lives of others, even though it's almost inherently impossible to actually know "what it is like" to be that other person.

I think empathy forces us into a "view from everywhere", where we are no longer trying to look at the world solely from our perspective (where information is necessarily limited), but trying to take into account the experiences of everyone.

And when we do take into account the mental lives of others, we realize that their suffering and our suffering is equal. So, in just the way that it would be bad if I were drowning, this "view from everywhere" allows me to realize that it's just as bad that this other person is drowning.

Anyway, this is a philosophical problem and doesn't belong on /sci/

>>11532606
because not everything is black and white, normal people have functioning emotions and better mental health than you. all you think of is "net benefit" and how much money you might lose if you help people. basically, you are a megalomaniac and honestly just a dick. its probably why nobody likes you, when you dont manipulate them into liking you of course. i could not even imagine being stuck in your shitty, selfish brain, it must be miserable in there.

>>11532976
Found the empathyfag

>>11533005
alright edgelord, have fun dying alone. i will just keep living my life, completely happy with the people i love.

>>11533091
You do that, sweetheart. I'll be over here living my life, completely happy with the people I love.

>>11531121
Human lives by themselves are worthless. People who contribute something lasting of intellectual value to humanity are worth what they contribute and are expected to contribute through the rest of their lives. Their lives are valuable because they are a prerequisite for those contributions to occur.

>Why should I even inconvenience myself by lifting a finger to call help?
In your example, if it is a run of the mill person, then there is no philosophical reason to help. If it is, say, a mathematician, it is worth trying to save him/her because he/she may leave a lasting contribution.

>>11531121
>Why should I even inconvenience myself by lifting a finger to call help? How can you convince me using logic and reason.

If you’re asking this question this means that you think there is a rational set of rules or a philosophy that an individual can adopt to have an ideal experience of life.

Let’s say, hypothetically, that you are right and being a selfish prick who can’t be fucked to rescue a drowning person is the ideal life philosophy. In that case, all people in the world should adopt the same strategy as you. It’s pretty obvious that such a world wouldn’t be a very nice place to live. So such a life philosophy is not optimal.

>>11532606
>My world view is pretty consistent on the value of human life or value of life in general, which there is none. Most people don't have consistent views on this and are the product of cognitive dissonance.
The way I value my friends and family is more transactional and the way they make me feel. Let's assume there is a natural disaster in our country. 100's of thousands of people lost their homes and some loved ones. Why should concern myself in this matter if it has no impact on me? They provide me with zero utility and I lose monetary value if I choice to do donate to them or something which is a net loss.

You seriously, seriously need help. None of this makes any sense. I'm being completely serious right now; crying out to you over a computer screen as an empathetic person -- Seek Help Immediately.

As somebody who has lost multiple people in my life to suicide, you are on a very dark path right now and you need to step off of it and get help. I am not kidding at all right now.

Go to therapy as soon as social distancing ends. Ignore my advice at your peril.

OP desperately needs to seek mental counselling. We should all stop egging him on. It will only exacerbate his problems. Not trolling at all.

>>11531121
if your drowning or is in danger or what not, would you want help?
if yes then you should help others aswell you fucking faggot.
if no, then your just a cock kindly fuck off then you fucking twat

>>11531497
>The value of their lives, at least to me, is meaningless and it won't impact me at all.
if live is meaningless why don't you go and hang yourself faggot?

>>11531121
If I were in that position i probably wouldn't help a drowning person unless it's someone I know and cared about.

However, if I had to convince you using a philosophical approach, I would say that humans are the only creature that can display consciousness and awareness and that its life should be preserved because of that (roughly speaking).

I don't know if this is philosophical enough for you, but I could dig deeper into my argument if you want.

>>11532606
>my world view is pretty consistent on the value of human life or value of life in general, which there is none

so you're nihilistic?

>>11531126
you're*

>>11531512
evolutionary psychology is false and quite literally does not exist. All the so called "evolutionary behaviors" are socially/culturally formed.

>>11533130
there is no such thing as "intellectual value to humanity"

>>11531121
Depends on where you derive your values from. Say you derive them from economics stand point. Human life create labor which increases productivity and produces greater results. If you're coming from a religious sector, human life's value is derived from the fact that it is a product of God. If from an alien scientist, then human life's value is in studying live subject. If its from a family, then the kinship. If from work, then as colleagues that take the load off of you. If you're a criminal, then value of human life is bargaining chip. Etc

>>11535389
If you can not see how discoveries in mathematics and physics have value, then why are you in /sci/?

>>11531121
Because if we encourage this altruistic behavior in society there is a tiny fraction of a chance that it will save you one day

>>11535378
every psychologist can tell you that this is false. babies from all over the planet can feel empathy regardless of social expectations or culture.

>>11531121
No one's making you do anything. If you're a mentally ill sociopath then that's just what you are. There are plenty of other, better people who will fill that role. You aren't as important as your narcissism makes you think you are.

>>11531121
You'd do it because that would increase the chances of someone else doing the same for you, if you were the one who's drowning.

>>11531121
Judging by your responses and even the thread it self, I can confidently say something went wrong in your brain development and you are lacking the proper empathy level a healthy human should have. That doesn't necessarily make you bad. Since bad and good are usually tricky to define and objectively meaningless. As a human, best you can do is ensure the further propagation of humanity. Its why you exist. Unconscious laws of self replication and complexity out of simplicity lead to you existing. So you just continue that chain. Humans are complex and compared to other animals, they have an extra layer of existence in the world of abstractions. And in this world, your ideas are dangerous for the wellbeing of greater society. So in fact in the end I could argue you and your kind in large numbers pose an unconscious threat to society. Not through planning and intent, but just due to how you think. I don't know what would be the better choice. Letting people of your kind to continue exist and possibly allowing you to harm many more people under the guise of rationality and logic, or exterminating you to prevent the harm on other people. In one case you do not impose your will upon anyone, but allow for potential harm and pain on many others. In the other case you do a calculated "evil" in order to prevent lots of potential harm.
Tricky subject indeed.
But yeah, do the world a favor and get out of your egoic delusions and start following a healthier design. You are born to be a social animal. So be one. Live a healthier existence.

>>11531121
because you'll end up a NEET incel virgin like the great Kazcinzsky otherwise

>>11531121
>Why should I value human life?
I use 'em as spare batteries. :O

>>11531121
it's just more fun that way

>>11531121
ill explain it in soulless easily digestible terms for you
eventually the monkeyherd will throw you out if they realize you dont contribute by keeping monkeys alive
simple as.
not even valuing at the very least the consequence of not valuing life of others is just low functioning sociopathy and will eventually catch up to you.

also if you truly didnt care you wouldnt get philosophical about it like you didnt know its controversial so theres that.
youre just fighting that human spark because you feel like its dragging you down but thats simply genetic and pointless to struggle with

edgy retard