/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11527570
Make sure to exercise every day and eat healthy.

HULLO
https://youtu.be/UdPvFxgBiZk

This diagram comes from a much bigger document btw.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/a_sustained_lunar_presence_nspc_report4220final.pdf

>>11527570
So how will Martian cities be constructed?
Perhapse a swarm of worker drones that build and maintain the central structure of the hive with a central intelligence guiding them to a template construction with a semi/automated workshop to produce living sections and areas with pressurized environments? The intelligence also optimizes power and resource flow to areas most needed with minimal waste or delay.

Also found interesting pdf about an antarctic research base using ISRU and a coordinating logic engine for streamlining energy usage that could well be adapted
http://www.antarcticstation.org/assets/uploads/documents_files/brochure_pea_19_04_2013_web.pdf

>>11527630
>So how will Martian cities be constructed?
Underground or at least with heaps of Martian regolith on it. No really usable windows. Basically, cave life. Probably a lot like Ceres station in The Expanse tv series.

Wasted thread OP

>>11527640
This

>>11527640
KINO

>>11527640
If NASA are going all in on the nostalgia-bait, can we get this next?

This stuff is so cool but I feel so dumb for not understanding it and I desperately want to understand and be a part of it but I have nowhere to begin
How do I into spaceflight science bros

>>11527691
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/

>>11527640
So it's gonna be sideways on the rocket?

>>11527640
DESU that's a better edition. I should've let someone else do it.

>>11527676
KINO

Apparently SN3 is fine but some valves started leaking during the cryo test. Oh well.

>mfw SN3 vs Starhopper in the background

Implying that dark matter/energy are real things. Would we be able to use them to power a spacecraft? Have there been any theories about how we could do such a thing?

>>11527835
>breeder_ship.png

>>11527963
These are just my guesses...

>Dark matter
No. All dark matter really seem to do is just float around invisibly and interact with stuff gravitationally. That property could be used for some gravity applications (such as creating a highly compact gravity source by packing dark matter on something. Since dark matter doesn't interact with anything non-gravitationally then perhaps it could be packed tightly). But I feel that it would be too limited for energy generation.

>Dark energy
Also no. Dark energy seems to be just a property intrinsic to space-time. We don't have any technology that could manipulate space-time, and theoretical technologies I'm aware of just focus on using space-time for non-energy-generating applications.

That's just guessing from the properties of dark matter and energy that's currently known. In the future there could be a newly discovered property that could allow for either/both to be used for energy generation. But speculating about it now is pretty much just writing fiction.

>valve leak
YIKES

>work on a test article for 2 months
>cant even get it to not leak
the state of texas, y'll

>>11528045
>>11528012
screenshots or shut the fuck up

>>11528046
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1245902999798419456

>Some valves leaked at cryo temp. Fixing & will retest soon.

IMPENDING EXPLOSION NOW GET IN HERE

https://spacenews.com/space-development-agency-to-seek-bids-for-its-first-constellation/

>2 or more companies will be selected to build the space force satellite constellation
who wants to bet that OneWeb will be one of the companies?

I've recently been fascinated with the obdurate, autistic lines of the Shuttle's service structure. Was any other support structure ever so autistic? It was made to load cargo into the bay, I get that part, but Jesus.

I see a lot of talk about going to the moon or attempting to get rich (some decade) through the use of asteroid mining.

So let's talk about space economics.

On the subject of asteroidal mining and ISRU manufacturing: Never sell shit back to Earth if someone else living in space will gladly pay a much higher price. A bucket of dirt in orbit is roughly worth a bucket of silver back on Earth.

On the subject of exchange: If someone living in space can perform a task that has value to someone on Earth, they can charge slightly less than the cost of performing the same task through a dedicated launch. Turn gravity into a financial tarrif to fund the launch of any additional product or service from Earth that can't be immediately addressed by your own manufacturing capability.

On the subject of any pressurized habitable volume: This is land. People live in it. Some people get stupidly rich by owning or trading it. Stop wanking to pictures of space colonies and start thinking about being the real estate robber baron you've always dreamed you can be.

Your thoughts /sci/?

>>11528067
Something like this?

>>11528007
>In the future there could be a newly discovered property that could allow for either/both to be used for energy generation
What about Axions?

>>11528073
Hey, neat but less autistic because lateral symmetry, up-from-under ( I assume), cathedral-like lines. Recent SLS stuff?

>>11528067
The Space Shuttle architecture in general was autistic
>Okay so we have the largest "fire and forget" SRBs ever made in history
>Strapped onto a massive as fuck hydrogen tank
>Can't stick the shuttle on top, so we stick it onto the side
>Angle the engines such that the massive moments perfectly counterbalance and you ride your way into orbit.

Then

>Rudder in the shadow of the Shuttle during reentry, contributing nothing but dead weight
>Drift the shuttle across state borders to bleed off speed
>Requires high angle of attack to even glide
>Absolute trash lift/drag ratio, requiring pilots with balls of steel to maneuver to land
>Only get one shot, or else you die

The Shuttle was cursed in terms of its engineering.

>>11528098
>Recent SLS stuff?
Yeah, it's inside the VAB.

>>11528105
Why did it pitch "back" at that psychologically uncomfortable angle of ten degrees or so during launch? Center of mass/distribution of engines/all of the above/other?

>>11528071
poopoo peepee

>>11528111
They fired the main engines first to see whether everything was okay, before lighting the SRBs and fully committing to launch. The result is the Shuttle pitches over a bit because of the imbalance.

https://youtu.be/xmLeGBIj6kw

>>11528111
It pitched back so that the net thrust vector would be pointed mostly up. Otherwise it would power-slide off the pad at an angle. Atlas 411 also does this pitch kick maneuver.

cryo test is really going

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw5bYl8v3nY

Holyshit, it did it again

F SN3

CMON BABY HOLD TOGETHER!

OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN HALLOWED BE THY NAME THY KINDOM COME THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD AND FORGIVE US OUR TRESSPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESSPASS AGAINST US. AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION AND DELIVER US FROM EVIL AMEN

>>11528167
Fake news

how's SN4 looking? it was just a couple of rings last week, right?

>>11528208
>SN4
Star Nigger 4?

Will they fly it if it works out? Or do they mount all the flight control, rcs etc

>>11528222
They said static fire and a short hop. Next version should do the BIG hop.

>>11527630
>>11527630
Should read the Mars Trilogy anon. A few hundred pages in and you realize it's basically a roadmap for colonization interspersed with some random human dialogue.

Anyone else agree with me that "red planet" meme hamstrung public interest in mars?

I never bothered to google the modern pictures we have of the surface until a few years ago, and I was taken with how tan and blue-ish grey it is. Also the white balance is actually normal and the whole planet does not, in fact, look like someone sprayed tang in your eyes.

Sky is grey as fuck, but people in seattle and chicago so who cares

>>11528252
I like it. Many people disagree.

>>11528181

check'd for answered prayer

Rip SN3

SN3 exploded, oh boy

>literally wake up, check tests going fine
>5 minutes later
>boom

Back to the scrapyard.

>>11528300
More like imploded.
Shit sucks though.

>>11528307
Yeah, that shit crumpled up and imploded like a beer can.

FUCK I WANT OFF THIS PLANET

>>11528299
These things are popping like anal beads

So, continue trying to get production and prototyping in parallel or just bullet proof one design so it can fly?

SO HOW ABOUT THAT SN4

>>11528313
How not to build an orbital class rocket tank.

>>11528316
So how about it's time to get to back to the fucking drawing board?

Starship is canceled.

Elon has had really bad luck lately

Now SN4 is supposed to do high altitude with star hoppers' exercise data instead of sn1 and sn3? If it doesn't blow up too?

i can't believe the coronavirus got SN3
rip you sodacan

It seemed like they lost pressure in the bottom tank and the fully fueled upper tank splashed it.

Frozen valve on the bottom dropped the pressure too much?

This is like the space shuttle, except it never even reached an orbital prototype.

So, which serial number is finally going to fly? SN6?

>>11528333
If they can ever get one to fly, my guess is SN7 or 8

It didn't even have a cool explosion like SN1, it just collapsed inwards.

>>11528333
SN6 would imply two more consecutive pressurization failures and that's a bit much I think. We haven't even began crashing them with real booms and those will be a thing to see.

>>11528329
How does this make any sense? This thing is supposed to have payload on top and it crumbles without any fuel?

>>11527676
Bring helvetica font back to space flight dammit

>>11528344
Payload alone won't crumble it but fueled upper tank surely will as we saw. Rockets just like beer cans are structurally strong only when pressurized. Some notable cases can't hold themselves up let alone payload without pressure.

You're up SN4

>>11528352
Depending on the exact cause they pinpoint it might get the sn2 treatment.

>>11527691
What do you like about spaceflight? The rockets? The history? The missions? I suggest scott manley on youtube

>>11528071
Asteroid mining is ameme
You find a rich deposit on the moon and mine that for the next 40 years

If they absolutely fucking insist on this material, I guess it's time to start doubling up on the width of the material. Cut down on the amount of welds and thus halve the weak points.
Watching these fucking beer cans pop and crumple is getting old now.

>>11528352
Kek

>>11528352
As the other anon said SN4 will probably just be a test article.

>>11528071
I’m taking a space mining class rn. Asteroid mining is a farce (probably will be profitable in the future, but no time soon). Your best bet is to mine a planet for things like fuel or raw resources. Commercial mining on the moon will be profitable IF we can commercialize space to a large degree

>>11528358
Terrible idea. They want operational vehicle not proof-of-concept battleship prototype. The latter would work but it will be useless - the production problems we are seeing will simply be moved into the future.

>>11528362
Clearly SpaceX won't be the ones responsible for commercializing space.

>>11528363
I'm not talking about thicker plating. I'm talking about wider rolls.

>>11528364
Doubt. We barely have commercialization of low earth orbit as of right now. I’m def not against the artemis program, but in a perfect world we would see the large scale commercialization of low earth orbit before we began returning to the moon / mars

https://youtu.be/imkdz63agHY

>>11528372
Honestly I think Elon Musk was far too ambitious with his times. 1 million people on Mars by 2050, even by 2100 is far too early. Maybe by the 2200s, but not anytime in the near or mid future.

>>11528371
Ah. Still, I'm not sure wider rolls will help as we haven't seen weld problems outside of bulkheads and the thrust structure thing.

>>11527721
>all these unnecessary people wandering about on the launchpad
>warning light flashing red
Nedelin approves.
Those were different times.

>>11528378
Yes, Appropriations Committee Chairman Senator Shelby sir. There's minimal chance americans could set foot on Mars by 2400 without immediate large infusion of federal funds into the appropriate entities and strong regulations put in place to prevent disruptions.

>>11528394
The cost of a mars program is minimum 200 billion dollars!

>>11528383
Welds are always weaker than an intact piece of steel. This is a non-arguable fact. You can look at any of the crumple videos and see that they always start crumpling at the welds first.
Whether there's much to gain there or not is up for debate.
But if you double the width of the roll, you've halved the amount of welds and thus halved the amount of weak points, so that all adds up. But does it add enough?

Gotta remember, if they start adding more strutting to strengthen shit, weight goes up, so delta-v goes down.

video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFXQ5SRCy74

>>11528378
That was just marketing talk for the investors. There's literally nothing that can make anyone colonize a barren rock, removing themselves from the civilization, and no amount of those multiplanetary species talks is going to change that. It will only change if Mars would be as accessible for large cargo as the South Pole (at the very least), then a small permanent manned scientific laboratory with crew rotation can be built. Until that, only flag-planting missions are possible. Starship is not remotely easy enough, even in the best imagined concepts.

FUCK! I hope SLS explodes on launch pad. Otherwise it will be a smug launch beyond compare.

>>11528414
It's possible if you compare it to canada. Just promise something. Opportunity wouldn't be a bad thing.

>>11528414
>colonize a barren rock
that’s the problem. There’s no political incentive to fund / try to beat someone else there... other than “muh civilization might be in jeopardy”. Besides the science for geologists and test pilots- what’s the incentive for going there besides proving a point?

>>11527630
Most likely underground for cheap radiation protection.

>>11527637
There might be a few windows *somewhere* but they’d be comparatively very costly and reinforced, because unlike on Earth the window has to seal off the interior of the hab from the very low pressures outside.

>>11528105
Why couldn’t they stick the shuttle on top?

>>11528325
Weak bait

>>11528439
See SN3

>>11528441
It wasn't bait

>>11528414
>There's literally nothing that can make anyone colonize a barren rock, removing themselves from the civilization

What???
Fly me there and I’ll be happy to do it.

>>11528419
They‘ll have made 8 more Starship prototypes before SLS even gets close to launching. Hell, SLS isn‘t even going forward with testing right now.

>>11528443
Okay, troll. Whatever you say.

>>11528448
I'm being serious. At the very least, the current design of starship will need some radical changes.

>>11528444
I think plenty of people want to do it, but funding it is the problem. Even at its best, a “self-sustaining” mars colony would still be a jamestown that would rely on billions of dollars worth of materials and transportation from earth

>>11528444
That's exactly why you won't fly there.

>>11528430
>>11528433
Realistically speaking, how do you scale a permanent population on Mars from 0 to, say, 100? Imagine it happen the Musk way: just drop 100 people on the surface with the equipment to do... something? That's a recipe for a disaster. Nobody is ready for that kind of permanent isolation, and they'll realize that once the novelty is gone. It's just not going to happen. Instead, the polar station approach would be much better. Small crews of engineers and scientists - about a couple dozens, maybe more - rotate every launch window or so. People make some experiments/observations, test some ideas, build/maintain something, and go back to Earth. New people come in. With time, there will be some experienced people who are willing and ready to stay permanently in the base, to dedicate their entire life to it. And only then it can be scaled up slowly. That way it happens on polar stations, they are just not important enough to scale up beyone several dozens people.

Now the problem, all that time will be spent in complete uncertainty with just one company backing it up. Companies come and go all the time, no matter the reality distortion field around their leaders. Instead, there should be multiple companies and/or governments backing it, and multiple nations sending their people doing science and engineering, AND to mark their presence on another planetary body. There should be the lowest common denominator to incentivize the permanent habitation, and not just rotating crews, and not just the hype, it should be something that cannot just go away. The wider and more fluke-proof it is, the better. An international lab made by a cooperation of multiple businesses and governments is the only practical way.

>>11528357
underrated

>>11528453
Yes, it's becoming pretty fucking obvious that some drastic design changes are in order which is why the first thing that came to my mind was the wider rolls if they absolutely insist on using the same material and going down the same road.
The shit they're doing right now is destination crumpletown.

>>11528461
Agreed, see my response right above you
>>11528459

>a gas tank in a metal tube
>cant even get that right
we're going to be at this for a long time

>>11528461
>An international lab made by a cooperation of multiple businesses and governments is the only practical way

A recipe for total disaster and you must be incredibly naive or underage to think otherwise.

Steel is unproven dangerous material.

Shift must be immediately made to carbon fiber that will work out perfectly.

>>11528480
Yeah because ISS and polar stations were disasters, commercial space stations backed by a single company were much more successful. Oh wait...

>>11528485
Seems my guess was right.

>>11528480
You seem to be easily triggered by "government" and didn't focus on the point of his post. Alright, what's your mature and experienced alternative?

>>11528461
>Nobody is ready for that kind of permanent isolation
Just give these people access to the internet and start with autists that are living in near-permanent isolation already. The isolation argument is completely retarded when the obvious solution to it is to just not isolate the colonists. Sure, some new internet protocols and hardware will need to be set up to handle multi-minute lag, but it's a technical problem.
>Antarctica
Treaties are actively banning people from setting up shit there, in addition conditions are arguably worse than Mars for colonization as due to the polar cycle solar energy is out of the question. Nuclear would be the only way to economically power a major settlement, and that's just getting there in terms of safety, portability and civilian access.
>Economics
Only real reason, but depending on how far Starship succeeds in dropping prices, it may only play a role for the first couple of decades. You don't ship raw material to Mars, you ship tools too complex to manufacture on Mars, to find raw material on site. Once enough tools are on Mars to allow for most critical shit to be produced on Mars, and you produce your own water and food, you don't need much to sustain yourself.
>>11528485
>ISS
>not a disaster for space expansion
Keeping the single light on in space isn't a win, if this shit-tier thinking doesn't drop we'll have a ISSv3 at most by the end of the century, and still be completely stuck in LEO. If that isn't a disaster then we have two completely different concepts of what is success in space.

>>11528213
Ah yes, Bowie's B-side

>>11528498
A united earth government

>>11528499
>Just give these people access to the internet and start with autists that are living in near-permanent isolation already.
That's exactly why such people don't fly into space, and
>you must be incredibly naive or underage to think otherwise

>>11528504
Don't make me fucking write lyrics, I swear to god.

>>11528506
With a unified military.

>>11528510
Almost nobody is flying to space, if you didn't notice. Not much of an argument until there's actually some traffic.

>>11528506
Best way to ensure we're never going anywhere would be that, yes.

>>11528313
He didn't pressurize so good

>"We will see what data review says in the morning, but this may have been a test configuration mistake"
from Elon

>lol we erroneously depressurized the LOX tank my bad

>>11528252
First book was good, rest of it kinda eh.

>>11528551
Oops we loaded the top and turned the bottom tank into a vacuum chamber

>>11527835
IS COFFEE GOOD FRO YOU?

>>11528515
I kinda want you to do it now

>>11528607
Nice job not reading that post

>>11528611
I like Bowie and Spiders is one of my favorite albums.

>>11528613
coomer git gone

China quietly recovered a booster recently! (Pay attention to the stripey booster)

>>11528680

Why did they empty the bottom tank before filling the top one? seems like the bottom tank doesnt have the structural integrity to hold the weight of fuel on the top tank when its empty.

>>11528688
Tadah!

>>11528482
This. Just got to sacrifice one goat daily to the COPV gods and you‘ll be fine.

>>11528567
2mm steel is the best steel

>>11528692
>Paint stripes on one new booster
>CHINA NUMBAH WAN WE RECOVER SPENT BOOSTER!
Pull the other one. They found one, I doubt they bothered reusing it.

>>11528398
The government just spent ten times that in a single year on a meme virus.

NSF blowing up with FUDposting again lmao what is it about prototypes failing that makes some of these guys seethe so hard?

>>11528707
Repeated failure with seemingly no progress does put a bit of a damper on peoples moods.

>>11528692
>ZhinZhe, you missed the old man's house. You know he was scheduled for removal due to low social credit score!

>>11528607
no

>>11528707
>t. Estrocuck
How's life, did your gf dumped you for BBC?
Can't sleep at night?
Nintendo switch out of battery?

>>11528437
Windows need to block radiation too so they'll be similar to those used in nuclear facilities and probably have closed shutters like the cupola on the ISS when not in use.

>>11528728
Woah, project harder buddy

>>11528459
There’s no requirement for anything from earth except for Internet. Everything material can be sourced locally

id like to remind the anons of /sfg/ that 4 is spacex's power number. they always have three failures and a success on new things.

>>11528730
>Windows need to block radiation too

Only if they’re facing upwards or something. Put them at some weird downward slant on an inward-curving interior wall, like some kind of futuristic Hobbit home. Wouldn’t give you much light but you could still peek out there and check on the lichen garden

>>11528742
>>11528730
Mars radiation is a huge meme. The real fuck you bad part is the UV which is a joke its so easy to stop. There are heavy galactic rays but even earth's atmosphere isn't really stopping those. A bit of regolith on top, windows with a hydrogen/water layer sandwiched between two panes would be totally sufficient.

Still a tunnel man myself tho, infinitely expandable, zero radiation, pressurised spaces from day one with very little isru required. Yes please.

>>11528757
Human shit farms when?

>>11528757
Radiation is still a problem though. you can't hand wave that away. At best, windows will be dog-legged tubes that have a mirror at the bends so the light/image can bounce to you on the inside without any radiation bouncing with it. No water or other shielding needed since the mirror side would just be hitting more regolith below it.

>>11528739
I could believe it. This is the first failure that wasn't simply a rupture, so things are coming along. Anyway, anyone thinking SpaceX won't do what they say because they keep blowing up tin cans much not have been fully cognizant when they were trying to get landing right.

>>11528757
It's not a meme. 11mSv/yr is not a joke and pretty much guarantees cancer, unless 100% of your astronauts is from Talesh Mahalleh.

>>11528734
Don't worry, my white pregnant wife just blew me. Shit was so cash.

>>11528778
Majority of that is from UV m8.

>>11528771
Gross and no soul

>>11528778
Imagine not being genetically enhanced to not get cancer

>>11528728
Why are Americans obsessed with penis size?
>>11528771
The living quarters can be shielded enough to make it negligible. Secure areas inside water tanks for solar storms which are known in advance anyway.
For all the risks involved this is hardly a big one.
A basic magnetic dipole loop at L1 could deflect a huge amount of radiation also if someone was willing enough to build one.

>>11528757
>Mars radiation is a huge meme.

>>11528787
No, 11mSv/yr is what you get inside, with reasonable protection. It's not a lot actually, but it is if you're exposed to this for the lifetime.

>>11528799
Yeah, if you were to sit naked on the martian surface for a year straight you would receive that dose. You will never be exposed to the UV since you will be in a suit or a hab so you can slice that figure massively to start with.

Stainless steel aka tincan material is not suitable for aerospace or even just aero.

Spacex either have to pay up and use proper materials like titanium aluminum or carbon fibre or just stop.

The video with its glaring buckling and series of weld failures obviously shows why the wrong materials can lead to disasters.

>>11528818
It's irradiated wasteland and nobody is going to live there and your memes and hopes change nothing.

>>11528357
>Yeah, yeah, yeah
>Uh, yeah don't get it twisted
>This space shit, is theirs
>Motherfucker, it's not a fucking grant
>Fuck what you heard
>It's what you hearing
>It's what you hearing (listen)
>It's what you hearing (listen)
>It's what you hearing (listen)
>
>SpaceX gon' give it to ya
>Fuck waitin' for NASA get it on their own
>SpaceX gon' deliver to ya
>Knock knock, open up the stream, it's real
>With the non-stop, pop pop of stainless steel
>
>Go hard getting busy with it
>But they got such a rushed build
>that they'll make the oldspace wonder if >they really did it
>Damn right and they'll do it again
>'Cause they are right so they gots to win

>Launching sats for the militry
>But no matter how many sats they launch up there
>they reject oldspace industry

>ULA never wanted nothing
>But high life's savings, BITCH!, and that's on a light day

>They staying down, down
>Like the control said, "HOLD!"
>But won't be the one ending down on this bolder
>Bitch please!
>If the only thing senat did was try to delay
>Stay out their way, Richard Shelby

>First they gonna weld, then they gonna stack
>Then they let it pop, go let it go
>SpaceX gon' give it to ya
>They gon' give it to ya
>SpaceX gon' give it to ya
>They gon' give it to ya

>>11528827
Seethe

>>11528822
>looks at the particular piece of engineering
>concludes the material is wrong
/sfg/ in a nutshell

>>11528822
>Steel don’t work for aerospace

But anon, Centaur is stainless steel and it’s tried and true

>>11528827
>reeeeeeee pay me Boeing

Reminder the 'shitty welds' literally held while the lower tank was collapsing.

>>11528834
So, what gives Starship structural integrity?

>>11528828
is it a nintendo gamepad?

>>11528842
What gives Centaur structural integrity? Do you realize Centaur is also just a big steel can?

>>11528842
>under load - thin stainless steel tanks under pressure
>under no load - thin stainless steel tanks

>>11528849
Fiberglass honeycomb structural layer separating it. Insulates as well since the Centaur doesn't use sub-cooled LOX.

>>11528857
Yeah it uses LH2 at fucking 20 kelvin, you dumbass.

>>11528857
I'm not sure what you're at. Are you claiming the problem was in the material rather than the pressure of the lower tank?

>>11528862
Yes I'm well aware that it uses LH2 and is quite a different beast. I'm not the one you originally responded to by the way.
But the Centaur is not "just a big steel can".

>>11528865
I'm not claiming jack shit. Stop reading shit that isn't there.

>>11528842
Ever make a balloon animal? Ever try to do it without air in the balloons?

>>11528869
Then stop giving irrelevant examples in a conversation about the viability of materials otherwise you'll make yourself look like you do now.

>>11528886
>Somebody asks "what gives Centaur structural integrity"
>answer the question
>SO YOU'RE CLAIMING SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO WHAT YOU JUST POSTED THAT I JUST PULLED OUT OF MY ASS?
Jesus fuck, get over yourself.

they wanted to use the parachutes, experts facepalmed, they tried them nonetheless
that didn't work, they switched to VTVL
they wanted to use cold gas thrusters, experts facepalmed (literally, Musk has been nearly laughed out of the room), they tried it nonetheless
that didn't work, they added grid fins

it's business as usual, the concepts and renderings are beautiful until the reality kick in with all the dirty details and complexity

good thing they stuck with conservative parameter window with merlins, and developed raptors in relative secrecy

wait till they try to return it from orbit, relying just on the good ballistic coefficient, without TPS
I'm totally sure it won't go wrong at all

>>11528849
Centaur has to be pressurised at all times, without internal pressure it has no structural integrity at all, it will implode.

>>11528894
>stop disagreeing with my priests ;-;

>>11528891
The conversation started with the stainless steel shitposter and I won't be making any summary because I believe you are capable of scrolling up and following the last 10 posts or so.

Centaur is pressure stabilized.

>>11528376
how did you get this footage from Boca Chica so quickly

>>11528439
ran out of room in the VAB

>>11528894
> man makes bet that rocketry is hard to do
so brave

>>11528906
may I ask what happened to that 1 hour turnaround time? to flight costs as low as the fuel costs? to launchpad-less launching and stack assembly with a crane?
starship is going to be very different from the concept

nothing exists until it actually flies

see, I invented a law of nature, you can name it after me, Anonymous

>>11528938
>starship is going to be very different from the concept
we accept this and any compromises on the way. Even if it's 1/100th of the ship it's promised to be, it's still orders of magnitude better than anything else out there.

>>11528333

>>11528348
Futura

>>11528692
That'll buff right out.

>>11528894
>wait till they try to return it from orbit, relying just on the good ballistic coefficient, without TPS
Concepts switched from traditional heat shield to droplets to tufroc but never was the concept "return from orbit without TPS". Everything else is wrong as well.

>>11529006
supposedly the plan is to positively press the flap seals so there won't be any plasma ingress, which sounds like it might work

>>11528376
>>11528413
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I

With the Shuttle, NASA could only get years between catastrophic accidents, Starship will bring that down to hours.

>>11529052
Prove it.

>>11529052
I'm looking forwards to it
as long as there aren't any astronauts onboad lol

>>11528499
>Just give these people access to the >>11528736
>There’s no requirement for anything from earth except for Internet
internet doesn't work so good when you have a 6000000ms ping time

current theory of what caused it to collapse:
https://youtu.be/VBJr5p8BHTk
wow, Cirno is strong

>>11528499
>Just give these people access to the internet
>>11528736
>There’s no requirement for anything from earth except for Internet
internet doesn't work so good when you have a 6000000ms ping time

>>11529073
You can still beam data back and forth relatively easily. Not like people would be playing Counterstrike together

>>11528799
>clear increased risk of cancer

Nah, we do not actually know what 500 mSv per year chronic exposure does to a person. For all we know any cancer increase could be negligible.

>>11529078
>internet doesn't work so good when you have a 6000000ms ping time
the lag is bad, but it can be engineered around. A browser for a Mars terminal just needs to have a big cache and a few predictive caching methods that grab data preemptively. Bandwidth isn't a problem so just constantly stream up a ton of data downloading the hyperlink web of any current page and the browsing experience is fine.

>>11529103
Can’t wait for Lunar shitposters

>>11528799
>180 day transit

It will take ~120 days, we only use half a year for unmanned missions where radiation is not a factor.

>1 year on Mars

This is with surface habitat only. Put a few meters of soil on top of it and radiation reduces almost to Earthlike levels.

>>11529110
60 days out, I haven't seen any numbers for the return trip

>>11529120
80-150 days one way depending on synod, average 115 days

>>11529120
A 60 day transit would require massive amounts of Delta V you could only get from an NTR etc. Also, you have to kill off a decent amount of it when you get to Mars.

>>11529137
>Also, you have to kill off a decent amount of it when you get to Mars.

Aero capture

>>11528876
>Imploying it will always be pressurized
Absolute state of thincan design fags

>>11528461
>muh polar stations
the reason there are only scientific outposts in antartica are because of the antartic treaty which forbids civilian settlement. Plus, mars is completely different to earth, we're talking about completely pushing the boundaries of civilisation, 1 million people is literally 0.013 percent of the human population and you bet your ass we can find 10 times that many people absolutely desperate to go.

>>11529143
it will always be pressurized

>>11529149
>>11529143
>>11528876

Starship is stable even when unpressurized. It is not a baloon like Centaur.

However, it will still buckle if top tank is full while bottom tank is empty.

>>11529155
it is stable when empty and unpressed

How is starship meant to hold earth moving vehicles?? state of these muh empty bottom tank fags, he hired silo builders and this is what you get, old space wins again

>>11527570
Silos, nice, British invention btw.

>>11529182
the difference between newspace and oldspace is that oldspace spent billions to build giant hangars and warehouses to hide all their failures

>>11529187
The difference is that NewSpace iterates. They will trash a dozen prototypes until they find a design that works. OldSpace tries to do everything perfectly at once, which results in less failures but also much less progress in the end.

Test early, test often.

>>11529187
No. Oldspace just crunches numbers for 10 years before they start building anything.

>>11529182
Trolling is a rule violation.

>>11529201
>No. Oldspace just crunches numbers for 10 years before they start building anything.

Yes, they waste time and slow progress to a snails pace, if any occurs at all.

>>11529202

I just want to know how starship will hold earth moving equipment, if it cant hold some liquid under its own weight? i did add the last bit as a bit of humour but i wasn't trolling.

>>11529209
>if it cant hold some liquid under its own weight?
that's not what's happening

>>11529209
That liquid in a full tank weigths multiple hundreds of tons, while payload weights only 100 tons.

>>11528252
One of the first space books I read. Enjoyable

>>11529209
>How is Starship supposed to hold a hundred tons of payload pressurized if it can’t hold hundreds of tons unpressurized

Gee I don’t know

>it's the year 2200
>every two months a giant metal tube is blown up in boca chica
>nobody knows how or why this tradition started or the meaning behind "SN"

>>11529209
The entire nose section up past the tankage of a Cargo Starship will be a dedicated cargo bay with a maximum payload of 100 tons. Let's assume you want the biggest possible bucket excavator for Mars, it will need some modification to operate correctly, like a replacement of the internal combustion engine with probably some form of electrical motor, an airlock and environment sealed cab, some radiation shielding, etc. The heaviest excavator class sits in the 100,000-200,000lb range, or about 60-100 tons. Lets just assume for the sake of argument that it will be ten tons heavier ontop due to the necessary modifications, and assume that it isn't cut down to be lighter because you'll want it to remain rugged and durable. If you're packing it onto a cargo Starship that means it will easily fit within the 100 ton limitation, some form of unloading crane will also be necessary to allow it to be lowered from the Starship to the landing site in pieces, I assume this will take up a few more tons but not enough to make it impossible to do.

This is assuming you want to carry a size large excavator, you might only run into weight limitations if you wanted to hoist something like a CAT-390F which is nearly 100 tons all on it's own. You could significantly modify any equipment for Martian operation by simply cutting out large chunks of structural material though, since gravity will only be 38-40-ish% of Earth normal you only really strictly need about half the structural strength to accomplish the same goals. So say you can cut 30% of the weight off that CAT by making cutouts wherever possible, and you switch over to an electrical motor with only half the horsepower of the original engine, you could maybe turn a 100 ton vehicle into a 60-70 ton vehicle which will have identical or even superior performance on Mars. Also well within a Cargo Starship's lifting capacity.

>>11529262
This, but It's a tradition done in New Boca Chica, Amazonis Planitia.

>>11529273
Wouldn’t surprise me if Muskrat named some tiny Martian village Boca Chica

>>11529273
Based

>>11529264
thanks for the rundown! Hopefully they sort the gremlins out.

>>11529264
In addition to this let's examine a bit the actual cost of getting our Mars excavator to it's destination. Memelon has proposed a final launch cost of 2 million per Starship, however he's always been exceedingly optimistic, so I'll assume it will cost ten times as much, 20 million per launch. The excavator itself unmodified costs about half a million dollars, we'll double that and assume it costs a full million after being prepared for Mars operation. So the Cargoship actually carrying the vehicle will run up $21M, and if I'm not mistaken it takes four more Starships to completely top it off so it's ready for TLI or TMI, call it $101M worth of launches. For comparison SLS sits at an approximated $2Bn per launch, meaning that for every SLS that flies, you could send 19 modified CAT 390's to Mars, or, if Elon's extremely optimistic launch cost estimate is closer to the real number, 190+.

>>11529314
How hard would it be to start making dozers and other vehicles locally?

>>11529333
Much harder than just shipping them over, you'd need to established factories with very large pressurized volumes of work space, ship out the kind of machinery to create a novel assembly line that operates in one-third G, several actually since different kinds of industrial vehicles need different parts and thus different manufacturing processes, you'd also need to establish operations to mine iron, copper, zinc, small quantities of gold, silica for glass and plastic, etc, etc and then other factories to refine all of those materials into usable bulk material, you'd need computer and electrical component factories to turn out complex electronics for circuit boards, electrical motors for vehicles this size will need robust power control units and those are high end work as well.

It's hard to overestimate just how difficult it is to establish a new industrial base on Mars, it's taken us more than a hundred years to reach the amount and complexity of industrialization we have here on Earth, and we don't have to environmentally seal and radiation harden every structure we make.

>>11529333
very hard. The kind of infrastructure needed to create the engines and computer parts may never be fully replicated on another planet.

>>11529333
Avatar got this right, you'd have to be shipping at least the electronics and circuit boards from Earth for years. Probably batteries too. The metal structure shouldn't be too hard.

So other Starship explosion on launch pad again, when will Elon realize that low-skilled low-wage workers mexican doesn't work?.

>>11528357
>spacex gon give it to ya

>>11529273
Fuck, I want traditions based around experimental rocketry
>Son, it will be soon your 13th birthday, to e accepted as an adult, you'll need to launch a liquid-fueled rocket. It's not a problem if it explodes, but if you hurt someone including yourself, you'll bring great shame to our family

>>11529209
Rockets don't use earth moving equipment as their reaction mass, sweetie.

>>11529209
Needs more roadheaders for Mars cave colony building and mining.

>all the mines that are made on Mars will eventually become colony spaces.

>>11529209
Well, with the lower tank drained of liquid and presumably with a pressure relief valve letting in normal air what you're actually going to get is one tank filled with a super cold high pressure liquid and the other filled with normal air which due to a lack of insulation between bulkheads is rapidly being cryocooled. This will cause the near-empty tank to experience a rapid pressure drop akin to the inside being filled with vacuum, at this point the pressure of Earth's atmosphere will begin to squeeze the outsides of the tank, and at something around 14lbs/in2 you'll have what must be many tens or even hundreds of tons of pressure working against the outside of the tank. This happens to much more robust things like fuel cars on trains relatively often too when fuel is drained too rapidly out of them. It means the SN3 either needs more or larger vacuum relief valves or bulkheads will have to be separated to prevent the cryogenic tanks from effecting each-other's pressure if one or the other is drained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz95_VvTxZM

>>11529264
>needs a pressurized cabin
>can't use an internal combustion engine
>needs to fit efficiently in Starship cargo space
>needs less structural support due to less gravity
At that point they might as well design their own construction vehicles.
If only they had a vehicle manufacturing company...

>>11529262
Hay guise kan I play to?

>>11529346
Do you really need pressurized workspaces? Just walk around in suits.

>>11529424
I assume modification of existing vehicles because in the short term it's easier than designing your own, after all industrial and earth-moving vehicles are already highly optimized for their roles and it will take any new company significant time to re-learn all the lessons of design necessary to build a good earth mover. If you want to expedite the formation of a Mars colony it will be better to work with what you already have on hand as much as possible, lest you get caught in the Oldspace trap of spending years or even decades building something entirely new, autistically optimized for space while not considering cost, speed, and manufacturing efficiency.

>>11529424
Electric Tesla bulldozer when?

>>11529424
do they need a pressurised cabin if they are wearing a space suit,

>>11529264
>>11529424
>pressurized cabin

All of this shit will be semi-autonomous remote controlled equipment, no cabin needed.

>>11528777
>Trips
SN4's gonna fly.

>>11529433
Suits are awkward and clumsy, even the minimal EVA suits, I wouldn't want to hang around heavy factory machinery while wearing one. Also almost all factory machines are built to work in a pressurized environment, they'd need a lot of modification concerning contacting surfaces and lubrication to operate safely in a near or complete vacuum, which will consume a lot of time. As hard as it would be to dig out a several-hundred meter trench on Mars, then build a pressurized structure inside it, then bury that structure and get it ready for habitation, it would probably be even more costly, time consuming, and difficult to build an entire new generation of factory machines optimized for near-vacuum operation. You could just drop the factory pressure to like one tenth of an atmosphere and have your workers wear respirators if you really want to save on energy for environment control, but I think ideally even if it's mostly automated a Mars factory will still occasionally need human oversight, so it will to some degree need to be human habitable.

Derinkuyu, Cappadocia, Turkey (pic)
Shanghai Tunnels, Portland, USA
Edinburgh Vaults, Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Dixia Cheng, Beijing, China
Wieliczka Salt Mine, Krakow, Poland
Coober Pedy, Far North, Southern Australia
RÉSO, Montreal, Canada
Setenil de las Bodegas, Spain
Pilsen Historical Underground, Czech Republic
Tunnels of Moose Jaw, Moose Jaw, Canada
Greenbrier Bunker, West Virginia, USA
Catacombs, Paris, France
City Market Catacombs, Indiana, USA
Old Sacramento Underground, California, USA
Seattle Underground City, Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington, USA
Underground Salt Museum, Kansas, USA
Butte Underground City, Montana, USA
Mega Zips, Kentucky, USA

So, what cool Martian underground cities will there be? Imagine being a Martian and digging your own city out of the Martian soil.

>>11529424
Electric motors for hydraulics, lots of heat sinks to cool equipment that sees lots of friction, probably some liquid cooling loops, etc. The main problem I see is the cooling and lubrication during initial digging. Moving loose stuff will be easy, but excavators that much first break through unbroken ground will need cooling. They need that already on Earth, but on Mars the atmosphere is so thin that they won't cool off nearly as quickly. Any liquid you use will be precious and keep internally for cooling. It is all doable, but sounds like a whole new field of fun engineering challenges.

The equipment may have places for crew, but they will probably be unmanned. I don't know how much redundancy and safety they will have but each piece of heavy equipment may have a place pressurized for people and supplies in case of emergency. You wouldn't want some ultra smarts out there trying to fix something only to have their own gear fuck up and they die from something simple when they could either hop in and be safe or tether their life support to something.

It will be interesting. I wonder how many of us now will still be alive during that time.

/coffee posting

>>11529052
Shuttle
>has casualties
Starship
>no casualties
The trick is to simply fail in every way possible BEFORE making the final design.

>>11529448
compression suits with synthetic muscles are the future
robotics are honestly just so inefficient at the moment, giving a human greater range of motion would get things built on Mars 1000x faster than any remotely operated or autonomous robot.

>>11529359
He already did, you can see white people working. Now he needs to learn that women don't do so great either.

>>11528390
what's this?

>>11529453
>the suit is made out of memory metal
god, I've waited for actual cool scifi uses for memory metal for so long. Between this and the Mars rover wheels I'm glad it's finally being used for cool shit.

>>11529430
SLS is a ribbed fruit can.
Starship is a beer can.

>>11529461
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_catastrophe

>>11529348
>engines
Mate. You better not be thinking of diesel engines right now.

>>11529442
I wouldn't want to trust my colony exclusively to remote controlled vehicles, sometimes vehicles need on-site maintenance, sometimes being on a site in person lets you see and examine things that you can't with just a camera. Even if a Martian heavy machinery driver just plugs their suit into a life support system mounted to the vehicle, there should be some semblance of a cabin with human controls.
>>11529450
I didn't even think about cooling, but yeah I think you'd probably want some significant radiator fins, carbon fiber would actually have some valuable use in this arena, a study done by NASA found that with current technology a combination of inconel heat pipes and carbon fiber fins is quite good for radiators, currently the ISS uses ammonia for their coolant since it's denser and has higher thermal capacitance compared to water or glycol. Luckily a lot of industrial vehicles have large flat spaces where you could easily mount a large radiator panel.
>>11529453
Have they finally worked out how to get that memory titanium thread working properly? I'd heard they were experimenting with it, but nothing conclusive since that.

>>11529468
no, if it was a compression engine they COULD build it on Mars.

>>11529444
Double Triple check!

>>11528399
Welds are actually stronger in pretty much every case. However, the heat affected zone immediately around the weld is often weakened. Planishing (effectively small-scale cold rolling) can be used to restore the strength of the heat affected zone.

>>11529461
Soviets at their finest.

>>11528439
The point of shuttle was that it could carry the expensive liquid fuel engines to space and back for reuse. Of course this didn't end up saving any money, but whatever. Fly it for 30 years I guess.

Methalox internal combustion engines for use on Mars?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_vehicle

>>11528433
The chance to be the first mover and gain a permanent advantage over all other civilizations on Earth forever. Imagine how salty the western world would be if chine bug people colonized the Moon and used it to rapidly expand out to dominating the entire solar system.

>>11529471
>Have they finally worked out how to get that memory titanium thread working properly?
I don't see any updates since like 2013, so safe to say they probably haven't

>>11528482
Atlas worked fine for a long time

>>11529415
>>11529450
Contrary to Earth you would probably still need an airtight sealer on the walls of underground Mars colony.

>>11529500
Marscrete perhaps?

>>11528708
>seemingly no progress
Different failure mode every time, envelope is being pushed, improvements are being made.

>>11529468
Here's the inside of a now outdated Tesla motor, mechanically simpler than an internal combustion engine but from an electronics standpoint much more complicated. These aren't the kind of units you can just bash out anywhere.
>>11529472
Maybe I'm thinking of a different compression engine here, but so far as I know Compression-Ignition engines DO still require oxygen to operate, they simply operate with a fuel element that has lower autoignition temperatures, at a higher pressure, with greater thermal efficiency.

>>11528757
The UV thing is true.
Earth's atmosphere blocks most cosmic rays AND most solar charged particles (the magnetic field deflects some, and actually funnels extra down onto the poles, notice standing at the poles doesn't kill you from dose).
You don't even need super thick windows, all you need is to extend a thick shelf of shielding out over the window so that the sky is blocked out. No visible sky, no radiation. You probably want multi-pane windows anyway, for additional strength as well as redundancy in case one pane is broken for whatever reason.

>>11529505
Hence seemingly. To the average person it's nothing "ha ha tank goes poof".

>>11529529
* nothing but.

>>11528799
1 year on Mars should have next to zero dose associated. It's too easy to shield from radiation with unlimited available mass to justify taking the naked dose.
Even if you took that 887 mSv dose, it wouldn't increase your chances of getting cancer more than smoking cigarettes daily.

>>11528822
Centaur, Atlas, and MiG-25 were/are all successful and all steel

Enjoying Zubrin's book so far.

>>11528857
>Fiberglass honeycomb structural layer separating it
Wrong
>Insulates as well since the Centaur doesn't use sub-cooled LOX.
Right, but stupid, because centaur uses liquid hydrogen at temperatures much lower than the FREEZING point of oxygen you dumb fuck

>>11528848
I see some n64 controllers and a PS4 controller.

>>11529182
>he hired silo builders

Really ironic that SN3 failed in a literal water tower configuration

>>11528757
>The real fuck you bad part is the UV which is a joke its so easy to stop. There are heavy galactic rays but even earth's atmosphere isn't really stopping those. A bit of regolith on top, windows with a hydrogen/water layer sandwiched between two panes would be totally sufficient.

Wrong. UV is a non-issue that can be stopped with any non-transparent material. On the other hand, cosmic rays require several tons per square meter of shielding. On Earth this is provided by our atmosphere, on Mars it will have to be done by piling several meters of dirt on top of the habitat.

>>11528778
>11mSv/yr is not a joke and pretty much guarantees cancer

Bullshit, anything below 100 mSv/year is likely safe indefinitely. People live in some areas higher than 11 on Earth.

>>11529453
It's been years and I've only ever seen the mock-up of that thing and no test articles

It's surely patented too. It'll just sit in a pocket forever and never materialize

>>11529466
>Before seeking refuge, the camera operator remotely activated automatic cameras set around the launching pad that filmed the explosion in detail.

based

>>11529645
I found a 2019 interview with someone on the project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEaX2DAjol8
>it seems that it's technical feasible. We're still at the research and development phase, we don't have a flight system, but technically it's feasible. So we do a lot of work in the materials, what materials we need to pressurize someone, what's the patterning we need—that's what our patents are in, the patterning.

What the fuck SpaceX and Elon are doing? Just bring the lumberjack back.

>>11529696
elon is too busy with PR disasters to think clearly

>>11529020
It's one of the plans, not THE plan.

>>11529074
>aluminum
replicate with steel can pls

>>11529501
>>11529500
Spraycrete then truckbed liner type of linings. The military does that type of thing for their underground stuff. On Mars, the nice thing will be there's no need for the ass load of fluid dynamics hoops you need to jump through that you do on Earth just for water drainage. Though, implementing those things would help to future proof the structures should for any reason there be significant water in the far future (high doubt.)

>>11529712
Mars will have giant oceans by 2700

>>11529712
>Spraycrete
*Shotcrete

>>11529677
Boeing should pick her up

>>11529182
>How is starship meant to hold earth moving vehicles??
Flat packed for assembly in situ, also even a larger earthmover doesn't weight nearly as much as one of the tanks filled with LN2 (which weighs hundreds of tons).

>>11529723
imagine working on something for nearly a decade and the only thing you have to say is "it seems technically feasible"

>>11529729
Sounds perfect for Boing!

>>11529349
This, you can design some pretty simple chassis and frames that can be stamped out of hot steel and welded by hand in jigs, then outfit them with hydraulics and electronics sent from Earth, reducing the shipped mass fraction by 90%.

>>11529359
>explosion
Nigga it didn't even pop, it just fell over. Stop degrading the word explosion.

>>11529415
Can roadheaders get through basalt? Most of Mars is basalt, I've only really seen roadheaders used for stripping out coal seams and salt deposits, real soft shit.

>>11529755
Fuck it, I say ship a good heavy duty drill and a few tens of tons of some easy to use UV tolerant highly stable putty explosive. Drill a line of bores in the shape of the habitat, mold an explosive to the proper size, blast large sections of trench all at once.

>>11529453
>not designing a skintight suit with pneumatic-driven kevlar 'muscles' that allow you to exert over 10 kN of force easily as long as you're connected to an air line
>future astronauts not looking like the dude from crysis in his nanosuit
not gonna make it
space mechanics need to be able to lift bulldozers out of the field and into pressurized warehouses to be worked on and repaired.

>blew up again

OH NONONONONONO

>>11527605
>artemis
This is a waste of time and resources if Mars is the goal.

>>11529264
You don’t need tracks on mars because there is no liquid water to make the ground soft

>>11528696
Based.

>>11529904
Mars isn’t the main goal

>>11529925
You need it for traction in the reduced gravity, especially for anything like a bulldozer/skidsteer

>>11529755
It really depends on how stable everything is. Are there good looks at cliff faces and other such places where we can determine the cohesiveness of the ground?

Also, picking a colony/base location will be determined by the resources nearby. So, are basalt areas good for resources? If not then what is around areas that have good resources? Like would we be drilling into Olympus Mons or the area around Homestake. The former is all basalt flows while the latter has sedimentary bedrock.

>>11529768
I can see that being somewhat useful. Though, it'd be slow as shit with current tech unless you want to feed it batteries like a tic-tac addict.

>>11530010
>traction in the reduced gravity
This is really going to be a problem, mass stays the same but you are like on a slippery surface

>>11530010
You're probably better off with big ass wide wheels due to terrain being rather fucking blasted with impacts and whatnot over the years.

>>11529752
Was the top tank even properly pressurized anymore? I would’ve expected a proper bang if that were the case. I mean the time before that the top bulkhead got fired off like a cannon.

>>11530305
The fuck is that lol

>>11530311
Jupiter render, when what became SLS was a minimally modified shuttle tank without reengineering everything.

>>11530305
Even KSP lets you reskin your parts to match one another, why this ugly mishmash of b/w stripes and expendable-orange?

>>11530319
Pretty anemic looking second stage there
There is no way nasa would allow something like that to fly anyways

>>11530339
>Pretty anemic looking second stage there

It doesn’t have one, this Jupiter variant was for LEO.

>>11530305
>>11530319
>>11530374
>Reuses Shuttle components more directly than SLS
>Every aspect was chosen for rapid and cheap development
>Aimed to shorten NASA's capability gap after the Shuttle
>Was predicted to be safer than the Ares V (which then was developed into the SLS)
Yeah, no wonder Congress and NASA shot it down. Everything about it would run counter to NASA's money farm plans.

>>11529052
kek

HULLO time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJslqGkb9So

>>11530393
>thinking Ares V is SLS
>thinking Jupiter is anything but SLS Block 0

>>11528313
>Rudimentary creatures of hydrogen and steel. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.

>>11530399
>bottom tank depressurized
How does this happen?

>>11530407
On a technical level, all three rockets are very closely related, but there are differences based on their goals and how they were/going-to-be managed. Ares and SLS are pretty much the same management and goals-wise because both were and are currently being managed slowly with the goal of providing jobs to key states. Jupiter was different with the idea of it being managed much more expediently and with space flight as the main goal.

>>11528313
>Rudimentary creations of methane and steel. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.

>>11530421
Is that the slow lounge system

>>11529729
>>11529677
Elom needs to buy out the patent from these grant chasing cunts and put 20 good men onto it. He's going to have a hell of a time putting a colony together with shit tier modern suits, dexterity is absolutely key imo.

>>11530442
No that's the shareholder lunch system

>>11530319
I thought the problem was that the tank simply couldn‘t hold any sort of upper stage.

>>11530416
Well either by accident through a design flaw or by accident because nobody told Enrique in which order to empty the tanks.

>>11530338
Leaving the external tank unpainted was supposed to save weight. I dimly recall from the space shuttle era that it saved a few hundred pounds.

New Scott Manley vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJslqGkb9So

>>11530338
The other Anon is correct, paint gets to be surprisingly heavy when you have to coat such large objects in it.

>>11530601
Imagine some anodized colors instead.

>>11530122
What part of
>umbilical
Didn't you understand? The suit doesn't have pumps or motors, it's just valves and air lines to expanding pneumatic "muscles" running off of air from a tank inside a habitat or vehicle or whatever.

>>11530163
Probably was pressurized, but had no gas volume to store energy. As soon as it popped, pressure was gone.

>>11530520
That design had no upper stage. The core stage simply flew into orbit with a payload on top.

>>11530810
See: Atlas V

>>11530892
>umbilical
Shit tech man. If you are going to go full fantasy you may as well add some Arc Reactors as the power source.

>>11530920
>"let's make this aluminum look like copper"
Meh.

>>11529359
>launch pad
???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhBUmxEOfpc
NASA vid on artemis progress

>>11530916
>That design had no upper stage. The core stage simply flew into orbit with a payload on top.

Wouldn’t that make it an SSTO???

>>11531042
More like 1.5 stage to orbit, the side boosters (the 1/2 stage) basically act as the first stage and the core is the sustainer stage which carries the payload all the way to orbit. Loads of rockets use this configuration, from the original Atlas to SLS. The newest member of the 1.5 stage club is the CZ-5B (pic-related).

>>11531064

>>11531040
How will these wear any less than the first version? Looks like the same shit's gonna happen to these wheels too.

>>11531071
>How will these wear any less than the first version?

They’ve literally been redesigned to reduce wear and tear.

>“My wheels are slightly narrower and thicker-skinned than those on @MarsCuriosity. My treads have a gentle S-curve rather than a sharp chevron. Where they meet the wheel is a gentler angle instead of 90º, all in an effort to reduce stress on the wheel.”

>>11531064
So you can get away with delivering payloads to orbit using only one big tank and side-boosters? Interesting.

>>11529755
Basalt is often highly fractured by cooling cracks.

>>11531077

>>11531085
I wonder how thin atmosphere plays with that cooling and fracturing and how thin it was back at that time.

>>11531071
The issue was the material not the design. Imagine unironically making them out of aluminium, based diversity hires.